Comments on: Yankees blow

Yankees blow

found missing — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 15:48:55 -0800

The Yankees actually do suck (lately). Finding it difficult to win on the field, they try other means. This doesn't look good for people who think the Yankees aren't the personification of evil.

By: languagehat

languagehat — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 16:09:19 -0800

If by "suck" you mean "are the personification of evil," yes, the Yankees suck and always have. If, however, you mean "do not play good baseball," you are living in some other universe. They have a winning percentage of .618, second only to the Cardinals' (inexplicable) .676. Their recent 22-0 loss, as satisfying as it may have been to some of us, is simply one of those random things that happen on the way to another World Series. I could make a political comparison to their trying to beat another team without actually playing them, but That Would Be Wrong.

By: dig_duggler

dig_duggler — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 16:25:58 -0800

Oh, but they are falling. Brown is out and the team is imploding. I don't think even Torre can steer this ship back and this reeeeeks of desperation. If they lose the pennant to the Red Sox (laugh all you want, I don't believe in curses) it will be one of those historic things we talk about for decades. They had an insurmountable lead.

By: languagehat

languagehat — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 16:56:14 -0800

*laughs*

By: jalexei

jalexei — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 17:00:06 -0800

Oh, but they are falling. Brown is out and the team is imploding. I don't think even Torre can steer this ship back and this reeeeeks of desperation. Desperation? In 2000, they lost 15 of 17 to end the regular season. Who won the series that year? If they lose the pennant to the Red Sox (laugh all you want, I don't believe in curses) it will be one of those historic things we talk about for decades. They had an insurmountable lead. No, the '78 Sox had an insurmountable lead. While the Yankees have been a bit wobbly of late, the Sox have been red hot. I expect a cooling off out west. As to the request for a forfeit - certainly not a "classy" move (nor one I'd support), but the rules are the rules. I admire the cheek.

By: Kwantsar

Kwantsar — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 17:02:43 -0800

troutfishing-- while the Yankees don't "suck", I would argue that they don't play good baseball. They're outperforming their pythagorean (or expected) record by eleven games. This is the mark of a team that is lucky, not good.

By: dig_duggler

dig_duggler — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 17:27:59 -0800

Desperation? In 2000, they lost 15 of 17 to end the regular season. Who won the series that year? And what's the last series they won? I forget : ) I'm not a Red Sox fan so maybe this will have some weight. This year is different. They have bartered their farm sysem for too many years. Giambi has some disease that sportswriters claim you can't even discuss. They have no lefty (which in the postseason is [statistically] next to impossible to win a World Series w/out). They're #1 guy is Vasquez, whom I love and have on my fantasy team, but, c'mon. His E.R.A over the last month is horrendous. No, the '78 Sox had an insurmountable lead. While the Yankees have been a bit wobbly of late, the Sox have been red hot. I expect a cooling off out west. Touche. Not as insurmountable, but given that they signed arguably the best player in baseball in the offseason, it will be a big story if they drop the ball here (and all the bigger for who they will drop the ball to). And I know, everyone will say they are the Yankees. But to me they are the Yankees of the 80's and early 90's now. They are going to lose and Torre is going to get fired. Cashman too (who is pretty good himself). I mean Loaiza? Loaiza? That's your big move that's going to fix the rotation? (I'm an Expos fan, so you guys can mock me all day long)

By: clevershark

clevershark — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 17:28:19 -0800

It all comes down to how they'll deal with their current situation of not having a full complement of starters. They can deal Brown out and replace him for what's left of the season, but come the series they're shorthanded because of a prima donna who went ahead and stupidly broke his own hand two days after he could have been replaced for the postseason. If the Yankees can deal with this "little problem" they ought to inspect Joe Torre's a** for horseshoes.

By: dig_duggler

dig_duggler — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 17:29:10 -0800

Their not They're. Feel like a moron now.

By: crank

crank — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 17:38:37 -0800

It's not mentioned in the article, but I'm pretty sure the commissioner's office told Tampa Bay to fly up to NY BEFORE the hurricane hit to avoid this very situation. The double header was scheduled to make up for a game cancelled due to rain earlier this season, so now they have to make up the make-up game since the forfeit was not granted. The Red Sox are not as good as they've been playing the past few weeks. The Yankees are not as bad as they've been playing these past few weeks.

By: ParisParamus

ParisParamus — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 17:42:24 -0800

When the Yankees lose, I feel better, and if they lose big (seasonally), I celebrate. It's not the team so much as Yankee fans. What makes someone care about a team that usually wins, and has unlimited funds to do so is a mystery. It's the stuff bullies are made of; perhaps foreigners thing of the United States the way I think of the Yankees?

By: Mayor Curley

Mayor Curley — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 18:28:54 -0800

The Red Sox are not as good as they've been playing the past few weeks. The Yankees are not as bad as they've been playing these past few weeks. Look at it position by position, being sure to give proper weight to starting pitching, and tell me that's an accurate statement. The Sox have a better team on paper. (I realize that "on paper" doesn't mean "in reality.") You realize that Hernandez' claimed age of almost 35 is in Cuban years, right?

By: notsnot

notsnot — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 18:33:35 -0800

PP: You're catching on.

By: ParisParamus

ParisParamus — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 19:51:53 -0800

Catching on? I've been a Mets fan for 39 years, or so. I really think there's some major breakthrough to be made via understanding Yankee fans.

By: herc

herc — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 20:44:53 -0800

Yanks. No starting pitching. No chance seeing a Series trophy this season. A petition for a forfeit may be the most impressive thing they win this year.

By: Chanther

Chanther — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 20:48:04 -0800

As a Cardinals fan, I look down on the rest of you and laugh. (until the Cardinals are eliminated in the first round of the postseason, just like always)

By: crank

crank — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 21:04:54 -0800

Look at it position by position, being sure to give proper weight to starting pitching, and tell me that's an accurate statement. All that matters is wins and losses. Boston is on a hot streak right now, and the Yankees have been slumping. Boston was playing .500 ball for a month earlier this summer. How do you reconcile that with what shows up on paper? Are the real Red Sox a .500 team, the .750 team they've been since August, or somewhere in between? You realize that Hernandez' claimed age of almost 35 is in Cuban years, right? He's 7-0 in 11 starts with a 2.62 era. The Yankees are 10-1 in those games he starts. His age doesn't seem to bother him too much. Anyway, I still think the Cardinals will take it all....

By: emmling

emmling — Tue, 07 Sep 2004 01:12:40 -0800

(I'm an Expos fan, so you guys can mock me all day long) I've got you beat, dig_duggler - I'm an Expos fan and a Mariners fan. Talk about never going anywhere....

By: sic

sic — Tue, 07 Sep 2004 05:51:33 -0800

Most people hate losing, even by proxy, which is why teams like the Yankees, Real Madrid in Spain and Manchester United in England have such universal appeal (and, conversely, are the objects of such universal hatred). They have all the money and can consistently buy the best talent, if not create the best teams. Axiom: money buys championships. Although not always successful (see the Detroit Pistons championship and the utter failure that was Real Madrid's last season*) it is at least as successful and much easier (if within the club's means) as slowly and carefully piecing together a fragile winning combination, you know, catching lightning in a bottle. This is why people that have no real tie to the cities and, in the case of football, countries, that these clubs represent become lifelong fans: they like winning. It's the easiest thing in the world, like forgetting your problems by popping a pill or satisfying your sexual needs by downloading gigabytes of free porn on the internet. Easy. I daresay that this also translates into politics, people who have no political reason to vote for a party (because they don't represent their interests) vote for them anyway because they have all the money and are likely to win. It's a quick and (apparently) easy way to feel good about themselves. Hmmm. *Of course, to make their fans feel better for the last season, Fiorentino Perez, the mult-millionaire president of the club went out and bought Michael Owen!

By: papercake

papercake — Tue, 07 Sep 2004 06:43:15 -0800

PP: I agree. Rooting for the Yankees is like backing the rich, preppy kid who invariably treated his girlfriend badly in those 80's movies. Unfortunately, I too am a Mariners fan -- which is like rooting for the geeky, clueless kid in those same movies.

By: ParisParamus

ParisParamus — Tue, 07 Sep 2004 06:57:34 -0800

Sic, the thing is, if winning is too easy, where's the satisfaction? Or, is the Yankee's current downturn intended to raise interest in a Yankees post-season?

By: ParisParamus

ParisParamus — Tue, 07 Sep 2004 07:00:24 -0800

I suppose an equally valid question is, why care about a perpetual loser team? But actually, the Mets offer the appearance of being competitive enough that they seem to have a chance. FIRE WILPON NOW.

By: languagehat

languagehat — Tue, 07 Sep 2004 07:44:07 -0800

I've been a Mets fan for 39 years, or so. I really think there's some major breakthrough to be made via understanding Yankee fans. *feels sudden burst of kinship with PP* And yes, Wilpon and the entire Mets management should be fired (if not put up against a wall). They've done their best to ruin the team ever since right after the '86 Series, when they ditched the MVP and continued getting rid of the "difficult" (read: best) players. And this year they started trading young talent for has-beens-to-be as soon as it became clear the Mets weren't going anywhere this year -- after they'd specifically promised not to do that. *seethes*

By: sic

sic — Tue, 07 Sep 2004 08:14:23 -0800

Well, that's kind of the point of my post PP. "Easy" is the favorite adjective of our times. It's been sold to us as the ideal by our consumer driven societies. Easy is better. Would most young people rather get rich working hard all their lives or by winning the lottery? Would you rather get off your ass and switch on the TV or the light or just use the remote control or the "clapper"? But like you say, the problem for Yankee fans and their ilk is that easy never really satisfies, so the next step is to accumulate alot of "easy". Win a world championship with your hired guns? Boring! We need at least a threepeat to be satisfied. But even that never really satisfies. So they demand more. Yankee fans, just like Real Madrid fans, are impatient, even petulant, like children. They constantly need more to try and fill that empty space that appears almost immediately after their "easy" victories and never really goes away. But what would just one championship mean to a Cub fan or a Bosox fan?

By: lazywhinerkid

lazywhinerkid — Wed, 08 Sep 2004 04:17:44 -0800

sic: What would one championship mean? Put it this way: I'm a life-long Red Sox fan (grew up in Mass.) but I live in London now. If they make it into the WS I'll be heading home for a two weeks to watch the games with friends and (hopefully) party like it's 1999. This is not an uncommon feeling...every Sox fan I know who lives away from Boston will go home if and when there's a WS. What would a championship mean? Abso-f*cking-lutely everything.

By: sic

sic — Wed, 08 Sep 2004 05:59:59 -0800

And would just that one championship be enough to keep you warm for the rest of your life? PS: I hope the Sox (both white and red) and the Cubbies get it some day....