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Round Two in the Town Hall
October 8, 2004 6:09 PM   Subscribe

Bush & Kerry Round Two: Town Hall
It was going to be done. I'm just the one doing it.
posted by fenriq (405 comments total)

 
Well, I'm out. My husband is taking over the household debate-watching duties tonight. I'm still exhausted from the VP debate!
posted by Sidhedevil at 6:11 PM on October 8, 2004


Bush is already looking better than last time.

But so is Kerry.
posted by jmgorman at 6:12 PM on October 8, 2004


Does anyone know if the Libertarian candidate got arrested?
posted by homunculus at 6:14 PM on October 8, 2004


Bush is attacking Kerry, Kerry's talking about what he can do to make things better in this country. That'll be fine.

OOooh, they can talk to each other and move. I like the new format.
posted by fenriq at 6:15 PM on October 8, 2004


Bush started ok last time, too, and then started to fell apart with each attack on his record. We'll see if he wilts and withers this time, too, especially once Kerry gets into the comments by Bremmer and Rumsfeld.
posted by The God Complex at 6:15 PM on October 8, 2004


If he has, we're going in there to get him out with our letters of marque and reprisal. Avast, my mateys! Arrrgh!
posted by Sidhedevil at 6:15 PM on October 8, 2004


wow, this might could turn into a throw-down
posted by jmgorman at 6:16 PM on October 8, 2004


Wow, Kerry is working it well. This could come to blows since there are no podiums.
posted by fenriq at 6:17 PM on October 8, 2004


The new Bush facial fuckup: the chewing jaw spazm!
posted by Peter H at 6:19 PM on October 8, 2004



The new Bush facial fuckup: the chewing jaw spazm!


It looks like he's grinding his teeth. I wonder if he'll manage to reign it in before it becomes a new meme?
posted by The God Complex at 6:20 PM on October 8, 2004


There's a very large man sitting in the front row.
posted by jeremias at 6:21 PM on October 8, 2004


There's a very large man sitting in the front row.

Yup. That's disturbing. I wonder what it means.
posted by 327.ca at 6:23 PM on October 8, 2004


It looks like he's grinding his teeth. I wonder if he'll manage to reign it in before it becomes a new meme?

Yeah!, it's best when he's not talking. You see the lower jaw just flinch quickly to the left, holding back blinks. The shots of him having to listen to Kerry are hilarious. It's a mix of confused and, well, confused.
posted by Peter H at 6:24 PM on October 8, 2004


Its the generals' job to win the war - which the did. It is the president's job to win the peace.

Go Johnny go, go
posted by jmgorman at 6:25 PM on October 8, 2004


At least he's pretending to write things down this time.
posted by fenriq at 6:25 PM on October 8, 2004


When Bush is sitting there "listening" he looks seriously vacant.
posted by doublehelix at 6:26 PM on October 8, 2004


"That answer almost made me want to scowl"
America: sound of crickets. Wow that fucked up didn't it?
posted by Peter H at 6:27 PM on October 8, 2004


Now he's talking about Saddam deceiving inspectors, even though the report showed they had no capabilities. How is that dangerous?

Kerry's line about not developing new types of nuclear devices in the states is exactly the kind of thing I want to hear, but I wonder about Americans? ;P
posted by The God Complex at 6:27 PM on October 8, 2004


There's a very large man sitting in the front row.

No TV here--could we have a picture, please ?
posted by y2karl at 6:28 PM on October 8, 2004


Hesaid Kerry made him almost scowl? ALMOST? Hahahaha!
posted by fenriq at 6:28 PM on October 8, 2004


Internets!
posted by orelius at 6:28 PM on October 8, 2004


So, about those rumors on the internets...
posted by TungstenChef at 6:28 PM on October 8, 2004


Is it just me or is Bush almost screaming? Pleading?

"Rumors on the internets"? OMG...
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 6:28 PM on October 8, 2004


"RUMORS ON THE INTERNETS" !!!!
anyone else hear that? truly ROFLMAO
posted by Peter H at 6:29 PM on October 8, 2004


"Internets"?????
posted by doublehelix at 6:29 PM on October 8, 2004


rumors on the internets

internet - s

um
posted by jmgorman at 6:29 PM on October 8, 2004


Bush- "There's rumors on the Internets"

I don't think he's talking about Internet 2
posted by jeremias at 6:29 PM on October 8, 2004


"There's rumours on the Internets."
posted by keswick at 6:29 PM on October 8, 2004


Holy shit, we all heard it.
posted by Peter H at 6:29 PM on October 8, 2004


I hear there's rumors on the internets...

You mean there's more internets that I've been missing out on?!
posted by pealco at 6:29 PM on October 8, 2004


Where can I get more internets? This one is getting worn out.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 6:30 PM on October 8, 2004


on preview: nevermind!
posted by The God Complex at 6:30 PM on October 8, 2004


maybe he's going to invent a new internet and just hasn't announced it yet!
posted by faithnomore at 6:30 PM on October 8, 2004


No draft for three weeks! Woo Hoo!
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 6:30 PM on October 8, 2004


One internet or many, which is it Mister President?
posted by Peter H at 6:30 PM on October 8, 2004


"Unmanned veehickles..."

Jeezus..
posted by 327.ca at 6:30 PM on October 8, 2004


Stop quoting him on the internets !
posted by elpapacito at 6:31 PM on October 8, 2004


"More fastle?"
posted by keswick at 6:31 PM on October 8, 2004


What the hell is fastle?
posted by fenriq at 6:32 PM on October 8, 2004


Bush is mad!

KERRY FORGOT POLAND!
posted by The God Complex at 6:32 PM on October 8, 2004


Fight!!! Kick his ass Charlie!
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 6:32 PM on October 8, 2004


Wow Bush looks like he's losing control ?
posted by elpapacito at 6:32 PM on October 8, 2004


He takes notes with a sharpie?

---

Holy shit he went psycho!
posted by pealco at 6:32 PM on October 8, 2004


It's nice how Kerry turns right to Bush and talks to him, it's actually kinda smart. I don't think it was expected and it's getting Bush pissed off.
posted by jeremias at 6:32 PM on October 8, 2004


31 minutes in he's telling the moderator to shut up and bitching off Kerry about Tony Blair.
posted by Peter H at 6:32 PM on October 8, 2004


Oh man, Bush nearly lost it... I missed the visuals on the last debate. Would you guys say he's doing better or worse?
posted by keswick at 6:33 PM on October 8, 2004


Anybody want to take bets on how soon Bush starts crying?
posted by fenriq at 6:33 PM on October 8, 2004


Ann loves Kerry ! :D
posted by elpapacito at 6:33 PM on October 8, 2004


i'm going to look up fastles on my internets.
posted by faithnomore at 6:33 PM on October 8, 2004


Bush is sucking, and i don't think the audience in the hall is buying his bs either...he's getting louder and louder and his gestures are very sharp and not at all in control.

He's also repeating the same thing over and over, and not really answering the questions--the repairing our reputation in the world question especially.
posted by amberglow at 6:34 PM on October 8, 2004


Holy shit; just watching this thread... It's like a blow-for-blow snarkfest. I'm kind of enjoying it...
posted by mr_roboto at 6:34 PM on October 8, 2004


Or throws a punch?
posted by fenriq at 6:34 PM on October 8, 2004


Fastles: it's a very common word on some of the other internets.
posted by pealco at 6:34 PM on October 8, 2004


fastle fastle fastle, I made you out of clay....
posted by jmgorman at 6:34 PM on October 8, 2004


Blinky blinky blink.
posted by pealco at 6:35 PM on October 8, 2004


Shrub's starting to blink himself to death I think.
posted by clevershark at 6:35 PM on October 8, 2004


Drinks are on me if Bush takes a swing at Kerry or the moderator!
posted by TungstenChef at 6:35 PM on October 8, 2004


Snark away, Mr_Roboto. Is it snarky if its just reporting basic observations?
posted by fenriq at 6:36 PM on October 8, 2004


What's the advantage of being an incumbent supposed to be again?
posted by jeremias at 6:36 PM on October 8, 2004


Bush's 1000 mile stare.... Is he mentally formatting his resume?
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 6:36 PM on October 8, 2004


Metafilter: theres lost of talking about it on the Internets

Man, this is like watching the birth of the "I've fallen and I can't get up" joke, only with a dab of Andy Kaufman and a little bit of Colonel Klink. We were here then, people. We shared something historic.
posted by Peter H at 6:37 PM on October 8, 2004


and they haven't even gotten to the domestic questions yet.

And Bush keeps going back to Iraq, even when the question doesn't call for it. He's repeating himself way way too much.
posted by amberglow at 6:37 PM on October 8, 2004


This is absolutely hilarious. Why am I thinking Jerry Springer?
posted by Mossy at 6:37 PM on October 8, 2004


Bush either feels sick OR is hypnothizing people by constantly repeating always the same same same same same stuff !
posted by elpapacito at 6:37 PM on October 8, 2004


Do they coordinate their ties?
posted by pealco at 6:38 PM on October 8, 2004


oh, good, W is back to his talking points
posted by jmgorman at 6:39 PM on October 8, 2004


Hell, I'm taking even odds that Bush cancels the last debate because he comes down with the flu.
posted by fenriq at 6:39 PM on October 8, 2004


Mossy - Bush is about to take off his shirt and scream at him like an overweight poverty stricken woman, I just bet.

OOH - CANADA DRUG QUESTION!!!
Bush: Canada is unsafe!!
posted by Peter H at 6:39 PM on October 8, 2004


Is Bush's face frozen in a grimace when he isn't talking or is it just me?
posted by TungstenChef at 6:39 PM on October 8, 2004


We're now into domestic policy.

Canada is a third world dammit! (Joke)
posted by jeremias at 6:39 PM on October 8, 2004


...because the terrorists might have made the pills.
posted by pealco at 6:39 PM on October 8, 2004


Sorry, make that the FU FLU!
posted by fenriq at 6:39 PM on October 8, 2004


I just popped into the TV room where my wife's watching this - I vastly prefer this form of spectatorship here - and had to leave after watching Bush trying furiously to look non-snide while Kerry's talking. Bush looks absolutely wide-eyed psychotic. It made me more afraid than ever.

Ahhhh, my comforting blue Metafilter. Best in all the internets.
posted by soyjoy at 6:39 PM on October 8, 2004


Bush just lost pharmaceutical supports by exposing their abuse of brand and suppression of generics !
posted by elpapacito at 6:40 PM on October 8, 2004


Does anyone have a link to where the freepers are discussing this? I'm curious to see the opposite spin.
posted by TungstenChef at 6:40 PM on October 8, 2004


canadian drugs aren't safe???
bullshit. bullshit. bullshit.
(how's that for repeating?)

seniors are very angry with him--he's not helping himself. And he's coming off as angry.
posted by amberglow at 6:41 PM on October 8, 2004


Flip flip ZING!
posted by TungstenChef at 6:41 PM on October 8, 2004


"Thank you for asking." [i.e., "Fuck you very much."]
posted by 327.ca at 6:41 PM on October 8, 2004


Kerry is even better than last time--calm, collected, in control. Bush is pissed.
posted by amberglow at 6:42 PM on October 8, 2004


Does anyone have a link to where the freepers are discussing this? I'm curious to see the opposite spin.

Yeah, Matt--can we have a split screen next time ?
posted by y2karl at 6:42 PM on October 8, 2004


Bush gets fucking pwned on Medicare and drugs from third world...um...er... Canada.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 6:43 PM on October 8, 2004


It's sick is just like bashing a baby seal
posted by elpapacito at 6:43 PM on October 8, 2004


Oooh, let's go trolling! Nah, just kidding.

Tungsten, try the Command Post. But watch your backside, they can get nasty.
posted by fenriq at 6:43 PM on October 8, 2004


I'm really happy they brought up Canadian medicine purchases, truthfully. That was the best question so far, in a "matters to undecideds" kind of thing. Good hostile fuckup by Bush in the reply, too.

(and Kerry just fucked up Bush on the Medicare point. "actually mister president ...")
posted by Peter H at 6:43 PM on October 8, 2004


Bush is pissed.

You're so right. W's anger is going to sink him.
posted by 327.ca at 6:43 PM on October 8, 2004


Anyone worried Kerry might come off as to aggressive to the general public?
posted by keswick at 6:43 PM on October 8, 2004


We did something you don't know how to do--we balanced the budget.

psych!
posted by y2karl at 6:44 PM on October 8, 2004


Large man in front row. I fail to see the relevance, but I'm happy to help. The on-mefi commentary is lots of fun though.
posted by fvw at 6:44 PM on October 8, 2004


"Go figure"

Absolutely fantastic.

This moderator sucks.
posted by Mossy at 6:44 PM on October 8, 2004


Style point: While the AP still clings to the capitalization of "Internet," that's based on its being such a unique, singular phenomenon. I think I can say without fear of contradiction that "internets" should not be capitalized. Thank you all for your cooperation in this matter.
posted by soyjoy at 6:44 PM on October 8, 2004


Bush is writing "fuck you, fuck you" on that pad over and over i bet.
posted by amberglow at 6:44 PM on October 8, 2004


Hey. Kerry said internet right.
posted by jeremias at 6:44 PM on October 8, 2004


Kerry knows there's only one internet. Checkmate.
posted by zpousman at 6:45 PM on October 8, 2004


amberglow, ha, but i bet he just wrote it once and is circling around the two words obsessively, and re-tracing over the letters, over and over.
posted by Peter H at 6:46 PM on October 8, 2004


And he added a little pause after saying "internet" without an s. Very funny.
posted by fvw at 6:46 PM on October 8, 2004


I think I know that guy. The large man. I don't remember his name but he is an attorney and has written freelance about NASCAR.
posted by jmgorman at 6:46 PM on October 8, 2004


why won't bush stop yelling? he's starting to freak me out
posted by Espoo2 at 6:46 PM on October 8, 2004


Uh oh. He brought out the "L" word.
posted by keswick at 6:46 PM on October 8, 2004


Bush is bringing up OBGYNs again, and their need to practice love.
posted by Peter H at 6:46 PM on October 8, 2004


"....most liberal Senator of all..."
"I just want want to throw that out there."
posted by pealco at 6:47 PM on October 8, 2004


I think I know that guy. The large man. I don't remember his name but he is an attorney and has written freelance about NASCAR.

Phew, thanks! Things are finally starting to make sense.
posted by 327.ca at 6:47 PM on October 8, 2004


there must be more bald scary-bearded large men like that, you can tell from that low-res pic?
posted by fvw at 6:47 PM on October 8, 2004


Oh my, god. Kerry's laughter. Classic.
posted by keswick at 6:48 PM on October 8, 2004


I think Bush is developing TMJ in real time.
posted by jeremias at 6:48 PM on October 8, 2004


Bush is really hurting himself...it's kinda sad that this is our leader. He's a prick.
posted by amberglow at 6:48 PM on October 8, 2004


Large man in front row. I fail to see the relevance, but I'm happy to help.

Either he's got another guy in there or a whole brood of Alien facegrabbers.
posted by y2karl at 6:48 PM on October 8, 2004


Why didn't Kerry use the example of the NHS and ask if Bush thought that was rationed?
posted by Mossy at 6:49 PM on October 8, 2004


Yeah, bring on the national healthcare. Dude created the largest department in the history of the US government in Home Security.
posted by fenriq at 6:49 PM on October 8, 2004


god, for a minute there, I thought it was going to come to blows.
best. debate. ever.
posted by lilboo at 6:50 PM on October 8, 2004


mofi is busy too.
posted by mwhybark at 6:50 PM on October 8, 2004


They need to trim back Bush's mic, he's pretty consistently clipping.
posted by psmealey at 6:50 PM on October 8, 2004


More expense, less taxes. Mhhh..mmhhh..were does it begin to make ANY sense ?
posted by elpapacito at 6:50 PM on October 8, 2004


I just want to add I've been online for nearly twenty years; even had my dad's compuserve account on our Atari 400 and I can think of nothing funnier in that entire experience than the moment in this thread when we all just burped out "internets", and previewing the comment to posting it and discovering more "internets"

As I write this Bush just told Kerry, rather obliquely, but still said it, "to shut up" Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat!

(still forty minutes left, too!)
posted by Peter H at 6:50 PM on October 8, 2004


not sure about bigguy, just looked like a guy I met at a party

Why won't Charlie let Kerry respond to W's yelling
posted by jmgorman at 6:51 PM on October 8, 2004


He seems to be getting angry and sharp but he's probably making points with his angry constituency, I wonder if he's scaring more people or winning them over?
posted by fenriq at 6:51 PM on October 8, 2004


Olberman on MSNBC is scoring in realtime--Kerry's kicking Bush's ass

Bush has to STOP YELLING ALL HIS ANSWERS!
posted by amberglow at 6:52 PM on October 8, 2004


Charles Gibson is a non-entity as a moderator. They should have got Jenny McCarthy.
posted by jeremias at 6:54 PM on October 8, 2004


"it was the LARGEST STOCK MARKET CORRECTION (ear piece gets clearer) ONE of the most..."
posted by Peter H at 6:55 PM on October 8, 2004


The new theory is that Bush is using that thing that pin-points sound, so that only one person can hear it. Maybe it's too loud. Maybe that's why he is blinking so much.
posted by Espoo2 at 6:55 PM on October 8, 2004


Jenny was awful at that Brady Bunch debateReunion tho. : >
posted by amberglow at 6:57 PM on October 8, 2004


Have you noticed there has not been a single moment of anything resembling humor until Kerry just made a comment about their salaries?
posted by jeremias at 6:57 PM on October 8, 2004


mofi is busy too.

Hey, no fair--they're being too funny!

It's just not credible!

Best.Debate.Ever so far...
posted by y2karl at 6:57 PM on October 8, 2004


Haha is my time up yet? That was the soundbite of the debate!!!!!
posted by fenriq at 6:58 PM on October 8, 2004


Charlie just called them both out and is coming across as quite likeable. I like him much more than Jim Lehrer and Gwen.

Battling green Eye-shades? WTF?
posted by jmgorman at 6:58 PM on October 8, 2004


Bush really needs to stop jumping in before the moderator's finished speaking, he's coming off like he wants to punch him.

Babbling green eyeshades?
posted by TungstenChef at 6:58 PM on October 8, 2004


discovering more "internets"

Peter H, please, you know the plural of internets is "internetses." Remember, folks, it's OK to be snarky, but let's have some respect for the language.
posted by soyjoy at 6:58 PM on October 8, 2004


"battling green eyeshades?"

is that what Bush sees in his DT episodes?
posted by digaman at 6:58 PM on October 8, 2004


Did he say "Senator Kennedy..."
posted by eriko at 6:58 PM on October 8, 2004


baddlin green eyeshaides.

I'm in Texas and can assure you he's not using common phrases. (though he is a carpet bagger from CT, so maybe it's from there) Help here anyone?
posted by Peter H at 6:59 PM on October 8, 2004


Is my time up yet?

God i hope so
posted by dydecker at 6:59 PM on October 8, 2004


"Look at the record" indeed.
posted by keswick at 7:00 PM on October 8, 2004


The audience looks uncomfortable too. Bush is just sucking, and getting kinda desperate.

Ok, this environmental answer is clearly from an earpiece--no way does he know this stuff.
posted by amberglow at 7:00 PM on October 8, 2004


eriko--
yep, both in our house just looked at each other and said "Kennedy?".
posted by karmaville at 7:00 PM on October 8, 2004


"Sore spots"? Don't they just use antibiotics for those usually?
posted by fenriq at 7:00 PM on October 8, 2004


"Is my time up yet? No? Good. <long awkward pause>"
posted by fvw at 7:01 PM on October 8, 2004


3,000,000 new wetlands? Cool. I hope they all have internets.
posted by AstroGuy at 7:01 PM on October 8, 2004


Harvest those forests quick!
posted by digaman at 7:01 PM on October 8, 2004


Whoah. I just woke up. This is fun.

"You can run, but you can't hide...these aren't maked-up figures!"
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:02 PM on October 8, 2004


soyjoy, thank you. ha, Noted!

Man, does anyone else here feel like we're watching that episode of Seinfeld where George gets all the great insults and come-backs on the way home in the car? A whole lot of Bush's quips here feel like they were thought out over the weekend, after the LAST debate. They have this awful rehearsed feeling, like he's practiced them in front of the mirror or to a shelf of dolls.

Costanza: YEAH! YAH! That'll be what I'd say! If only if only...
posted by Peter H at 7:03 PM on October 8, 2004


W's anger is going to sink him.

Yes, my young Jedi. Give in to the dark side.

Matt's mentioned that we shouldn't link to LGF, but over there, they clearly think that Bush is beating Kerry soundly.

CNN Transcript. I don't know where to watch on the net, so I'm reading what I can find. So far, there's not much.
posted by weston at 7:03 PM on October 8, 2004




Ok, this environmental answer is clearly from an earpiece

I confess, I started believing the earpiece craziness for the first time on that environment answer. The pauses were VERY unnaturally strewn into that answer!
posted by Zurishaddai at 7:03 PM on October 8, 2004


Look at the record of the man running for President!

That was risky.
posted by y2karl at 7:03 PM on October 8, 2004


Kerry will believe in science. and the internet
posted by jeremias at 7:04 PM on October 8, 2004


Keeeee-rist, Kerry is smoking him.
posted by fenriq at 7:04 PM on October 8, 2004


The air is cleaner now. That must explain all the asthma.
posted by jmgorman at 7:04 PM on October 8, 2004


"The problem with these forests is that they're not... harvested".

That didn't happen. It's a flashback from the brown acid, right?

I'm going back to my internetses.
posted by eriko at 7:05 PM on October 8, 2004


did he just say his environmental record was splendid?!?
posted by lilboo at 7:05 PM on October 8, 2004


You can watch at CNET
posted by dydecker at 7:05 PM on October 8, 2004


No, he's been a good steward of the internet, is that like a guy on an airplane who brings you some drinks and a little bag of peanuts? Only this time he's handing over old growth forests to his pals?
posted by fenriq at 7:06 PM on October 8, 2004


weston, you can watch at nytimes.com
posted by jmgorman at 7:06 PM on October 8, 2004


For anyone who's interested, the freeper thread is at http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1239548/posts

Currently up to 3500 posts
posted by TungstenChef at 7:07 PM on October 8, 2004


Kerry was brilliant by going back to Nikki's why the world hates us question just now, on Kyoto.

Bush is just too too snippy, and clearly pissed. His face is getting redder too.
posted by amberglow at 7:07 PM on October 8, 2004


utter tangent, but via Danelope a couple days ago:

Poland, you are not forgotten
posted by mwhybark at 7:07 PM on October 8, 2004


Ooops, of the environment, dang, got too excited there.
posted by fenriq at 7:08 PM on October 8, 2004


I don't know where to watch on the net

CSPAN is working fine for me. (Right sidebar: CSPAN or CSPAN2 etc.)
posted by Zurishaddai at 7:08 PM on October 8, 2004


Man, that medical liability reform response sounded totally like Rove whispered that into Bush's transmitter, don't it?
posted by Peter H at 7:08 PM on October 8, 2004


"Need some wood?"
posted by keswick at 7:10 PM on October 8, 2004


you need wood?
posted by jmgorman at 7:10 PM on October 8, 2004


"YOU NEED SOME WOOD? HHEHEH"
sexual harrassment meets the Presidential debates, thanks to GW
posted by Peter H at 7:10 PM on October 8, 2004


I love how Bush keeps saying, "It just is" and "I know it, I just know it." As if that should be plenty for all of us.
posted by fenriq at 7:10 PM on October 8, 2004


I own a timber company ?

From my ears to tomorrow's SNL.
posted by y2karl at 7:11 PM on October 8, 2004


Did Bush just offer the moderator wood?
posted by fvw at 7:11 PM on October 8, 2004


I love how Kerry is smiling in the background.
posted by pealco at 7:12 PM on October 8, 2004


the need some wood is another internets moment we'll all share, forever.
posted by Peter H at 7:13 PM on October 8, 2004


What I really hate about all of the Bush responses is how, instead of offering up some real hard evidence, he always seems to talk about people that he's met or someone that he was talking to.

"So President Bush, what are your plans for bringing peace to Iraq?"

"Well, last week I was talking to Jeremy Botter and he said everything in Iraq is peaceful."
posted by JJBotter at 7:13 PM on October 8, 2004


Kerry reads Paul Krugman:
Under the administration's definition, anyone with "business income" - a group that includes Dick Cheney and George Bush - is a struggling small-business owner.
posted by Zurishaddai at 7:15 PM on October 8, 2004


Bush/Cheney 04: You need wood?

Kerry rocked on the Patriot Act response. And he's rocking on this stem cell thing.
posted by amberglow at 7:15 PM on October 8, 2004


Both Kerry and Bush are getting punchy.
posted by jeremias at 7:16 PM on October 8, 2004


We're not out of the wood yet.
posted by mwhybark at 7:17 PM on October 8, 2004


Bush: Kerry and his running mate should have been getting it on in the Senate

bow chika bow wow!
posted by zwemer at 7:17 PM on October 8, 2004


"Embryonic stem cell research destroys a life.

I'm the first president to allow federal funding for stem cell research."

Um, flip...
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 7:18 PM on October 8, 2004


He's definitely got an earpiece in. If you look at his upper back on the left hand side, you clearly can see a wire bulging through his suit. I've been looking for the actual wire leading up to his ear, but no such luck yet.
posted by JJBotter at 7:19 PM on October 8, 2004


MetaFilter live.

No one need be lonely again.
posted by digaman at 7:19 PM on October 8, 2004


I don't know - he shouldn't have brought up destroying those kidsicles...
posted by lilboo at 7:19 PM on October 8, 2004


So close to a brawl. So very, very close.
posted by keswick at 7:19 PM on October 8, 2004


I like how when Kerry stammers it's because he's thinking to say something intelligent and when Bush stammers it's because it's neurological and because he's stupid and freaked.

on preview: Bush: "I'M NOT TELLING"

a new campaign slogan.
posted by Peter H at 7:19 PM on October 8, 2004


Awww. Bad Supreme Court joke by Bush.
posted by jeremias at 7:20 PM on October 8, 2004


They seem to have calmed down now. Maybe they'll do Kumbaya at the end?
posted by fenriq at 7:20 PM on October 8, 2004


Bush on Supreme Court: "I want them voting for me"

And Dredd-Scott?? What year is this?
posted by jazon at 7:21 PM on October 8, 2004


"I'm not telling". What else is new?
posted by karmaville at 7:21 PM on October 8, 2004


JJbotter: unlikely, if he had a mic it'd be entirely in his ear. Probably just a bulletproof vest.
posted by fvw at 7:21 PM on October 8, 2004


They better report on the wire thing--this is too wrong.

Bush is lying about who he would pick for the Supremes.
posted by amberglow at 7:21 PM on October 8, 2004


Holy christ, Kerry was magnificent on the Supreme Court question!
posted by fenriq at 7:24 PM on October 8, 2004


Oh, and the thing with the trees... you gotta be kidding me.

We wouldn't have all those forest fires if we just cut down all the trees.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 7:25 PM on October 8, 2004


I don't know if it's the earpiece again, but with this Supreme Court question the relatively poised feistiness he's had for most of tonight just evaporated. It was the deer-in-the-headlights Bush from debate #1 all over again.
posted by Zurishaddai at 7:25 PM on October 8, 2004


ooo! Kerry rules! this is an excellent abortion answer! He just got more votes. Excellent!
posted by amberglow at 7:25 PM on October 8, 2004


'one of us is going to pick a justice ijn the next four years'
Did W just recognise his possible defeat?


w00t
posted by jmgorman at 7:26 PM on October 8, 2004


"President Bush himself would have qualified as a "small business owner" under the Republican definition, based on his 2001 federal income tax returns. He reported $84 of business income from his part ownership of a timber-growing enterprise. However, 99.99% of Bush's total income came from other sources that year. (Bush also qualified as a "small business owner" in 2000 based on $314 of "business income," but not in 2002 and 2003 when he reported his timber income as "royalties" on a different tax schedule.)"

via Cheney's favourite website factcheck.ORG.

Ahem.
posted by Mossy at 7:27 PM on October 8, 2004


You know, I hate to say it, but Bush is starting to ease up a little bit and perform better. Perhaps the "wire" is a tube filling him with sedatives.
posted by jeremias at 7:28 PM on October 8, 2004


Bush bobs his head like a chicken when he thinks he's doing ok--hysterical.

Ooo-a mistakes question--let's see Bush get out of it this time.
posted by amberglow at 7:29 PM on October 8, 2004


Oh man, Kerry's rebuttal on abortion was perfect. And Bush's response shows he just doesn't listen or understand.
posted by keswick at 7:30 PM on October 8, 2004


Holy cow last question.

Three mistakes.

But I'm not going to name them.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 7:30 PM on October 8, 2004


It's pretty simple when they say "Are you for a ban on partial birth abortion. Yes or no!"

And damn the life of the mother.
posted by Zurishaddai at 7:30 PM on October 8, 2004


Mr. President, the question was name three mistakes you made, not the one's you got right.
posted by karmaville at 7:30 PM on October 8, 2004



posted by Peter H at 7:30 PM on October 8, 2004


Jazon: 1892.
posted by mwhybark at 7:31 PM on October 8, 2004


Mistakes: he never answered her question.

"list three mistakes and how you fixed them"
posted by jazon at 7:31 PM on October 8, 2004


Bush didn't answer the mistakes question. And he clearly doesn't understand how bills in congress work.
posted by pealco at 7:32 PM on October 8, 2004


Bush is, as always, out of his depth, but he's actually doing much better than I expeceted he'd do. Not that he couldn't be bested by a precocious 12-year-old, but still.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:32 PM on October 8, 2004


Damn, Bush just lobbed that stupid line about the $87 billion. Haven't they learned yet?
posted by fenriq at 7:34 PM on October 8, 2004


So telling. Bush didn't want the final speech.
posted by jeremias at 7:34 PM on October 8, 2004


Agreement to go first? I thought they flip a coin. Why would Kerry want to go first?
posted by AstroGuy at 7:35 PM on October 8, 2004


Still, I think Kerry got this one too.
posted by lilboo at 7:35 PM on October 8, 2004


"I think our country is strongest when we lead the world..."

Fuck that noise.
posted by 327.ca at 7:35 PM on October 8, 2004


Bush failed again. Kerry is the clear winner again.
posted by amberglow at 7:36 PM on October 8, 2004


Note: thanks to pausing live video, I am 10 minutes in the past.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:36 PM on October 8, 2004


right on stavros - Bush didn't have his ass handed to him this time. At least in the eyes of a red-blooded american who occasionally yells his answeres.
posted by jmgorman at 7:37 PM on October 8, 2004




They're both evading the questions, like badly. It sounds as if they have a bunch of general topics memorized which is probably the case.
posted by geoff. at 7:37 PM on October 8, 2004


I missed most of the debate because I was at the gym but from what I saw Bush did much better than the last debate. I think (from what I heard) that nobody on either side is going to be swayed but that both of them may have done well enough to make some of the indecisive decide. Actual results will depend on the actual leanings of the fence sitters.
posted by substrate at 7:38 PM on October 8, 2004


Is Bush's next Supreme Court nominee going to be John Marshall? Strict Constructionist? I haven't heard that term since Grade 11. Sorry, I came into this late, some I'm Tivo'ing 12 minutes behind.
posted by psmealey at 7:38 PM on October 8, 2004


ha, "home ownership rate"
little value, if the whole world attacks us or we lose our job or is the feds spy on us and harrass us, don't you think?

on preview, Bush brings up a f-king comic in the closing statement??
posted by Peter H at 7:38 PM on October 8, 2004


Ok. Here comes the spiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiin.
posted by jeremias at 7:39 PM on October 8, 2004


Kerry had an overweight woman looking like she was about to doze off in the background during his closing statement, but Bush has this woman who looks even more bored, and she's - what - is she picking her teeth?
posted by soyjoy at 7:39 PM on October 8, 2004


No question, this was almost all Kerry.
posted by fenriq at 7:39 PM on October 8, 2004


you want wood on the internets?
posted by amberglow at 7:39 PM on October 8, 2004


Stav: keep a careful eye out for the pie-throwing man in a chicken suit.
posted by mwhybark at 7:40 PM on October 8, 2004


Bush just sprinted over to thank abortion girl...
posted by lilboo at 7:40 PM on October 8, 2004


MSNBC has it 79% for Kerry, 21% for Bush!
posted by fenriq at 7:43 PM on October 8, 2004


If Bush Sr. can get fucked up by not understanding a grocery store food scanner, wee Bush jr. can surely get fucked over by Internets. And I'm serious.
posted by Peter H at 7:44 PM on October 8, 2004


Pat Buchanan is raving about Bush's performance on MSNBC.

Blitzer just said Bush was screaming during the debate on CNN. : >
posted by amberglow at 7:45 PM on October 8, 2004


draw.
posted by dig_duggler at 7:46 PM on October 8, 2004


Ok, everyone still watching TV, get ready for the spin-cycle.

Bush did great! compared to last time
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 7:47 PM on October 8, 2004


Olberman has it at 19 to 2, Kerry over Bush.
posted by fenriq at 7:49 PM on October 8, 2004


draw
A good challenge to GW but we're discussing larger global politics
posted by Peter H at 7:52 PM on October 8, 2004


The Freepers are exhorting each other to "freep this poll". Well, freep them. Wonder why they're so nervous?

So much for all the people who were whining about "it's only Democrats who game the polls".
posted by Sidhedevil at 7:55 PM on October 8, 2004


Bush did better, but that's only because they through a little aggro-energy supplement into his pre-debate drink so he wouldn't slump over the podium. The Rove team didn't count on Kerry doing better. Or actually sounding like a commander-in-chief.

"History will measure my presidency." A sign of concession?
posted by ed at 7:57 PM on October 8, 2004


Dear God! The debate has been over for only 20 minutes and we are at 227 comments already! Jeez it's going to take me another 20 minutes to scroll back up and read them all. Nobody say another word til I get back.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:00 PM on October 8, 2004


The real question of this debate is whether I can order some of Bush's wood over the internets or whether I have to risk smuggling it over from Canada.
posted by fatbobsmith at 8:00 PM on October 8, 2004


Heh. FoxNews poll is 70-30 Kerry. Somebody better get freepin' all right!
posted by soyjoy at 8:01 PM on October 8, 2004


Internets?
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:02 PM on October 8, 2004


That Dred Scott reference blew my mind, too. I turned to pips and said "Wow, he's against slavery? Gee, George, go out on a fuckin' limb, you brave crusader."

I also was irritated by Bush's repeated references to Kerry's desire to be "hallowed in the halls of Europe." Call me crazy, George, but isn't one of your first duties to insure good relations with our allies, which Europe is, last time I checked. Kerry's said he won't give veto power over national security to any foreign power and I believe him.

I think Kerry took this one. Bush came across as cranky and exasperated, where Kerry kept his cool. Go, John, Go.
posted by jonmc at 8:03 PM on October 8, 2004


Hmmmmm Bush did a lot better at the debate than last time, but I think Kerry didn't give the spinmeisters anything meaty to chew on, whereas bush gave them

"I own a Mill?"

Well yeah, what kind of fuckwit owns a mill and doesn't know about it.

Draw live, Kerry to win the spin is my prediction
posted by fullerine at 8:03 PM on October 8, 2004


I really feel that these debates will decide the election. This race is truly close. There are a lot of people who are dissatisfied to some degree or another by Bush's intransigence internationally and his disingenuousness about his ultra-socially conservative policies at home. However, until the debates, the Republican media machine had painted Kerry as this flip-flopping caricature of an elite, waffling liberal. These debates give these people a reasonable, intelligent and downright "presidential" appearing alternative to the Bush administration. We're not stuck with Bush. There is someone strong, articulate and moderate who deserves our vote.
posted by zwemer at 8:04 PM on October 8, 2004


Does anyone think that Bush's offer of "wood" to the moderator was an indictment of his impotence in actually controlling the debate?
posted by Mossy at 8:05 PM on October 8, 2004


When Bush melted down and yelled at the moderator it all became too clear. I laughed then I was aghast. He lost. He lost. he's crazy and he lost. Plus he was obviously on coke with all the jaw grinding. Still Freakin' Kerry...man...Step up. Don't juggle the language. Urgh. Fastle and Internets. I think I'm missing something. Out with the rest of of these freakin' internets goddamn it!! You Mefi'er's you're just saving the best internest for yer own damn selves. Out wit the internets!! Where are they? I once worked with a lady who said she broke the internet. I'm drunk.
posted by Skygazer at 8:05 PM on October 8, 2004


The NBC moderators are calling this a draw.

That's a painful media generated absurdity - and, to be honest, I felt bad for George W. Bush for the fact that he was crushed so thoroughly.

But, he was.
posted by troutfishing at 8:06 PM on October 8, 2004


The "I owned a timber company?" bit will be crucial. Left unabated, that bit alone will be viewed as a rare glimpse into Kerry's subtle bullshit. The media really should honestly call Bush out for pretending to be unaware of his own company.
posted by abcde at 8:06 PM on October 8, 2004



posted by quonsar at 8:09 PM on October 8, 2004


If so many people here think Bush did better this time, why are the casual first-results so much worse? (Please, let me pretend for five minutes that they actually mean something before you deliver the obvious answer...)
posted by lodurr at 8:09 PM on October 8, 2004


230+ comments and nobody asked:

Why is the link to sportsillustrated.cnn.com? This isn't fark - a re-link of an old one won't get rejected :-)


Oh, and NBC covered the timber company -- he DID own stake in a timber company in the past!
posted by twiggy at 8:09 PM on October 8, 2004


Is there a mole or prankster at the online desk at FoxNews tonight? Here's the photo they're leading the page with.

Huh. Maybe they really are fair and balanced...

on preview: quonsar, how'd you sneak your way into that debate audience?
posted by soyjoy at 8:10 PM on October 8, 2004


ABC News just took on the Timber company thing. He showed a profit on his 2001 return from a timber company. The "want to buy some wood" thing was a true Beavis and Butthead moment (huh huh huh huh he said "wood").
posted by psmealey at 8:11 PM on October 8, 2004


Bush played hot-button, binary yes/no politics. He yelled, he got angry, etc. He was a conservative. The base will eat this shit up.

Kerry expanded the debate. Kerry broke and dismissed labels. Kerry attacked with the facts.

GOoPers are going to love this, but I dont think the swing voters will.

I'm sick of this "we ALL thought Saddam has weapons." Fuck that, how about millions of protestors? Hans Blix? Scott Ritter? Saddam's own son in law. etc.

I'm also disgusted at Bush's faux-concern when the politics of the Religious Right comes up. Can he be more transparent? This is a man who executed retarded man and has signed more execution orders than anyone else. Oh right, the uber-religious are just hot to trot about embroys. They dont care what happens to kids once they are born into this 'world of sin' and are awaiting the Rapture.

>Huh. Maybe they really are fair and balanced...

The rats will flee the ship once they realize its sinking. Some of the rats think this is already happening.
posted by skallas at 8:13 PM on October 8, 2004


What the freepers are saying:

"Holy crap! Both FOX moderators just said Kerry WOn.....??"

I'm almost wondering which debate Brit was watching this evening. He sure wasn't watching the one I saw! I really believe Bush finished up mopping the floor with kk!

What debate were The Corner (National Review online) folks watching? Everyone's so damn picky. "Bush's performance was far from perfect, blah, blah, blah." They're just as bad as FOX. Boo!

"WTF is wrong with fox, they are saying kerry won???"
Their smokin crack! They have drank too much from the Kerry Kool aid stand.

I am with you! I prefer talk radio and the news there -- I have totally had it with Cable News.

posted by Zurishaddai at 8:13 PM on October 8, 2004


MSNBC always calls it for the Repubs. Last time, Russert came on and applauded Cheney for lying about never having met Edwards, when one of the times they had met was backstage on his own show.

Matthews actually backtracked the next day.
posted by amberglow at 8:13 PM on October 8, 2004


Oh, that and:
Ron Regan on msnbc. what the F*!C is he doing on tv? go back to ballerina school you H-MO!
posted by Zurishaddai at 8:14 PM on October 8, 2004


Dude, holy crap.

The FOXNEWS poll has Kerry kicking Bush's ass. (Link provided for those not familiar with using the internets)

What the hell? I thought only fascists watched FOXNEWS. Has Kerry's message converted the fascists? Unthinkable!
posted by tcobretti at 8:15 PM on October 8, 2004


Karen Hughes just said on CNN that Bush's personality shone through. LOL!
posted by amberglow at 8:15 PM on October 8, 2004


"....That Dred Scott reference blew my mind, too." - I thought I'd just had a seizure, passed out, and then reawakened. The continuity break was very jarring.

Then, the wood came crashing over the internets to catch my attention.
posted by troutfishing at 8:16 PM on October 8, 2004


Those freeper quotes rule.
posted by tcobretti at 8:19 PM on October 8, 2004


You guys are funny. Bush clearly won this debate.
posted by gyc at 8:19 PM on October 8, 2004


>Karen Hughes just said on CNN that Bush's personality shone through.

That's fine. Hughes works for Bush. She's supposed to say that. Now explain the MSNBC and FOX "journalists" who are saying even nicer things.
posted by skallas at 8:19 PM on October 8, 2004


Immediately after the first debate, I thought it was close, but Kerry won.

After this debate, I thought Kerry won by a mile.

my 2 ¢
posted by donth at 8:20 PM on October 8, 2004


The Freepers are exhorting each other to "freep this poll".

Right-wingers trying to game the polls? I'm shocked, SHOCKED!
posted by clevershark at 8:20 PM on October 8, 2004


On the local news he got called out on his lumbermill ownership and I live in conservative nirvana (though the word nirvana is frowned on because it's from one of those heathen religions)
posted by substrate at 8:20 PM on October 8, 2004


Have any of the pundits mentioned Badnarik and Cobb being arrested?
posted by homunculus at 8:20 PM on October 8, 2004


Atrios on that Dred Scott thing. There are mistakes which happen in live formats, and mistakes which are pre-fabbed, deliberate, and therefore you're held accountable for. Mistakes involving the issue of slavery are particularly offensive, no matter what the mistake.
Bush said:

Another example would be the Dred Scott case, which is where judges years ago said that the constitution allowed slavery because of personal property rights.

Dred Scott wasn't based on property rights. It was based on racism.

posted by amberglow at 8:21 PM on October 8, 2004


I thought Bush did pretty well.
posted by cell divide at 8:22 PM on October 8, 2004


IMO Boooosssshhhhh came out horribly, but once he calmed down he at least sounded sane. Funny that I give him credit for sounding sane. One should have higher expectations for a president. As for scoring questions, he was fastle on the abortion question but tanked pretty much everything else.

Watching the rebroadcast now. He's just so cute when he's angry...
posted by Fezboy! at 8:22 PM on October 8, 2004


Oh - and on Rupert Murdoch's Fox : Murdoch's the major rat now jumping this ship.

But he'll just climb onto another.

After Bush sinks.

"Bush's personality shone through" - can I substitute "whined" for "shone" there ?
posted by troutfishing at 8:23 PM on October 8, 2004


Plus he was obviously on coke with all the jaw grinding.

I thought jaw grinding was a symptom of Ecstasy use, not cocaine!
posted by clevershark at 8:23 PM on October 8, 2004


As far as Bush shining out you can be sure that to a conservative Kerry is going to come across as Lurch on qualudes. Perception is everything, most of us went in to the debate with a low impression of Bush and so we'll notice every faux pas, stumble and mannerism. This is equally true for the conservatives. Basically here or on freep it's gonna be a partisan wankfest.
posted by substrate at 8:24 PM on October 8, 2004


HEllo? Am I on the right Internet?
posted by jmccorm at 8:24 PM on October 8, 2004


Love the freepers. I dont believe all this entertainment is free!

“As the President told Senator Kerry, ‘You can run but you can’t hide.’”

Ooopps.. The last Bush said that to somebody, most of them got dead. He's still working on the survivors.



posted by skallas at 8:24 PM on October 8, 2004


nope, homunculus. I haven't heard a thing--been switching back and forth from CNN to MSNBC.
posted by amberglow at 8:25 PM on October 8, 2004


[insert candidate name] clearly won the debate

Clearly? I do not think it means what you think it means.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:25 PM on October 8, 2004


If so many people here think Bush did better this time, why are the casual first-results so much worse?

"Better" != "better than Kerry".

Also, just to fit in with everyone else - internets! Lumber! LOL!
posted by Remy at 8:28 PM on October 8, 2004


I think the people at FNC sense the winds of change. They don't want to end up on the wrong side of the election if it goes for "the other guy". Sure, they'll tear into Kerry mercilessly after inauguration, but lately they have clearly been dialing down the partisanship lately as it's clear that Bush is on the ropes.

Those freeper quotes never cease to reinforce my faith in the rehabilitative power of America's federal penitentiary system. It almost brings a tear to one's eye. You go, fellas!
posted by psmealey at 8:29 PM on October 8, 2004


Bush did better than last time - I think this format was more conducive to his personality.

I also think that while he raised his voice a bit at times, I don't think he was yelling. I'm still not actually sure who "won" this one. They both answered their questions (except for the last one which Bush conveniently ignored) reasonably well.

I do believe that for every rabid Freeper there's a rabid...whatever snarky name they have for liberals. As with many things, the truth lies somewhere in the middle of the "Holy Crap! just kicked 's ass!"


posted by TeamBilly at 8:29 PM on October 8, 2004


My favorite moments of the debate?

1. When Bush proclaimed himself a steward of the environment. My "Hahahahaha" could be heard in the next county.

2. When the woman asked for his three mistakes, a common job aplication question, Bush pounced on how great it was that he invaded Iraq.

3. When asked about how the Patriot Acts (I & II) are eroding our freedoms, Bush responded by saying he would fight for every American's constitutional rights-- he would never let them be eroded.

Kerry was smooth, Bush's performance was greatly improved. If you were completely ignorant about the issues and took everything at face value you could call it a draw.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:29 PM on October 8, 2004


It looks like Badnarik was arrested.
posted by substrate at 8:31 PM on October 8, 2004


Wow, foxnews is still 70-30 after 65,000 votes. The other ones on fox were much closer at this point. WTF is going on? Are all the freepers out beating up homos tonight or something?
posted by soyjoy at 8:31 PM on October 8, 2004



posted by quonsar at 8:32 PM on October 8, 2004


Best. Debate. Ever.

Best. Thread. Ever.
posted by bluedaniel at 8:32 PM on October 8, 2004


all the freepers

well, not ALL the freepers, obviously. Some have to stay behind to provide quotes for our delectation...
posted by soyjoy at 8:33 PM on October 8, 2004


I found Bush to be arrogant, unconcerned, and very, very angry.
posted by four panels at 8:34 PM on October 8, 2004


Bush jaw grinding ? - various drugs can do that, I've read.

"Basically here or on freep it's gonna be a partisan wankfest." - that might be true if some horrible accident has driven an iron pole through the frontal lobes and speech centers of your brain, yes.

Otherwise, the logical import of language helps.

There is no equivalence here, I'm sorry to say.

Bush got stomped like a bug.
posted by troutfishing at 8:35 PM on October 8, 2004


what four panels said--it's going to hurt him with women, and moderates.
posted by amberglow at 8:36 PM on October 8, 2004


Umm.... all these heavy skews toward Kerry... and implicit snubs to Bush, like O'Reilly's call that "if he loses the debate he loses the election"....

Are we watching the rats leaving the ship? Has everyone outside of the President's own Royal Court decided to stand down and dissassociate themselves?

This is weird. I would expect more spin than this...
posted by lodurr at 8:38 PM on October 8, 2004


Wow, foxnews is still 70-30 after 65,000 votes.

one thing that the left has done well is that they have banged on their side to make sure they click on every debate poll they see. just look at dailykos.com, located on your nearest convenient internets terminal. it's a brilliant move. now stop being shocked by it.

i personally thought that the debate was a draw, it's not about the color of the smoke, it's how it feels going up your ass. in that respect, they did about the same on their rhetoric.
posted by graventy at 8:38 PM on October 8, 2004


FWIW folks, www.metafilters.com is available. If someone grabs it, you can be sure Bush'll read it.
posted by bluedaniel at 8:38 PM on October 8, 2004


You could tell which issues they had been relentlessly coached on and which they had not. When they were discussing stem cell research, both candidates slowed their rapid-fire speech and seemed to be searching for words. In fact, Kerry had a very rare moment of aphasia when he couldn't think of the word paralysis. I felt for him because I suffer from aphasia all the time.

I really think Bush must have had a nap today-- and about 5 AMP colas.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:38 PM on October 8, 2004


The abortion question girl was cute, until she asked-ed her abrotion question. Then she was scary. All those nice people's in Mizzurah...gawd bless em.
posted by Skygazer at 8:40 PM on October 8, 2004


Kerry's abortion and stem cell answers were slam dunks.

Interesting: the front page of the New York Times website is running with an article about the mysterious Bush bulge. Wonder where it will be placed in the print edition tomorrow?
posted by 4easypayments at 8:41 PM on October 8, 2004


I can't believe no one has mentioned GWB's good-ole-boy winking! He winked at people like three times. As in, "Yes I've killed a lot of people, but I'm such a charmer!" *wink wink*
posted by fungible at 8:41 PM on October 8, 2004


Oh man, I should just donate to the freepers. No one should be laughing this hard for free! Here's the obligatory "liberal media" conspiracy guy!

Watch what you wish for Kerry- if you graduate more students in the sciences and engineering your liberal-breeding journalist schools won't have as many new kids to keep you neck deep in propagandists.


What are these people complaining about? The other candidate is for tort reform, pro apartheid Israel, pro faith based funding, pro-balanced budget, pro-death pentalty, etc. I guess in America the conservatives like their leaders to be extremists. And you guys have FOX and MSNBC kissing your asses. Wow, its like listening to rich people complain about trivial crap.
posted by skallas at 8:44 PM on October 8, 2004



posted by quonsar at 8:44 PM on October 8, 2004


"We're working on clean coal energy, it's clean because it's coal" --Bush
posted by Skygazer at 8:44 PM on October 8, 2004


To me, this debate seemed to be primarily about substance and trust.

Somewhat over 50% of Americans right now don't trust Bush. Approximately the same percentage didn't trust Kerry.

More of them trust Kerry now. He answered the questions more completely, and did so in ways that stood out in stark contrast to most of Bush's responses. Bush was on the defensive most of the debate, and dodged a lot of tough questions. John Kerry dodged a few too, but was more direct and honest... and ultimately more personable than we've usually seen him in the past.

Bush's biggest flub: To fail to answer what he thought were his three biggest failures.
Kerry's biggest flub: Not to point that out, and not to respond back with three failings of his own. He could've put the election away had he done so.

This debate should establish Kerry as top dog. I think voters are connecting more to Kerry and fearing less... especially after Kerry's promise not to increase their taxes. *THAT* was the key moment of this debate. Kerry's got a week to change focus and nail down his economic and domestic issue zingers against Bush. He will do so. This debate was just an appetizer, as far as that was concerned. Next week, he'll look as substantial as steak. Bush will look like dead meat. The summit is in sight. The rest is downhill. The fear is over. The clouds are passing. The way forward is clear.

As Churchill said after victory in the battle over Britain's skies, "This is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
posted by insomnia_lj at 8:45 PM on October 8, 2004


"....they did about the same on their rhetoric." - Ok, I might disagree...

But, rhetoric's infinitely pliable - what about facts and truth ?
posted by troutfishing at 8:45 PM on October 8, 2004


Ann Coulter just told Larry King that Iraq is a success! Wow, they are trying, I'll give them that but jeez, he lost. He looked like a loony freak half the time and a half drunk charmer.
posted by fenriq at 8:47 PM on October 8, 2004



posted by TungstenChef at 8:49 PM on October 8, 2004


Ann Coulter is being batshit as usual on CNN right now, if anyone is thinking about Halloween costumes.

keep it up skallas--i'm loving those : >
posted by amberglow at 8:50 PM on October 8, 2004


The summit is in sight. The rest is downhill. The fear is over. The clouds are passing. The way forward is clear.

Lord, I hope you're right.

There's those pesky problems of an unwinnable war in Iraq and a nuclear North Korea, to mention a couple, though. Just firing Bush and his gang isn't going to magically make all the bad stuff go away.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:53 PM on October 8, 2004


... and not to respond back with three failings of his own.

Yep. I heard that question, and my first thought was: "It would be a master stroke for Kerry to ignore Bush's answer and say, 'I'm going to tell you three of my own...'" Would have been brilliant. If he could have pulled it off.

Then again, when you're not staring down the cameras, it's easy to make calls. Still, though...
posted by lodurr at 8:54 PM on October 8, 2004


Kos has a roundup of pundits complimenting Kerry--some surprising.
posted by amberglow at 8:54 PM on October 8, 2004


TY Webb: "What's wrong with lumberyards? I own two of them."

Danny Noonan: "I notice you don't spend a lot of time there."

Ty Webb: "I'm not really sure where they are."
posted by mr_crash_davis at 8:54 PM on October 8, 2004


stavros - yes, it's an enormous pile of shit

On taxes : Kerry looked straight into the camera and claimed personal responsibility for his future decisions as president. We'll see.

Meanwhile, Bush seemed to be reciting a walking litany of excuses for trouble on his watch : responsibility for him, it seems, is elsewhere.

The Democrats are the new party of personal responsibility.
posted by troutfishing at 8:56 PM on October 8, 2004


Missed it the first time around, but am currently watching the replay on CSPAN2. Gibson just called them both out on promising to cut the deficit, but not saying anything about how. Know what? EVEN IN THEIR RESPONSES TO GIBSON'S DIRECT QUESTION, BOTH CANDIDATES STILL SAID NOTHING ABOUT HOW THEY WOULD REDUCE THE DEFICIT. Sorry for the shouting, but that just pissed me off.

On preview: Gibson just asked it again. Kerry at least said something relevant this time about cutting corporate welfare. Bush attacked Kerry's record but still said nothing about how he would reduce the deficit.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 8:58 PM on October 8, 2004


There's one debate left. The mind reels...
posted by Skygazer at 8:59 PM on October 8, 2004


Did anybody else catch the woman in the back row laughing so hard she looked like she was going to fall out of her chair during one of Bush's answers? I can't remember the question, I was cracking up myself, but on the C-SPAN split-screen it was quite clear.

I thought Kerry ended very strongly. His last answer and his closing statement could have come from the pulpit (just not a religious fanatical one). Based on his close alone I have to go with Kerry. Succint and covered all the bases (though I personally thought he could have laid off the war talk just a bit).

Both evaded questions equally, though I just knew when that poor woman asked Bush to list his mistakes that there was no way in hell he was actually going to answer that.

Bush seemed really angry in the middle of the debate, especially when he took a shot at the moderator and demanded to have a rebuttal. He also jumped up a lot when he disagreed with something Kerry said, like an insistent child who has to whine his way out of something.

Kerry missed some great zingers, including one about how Bush doesn't mind killing human lives as long as they aren't in this country (during his embryonic stem cell spiel).
posted by somethingotherthan at 9:01 PM on October 8, 2004


Anyone thinks there will be a civil war after this election?
posted by semmi at 9:11 PM on October 8, 2004


I agree with somethingotherthan that Kerry should be a little more of a jackass. For example, "Even though the president carefully avoided answering your question, I would answer it by saying..." Kerry could then have easily given a sermon about the character flaws of some one who can't admit his mistakes.

I'm not saying Kerry didn't dodge some questions, but he could have planted a cross and nailed bush to it on the three mistakes question, on the environment, and on the overspending.

I will say that I'm astonished that Bush did as well as he did. I was expecting a flat out self-destruction from him.
posted by tcobretti at 9:13 PM on October 8, 2004


Anyone thinks there will be a civil war after this election?

John Titor does.
posted by gyc at 9:14 PM on October 8, 2004


civil war: they've got the guns, but we've got the numbers
posted by tcobretti at 9:14 PM on October 8, 2004


semmi - civil war? - If you believe in teachings of Jesus Christ, then no.

Also - WHO THE HELL IS GIBSON ?
posted by troutfishing at 9:16 PM on October 8, 2004


interesting abc memo

Charlie Gibson--the moderator, and cohost of Good Morning America.
posted by amberglow at 9:21 PM on October 8, 2004



posted by TungstenChef at 9:22 PM on October 8, 2004


2. When the woman asked for his three mistakes, a common job aplication question, Bush pounced on how great it was that he invaded Iraq.

Even more amusing about was how he first patronizingly explained to her that when "they" ask that question what "they really are asking about" is Iraq. Apparently he really is hearing thoose voices in his head, because *they* clearly asked some other question that drowned hers out.

Of course, once again he was able to look back on the magnificence of his life and not find a single bad decision*. Sheesh, you'd think he'd at least take the opportunity to kiss up to the evangelical consituency by citing the drunk driving as mistake and getting god as the corrective that's turned him infallible ever since.


[*] Except for hiring certain folks whose feelings he doesn't want to hurt on national tv (ahem, whose a tough guy now?). Any guesses on which three he couldn't bear to see cry? I'm voting Powell, Clarke, and Bremer. They're all high on his shitlist these days

Oh, and Dred Scott. WTF. Well thank god we know where he stands. All you slavery-loving judges, you'd better give Kerry your vote now because Bush is turning his back on you. No Supreme Court for you. On the other hand, he didn't rule out appointing you to the lower courts...

Did anybody else catch the woman in the back row laughing so hard she looked like she was going to fall out of her chair during one of Bush's answers? I can't remember the question, I was cracking up myself, but on the C-SPAN split-screen it was quite clear.

YES. When Bush offered "wood" to the crowd, a lady in the back row couldn't stop laughing. She still had her hands clamped over her mouth maybe a minute later. Man, Missourah must be one heck of a stuffy place. The president told a dirty joke, and only one person in the room got it.
posted by nakedcodemonkey at 9:24 PM on October 8, 2004


Okay...

So I'm watching "Debate After Hours" on MSNBC. Can anybody tell me what's up with the three giant dolphin heads in the crowd behind the panelists?

One of them is orange. And I'm scared.
posted by *burp* at 9:26 PM on October 8, 2004



posted by skallas at 9:30 PM on October 8, 2004


I don't agree with others here that Kerry did well on the abortion question--in fact, this is one of the ones he dodged. He gave the more-or-less standard politician answer as to why abortion should be legal. But the question asked was not whether abortion should be legal, but whether government funds should be used for abortion. Two different things, and Kerry did not address what was actually asked. (OTOH, Kerry clearly defined why he voted against the partial-birth abortion ban, and Bush's subsequent attempt to attack him on that fell utterly flat.)

Anyone thinks there will be a civil war after this election?

Only if Bush wins. The armed rebellion folks are more likely to come from the libertarian branch of the Republican party, and not the theocratic branch, and the libertarian-leaning ones are abandoning Bush in droves.

Kerry missed some great zingers, including one about how Bush doesn't mind killing human lives as long as they aren't in this country

I don't agree—that comes too close to demeaning the sacrifice of US troops, and Kerry was right to avoid it.

One zinger Kerry did miss, though. Kerry points out that troops are lacking body armor; Bush charges that Kerry voted against the $87B authorization. I would have liked to see Kerry say, "Well, the president got his $87 billion, and the troops still don't have their body armor."
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 9:31 PM on October 8, 2004


ack. i forgot about the damn thing and was outside watching the stars and following my cat around the gardens the entire time. well fuckity fuck fuck. oh well.
posted by bargle at 9:31 PM on October 8, 2004


the dolphins are supposed to represent Kerry flip-flopping, *burp*
posted by amberglow at 9:36 PM on October 8, 2004


http://www.oliverwillis.com/stuff/bushflipsout.wmv

Check this out, and send it to all your friends. This clip is your major insight from this debate.
posted by VulcanMike at 9:37 PM on October 8, 2004


iownamill.com is still available:

posted by sixdifferentways at 9:37 PM on October 8, 2004


I will say that I'm astonished that Bush did as well as he did. I was expecting a flat out self-destruction from him.

His deviancy has long been defined down by the soft bigotry of our diminished expectations.
posted by y2karl at 9:40 PM on October 8, 2004


Oh, right. "Flipper." Got it. Thanks, amberglow.

(Any good reason why one of them is orange?)
posted by *burp* at 9:48 PM on October 8, 2004


to scare children? i have no idea--the local costume shop was out of gray ones? : >

that clip is so telling, Vulcan.
posted by amberglow at 9:52 PM on October 8, 2004


"to scare children?"

Worked on me, I guess! (But I feel much better now.)
posted by *burp* at 9:55 PM on October 8, 2004


flippercam!
posted by 10sball at 10:03 PM on October 8, 2004


You need some wood?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:04 PM on October 8, 2004


Any good reason why one of them is orange?

fake tan.
posted by quonsar at 10:07 PM on October 8, 2004


I don't agree—that comes too close to demeaning the sacrifice of US troops, and Kerry was right to avoid it.


Oh, I knew he wasn't going to say it (probably a rule against it buried in that 32-page rules of debate guide) but that's the first thing that came into my mind after Bush looked so proud about saving human life.

That wasn't the only zinger he missed but it was one of the more obvious to me.

YES. When Bush offered "wood" to the crowd, a lady in the back row couldn't stop laughing. She still had her hands clamped over her mouth maybe a minute later. Man, Missourah must be one heck of a stuffy place. The president told a dirty joke, and only one person in the room got it.

Thanks for the clarification, nakedcodemonkey. I completely missed the wood joke, the crowd I was with was already laughing at something else he said.
posted by somethingotherthan at 10:12 PM on October 8, 2004


tcobretti: "civil war: they've got the guns, but we've got the numbers"

Um... lots of us have guns too. Just sayin'. It's in the Constitution, in theory for just such an emergency.

And someone with the same last name as a Sly character should know that... (Marion.)

I didn't watch, but I'm glad I read this thread. I'm a lot more relaxed now. Huh huh huh huh... wood. :D
posted by zoogleplex at 10:25 PM on October 8, 2004


And this: http://needsumwood.com/.
posted by George_Spiggott at 10:26 PM on October 8, 2004


Those domain name links are already pretty good, but there's an annoying Javascript pop-up dialogue on the latter one. Anyway, I think it was quonsar who summed it up the most directly.

(Still don't understand how he tricked Gallup into letting him into the first row of the debates)
posted by soyjoy at 10:30 PM on October 8, 2004


Well, bush looks like an idiot, talks like an idiot. I wonder if he smells like and idiot?

This faith in Bush's intelligence reminds me of some Dostoevskian respect for fools in Christ. It requires an awful lot of faith to put your trust in man who is so stubborn, un-nuanced, and unable to pronounce two and three syllable words correctly. What do people see in this guy?
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 10:36 PM on October 8, 2004


Oh he's a MANLY man! A STRONG man! Who knows how to protect us all! Urrr! Manly! URR!!
posted by zoogleplex at 10:40 PM on October 8, 2004


Well, bush looks like an idiot, talks like an idiot.

And... "Just heard on CNN: GWB walks like he is waiting for his Right Guard to dry."

Cracked me the hell up, anyway.
posted by soyjoy at 10:45 PM on October 8, 2004




gesamtkunstwerk: here are some of those syllables.
posted by protocool at 10:46 PM on October 8, 2004


He knows how, he just does. Come on now, he knows how the world works. He knows, he just knows. He knows he's right, he just knows.

Olberman's wrap up on MSNBC is utter crap, he creates a 15 point swing and calls it a virtual tie. How does he go from Kerry 19 and Bush 2 to 15-12? Five points for Bush for posing for pictures and five off of Kerry for not posing for pictures and five more points for Bush because he didn't sound like a bumbling fool.

I'm seeing more and more calling it a tie though. I'm not sure how.
posted by fenriq at 10:47 PM on October 8, 2004


It's just a pity that Bush lashing out at Gibson won't even be part of the media story, unlike Gore's sighs were. Disgusting, really.

I think the media wants this to be a tighter race than it really is.
posted by amberglow at 10:48 PM on October 8, 2004


Oh, and even after 296,000 votes Kerry's ahead (marginally) on Fox. Fox! That's pretty amazing. I know it's not scientific or anything, but I think we've at least learned today that when it comes to freeping the polls, he who has the most internets wins.
posted by soyjoy at 10:50 PM on October 8, 2004


euphorb, that ebay thing is hysterical! especially the FAQ : >
posted by amberglow at 10:54 PM on October 8, 2004


"wanna buy some wood?"



wtf?

more trees less bush
posted by specialk420 at 10:56 PM on October 8, 2004


euphorb, that's a good one. Hope this pic stays up there.
posted by soyjoy at 10:57 PM on October 8, 2004


haliburton - cheney - iran from fox news ... i just wish kerry and edwards would hit the ammo dump the bush/cheney clownies have left unguarded ...
posted by specialk420 at 11:00 PM on October 8, 2004


I think the media wants this to be a tighter race than it really is.

Well, duh. Tighter race = better ratings.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 11:02 PM on October 8, 2004


i just wish kerry and edwards would hit the ammo dump the bush/cheney clownies have left unguarded ...
Speaking of that, I want Kerry to hit Bush for taking a loan from BCCI (Your friendly neighborhood terror-financing bank.)
posted by amberglow at 11:05 PM on October 8, 2004


Well even if Fox viewers are finally evening that poll out, CNN's poll is still 77% Kerry with 322.5K votes. Only 2% saying it was tied. Perhaps people are getting tired of Bush's act?
posted by edgeways at 11:09 PM on October 8, 2004


Those domain name links are already pretty good, but there's an annoying Javascript pop-up dialogue

Try FireFox - it's the best browser for the internets.
posted by sixdifferentways at 11:10 PM on October 8, 2004


But... is it made of...

... wood?

BURN IT ANYWAY!!!!
posted by zoogleplex at 11:12 PM on October 8, 2004


As a confused foreigner, can I just get my facts straight here...

The President is evil incarnate.

Two opposing presidential candidates were just arrested.

And it's STILL GONNA BE CLOSE.

Is that right?
posted by Pretty_Generic at 11:12 PM on October 8, 2004


"the president got $84 from a timber company that owns, and he's counted as a small business."

PWN3D!!!!!!oneoneone
posted by Pretty_Generic at 11:16 PM on October 8, 2004


Meanwhile, as we sit here moving our jaws from side to side, someone's done went & gone and snapped up battlinggreeneyeshades.com.

P.S. edgeways: you forgot the internets.
posted by soyjoy at 11:17 PM on October 8, 2004


I thought this from Olberman was funny: The scorer's table reproaches President Bush for not knowing when he has wood.
posted by mr.marx at 11:19 PM on October 8, 2004


All your internets are belong to us
posted by nix at 11:24 PM on October 8, 2004


First post debate poll calls it a tie...

More I'm sure to follow
posted by aaronscool at 11:25 PM on October 8, 2004


Will someone on the internets please animate some battling green eye shades?
posted by Pretty_Generic at 11:26 PM on October 8, 2004


Sorry...

Wood someone on the internets please animate some battling green eye shades?
posted by Pretty_Generic at 11:27 PM on October 8, 2004


crash davis - oh, that Caddyshack reference nearly left my screen covered in sugar frosted chocolate bombs. My vote for the most poignant comment about tonight!
posted by TomSophieIvy at 11:27 PM on October 8, 2004


I love crackpot theories and I'm sure this is utter horseshit but watching the rebroadcast right now on CNN there is a very bizarre blackened space in Bush's right side ear.

(dons tinfoil hat) It's a bug! transmittr!

But seriously, that so craizy!... it's seriously a blackened shape, suggestin' somethings crammed in there. wacky!
posted by Peter H at 11:41 PM on October 8, 2004


Olbermann's got his moments but his scoring was decreed from on high.
posted by fenriq at 11:43 PM on October 8, 2004


Oh my god crash, I totally shouted out "Who are you, Ty Webb?" at the Tank in NYC and no one got it. I'm glad someone's up on their 'shack.
posted by condour75 at 11:43 PM on October 8, 2004


Peter H, you're right, he does. I just saw it too.
posted by fenriq at 11:45 PM on October 8, 2004


Bush was wearing body armour tonight, the vest was clearly visible. That's probably the explanation to the "bulge" thing.

But I don't think he has armour in his ears.
posted by mr.marx at 11:47 PM on October 8, 2004


Transmitter? The bloke is animatronic and always has been. The fluff about the pretzel and the colonoscopy was just smokescreen to convince us he is a biological entity.
posted by scarabic at 12:15 AM on October 9, 2004


According to the White House, last week's "bulge" definitely was not body armour. They're trying to pass it off as a fabric crumple. So maybe the president has crumpled ears too (ah-hah, so that's why he can't hear advice that disagrees with his agenda...).

Peter H, do you have a time index when the black thing is visible, or recall which question they were on? Sure would like to check the tape.
posted by nakedcodemonkey at 12:17 AM on October 9, 2004


"First post debate poll calls it a tie..."

No it doesn't. It says that Kerry won 47% to 45% in a demographic where 38 percent were Republican, 32 percent were Democratic and 30 percent were independent.

Clearly, a very significant majority of the independents trended for Kerry. That's a win, albeit a much narrower one than in the previous debate.
posted by insomnia_lj at 12:31 AM on October 9, 2004


From Future-Man John Titors site that was linked above:

Does the current relationship between Arabs and Jews have anything to do with the coming war?

Real disruptions in world events begin with the destabilization of the West as a result of degrading US foreign policy and consistency. This becomes apparent around 2004 as civil unrest develops near the next presidential election. The Jewish population in Israel is not prepared for a true offensive war. They are prepared for the ultimate defense. Wavering western support for Israel is what gives Israel's neighbors the confidence to attack. The last resort for a defensive Israel and its offensive Arab neighbors is to use weapons of mass destruction. In the grand scheme of things, the war in the Middle East is a part of what's to come, not the cause.



and then,

You say you don't want to effect anything by giving information but you could change this worldline just by talking about the war, or anything for that matter.

I don't believe that knowing a possible future makes it happen. You are capable of changing your worldline for the better right now. None of the things I have said will be a surprise. They were set in motion ten, twenty, even thirty years ago. Are you really surprised to find out that Iraq has nukes now or is that just BS to whip everyone up into accepting the next war?
posted by Espoo2 at 1:01 AM on October 9, 2004


Can anyone direct me to somewhere I can download the full debate in Mpeg, Windows Media, Quicktime, DivX or flipbook animation? I don't want a streaming source, I want a big stinking file.
posted by sycophant at 1:42 AM on October 9, 2004


creepy.
posted by Quartermass at 1:44 AM on October 9, 2004



posted by shepd at 1:50 AM on October 9, 2004


Now is not the time to comments on the internets
posted by Keyser Soze at 1:59 AM on October 9, 2004


Jesus Christ it's like the only thing my president has seen on the net is snopes.com
posted by Keyser Soze at 2:00 AM on October 9, 2004


The mystery of the bulge. The New York Times has picked up the bulge.

Count down until this becomes a Front Page Post.
posted by jeremias at 3:34 AM on October 9, 2004


How to use the internets:

1) Fool me once.
2) Shame on.
3) Shame on you.
4) You fool me can't get fooled again!

You should now be waterskiing on the infotainment superracetrack.

Regularly clean the wood of your computer-desk-table. Don't forget polish.
posted by Pretty_Generic at 3:54 AM on October 9, 2004


'Bush's mystery bulge' is the funniest headline I've seen since that last funny headline I saw.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:22 AM on October 9, 2004


I liked that last one too, hilarious!
posted by mr.marx at 4:55 AM on October 9, 2004


Anyone know if they did an exit poll of the audience?

LMAO @ quonsar & soyjoy, BTW.
posted by yoga at 5:33 AM on October 9, 2004


Bush is writing "fuck you, fuck you" on that pad over and over i bet.

Genuine coffee spitting moment amberglow! tnx
posted by DrDoberman at 5:49 AM on October 9, 2004


Speaking of having wood, Al Gore had a bulge on the cover of Rolling Stone, but I don't think it was a mystery.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:25 AM on October 9, 2004


We do loves a good conspiracies, yes, we does....

How about, isbushwired.com, the weblog:
Think about it: If you were George Bush, what would you fear more, going into a debate with John Kerry without body armor -- or without your prompter? Take a look at this device.
With thanks to Largehearted Boy.
posted by mmahaffie at 8:26 AM on October 9, 2004


The Bush Bulge: he's got his thumb up his ass and his mind in neutral.
posted by Postroad at 8:29 AM on October 9, 2004




America will never be safe when its leader is this unstable


posted by EmoChild at 9:34 AM on October 9, 2004


fastle

Y'all do realize that it was 'facile,' a perfectly good English word albeit one which Bush misused egregiously, right?
posted by IshmaelGraves at 9:37 AM on October 9, 2004


I'm surprised no one else has noticed that Bush claims to have come up with the idea for a hydrogen powered car:

That's why I proposed a hydrogen automobile -- hydrogen-generated automobile.

This is one great president, man. New internets and he thought up the hydrogen-powered car, all by hisself! Not even Unky Rove helpded him!
posted by eustacescrubb at 9:39 AM on October 9, 2004


Thanks, fenriq, for setting this up. Otherwise we'd probably have four FPPs with different links to polls, etc. on the debate.

I'm all for doing this on a daily basis -- create an Election 2004 FPP where people can dump links and discuss. It'd make the FP cleaner by not cluttering it with link after link after link after link (ad nauseum) about the election.
posted by papercake at 9:55 AM on October 9, 2004


The Emperor doesn't have anything under that jacket!
posted by DrDoberman at 9:59 AM on October 9, 2004


*waits patiently for Bush to take credit for proposing an environmentally friendly hydrogen-powered dirigible.*
posted by junkbox at 10:26 AM on October 9, 2004


Speaking of wood...

Bush, The Tree and Me
posted by feelinglistless at 10:27 AM on October 9, 2004


I'm surprised no one has pounced on this little Bush throwaway line:

"I wasn't happy when we found out there wasn't weapons [in Iraq]..."

Really, George? I sure as hell was happy to learn there wasn't a nuke pointed at my bedroom.
posted by jpoulos at 10:58 AM on October 9, 2004


IshmaelGraves: You betcha we do, but we generally pronounce it with a silent 't' and use it in proper context.
posted by Fezboy! at 11:13 AM on October 9, 2004


I watched/listened last night to Nader on Moyers' "Now." I wish he were a viable choice.
posted by semmi at 11:22 AM on October 9, 2004


A friend reminded me of a line that I spotted last night, but forgot:

"Senator Kennedy is the most liberal senator in congress."

I sat there for a minute, thinking, "Why is he talking about Kennedy?"

On Preview: Semmi, I liked having Nader around in '00 to call attention to the third party issues, much as I liked having Braun and Sharpton around in the Dem primaries, but none of them will ever be viable candidates. If Nader, in particular, ever had to face as much scrutiny as Bush and Kerry, he'd get toasted.
posted by lodurr at 11:26 AM on October 9, 2004


This thread has been just wonderful. It's fastleness has given me real hope about the hydrogen powered woods of the internets.
posted by dejah420 at 11:39 AM on October 9, 2004


Damn, I missed all, well some (thanks, MeFi!), of the fun.

Note to self: watch the last debate.
posted by deborah at 12:16 PM on October 9, 2004


Actually, a "hydrogen-generated automobile" wouldn't necessarily be poweredby hydrogen, but it would be generated by it. Bush proposed an automobile made out of hydrogen.
posted by emelenjr at 12:43 PM on October 9, 2004



posted by bob sarabia at 12:47 PM on October 9, 2004




Presidential Candidates stage publicity stunt, Media don't bite.
posted by jpoulos at 3:01 PM on October 9, 2004


papercake, I'm glad it worked out this well. I've really enjoyed reading the comments and laughing out loud.

Rewatching it will be a good time.
posted by fenriq at 5:29 PM on October 9, 2004


MeFi: It's fastleness has given me real hope about the hydrogen powered woods of the internets.

dejah420, that was perfect!
posted by gen at 5:56 PM on October 9, 2004


Gore's been upped. W invented the internets.
posted by NewBornHippy at 6:55 PM on October 9, 2004


There are 400 posts in this thread now.
posted by dobbs at 7:02 PM on October 9, 2004


Dred Scott = Roe v. Wade
posted by mr.marx at 9:32 PM on October 9, 2004


I love the people who are saying "Bush meant to say "facile", not "fastle"."

First of all--"facile" doesn't have a "t" in it.

Second of all--"facile" makes no more sense than "fastle" in that context.

Third of all--it made me laugh a lot. But not as much as Bush's temper tantrum about how dictators might give terrorists weapons of mass destruction.
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:25 PM on October 9, 2004


James Wolcott's analysis:

For much of last night's debate George Bush looked like a blister about to pop. Loud, mouthy, swaggering, interested only in hearing himself lay down the law, he behaved like a verbally abusive husband. Not a wifebeater but a browbeater with a bar-fighter's grin. It is astonishing and sobering that this dull roar with a one-track mind that runs on tank treads is fighting for reelection instead of facing impeachment; his lies and failures have fed thousands of graves, and filled thousands more hospital beds with bodies and psyches that will never be whole again. And still our mainstream pundits can not, will not see him for what he is. He cracks a corny joke, and they marvel at his Reaganesque humor. He hollers at Charlie Gibson, and he's hailed as a take-charge guy. ...

But just as the MSNBC panel, which ought to be shipped to Guantanamo for the duration of the election season, blundered so badly after the Cheney-Edwards debate, the pundits didn't seem to recognize what was happening in front of their eyes last night. As Pauline Kael used to say after reading the reviews of certain movie critics, "It's hard to believe they were actually looking at the screen." Fortunately, the cable-news spinmeisters seem to matter less and less in the framing of the debate reaction--they've insulted the viewers' sense of reality too many times.

Also, WTF is wrong with Chris Matthews these days? Is he having a reaction to the mind control drugs that NBC is feeding him?
posted by psmealey at 11:02 AM on October 10, 2004


I want Kerry to hit Bush for taking a loan from BCCI

I've been waiting for BCCI to make a comeback.

(BCCI is one of the reasons I didn't select Bush last time - perhaps the logic is if BCCI wasn't interesting last time, it won't be interesting this time)
posted by rough ashlar at 7:28 PM on October 10, 2004




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