But I've heard President Bush describe his record. His record doesn't match his record.

October 15, 2004 3:28 PM

STEWART: You know what's interesting, though? You're as big a dick on your show as you are on any show. Just one tiny bit of a very memorable Crossfire on CNN. Guest is of course, Jon Stewart, one bright spot in our media cesspool, even though they seem to be clueless that he's parodying them.
posted by amberglow (187 comments total)

I'll post a link to a torrent/video as soon as one is put online. The transcript says it all tho.
posted by amberglow at 3:32 PM on October 15, 2004

I saw that live and he was good.
posted by riffola at 3:36 PM on October 15, 2004

Wow. Is Stewart the only one who even tries anymore?

I wanna see the video.
posted by rushmc at 3:41 PM on October 15, 2004

Heh. Hee. Heeheehee. Hahahahaha.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Hm.

Anyway. Can't wait to see the clip.
posted by RakDaddy at 3:42 PM on October 15, 2004

I'm SO glad i left work early today--just unbelievable. Carlson really is such a dick--i'm glad someone finally told him on air (and that bowtie crack was hysterical.)

Daily kos has a big thread on it, and someone's trying to upload a torrent now.
posted by amberglow at 3:42 PM on October 15, 2004

I heard this on the radio, and regret not setting the TiVo to record the program. Hopefully the video will be online by the time I get home...
posted by Busithoth at 3:43 PM on October 15, 2004

Yeah, I watched it too, and I was literally cheering for Stewart. It was such a shock to hear him come on, and they had primed the audience for some goofy jokes about Bush, some material from his book, and then he just tore into them, and refused to talk about anything but how they were hacks, and shows like Crossfire were ruining the political discourse in this country. I was impressed by the sheer size of his balls, to just go on there and tell them off.

How fucked up is it that that is how we have to have analysis of our own media today. Not only is our most honest news program not really a news program, but the only guy on TV who wants to be serious about living up to journalistic responsibility isn't even a journalist.
posted by Hildago at 3:43 PM on October 15, 2004

Also: Jon's latest words on Robert Novak, that Douchebag for Liberty.

Hee.
posted by RakDaddy at 3:45 PM on October 15, 2004

Hildago, you nailed it. it's both saddening and enlightening to know that it takes Jon Stewart to get straight talk about politics. saddening for obvious reasons. enlightening because at least there's someone.
posted by NationalKato at 3:45 PM on October 15, 2004

It's big--98megs...i'll create a torrent if i can (or maybe someone else should--i never have before)
posted by amberglow at 3:47 PM on October 15, 2004

Thanks amberglow, this is one of the funniest things I've read in a while. Praying that the download actually completes :-)
posted by LukeyBoy at 3:47 PM on October 15, 2004

a torrent link will be posted here (the guy's server is being slammed)
posted by amberglow at 3:48 PM on October 15, 2004

PS -- having just read the transcript, it definitely does not do justice to how surprised Begala and Carlson were, how shocked the audience was, and how weirdly detached (but still obviously nervous) Stewart was. The overall tone was sort of similar to what happens when some streaker runs across the screen on a live show, when everybody sort of pauses and then spins their wheels for a minute, trying to regain traction.
posted by Hildago at 3:49 PM on October 15, 2004

Please DON'T DOWNLOAD! (none / 1)

don't try to download it !!!!! I'll have it up as bittorrent on one of my servers in 20 minutes, that's faster than everybody dowloading it now (bandwidth is already down).
I promise I'll not watch it before before I uploaded the torrent stream !

Be nice ! Share the Pie ! and don't kill the idiot's server who posted it as avi, he'll pay for it, in my case my clients will pay for it ;) . -- from that link
posted by amberglow at 3:51 PM on October 15, 2004

Stewart actually reminded me of how he was immediately after 9/11--sad and shocked and wanting to talk.
posted by amberglow at 3:52 PM on October 15, 2004

When does Crosstalk repeat? Anyone know?
posted by geoff. at 3:55 PM on October 15, 2004

Great Grade School exchange for those who can't view the link right now:
STEWART: You know, the interesting thing I have is, you have a responsibility to the public discourse, and you fail miserably.
CARLSON: You need to get a job at a journalism school, I think.
STEWART: You need to go to one
Ouch. That will leave marks for weeks.
posted by TomSophieIvy at 3:56 PM on October 15, 2004

Ha! Crossfire... Freud and his slips.
posted by geoff. at 3:56 PM on October 15, 2004

CNN doesn't repeat it at all, unfortunately.

It really is must-see TV. I'll post the torrent here as soon as it's up. : >

(God bless Stewart--he made my week.)
posted by amberglow at 3:56 PM on October 15, 2004

Man, I've gotta get home and read this in front of my shrine to Jon Stewart! I bet my statue will cry with joy!

Its an incredibly telling commentary that more and more people watch the fake news and come away better informed than they do when they watch the "real" news.

PS Jon Stewart's son and my son were born on the same day, July 3rd, that makes them like birth brothers or something.
posted by fenriq at 3:57 PM on October 15, 2004

bittorrent link
posted by RylandDotNet at 3:59 PM on October 15, 2004

Here's the Le Torrent. I'm downloading now, I cannot verify if it's any good or not.
posted by geoff. at 3:59 PM on October 15, 2004

Jinx!
posted by geoff. at 3:59 PM on October 15, 2004

STEWART: Here's just what I wanted to tell you guys.

CARLSON: Yes.

STEWART: Stop.

(LAUGHTER)

STEWART: Stop, stop, stop, stop hurting America.

BEGALA: OK. Now

(CROSSTALK)

STEWART: And come work for us, because we, as the people...

CARLSON: How do you pay?

STEWART: The people -- not well.

(LAUGHTER)

BEGALA: Better than CNN, I'm sure.

STEWART: But you can sleep at night.
posted by Peter H at 4:00 PM on October 15, 2004

thanks! there's also links to it here
posted by amberglow at 4:01 PM on October 15, 2004

CARLSON: And I'll tell you.

When politicians come on...

STEWART: Yes.

CARLSON: It's nice to get them to try and answer the question. And in order to do that, we try and ask them pointed questions. I want to contrast our questions with some questions you asked John Kerry recently.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: ... up on the screen.

STEWART: If you want to compare your show to a comedy show, you're more than welcome to.
posted by Peter H at 4:02 PM on October 15, 2004

See, much as I love Jon Stewart, he can live up to journalistic responsibility because he is not a journalist. If he were a journalist, it's likely he'd have been fired long ago. That he can yell 'I'm a comedian, I was only kidding! Not in the face!' affords him a lot of safety real journalists don't have. It's a fuzzy thing though, because while he's shrugging off the accusations that he was easy on Kerry, I think he really did puss out during that interview. It's odd to think that the host of a comedy show wasn't being tough enough on their guest, when guests on this type of show usually get fawned over, not interrogated. Certainly we wouldn't expect Leno or Letterman to ask anything remotely challenging.

I really don't think he knows what to do with this concept of integrity that's been thrust upon him. On the one hand he plays it for what it's worth, but sometimes he seems absolutely terrified by the influence he realises he wields, and stops short.
posted by picea at 4:13 PM on October 15, 2004

From the very first line of the story:

To their credit, once they found out Cat Stevens, who is of Islam, was on the plane, they immediately called out the Air Force and had the plane followed by a (INAUDIBLE)

Christ. MOON SHADOW. I mean, if you were the CNN transcriptionist (is that a word?) wouldn't you know that was the punch line, even if it was slightly inaudible?
posted by yhbc at 4:23 PM on October 15, 2004

I'm sorry - I'll go read the rest of it now, that just pissed me off.
posted by yhbc at 4:24 PM on October 15, 2004

Not to derail, but, Good gravy, I dig Bit Torrent technology. Granted, it's a pain in the ass to upload a torrent file right now, I think projects like Blog Torrent will make it easier for mere mortals to upload porn fevered media egos getting punctured porn.
posted by RakDaddy at 4:25 PM on October 15, 2004

I love Stewart and also agree with picea's points: he (Stewart) certainly does use the "it's just comedy!" at really convenient points (when it's clearly and inarguably not).
posted by xmutex at 4:25 PM on October 15, 2004

Picea, you're right, both that he gets to cop out on it while still having credibility, and that he did softball John Kerry. Whether he likes it or not, whether he accepts the burden or not, he's the source of information for millions of stoned slackers across the country. Him passing the buck is sort of like a rock star star or athlete saying they never signed up to be a role-model. Well, turns out you are, so accept it.

I don't know, it's tough to say. It's a comedy show, but they do engage in political analysis. They don't pretend to report only the facts, yet they do take care to make the jokes clear enough that you can separate them from the basic outline of the news story. And a lot of people trust them. Very sticky.
posted by Hildago at 4:27 PM on October 15, 2004

I donwloaded the original, generated a torrent file, and can email it to someone who will upload it or do whatever needs to be done next--use my gmail...
posted by amberglow at 4:27 PM on October 15, 2004

I really don't think he knows what to do with this concept of integrity that's been thrust upon him. On the one hand he plays it for what it's worth, but sometimes he seems absolutely terrified by the influence he realises he wields, and stops short.

I think it's a matter that when comedians have been recognized for their truth-discerning/bullshit-cutting abilities before -- Lenny Bruce, Bill Hicks, etc. -- they played to small, disaffected audiences. (Or to uncomprehending, angry audiences, as several Hicks CDs can attest to...) Stewart's platform is huge, and it's not a comfortable situation. It also helps that his particular style is non-confrontational and underplayed.

He's not a radical -- certainly nothing in his early career really prepared him for this role -- and it's the circumstances that he's in that have forced him to take on this role. Certainly, when Craig Kilborn was hosting the Daily Show, the national discourse and the media weren't as openly shameless as they have been since...well, 2000, and especially after 9/11.

He has to keep the "I'm just a funny guy" shield up, because the circumstances of the world have made it so that if he drops the shield at any point, he's meat on a stick. You already have the wingnuts who are ready to eat him alive, and I think the deal is that if he dares drop the shield, he'll be ejected, destroyed. I'm amazed he's actually come this far, being as pointed about his corporate masters as he is.

I think he is also geniunely shocked and disbelieving that he, a fairly decent comedian who had one failed MTV show and several roles in low-budget movies, is now the only one in the media gang-bang that seems genuinely concerned about the state of democratic discourse. It's no act. He really can't believe that no one else is taking this seriously at all.

It's a precarious balance, and if he oversteps, he's toast. You only get to mock so much before the CEOs take offense.
posted by solistrato at 4:27 PM on October 15, 2004

Well, I downloaded it, and when I get home I'll seed it and put it on eDonkey as well. that was pretty quick.
posted by Busithoth at 4:30 PM on October 15, 2004

I saw it live and was amazed - I've only seen anything like this once in my life, must have been twelve years ago, on the Today Show, when Katie Couric interviewed Bobcat Goldthwait next to an angry clown who claimed that "Shakes the Clown" was hurting children and Bobcat just wasn't having any. ("Katie, how did you get stuck doing this - what, were you the last one into the office this morning?")

But this was even better. The sense that a serious person had entered the forum to tell these idiots that they are only pretending to be journalists was delicious. It really was a "mad as hell and not going to take it anymore" moment - and I hope that Stewart's on some other shows soon, or that his is new tonight, to follow up. The Daily Show writers are going to have a field day with this - I wonder if they were in on it.
posted by nicwolff at 4:33 PM on October 15, 2004

or, Mr. Stewart goes to Washington
posted by milovoo at 4:34 PM on October 15, 2004

One of the best parts of this is how right before Stewart comes on, Carlson and Begala are engaged in just the sort of crap that Stewart calls them on: the silly back and forth over Winona LaDuke.
posted by pitchblende at 4:37 PM on October 15, 2004

Ah! Salon's War Room already has a piece on it up. (watch ad for free daypass)
posted by amberglow at 4:43 PM on October 15, 2004

Hildago, nice, nice work characterizing The Daily Show audience so well - he's the source of information for millions of stoned slackers across the country.

Did you totally miss this post the other day comparing O'Reilly's audience to The Daily Show's?

Maybe don't make such stupid and easily refuted generalizations?
posted by fenriq at 4:48 PM on October 15, 2004

Welp, crossfire does suck.
posted by delmoi at 4:48 PM on October 15, 2004

I would like to suggest that if you want the torrent to go quick, bite the bullet and grab the compressed version...I hit almost 200Kb/s vs 4Kb/s on the larger file...YMMV of course.

Oh yeah, Jon totally rules. Quite the fanboy, I am.
posted by Richat at 4:57 PM on October 15, 2004

Maybe don't make such stupid and easily refuted generalizations?

That really doesn't refute what Hidalgo said. There are millions of successful professionals with degrees that come home at night and switch to "stoned slacker" mode.
posted by TungstenChef at 5:01 PM on October 15, 2004

Tungsten Chef, calling all of a show's audience stoned slackers is a ridiculous thing to say. Especially since it was just discussed at length here on this site and there's plenty of evidence to the contrary that Daily Show watchers are pretty educated and intelligent people, NOT stoned slackers.

If Hildago had said "stoned slacker mode" that would be one thing. But he didn't. He called them all stoned slackers and that's just incorrect.

Care to reconcile how a successful professional becomes a stoned slacker when they get home? And no, don't say that they sit down and spark up a big old joint. A stoned slacker isn't a part time slacker, that's what they do, they slack. Successful professionals may relax on occasion but slacking will usually result in them losing their jobs.
posted by fenriq at 5:07 PM on October 15, 2004

I saw it with the sound off at the gym...people were stopped and looking up at the TV with their mouths open!

I'm disappointed the "dick" comment is missing from the transcript.
posted by JoanArkham at 5:10 PM on October 15, 2004

i love it when the wheels come of on live tv. god, its almost seems like real life then.
posted by Hackworth at 5:15 PM on October 15, 2004

Joan, it was there when i posted this--they scrubbed it--assholes.
posted by amberglow at 5:19 PM on October 15, 2004

'Today, Crossfire is special. We only have one guest, Jon Stewart of the Daily Show...'

special indeed.

that'll teach them to stray from the formula.
posted by Busithoth at 5:21 PM on October 15, 2004

i used to have respect for tucker carlson, bow-tie and all: he was someone from the other side of the aisle that i figured it would be a blast to hang out with and discuss not just politics, but sports, movies, etc, even though we'd disagree on just about everything. now that he, like far too many other erudite conservatives, has shown himself to be just another "i will squat and pee for the alpha male and lick his face submissively" republican, i pretty much have no respect for him.

i can't believe stewart did this. he may be a marked man after today. btw, what's with the (crosstalk) that keeps showing up in the transcript? what does that indicate?
posted by lord_wolf at 5:25 PM on October 15, 2004

crosstalk is when everyone is talking at once, over each other (sometimes shouting), and the transcriber (the machine?) can't catch it.
posted by amberglow at 5:28 PM on October 15, 2004

Carlson and Begala expected a standard pet on display book promotion appearance but major kudos to JS for using the opportunity to try and say something meaningful.
posted by billsaysthis at 5:28 PM on October 15, 2004

Tungsten Chef, calling all of a show's audience stoned slackers is a ridiculous thing to say.

I had assumed Hildago was using the phrase ironically.

Especially since it was just discussed at length here on this site

Well, look at that. Guess that validates my assumption, and in the very thread you allude to!

what's with the (crosstalk) that keeps showing up in the transcript? what does that indicate?

I think it means two or more people talking at once, and thus not transcribed.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 5:28 PM on October 15, 2004

Did anyone else notice that nowhere in that transcript, or on CNN at all has been the actual news that Karl Rove testified in the Plame Case today?
posted by amberglow at 5:31 PM on October 15, 2004

The Daily Show's still not fu... oh, forget it.
posted by reklaw at 5:32 PM on October 15, 2004

Leonard is mirroring the videos here, no BitTorrent necessary. Very fast server, get 'em while you can.
posted by waxpancake at 5:32 PM on October 15, 2004

I'm pulling down the compressed bit torrent at about 28K/s. Bit torrent has just proven to be terribly useful as I only heard about the show after it had broadcast and CNN doesn't play it at any other times. This is probably the only way I can see it - thanks amberglow!

Jon Stewart is only safe as long as he criticizes the media. The second he comes off as sounding too partisan, he's toast. After all, he does seem to genuinely like John McCain and he seemed appropriately resepctful towards with Mark Racicot and Ken Mehlman. It seems as if he only wants people who can level with him - it's OK if they are partisan, but they have to be able to work off the script. The time he tore apart that Texas representative (Bonilla?) was one of the most painful things I've ever seen on television. His lack of patience with Jennifer Love Hewit was also classic.

I've been longing for someone to tell Tucker what I think of his bowtie. Thank you John Stewart for giving voice to my peevishness.
posted by rks404 at 5:39 PM on October 15, 2004

That was unbelievably, staggeringly good. It was like watching something that was supposed to be censored, but mistakenly got through.

I've been "off" the Daily Show for quite a while - his interviews have sucked - but this suggests to me that he needs two shows, rather than none... one to satirize mainstream news outlets, and one to show them how to do their job.
posted by stonerose at 5:49 PM on October 15, 2004

Thank you, amberglow. You're now officially my second favourite Mefite. I would not have watched this if it weren't for your post. I'd actually given up on John Stewart for interviewing Paula Zahn, Anderson Cooper, and a host of other nitwits. I thought he'd lost his teeth. This was one of the most honest, courageous interviews I have seen. I really agree with Stewart. The problem isn't our politicians, it's our crappy expections of them, our un-willingness to hold their feet to the fire.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 5:50 PM on October 15, 2004

Hildago, nice, nice work characterizing The Daily Show audience so well - he's the source of information for millions of stoned slackers across the country.

Did you totally miss this post the other day comparing O'Reilly's audience to The Daily Show's?

He posted multiple times in that thread. Do you really think he missed it? (Maybe you didn't read the whole discussion.)

Quite clearly he is joking here, in the same way that Jon Stewart has done with his audience on his show. Jon Stewart knows the audience is smart and well-educated, and so does Hildago.
posted by Edge100x at 5:50 PM on October 15, 2004

I mirrored the windows media video here too
posted by mathowie at 5:52 PM on October 15, 2004

Can someone with more tech aptitude than me please seed this to http://www.tvtorrents.net/? It needs to be widely disseminated.
posted by stonerose at 5:53 PM on October 15, 2004

I'm so gay for Jon Stewart.
posted by keswick at 5:58 PM on October 15, 2004

reklaw - yes it is!

/most ridiculous argument ever
posted by iamck at 6:01 PM on October 15, 2004

*blushes, decides he's willing to be an amazing medical miracle and have Stewart's baby*

doesn't it rock? spread it around, and let people know about it. : >
posted by amberglow at 6:07 PM on October 15, 2004

That was awesome.
posted by The God Complex at 6:07 PM on October 15, 2004

I loved when he called them hacks.
posted by The God Complex at 6:10 PM on October 15, 2004

I agree with picea and others that Stewart often backs off when he has the chance to pounce; he hides behind the comedian label and lobs softballs at prominent figures.

Nevertheless, I'm not convinced that making fun of the poor job the media does must lead to doing the media's job for them. Stonerose is right - he'd need two shows. But then by doing the media's job, Stewart would lose the ability make fun of the media, cause he would, ya know, be the media.
posted by junkbox at 6:10 PM on October 15, 2004

fenriq:

It's called a sense of humor, look into it. Hildago was making a refrence to an event in the past that most of found humor in at the time, which triggers those fellings again. He isn't calling the daily show audience "stoned slackers" he's making fun of Bill O'Riley.


i used to have respect for tucker carlson, bow-tie and all: he was someone from the other side of the aisle that i figured it would be a blast to hang out with and discuss not just politics, but sports, movies, etc, even though we'd disagree on just about everything. now that he, like far too many other erudite conservatives, has shown himself to be just another "i will squat and pee for the alpha male and lick his face submissively" republican, i pretty much have no respect for him.

Is he? From what I've seen on Crossfire lately, he hasn't really said much about bush, just trashed John Kerry. He (tucker) is the one that broke the story about Bush mocking a deth-row inmate who'd found jesus and wanted her life ("Please don't kill me"). He's made some very pointed critiques of Bush in the past, in fact, and even said that he would not vote for him. Not on crossfire, but in essays and whatnot.

Stewart is exactly right when he claims that Crossfire is theater. It is and Carlson is playing a role, and that more then anything makes him a hack.

-----

My respect for Stewart went up immensely watching this. It was great. But there is one major criticism. Stewart can't keep claming he's "just a comedian" while chastising others about what he does. Yes, he's honest about what he's doing, while the Crossfire people claim that they are doing debate when they're really doing "pro wrestling".


I think Stewart has it has it right. If someone isn't willing to really debate, lob some softballs and try to make it entertaining. Ed Gilispie, the head of the RNC was on the Daily Show, and the two just joked around
posted by delmoi at 6:11 PM on October 15, 2004

I made a torrent too, but don't know how to get it listed anywhere...i'll email it to whoever wants it/or to get it listed.
posted by amberglow at 6:12 PM on October 15, 2004

What's with the Bells? I haven't watched Crossfire in like 10 years. Do the bells signal anything, or are angels just getting their wings or something?
posted by willnot at 6:17 PM on October 15, 2004

it's the rapid-fire round--they only have like a minute or something for each topic.
posted by amberglow at 6:26 PM on October 15, 2004

I'd actually given up on John Stewart for interviewing Paula Zahn, Anderson Cooper, and a host of other nitwits.
I think CNN has been pushing his show to put CNN people on (like when NBC stars appear on the Today show), since his ratings are better than all of theirs.

I always wonder about that--When he has media people as guests on his show, do they not know that the whole show is about making fun of them and how they operate as much as it is about the news of the day?
posted by amberglow at 6:32 PM on October 15, 2004

I don't like to watch the "debate" shows on any of the networks, because they're not debates, they're people trying to shout their talking points over someone else's talking points. At last, someone has attempted to convey that to the boneheads who do that sort of shit for a living, and I can sleep tonight knowing that I have found a kindred soul.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:40 PM on October 15, 2004

Delmoi, et al, if Hildago's comment was a joke, it wasn't funny and I resent being stereotyped like that. That's all.
posted by fenriq at 6:47 PM on October 15, 2004

I think Stewart does, to some extent, use the "I'm a comedian" excuse when confronted with lovey interviews such as the Kerry one. Bill Clinton's appearance on the show a few months ago was also mostly a massage. But the reason these softball interviews stand out is that we've come to expect so much more from the Daily Show.

In a way, Stewart is the anti-O'Reilly. He understands that he's an entertainer; he's under no illusions, as O'Reilly is, that he's a serious journalist, yet Stewart's program does more to shed light on the absurdities and hypocrisies of modern politics than any other program on TV right now.
posted by Ty Webb at 6:47 PM on October 15, 2004

I want to double post this...
posted by srboisvert at 6:51 PM on October 15, 2004

"You're doing theater when you should be doing debate. What you do is partisan hackery." .... "I thought you were going to be funny. C'mon be funny...Is this really Jon Stewart?" "It's someone who watches your show and can't take it anymore." He's relentless until the end. Fantastic.
posted by fionab at 7:04 PM on October 15, 2004

Dammit, the one day I'm busy on deadline and can't turn the TV on in my office... grrrrrr. Thanks very much to the folks who put it on BitTorrent.
posted by MegoSteve at 7:09 PM on October 15, 2004

That Stewart hadn't even heard the "Bush wore a wire" conspiracy theory made me like him even more, but I also enjoyed how quickly it was dismissed by Begala as the embarassing, counterproductive & mind-erasingly stupid speculation that it is, putting him several IQ points above some of our more gullible MeFites.
posted by dhoyt at 7:09 PM on October 15, 2004

Delmoi, et al, if Hildago's comment was a joke, it wasn't funny and I resent being stereotyped like that. That's all.

Yes, but couldn't you have just shrugged it off, instead of getting indignant and insulting me? I understand that you didn't get the joke, and that's fine, but now that it's been explained to you, you must by now realize you weren't actually being stereotyped, right?
posted by Hildago at 7:11 PM on October 15, 2004

MTV pipes up with a quick article: "While the audience seemed to be behind Stewart, Begala and Carlson were both taken aback. The hosts tried to feed Stewart set-up lines hoping to draw him into a more light-hearted shtick, but Stewart stayed on point and hammered away at the show, the hosts, and the state of political journalism. "
posted by fionab at 7:13 PM on October 15, 2004

Does anyone remember this recent quote,

"Tucker Carlson is a smug little homunculus" ?
posted by troutfishing at 7:21 PM on October 15, 2004

I made a torrent too, but don't know how to get it listed anywhere

Don't. Point people to the original. The whole idea of p2p dissemination is that you have the maximum number of people sharing -- in this case, the maximum number of peers on a given torrent.

That said, I'll be seeding the bitflood torrent all day, with massive upstream bandwidth. Go nuts.

Delmoi, et al, if Hildago's comment was a joke, it wasn't funny and I resent being stereotyped like that. That's all.

It was funny, and understatedly so. Sorry -- survey says you're a big dumbhead.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:34 PM on October 15, 2004

from Bill Moyer's interview with Stewart on PBS:
MOYERS: Which is funnier? CROSSFIRE or HARDBALL?

STEWART: CROSSFIRE or HARDBALL? Which is funnier? Which is more soul-crushing, do you mean? Both are equally dispiriting in their… you know, the whole idea that political discourse has degenerated into shows that have to be entitled CROSSFIRE and HARDBALL. And you know, "I'm Gonna Beat Your Ass" or whatever they're calling them these days is mind-boggling.

CROSSFIRE, especially, is completely an apropos name. It's what innocent bystanders are caught in when gangs are fighting. And it just boggles my mind that that's given a half hour, an hour a day to… I don't understand how issues can be dissected from the left and from the right as though… even cartoon characters have more than left and right. They have up and down.

I mean, how... it's so two-dimensional to think that any analysis can come from, "It's the left and it's the right and well, we've had that discussion and that's done."

And what is PBS thinking giving Carlson his own show there?(which is on right now here in NYC) Do they think because he wears a bowtie he'll appeal?
posted by amberglow at 7:38 PM on October 15, 2004

Hildago ( i think) wrote that Stewart was "weirdly detached." That's putting it lightly. It looked like he had an attack of conscience. It looked like he wanted to either yell or cry. Maybe he was ready for the jokes, pimping the books, etc and remembered that this show was going to play out with one guy giving out the DNC talking points, the other guy giving the RNC talking points, and Stewart was expected to make jokes about both. Like he said, he didn't want to be their monkey so he went into Neil Postman mode and attacked them on their newstainment bullshit.

I mean, Carlson is the guy who said this about Edwards: he (Edwards) was a personal-injury lawyer specializing in Jacuzzi cases.". He knew full fucking well Edwards did a class action for a pool pump which was used in pools and hurt kids. It was all too fake for Stewart so he just spent this invaluable time attacking the system. Any sane person would have done the same.

You can watch it at ifilm.com right now. No torrents required.
posted by skallas at 7:38 PM on October 15, 2004

Best. Episode. Ever.
posted by boost ventilator at 7:45 PM on October 15, 2004

iFilm link
posted by Fofer at 7:49 PM on October 15, 2004

Another mirror
posted by dhoyt at 7:51 PM on October 15, 2004

"Tucker Carlson is a smug little homunculus" ?

I resent that.
posted by homunculus at 7:52 PM on October 15, 2004

Aw, snap.

Jesus, did Bill Hick's soul somehow transfer into Jon Stewart's body in 1994?

I don't think I've seen him ever openly provoke the wrath of The Spectacle before... and you know what? I like it.
posted by Coda at 7:59 PM on October 15, 2004

"BEGALA: No, actually, I knew Bush in Texas a little bit. And the truth is, he's actually a great guy. He's not a very good president. But he's actually a very good person. I don't think you should have to hate to oppose somebody, but it makes it easier."

As much as I dislike Bush's politics, I can go along with this. Let's all agree that Bush is a 'nice guy'. Let's make him the Republican Jimmy Carter. One crappy term then he can turn his life around and do wonderful things for the country.
posted by m@ at 8:00 PM on October 15, 2004

Salon article: "He accomplished what almost never happens on television anymore: He made the dots come alive."
posted by fionab at 8:10 PM on October 15, 2004

I was amazed by how plaintitive Jon Stewart was. He could've gone on the show with the "I'm mad as hell" attitude, especially given Carlson's response to practically everything he said.

He just kept repeating the same basic point: guys, be journalists again. Please. He was begging, pleading with them, to just for once get it.

The thing that really struck me was, how quiet Begala was through the whole thing. Too bad more of his reaction wasn't caught on camera; it'd have been interesting to see it.
posted by Yelling At Nothing at 8:18 PM on October 15, 2004

h - please understand, you can't redefine homunculus in such a short time. You're reforming a pejorative term, OK.
posted by troutfishing at 8:24 PM on October 15, 2004

I think both Begala and Carlson are well aware of what they do, and that it's not journalism of any kind. I think their paychecks make them not really care that much, or else they say, "but look at all the real reporting that does go on at CNN--we're a diversion--a nice break from serious news."
posted by amberglow at 8:25 PM on October 15, 2004

in stewart/bittorrent related matters does anyone have a source for the daily show's coverage on the last two debates? i've checked that astronomy-related name place and yotoshi and btbot but with no luck. there seems to be be no dedicated release group for the daily show but two for "joey".
posted by noisia at 8:26 PM on October 15, 2004

Stewart's a pretty good Green Lantern.
Not as great as G'nort, but pretty good.
posted by Trik at 8:33 PM on October 15, 2004

great post. wouldn't have seen the crossfire thing otherwise, as i've never watched it... but jon stewart is the man! now to find the video
posted by jcruelty at 8:35 PM on October 15, 2004

noisia: It's absolutely infuriating what gets encoded and what doesn't. It's an awful state of affairs when getting 'Pimp My Ride' and 'Who's The Boss' episodes to the masses takes precedence over Conan O'Brien, The Daily Show, and the debates.
posted by bunnytricks at 8:43 PM on October 15, 2004

STEWART: I had always thought, in a democracy -- and, again, I don't know -- I've only lived in this country -- that there's a process. They call them primaries.

I love this guy.
posted by mmahaffie at 8:43 PM on October 15, 2004

>and that it's not journalism of any kind.

Exactly. What's that old saying? Don't break the fourth wall?

I mean, imagine a scenario where you, or some other political junkie mefite, wrote a book and was booked on one of these shows. Would you stick to your guns about media failure or would you just smile and give your talking points and play the game? Of course we would do the latter. At that point it becomes your job.

Stewart on the other hand doesnt need Crossfire to sell his book or his show. Every so often someone takes a moral stand and it hits us like a bag of bricks to the groin.
posted by skallas at 8:44 PM on October 15, 2004

Media Matters has the transcript and links to WMV and MPEG files

yup skallas--aint it great? : >
posted by amberglow at 8:46 PM on October 15, 2004

Jon Stewart did say (on Charlie Rose, I think) he was disappointed with his Kerry interview. So it's not like he hasn't admitted it in the past, he just "didn't want to be their monkey".

The interview part of the Daily Show is their weakest segment anyway, that's why I usually watch only the first 20 minutes.

Btw, thanks amberglow.
posted by Devils Slide at 8:49 PM on October 15, 2004

Yeah, Thanks Amberglow. I've been watching the WMV(after reading the transcript) and this is great! This is a moment, isn't it?
posted by mmahaffie at 8:52 PM on October 15, 2004

my good deed for the day (or week, or month...) : >
posted by amberglow at 8:54 PM on October 15, 2004

amberglow gets the shoulder ride (à la Buddy Ryan) out of the stadium for this.

Man I wished I had seen this. If this was embarassing for Fucker Carlson and Paul Begala as it read to be, it must have been something.
posted by psmealey at 9:01 PM on October 15, 2004

That was amazing. Absolutely amazing. The transcript doesn't do it justice. Yep, danka, Amberglow.
posted by lilboo at 9:02 PM on October 15, 2004

boy, i feel like Susan Lucci.

this is interesting: Stewart on Bob Novak (Daily News)
... "Novak apparently broke his hip. I think that's not the case," Stewart said under questioning from Ken Auletta. "I think his hip tried to escape."

Piling on, Stewart continued: "I would not have him on the show. I have standards. I wouldn't do it. He shouldn't be on television. CNN should not have him on the air. He should not be amongst civilized people."
posted by amberglow at 9:06 PM on October 15, 2004

It's all over Wonkette now too, with snotty comments from Bowtie Boy.
posted by amberglow at 9:12 PM on October 15, 2004

Thanks Amberglow!

An yes, I think it's about the paychecks . . . a lot of people in this society do a lot of crumby things, and very often it's about the paycheck.
posted by ahimsakid at 9:19 PM on October 15, 2004

It's not an excuse. It's not something Stewart should stop doing. Stewart is not hiding behind some mysterious shield called "comedian." In order to understand what Stewart's doing in this Crossfire thing, how he's standing so precarious between being serious and being funny and being astute and intelligent while still dancing the seven veils of seltzer water, you have to know where comedy originates. Where jesting originates. I know it particularly from historical evidence we find in feudal Europe, but there's also indications this happened in ancient Egypt and among Aztec societies. You have the aristocracy, or a pharoh or king or other kind of dictatorial rulership, and no matter how rich and powerful you are, you wanna laugh, and you wanna hear people talking about you, because you're so full of yourself, and if you can find someone who will do both, then you got something. That something, was known as The Court Jester.

John Stewart is simply echoing that ancient and solemn tradition of pointing at the emperor and telling him he's wearing no clothes. In the modern variant of this metaphor, the king is corporate America. John knows where his bread is really buttered: the ratings (in theory) depict the common folk who actually pay for cable television every month by paying their cable bill. When he says Crossfire and other shows like it are hurting America, he's saying that corporate entities are influencing partisan 'news' programming, at the expense of the working class. This is an age old argument that jesters had with kings, and so long as you could keep the king laughing too hard to call for the guards to take you away to the dungeon, you kept your job.

Stewart's doing his job and doing it well. He's sooo not the problem here. John Stewart (backed up by a tremendous team of writers and engineers and an army of intelligent people behind the Daily Show) is perhaps one of the greatest jesters of modern day, and anyone claiming he should change his tune or start literally showing them how it's done -- true journalists know how to do their job right just as true leaders know how to properly lead. All any clown does is show the kinks in the armor and the flaws in the designs of great men.

You can either kill the messenger, or take the constructive criticism and fix what's broken. It's as simple as that.
posted by ZachsMind at 9:19 PM on October 15, 2004

It's all over Wonkette now too

Must... resist... tasteless... joke....
posted by keswick at 9:32 PM on October 15, 2004

Hate to intrude on this Stewart love fest, but I just wish he would have had the balls to stand up to Bush when it wasn't so trendy. He gave him a pass early on when we needed his scrutiny most. Don't be comparing him to Hicks.
posted by RavinDave at 9:32 PM on October 15, 2004

It's true, Ravin, but he woke up earlier than everyone else on tv, i think. For a while after 9/11, i couldn't watch--he refused to hit.
posted by amberglow at 9:34 PM on October 15, 2004

when we needed his scrutiny most

I'll give him a pass on that too, Dave. So few other others were this engaged at that point. We were all hoping that Bush was as he advertised himself (compassionate and conservative). Unfortunately, we should have trusted our better judgment.
posted by psmealey at 9:40 PM on October 15, 2004

"I just wish [Stewart] would have had the balls to stand up to Bush when it wasn't so trendy..."

It's not John Stewart's job to stand up to Bush or Kerry or any one particular -- oh this is so frustrating! It's like trying to describe a dumb blonde joke to an authentic dumb blonde (as opposed to nondumb blondes and yes I know they are out there don't git offended geez!).

I love how the guys on Crossfire thought The Daily Show is poking fun at just the politicians. Apparently some people in this forum think the same thing. When they asked Stewart if he thought the Kerry administration would be harder or easier to make fun of than the present one, they proved themselves to completely misunderstand where John Stewart and the people who make him look good are coming from.

They completely miss out on the fact that The Daily Show is a parody of everything from CBS's Sixty Minutes to ABC's 20/20 to NBC's Today Show to every pobunk local affiliate's ten o'clock news shows to of course CNN's Crossfire. The show has since before John Stewart got on board been a distorted Wonderlandesque mirror of the inanity that passes for journalism today. It's just that back when Craig Kilborn was on board, he was too busy being full of himself to do his job properly. John Stewart hasn't the ego to bruise that Kilborn did. Stewart understands how comedy works on the Daily Show just as a plumber understands how to make a toilet flush. It's intrinsic to him. He groks it on the quantum.

Since the feeding frenzy over JFKs death, when technology and the public's thirst for up to the minute information (factual or fantastic) first caught up with each other, journalism has gotten more yellow and more impossible to believe, yet most people take it at face value anyway. Since BEFORE JFK's death, because the movie Citizen Kane is all about Orson Welles taking the position that John Stewart took on Crossfire, pointing at the powerful newspaper tycoon and telling him his pants were down, and Hurst responded by ruining Kane's career. You either kill the messenger or fix it, and fixing it means admitting you are imperfect, so most people just kill the messenger, or send the jester to the gallows. It's sad really. A sad predictable plot that's played over and over throughout history and here it's happening again. John Stewart's setting himself up to the place where metaphorically Biff Tannen starts shooting at his feet yelling "Dance McFly Dance!"

Those bastards on Crossfire wanted John Stewart to dance and sing and entertain their audience for a half hour. How dare he show them what they looked like in the mirror. How dare he point out their inadequacies and absurdities, but John knew his audience wasn't those two guys, but the people behind that camera. So point he did. And we should be thankful that someone out there is.

The whole alleged Fourth Branch of government, the unblinking eye: today's narcisistic news media appears (in this particular altercation we're addressing) to not only lack humor, but be totally blind to it.

"We were all hoping that Bush was as he advertised himself.."

And another thing: the next time a politician comes up with some cockamamie crapola phrase like "compassionate conservative" and you find yourself buying it, think to yourself, just what the hell does "new and improved" mean when it's on a box of laundry detergent? New and improved what? Don't believe the hype and quit letting yourselves be fooled. Please. Just stop. You're hurting America too and my sides ache from all the laughter. You're killing me. Stop. stop. stop stop stop..
posted by ZachsMind at 9:55 PM on October 15, 2004

I just wish he would have had the balls to stand up to Bush when it wasn't so trendy.

Agreed. And yet if he had, there would be no more The Daily Show with Jon Stewart on the air today, and you know it as well as I do. Hooray for self-preservation.
posted by junkbox at 9:57 PM on October 15, 2004

Wow, that was some of the most exciting television I've seen in recent memory. I loved Jon Stewart before this, but he's totally my hero now.

I'll say this for Tucker Carlson, though, by the end he looked almost admiring.
posted by biscotti at 9:59 PM on October 15, 2004

Hi, I have nothing to say. I just want to add to the comments in this thread.

(188k on the full size crossfire download)
posted by Keyser Soze at 10:01 PM on October 15, 2004

Let's all agree that Bush is a 'nice guy'.

Sorry, not in this lifetime.

Of course we would do the latter. At that point it becomes your job.

I disagree that everyone is willing to whore for their job. Granted, a great many are.

Stewart on the other hand doesnt need Crossfire to sell his book or his show.

The funny thing is, of course, that in not selling out to sell, he sold more.

we should have trusted our better judgment.

Let's not rewrite history, eh? Some of us did.
posted by rushmc at 10:07 PM on October 15, 2004

Thanks amberglow and Torrenters! That was the most entertaining bit of TV I've seen in years.
posted by shoepal at 10:12 PM on October 15, 2004

I just hoping that this means Crossfire won't be returning on Monday. Or ever.
posted by tapeguy at 10:12 PM on October 15, 2004

I just hoping that this means Crossfire won't be returning on Monday. Or ever.

it wouldn't really make a difference--most of CNN is very much like that show, but with an anchor feeding RNC talking points and prompts--as if they're questions about legitimate news items--to a person on the left and a person on the right. Sometimes they don't even bother with the person on the left. Aaron Brown and sometimes Lou Dobbs are the only things not always following that format, i find.
posted by amberglow at 10:16 PM on October 15, 2004

i downloaded the uncompressed video in about 3 minutes, so thank you andy baio. btw, AWESOME
posted by bob sarabia at 10:19 PM on October 15, 2004

Two things: One, hooray for ZachsMind using Back To The Future III in a socio-political-historial-ish context.

And two, as sharp as Stewart is in this clip, he's still genuinely funny here. I'm impressed.
posted by kevspace at 10:21 PM on October 15, 2004

When he has media people as guests on his show, do they not know that the whole show is about making fun of them and how they operate as much as it is about the news of the day?

Most of the media people he has on TDS are just as frustrated by these types of shows as he is. These stupid shouting matches win higher ratings than most other news programming, and with the market completely oversaturated, the networks need the money to stay afloat. Call it the JerrySpringerization of political reporting--maybe it'll go away when joe sixpack finally gets tired of the formula.

And maybe two years from now we will be bemoaning all of the Daily Show ripoffs.
posted by whatnot at 10:26 PM on October 15, 2004

"Crossfire" was put together by people who had more experience in sports programming than in news, if I remember correctly. I'm not kidding. What Stewart did was heroic.
posted by raysmj at 11:02 PM on October 15, 2004

For some reason the local community radio station has been playing BBC world service news radio at about the time that I have my alarm clock set. It amazed me how interesting international news could be, and how bad American cable and broadcast news really is. As an example of a typical spot, they had a three-way interview between a British professor, an Italian reporter, and a Nigerian activist about how you actually structure governments to avoid corruption, (many of the things that these three agreed on, including being open about what you're doing, and checks on executive power are issues that should concern voters this upcoming election.) Another spot was a full 10 minutes of hardball questions thrown at Afghan presidential candidate Karzai regarding accusations of voter fraud, intimidation, and corruption in regards to the upcoming election. (This was a few weeks ago.)

Granted, I did get rid of my television several months ago, but I honestly cannot remember ever seeing an Iraqi or Afghani citizen given more than a 10 second sound bite.

I think that although Stewart's appearance was good because every now and then it is nice to confront the pundits with a person who sits down and then shows absolutely no respect for the format, and takes the show way off script. On the other hand, I do not think that Stewart was particularly good at making the criticisms he was trying to make. The Wonkette comment by Tucker Carlson and his comments during the show revealed that Carlson just wasn't prepared for serious interview about why Stewart does the type of comedy that he performs. However, when Stewart said that these shows that don't offer any deep debate are really hurting the United States, he didn't seem to have much of an ability to explain why, or how to change things.

One of the things that I keep missing during this election is Brill's Content. Brill's was a great magazine that published journalists being very critical about journalists, and examining how the stories get made. Two of my favorite investigative articles in Brill's involved the invention of the Jon-Benet Ramsey case that involved hundreds of articles and television news spots reporting on a cold case in which nothing had happened. (Some tabloids even manipulated the case by dropping a tip, watching the police jump, and then reporting on it afterwards.) I was reminded of it when Kennedy Jr.'s plane crashed in my parents were riveted to the television watching Peter Jennings interview everybody who ever written about the Kennedys, interrupting every 15 minutes to report that there had been no new developments. The other big article that was published just before the magazine went under was a big analysis of Blumenthal vs. Drudge, that revealed just how easy it is to commit libel, if you have some very powerful friends willing to take your side.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 11:06 PM on October 15, 2004

With a tip to skallas, I'd like to propose the name The Crossfire Where Jon Stewart Goes Neil-Postal On Their Ass.

Wow, that was good. Haven't seen the actual clip yet, but just reading it was... wow. Such a rush. An I-can't-believe-he's-actually-saying-this rush, followed by a holy-crap-he's-going-even-further rush. Wow. And funny, of course, because he can't help being Jon Stewart.

I mean, a line like this - where do you draw the line between painfully true and gut-bustingly funny?

No, no, no, you're not too rough on them. You're part of their strategies. You are partisan, what do you call it, hacks.

Oh, man. This is great. Thanks, Susan Lucci amberglow!
posted by soyjoy at 11:10 PM on October 15, 2004

"Hate to intrude on this Stewart love fest, but I just wish he would have had the balls to stand up to Bush when it wasn't so trendy."

yeah, the daily show has only come into it's own since the aftermath of Bush's mistakes, but damn if they haven't been leading the way. It really is depressing to realize how much a comedy show has to pick up the slack for all of the 24 hour news networks on nowadays.

Crossfire wants to treat TDS like a debate show, but it's not. the interview is a cat walk for celebrities to advertise their latest movie or politicans their latest book. The Daily Show is better at straight commentary - they need shows like Crossfire to pull their weight in the debate format.
posted by destro at 11:15 PM on October 15, 2004

However, when Stewart said that these shows that don't offer any deep debate are really hurting the United States, he didn't seem to have much of an ability to explain why, or how to change things.

He wasn't exactly given the opportunity to develop his points at length.
posted by rushmc at 11:23 PM on October 15, 2004

kevspace: "hooray for ZachsMind using Back To The Future III in a socio-political-historial-ish context."

I had a poignant Monty Python reference at the ready too, but didn't wanna push my luck. =)
posted by ZachsMind at 12:01 AM on October 16, 2004

There are MPEG and WMV videos (and just the portion of the transcript with John Stewart) at Media Matters. Download them and send them to your friends.
posted by Dome-O-Rama at 12:55 AM on October 16, 2004

ZachsMind - Damn well put, you sound exactly like my old "Comedy, Text and Theory" professor. You don't perchance drive a Harley and compare Dante's Divine Comedy to a mescaline vision at the University of Minnesota, do you? ;-)
posted by TungstenChef at 3:17 AM on October 16, 2004

Let's make [Bush] the Republican Jimmy Carter. One crappy term then he can turn his life around and do wonderful things for the country.

Let's not. Carter's term was crappy because he was ineffective in implanting his progressive agenda. Bush's term is [insert much stronger adjective than "crappy" here] because he has been very effective in waging illegal war that has cost thousands of lives and created untold misery, in shitting all over the US Constitution, in creating a culture of fear after 9/11, in corporate paydays (Enron, Halliburton etal.) and oh well the list is long, you get the point.

A "nice guy" doesn't cause so much suffering. Don't stain the name of Jimmy Carter by linking him to Bush.
posted by sic at 3:19 AM on October 16, 2004

Wow, I just downloaded and watched the clip. Stewart absolutely owned those guys*. It was interesting to see how easily he brushed aside the whiny bow tie guy's attempts to bully him into the correct format. Has Stewart's popularity made him powerful enough to dominate lesser celebrities like these two? You see the same happen with media figures like Howard Stern, Bill O'Reilly and Michael Moore; it doesn't matter what you think about them personally, they have become popular enough with a certain segment of the US so as no to have to change their discourse if they don't want to. Ever.

Congratulations and thanks to Stewart for giving us one of those rare (and oh so brief) moments where the mask is pulled off (or accidently falls off) and, to quote myself, "the whole stinking shit of it is exposed". This reminds me of the press conference a few years back where Ari Fleischer was droning on with a straight face how the US would never ever bribe countries to join the Iraq invasion coalition and the entire brown lipped, ass sucking press corps burst into spontaneous laughter despite themselves causing Ari to stalk off the stage....

"Laughed right off the stage!" Ah, truth! Your name is comedy!


*I've never watched Crossfire and had only vaguely heard the names of the hosts in the media. Unfortunately, I've only seen a few clips of the Daily Show downloaded from the Internet as we don't get him in my country. I want more.
posted by sic at 4:33 AM on October 16, 2004

whoever described him as heroic was right. he said everything I've thought but lacked the popularity to say. you can tell tucker was prepared to do to jon what jon did to him with his little, "look, you asked easy questions!" bit. can we say DE-NIED?
posted by mcsweetie at 4:52 AM on October 16, 2004

I did think it was rather curious that Tucker had that graphic right at hand; prepared to mock Stewart's questioning style with examples from the show. They were obviously going to tweak Stewart and got gutted en route.
posted by RavinDave at 5:27 AM on October 16, 2004

There's another torrent link here.
posted by peterb at 5:32 AM on October 16, 2004

Yeah... it's about friggin' time somebody stood up to for the people. Someone should go to those reporters who are defending the politicians who fed them the Plame story and ask them who it is, exactly, that they work for.

There's a place for news and there's a place for entertainment. CNN is supposed to be news, but instead they put on this sham argument show in order to get folks all worked up.

Controversy creates high ratings. The higher the ratings, the more $$$.

It'd be funny, really, if the public weren't so tragically misinformed -- no surprise, since all the major commercial networks have all but abandoned any sense of responsibility.
posted by ph00dz at 5:41 AM on October 16, 2004

noisa - in stewart/bittorrent related matters does anyone have a source for the daily show's coverage on the last two debates? i've checked that astronomy-related name place and yotoshi and btbot but with no luck. there seems to be be no dedicated release group for the daily show but two for "joey".

I get my Daily Show fix from here.
posted by chill at 5:44 AM on October 16, 2004

Starting to d/l now and just read the whole transcript. Thanks for this post. Amazing stuff.
posted by yerfatma at 5:56 AM on October 16, 2004

I read the transcript last night and thought it was interesting... I downloaded the bittorrent this morning and thought it was amazing!

A few minutes into the show, Stewert said "... I think, often times, the person that knows they can't win is allowed to speak the most freely, because, otherwise, show with titles, such as CROSSFIRE... or "HARDBALL" or "I'm Going to Kick Your Ass" or... will jump on it." And right there, he established his position for a great show. John knew that the moderating hacks would direct the show as they saw fit and that they would ask and answer the questions they chose, so he was free to simply be himself and made them look like idiots.

Great post.
posted by Caffine_Fiend at 6:57 AM on October 16, 2004

Zachsmind - Brilliant comments.
posted by troutfishing at 7:12 AM on October 16, 2004

noisa and chill, regarding the Daily Show coverage of the last two debates. Not available because the Daily Show, I think, was in re-runs those days. Certainly last week; I know because I stayed up on purpose to watch and then went to bed cursing.
posted by mmahaffie at 7:20 AM on October 16, 2004

> "I'm Going to Kick Your Ass"

When is that on? I heard the pilot is going to have Joe Wilson vs. Bob Novak. Barehanded boxing. Wilson will take a fall if Novak admits who in the White House spilled the beans about his wife, while Novak will take a fall if Jon Stewart stops calling him a Douchebag.
posted by skallas at 7:21 AM on October 16, 2004

Anyone who thinks anyone mocks the president because it's trendy, and not because the president's actions truly deserve to be mocked, needs to have his head examined.
posted by crunchland at 7:32 AM on October 16, 2004

I also thought ZashsMind's comments were spot on.

Meanwhile...some comments from people who said they were at the taping...
posted by jaronson at 8:08 AM on October 16, 2004

Wow. I feel like I just stepped into Network.

KirkJobSluder, I found Brill's Content to be rather the opposite of what's going on here (though I only got to read the last issue). The Drudge/Blumenthal article you mentioned seemed pretty smugly self-glorifying to me — look at this non-professional with his silly hat! Look at his silly charges! Just goes to show you ought to leave this to us pros.
posted by IshmaelGraves at 8:20 AM on October 16, 2004

Heh ... just watched it again:

BEGALA: That's why every day, we have two guests with their own unique perspective on the news. But today, CROSSFIRE is very different....

Indeed it is.
posted by IshmaelGraves at 8:23 AM on October 16, 2004

CARLSON: You need to get a job at a journalism school, I think.

STEWART: You need to go to one.

Oh my god. Stewart fucking ate them up. I have to see that show.

Great post Amberglow.
posted by a3matrix at 9:05 AM on October 16, 2004

IshmaelGraves: There was a bit of that in there, but there was quite a bit more about the legal aspects of the case that actually makes the "vast right wing conspiracy" seem reasonable. It did a good job summarizing what had been a year of legal wrangling, and was not all that friendly to the Blumenthals either.

So it worked a bit like this, Drugde publishes a rumor from an anonymous source that Blumenthal is a wife beater.

The Blumenthal's sue for libel.

Drudge's initial response seems panic-driven, but then he falls into the loving arms of a right-wing think tank with tons of cash and legal talent.

Now here is the interesting thing, Drudge uses the little bird defense. He is under no obligation to serve up the little bird that whispered in his ear (for much the same reason than Novak feels no obligation to do so.) "But," Drudge's lawyers claim, "truth is a defense and the little bird could be true." So they put Ms. Blumenthal on the stand for hours forcing her to answer the same set of questions looking for a hole that they can exploit to say that it MIGHT be true that Blumenthal has a pattern of relationship violence. Then, they threaten to give the same treatment to all of Blumenthal's friends going back to his college years.

On the Blumenthal's side, they find themselves forced to go hunting for the little bird that planted the poison rumor. They are not in the loving arms of a big think tank, and fully expected Drudge to be professional and offer up the asked-for apology in a short period of time.

Meanwhile, the two legal teams get nasty with each other with Drudge and the Blumenthals caught in the crossfire, leading to a trivial settlement for a meeting that was canceled at the last minute.

Perhaps because I was a regular reader for the last year of publication, I realized that Drudge was getting no worse treatment from Brill's than the pros, who got ripped to shreds every month.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 10:02 AM on October 16, 2004

I liked Brill's but often it was media people themselves examining the media and other media people, and more personality-focused than otherwise (i do remember great, biting Disney stuff tho).

Speaking of that kind of stuff, Howard Kurtz is someone else that should be retired immediately, from print and CNN.

What's running through my mind now is the question that why don't more people do what Stewart did? Garafalo could, but plays the game. Franken could too, but plays the game, etc...
posted by amberglow at 10:15 AM on October 16, 2004

Wow, finally got a chance to download and watch the video clips and it really is everything that everyone here has said.

This should be shown as many times as possible. Jon Stewart just got even more street cred than he had before, and he was waaaay out in front before.

Thanks for posting this.

On Preview: You're right, amberglow, there are alot of celebs who could do it, but Stewart IS doing it. Maybe some of the others will do it now that he's broken the trail?
posted by fenriq at 10:23 AM on October 16, 2004

I think part of Tucker's ire about this is that he screwed the pooch, realized it halfway through the first segment, and had no backup plan. He kept trying to nail Stewart into coping to some sort of journalistic ethics on the show, and Stewart refused to play that game, "My lead-in is puppets making crank phone calls." After that, it was all, "you are not that funny," and "do you lecture people like this all the time?"

Part of hosting a show like that is being prepared for the guest who won't run with your opening game plan. Carlson wasn't prepared. So he had his rhetorical ass handed to him.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 10:38 AM on October 16, 2004

the daily show has only come into it's own since the aftermath of Bush's mistakes

I disagree. I had the pleasure of watching it on Election Night, 2000. The coverage of the election had been called "Indecision 2004," and when it became clear that the election was a tie, I recall Stweart looking into the camera and saying, "Holy shit, we called the election six months ago."

KJS: I miss Brill's too. The first year or so was magnificent, but then there was some sort of editorial adjustment that reangled everything to make it personality-driven (suddenly, big-head portraits on the cover, features dominating interior content, the really interesting media crit stuff sidelined to the lead matter). I didn't renew my charter subscription, and every now and then I'd grab it at the news stand to find it had gone more and more personality-driven.

Thank god for On the Media, even if Garfield occasionally drives me to throw a shoe at the radio. Hm, Bob Garfield as a guest on The Daily Show might be something very funny indeed.
posted by mwhybark at 10:41 AM on October 16, 2004

What's running through my mind now is the question that why don't more people do what Stewart did? Garafalo could, but plays the game. Franken could too, but plays the game, etc...

I was thinking the same thing. The world could be a better place. Actors with a political agenda could actually MAKE SOMETHING HAPPEN.

Or they could all be blacklisted and their careers ruined.

But if almost ALL of them did it?
posted by Espoo2 at 11:03 AM on October 16, 2004

from the newest Newsweek: Fast Chat: Stewart 'Inaction'From a purely comic perspective, do you want four more years of Bush?
Well, from a purely comic perspective, you'd want Mr. T to be president. That would be truly fun. But no, I don't cheer for the demise and erosion of the world purely for my own professional standing. I can write jokes about anything.
posted by amberglow at 11:21 AM on October 16, 2004

"MOYERS: The war is over.

STEWART: It's over, baby. We're back to the business of scandal mongering.

MOYERS: THE WASHINGTON POST said, since the first of the year, the Laci Petersen case has been featured 79 times on Greta van Susteren's evening program on FOX news; 40 times on MSNBC's THE ABRAMS REPORT; 34 times on CNN's LARRY KING LIVE; and 20 times on HARDBALL.

STEWART: And I hope they get to the bottom of it. I hope they find out.

MOYERS: Is this why you're able to say, without any challenge, that we're being gas lighted? That we keep hearing one thing while something else is being done?

STEWART: No, there's no question."

Meanwhile, that very day. . ."Karl Rove testifies in probe of who leaked identity of undercover CIA officer to media."

Smell anything yet, Stewart?
posted by Feisty at 12:29 PM on October 16, 2004

I think the only thing that would make this Crossfire any better was if Novak was on instead of Carlson. That would have been a real tear off.

There is one question that is nagging me however: hasn't anyone suspected that inviting Stewert on Crossfire would result in something like this in happening? There hasn't been this much talk about Crossfire on MeTa for ages, both shows, TDS and Crossfire, are in a position to gain viewership after this.

Oh, and a big thanks to everyone who have posted torrents, mirrors or mpegs.
posted by phyrewerx at 12:33 PM on October 16, 2004

well, I already watch the daily show. And that segment wouldn't make me see what I was missing with Crossfire.

It occurs to me that I think that segment would have been radically different if the two Crossfire boobs were Carville and Novak. I don't know how Carville would have reacted, but I think I know how Novak would have.
posted by crunchland at 12:51 PM on October 16, 2004

phyrewerx--it's win-win for TimeWarner anyway, even tho CNN came off badly. I wouldn't be surprised if we see more of Stewart all over their empire.
posted by amberglow at 12:54 PM on October 16, 2004

I don't know how Carville would have reacted, but I think I know how Novak would have.

I don't think Stewart would've made it past both commercial breaks with Novak. Or Novak wouldn't have stuck around while Jon kept yelling "Douchebag!" in his face...

If anything, I give them credit for not kicking him off the show midway through. He seemed a little surprised by the fact he was allowed to stay, as a matter of fact...
posted by Busithoth at 2:33 PM on October 16, 2004

I desperately, desperately want to see the raw feed of the Crossfire studio during the commercial breaks.
posted by ssmith at 3:38 PM on October 16, 2004

At about 7:38 EST Saturday, Bill McCuddy (sp?) was talking about this on the Fox Report (on FoxNews, natch -- I was flipping channels, sue me). Sort of snarky coverage mocking both sides at the same time. They said they'd made calls to Stewart which had gone un-returned, but no reference to any calls placed (or not) to CNN.
posted by Sinner at 4:47 PM on October 16, 2004

Tucker got his ass handed to him. Good.
posted by ColdChef at 4:50 PM on October 16, 2004

For damn good media analysis that focuses on the coverage of this election, CJR's The Campaign Desk is a great daily read.


Here are a few of my favorite posts of theirs:
CNN Circles the Wagons on Polling : http://www.campaigndesk.org/archives/000963.asp

Cheney Crosses Invisible Line, Press Pounces : http://www.campaigndesk.org/archives/000901.asp

Newsweak : http://www.campaigndesk.org/archives/000997.asp

98 Times (For the 98th Time ...) :
http://www.campaigndesk.org/archives/000986.asp
posted by joe_murphy at 4:57 PM on October 16, 2004

I love The Daily Show, but something tells me that Stewart won't be able to pull off the mixture of madcap comedy and shrill media critique he's going for lately. Shrill is a lot of great things, but funny to a mainstream television audience isn't usually one of them.

Besides, Tucker Carlson is a fame-whoring vampire like Ann Coulter. If you're going to expend some of your banked credibility on an on-air evisceration, you ought to set your sights higher than a B-list talking head.
posted by rcade at 10:18 PM on October 16, 2004

(Crunchland: "Trendy" in the sense that it's now "safe" territory, since everyone is doing it.)
posted by RavinDave at 10:54 PM on October 16, 2004

Hate to be a party pooper, but what's the legality on this torrenting of television anyway?

Oh, and I watched the clip and it was a lot more restrained than I had imagined it from the transcripts and your reactions. I guess being on TV will help you to put on a good face.
posted by ODiV at 11:35 PM on October 16, 2004

but what's the legality on this torrenting of television anyway?

I doubt the cable companies happy about it. And since no one uploading a torrent owns the rights, well.
posted by Yelling At Nothing at 11:56 PM on October 16, 2004

That's what I figured. It just seems as though people who are normally careful about this sort of thing are putting links to torrents up on their sites. Does the importance and gravity of the situation justify it to them, or...?
posted by ODiV at 6:24 AM on October 17, 2004

I think people figured this was important enough to risk, and that they'll take the links down by Monday or so (when any lawyer's letters would be going out anyway).
posted by amberglow at 6:56 AM on October 17, 2004

There are two levels to successfully having a debate:

First, that both sides are able to state their arguments such that their viewpoints are understandable, and logical. The disagreement still exists, but both sides understand why.

The second level is to escalate the debate by citing evidence, facts, and use argumentative appeals (emotional, moral, or otherwise) to make your case. This is where there can be standoffs, winners, and losers.

I haven't seen a debate transcend the first level for a very long time. Making ad hominem attacks or calling your opponent's position "evil" or traitorous isn't a debate, it's just what Stewart called it: drama and partisan hackery.
posted by mikeh at 8:11 AM on October 17, 2004

That was the most fantastic CNN clip since the beginning of time. He is a genius.
posted by adampsyche at 9:37 AM on October 17, 2004

Unfortunately, I've only seen a few clips of the Daily Show downloaded from the Internet as we don't get him in my country. I want more.

sic, it's not as good as the everyday program, but there's a half-hour Daily Show compilation every weekend on CNN International. I believe it airs at 1:30AM CET...roll a tape.

I miss Brill's Content too, but your disdain for
big-head portraits on the cover

seems a little churlish:
posted by Vidiot at 7:27 PM on October 17, 2004

ooo--smell him! ; >
posted by amberglow at 7:35 PM on October 17, 2004

I've got about two dozen copies of that issue of Brill's above, if anyone wants one. Seriously.
posted by ColdChef at 7:56 PM on October 17, 2004

Partisans use criticism of partisan hackery as affirmation that their partisan hackery is correct, film at 11.
posted by darukaru at 7:42 AM on October 18, 2004

The punitive backlash begins.
posted by rushmc at 9:11 AM on October 18, 2004

Nice. Here's Drudge's lead in on the CNN appearance:

COMEDY CENTRAL's 'DAILY SHOW' has experienced surprise audience erosion -- despite a publicity push by host Jon Stewart.

To most of us Drudge's very name is synonymous with "partisan hack". The fact that Drudge should try to spin Stewart's Crossfire appearance at all is the epitome of chutzpah.
posted by psmealey at 9:56 AM on October 18, 2004

darukaru, I don't buy that snark for a goddamned second. Stewart's criticism of the state of media, was dead accurate and honest, and not in service of any particular partisan agenda. The Dems are just as bad as the GOP on this account, and almost everyone I know is as fed up about it as Stewart.

That is an entirely separate issue from whether, and for what reasons one favors Kerry over Bush in this election.
posted by psmealey at 10:11 AM on October 18, 2004

Carlson said Stewart continued lecturing the "Crossfire" crew after the show went off the air.
posted by NortonDC at 7:21 PM on October 18, 2004

Carlson really is digging himself deeper.
posted by amberglow at 7:39 PM on October 18, 2004

"...and your show will still blow."
posted by jaronson at 8:05 PM on October 18, 2004

he just riffed on it--"media good...no criticism...me monkey...funny monkey" after a montage of clips about Mary Cheney.
posted by amberglow at 8:11 PM on October 18, 2004

Jon Stewart for President Petition : >
posted by amberglow at 8:15 PM on October 25, 2004