Gun Nut Nirvana!

November 8, 2004 9:50 AM

eBay for the NRA
A place (mentioned once before in the blue, here) where you can drop nearly $4K on a high-end showgun or bid on a His & Hers Pistol Set or, if you just need a gat for a quick drive by maybe a Cobray CM-11 Carbine 9mm is what you need (with a free 32-rd magazine!). What's that? Thirty two rounds isn't enough? Go big and get the 50 round clip!. Or heck, why not get yourself a real honest to goodness Gatling Gun (sure it shoots .22 rounds but they are dirt cheap and you can run through up to 1200 in a minute)?
I'd like to get one of these cute little numbers. But I also wouldn't mind one of these either.
Note: All gun auctions are processed in complete accordance with firearm laws, all guns are shipped to Federally licensed gun dealers and background checks are run on buyers.

I am a gun nut and I approve this message.
posted by fenriq (58 comments total)

I have exude not a whit of irony when I say, "Goddamn, I love being an American."

Gunbroker's great, but there's nothing like walking into the neighborhood gunshow with cold hard cash and walking out half an hour later with cold hard steel. Did that very thing with a friend of mine a few weeks ago, and the words on our lips as we walked out were the same. "I love this country."

This thread, though, I see being a train wreck.
posted by jammer at 10:06 AM on November 8, 2004

The NAA .22 revolvers are very nicely done. I have one of their .22 LR revolvers with the folding plastic handle. But if you're interested in small pistols, check the Seecamp .32 out - it's very good. These used to be very hard to get.
posted by me & my monkey at 10:11 AM on November 8, 2004

This thread, though, I see being a train wreck.

My grandfather told me that during the Depression, they used to fill the CNE grounds in Toronto by staging a train wreck. Two clapped-out locomotives would be driven full-tilt head-on in front of thousands of cheering spectators.

You gun nuts would probably have loved that too.
posted by 327.ca at 10:15 AM on November 8, 2004

If you'd like to fire a variety of big crazy weapons, why not get paid for it?
posted by ba at 10:15 AM on November 8, 2004

This thread, though, I see being a train wreck.

Including that line in the thread's first comment usually doesn't help prevent that.
posted by jpoulos at 10:21 AM on November 8, 2004

ba, because when you shoot those weapons, they sometimes have other people shooting back at you with their own big, crazy weapons.

The thread might become a train wreck, I don't see why is necessarily will. Guns are part of our culture and they're fun to shoot.

Me & My Monkey, I've heard very, very good things about the Seacamps. Nicely made, very compact and decent stopping power for such a little gun. The cool thing with the NAA .22 mags is that I've seen handles that double as holsters and let you clip them to your belt like a knife. I like that!
posted by fenriq at 10:24 AM on November 8, 2004

aren't guns bad, though?
posted by Oddly at 10:25 AM on November 8, 2004

Depends on which end of one you're on, Oddly.
posted by chicobangs at 10:29 AM on November 8, 2004

Some people do bad things with guns, doesn’t make them bad.
Some people do bad things with the internet, doesn’t make it bad.

That being said, gunbroker is useful for uncommon firearms, parts and ammunition – for anything else you should be able to get a better deal from you local gun shop.
posted by Tenuki at 10:31 AM on November 8, 2004

My grandfather told me that during the Depression, they used to fill the CNE grounds in Toronto by staging a train wreck. Two clapped-out locomotives would be driven full-tilt head-on in front of thousands of cheering spectators.

You gun nuts would probably have loved that too.

Absolutely! When I was in the Army, we bought a junk car and drove over it with an M1A1 Abrams tank, and it was fantastic!

I've heard very, very good things about the Seacamps.

I think it's the best general-purpose concealed-carry pistol available. Back when that mattered to me, and I was allowed to do it, I couldn't get my hands on one unfortunately.

The cool thing with the NAA .22 mags is that I've seen handles that double as holsters and let you clip them to your belt like a knife. I like that!

Yeah, that's the plastic folding handle I mentioned earlier. The thing is, the revolver itself is so small, you really need something bigger to hold onto, and the folding handle gives you a full-size (although unusually shaped) grip.

aren't guns bad, though?

No.
posted by me & my monkey at 10:32 AM on November 8, 2004

You know, 327.ca, that does sound like a hell of a lot of fun.
posted by majcher at 10:33 AM on November 8, 2004

aren't guns bad, though?

Troll much?


A gun is an inanimate object that is neither good or bad.

A gun in the hands of a criminal is not a bad gun.

A gun in the hands of a cop is not a good gun.

They are both just guns.
posted by a3matrix at 10:36 AM on November 8, 2004

Some people do bad things with guns, doesn’t make them bad.
Some people do bad things with the internet, doesn’t make it bad.

OBVIOUSLY. Jeez. Can we dispose of the Romper Room philosophy? Some people do bad things with nuclear weapons or sarin gas, doesn't make them bad. It also doesn't mean that we should have free and easy access to those things.
posted by jpoulos at 10:36 AM on November 8, 2004

there's nothing like walking into the neighborhood gunshow with cold hard cash and walking out half an hour later with cold hard steel. Did that very thing with a friend of mine a few weeks ago, and the words on our lips as we walked out were the same. "I love this country."

Wow. I love the convenience of getting a Big Gulp at 7-11 but I've never talked about it like a letter to Penthouse. "I never thought these letters were real until I went to a gun show looking for some cold, hard steel..."

Not gonna get into the bad/good debate, jammer, but god damn if that's not one of the creepiest comments I've ever read on MetaFilter.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 10:37 AM on November 8, 2004

That is true, fenriq, but (I hope) you'll never get the rush of launching a 40mm explosive round through a 5th-story window in the civilian world. I'm just sayin'...
posted by ba at 10:38 AM on November 8, 2004

I'd pay to watch two locomotives run into each other. And I'd pay more to go up and bash them with a sledge hammer afterwards too.

Me & My Monkey, yeah, I want to check out the grip with that funky holster/handle thing going on. Luckily I have a good gun shop nearby and they might be able to get one in for me.

Oddly, guns aren't bad, per se. People that don't respect a gun's lethality are bad. There are very few things I am deadly serious about and guns are one of them. I will usually disassemble my pistol before allowing someone else to even hold it. It ain't gonna fire without a barrel!

ba, I'm in my mid-30's now, they should have taken me when I vollunteered, now I'm just another armchair General.
posted by fenriq at 10:40 AM on November 8, 2004

Nothing inherently wrong with firearms. I own several. Might need them for the coming apocalypse the fundies are pushing so hard for.

The NRA sucks big time though. Fucking corrupt to the gills and full of nuts lobbying arm of the cheap firearms manufacturers.
posted by nofundy at 10:41 AM on November 8, 2004

OBVIOUSLY. Jeez. Can we dispose of the Romper Room philosophy? Some people do bad things with nuclear weapons or sarin gas, doesn't make them bad. It also doesn't mean that we should have free and easy access to those things.

Tenuki's response seems appropriate to the question "aren't guns bad?" So if you want to start criticizing "romper room" philosophy, I suggest you start at the beginning.
posted by me & my monkey at 10:44 AM on November 8, 2004

ba, the only time that happens is when I get my Mad Frag on and play some GTA: San Andreas or Vice City. I hope I never have to fire an explosive into any buildings unless they're empty and I'm demolishing it. And then I think they press a button instead of shooting it!
posted by fenriq at 10:44 AM on November 8, 2004

Fenriq: actually, you can shoot one from your handy M203. It's great fun (in a controlled environment). Just keep the stock tight to your shoulder, or the bruise will look like someone hit you with a bat.
posted by ba at 10:53 AM on November 8, 2004

Tenuki's response seems appropriate to the question "aren't guns bad?"

...which was asked facetiously. Point taken, though.
posted by jpoulos at 10:59 AM on November 8, 2004

That reminds me, I need to go buy a few to bury in the backyard. You know. Just in case.
posted by jeblis at 11:12 AM on November 8, 2004

Who the fuck needs a Gatling Gun?
posted by trbrts at 11:22 AM on November 8, 2004

I saw Rich Hall succeed in getting a Libertarian candidate to agree that, since everyone should be allowed to have guns, everyone should also be allowed to have armed F16 jets. I'm not sure what he would have said regarding WMD.
posted by Pretty_Generic at 11:23 AM on November 8, 2004

Hey, don't laugh jeblis, but I have a cousin that serisouly does that.

AND HE PROCREATED !!!! To the shock of us all. 2 years ago I was at my moms. She lives in rural farmy NY near Saratoga, my cousins kid sees a deer in a neighboring farm field, and flips his lid screaming for me to shoot at them. It was freaky.

When I told him "but Josh, I have no gun" he ran to his dads van and opened the door and pointed to one for me to use. When I asked him why I should shoot at the deer, what are we going to do with it if I kill it, he had no answer.

I called my cousin an asshole when he got back from his hunting endeavor. We have not seen each other or spoken since.

The ironic thing is his father (my uncle, stay with me) has quite a few guns, and is the person who taught me most of what I know about guns.
posted by a3matrix at 11:28 AM on November 8, 2004

Buyer beware! The sellers obviously don't know what they're talking about. For example, this looks nothing like a Tec-9, for example. It's more like a MAC-10 knockoff.
posted by neckro23 at 11:29 AM on November 8, 2004

a3matrix, the mentality your cousin is infusing into that kid is sickening. Its an animal! LET'S KILL IT! is bound to result in a pretty fucked kid.

trbrts, I don't need a Gatling Gun but I would for damned sure like to play with one.

and ba, thanks for the word on the M203! I'll have to see if the little wife would mind me picking one up on the way home.
posted by fenriq at 11:35 AM on November 8, 2004

yeah I would like to play with a Gatling Gun to I must admit.
posted by trbrts at 11:40 AM on November 8, 2004

That reminds me, I need to go buy a few to bury in the backyard. You know. Just in case.

Sadly I know someone who did just that with Ak-47s and SkSs after the 1994 crime bill passed. This is the same guy that had a fully stocked Y2K bunker. He’s going to spend his whole life waiting for the end of the world.

Another decent site is Guns America it has more of a classifieds style rather than an eBay knockoff
posted by Tenuki at 11:41 AM on November 8, 2004

Am I getting this right?
1. Guns, as inanimate objects, can't be bad.
2. Guns (especially Gatling guns) are fun.
posted by Oddly at 11:47 AM on November 8, 2004

Including that line in the thread's first comment usually doesn't help prevent that.

Just immanentizing the eschaton...
posted by jammer at 11:49 AM on November 8, 2004

and ba, thanks for the word on the M203! I'll have to see if the little wife would mind me picking one up on the way home.

Unfortunately, they're very expensive. It'll take you at least three years to pay it off, and with things the way they are today it could easily stretch to eight.

Am I getting this right?
1. Guns, as inanimate objects, can't be bad.
2. Guns (especially Gatling guns) are fun.

Yes and emphatically yes.
posted by me & my monkey at 11:50 AM on November 8, 2004

I am not a gun nut - I've never owned one, but I've gone shooting twice back in Boy Scout days - and I've been hankering to go do some target shooting for a while now.

I think I'd like to do some skeet shooting. The first and only time I did that (again, Boy Scouts) I hit something like 7 or 9 out of 10 skeets. I remember it being lots of fun and very zen-like.

Though, this yearning could probably be just as easily satisfied with a wrist-rocket, some nice pebbles and a few tin cans.
posted by loquacious at 11:53 AM on November 8, 2004

Maybe Oddly's going after the possession angle? Like the Pontiac Fury by the same name in the movie Christine, some things are just born bad?

But yeah, shooting guns is fun. Its empowering and exciting. Shooting in a place where you can shoot fun stuff is even better. For example, stuffed animals and shotguns are a good mix. Skeet shooting is really fun and alot harder than you think.

Loquacious, why restrict yourself to a slingshot? I've got one but I still like to shoot. There's something about the sound, smell and feel that you just can't get from the twang of a slingshot.
posted by fenriq at 12:05 PM on November 8, 2004

Some people do bad things with guns, doesn’t make them bad.
Some people do bad things with the internet, doesn’t make it bad.

That's a really lame analogy. Guns are machines for killing; these guns, in particular, are machines for killing people, and killing people is generally regarded to be a Bad Thing - at best, a necessary evil. The internet is a machine for communicating; it is no more adapted to "doing bad things" than a toaster or an encyclopedia.

It's not ridiculous to say that "killing people is bad", so I don't think it's ridiculous that a bit of that badness gets associated with the machines used to do the killing. A bit imprecise, perhaps, since "good" and "bad" only apply to inanimate objects in the context of their fitness for a particular purpose, but "guns are bad" is a convenient shorthand for "guns are devices used to do things that are usually bad and sometimes, at best, necessary responses to bad things done by other people".

Of course shooting guns is fun. I'll bet blowing up Pacific islands with surplus atom bombs would be fun too. But it's not hard to see why some people might think this kind of entertainment is a little creepy.
posted by Mars Saxman at 12:25 PM on November 8, 2004

3. Mars is Good.
posted by Oddly at 12:34 PM on November 8, 2004

Guns are fun, but homemade explosives are way funner. And cheaper.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 12:51 PM on November 8, 2004

Guns are machines for killing

Most are, some aren't. I enjoy shooting pistols that are designed solely to put very small holes in concentric circles at relatively long distances.

"guns are bad" is a convenient shorthand for "guns are devices used to do things that are usually bad and sometimes, at best, necessary responses to bad things done by other people"

The vast majority of guns here in the US aren't used for anything of the sort. Most are used for hunting or occasional plinking, if they're used at all. Many people who own guns for personal or home defense don't think about them otherwise; for them, a gun is a necessary evil. For a gun enthusiast, a gun is something that provides enjoyment.

Of course shooting guns is fun. I'll bet blowing up Pacific islands with surplus atom bombs would be fun too. But it's not hard to see why some people might think this kind of entertainment is a little creepy.

You're free to find something creepy, or not, according to your tastes. Within a free society, "creepy" shouldn't be sufficient reason to deny someone their rights, whether it comes to owning firearms or same-sex relations. In any case, is it any creepier than, say, playing a typical first-person shooter?
posted by me & my monkey at 1:02 PM on November 8, 2004

There's also the beauty of a well made gun. When I was back in prep school, we got to skeet shoot with one of the teacher's heirloom over and under shotgun that was at least 50 years old and had inlays and incredibly detailed stock designs. It was a work of art really.

It creeps the heck out of me that people let their dogs lick their feet. Can we make that illegal?

Serioulsy though, I get that guns upset some people. They're implements of destruction (mostly but Me & My Monkey notes clearly above that they have other uses too) but they are also highly engineered marvels. Take a good look at what actually happens when you fire a pistol and the momentary interplay of parts with the released energy is like a miniature ballet in your hands. The boom and smell is just the icing on the cake.
posted by fenriq at 1:17 PM on November 8, 2004

What about air guns? Those kill and put holes in concentric circles, too. It's how I was introduced to the proper use of a gun, and a lesson on life and death.
posted by grefo at 1:25 PM on November 8, 2004

One of the better quotes in this thread:

There are very few things I am deadly serious about and guns are one of them.



I love going out target shooting with friends. I don't personally own a gun but I have friends who do, and they are dead serious about the safety of them and others when they shoot. I think learning how to shoot properly is a lesson in respect and commitment: If you aim this gun at a person, that person will die. You have to commit to being safe with this gun.
posted by Keyser Soze at 1:39 PM on November 8, 2004

grefo, they've got airguns too.

And thanks Keyser. I'm glad that line got picked up on.

The rule I grew up with was: Don't point your gun at anything you don't want dead and treat it like it is loaded at all times.
posted by fenriq at 2:00 PM on November 8, 2004

I like guns. I like shooting. I'm pretty good at it, as a matter of fact.
But I have a boy who is 3 and a half, and there is no way I would have a gun in the house or allow him to visit anyone else who had a gun in the house. Sometimes that momentary interplay of parts just isn't worth it.

Over here, it doesn't matter - no one has real guns, but air guns abound, and recently I read of an 8 year old dying after being shot through the heart with one of those. When I see kids playing with them at the park, it kind of creeps me out as well. Not least because they look EXACTLY like real guns - there's nothing like seeing a 14 year old running around with an HK-MP5 to get an ex-NYer's heart started . No laws about toy/gun confusion here, apparently.
posted by bashos_frog at 3:05 PM on November 8, 2004

The rule I grew up with was: Don't point your gun at anything you don't want dead and treat it like it is loaded at all times.

That's the way I was raised too. We had guns in the house my whole life. Nobody in my family would ever consider "playing" with one.

ut I have a boy who is 3 and a half, and there is no way I would have a gun in the house or allow him to visit anyone else who had a gun in the house.

While I fully respect your rights to make decisions regarding your son's safety, I suggest to you that there are safe gun owners, myself included. I have a son who is just shy of 2, and it never crossed my mind to get rid of my grandfather's antique winchesters, or the guns we need if we go out to the ranch. (Rattlesnakes, doncha know.)

My guns are safely locked, the ammunition is kept on a different floor, and in a locked cabinet. For the most part, you need two keys to be able to load a gun in this house. Nobody can accidently kill someone here. By the same token, I won't buy my child toy guns, air rifles, or anything else that detracts from the message that a gun's primary purpose is to kill things.

My point is that there are safe gun owners, and there are non-safe gun owners...just like there are safe car owners and people who drive drunk.
posted by dejah420 at 4:09 PM on November 8, 2004

I dream a world where you can buy narcotics, guns and beer at a drive-thru window and use them all by the time you get home.
posted by Veritron at 4:29 PM on November 8, 2004

Veritron, add in hookers and you've got a deal!

Actually, when I last came through Flagstaff, AZ I remember a store with a drive through that sold alcohol and guns. They might have added a pharmacy by now.
posted by fenriq at 5:00 PM on November 8, 2004

Off-topic: I was trying to think about how to kill someone with the Internet(s), and all I could think of was throwing a server rack at them. (no judgment, just curiousity.)

And yes, I would venture NYers are a lot more skittish around guns than others. The only time I've ever seen a gun was a) being threatened and b) well, being threatened.

And yet, target shooting sounds like an excellent recreation. I would like to try that someday, once I stop ducking.
posted by ltracey at 7:14 PM on November 8, 2004

Within a free society, "creepy" shouldn't be sufficient reason to deny someone their rights, whether it comes to owning firearms or same-sex relations.

I agree wholeheartedly.
posted by Mars Saxman at 9:48 PM on November 8, 2004

Yo me & my monkey, an M203 receiver with parts (minus barrel) can be had for $2,275...you could probably get a barrel and get a build by a competent gunsmith for about $300 more. Cheaper than selling your time to the military to try one out!

If you're itching to try stuff out, check out a shoot near you, Kentucky - Colorado - Minnesota). Look around, they have them in ALMOST every state that allows civilian Class III ownership (if you're interested in a smaller "public" shoot in PA, let me know.) Most of these have weapon rentals where you pay a price for a number of rounds and they will walk you through operating and firing the weapon.

You usually end up hanging out with military/law enforcement types for the most part but the skyrocketing cost of Class III weapons has brought A LOT of "undesirable" people into the hobby who have more money than brains...smaller shoots tend to be better controlled and MUCH safer. These weapons are dangerous in inexperienced hands and too many people with cash to burn think that these are weekend toys instead of fascinating pieces of machinery that you should get to know inside and out. When my friend recently acquired an M2HB .50 caliber machinegun we spent literally WEEKS after it arrived doing nothing but reading everything we could get our hands on and attended two shoots where we simply talked to older guys who had huge amounts of experience with them from the military before we ever fired a round. At the shoot where we "christened" her, guys who had owned them for years were amazed at how quick we set it up, headspaced/timed the weapon, and were ready to go...we knew more than many of them at that time yet still listened and learned even more. You never know it all!

I hope you get to experience some interesting guns, my current list is (off the top of my head):

Rifles
M-16 (multiple variants), AK (many kinds), H&K (G3, 91, 53), Browning Automatic Rifle, M-14, Bren, American 180, Japanese Type 99.

Beltfed
M2HB .50, M2 .30 (aka Colt MG-40 or ANM2), MG-42, MG-34, Browning 1919 (A4 and A6), Maxim (Russian, 08, and 08/15), PKM.

Subguns
Greaseguns (several), MP-40, Sten, Reising, Thompson, MP-5 (K, SD, and PDW), MK-760, MAC-10, MAC-11, UZI (many variants).

Probably more...can't remember! They are all FASCINATING though and I won't fire anything unless the owner strips the gun and describes the operating principles...the variations are amazing and the stories you can get out of some of the old military guys are priceless.
posted by RevGreg at 2:08 AM on November 9, 2004

Is it true the only mod to make a preban uzi full auto is the spring?
posted by Keyser Soze at 2:36 AM on November 9, 2004

Some things for the DIYers

.50-Caliber Rifle Construction Manual

Do-It-Yourself Submachine Gun

Came across these the other day, and bookmarked them for the revolution.
posted by bashos_frog at 2:47 AM on November 9, 2004

Crap, I didn't even think to look at some of the links in the main post...I thought I recognized the gatling gun workmanship and I was right.

I've never witnessed one of the 10/22 kits in action but I saw a guy with one of the AK kits and it was literally an accident waiting to happen. The crappy "mount" that they sell with these kits is totally inadequate to handle these weapons and while the recoil on the 10/22 version MAY be controllable...the AK version rocked all over the place even with some (inadequate) weight added to the base. We had bullet strikes less than 20 feet in front of our line spot because of the jackass I saw with one of them trying to crank the firing mechanism, aim, and steady the weapon at the same time...and he didn't want to hear ANYTHING about how dangerous that was and the rangemaster wouldn't do anything about him (we asked for our money back and left.) If you build one of these I *strongly* suggest you tell them to keep their shitty, pretty mount and get something milsurp to use or build your own.
posted by RevGreg at 3:00 AM on November 9, 2004

No Keyser, the bolt and receiver on the full-auto UZI are quite different per BATF regulations requiring weapons to not be easily convertible. I'm not saying that it would be super difficult to convert one but I will say that it would be stupid as the penalties are severe. Heck, for about $7,000 you can own one LEGALLY...why risk a mandatory 10 year prison term for having an illegal machinegun?
posted by RevGreg at 3:06 AM on November 9, 2004

Yo me & my monkey, an M203 receiver with parts (minus barrel) can be had for $2,275...you could probably get a barrel and get a build by a competent gunsmith for about $300 more. Cheaper than selling your time to the military to try one out!

Fortunately, thanks to Uncle Sam, I've already had the pleasure. Plus, the gun laws in DC are a bit too strict to let me get an M203. When I was in the military, I got to shoot a wide range of things from the M2HB you described, the M85 .50 caliber machine gun (mounted on the old M60A3 tanks), the Korean War-era greaseguns - they were standard issue to tankers in my time - all the way up to the 105mm and 120mm main guns of M60A3s and M1A1s.

However, I can not imagine owning my own Ma Deuce.
posted by me & my monkey at 6:12 AM on November 9, 2004

I still want a Parrott gun. I love that you don't need a permit for a cannon, so long as it's (1) muzzleloading, (2) black-powder, and (3) a "replica" of an old gun (or an actual one). That oughta get them durn kids offa ma yard...

Now to find out whether you can use them to lob shells, or whether you have to use wussy old solid shot or grapeshot.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:48 AM on November 9, 2004

However, I can not imagine owning my own Ma Deuce.

I’m in the process of rebuilding one as semi-automatic right now. It’s mainly just for the collection – way too expensive to shoot with any regularity.
posted by Tenuki at 7:04 AM on November 9, 2004

I'm not sure Xenophobe but I think an explosive shell would rate as a "destructive device" and would have to be registered and transferred as such - an expensive prospect to be sure! I'm not sure if the energy of such a shell (plus it would need to be designed with a kinetic striker) would be enough set off Tannerite or if that would even skirt the destructive device registration need. The one car shoot (we seem to always have panel vans there) I go to yearly starts off with a cannon shot into the vehicle with solid shot - it's pretty impressive for the low-tech weapon it is!

You're right about the Deuce being pricey to shoot...picked up 600 rounds of ammunition at a show a few months back and it was about $850...but it was mostly AP and API. The biggest problem here in PA is finding a place to shoot them safely, the best range we have at the time is about 300 yards...I'd love to find something safe in the 1000-1500 yard length within a reasonable drive.
posted by RevGreg at 1:06 PM on November 9, 2004

Here’s a man that built his own 12 pound Mountain Howitzer Cannon, and uses it for hunting…

I’m lucky in that I have around 8,000 acres and a private gravel pit to utilize for target practice.
posted by Tenuki at 1:27 PM on November 9, 2004