Now, the difference between a donkey and a mule...

November 4, 2004 6:02 AM

Democrats have never learned from the second or third or fifth kick of a mule.Zell Miller sounds off about the elections. (reg. req.: ajc / [e-mail] / ajc)
posted by Frank Grimes (23 comments total)

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posted by Pretty_Generic at 6:06 AM on November 4, 2004

Sorry. Try stupid / [e-mail] / stupid
posted by Frank Grimes at 6:08 AM on November 4, 2004

not that one actually cares about what poor Zell Miller has got to say
posted by matteo at 6:09 AM on November 4, 2004

Zell Miller is the perfect example of why the left shouldn't be wishy-washy about their liberalism. When the choice is between a Republican and a guy who looks, talks and acts like a Republican, why not go with the real thing? See also: Oklahoma.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 6:12 AM on November 4, 2004

It's too bad the Douchebag of Liberty award has already been given out this year.
posted by fleener at 6:14 AM on November 4, 2004

This is much easier to enjoy if you picture him screaming in in a locked room with Ralph Nader, as they both suddenly realize how utterly irrelevant they will be for the remainder of their lives.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 6:29 AM on November 4, 2004

Well, I don't know. At least Nader has the potential to be relevant.

Unfortunately, now that I think of it, so does Miller. I'm getting a vision of him starting his own TV preachin' hour...
posted by lodurr at 6:32 AM on November 4, 2004

not that one actually cares about what poor Zell Miller has got to say

You should. Because a lot of his points, once you take away his opinion about them, are valid. The Democrats have lost control over the South, and it's only going to get worse because they're growing in electoral votes. Mind you, his answer- getting behind Bush, that great man of "vision", is crude. The answer, IMHO, is to tack further to the left and reclaim the mantle as the party of responsibility.
posted by mkultra at 6:36 AM on November 4, 2004

Ah, another round of blame the vicitm.
posted by muckster at 6:58 AM on November 4, 2004

And the credit for that goes to one man. Like the last lion of England, Winston Churchill, George W. Bush has stood alone and risked all to give the world a new, clearer path to the advancement of freedom.

What? Bwahahahahaha!
posted by eatitlive at 7:00 AM on November 4, 2004

Ah, another round of blame the vicitm.

Well, look at what we were wearing.
posted by yerfatma at 7:06 AM on November 4, 2004

Tax increases to grow the economy are not a solution that is believable or acceptable. Democratic promises of fiscal responsibility are unbelievable in the face of massive new spending promises. A foreign policy based on the strength of "allies" such as France is unacceptable. A strong national defense policy is just not believable coming from a candidate who built a career as an anti-war veteran, an anti-military candidate and an anti-action senator

Tax cuts for the wealthiest to grow the economy is not a solution that is believable or acceptable. Republican promises of fiscal responsibility are unbelievable in the face of massive deficits and huge pork barrel spending for the red states. A foreign policy based on invading any country with brown-skinned people is unacceptable. A strong national defense policy is just not believable coming from a candidate who didn't even bother to finish his stint in the cushy National Guard job given to him by his father's cronies.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:08 AM on November 4, 2004

secret life of gravy:
great speech..and hey, guess what? I agree whole-heartedly.
The sorta big issue here is " a majority of americans don't agree"
--so how now?
posted by das_2099 at 7:22 AM on November 4, 2004

What I'm sensing now, and fearing, is how the Democrats are going to try to adapt and appeal to the South - by abandoning their principles. Gay rights? Fuck'em. Gun control? Who cares! Environment? Not interested. Fiscal responsibility? For suckers.

It's looking like the only way Democrats will get back in power is if they wrap themselves in God and the flag more than the Republicans. And that will be a horrible loss. I'd rather my party be right than win elections.

(In another note, according to Andy Sullivan, Bush's first action in his new term was preparing to ask Congress to raise the debt ceiling. It's gonna be a long four years.)
posted by fungible at 7:23 AM on November 4, 2004

It's looking like the only way Democrats will get back in power is if they wrap themselves in God and the flag more than the Republicans. And that will be a horrible loss. I'd rather my party be right than win elections.

Very true. The one thing that makes me occasionally sympathize with Nader voters is the knowledge that there are issues that, if abandoned, would leave me unable to vote Democratic. They just got there a lot sooner.

Miller is an idiot, though. The first step we need to take is to make the blue states bluer -- stop this ridiculous habit of deciding that such-and-such Republican is okay. They all have to go, because they all add strength to the national party. Why are we still trying to play the bipartisanship game when the South has left the table?
posted by Epenthesis at 7:46 AM on November 4, 2004

> talks and acts like a Republican, why not go with the real thing?

I would think the Dems could pick off the Libertarians from the Republicans if they crafted the right strategy. Bill Clinton could pull it off.

Going more liberal seems like a poor coalition building idea, since the Suburban middle class ain't gonna buy it anytime soon.

In Ohio, Voters talk of Kerry's inability to connect
posted by dand at 8:06 AM on November 4, 2004

It's looking like the only way Democrats will get back in power is if they wrap themselves in God and the flag more than the Republicans.

Fuck that noise.

There are days, and this is one of them, that I think the right has to absolutely drive this country right over the cliff before people start rethinking where they're at. And so on days like this, I think the Democrats should just give the right everything it wants.

Let Bush appoint explicitly anti-abortion judges to the Supreme Court, who help overturn Roe v. Wade. And see what the women of this country really thing about it.

Syria hiding those WMDs? Let's go marching in.

Let's privatize Social Security; if the market's down at retirement time, if people make unwise decisions, well, this is what the electorate wanted.

Give them what they want; let the disaster commence. This is what the people wanted; and sometimes, you have the misfortune to get what you want.
posted by kgasmart at 8:06 AM on November 4, 2004

Give them what they want; let the disaster commence.

I'd be for that -- except the bastards have control of nuclear weapons. "Let the disaster commence" may well result in millions of dead.

Hell, we've only killed a hundred thousand or so -- let's get it in gear!

Ghod, I hate this. They're doing all of this in the name of all Americans. They're doing this in my name. And there's nothing that I can do to stop it.
posted by eriko at 8:17 AM on November 4, 2004

qui dabat olim imperium, fasces, legiones, omnia, nunc se continet atque duas tantum res anxius optat, PANEM ET CIRCENSES

The Democrats need differeniate themselves from the Republicans, not embrace them. It's going to take a long time and some self examination, but it can be done. They need to find the right memes for opportunity and respect while shedding a fiscally irresponsible image.

In other words, more nrading for outsiders while emphasizing 2 way conversation with members.
posted by infowar at 8:24 AM on November 4, 2004

It's important for those of us who detest people like Miller to listen to them. The past week has proved that many of us were in fact living in an echo chamber. Miller, Coulter, the Corner, Glenn Reynolds of Instapundit, The Washington and London Times, the WSJ opinion page: they really truly do represent what a lot of people think. We can gnash our teeth and be disgusted, but we're fools if we dismiss them outright.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 8:24 AM on November 4, 2004

"In Ohio, Voters talk of Kerry's inability to connect"

"This is a pretty conservative place," said Mayor John Fenton, a three-term Democrat who describes himself as anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage and a party member who thinks Edwards, the running mate, would have done better in Ohio than Kerry.

Ah, I get it. Appeal to the homophobic, zenophobic, racist, most facist elements in our society. And do it with a Southern accent, because god knows what kind of shit you'll take if you talk like you have a brain. "Think you're better than me just because of your fancy degree and your fancy money and your fancy accent?"

This country is sooo fucked. My only recommendation is to create the "I Told You So" party filled with naysayers who predict doom and gloom. Sure, we'll never win, and sure, we'll piss off a lot of people, but at least we can sleep well at night because... well, we told you so.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 8:25 AM on November 4, 2004

The dems are toast, black on both sides. And its not their fault. Its a product of the times.
Now the country is firmly in the grasp of the endtimers. So let it go. And hope they're right, and we're wrong about the future course.
posted by Fupped Duck at 8:38 AM on November 4, 2004

We can gnash our teeth and be disgusted, but we're fools if we dismiss them outright.

That doesn't have to mean giving in, though. Since it makes no sense to have a common good without common values, it makes more sense to focus your efforts where you find common values.

Since I'm fortunate enough to live in New York, I'll continue to support the values that make this a great place to me. I'll take my tax cut check with a smile and put it back into my local community.

And when some guy in the rural south can't get a job in old industries because they've been outsourced; can't get a job in new industries because his school system taught creationism over science; can't afford private healthcare because the premiums are too high; can't survive on social security because it's been gutted; I'll say "gosh, that's too bad", and turn away without a moment of old-fashioned liberal guilt.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 8:44 AM on November 4, 2004