Dead or alive - who decides

October 14, 2004 6:46 AM

Little Jesse Koochinremains hooked up to a ventilator at Primary Children's Medical Center, oblivious to the controversy that has erupted around him. Doctors at the Salt Lake City hospital pronounced the 6-year-old cancer patient brain-dead this week and want to remove life support. Jesse's parents, Steve and Gayle Koochin, insist their youngest child is alive and believe they can bring him back to health with alternative medicine. Hospital officials maintain the boy is dead and has begun decomposing.
posted by mr_crash_davis (23 comments total)

Is "decomposing" the correct term? Seems like his body will slowly atrophy, but decomposing seems a bit harsh for any body that is being maintained on life support.
posted by fleener at 7:01 AM on October 14, 2004

We're missing some timeline between the last real update to the boy's site and his current state.
posted by grabbingsand at 7:07 AM on October 14, 2004

IIRC, life-support cannot keep organs alive indefinitely after true brain-death. At least, that was the explanation I heard for why organ transplant teams have to move so quickly, even if the body is being kept alive.

...so, if the foregoing is true, it would be possible that the more delicate internal organs have been disintegrating.

I'm not clear on why the hospital is fighting so hard though. Seems like they could just let the parents pay for "care" and let things work themselves out. Were I a hospital administrator, the last thing I'd want is for these parents to blame my hospital -- so I'd want the parents to try all the freaky stuff they want, so that they can't accuse me of killing their kid when it all fails.
posted by aramaic at 7:26 AM on October 14, 2004

I'm not clear on why the hospital is fighting so hard though.

Because the hospital would be screwed, as well, if they didn't fight. If the doctors are correct, this kid is dead--physically, ethically dead. Imagine the press they'd get if the parents came back and sued the hospital for letting them take their dead son home with the hopes they could revive him with herbs and such. The hospital's in a no-win situation.

(So are the parents, mind you--their child has died and they're not taking it so well.)
posted by ChrisTN at 7:36 AM on October 14, 2004

After undergoing radiation, his parents opted to take the boy to a clinic that practices holistic therapy in Georgia, where he slipped into a coma and ended up in a Georgia hospital. His parents fought with doctors in Georgia and were threatened with potential neglect or abuse when they wanted to take him to Mexico for alternative treatment, they said. They later returned to Florida, where they said they got approval by a hospital to fly Jesse to a clinic in Tijuana, Mexico.
...

"I don't know what shape he was in before, but he is dead now," Maloney said.

why can't they just call one of them there snake picker uppers in?
posted by lilburne at 7:41 AM on October 14, 2004

Here we go again. Quite sad, actually, since it would seem that his parents may be responsible in part for their son's death. A friend of a friend of mine refused conventional cancer treatment for more than a decade due to her religious "beliefs" and died a long and very painful death. We all have to try to construct our own loves as best we can, but seeing suffering extended past the point of life is a form of self-torture.
posted by tranquileye at 7:56 AM on October 14, 2004

"We believe we can wake him up from the coma using vitamins, minerals, mineral baths"

When they say "mineral bath," I hope they mean a barrel of brine.
posted by Mayor Curley at 8:06 AM on October 14, 2004

There's no hope like false hope.
posted by skallas at 8:11 AM on October 14, 2004

There's no hope like false hope.

Truer words have rarely been spoken.
posted by aramaic at 9:11 AM on October 14, 2004

"We would like to care for Jesse in our home like any loving parents would,"

Let them. Disconnect life support and let the parents take the body^H^H^H^Hson home.
posted by rough ashlar at 9:17 AM on October 14, 2004

I'm not clear on why the hospital is fighting so hard though.

It's their job to keep someone dying alive. It's their job to properly care for a corpse when pronounced dead. It's their job to tell parents what they don't want to hear.

Not to be insensitive to the nature of the child's condition, but decaying tissue in the middle of a hospital isn't exactly the height of sanitary conditions, and I don't see how a hospital would be any more responsible saying it would be okay to just take the body so some people can drive it down to Mexico and drop it in magic brew. Especially since, according to the article, the boy slipped into the fatal coma in the first place right after the first attempt to ignore science and go the holistic route.

Imagine the press they'd get if the parents came back and sued the hospital for letting them take their dead son home with the hopes they could revive him with herbs and such.

I'm sure the Christian right-wingers demanding that the boy is still alive will turn to the conservative right-wingers to explain how the parents are horrible opportunists for trying to extract millions from the health care industry thus raising the rates for all hard-working Americans. Yup.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 9:37 AM on October 14, 2004

Let the parents do what they want.

If the boy is dead, nothing worse can happen.

I can't imagine the pain the parents are in over this. What a terrible situation.
posted by Argyle at 9:38 AM on October 14, 2004

this is what happens when our government refuses to base medicine and biology in science. i mean, for christ's sake, the kid is pronounced dead independently by two doctors, has a tumor the size of a grapefruit in his medulla, and is rotting. how obstinately blind can people be?

(and for the love of pete warn us if the linked page contains non-turn-offable sound files. the damn "stop" button didn't respond, and i had to mute my system. some of us are at work right now.)
posted by caution live frogs at 9:47 AM on October 14, 2004

In California it is illegal for anyone except the mortuary or medical examiner to remove a corpse from the hospital. It is probably illegal in most other states as well.
posted by whatever at 10:26 AM on October 14, 2004

Poor child. Poor deluded parents. And there's a special place in hell reserved for Mexican clinics which promise to cure the uncurable with 'Black salve protocols' and blue shark embryo cells.
posted by jokeefe at 11:34 AM on October 14, 2004

I can't help recalling the excruciating plumber sketch in Blue Jam 3/2, which satirises the potential craziness of those who won't let go (scroll down to "Distraught woman manages to bribe plumber").
posted by raygirvan at 11:52 AM on October 14, 2004

I can't help recalling the excruciating plumber sketch in Blue Jam 3/2...

Ick, the mere mention of that sketch makes my scalp creep. There is something very Chris Morrisesque about this situation though, what with the decomposition.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 11:56 AM on October 14, 2004

The word "decomposing" struck me too. I wonder how long a person can be on life support like that when they are dead before it really starts to get nasty.
posted by agregoli at 1:00 PM on October 14, 2004

I wonder how long a person can be on life support like that when they are dead before it really starts to get nasty.

The doctors said they expect his heart to stop sometime soon. The heart and lungs can't go on very long without a functioning brain stem; right now, his lung function is being supported by a respirator.

I wonder if the parents will demand he be hooked up to a heart-lung machine when his heart stops.
posted by mr_roboto at 1:36 PM on October 14, 2004

"We believe we can wake him up from the coma using vitamins, minerals, mineral baths" and other naturopathic treatments, Steve said. "They [Primary Children's] are sticklers about the rules, and won't let us provide the holistic care we want."

Exactly. The holistic care they want, not need. I wonder if there is something inside them, telling them the doctors are right. Maybe when they wake up and remind themselves what they need to do today, something flashes like a signal somewhere in their brain.

I really think Skallas said it best. There really is no hope like false hope. This is seriously a bad situation for everyone, and I feel for the parents involved. Unfortunately, this reads out like they are... ahem.... beating a dead horse.
posted by Keyser Soze at 2:37 PM on October 14, 2004

More information, including "The size of his tumor more than tripled since he was admitted and on Sunday, Jesse's brain stem was pushed down through the base of his skull", and "The boy's brain has started to liquefy".
posted by mr_crash_davis at 3:18 PM on October 14, 2004

mmm....liquid brain.
posted by troutfishing at 8:36 PM on October 14, 2004

.....clock ticks, time passes.
posted by troutfishing at 7:38 AM on October 16, 2004