For those of you in the 'Anyone but Bush' camp.

September 21, 2004 4:23 PM

Slate translates Kerry to English.A lot of the argument lately is that Kerry doesn't really offer up a concete stand on his viewpoint. This article from William Saletan sums up what he believes Kerry is trying to say based on the speech he gave in New York earlier, and how he really stands in opposition to President Bush. Thoughts?
posted by daHIFI (32 comments total)

while we are on the subject of kerry - the kos shined some light on "kerry's war vote" sometime back - and the lies bush told to get congress to go along with his prewar charade.
posted by specialk420 at 4:28 PM on September 21, 2004

Kerry may be a liar and a weasel, but I don't think he's an idiot. If he doesn't express his views in plain English, then you may want to wonder why.

Maybe he'll explain this at his next press conference, which should be any day now, no?

I mean, after he's done with Dr. Phil and Letterman.

Kerry may have cogent positions, but he's doing a damn poor job in getting the word out. Only so much of the blame for this can fall on a biased media.
posted by Ayn Marx at 4:58 PM on September 21, 2004

What the hell do issues have to do with a presidential election?
posted by eatitlive at 5:05 PM on September 21, 2004

Not much translation needed for that Kerry speech. He finally came out and in a very concrete way stated his view that Bush's handling of Iraq and Afghanistan has been incompetent and laid out a plan for how he would do it differently. Whether you agree with him or not (I do), he can't really be blamed for a lack of directness anymore.
posted by blefr at 5:11 PM on September 21, 2004

I don't know. It sounds like he's hiding something:

"In fighting the war on terrorism, my principles are straightforward. The terrorists are beyond reason. We must destroy them. As president, I will do whatever it takes, as long as it takes, to defeat our enemies. But billions of people around the world yearning for a better life are open to America’s ideals. We must reach them."

posted by eatitlive at 5:15 PM on September 21, 2004

Vote Kerry 2004.

Terms and conditions subject to change without notice. Some restrictions apply.
posted by Mick at 5:18 PM on September 21, 2004

That's more like it.
posted by eatitlive at 5:29 PM on September 21, 2004

Vote Bush 2004.

Nothing will change, no matter how fucked up its proven to be.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 5:42 PM on September 21, 2004

Bush/Cheney 2004: Because you want to know you're getting fucked.
posted by stonerose at 5:44 PM on September 21, 2004

what blefr said. And he was boffo at the Redbook shindig. (according to friends that were there)
posted by amberglow at 5:54 PM on September 21, 2004

Maybe Ayn and Mick could spin the following for us, since they somehow desperately want to tar, all without even trying to back up their shrill silliness. Maybe the two of them could collaborate for us and explain President AWOL's shifting justifications for, oh, say the centerpiece of his "war on terror", invading Iraq. After that, why don't you take a stab at describing how Bush stacks up in the "liar and weasel" category for the following:

From the beginning, George W. Bush has made his own credibility a central issue. On 10/11/00, then-Gov. Bush said: "I think credibility is important.It is going to be important for the president to be credible with Congress, important for the president to be credible with foreign nations." But President Bush's serial flip-flopping raises serious questions about whether Congress and foreign leaders can rely on what he says.

# Bush is against campaign finance reform; then he's for it.
# Bush is against a Homeland Security Department; then he's for it.
# Bush is against a 9/11 commission; then he's for it.
# Bush is against an Iraq WMD investigation; then he's for it.
# Bush is against nation building; then he's for it.
# Bush is against deficits; then he's for them.
# Bush is for free trade; then he's for tariffs on steel; then he's against them again.
# Bush is against the U.S. taking a role in the Israeli Palestinian conflict; then he pushes for a "road map" and a Palestinian State.
# Bush is for states right to decide on gay marriage, then he is for changing the constitution.
# Bush first says he'll provide money for first responders (fire, police, emergency), then he doesn't.
# Bush first says that 'help is on the way' to the military ... then he cuts benefits
# Bush-"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. Bush-"I don't know where he is. I have no idea and I really don't care.
# Bush claims to be in favor of the environment and then secretly starts drilling on Padre Island.
# Bush talks about helping education and increases mandates while cutting funding.
# Bush first says the U.S. won't negotiate with North Korea. Now he will
# Bush goes to Bob Jones University. Then say's he shouldn't have.
# Bush said he would demand a U.N. Security Council vote on whether to sanction military action against Iraq. Later Bush announced he would not call for a vote
# Bush said the "mission accomplished" banner was put up by the sailors. Bush later admits it was his advance team.
# Bush was for fingerprinting and photographing Mexicans who enter the US. Bush after meeting with Pres. Fox, he's against it.

Soon after the Bush administration took office, it promised to uphold the Clinton administration's Roadless Area Conservation Rule, enacted in 2001 to protect some 58.5 million acres of America's last unspoiled National Forests from logging, mining and drilling. But this summer President Bush flip-flopped. The administration's U.S. Forest Service announced it is repealing the rule, which was designed to protect vital sources of clean water and wildlife habitat. Since the year 2000, the timber industry alone has given $25 million to the Bush administration and its Congressional allies.

WASHINGTON, D.C. – The prominence of health insurance industry executives among Bush campaign bundlers suggests that special interests played a part in President Bush’s flip-flop on patients’ rights to sue HMOs, Public Citizen charged today.

In a televised presidential debate on Oct. 17, 2000, candidate Bush said, "If I’m the president … people will be able to take their HMO insurance company to court," adding that while he was governor of Texas, "We’re one of the first states that said you can sue an HMO for denying you proper coverage."

But on Tuesday, the Bush administration argued before the U.S. Supreme Court that the same Texas law touted by candidate Bush is invalid because it is pre-empted by a federal law. This is the opposite of what then-Gov. Bush’s Texas Department of Insurance argued in a lower court in 1997.

The BUSH-CHENEY team likes to say president is "steadfast." And John Kerry is "flip-flopper." But Senator Kerry is bolted to floor compared to Bush. President Bush is no more steadfast than Tony Soprano is faithful.

Bush can't get enough of Chalabi. Chalabi cons Bush's neocons into toppling Saddam; sits behind Laura Bush at State of Union speech; always looks marvelous in custom-made $1,000 suits. US paid him $335,000 a month for "intelligence."

US troops raid Chalabi's house. US soldiers raided Chalabi's home and seized documents and computers. (Hope they didn't wrinkle his suits.) While on US payroll, told Iran that US had cracked code for Iran's secret communications. Time magazine says, "The US's abandonment of Chalabi may prove to be the most head-snapping reversal of all."

Bush called Osama number one priority. "There's an old poster out West that says, `Wanted: Dead or Alive.' . . . The most important thing is to find Osama bin Laden. It's our Number One priority. We will not rest until we have found him." (Sept. 13 and 16, 2001.)

Now Bush doesn't care about him. "I don't know where he is. I have no idea and I really don't care. It's not that important." (March 13, 2002.)


And so on. And so on. Dear Leader Bush. And his supporters. Projection. You could look it up.

But again, what was that about a liar and a weasel? What was that about "terms and conditions subject to change without notice. Some restrictions apply"?

~chuckle~
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 6:25 PM on September 21, 2004

Am I the only one who pretty much understood these to be Kerry's positions from the get-go? Just how (ignorant|misinformed|gullible|blind|in denial) is the American public, anyway?
posted by bashos_frog at 6:30 PM on September 21, 2004

well done, f&m!
posted by quonsar at 6:35 PM on September 21, 2004

Another thread... the cosmic ballet continues.
posted by Krrrlson at 6:38 PM on September 21, 2004

Kerry may be a liar and a weasel, but I don't think he's an idiot. If he doesn't express his views in plain English, then you may want to wonder why.

Actually I think the point made by Saletan is that if people were actually listening to what Kerry is saying, they could actually find out where he stands :-)

It's ridiculous how little coverage Kerry's campaign is getting from the American media as a whole. It's largely attributable to two things -- the press dropping the ball, and the genius of Karl Rove in setting the media's agenda for them. And let's not beat around the bush (so to speak), the man is a genius when it comes to media manipulation. If only he applied his powers for good instead of evil he would be a great man.
posted by clevershark at 7:25 PM on September 21, 2004

Vote Bush 2004.

Don't change horsemen in the middle of an apocalypse.
posted by clevershark at 7:26 PM on September 21, 2004

Has anyone compiled the "23 justifications" Bush has offered for the war yet?
posted by Succa at 7:29 PM on September 21, 2004

Don't change horsemen in the middle of an apocalypse.
posted by clevershark at 9:26 PM CST on September 21

I like that.
posted by Ynoxas at 7:37 PM on September 21, 2004

F & M rules this thread, but I'll cheaply summarize :

Bush sleeps with any convenient position he happens to feel need of at night.

In the morning, he smacks the old positions awake and kicks them, in their underwear, out the door to shiver and weep in the driving November rain.....

....and goes out to have breakfast with Karl Rove.

________________

Bushflip.

Bushflop.

Bushflip.

Bushflop.

Bushlie.

Bushflip.

Bushflop.

Bushflip.

Bushflop.

Bushflip.

Bushflop.

Bushflip.

Bushlie.

Bushflop.

Bushflip.

Bushflop.

Bushflip.

Bushflop.

Bushlie.

Bushflip.

Bushflop.

Bushflip.

Bushflop.

Bushflip.

Bushflop.

Bushflip.

Bushflop.

Bushlie.

Bushflip.

Bushflop.

Bushflip.

Bushflop.

Bushflip.

Bushflop.

Bushflip.

Bushflop.

Bushlie.
posted by troutfishing at 7:42 PM on September 21, 2004

Rove doesn't get sloppy seconds? (and ewww)
posted by amberglow at 7:43 PM on September 21, 2004

Actually I think the point made by Saletan is that if people were actually listening to what Kerry is saying, they could actually find out where he stands :-)

I think the point is that Kerry tends to encircle an answer before deciding to attack it, as opposed to just stating a quick and easy response. The point is not to compliment Kerry for his ability to speak in entire paragraphs but to both help him and make fun of him for his inability to speak in quick and easy five-second soundbytes. kerry's long answers hate our freedom.

Don't change horsemen in the middle of an apocalypse.

Brilliant!

It's ridiculous how little coverage Kerry's campaign is getting from the American media as a whole.

this is true. Kerry explains in full detail a four-step plan for the Iraq situation and then the press reports it with a headline 'kerry rips Bush on Iraq', so then the public collectively yawns and doesn't bother to read it. Instead, the press should do their job and print, 'kerry explains plan for iraq's future', but.... argh. now i'm complaining about the damn media again.
posted by graventy at 7:47 PM on September 21, 2004

graventy - that's my axe too. But, I heard that a seriously pissed off Dan Rather got all Fox-ish on GW Bush tonight on CBS.

The Rovian forged Guard docs ploy has had some unanticipated fallout.

amberglow - maybe, but I chose to paint it as a business relationship built on the practical principle - "don't shit where you eat" (shit elsewhere....like on the truth).

"...kerry's long answers hate our freedom." - to quote David Bowie, "This is no game!"
posted by troutfishing at 9:18 PM on September 21, 2004

The thing that bothers me most about Kerry isn't his changing his mind, but the reasons for his changing his mind. He's an invertebrate.
posted by shoos at 10:51 PM on September 21, 2004

If you say so.
posted by eatitlive at 10:57 PM on September 21, 2004

No, he really is. If I'd died yesterday, he'd still be an invertebrate right this minute.
posted by shoos at 11:00 PM on September 21, 2004

Where?
posted by eatitlive at 11:13 PM on September 21, 2004

that's a good example, shoos: you're making an unsupported statement ("kerry... changing his mind") but diverting rebuttal by appending a meaningless bit of invective ("he's an invertebrate").
posted by hattifattener at 11:54 PM on September 21, 2004

Ok, what I should have typed as the first sentence, to be clear, was "The thing that bothers me most about Kerry isn't that he might often change his mind - I don't know that he changes his mind any more than the average senator does - but it's the reason I suspect he changes his mind when he does change it."
posted by shoos at 12:06 AM on September 22, 2004

The thing I don't like about shoos is that he lacks gential function. If I died tomorrow, he'd still be afflicted with genital dysfunction. Sorry, allow me to rephrase that. My problem with shoos is that I suspect he makes outrageous claims because he has issues with his broken wang.
posted by The God Complex at 12:22 AM on September 22, 2004

It in fact still works, though. I'll invite you over for a look at my wang if you'd like.
posted by shoos at 12:32 AM on September 22, 2004

Southern California. Where are you?
posted by shoos at 12:33 AM on September 22, 2004

well done, f&m!
posted by quonsar at 8:35 PM CST on September 21

I second that, nice bit of work.
posted by kamylyon at 5:12 AM on September 22, 2004