The Choice: 2004
October 16, 2004 12:33 AM Subscribe
The Choice: 2004. Frontline documentary. First aired on PBS earlier this week, the full two-hours is now available online. Examines the lives of Sen. John Kerry and President Bush -- from their days at Yale through their military experience and the political world. NPR interview about the show.
Damn, it's all split up into clips. Anybody got a link to a torrent?
posted by sklero at 1:51 AM on October 16, 2004
posted by sklero at 1:51 AM on October 16, 2004
I saw most of it on t.v. the other day purely by chance. I'd seen a lot of the O'Neil stuff, but I didn't get to see the first hour, so thanks for the link. It was really cool from what I got a chance to see.
posted by The God Complex at 3:21 AM on October 16, 2004
posted by The God Complex at 3:21 AM on October 16, 2004
I assume that one 100% Democrat guy is Zell Miller ;)
posted by abcde at 10:07 AM on October 16, 2004
posted by abcde at 10:07 AM on October 16, 2004
I saw the whole thing the other day (interestingly, PBS is taking out ads on AvantGo, which give you the option to add the show's local airings to your schedule, and so I find myself actually watching teevee again).
I thought it was quite good, and fascinating, especially for the information on the lives of the candidates as young men. That said, any sober recounting of these men's youth will inevitably seem to favor Kerry. I recall thinking, "Man, if I believed in Bush, I would not believe this film about anything, almost."
Despite this, it presents the information in a highly dispassionate way, and does explore Bush's time as Governor, thereby highlighting the qualities that make him an attractive politician in the first place. For me, I have to say, it's clear that whatever the reasoning that led the President to drop his public persona of the Texas years, it was a mistake that has hurt his presidency and possibly the country (by exacerbating partisan frustration).
But in the end, although I was reminded that it's precisely Kerry's experiences as a young man that make me able to vote for him, it seems doubtful that the show would change a mind. Not that this is its' purpose.
Still, as the video equivalent of the New Yorker / NYT type biographical articles on the candidates, it was pretty good. Both Laura Bush and Teresa Heinz were interviewed for the piece, and many close associates of both men spoke. Neither man appears except in archival footage.
posted by mwhybark at 10:21 AM on October 16, 2004
I thought it was quite good, and fascinating, especially for the information on the lives of the candidates as young men. That said, any sober recounting of these men's youth will inevitably seem to favor Kerry. I recall thinking, "Man, if I believed in Bush, I would not believe this film about anything, almost."
Despite this, it presents the information in a highly dispassionate way, and does explore Bush's time as Governor, thereby highlighting the qualities that make him an attractive politician in the first place. For me, I have to say, it's clear that whatever the reasoning that led the President to drop his public persona of the Texas years, it was a mistake that has hurt his presidency and possibly the country (by exacerbating partisan frustration).
But in the end, although I was reminded that it's precisely Kerry's experiences as a young man that make me able to vote for him, it seems doubtful that the show would change a mind. Not that this is its' purpose.
Still, as the video equivalent of the New Yorker / NYT type biographical articles on the candidates, it was pretty good. Both Laura Bush and Teresa Heinz were interviewed for the piece, and many close associates of both men spoke. Neither man appears except in archival footage.
posted by mwhybark at 10:21 AM on October 16, 2004
stbalbach: sweet jiminy, thank you for this.
posted by allaboutgeorge at 10:47 AM on October 16, 2004
posted by allaboutgeorge at 10:47 AM on October 16, 2004
It was a fine piece of work but there were some glaring problems. It pretty much glossed over Kerry's accomplishments in the senate, giving them one line but dwelling on his visit to Nicaragua. The other odd thing was when they started interviewing the reporter himself for the show. What was that about?
It also seemed to be pretty favorable in its portrayal of GW which is more of an observation than a problem.
posted by euphorb at 11:10 AM on October 16, 2004
It also seemed to be pretty favorable in its portrayal of GW which is more of an observation than a problem.
posted by euphorb at 11:10 AM on October 16, 2004
this is reairing as we speak in the nyc area (wnet/ch13) and looks to be airing again on monday... probably the same with other pbs stations.
posted by 10sball at 11:13 AM on October 16, 2004
posted by 10sball at 11:13 AM on October 16, 2004
I recall thinking, "Man, if I believed in Bush, I would not believe this film about anything, almost."
I remember thinking the same thing. There's a filter that rises in the mind of a True Believer that basically shuffles everything that doesn't seem to display the right attitude into a "reject" bin; I saw it as a kid from the "other side", when I'd try to have rational discussions about nuclear power and waste disposal with anti-nuclear folks. For various reasons, I happened to actually know a bit about waste disposal and radiation, and had a better understanding of the relative statistical risks of, say, nuclear vs. coal. Those facts basically became inadmissable: Because I knew something about it (and more to the point, because of how I knew those things), I was automatically regarded as "biased."
This works both ways. Right now, this criticism is much more applicable to Bush supporters than Kerry supporters, and what's more, that's both obvious and to be expected. Consider the fact -- not only not disputed, but crowed-over, by Bush supporters -- that many (if not most) Kerry supporters are quite willing to explain how little they "believe in" him.
posted by lodurr at 1:19 PM on October 16, 2004
I remember thinking the same thing. There's a filter that rises in the mind of a True Believer that basically shuffles everything that doesn't seem to display the right attitude into a "reject" bin; I saw it as a kid from the "other side", when I'd try to have rational discussions about nuclear power and waste disposal with anti-nuclear folks. For various reasons, I happened to actually know a bit about waste disposal and radiation, and had a better understanding of the relative statistical risks of, say, nuclear vs. coal. Those facts basically became inadmissable: Because I knew something about it (and more to the point, because of how I knew those things), I was automatically regarded as "biased."
This works both ways. Right now, this criticism is much more applicable to Bush supporters than Kerry supporters, and what's more, that's both obvious and to be expected. Consider the fact -- not only not disputed, but crowed-over, by Bush supporters -- that many (if not most) Kerry supporters are quite willing to explain how little they "believe in" him.
posted by lodurr at 1:19 PM on October 16, 2004
No serious Bush person would watch it, simply because it is PBS. As absured as that is, that is my experience, PBS is basically the Fox for Republicans.
posted by stbalbach at 3:54 PM on October 16, 2004
posted by stbalbach at 3:54 PM on October 16, 2004
I remember thinking the same thing. There's a filter that rises in the mind of a True Believer that basically shuffles everything that doesn't seem to display the right attitude into a "reject" bin.
In certain areas, we're all "true believers." Even the most open minded of us have things that we simply won't deign to consider. It's human nature.
And I have to disagree that Bush supporters don't watch PBS. I'm not one myself, but my activist repub friends are passionate viewers of PBS (and listeners of NPR). They get frustrated at times, but there's no other alternative.
It is possible to be conservative and (relatively) open minded at the same time.
posted by terceiro at 9:42 PM on October 16, 2004
In certain areas, we're all "true believers." Even the most open minded of us have things that we simply won't deign to consider. It's human nature.
And I have to disagree that Bush supporters don't watch PBS. I'm not one myself, but my activist repub friends are passionate viewers of PBS (and listeners of NPR). They get frustrated at times, but there's no other alternative.
It is possible to be conservative and (relatively) open minded at the same time.
posted by terceiro at 9:42 PM on October 16, 2004
Fascinating that Nixon references Kerry on a recording from the oval office as a "real star" after the Vietnam Vets Against the War congressional hearings.
It bodes well for Kerry's character that someone of Nixon's considerable political talents (and ruthlessness) both respected and feared him.
posted by Skygazer at 11:53 AM on October 17, 2004
It bodes well for Kerry's character that someone of Nixon's considerable political talents (and ruthlessness) both respected and feared him.
posted by Skygazer at 11:53 AM on October 17, 2004
I saw this the other night on tv and thought it was fairly decent until they got to the 2000 election and Florida. If I didn't know what happened there I wouldn't have gotten it from this "documentary" just a notion that it was a very close vote and that James Baker went down there and got the ball rolling in w's direction... no mention at all of the Supreme Court? WTF? the election basically decided by 9 justices and they don't go into it. A nation full of citizens who believe their executive wasn't fairly elected? A popular vote going the other way from the electoral vote? I heard nothing of this. It was as if the film's makers thought that whole thing was just a few sour grapes...
I did appreciate getting to see dumb ol' Gore getting stung repeatedly by the congressional black caucus. Just leaves one thinking that the senate is 100 chickenshits strong...
posted by dorcas at 8:55 PM on October 17, 2004
I did appreciate getting to see dumb ol' Gore getting stung repeatedly by the congressional black caucus. Just leaves one thinking that the senate is 100 chickenshits strong...
posted by dorcas at 8:55 PM on October 17, 2004
I saw it. It was okay. Both guys went to college. They both coulda gone to a war. One of them did. One of them married a rich tycoon's daughter. Someday, at least one of them grew up to be president. It's like the plot synopsis for that "Bob and Jack" WB series.
posted by ZachsMind at 9:24 PM on October 17, 2004
posted by ZachsMind at 9:24 PM on October 17, 2004
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posted by mathowie at 12:51 AM on October 16, 2004