Powell's gone
November 15, 2004 7:45 AM Subscribe
Colin Powell resigns. He'll be missed.
In my opinion, a good man who wanted to influence the government's behavior from within, and failed. Of course, if he'd done this earlier, Kerry might have won...
posted by Pretty_Generic at 7:52 AM on November 15, 2004
posted by Pretty_Generic at 7:52 AM on November 15, 2004
He'll be missed.
maybe not.
In February, Secretary of State Colin Powell made a surprising admission.
He told The Washington Post that he doesn't know whether he would have recommended the invasion of Iraq if he had been told at the time that there were no stockpiles of banned weapons.
Powell said that when he made the case for war before the United Nations one year ago, he used evidence that reflected the best judgments of the intelligence agencies.
posted by matteo at 7:58 AM on November 15, 2004
maybe not.
In February, Secretary of State Colin Powell made a surprising admission.
He told The Washington Post that he doesn't know whether he would have recommended the invasion of Iraq if he had been told at the time that there were no stockpiles of banned weapons.
Powell said that when he made the case for war before the United Nations one year ago, he used evidence that reflected the best judgments of the intelligence agencies.
posted by matteo at 7:58 AM on November 15, 2004
Powell in '08? That would be interesting in so many ways. Too bad the odds are about the same as a Kerry inauguration this January.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 8:02 AM on November 15, 2004
posted by GhostintheMachine at 8:02 AM on November 15, 2004
Isn't Rumsfeld leaving too? And I don't know if Cheney's got another four years left in him, God bless'm. When the other half of the country voted Bush back into office, did they know that half of his core posse weren't gonna be there to back up his "policies"? Did they care? Or did they just vote Shrub in cuz he used less of dem big college words whut Kerry'd throw around makin' 'em feel ignernt?
There was a time when I believed if the republicans had put Colin Powell and John McCain on the ballot for pres & vice, even I woulda voted republican, but after four years of watching Powell play the game of StepnFetchit, I take that back. He should go back home and be with his family. Write a book or two. Maybe do some gardening. Retire quietly and peacefully and stay out of the limelight in his declining years. Game over. I hope the best for the guy cuz he has done some great things in his time, but ..damn!
posted by ZachsMind at 8:05 AM on November 15, 2004
There was a time when I believed if the republicans had put Colin Powell and John McCain on the ballot for pres & vice, even I woulda voted republican, but after four years of watching Powell play the game of StepnFetchit, I take that back. He should go back home and be with his family. Write a book or two. Maybe do some gardening. Retire quietly and peacefully and stay out of the limelight in his declining years. Game over. I hope the best for the guy cuz he has done some great things in his time, but ..damn!
posted by ZachsMind at 8:05 AM on November 15, 2004
You'll miss him once you see who replaces him, whether it's Danforth or Condi or whoever.
Powell had credibility and a backbone (at least until the UN debacle), and he got used up and thrown away. He's the kind of guy who should be "the righty" on a show like Crossfire, though frankly he's way too smart.
I'm curious to see what he does now. Zachsmind, I hope you're right. He's got some thinking ahead of him.
posted by chicobangs at 8:07 AM on November 15, 2004
Powell had credibility and a backbone (at least until the UN debacle), and he got used up and thrown away. He's the kind of guy who should be "the righty" on a show like Crossfire, though frankly he's way too smart.
I'm curious to see what he does now. Zachsmind, I hope you're right. He's got some thinking ahead of him.
posted by chicobangs at 8:07 AM on November 15, 2004
Powell made himself irrelevant in the eyes of the public, the administration and our allies from the moment he started delivering his pack of lies to the UN. That he'll shortly be gone from the post doesn't matter one single bit.
posted by psmealey at 8:16 AM on November 15, 2004
posted by psmealey at 8:16 AM on November 15, 2004
he made that presentation to the UN
After some initial reluctance:
According to the report, the draft contained such questionable material that Powell lost his temper, throwing several pages in the air and declaring, "I'm not reading this. This is bullshit."posted by kirkaracha at 8:19 AM on November 15, 2004
he got shit on and stained for life in the eyes of at least half of the US and most of the rest of the world bycheney, perle, wolfowitz, rumsfeld etc. and their puppet bush.
poor colin - i hope he decides to do the right thing for the country and world world and the drop the dime on these scumbags.
posted by specialk420 at 8:21 AM on November 15, 2004
poor colin - i hope he decides to do the right thing for the country and world world and the drop the dime on these scumbags.
posted by specialk420 at 8:21 AM on November 15, 2004
Wow! Where on earth did you find this?
This is cool. Now we have established the minimal pretext so that we can re-argue the Iraq war for the hundreth time and talk about how much we hate Bu$hitler. Sweet!
*gets some popcorn*
posted by Seth at 8:22 AM on November 15, 2004
This is cool. Now we have established the minimal pretext so that we can re-argue the Iraq war for the hundreth time and talk about how much we hate Bu$hitler. Sweet!
*gets some popcorn*
posted by Seth at 8:22 AM on November 15, 2004
I wonder how many years he'll be off licking his wounds and trying to regather his shattered dignity and pride after being bitchslapped for four years by Shrub.
I'm sure he'll be replaced by someone with a more aggressive kill-em-all mentality that seems to be all the rage in Washington these days. I hear Saddam Hussein's available for the position.
posted by fenriq at 8:22 AM on November 15, 2004
I'm sure he'll be replaced by someone with a more aggressive kill-em-all mentality that seems to be all the rage in Washington these days. I hear Saddam Hussein's available for the position.
posted by fenriq at 8:22 AM on November 15, 2004
We still went to war with two seperate countries
With the failed wag the dog^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Htomahawk missle strike VS OBL and the general poor history of 'use the military to hit guy X' and the symbolic attack VS US world trade, /bin/ladin was a valid target. A target that got blessing of the UN.
That war effort was 'justified' - too bad the 'after the fall' implementation is "poor"
But here is a little something:
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-uscia1114,0,707331.story?coll=ny-top-headlines
The White House has ordered the new CIA director, Porter Goss, to purge the agency of officers believed to have been disloyal to President George W. Bush
posted by rough ashlar at 8:22 AM on November 15, 2004
With the failed wag the dog^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Htomahawk missle strike VS OBL and the general poor history of 'use the military to hit guy X' and the symbolic attack VS US world trade, /bin/ladin was a valid target. A target that got blessing of the UN.
That war effort was 'justified' - too bad the 'after the fall' implementation is "poor"
But here is a little something:
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-uscia1114,0,707331.story?coll=ny-top-headlines
The White House has ordered the new CIA director, Porter Goss, to purge the agency of officers believed to have been disloyal to President George W. Bush
posted by rough ashlar at 8:22 AM on November 15, 2004
XQUZYPHYR:
So true man, it's like eating the last of whatever flavor of Neco wafers you find least vile and then going "Chocolate (x) Neco Wafer you will be missed." It's still a Neco Wafer and it's still a nasty chalk disc of faux candy.
Also his son is a pee-hole.
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:26 AM on November 15, 2004
So true man, it's like eating the last of whatever flavor of Neco wafers you find least vile and then going "Chocolate (x) Neco Wafer you will be missed." It's still a Neco Wafer and it's still a nasty chalk disc of faux candy.
Also his son is a pee-hole.
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:26 AM on November 15, 2004
As I sit back to watch the entertaining spectacle that will be the second Bush term, one more piece of the puzzle falls into place.
Let the parade of arrogant B-team screwups, humiliations and indictments begin. I think about 49% of the country is putting their feet up and grabbing some popcorn with me.
On preview: Seth, pass the butter?
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 8:27 AM on November 15, 2004
Let the parade of arrogant B-team screwups, humiliations and indictments begin. I think about 49% of the country is putting their feet up and grabbing some popcorn with me.
On preview: Seth, pass the butter?
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 8:27 AM on November 15, 2004
Condi Rice is an incompetent partisan hack who's done nothing but parrot the party line ("flying airplanes into buildings? Unthinkable!") since she got to the NSA. If Bush is going to consider putting a lightweight like put her in there, he may as well consider giving Rumsfeld joint stewardship of both State and Defense, just to finish the job.
posted by psmealey at 8:28 AM on November 15, 2004
posted by psmealey at 8:28 AM on November 15, 2004
That he'll shortly be gone from the post doesn't matter one single bit.
Oh, it will. It really will. State will now be a seamless extension of the Vulcan front.
All you folks thunking wishfully about a moderate Bush second term... You're way off. He's "got capital", and he's "only got two years" to spend it: He's not going to waste any time. It would have been bad PR to ask for Powell's resignation, but you better believe he wanted it.
As for Rummy: I still say it will be the deputies that go. Wolfowitz can be discharged without really affecting the program at all. He's really more of an ideas man than a do-er, anyway; he'll be as effective in some external role as he is as a deputy.
I just had a real nightmare thought: If Condi goes to State, that means Wolfie could become NSA...
posted by lodurr at 8:30 AM on November 15, 2004
Oh, it will. It really will. State will now be a seamless extension of the Vulcan front.
All you folks thunking wishfully about a moderate Bush second term... You're way off. He's "got capital", and he's "only got two years" to spend it: He's not going to waste any time. It would have been bad PR to ask for Powell's resignation, but you better believe he wanted it.
As for Rummy: I still say it will be the deputies that go. Wolfowitz can be discharged without really affecting the program at all. He's really more of an ideas man than a do-er, anyway; he'll be as effective in some external role as he is as a deputy.
I just had a real nightmare thought: If Condi goes to State, that means Wolfie could become NSA...
posted by lodurr at 8:30 AM on November 15, 2004
Powell had credibility and a backbone (at least until the UN debacle)
Well, yeah, that's the whole story in a nutshell. It was specifically because Powell was the one (relative) straight-shooter in the administration that made his willingness to turn around and spout party-line bullshit such a big deal, and such a huge disappointment.
posted by soyjoy at 8:31 AM on November 15, 2004
Well, yeah, that's the whole story in a nutshell. It was specifically because Powell was the one (relative) straight-shooter in the administration that made his willingness to turn around and spout party-line bullshit such a big deal, and such a huge disappointment.
posted by soyjoy at 8:31 AM on November 15, 2004
If Condi goes to State
if she doesn't, what about Kissinger? he's rested and ready: yeah, there's a few countries he won't travel to because he risks to be arrested for war crimes, but whatever. if Rumsfeld stays at the Pentagon, he'll be in good company
posted by matteo at 8:40 AM on November 15, 2004
if she doesn't, what about Kissinger? he's rested and ready: yeah, there's a few countries he won't travel to because he risks to be arrested for war crimes, but whatever. if Rumsfeld stays at the Pentagon, he'll be in good company
posted by matteo at 8:40 AM on November 15, 2004
It's amazing. Before this administration, moderate liberals (including my father) looked towards Powell with a great deal of respect, and even speculated enthusiastically about his chances of becoming the first black president.
Four years later, and most people want him to leave with his head down. It's sad to think of what could have been and how much potential he had as a leader -- it is a shame it has happened this way.
posted by VulcanMike at 8:40 AM on November 15, 2004
Four years later, and most people want him to leave with his head down. It's sad to think of what could have been and how much potential he had as a leader -- it is a shame it has happened this way.
posted by VulcanMike at 8:40 AM on November 15, 2004
Why would Rumsfeld go? He is part of the team - Powell, and yes Ashcroft, questioned the administration countless times. AShcroft just did it quieter about the whole "Geneva Conventions being quaint" episode. If Abu Gharib couldn't get Rumsfeld out, nothing will. Watch for Condi or even Negroponte to goto State. Don't forget about Douglas Feith all up to goto State (or so I'm told).
posted by plemeljr at 8:42 AM on November 15, 2004
posted by plemeljr at 8:42 AM on November 15, 2004
Powell in '08? That would be interesting in so many ways.
Powell vs Obama. Who would take the south?
Seth has posted 1 link and 187 whines to MetaFilter.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 8:43 AM on November 15, 2004
Powell vs Obama. Who would take the south?
Seth has posted 1 link and 187 whines to MetaFilter.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 8:43 AM on November 15, 2004
Colin is not a victim. He's part of the problem.
Where people got the idea that he was a man of principle is beyond me.
posted by Outlawyr at 8:47 AM on November 15, 2004
Where people got the idea that he was a man of principle is beyond me.
posted by Outlawyr at 8:47 AM on November 15, 2004
James Baker will be our next Secretary of State. I'm very sure of it.
posted by kmartino at 8:51 AM on November 15, 2004
posted by kmartino at 8:51 AM on November 15, 2004
That AP picture of Gonzales is one of the Bush robot pictures.
posted by abcde at 8:51 AM on November 15, 2004
posted by abcde at 8:51 AM on November 15, 2004
Now we have established the minimal pretext so that we can re-argue the Iraq war for the hundreth time and talk about how much we hate Bu$hitler.
So which is worse, Seth? Talking about this stuff or not talking about it?
The election's over and the thugs won. I don't think it's a good time to get bored with the conversation.
posted by 327.ca at 8:52 AM on November 15, 2004
So which is worse, Seth? Talking about this stuff or not talking about it?
The election's over and the thugs won. I don't think it's a good time to get bored with the conversation.
posted by 327.ca at 8:52 AM on November 15, 2004
Everybody got the idea that Powell was a standup guy because he cannily failed to declare his Republicanism for a while. Over the last four years though we've seen what an ineffectual bootlicker he is.
Enjoy having to live with yourself for the years you've got left Colin. You will not be missed.
posted by rusty at 8:56 AM on November 15, 2004
Enjoy having to live with yourself for the years you've got left Colin. You will not be missed.
posted by rusty at 8:56 AM on November 15, 2004
Gimme a break- "he'll be missed?" Colin Powell is apparently a "good person" by nature of being the least-horrible member of Bush's cabinet.
My sentiments exactly. F*ck Colin Powell.
posted by sic at 8:58 AM on November 15, 2004
My sentiments exactly. F*ck Colin Powell.
posted by sic at 8:58 AM on November 15, 2004
How can anyone have sympathy for a military leader who sends kids off to die for what he knows is a lie? At least Rummy and Wolfie believed their own bullshit. Powell should have resigned rather than lie before the UN. But he didn't because he wanted to keep his friends in the GOP. That pretty much puts him in the "scumbag" category.
posted by jpoulos at 9:00 AM on November 15, 2004
posted by jpoulos at 9:00 AM on November 15, 2004
(Obviously, he wasn't in the role of military leader in this case, but as a career serviceman, he should have known better.)
posted by jpoulos at 9:01 AM on November 15, 2004
posted by jpoulos at 9:01 AM on November 15, 2004
Bush robot!? Oh man... that'll help me sleep at night.
On preview: *screams at Pretty_Generic's gif*
posted by loquacious at 9:12 AM on November 15, 2004
On preview: *screams at Pretty_Generic's gif*
posted by loquacious at 9:12 AM on November 15, 2004
Actually, I've changed my mind. What jpoulos said.
posted by Pretty_Generic at 9:12 AM on November 15, 2004
posted by Pretty_Generic at 9:12 AM on November 15, 2004
abcde, that is the funniest thing I have seen in weeks. Thanks for the pointer.
posted by karmaville at 9:12 AM on November 15, 2004
posted by karmaville at 9:12 AM on November 15, 2004
All right, all right, fine. (shrugs). He won't be missed. So sue me.
rough_ashlar, that story is amazing, worthy of an FPP in its own right. The Revenge of the Nerds, I guess. I can understand going after intelligence people who leak to the press, but "purging" an intelligence organization of "disloyal" people sounds like how you'd go about creating an echo chamber.
"The agency is being purged on instructions from the White House," said a former senior CIA official who maintains close ties to both the agency and to the White House. "Goss was given instructions ... to get rid of those soft leakers and liberal Democrats. The CIA is looked on by the White House as a hotbed of liberals and people who have been obstructing the president's agenda."
Hmmph. I guess those hippies at the CIA should've quit throwing flowers and singing "Kum By Yah."
posted by alumshubby at 9:16 AM on November 15, 2004
rough_ashlar, that story is amazing, worthy of an FPP in its own right. The Revenge of the Nerds, I guess. I can understand going after intelligence people who leak to the press, but "purging" an intelligence organization of "disloyal" people sounds like how you'd go about creating an echo chamber.
"The agency is being purged on instructions from the White House," said a former senior CIA official who maintains close ties to both the agency and to the White House. "Goss was given instructions ... to get rid of those soft leakers and liberal Democrats. The CIA is looked on by the White House as a hotbed of liberals and people who have been obstructing the president's agenda."
Hmmph. I guess those hippies at the CIA should've quit throwing flowers and singing "Kum By Yah."
posted by alumshubby at 9:16 AM on November 15, 2004
Didn't want to sully the front page with this, but was curious what people might think:
The Urban Archipelago.
Essentially, a smarter, fiercer Fuck The South. But ya gotta love The Stranger.
posted by fungible at 9:21 AM on November 15, 2004
The Urban Archipelago.
Essentially, a smarter, fiercer Fuck The South. But ya gotta love The Stranger.
posted by fungible at 9:21 AM on November 15, 2004
creating an echo chamber
Methinks it hath been forged in the fires of Vulcan, but if these actions be true, this is but the tempering of thine echo chamber.
If you feel that it is 'best of the web' or at least educational, feel free to make it a FPP. Myself, I've reached the apathy level of 'let 'em have the place'. I have not the power nor the will to oppose 'em anymore.
Looking at buying the 50 lbs bag and the 1 lb of butter/salt flavoring from the local restaraunt supply house and eating popcorn while watching the world collapse^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hgo by.
posted by rough ashlar at 9:26 AM on November 15, 2004
Methinks it hath been forged in the fires of Vulcan, but if these actions be true, this is but the tempering of thine echo chamber.
If you feel that it is 'best of the web' or at least educational, feel free to make it a FPP. Myself, I've reached the apathy level of 'let 'em have the place'. I have not the power nor the will to oppose 'em anymore.
Looking at buying the 50 lbs bag and the 1 lb of butter/salt flavoring from the local restaraunt supply house and eating popcorn while watching the world collapse^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hgo by.
posted by rough ashlar at 9:26 AM on November 15, 2004
I hope he writes a tell-all.
I read somewhere he's planning just that, but there's concern about what might happen to his son if it's too explicit.
posted by jalexei at 9:28 AM on November 15, 2004
I read somewhere he's planning just that, but there's concern about what might happen to his son if it's too explicit.
posted by jalexei at 9:28 AM on November 15, 2004
Powell's not alone either, at least 3 other Cabinet secretaries are set to resign.
The Bush Cabinet is starting to look like the first floor of a two-story outhouse right about now. Given that the Administration seems to be unpalatable for both someone as batshit-crazy as Ashcroft AND someone as (seemingly) grounded as Powell, one has to wonder what assortment of dingbats will stand by Bush between now and 2009. Cheney must be going through his Rolodex like the Rapture's around the corner.
posted by clevershark at 9:28 AM on November 15, 2004
The Bush Cabinet is starting to look like the first floor of a two-story outhouse right about now. Given that the Administration seems to be unpalatable for both someone as batshit-crazy as Ashcroft AND someone as (seemingly) grounded as Powell, one has to wonder what assortment of dingbats will stand by Bush between now and 2009. Cheney must be going through his Rolodex like the Rapture's around the corner.
posted by clevershark at 9:28 AM on November 15, 2004
I read, a few years ago, that Powell was thinking about running for Prez. Mrs. Powell nixed the plan.
So, she says ignorantly, why are these people quitting, really? Rats fleeing? Looking to run for Prez in 2008? Why?!
posted by deborah at 9:29 AM on November 15, 2004
So, she says ignorantly, why are these people quitting, really? Rats fleeing? Looking to run for Prez in 2008? Why?!
posted by deborah at 9:29 AM on November 15, 2004
This guy was the only person garnering international support. The only guy who had any respect internationally. It's a sad day for this country. I wonder how long Bush's next "A team" will be able to stand him.
posted by xammerboy at 9:34 AM on November 15, 2004
posted by xammerboy at 9:34 AM on November 15, 2004
So, she says ignorantly, why are these people quitting, really?
At the end of a term, there are always people who decide to "spend more time with their families". If anything, I'd guess the turnover during the first term was unusually low.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 9:35 AM on November 15, 2004
At the end of a term, there are always people who decide to "spend more time with their families". If anything, I'd guess the turnover during the first term was unusually low.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 9:35 AM on November 15, 2004
He'll get no stinkin dot from me.
posted by DenOfSizer at 9:52 AM on November 15, 2004
posted by DenOfSizer at 9:52 AM on November 15, 2004
Armitage has a point: This is really not an unusual level of turnover, at all. I don't see Ashcroft's departure as in any way signaling disapproval of the administration. Powell has been open for at least a year about his plans to leave after the first term. Look to the second terms of both Reagan and Clinton for examples of reshuffling.
It's really just normal. Sort of. I do believe, though, that a lot of it amounts to clearing the decks for action: Bush wants to make the most of the "two years" he's got before he's officially a lame duck, and he can move more effectively without John Ashcroft drawing attention or Colin Powell undermining his agenda. Yes, he's creating an echo chamber (really, I'd say, cleaning some of the dissonance out of the existing one). That's what he needs to move forward "resolutely" to complete his sanitization of the American government (i.e., removing all those real or imagined pink stains all over the place).
posted by lodurr at 10:03 AM on November 15, 2004
It's really just normal. Sort of. I do believe, though, that a lot of it amounts to clearing the decks for action: Bush wants to make the most of the "two years" he's got before he's officially a lame duck, and he can move more effectively without John Ashcroft drawing attention or Colin Powell undermining his agenda. Yes, he's creating an echo chamber (really, I'd say, cleaning some of the dissonance out of the existing one). That's what he needs to move forward "resolutely" to complete his sanitization of the American government (i.e., removing all those real or imagined pink stains all over the place).
posted by lodurr at 10:03 AM on November 15, 2004
If Abu Gharib couldn't get Rumsfeld out, nothing will.
good point. but what if the really bad pictures/home fucking movies of the tortures/murder finally leak? don't forget that when the congressmen took a look at the vile stuff during the Capitol Hill hearings last spring, well, it was clear that we ain't seen nothin'.
again, let's hear it from Republican Senator Lindsay Graham: "The American public needs to understand, we're talking about rape and murder here. We're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience. We're talking about rape and murder and some very serious charges."
all it takes is one person leaking the bad stuff, and Rumsfeld has to go. why do you think the White House's so ruthless with whistle-blowers? they know they're standing on a political lake of highly flammable material.
all it takes is a vengeful person with a CD full of Abu Ghraib jpegs, and a match.
______
Powell vs Obama. Who would take the south?
Roy Moore. and he'd carry the South and throw the election in the House of Representative, with a certain Obama win (GOP congressmen split between the pro-choice pro-affirmative general and God-fearing guy who's for "State's Rights").
but it'll never happen. even if Powell was white. he's pro-choice and unless he changes his mind that's the end of his race.
posted by matteo at 10:13 AM on November 15, 2004
good point. but what if the really bad pictures/home fucking movies of the tortures/murder finally leak? don't forget that when the congressmen took a look at the vile stuff during the Capitol Hill hearings last spring, well, it was clear that we ain't seen nothin'.
again, let's hear it from Republican Senator Lindsay Graham: "The American public needs to understand, we're talking about rape and murder here. We're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience. We're talking about rape and murder and some very serious charges."
all it takes is one person leaking the bad stuff, and Rumsfeld has to go. why do you think the White House's so ruthless with whistle-blowers? they know they're standing on a political lake of highly flammable material.
all it takes is a vengeful person with a CD full of Abu Ghraib jpegs, and a match.
______
Powell vs Obama. Who would take the south?
Roy Moore. and he'd carry the South and throw the election in the House of Representative, with a certain Obama win (GOP congressmen split between the pro-choice pro-affirmative general and God-fearing guy who's for "State's Rights").
but it'll never happen. even if Powell was white. he's pro-choice and unless he changes his mind that's the end of his race.
posted by matteo at 10:13 AM on November 15, 2004
...that's the end of his race, because no pro-choice Republican can possibly win the nomination. that's the price you pay for building a strong coalition like the GOP has done.
posted by matteo at 10:15 AM on November 15, 2004
posted by matteo at 10:15 AM on November 15, 2004
There are a thousand dead kids because of a war Colin Powell approved that violated "The Powell Doctrine." Hope the former general can sleep at night.
posted by herc at 10:17 AM on November 15, 2004
posted by herc at 10:17 AM on November 15, 2004
"I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well-placed managed to wangle slots in the Army Reserve and National Guard units... Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all Americans are created equal and owe equal allegiance to their country."
- Colin Powell, My American Journey
posted by dhoyt at 10:32 AM on November 15, 2004
- Colin Powell, My American Journey
posted by dhoyt at 10:32 AM on November 15, 2004
Roy Moore
Oh man, I want one of those 10 commandments clocks.
I'm also pretty impressed that his website uses Flash to emulate a Netscape-1996-era experience.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 10:37 AM on November 15, 2004
Oh man, I want one of those 10 commandments clocks.
I'm also pretty impressed that his website uses Flash to emulate a Netscape-1996-era experience.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 10:37 AM on November 15, 2004
Veneman's going too, and Abraham, and Paige as well.
Powell was effectively gone as soon as it got out that he had actually warned them about Iraq, and butted heads with Rumsfeld. I bet they give it to Condi--which will of course be a mistake.
posted by amberglow at 10:44 AM on November 15, 2004
Powell was effectively gone as soon as it got out that he had actually warned them about Iraq, and butted heads with Rumsfeld. I bet they give it to Condi--which will of course be a mistake.
posted by amberglow at 10:44 AM on November 15, 2004
The CIA is looked on by the White House as a hotbed of liberals and people who have been obstructing the president's agenda.
there's a little yellow man in my head ...
posted by mrgrimm at 11:06 AM on November 15, 2004
there's a little yellow man in my head ...
posted by mrgrimm at 11:06 AM on November 15, 2004
I had a friend argue with me this weekend that 2008 will be Hilary against Condi Rice and maybe even Elizabeth Dole.
She didn't really seem all that drunk but that's the only explanation I can come up with for her lunatic rantings.
Condi and Colin in '08! Hahahahaha! A black man and a black woman running on the GOP ticket, hell will have frozen over by then, I'd guess.
posted by fenriq at 11:07 AM on November 15, 2004
She didn't really seem all that drunk but that's the only explanation I can come up with for her lunatic rantings.
Condi and Colin in '08! Hahahahaha! A black man and a black woman running on the GOP ticket, hell will have frozen over by then, I'd guess.
posted by fenriq at 11:07 AM on November 15, 2004
Hey, I called it on 34077. Maybe Powell was operating on some lofty principle, but I can't figure out what it was.
I don't understand how the only person in the Administration ever to fire a shot in battle ended up like this. Perhaps he'll find a way to redeem himself ala Jimmy Carter?
posted by black8 at 11:08 AM on November 15, 2004
I don't understand how the only person in the Administration ever to fire a shot in battle ended up like this. Perhaps he'll find a way to redeem himself ala Jimmy Carter?
posted by black8 at 11:08 AM on November 15, 2004
Veneman's going too, and Abraham, and Paige as well.
Yup: It's deck-clearing time. Watch for a set of rubber-stampers to be appointed as replacements.
BTW, AP has Condi as "most likely" replacement according to the usual "senior administration sources." Negroponte is the more logical choice, but I don't think he's got the ideological stuff to make it inside the echo chamber.
posted by lodurr at 11:19 AM on November 15, 2004
Yup: It's deck-clearing time. Watch for a set of rubber-stampers to be appointed as replacements.
BTW, AP has Condi as "most likely" replacement according to the usual "senior administration sources." Negroponte is the more logical choice, but I don't think he's got the ideological stuff to make it inside the echo chamber.
posted by lodurr at 11:19 AM on November 15, 2004
The Urban Archipelago.
Essentially, a smarter, fiercer Fuck The South. But ya gotta love The Stranger.
i didn't like the fact that he (they?) called states that i love "shitholes," but i thought it was excellent anyway. i don't think the comparison with Fuck the South is very accurate. it's quite venomous, but it's an honest (rather than modest) proposal.
posted by mrgrimm at 12:04 PM on November 15, 2004
Essentially, a smarter, fiercer Fuck The South. But ya gotta love The Stranger.
i didn't like the fact that he (they?) called states that i love "shitholes," but i thought it was excellent anyway. i don't think the comparison with Fuck the South is very accurate. it's quite venomous, but it's an honest (rather than modest) proposal.
posted by mrgrimm at 12:04 PM on November 15, 2004
I won't miss him. He helpd cover up Iran-Contra, fer crying out loud. We don't need a yes-man in any public office.
posted by eustacescrubb at 12:40 PM on November 15, 2004
posted by eustacescrubb at 12:40 PM on November 15, 2004
Well, you know, the only thing holding this Administration back were those damned dissenting opinions. Now they can really get down to business.
posted by dogmatic at 1:45 PM on November 15, 2004
posted by dogmatic at 1:45 PM on November 15, 2004
> I had a friend argue with me this weekend that 2008 will be Hilary against Condi Rice
I really, really hope so. If it happens, say hello to President Condi. And the notion that the Republicans, not the Democrats, might give us our first Black president is delicious beyond words.
posted by jfuller at 2:35 PM on November 15, 2004
I really, really hope so. If it happens, say hello to President Condi. And the notion that the Republicans, not the Democrats, might give us our first Black president is delicious beyond words.
posted by jfuller at 2:35 PM on November 15, 2004
ABC News is reporting that Condi got it. Ew. (No link yet. It's in the 'breaking news' banner.)
posted by amandaudoff at 2:40 PM on November 15, 2004
posted by amandaudoff at 2:40 PM on November 15, 2004
ZachsMind:
> after four years of watching Powell play the game of StepnFetchit,
You really want to use a word that starts with "n", don't you, zachs?
matteo:
> ...that's the end of his race, because no pro-choice Republican
> can possibly win the nomination.
I'll venture my first prediction for 2008. If "pro-choice" is code for "unlimited abortion on demand" then four years from now no pro-choice Democrat will have a chance for the nomination. Yes, there goes my Condi-vs-Hillary fantasy; too bad, but the thought was sweet.
posted by jfuller at 3:22 PM on November 15, 2004
> after four years of watching Powell play the game of StepnFetchit,
You really want to use a word that starts with "n", don't you, zachs?
matteo:
> ...that's the end of his race, because no pro-choice Republican
> can possibly win the nomination.
I'll venture my first prediction for 2008. If "pro-choice" is code for "unlimited abortion on demand" then four years from now no pro-choice Democrat will have a chance for the nomination. Yes, there goes my Condi-vs-Hillary fantasy; too bad, but the thought was sweet.
posted by jfuller at 3:22 PM on November 15, 2004
I always thought Colin Powell sounded like an accountant from Ipswich. Although I suppose it depends how you pronounce the first name.
posted by feelinglistless at 3:27 PM on November 15, 2004
posted by feelinglistless at 3:27 PM on November 15, 2004
You really want to use a word that starts with "n", don't you, zachs?
jesus christ, you guys are really desperate, aren't you.
If "pro-choice" is code for "unlimited abortion on demand"
"code"? you mean "code" like "State's Rights"? or "Conservative Christian"?
I thought that conservatives were the ones who dug code words.
heh.
look, in American electoral politics there's just one test when it comes to abortion laws: either Roe stays or it goes. your side wants to tear it down, and welcome the new coat-hanger-waving overlords. the other side wants Roe to stay.
simple as that. Clarence Thomas vs the late Harry Blackmun. that's the only divide when it comes to abortion in America.
my prediction? if Stevens steps down, Roe is toast.
then we'll see what happens, even in the Republican side of the divide. because the GOP will take credit for the reversal of Roe. but with credit comes blame, too.
I bet a few voters (not only women voters) who chose the GOP this year would rethink their, ahem, choice, after the GOP makes abortion illegal
oh, and jfuller: if you seriously think (in private I mean, not when you're bragging/gloating on MeFi) that Rice could win a Republican primary you're either seriously deluded or you simply lack a grasp of American politics that even a distracted observer could gain reading the papers every once in a while.
Rice could only become President in the Gerry Ford fashion: if Cheney resigns/is removed by the Senate/dies and then, when she is VP, only if Bush resigns/is removed by the Senate/dies
no matter how right-wing she is. she'll never win the Republican nomination. I'm sure that you're embarrassed by the reason she'll never win it, but it's your party's fault.
at least the Democrats, in a case of political death wish, could maybe get themselves to nominate Obama. but the good Red State affirmative-action-hating Republicans choosing Rice? L-fucking-OL
posted by matteo at 3:39 PM on November 15, 2004
jesus christ, you guys are really desperate, aren't you.
If "pro-choice" is code for "unlimited abortion on demand"
"code"? you mean "code" like "State's Rights"? or "Conservative Christian"?
I thought that conservatives were the ones who dug code words.
heh.
look, in American electoral politics there's just one test when it comes to abortion laws: either Roe stays or it goes. your side wants to tear it down, and welcome the new coat-hanger-waving overlords. the other side wants Roe to stay.
simple as that. Clarence Thomas vs the late Harry Blackmun. that's the only divide when it comes to abortion in America.
my prediction? if Stevens steps down, Roe is toast.
then we'll see what happens, even in the Republican side of the divide. because the GOP will take credit for the reversal of Roe. but with credit comes blame, too.
I bet a few voters (not only women voters) who chose the GOP this year would rethink their, ahem, choice, after the GOP makes abortion illegal
oh, and jfuller: if you seriously think (in private I mean, not when you're bragging/gloating on MeFi) that Rice could win a Republican primary you're either seriously deluded or you simply lack a grasp of American politics that even a distracted observer could gain reading the papers every once in a while.
Rice could only become President in the Gerry Ford fashion: if Cheney resigns/is removed by the Senate/dies and then, when she is VP, only if Bush resigns/is removed by the Senate/dies
no matter how right-wing she is. she'll never win the Republican nomination. I'm sure that you're embarrassed by the reason she'll never win it, but it's your party's fault.
at least the Democrats, in a case of political death wish, could maybe get themselves to nominate Obama. but the good Red State affirmative-action-hating Republicans choosing Rice? L-fucking-OL
posted by matteo at 3:39 PM on November 15, 2004
Matteo, I think you're wrong about Rice. If the Republicans think she could win, they'd go with her. Problem with Rice is that everytime I've seen her speak, she's completely uninspiring and often a bit whiny. But she is aggressive and she would fulfill the attack dog role well as a vp candidate.
If Hillary is the front-runner in '08 and if Rice hasn't fucked up too noticeably in State, then I would easily see her get the VP nod. I don't see enough racism in the Republican Party to deny her the chance. The Republicans may dislike affirmative action but they love bootstrapping stories, like the outgoing Powell. I don't know enough about Rice's biography but I would imagine there's either a real or easily faked rags-to-riches story which would appeal to the Red heartland.
And as one other point in my favor: the Bushes, despite all their other faults, don't seem to be racist at all. Above all, they, like any other Mafia-esque family, value loyalty. Rice has been loyal above and beyond the call of duty. Therefore, its not unimaginable they would want to reward her loyalty in '08.
posted by pandaharma at 4:24 PM on November 15, 2004
If Hillary is the front-runner in '08 and if Rice hasn't fucked up too noticeably in State, then I would easily see her get the VP nod. I don't see enough racism in the Republican Party to deny her the chance. The Republicans may dislike affirmative action but they love bootstrapping stories, like the outgoing Powell. I don't know enough about Rice's biography but I would imagine there's either a real or easily faked rags-to-riches story which would appeal to the Red heartland.
And as one other point in my favor: the Bushes, despite all their other faults, don't seem to be racist at all. Above all, they, like any other Mafia-esque family, value loyalty. Rice has been loyal above and beyond the call of duty. Therefore, its not unimaginable they would want to reward her loyalty in '08.
posted by pandaharma at 4:24 PM on November 15, 2004
That, actually, was pretty close to my fantasy scenario. If over the next three-plus years it becomes clear that the Clinton wing of the party has captured the Dems and Hillary is going to get the nomination, the Republicans will conclude, rightly, that they can run pretty much anybody they want and still win. Cheney would be first in line but due to his age and health he will not run. In that case I think it entirely possible that GWB, thinking of his, y'know, place-in-history, could very well decide to push Condi for first black, first female president--and that would be enough to win her the nomination and then the election. Matteo to the contrary notwithstanding, it really isn't about skin color, and a black person who has clearly broken free of the standard left-liberal lockstep would be perfectly acceptable to red-staters. It really, truly is about what you stand for, not what you look like. Or so says all of I.
posted by jfuller at 5:03 PM on November 15, 2004
posted by jfuller at 5:03 PM on November 15, 2004
I don't know enough about Rice's biography ...
here you go. (hopefully this could help preclude a godawful FPP about her.)
she hasn't been very impressive at all when i've seen her on TV. i'd be willing to bet that she's not on the ticket for 2008, but it could happen.
posted by mrgrimm at 5:03 PM on November 15, 2004
here you go. (hopefully this could help preclude a godawful FPP about her.)
she hasn't been very impressive at all when i've seen her on TV. i'd be willing to bet that she's not on the ticket for 2008, but it could happen.
posted by mrgrimm at 5:03 PM on November 15, 2004
No one's ever accused the Bushes of being racists, as far as I know, but just because they lack one vile quality doesn't mean that they aren't replete with many others. Also, I'm pretty sure that favoring loyalty over actual competence is not a good thing.
As far as I can tell all she stands for is Bush. Every single television appearance she has made in the past four years has had either had her mindlessly parroting BushCo. talking points, or flat out lying (see previous "planes into buildings" remark).
She still hasn't shown a capacity for creative, original, piercing or insightful thinking so far, although I'm sure she was a dynamite academic, she's a born apparatchik.
To her core, she's pretty much the quintessential "Company (wo)Man". Not a bad quality as a staffer, or even the NatSec Advisor, but hardly the sort of person you'd want running anything. This is a horrible move. Looks for the US to be at war with the rest of the world in the next three years. She has none of the skill or overseas connections to do well in such a demanding job.
posted by psmealey at 5:51 PM on November 15, 2004
As far as I can tell all she stands for is Bush. Every single television appearance she has made in the past four years has had either had her mindlessly parroting BushCo. talking points, or flat out lying (see previous "planes into buildings" remark).
She still hasn't shown a capacity for creative, original, piercing or insightful thinking so far, although I'm sure she was a dynamite academic, she's a born apparatchik.
To her core, she's pretty much the quintessential "Company (wo)Man". Not a bad quality as a staffer, or even the NatSec Advisor, but hardly the sort of person you'd want running anything. This is a horrible move. Looks for the US to be at war with the rest of the world in the next three years. She has none of the skill or overseas connections to do well in such a demanding job.
posted by psmealey at 5:51 PM on November 15, 2004
Ok. I changed my mind. If Condi Rice is the next SoS, I will miss Colin Powell.
posted by psmealey at 5:57 PM on November 15, 2004
posted by psmealey at 5:57 PM on November 15, 2004
Dr. Freud strikes again.
"In recent weeks and months, President Bush and I have talked about
foreign policy and we've talked about what to do at the end of the first
term," Mr. Powell said. "After we had had a chance to have good and
fulsome discussions on it, we came to mutual agreement that it would be
appropriate for me to leave at this time."
fulsome
\Ful"some\, a. [Full, a. + -some.]
1. Full; abundant; plenteous; not shriveled. [Obsolete.]
2. Offending or disgusting by overfullness, excess, or grossness; cloying;
gross; nauseous; esp., offensive from excess of praise; as, fulsome
flattery.
And lest the fulsome artifice should fail Themselves will hide its
coarseness with a veil. --Cowper.
3. Lustful; wanton; obscene; also, tending to obscenity. [Obsolete.]
"Fulsome ewes." --Shakespeare. -- Ful\"some*ly, adv. -- Ful\"some*ness, n.
--Dryden.
posted by digaman at 6:15 PM on November 15, 2004
"In recent weeks and months, President Bush and I have talked about
foreign policy and we've talked about what to do at the end of the first
term," Mr. Powell said. "After we had had a chance to have good and
fulsome discussions on it, we came to mutual agreement that it would be
appropriate for me to leave at this time."
fulsome
\Ful"some\, a. [Full, a. + -some.]
1. Full; abundant; plenteous; not shriveled. [Obsolete.]
2. Offending or disgusting by overfullness, excess, or grossness; cloying;
gross; nauseous; esp., offensive from excess of praise; as, fulsome
flattery.
And lest the fulsome artifice should fail Themselves will hide its
coarseness with a veil. --Cowper.
3. Lustful; wanton; obscene; also, tending to obscenity. [Obsolete.]
"Fulsome ewes." --Shakespeare. -- Ful\"some*ly, adv. -- Ful\"some*ness, n.
--Dryden.
posted by digaman at 6:15 PM on November 15, 2004
I'm not saying anything good about the Bushes, just making an observation.
I mainly wanted to offer a rebuttal to the idea of Republicans being strong racists. Some are, but not the ones currently occupying the White House.
posted by pandaharma at 6:32 PM on November 15, 2004
I mainly wanted to offer a rebuttal to the idea of Republicans being strong racists. Some are, but not the ones currently occupying the White House.
posted by pandaharma at 6:32 PM on November 15, 2004
You think that's a Freudian slip? Perish the thought.
West Pointers actually get a pretty good literary education -- MacArthur saw to that, during his time as Commandant. If a Point man with four stars says "fulsome", I'd assume he knew what it meant. And most likely, knew that a lot of other people didn't...
posted by lodurr at 6:34 PM on November 15, 2004
West Pointers actually get a pretty good literary education -- MacArthur saw to that, during his time as Commandant. If a Point man with four stars says "fulsome", I'd assume he knew what it meant. And most likely, knew that a lot of other people didn't...
posted by lodurr at 6:34 PM on November 15, 2004
Actually, Powell went to CCNY, and entered the Army through ROTC (which I think is pretty stunning for a ROTC guy go to go all the way... I think the overwhelming majority of Army Joint Chiefs were West Pointers, I should think). Just a little trivia on his career.
posted by psmealey at 6:49 PM on November 15, 2004
posted by psmealey at 6:49 PM on November 15, 2004
I stand corrected -- my bad.
But still, they really do make those plebes read Shakespeare.
posted by lodurr at 6:59 PM on November 15, 2004
But still, they really do make those plebes read Shakespeare.
posted by lodurr at 6:59 PM on November 15, 2004
Speaking of Condi Rice, the Center for American Progress has "a point-by-point analysis of how one of America's top national security officials has a severe problem with the truth."
And here's a video [.wmv] of Condoleeza Rice saying:
posted by kirkaracha at 8:32 PM on November 15, 2004
And here's a video [.wmv] of Condoleeza Rice saying:
We are able to keep arms from [Saddam Hussein]. His military forces have not been rebuilt.And then there's her shining 9/11 Commission testimony [.mov] "Umm...I believe the title was 'Bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside the United States.'"
posted by kirkaracha at 8:32 PM on November 15, 2004
Matteo to the contrary notwithstanding, it really isn't about skin color, and a black person who has clearly broken free of the standard left-liberal lockstep would be perfectly acceptable to red-staters.
Jfuller to the contrary notwithstanding, it's really about not being from the Northeast, and a black person who has clearly mastered the standard wingnut lockstep would be perfectly acceptable to red-staters.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 9:52 PM on November 15, 2004
Jfuller to the contrary notwithstanding, it's really about not being from the Northeast, and a black person who has clearly mastered the standard wingnut lockstep would be perfectly acceptable to red-staters.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 9:52 PM on November 15, 2004
Wow, agreement at last. And on mefi, who'd have thought. That old glass is both half empty and half full. Fuller raises it to Armitage.
posted by jfuller at 4:25 AM on November 16, 2004
posted by jfuller at 4:25 AM on November 16, 2004
Ridge today too (paging Giuliani). and Thompson's switching to another job.
posted by amberglow at 6:04 AM on November 16, 2004
posted by amberglow at 6:04 AM on November 16, 2004
Wow is there any excitement at all with regard to Confabuleezza Rice's gender or skin color? She's basically been nothing more than a dishonest shill in her role as National Security Advisor, and nothing in her background to suggest that she's qualified or competent to be charged with the very demanding role of overseeing the State Department.
posted by psmealey at 6:18 AM on November 16, 2004
posted by psmealey at 6:18 AM on November 16, 2004
jfuller said: "You really want to use a word that starts with 'n', don't you, zachs?"
Nah. That wouldn't have been funny. "a game of StepnFetchit" is funny. I was going for the funny.
Powell has more brains in his little finger than Bush has in his whole head. Powell was a moderate in a conservative land. The past four years for him have probably been more similar to John McCain's time as a prisoner of war than either of those two men would be willing to admit, from a perspective of psychological torture.
"Iraq's where the terrorists are. Say it!"
"But sir, all evidence and logic indicates Afghanistan."
"I'm the president. I say it's Iraq!"
"But sir--"
"Say it!"
"But-"
"Say it or I'll order Rumsfeld to shoot this kitten in the head!"
*meow*
"What!?"
"SAY IT!"
"Iraq is where the terrorists are. There, I said it."
"I can't hear you!"
*meow*
"Sir, put down the kitten."
"Donald! Give me the gun!"
"I already said it!"
"Say it again! In front of cameras! Or the kitten gets it!"
*meow*
Anyone who can survive behind enemy lines, either militarily or politically, is couragous in my book, and deserves our respect. Besides, I prefer paying black people to say the N word for me.
posted by ZachsMind at 6:52 AM on November 18, 2004
Nah. That wouldn't have been funny. "a game of StepnFetchit" is funny. I was going for the funny.
Powell has more brains in his little finger than Bush has in his whole head. Powell was a moderate in a conservative land. The past four years for him have probably been more similar to John McCain's time as a prisoner of war than either of those two men would be willing to admit, from a perspective of psychological torture.
"Iraq's where the terrorists are. Say it!"
"But sir, all evidence and logic indicates Afghanistan."
"I'm the president. I say it's Iraq!"
"But sir--"
"Say it!"
"But-"
"Say it or I'll order Rumsfeld to shoot this kitten in the head!"
*meow*
"What!?"
"SAY IT!"
"Iraq is where the terrorists are. There, I said it."
"I can't hear you!"
*meow*
"Sir, put down the kitten."
"Donald! Give me the gun!"
"I already said it!"
"Say it again! In front of cameras! Or the kitten gets it!"
*meow*
Anyone who can survive behind enemy lines, either militarily or politically, is couragous in my book, and deserves our respect. Besides, I prefer paying black people to say the N word for me.
posted by ZachsMind at 6:52 AM on November 18, 2004
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posted by alumshubby at 7:49 AM on November 15, 2004