Comments on: Nasty, brutish, and short

Nasty, brutish, and short

adampsyche — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 12:30:53 -0800

How Bush Did. Later for the polls, pundits, and analysis. The five minute .wmv found here sums up the President's performance. Partisan, sliced, edited, and damned ~~scary~~ funny.

By: 327.ca

327.ca — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 12:59:12 -0800

This is infantile. Anyone can be made to look bad with judicious editing. It's far more damning to watch the whole debate and see things in context.

By: deanc

deanc — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 13:03:12 -0800

This is infantile. I, for one, am shocked, shocked to find infantile attacks against presidential candidates. I don't think anyone who wanted to know what really happened during the debates is going to look at these edited clips or things like The Faces of Frustration to keep themselves informed. Rather, those of us who have already seen the debates want to be able to chuckle at the highlights.

By: jmccorm

jmccorm — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 13:05:50 -0800

Actually, its kind of odd, how just by using clips from the President, and no words from Kerry, that they are able to paint a picture so negative. But it seems to go along with the theme that Kerry's best salesman is Bush. People don't love Kerry and much as they dislike Bush. When Bush campaigns for Bush, he campaigns for Kerry at the same time. Damn odd.

By: fenriq

fenriq — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 13:08:11 -0800

Yeah, its easy to make him look awful but its alot more powerful to watch him throughout the debate. It would be just as easy to make Kerry look bad with editing. It doesn't help and it won't help convince any fencesitters unless we want to help them vote Bush for seeing a stupid, childish trick like this.

By: adampsyche

adampsyche — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 13:10:53 -0800

This is infantile. You don't say! I hope I didn't advertise it differently. It would be just as easy to make Kerry look bad with editing. Without a doubt. Rather, those of us who have already seen the debates want to be able to chuckle at the highlights. Precisely. Lighten up, people. It's not meant to be taken seriously.

By: dobbs

dobbs — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 13:20:24 -0800

I didn't mind the file and took it for what it was. However, I think it would be interesting to edit all of each candidates statements together (complete), back to back so there'd be 40 mins of straight bush and 40 of kerry with no interuptions. I don't know why I think that would be interesting but I do.

By: Zurishaddai

Zurishaddai — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 15:55:38 -0800

sums up the President's performance Well, actually, this clip FORGOT POLAND!

By: quonsar

quonsar — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 16:03:16 -0800

It doesn't help and it won't help convince any fencesitters unless we want to help them vote Bush for seeing a stupid, childish trick like this. um, get a sense of humor fuckwit!

By: Busithoth

Busithoth — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 16:08:22 -0800

Splicing this together would qualify as torture to me. I liked this better than the video on the DNC website, though. Bush haters, rejoice!

By: amberglow

amberglow — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 16:42:56 -0800

this is pretty good too (quicktime, blasphemous) : >

By: xammerboy

xammerboy — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 16:48:45 -0800

It would be just as easy to make Kerry look bad with editing. No. No you couldn't. You could not find as many umm, errr, aahh, Saddam, I mean Bin Laden, emmms. I think this video actually captures the big reason behind Bush's loss, his own inarticulateness, pettiness, and whining. This was overly edited, but it was eye-opening for me anyway. This guy does not have the power to think clearly. He should not be our president. He should not be doing the hard, incredibly hard, work, that hard work requires from this hard job of work, especially if he is going to run the White House on a nine to five schedule and spend almost as much time on vacation as working.

By: y2karl

y2karl — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 16:52:30 -0800

Kerry Pulls Ahead of Bush in Newsweek Poll In a two-way contest, the Kerry/Edwards ticket in the Nov. 2 presidential election led by 49 percent against 46 percent for Bush/Cheney, according to 1,013 registered voters polled by Princeton Survey Research Associates International. According to the poll, 61 percent of Americans who watched the first presidential debate on Sept. 30 said Kerry won, 19 percent said Bush won and 16 percent said they tied. The number of debate viewers surveyed was 770. Bush's job approval rating dropped two points from the Sept. 9-10 Newsweek poll to 46 percent -- a 6-point drop since the Republican national convention a month ago. Fifty-seven percent of all poll respondents -- a total of 1,144 adults -- said they were dissatisfied with the way things were going in the United States now. Sixty percent of registered voters said Bush administration policies and diplomatic efforts had led to more anti-Americanism around the world and 51 percent said the administration had not done enough to involve major allies and international organizations in trying to achieve its foreign policy goals, the poll showed.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 16:52:50 -0800

yup, xammerboy, I still can't get over all those "it's hard work" whines from Bush, given that he has been on vacation more than any other modern president.

By: sycophant

sycophant — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 16:53:16 -0800

I've not seen the whole debate, but the bits I have seen, and the impression I get from all over the place, is that it would be almost impossible to do this with Kerry. He didn't misspeak anywhere near as often, nor hesitate. Of course you chould find other meaningless things to edit together for him. As for the idea of editing all the candidates comments together, to get 40 mins of each -- I wonder if you took all bushes ums and ahhhs out, if they'd still be speaking evenly - I get the impression that Kerry probably said more.

By: stavrosthewonderchicken

stavrosthewonderchicken — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 16:54:52 -0800

[this is ~~hard~~ good]

By: digaman

digaman — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 17:33:38 -0800

Hilarious. William Burroughs lives.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 17:48:17 -0800

Anybody responsible for getting people this young killed is a national menace. Dumb people always are. And don't tell me he's not dumb. Yes, he was matched against an absolutely first-rate mind last night. But he could have done a little bit better at covering his helplessness than flusters of college boy anger. --Breslin on the debate

By: jragon

jragon — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 17:52:15 -0800

It would be just as easy to make Kerry look bad with editing. You could make him look bad, yes. But there's no way he'd look this bad. As noted above, this footage may be completely unfair, yet it does cut to the heart of Bush's inability to articulate.

By: Armitage Shanks

Armitage Shanks — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 17:55:01 -0800

People misunderestimate His ability to inarticulate.

By: clevershark

clevershark — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 18:20:31 -0800

Time to change his debate strategery, I say. Use something subliminable next time.

By: caddis

caddis — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 18:32:01 -0800

Amberglow, that Satan video is too funny. That one is scary because it is so true. Bush the born again (who apparently does not go to church - go figure) helps Satan more than he helps the Lord.

By: alumshubby

alumshubby — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 18:33:21 -0800

Bush 2004. Because it's hard work.

By: Civil_Disobedient

Civil_Disobedient — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 18:56:11 -0800

There were so many moments I wish they had used instead of clips of him just standing like a deer in front of a Mack truck. While those "uh... uh... wel, uh..." clips are great fun, there were other points in the debate where I found myself saying, "I just hope no other countries are watching this." For example, several times after Kerry rebutted, Bush would change the rules they already agreed on and say, "can I just add something..." Kerry never did this. Not once. But most hilarious was that just about every time Bush did this, he ended up making himself look worse than if he'd just kept his mouth shut. One time he asked for an additional rebuttal, (which Lehrer granted), and then proceeded to... uh... think... uh... holdonasec... for half his extra time! Of course, when Bush asked for these 30 second extra-time deals, Kerry would get one as well (for fairness). So the President would take 15 of his 30 seconds stammering and figuring out just what he wanted to say, then murmer somethig about "hard work," and give Kerry another 30 seconds to decimate him. Moron! My favorite moment in the debate, by far, was the second time Bush asked for additional time, then said to Kerry, "do you mind?" to which Kerry responded something like, "Sure, that's fine... if you want to just throw out all the restrictions we can do that, too." (I'm getting the wording wrong, but that was the gist). It made it clear that, for however much Kerry obliterated any semblence of intelligence in Bush, he so very much wanted a real debate to truly eviscerate him. Looks like the "rules" were mostly written by the Bush team to protect him from his own stupidity. Lotta good they did him.

By: Turtles all the way down

Turtles all the way down — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 19:03:12 -0800

Ambergow: I second caddis. Excellent.

By: Turtles all the way down

Turtles all the way down — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 19:04:07 -0800

Amberglow

By: pyramid termite

pyramid termite — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 20:05:47 -0800

hey, check it out! ... someone found a copy of the notes bush took during the debate!

By: abcde

abcde — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 20:07:25 -0800

Kerry wouldn't be as bad no matter how you edited, because had no "ums" that I can remember, maybe 5 or 10 self-corrections, etc. It gives the appearance that he's reciting whereas Bush is thinking, but the almost total absence of gaffes lended him a sense of clarity in contrast with Bush that he badly needed for obvious reasons.

By: jaronson

jaronson — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 20:26:43 -0800

Speaking of editing Some clips from the RNC...[.mov file via]

By: jpoulos

jpoulos — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 20:36:42 -0800

One thing the video hammered home, which I didn't really noticed during the full debate, is the whining. He sounds like the kid in the back seat, whining about how his sister won't stop touching him.

By: inksyndicate

inksyndicate — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 21:36:42 -0800

By: dhartung

dhartung — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 21:40:02 -0800

You could make Kerry look bad, yes -- he repeated the Tora Bora/outsourcing gag, for instance, instead of throwing in another zinger. Most of his missteps in this debate were ones of omission, however (how I would have loved him to quote Poland's President, after Bush told him he'd, you know, forgotten Poland). You could find those few moments when Kerry's hand strayed to his face (the bane of debate trainers), the moment a drop of sweat seemed to briefly disturb him, and you'd be able to make him look bad -- but not in the same way. Certainly there are those who'll be making Kerry look bad through his words, such as repeatedly invoking the UN (there goes the Idaho electoral vote!). As for Bush, this is really remarkable. I think it's going to provide fodder for years to come for students of conversational disfluency and other conversational indicators, including paralanguage -- the study of utterances such as "um" and pauses themselves, which tell us a lot in a conversation even if they don't actually communicate information directly. In fact, I was most reminded of an exercise heard on NPR and blogged moderately widely where some linguists removed all the words from people's conversation and came up with a voice fingerprint, as it were. Even fluent speakers have utterances and pauses, but there certainly is wide variation in how much of one's speech contains them. inksyndicate: It's tough, you know, watching the casualty reports on TV. (Was this W's price-scanner moment?)

By: Kwantsar

Kwantsar — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 22:04:07 -0800

dhartung-- if you would, please revise the conversational indicators link (I'd like to read it). The obvious correction does not work, either.

By: Armitage Shanks

Armitage Shanks — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 22:34:46 -0800

This link looks correct.

By: Kwantsar

Kwantsar — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 22:50:25 -0800

Thanks, and, duh on me.

By: Satapher

Satapher — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 23:11:33 -0800

i watched the debates too, had the same sour feeling in my stomach as i did watching this collage

By: Espoo2

Espoo2 — Sun, 03 Oct 2004 00:51:50 -0800

that link by jaranson is pretty incredible, if not a bit expected by now.

By: Civil_Disobedient

Civil_Disobedient — Sun, 03 Oct 2004 03:53:27 -0800

jaronson - Amazing. Didn't look like there were any repeats there, either.

By: Busithoth

Busithoth — Sun, 03 Oct 2004 06:40:48 -0800

Here's what I don't get. Did they focus group this "it's hard work" meme and think anyone was going to be convinced? I'm just really surprised that the Bush team hasn't come up with anything more competent sounding for him to say. Or is it his own invention? Is everyone supposed to nod and go, "He's right. It's really tough?" What's tough? The only thing I wished Kerry had said after the 12th "It's hard work!" was something like, "Ever hear of the dictum, 'work smarter, not harder'?" Bush would've rushed him.

By: moonbiter

moonbiter — Sun, 03 Oct 2004 08:55:20 -0800

At least one of my friends in Germany thought the line about Poland being one of the military stalwarts of the Coalition was funny. I'm not sure why ...

By: abcde

abcde — Sun, 03 Oct 2004 09:47:43 -0800

Here's what I don't get. Did they focus group this "it's hard work" meme and think anyone was going to be convinced? I'm just really surprised that the Bush team hasn't come up with anything more competent sounding for him to say. I think the idea is to imply that Kerry has no idea what it's like to actually be president and all he's doing is listing off ideals instead of practicalities.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Sun, 03 Oct 2004 09:51:50 -0800

I betcha Karen Hughes has Bush joke about the "hard work" thing in the next debate, saying something like "debates are really hard work" I taped SNL last night, just watched, and thought they did a pretty good job with it (but not as good as they could have)--the weekend update was hysterical tho.

By: dobbs

dobbs — Sun, 03 Oct 2004 12:50:29 -0800

In a similar vein.

By: dobbs

dobbs — Sun, 03 Oct 2004 12:51:04 -0800

oh, darn. see someone else has already linked it. my bad.

By: adampsyche

adampsyche — Sun, 03 Oct 2004 13:15:00 -0800

GOP convention audio mashed up a bit [self link].

By: dobbs

dobbs — Sun, 03 Oct 2004 13:18:04 -0800

Y'all seen this yet?

By: amberglow

amberglow — Sun, 03 Oct 2004 13:24:06 -0800

adam: truly excellent, and one of the things i dislike most about them. hey, maybe Stern would play it?

By: amberglow

amberglow — Sun, 03 Oct 2004 13:25:56 -0800

dobbs, that should really be a fpp--excellent use of constructivism--beautifully done.

By: Busithoth

Busithoth — Sun, 03 Oct 2004 13:36:06 -0800

dobbs, that was slick as hell. thank you thank you thank you.

By: dobbs

dobbs — Sun, 03 Oct 2004 13:46:48 -0800

I didn't want to take the "why do you hate america?" flack. go ahead and post if if you wish. :)

By: dobbs

dobbs — Sun, 03 Oct 2004 13:53:24 -0800

A little more info here and mirrored here.

By: adampsyche

adampsyche — Sun, 03 Oct 2004 14:00:53 -0800

Why do you hate our freedom? ;)

By: Civil_Disobedient

Civil_Disobedient — Sun, 03 Oct 2004 19:13:53 -0800

Wow. That was beautiful, dobbs. It was like a BBC World News cutscreen, except with a point.

By: goneill

goneill — Sun, 03 Oct 2004 19:56:24 -0800

God, that was really well done.

By: mr.marx

mr.marx — Sun, 03 Oct 2004 20:06:01 -0800

awesome, dobbs. thank you very much!

By: swift

swift — Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:08:35 -0800

Wow to all the links in this thread.