Addiction to porn destroying lives.

November 19, 2004 12:42 PM

Addiction to porn is destroying lives, Senate told.Experts compare the effect on the brain to that of heroin or crack cocaine.
posted by travis vocino (118 comments total)

Hi, my name is Travis and I'm an addict.

*Hello Travis!*
posted by travis vocino at 12:43 PM on November 19, 2004

It's not destroying my life, but it is making my wrist sore.
posted by Hugh2d2 at 12:46 PM on November 19, 2004

You know what would help?

Limiting free speech ... oh, and religion, lots more religion, how convenient that the current administration just happens to be working on both of those for you.
posted by milovoo at 12:47 PM on November 19, 2004

Wrong on so many levels. You could compare addiction to working too much with heorin, but A does not equal B.

This can't end well. Someday Janet Jackson's boob will be blamed for the failed drug war, I know it.
posted by mathowie at 12:48 PM on November 19, 2004

“We’re so afraid to talk about sex in our society that we really give carte blanche to the people who are producing this kind of material”

Whoa, talk about ironic.
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:49 PM on November 19, 2004

“We’re so afraid to talk about sex in our society that we really give carte blanche to the people who are producing this kind of material,”

People" are afraid to talk about the national debt and its consequences.
posted by stbalbach at 12:50 PM on November 19, 2004

I'm addicted to metafilter and now that I'm ponying up money to support my habit is making it worse. This needs a Senate investigation. I should find some 'experts' that will just tell me what I want to hear.
posted by Arch Stanton at 12:54 PM on November 19, 2004

She told of one patient, a business executive, who arrived at his office at 9 a.m. each day, logged onto Internet porn sites, and didn’t log off until 5 p.m.

I call bullshit on that. Unless you own and operate your own business, you're going to get caught if you're really and truly surfing for porn eight hours a day at the office. Sounds like the scare tales we were fed in grade six health class; "Try cocaine once...and you're hooked for life!"

Not that pornography isn't a problem for a number of people...
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:55 PM on November 19, 2004

Someday Janet Jackson's boob will be blamed for the failed drug war, I know it.

Well, it did make me wanna take more drugs just to erase the memory from my mind.
posted by jonmc at 12:55 PM on November 19, 2004

“We’re so afraid to talk about sex in our society that we really give carte blanche to the people who are producing this kind of material”

The only solution is government sponsored orgies to let out some of that repressed sexuality.
posted by vodkadin at 12:55 PM on November 19, 2004

Not that this needed to be said, but I'm skeptical of the claim that such a result (if true) is unique to pornography specifically.

What about sex? What about plain-jane missionary style sex? What about seeing someone naked in a sexualized context in person? What about masturbating without porn? What, even, are the brain effects of watching a shoot-em-up action sequence in any given summer blockbuster?

Claiming that porn is addicting because it stimulates the same areas of the brain as addictive drugs is confusing cause-and-effect. Perhaps it's that the drugs are so popular because they stimulate an area that we love so much?
posted by rafter at 12:55 PM on November 19, 2004

She told of one patient, a business executive, who arrived at his office at 9 a.m. each day, logged onto Internet porn sites, and didn’t log off until 5 p.m.

WTF? Either he has some incredible stamina, or he ain't doing it right.

"Mr. business executive, the HAND goes ON the PENIS, followed by a VIGOROUS UP and DOWN motion... After you're done, you'll forget about porn for 30 minutes... you can file your spreadsheets in that time. Repeat as necessary"

I figured even if the guy was wanking once an hour, he'd still get 2-3 hours of work done in an 8 hour shift. It's called Multi-tasking.

Someone get him a RealDoll or a hooker
posted by Debaser626 at 12:56 PM on November 19, 2004

Well then the solution is easy. What America needs is more honest to goodness genuine fucking.
posted by Peter H at 12:56 PM on November 19, 2004

This can't end well. Someday Janet Jackson's boob will be blamed for the failed drug war, I know it.

pfft. on what liberal pinkoworld planet is janet jackson's boob NOT responsible for the failed drug war?
posted by quonsar at 12:56 PM on November 19, 2004

What is up with these Republicans? Is nothing sacred?

Lord how I love me some abortion and porn and restrictive gun laws. All topped off with a nice big dollop of gay rights, yeah baby, that's how liberal I am!
posted by _sirmissalot_ at 12:58 PM on November 19, 2004

ADDICTION. Damn.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 1:00 PM on November 19, 2004

Is this truly the only planet I can live on?

The only solution is government sponsored orgies to let out some of that repressed sexuality.

"Orgy-porgy, Ford and fun, Kiss the girls and make them One. Boys at one with girls at peace; Orgy-porgy gives release."
posted by solistrato at 1:00 PM on November 19, 2004

What happens if you're addicted to both heroin and porn?

For a friend of mine, you know...
posted by SweetJesus at 1:04 PM on November 19, 2004

I'm not sure why everyone's so willing to dismiss the idea of porn addiction out of hand. It's not controversial when government tries to do something about gambling addiction.
posted by transona5 at 1:06 PM on November 19, 2004

I heard that warlords in Afghanistan are actually producing more porn since the fall of the Taliban than before.
posted by billysumday at 1:08 PM on November 19, 2004

It's not controversial when government tries to do something about gambling addiction.

I'm not so sure I feel different about that really. Beyond porn, do you really need the Good Lord's Government telling you not to gamble?

Shouldn't it be up to you and those close to you to decide that? If you want to gamble, go for it. If you end up on the street, stop.
posted by travis vocino at 1:09 PM on November 19, 2004

The only solution is government sponsored orgies to let out some of that repressed sexuality.
It's in the works.
posted by sonofsamiam at 1:09 PM on November 19, 2004

NEWS: Pollution destroying lives, Senate told.
Update: Senators can't stop yawning.
posted by elpapacito at 1:11 PM on November 19, 2004

transona5, we dismiss it because we are in the first of Kubler-Ross's phases of loss, denial. Is it really "porn addiction" if I know tiffany teen really likes me?
posted by thanatogenous at 1:11 PM on November 19, 2004

SweetJesus, I was thinking that exact same thing. And I'm reminded of the old Steven Wright comedy bit about the immovable object and the unstoppable object but now I can't remember how it ends. Damnit!

billysumday, I'm still waiting for Netflix to get the latest copy of Talibanned: Without my Turban XXX. 'Course, if I buy a copy, I get a couple of grams of heroin free.
posted by fenriq at 1:13 PM on November 19, 2004

Layden called for billboards and bus ads warning people to avoid pornography, strip clubs and prostitutes.

This is going to be hoot!
posted by eas98 at 1:14 PM on November 19, 2004

I do believe some people are addicted to porn to a degree that is unhealthy (interferes with normal human relationships, etc). I believe some people are addicted to pot, and alcohol, and gambling, too.

The question is: What's the proper response? Is it nanny-state government prohibition? No -- the vast majority of us not only don't become addicted, but actually (gasp) find these things enjoyable, and they actually enrich our life experiences. If some people have addictive problems, treat the few, and let the rest of us *ahem* enjoy our little vices.
posted by pardonyou? at 1:24 PM on November 19, 2004

eas98: I was thinking the exact same thing. I am going to love seeing the anti-Porn PSAs.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:25 PM on November 19, 2004

I agree that this government is dominated by the most extraordinarily sex-phobic/freedom-of-expression phobic ideologues possible. The solutions they are likely to propose will be on a par with Prohibition, and other attempts to enforce morality.

That said, I believe there are such things as sexual addictions, and addiction to pornography is one of them. I've worked with people whose compulsive use of internet porn has resulted in them losing their jobs, messing up their families, and so on -- and these people often have a really hard time stopping themselves even though all these bad consequences flow directly from their behaviors.

on preview - what pardonyou? said.
I know MetaFilter periodically goes into heated discussions about whether there are addictions, whether you can use willpower to get over them, and so on. But from my perspective there's no question that some people's compulsive use of pornography looks a lot like other people's compulsive use of drugs, alcohol, etc.

Should the government do anything about it? Maybe support treatment services (though of course I *would* say that), but to try to mess around with legal definitions of what's good versus bad sexually arousing materials is doomed to fail, IMO.

On preview, what pardonyou? said.
posted by jasper411 at 1:32 PM on November 19, 2004

Someday Janet Jackson's boob will be blamed for the failed drug war, I know it.

What a powerful boob she has! Justin Timberlake opened pandora's box there, right in front of everyone! Wooooooo!

* * *

Opening: A haggard man in a suit, his pants at his knees:
"I helped fund the Taliban."

A woman walking out of a sex shop with a brown paper bag:
"I just bought the terrorists some more rifles!"

A zitty teenager in a suburban bedroom:
"While my parents were away, I helped set up the next 9/11!"

Porn.
Bad for your plams.
Bad for your eyesight.
Bad for America.
posted by chicobangs at 1:33 PM on November 19, 2004

She told of one patient, a business executive, who arrived at his office at 9 a.m. each day, logged onto Internet porn sites, and didn’t log off until 5 p.m.

So, what's the problem? I mean other than the fact that he's probably not a very good executive if he's only at the office for 8 hours per day. If he were really addicted, he'd at least put in a 12 or 14 hour day.
posted by Tommy Gnosis at 1:34 PM on November 19, 2004

I wish our politicians were as enlightened about porn as England's obviously are:

When Calestous Juma, UN consultant and professor of international development at Harvard university, opened an email from 10 Downing Street last week, he was horrified. Instead of a sober appraisal of the economic costs and benefits of agricultural biotechnology from the inner sanctum of the British government, he found a graphic invitation to take part in "raw and live" sex. And it is not only the outraged Professor Juma who has been getting hardcore porn in emails from the No 10 strategy unit.

posted by soyjoy at 1:37 PM on November 19, 2004

what i find fascinating about these pr0n addicts is that they don't masturbate!

seriously, i saw a "report" on it on one of those "enternewsment" talk show magazine thingies, and they interviewed a few addicts. they said they just watched -- for hours on end like the hypothetical exec mentioned earlier -- but didn't masturbate.

does anyone who knows more about this understand what the addicts are getting out of it if they're not using it sexually?
posted by lord_wolf at 1:38 PM on November 19, 2004

Hmmmm..
And Tobacco? Somewhere in between, I'm sure.
Which do you think will be up for legislation first?
Is it true that Masturbation kills Just like Crack, Heroin or Tobacco?
Help is on the way.
Guess who's going to help you.
posted by samlam at 1:39 PM on November 19, 2004

Chico's ad reminded me that back when I saw this thread I was going to say:

Internet Porn: Stop it or you'll go blind.
posted by soyjoy at 1:41 PM on November 19, 2004

Jesus, this is astonishing. First they use "SCIENCE" to make a point about "moral issues" and then they cite one worker's lost productivity. Aren't the people most harmed by pornography were the models and actors who are sometimes coerced into it? (not that everyone who is a porn worker is forced into it, I realize that.)

FUCK THE GOVERNMENT! Argh! I am not going to be able to handle this shit for another four years.
posted by DenOfSizer at 1:42 PM on November 19, 2004

There is no doubt that study data supports the connection between sexual stimulus and a "crack like" euphoria in the male brain.

What concerns me is the idea that more and more things that make us feel good, and incidentally glad to be male, are making onto the list of things that should also being illegal.

Addiction can happen with any stimulus, pictures or pants walking down the street or a woman's foot in a a high heel shoe (I'm not admitting to anything here) or even more generally, some people are addicted to food, fear, pain, power...

How we address this as a society, balanced against our (occasional) commitment to personal freedoms, is tricky.

I for one welcome our new Bible Overlords, and I propose a motto which I'm sure will be well received:

Less sexuality, more Crucifixion!

(or insert suffering preference of choice, i.e. guilty sinfulness, judgement of others, hating your neighbor, telling everyone you know God's will, poorly translating the text, etc.)
posted by ewkpates at 1:42 PM on November 19, 2004

They can take my porn when they pry it from my scaly, jizz-covered hand!
posted by spilon at 1:45 PM on November 19, 2004

A friend of mine once claimed that addiction is one of the most common forms of our interaction with the world. If you think about it, we get addicted to all kinds of things: are you addicted to makeup if you wear it every day and feel naked without it? Are you addicted to television if you watch every night? Are you addicted to your boyfriend if you become terribly sad when away from him for a week? When is a habitual behavior an addiction - we often experience something akin to withdrawl when we stop, but so what?

You could argue that something becomes one when it interferes with your "normal" life, but maybe your normal life is just another series of addictions. At some point one's viewership of porn might cause more pain than pleasure, on the other hand I've known some habitual marijuana smokers who were arguably addicted, but they enjoyed it and it didn't prevented them from doing interesting things with their lives and having good relationships.
posted by mai at 1:46 PM on November 19, 2004

FUCK THE GOVERNMENT!

ick, well I certainly wouldn't pay to watch that one. If they're submitting anyway, heh.
posted by Peter H at 1:48 PM on November 19, 2004

but...but...they might close down my web site! guns=ok; booze=ok; smokes=ok. But we need billboards to warn about tits and ass? Can I still lunch at Hooters?
posted by Postroad at 1:51 PM on November 19, 2004

But if porn is outlawed, then only outlaws will have porn...

And everyone knows that outlaw porn is ten times as exciting!
posted by SweetJesus at 1:57 PM on November 19, 2004

Without the pron, how are they going to keep the masses dumbified?


posted by papercake at 1:57 PM on November 19, 2004

mai: You could argue that, but only if you stretch the definition of addiction so far that it becomes meaningless. If I get hungry, it's not because I'm addicted to food; if I miss my son when he's away, it's not because I'm addicted to my kid. We're more than a bunch of chemical reactions going on between the molecules of our brains.

There is no doubt that study data supports the connection between sexual stimulus and a "crack like" euphoria in the male brain.

I think you mean 'the human brain' here, ewkpates-- last time I checked women liked sexual stimulus too.
posted by jokeefe at 1:59 PM on November 19, 2004

But we need billboards to warn about tits and ass? Can I still lunch at Hooters?

Sure, Poster! Hooters ain't porn, and you're crazy and a communist to think so.

Naw, that's just good ole fashioned "girls who think stripping is beneath 'em so they put on ill-fitting orange shorts and undersized t-shirts with owls on'em instead" American fun!

And hey, there's wings and college football on the big-screen teevee!

Aw, shit. Now I'm hungry.
posted by chicobangs at 2:00 PM on November 19, 2004

So let's get this straight, thousands of leading scientists claim that global warming is occurring and the Bush administration dismisses it as not happening.

Day-after pills are put up for approval, and one member of the federal board claims it needs more study, despite the other members having no issues with it's approval so the majority is over-ridden and the pill isn't approved because that's what the administration wants.

The slightest mention of porn being bad for you and committees are formed? I think the porn industry needs some better lobbyists.
posted by inthe80s at 2:07 PM on November 19, 2004

The human body is exactly as the good Lord made it... shameful and dirty!
posted by ticopelp at 2:09 PM on November 19, 2004

I just hope that the people in the anti-porn ads are hot. So I can masterbate to'em. The irony alone might get me off.
posted by graventy at 2:13 PM on November 19, 2004

Hooters: A Case Study .pdf of a Fortune magazine story
____________________

Selling sex is one of the oldest businesses in the world, and right now, business has never been better.
One of the biggest cultural changes in the United States over the past 25 years has been the widespread acceptance of sexually explicit material - pornography.
In the space of a generation, a product that once was available in the back alleys of big cities has gone corporate, delivered now directly into homes and hotel rooms by some of the biggest companies in the United States.
It is estimated that Americans now spend somewhere around $10 billion a year on adult entertainment, which is as much as they spend attending professional sporting events, buying music or going out to the movies.

___________

Porn Industry Knows Its Worth
posted by matteo at 2:14 PM on November 19, 2004

If Mary Anne Layden can prove that addiction to porn is destroying lives it moves porn toward unprotected speech. At that point, we are all f*cked. Or un-f*cked in this case.
posted by badger_flammable at 2:20 PM on November 19, 2004

The connection isn't spurious; an addiciton to porn is the same as an addiction to heroin in a lot of relevant respects. But so are addictions to booze, gambling, anorexic behavior, work, and surfing metafilter, (and also depression, I would argue), so it's misleading to single out porn.

There's a common conception that drug addictions are chemical, and addictions to higher-level concepts like gambling aren't... they're psychological. This isn't right. There's quite a bit of research that suggests that all these addictions have neuroanatomical similarities. The content of addiction is pretty variable. Dr. Howard Schaffer at the Harvard Medical School is at the forefront of this research. Cross-addiction is a good indication that the content of an addiction isn't that important: when a person enters a 12-step program (or some other form of therapy) and beats one addiction, they'll often slip into some other addiction (eg. they might go from being drug abusers to being sexaholics). That isn't too surprising in some ways: we often talk about people having addictive personailties. Moreover, the same drugs are pretty reliable in treating addictions no matter what the content. SSRIs work pretty well.

The best work in this field is, I think, done by Dr. George Ainslie. I was planning to make a FPP on Ainslie's picoeconomic theory of motivational conflict once my posting privileges open up, but there just isn't that much web material on it.

jokeefe, you *could* become addicted to food or to your child in such a way that it should be considered an addiction. High-level concepts can be objects of clinical addiction just like anything else.
posted by painquale at 2:26 PM on November 19, 2004

(laughs) ticopelp made a very funny first post. Howdy.
posted by Peter H at 2:27 PM on November 19, 2004

Comparing fundamentalism to heroin, researchers are calling on Congress to finance studies on “Bible addiction” and launch a public health campaign about its dangers...

Internet fundamentalism is corrupting children and hooking adults into an addiction that threatens their jobs and families...

...fundamentalism’s effect on the brain mirrors addiction to heroin or crack cocaine. She told of one patient, a business executive, who arrived at his office at 9 a.m. each day, logged onto Christian sites, and didn’t log off until 5 p.m.

“We’re so afraid to talk about religion in our society that we really give carte blanche to the people who are producing this kind of material,”...

...studies show that prolonged fundamentalism leads to “sexual callousness, the erosion of family values and diminished sexual satisfaction.”

It's better than Mad Libs! Try it!
posted by gimonca at 2:28 PM on November 19, 2004

"Some of his middle-age male friends limit their time alone in hotel rooms to avoid the temptation of graphic pay-per-view movies." -- Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Kan., chairman of the Commerce subcommittee on science.

BWAHAHAHAHA!
posted by fleener at 2:43 PM on November 19, 2004

First, What Pardonyou? said..

Second.. From Jasper411=> "try to mess around with legal definitions of what's good versus bad sexually arousing materials is doomed to fail, IMO."

Bungling something that's doomed to failure never stoped politicians before...
It wouldn't suprise me in the slightest if it were found out that Government types (Senators, Conressmen, Judges, Presidents) are MORE prone to pornography than the masses statistically, But they are the ones who will be first to decry it a sin, and forbid it to the people, while ramping up their own consumption.

And finally, Third, What Spilon said!! "They can take my porn when they pry it from my scaly, jizz-covered hand!"

I think they are taunting the revolution, myself.... Have been for a long time...
posted by Balisong at 2:44 PM on November 19, 2004

At that point, we are all f*cked. Or un-f*cked in this case.

That's fucked.
posted by eyeballkid at 2:45 PM on November 19, 2004

There's a common conception that drug addictions are chemical, and addictions to higher-level concepts like gambling aren't... they're psychological. This isn't right.

Or, it's right, but a distinction without a difference, since psychology is chemical.

We're more than a bunch of chemical reactions going on between the molecules of our brains.

I find this unlikely.
posted by kindall at 2:46 PM on November 19, 2004

Of course I fucking meant "fucked" in fucking quotes.
posted by eyeballkid at 2:47 PM on November 19, 2004

The human body is exactly as the good Lord made it... shameful and dirty!

Hey ticopelp, your're sounding kind of French, been reading a bit too much Rousseau perhaps?
posted by milovoo at 2:50 PM on November 19, 2004

Brownback said scientific data is needed to help his cause.

Quick...send some scientific data.
posted by srboisvert at 2:56 PM on November 19, 2004

yup as opposed to unscientific data, as hairy palm, blindness and voting *insert your hated party here*
posted by elpapacito at 3:00 PM on November 19, 2004

This is all because Kinsey is opening today, isn't it?
posted by solistrato at 3:03 PM on November 19, 2004

They can take my porn when they pry it from my scaly, jizz-covered hand!

I propose a new lobby group, the NPA perhaps. Ron Jeremy as chairperson. Shit that industry is huge, they gotta be able to buy some influence.
posted by isthisthingon at 3:09 PM on November 19, 2004

Something must be done about all those people who are addicted to scrutinizing other peoples' "vices". O the dopamine rush of second-hand prurience!
posted by davy at 3:10 PM on November 19, 2004

Shit that industry is huge, they gotta be able to buy some influence.

I don't see the Democrats trying to, ahem, ride that particular horse. nor do I think that they should. "family values" and "decency" and all that crap -- American voters like that a lot
posted by matteo at 3:16 PM on November 19, 2004

Wait, I'm confused... porn is as bad as drugs, drugs are as bad as porn; porn is legal; are they arguing for drug legalization or something?

Right on!
posted by rkent at 3:17 PM on November 19, 2004

Ron Jeremy as chairperson. that industry is huge

Pun intended, right?
posted by Peter H at 3:34 PM on November 19, 2004

They are joking right? With these warning bus stops etc. 'The state' has never been able to quite grasp the concept of fighting the demand rather than the supply of drugs. I don't see them suddenly catching on with pornography. And the idea of them restricting the supply of porn is laughable.

Personally I hope they ban it all, it's always better if there's a risk of getting caught.

And oh yeah, umm, pun intended, right.
posted by isthisthingon at 3:41 PM on November 19, 2004

American voters like that a lot

The irony there though is the same family-minded, morality fightin' superheroes are most likely the same people investing the $$ in porn.

I'm thinking repressed fantasies, unsatisfied urges etc. Why is there more porn options in hotel selection than actual movies?

Why else would they hide the name of the movie on the bill?

As for porn addiction, whatever. We live in a compulsive society and it is just one outlet for obsession. Gambling, smoking, drinking, drugs, shopping, sports, stamp collecting, needlework, metafilter etc. etc. can all be obsessive "hobbies". The only reason this one is supposedly problematic is that it falls outside of some kind of invisible moral boundary that apparently makes it evil.
posted by purephase at 3:49 PM on November 19, 2004

The problem is an addiction to unhealthy religion.

That's what it boils down to.

Of all the things that need banning in this society, religion must be number one for all the harm it causes innocent bystanders.
posted by five fresh fish at 3:54 PM on November 19, 2004

or what gimonca said...
posted by five fresh fish at 3:56 PM on November 19, 2004

I can't afford a porn addiction. I'm to busy fighting my addiction to cross-dressing.
posted by expriest at 4:23 PM on November 19, 2004

The problem is an addiction to unhealthy religion.

Could I vote to change that statement to:

The problem is unhealthy people causing an addition to religion.
posted by Hands of Manos at 4:25 PM on November 19, 2004

Hooters has "wings and college football on the big-screen teevee!"

A local nudie bar (which I have no financial interest in and have never been inside) has that too: http://www.trixies.com.
posted by davy at 4:32 PM on November 19, 2004

These dogmatic dicksmacks make me want to vomit. Any law or regulation that causes the least bit of inconvenience to a corporation is dropped like a hot rock. But let an ordinary citizen engage in a legal, private activity that offends the oversize bag of repression that forms the brain of these chicken-fucking littles must be stamped out!! For the good of our great jesus-lovin nation!!!

Can we please just start shooting them now? Pleeeeze??
posted by groundhog at 4:43 PM on November 19, 2004

And the idea of them restricting the supply of porn is laughable.

While the idea of them successfully restricting the supply of porn is laughable, (hell, find someone else and make it live [not that they haven't banned that, contingent on which two people do it]) the idea of them adding it to the big list of consensual "crimes" is not.

According to the wikipedia article on pornography the first country to make it legal was Denmark, and that wasn't until 1966. In the UK, it wasn't officially legal until '99. In the United States, it's still illegal if it's obscene (which it almost never is). Sidenote: anyone ever wonder why they don't say the first country to make it re-legal? I mean, it was presumably legal at some time.

Personally I hope they ban it all, it's always better if there's a risk of getting caught.

However, it's definitely not better when you are. Ask a drug user that's been in jail whether the laws make drug use better. Or maybe ask someone jailed on sodomy charges. I'm not saying you won't get a few takers, but I don't think you'll get many.
posted by nTeleKy at 4:52 PM on November 19, 2004

She told of one patient, a business executive, who arrived at his office at 9 a.m. each day, logged onto Internet porn sites, and didn’t log off until 5 p.m.

HTTP is a connectionless protocol. Log on to that.

Does this mean we can now prosecute Kenneth Starr for publishing porn?

Damned old dirty sex! Causes all kinds of problems. People didn't used to do that back in the good old days of McCarthy and commie pinkos.

I think NASCAR is addictive and causes people to do weird shit. Can we spend soem taxpayer money on a hearing about that?
posted by nofundy at 5:03 PM on November 19, 2004

And another thing, what's this eroto-toxins shit they're talking about?
Don't they fucking know that the release of endorphins is good for you?
50% of Americans are below average intelligence and that's a low bar to start with. :-)
posted by nofundy at 5:07 PM on November 19, 2004

Aren't the people most harmed by pornography were the models and actors who are sometimes coerced into it? (not that everyone who is a porn worker is forced into it, I realize that.)

i know you sufficed that with the disclaimer, but it's gotta be the only industry where the women get paid much more than the men for comparable work. i think that while pornography can potentially be socially degrading, it can also be extremely financially lucrative.

imo, there's something wrong in restricting the only good-paying job that an uneducated woman can get (oh yeah, except for stripping). i realize that the industry isn't squeaky clean, but i think that a lot of porn stars like their jobs.
posted by mrgrimm at 5:25 PM on November 19, 2004

the vast majority of us not only don't become addicted, but actually (gasp) find these things enjoyable, and they actually enrich our life experiences.

I know my life was vastly enriched...back in the day when I was working under the name of Bambi McMelons.

So does this mean that Hustler magazine will now come with a warning sticker?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:40 PM on November 19, 2004

Peter H, thank you and hello. milovoo... mais non.
posted by ticopelp at 5:43 PM on November 19, 2004

The pleasure centers of the human brain can be accessed all kinds of ways, by spiritual arrogance, by hatred, by vindictiveness, by revenge, by lust, by love, by meditation, by drugs, by alcohol, by any activity that the brain associates with pleasure.

Obviously feelings of religious righteousness associated with pleasure, are the single most dangerous addiction of our time, followed by violence for pleasure, followed by socio-religious discrimination for pleasure, followed by even more violence for pleasure.

Deprived and hungry people go through the same neuro metamorphosis that anorexics do, for them dying nobly, is just a pleasant step into a painless and passionless state.

Pornography, I guess that's what's on the mind of the US legislators, and it gives them more pleasure to be right, than porn gives them. That is a harsh sentence. It is all the same to me. Here's to better neurochemistry!
posted by Oyéah at 5:49 PM on November 19, 2004

What is wrong with being addicted to porn?
posted by lee at 5:52 PM on November 19, 2004

The inherent puritanism of this nation rears it's misguided and morally ass backwards head once again. (Yep. Pun intended).

I mean if you want to stop pornography in it's tracks why not just outlaw masturbation?? Or how about sexual attraction and simply stop this evil disease at it's source. Maybe make it a terrorist crime and ship people to Guantanamo for wanking off? I know I'd think twice.

I do think Porno-as-nudie-pics does mess with peoples ability to have real and satisfying relationships, but how do you stop that. It's a much more complex issue. Pornography has basically pervaded all elements of culture. Look at the aesthetics and semiotic signifiers in the marketing that inundates us every freakin day. From CNN to yogurt to reality TV. In the end Porno-as-nudie pics" is just the most obvious manifestation of a general Pornographic zeitgeist that is the cheapening of all that is good and sacred for the big $$$.

This sort of political onanism, produces cultural riddles that can't be sussed out by the idiots doing the investigation of it because they're not asking the right questions and it begins to uncover the glaring hypocrisy inherent in a government that tries to legislate on those things that they have no business legislating upon. I think it will most likely quiet down and go away because no one will know what to do with it. Either that or some persons or persons with no connections to money or influence and arty intentions will be made an example of and it'll be another bone thrown out to the "moral values" mafia. Like wise this could also be the making of a Gay Marriage-like issue Part 2, being readied by the GOP for the midterm elections in 2006.

"Money" The Novel by Martin Amis has an awesome take on all this that I wish I could post here, but sadly I lent it out and have no idea who I lent it to. (D'uh). If you've read it and know what I'm talking about, could you post it. Thx. If you haven't read it and like black humor and fucked up protagonists with your cultural critique then you should pick it up.
posted by Skygazer at 5:55 PM on November 19, 2004

What disturbs me more than anything is the recent trend toward government-as-moral-judge. Aren't republicans supposed to be against intrusive government? All those folks who voted for Bush based on "moral values" seem to think differently.
posted by scarabic at 6:06 PM on November 19, 2004

Just wanted to make clear, that although I think Porno-as-nudie pics can mess up knowing how to properly relate to women, it is nowhere near as egregious as the Pornographic hypercapitalist zeitgiest that pervades everything else anyway.

It's actually more honest and can sometimes even teach good sexual positions.
posted by Skygazer at 6:13 PM on November 19, 2004

ship people to Guantanamo for wanking off

Given that there are allegations that inmates in Guantanamo were tortured by interrogative dry humping that could be a win-win situation.
posted by srboisvert at 6:26 PM on November 19, 2004

srboisvert: Not to mention all the hookers they flew in!
posted by mek at 6:31 PM on November 19, 2004

the public is beginning to realize “they don’t just have to take it.”

that's right, they don't ... they can just turn it off

the real problem with pornography as an addiction, as far as some in the government are concerned, is that it interferes with addictions that they find much more useful for the people to have
posted by pyramid termite at 7:06 PM on November 19, 2004

She told of one patient, a business executive, who arrived at his office at 9 a.m. each day, logged onto Internet porn sites, and didn’t log off until 5 p.m.

This is actually true. I used to work for this guy. Actually, come to think of it, I don't think he was even that productive. And I don't think he ever even stayed until 5:00.
posted by qantrell at 7:45 PM on November 19, 2004

I am no fan of porn, which I believe to be the Doritos of sex--unhealthy, artificial, and fills up the space that should be occupied by something actually nourishing.

However, neither porn nor Doritos should be made illegal. And why is it such a fucking tragedy when one possibly-apocryphal executive spends eight hours looking at porn, when the average US teenager spends 20 hours a week watching television?

I'm all for providing support programs to people who want to recover from addictive behaviors. The thing is, though, that the US can't find enough money to pay for all the heroin and crack addicts who desperately want recovery services! I've never heard of some executive mugging someone so that he could buy "Juggs" or whatever, so couldn't we take care of the folks whose addictions are causing huge social problems first? Please?

On preview: What qantrell said. I had a work superior once (I refused to work for him, so we both reported to the president, but he was higher on the ladder than I) who never did any work, ever. He spent the entire day on the phone with his wife or writing personal stuff on his computer. If he was crazy in a slightly different way, I can easily imagine him looking at 8 hours a day of porn.
posted by Sidhedevil at 7:54 PM on November 19, 2004

does anyone who knows more about this understand what the addicts are getting out of it if they're not using it sexually?

I believe some pr0n viewers get the same kind of aesthetic enjoyment one might find in any art form. (Okay, I doubt the value of abstract sculpture and hip-hop myself, but I do see that they're technically "art.")

Some people are even "sophisticated" enough to critique it a la Ebert.
posted by davy at 8:46 PM on November 19, 2004

As a marketing person, it would be an interesting challenge to create an effective "anti-porn" (if that's what it is) campaign, since the idea that this might be a problem seems to invite immediate and widespread derision. I did appreciate the point that "our lives are a series of addictions". How true, how sad. What about all the mindless hours lost to watching football? It boils down to acknowledging that we have a limited amount of time on the planet, and being responsible for how they are spent. Most of us misspend too many hours.

Whether or not online porn is a "problem" should depend less on searching the Bible and more on comparing time spent with porn vs. time spent with other diversions, although that's tricky. Comparing online porn to, say, TV, means we have to differentiate between "non-porn" TV and "porn" offerings. Same with magazines, movies, etc. What is porn, where's the line? Wasn't it a judge who said, "I can't define porn, but I know it when I see it?"

I believe anything we spend $10 billion on, and countless hours watching, probably DOES merit a study. Porn is an escape. What we are escaping from and what the results are, are things probably worth knowing.

Aside from those comments, I am essentially in agreement with Tom Lehrer (http://members.aol.com/quentncree/lehrer/smut.htm) regarding porn.
posted by humannature at 8:56 PM on November 19, 2004

annie sprinkle, comparing sex to food:
"REALISE THAT SEX IS LIKE FOOD
Many people are shutting down their sexuality because they have come to realize that they had a lot of addictive and self-destructive behaviour around sex. But you have a choice, just like you do with what you eat. The way I see it, there is junk sex, health sex, and gourmet sex."
___________________________________
this is not to say that some people do not have an addiction to pr0n-- indeed, if it's causing unmanageability in one's life, there should be available modalities to treat it. But some exec (as sidhedevil pointed out, perhaps apocryphal) isn't representative of the large majority of people that are healthy, well-adjusted, and able to make their own choices without having a theocratic, morally-legislating wackadoo gov't. telling them what they can and cannot watch or enjoy, especially as it relates to one of the most unique and defining facets of human existence.
posted by exlotuseater at 9:46 PM on November 19, 2004

oh, and one other thing, re: "I know what it is when I see it."
Pornography is an argument, an idea, not an actual concrete thing. Who is able to conclusively define what pornography is and is not? Is a Henry Miller novel porn? What about Anaï s Nin? Nabokov? Playboy/Playgirl? Spice Channel? Barely Legal #4675 ? High-Heeled shoes? If you accept that porn is whatever arouses sexually, you've got to ban an awful lot of stuff.

Leggings? Latex? Lip Gloss?

just sayin'.
posted by exlotuseater at 10:05 PM on November 19, 2004

Bullshitfilter.
posted by erratic frog at 11:03 PM on November 19, 2004

This "Porn" - it is known by various names : NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX, NPR.....
posted by troutfishing at 11:32 PM on November 19, 2004

I am no fan of porn, which I believe to be the Doritos of sex--unhealthy, artificial, and fills up the space that should be occupied by something actually nourishing. However, neither porn nor Doritos should be made illegal

This would make an awesome bumper sticker. I love it. Unfortunately, it would be one of those extra-wide bumper stickers with the really small print, like that thing about the bake sale and the air force that I can never quite make out.

Ah well. I love it anyway.
posted by scarabic at 1:13 AM on November 20, 2004

i'm looking at porn right now.
posted by NationalKato at 1:43 AM on November 20, 2004

Let's try this on for a bit of makeshift logic:
Porn = seeing humans in various states of undress for the purpose of arousal.

Prohibiting porn = regulating states of undress to avoid arousal.

regulated dress code for the purpose of sexual moralism = burkha.

Why aren't feminist groups going berzerk over this?
posted by spazzm at 4:03 AM on November 20, 2004

From Slashdot:

Internet Porn isn't as addictive as Crack

Because I've downloaded internet porn while smoking crack and so I can say from first hand experience (and later, second hand) that when my DSL went down I was pissed BUT I didn't get out of my chair until the crack ran out.
posted by Tommy Gnosis at 4:49 AM on November 20, 2004

This would make an awesome bumper sticker. I love it. Unfortunately, it would be one of those extra-wide bumper stickers with the really small print, like that thing about the bake sale and the air force that I can never quite make out.

PORN IS LIKE DORITOS
But both should be legal

Snappy!
posted by kindall at 7:11 AM on November 20, 2004

Where can I sign up to be a pr0ncop? Surfing the net all day, looking for the vile stuff. . .

(of course for be really productive at this new job, I am going to have to have my own private office.)
posted by Danf at 8:26 AM on November 20, 2004

Anything worth doing is worth over-doing.
posted by Enron Hubbard at 8:46 AM on November 20, 2004

Where can I sign up to be a pr0ncop? Surfing the net all day, looking for the vile stuff. . .

(of course for be really productive at this new job, I am going to have to have my own private office.)

In my heyday (late '70s - early '80s) porn was sold openly, but masturbation was a shameful secret. It was like admitting you could find no woman, no man, and no goat who'd settle for you for 10 minutes.
posted by davy at 9:16 AM on November 20, 2004

Erototoxins? These people are nuts.
posted by euphorb at 9:53 AM on November 20, 2004

If porn is outlawed then Madison Avenue is fucked. Sex sells.
posted by nofundy at 10:11 AM on November 20, 2004

Sweetjesus: What happens if you're addicted to both heroin and porn?

You get to run for public office.
posted by Skygazer at 10:17 AM on November 20, 2004

Oh, come on now, it's not a SERIOUS antipr0n crusade without Andrea "I'm Clincially Psychotic but That Shouldn't Stop You From Taking what I Say Seriously!" Dworkin mouthing off, so I wouldn't worry too much...
posted by JollyWanker at 10:19 AM on November 20, 2004

Lately, it seems there has been a trend in politics where if the politician can't personally deal with a problem that they end up passing allow to force them to abstain. For example, in Wisconsin, the state wants to pass a law that would force the legislature to curtail spending- instead of just curtailing spending.

It's somewhat the same with porn. There are groups that could help one deal with porn addiction, but it seems like instead of allowing anyone to take personal responsibility, that the government will step in.
posted by drezdn at 10:20 AM on November 20, 2004

It's not controversial when government tries to do something about gambling addiction.

That depends on what they do. As a serious poker player, I can assure you that the government has done a lot of incredibly stupid things in the name of gambling addiction.

My personal favorite hypocricy are states where it's legal to play the lottery (the ultimate sucker bet), or slot machines (a close second), but not to play poker or blackjack.
posted by mosch at 10:28 AM on November 20, 2004

Porn makes me all hot and tingly in my no-no places. Zesty Doritos make my tongue tingle. Maybe it's the tingle that should be banned.
posted by deborah at 10:44 AM on November 20, 2004

The tingle is Satan ringing the doorbell to your soul.
posted by Skygazer at 11:11 AM on November 20, 2004

porn has its time and place. it's not inherently "bad". but like anything else it can become an addiction, an obsession, and can lead to "undesirable" behaviour in order to satisfy. but it's not up to the government to tell us what to do and think. american government always seems so intent on regulating public morality. lighten up, it's just sex.
posted by yedgar at 8:37 PM on November 20, 2004

If you accept that porn is whatever arouses sexually, you've got to ban an awful lot of stuff.



Not trying to say anything bad about Islam in particular here, but just pointing out that targeting the "supply-side" of arousal has been attempted on a pretty large scale before. Personally, I think it's easier to just work on the demand but what do I know? =)
posted by idontlikewords at 2:06 PM on November 21, 2004

That chick in the middle is hawt!
Comparatively speaking...
posted by inpHilltr8r at 3:13 PM on November 21, 2004

Like this is the most important issue of the day...what does it take to keep their base happy--a Department of Morality? jeez!jizz!
posted by amberglow at 6:48 PM on November 21, 2004