G-Dub, keepin' it RAL! posted by ColdChef at 8:24 PM on November 21, 2004
I'm sure everyone is going to jump in and be all "Oh Bush, he's a hick and a thug", but I don't think he did anything wrong here. His friend, and more importantly, his protection, got left behind in a crowd. He rescued the guy. What else was he supposed to do? I can support it, or least I don't feel the need to denounce it. posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:26 PM on November 21, 2004 [1 favorite has favorites]
From the second link: "CNN's Mark Walz had his camera trained on Bush when a thundering herd of Asian reporters hit him in his blind spot."
That's a bizarre way to put it. posted by crawl at 8:27 PM on November 21, 2004
Yep, it's the cowboy way. posted by riffola at 8:27 PM on November 21, 2004
Bizzare, none the less. posted by Hackworth at 8:27 PM on November 21, 2004
seems kind of dumb that the chileans would expect him to not bring his SS agent with him. posted by angry modem at 8:28 PM on November 21, 2004
And it's not like Bush was ever without Secret Service protection. There's no way the President of the United States walked into a room without agents already being in there. He just didn't have his special bodyguard with him. posted by crawl at 8:32 PM on November 21, 2004
dubya's like the guy who knows the bouncer and can get anyone into the club regardless of how funny lookin they may be. that being said, he'd also never left the US before his first term if I'm not mistaken so he's bound to feel a bit nekkid without an escort / buddy to watch his back when outside of texas. posted by dawdle at 8:34 PM on November 21, 2004
i was mistaken, he'd been to mexico and spent 3 days in Rome for Thanksgiving with one his daughters in '98.
this guy's the leader of the free world ? *scratching my head* posted by dawdle at 8:39 PM on November 21, 2004
he'd also never left the US before his first term if I'm not mistaken so he's bound to feel a bit nekkid without an escort / buddy to watch his back when outside of texas.
Yes, you're right. He did it all because he had never left the states before being elected. Riiiight.
Sounds like he did what anyone would do. posted by justgary at 8:40 PM on November 21, 2004
seems kind of dumb that the chileans would expect him to not bring his SS agent with him.
Can we stop with the "Bush = Hitler" stuff! posted by Dark Messiah at 8:47 PM on November 21, 2004
It's true, no way would Hitler go back for his boy like that. posted by _sirmissalot_ at 8:48 PM on November 21, 2004
He certaintly never left the states to help with any wars or anything.
But boy can he fly a fighterjet! posted by Jerub at 8:51 PM on November 21, 2004
Dark Messiah, SS = secret service, as in, the name of the department that protects the President. posted by Arch Stanton at 8:51 PM on November 21, 2004
I thought it was a pretty good way to resolve the situation. posted by smackfu at 8:51 PM on November 21, 2004
As a penis, would George W. Bush be most like a bear penis, an orca penis, or a racoon penis ?
Look, tensions were already very high, and the Chileans weren't helping by throwing beer and popcorn on-- whoops wrong thread. posted by Scoo at 8:56 PM on November 21, 2004
Personally, I think he did good here. He was willin' to jump in and take care of his own. Don't really see how that could be a bad thing. posted by Lafe at 8:56 PM on November 21, 2004
Does this mean he'll be suspended for the rest of the season? posted by rdub at 9:01 PM on November 21, 2004
Dark Messiah, yes, we all know it was his grandfather, Prescott who was "Hitleresque" (Hitlery? Help me out here). posted by dwordle at 9:02 PM on November 21, 2004
What would have happened if ANY leader from ANY other country did something similar in the US? The secret service would have a field day!! I'm sure it would escalate past dragging someones buddy through a blocking line... posted by Balisong at 9:07 PM on November 21, 2004
Yeee Haw! Don't fuck with my body guards! posted by George W. Bush at 9:11 PM on November 21, 2004
What would have happened if ANY leader from ANY other country did something similar in the US?
Who cares? George Bush is the President of the Free World. Everybody else is just a Turkmanbashi wannabee. posted by crazy finger at 9:15 PM on November 21, 2004
I don't like Bush, but I fail to see what's such a big deal about this "scuffle" situation. I'd be more concerned about the whole thing being called off because they couldn't come to an agreement about security issues. Not exactly painting a good picture of diplomacy if you can't even agree on dinner. posted by nightchrome at 9:15 PM on November 21, 2004
Yeee Haw! Don't fuck with my body guards!
We take back everything we've ever said about you. posted by drezdn at 9:17 PM on November 21, 2004
Not exactly painting a good picture of diplomacy if you can't even agree on dinner.
Well, at least this wasn't another 1/8/1991 moment.
In Japan, dinner disagrees with you! posted by dwordle at 9:30 PM on November 21, 2004
I figure for shit like this, there is no reason every politician shouldn't have their own bodyguard. Whatever. Good for you Bush, you made sure you had your bodyguard. Seems reasonable. I mean, it proves he is aware of his surroundings, which means he's in an advanced stage of consciousness. This is excellent news.
Meanwhile--
I think it's a bit much that the SS (HOLY SHIT HITLER REBORN) goes around and insists other countries run everything through elaborate mega airport security sequences. I mean, I know Jesus was implanted in his chest cavity by the Queen Alien, but that doesn't mean that Bush needs every soveriegn nation on earth to go through such elaborate security measures.
Oh man, isn't it crazy that Arnold is the governor of Califnornia? Is it really possible to watch Predator the same way ever again?
Sorry for that tangent. I type whatever pops into my head. Sassy banana pants. Shit, see what I mean? posted by Kleptophoria! at 9:38 PM on November 21, 2004
I can't stand the guy, at all.
However, I still see nothing wrong with his actions.
Nothing wrong with not leaving someone behind who should not be left behind.
The CHilean Security folks were asses for attempting that stunt in the first place. posted by erratic frog at 9:42 PM on November 21, 2004
Kleptophoria! ( "SS (HOLY SHIT HITLER REBORN)" ) - You're just high on Metafilter. It'll go away. posted by troutfishing at 9:47 PM on November 21, 2004
"Who cares? George Bush is the President of the Free World."
Sorry, but the Free World has washed their hands of him.
Bush is now just the President of the Divided States of America. posted by insomnia_lj at 9:48 PM on November 21, 2004
erratic frog - I heard the Chileans felt all patriotic about this. I wonder why ? posted by troutfishing at 9:48 PM on November 21, 2004
Leave no Secret Service agent behind. posted by gyc at 9:49 PM on November 21, 2004
This is going to play very well in Jesusland (red America). Maybe one of his other agents should have tried to physically block him, providing a moment of let-me-at-em scuffle with the president's sleeves half rolled-up, tie jerked loose. And Laura should have held his jacket.
The hateful dimwit played this one in top form. posted by squirrel at 10:03 PM on November 21, 2004
Bush is now just the President of the Divided States of America.
Since George Washington, what President hasn't been "President of the Divided States of America"? None of them have been elected unanimously since. posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 10:03 PM on November 21, 2004
Bush is now just the President of the Divided States of America.
As opposed to other elections, where the elected president received 100 % of the vote. posted by justgary at 10:04 PM on November 21, 2004
Oh man, are people going to be mad if I never get un-high?
Re: Divided States of America
Too clever a joke name to sit well with me. It would work better with many extra exclamation marks and perhaps random capitalization. It's too gimicky for me. posted by Kleptophoria! at 10:14 PM on November 21, 2004
Yeee Haw! Don't fuck with my body guards!
Fuckin' new users.
I think we can safely file this under "Who gives a shit?" posted by Civil_Disobedient at 10:18 PM on November 21, 2004
Why is everybody making such a big deal about our prez getting into a soufflé? Doesn't everybody love this fluffy delicacy? I swear, it's almost like you guys are accusing him of getting into a --
I agree w/most. Isolated, this feels like a nonevent.
That said, some of the details strike me as odd. I bet some diplomatic dinner that involves heads of states must be meticulously planned. Every detail has got to be fine tuned-including how the POTUS is going to walk into the building and whom with. How come the chaos?
The way Link#2 explains, US officials were all ready referring to summit as a "wrestling smackdown." One event detailed a mob of Asian reporters interrupting a meeting including the prez and unspecified foreign leaders.
A CNN camera man was thrown from his ladder perch and his later comments made the event sound unusually messy. I wonder why all the violence around the prez?
one more strange detail. Why did Link#1 describe the postscuffle prez as looking "irritated" and Link #2 say "extremely satisfied?"
(also First. Comment. Ever.) posted by firemouth at 10:55 PM on November 21, 2004
Maybe it's because I'm a yahoo from Texas, but this sort of thing is exactly why I voted for the man. posted by PaulTX at 10:57 PM on November 21, 2004
That video is totally and completely boring. Could someone come up with an obnoxious flash animation that is based on the Chilean account? Preferably including cowboy hat and some obviously white actors in facepaint portraying Chileans.
Sure, this approach worked great with a no-nonsense get-things-done approach. But remember, sometimes there are facts and opinions that get brushed away as nonsense, and it's really damn unhard to undo things once done. If it took a couple minutes to notice and ten seconds or so to act, then shouldn't reaction time be, I don't know, the amount of consideration be proportional with importance?
See, now I've written a vague allusion after reading about a non-event. Damn you, mefi. posted by mikeh at 11:21 PM on November 21, 2004
What a non-issue. George Bush Walks To Door And Points At Agent. I think GDub did exactly what any sane and rational person would do under those circumstances, namely make sure his bodyguard makes it through the door security.
Is this the place where we're all supposed to start hemming and hawing about how Bush is such a cowboy and a bully? No? I must be at the wrong MetaFilter... posted by rooftop secrets at 11:30 PM on November 21, 2004
I think GDub did exactly what any sane and rational person would do under those circumstances
Except that it's being salivatingly written up by starry-eyed WaPo reporters. 2000, deja vu. posted by Firas at 11:42 PM on November 21, 2004 [1 favorite has favorites]
Well at least this way, when the second onerous term is behind us, we can overlook our differences with W., embrace a peaceful nostalgia, and remember that time he saved that security guard in Chile. God we were really on the crest then! USA! posted by superposition at 11:43 PM on November 21, 2004
High-school interview from last year with the agent who got pulled through, Nick Trotta. posted by iffley at 12:24 AM on November 22, 2004
I've seen a lot of John Wayne movies, and President Bush was definitely acting like a cowboy. posted by shoos at 12:24 AM on November 22, 2004
Isn't that sad? I mean these Chilean reporters sitting around watching John Wayne movies. posted by shoos at 12:27 AM on November 22, 2004
"I'm sure everyone is going to jump in and be all "Oh Bush, he's a hick and a thug", but I don't think he did anything wrong here."
Further -- it sounds like he did everything right. posted by nthdegx at 12:46 AM on November 22, 2004
Is it just me or does Nick Trotta have a pretty sweet moustache... posted by alpinist at 1:01 AM on November 22, 2004
PaulTX's reaction is going to be a common one. It was a very likeable move, and fits into the code that is appreciated in those (yes) red states -- flouting of protocol, unflappability, just-solve-it. Regardless of domestic political impact, this incident combined with others means that Chile is going to get a black eye for its handling of the summit. These things are planned in meticulous detail for months -- the low-level staffers from member countries who meet during that period to plan the summit aren't called sherpas for nothing. How the details of mission-critical presidential security could have escaped is going to be closely examined. Likely the right thing was planned and known, with this being merely a failure of communication -- or if the WaPo account bears out, appalling violation of protocol by Chilean security -- but it's going to be one that will not be repeated soon by any host country.
Anyway, I don't think Bush got into a scuffle. The Secret Service agent got into a scuffle -- headlocks between armed guards seems pretty serious -- and Bush pulled him out. posted by dhartung at 1:28 AM on November 22, 2004
it's not clear - even here - why the chilean security didn't want to let the bodyguards through. one thing that was in the local news, but doesn't seem to have popped up otherwise, is that there was an entourage - 6 or 7 - initially, and that only one got through in the end. so maybe the agreement was for one bodyguard, not a posse?
the chilean president is a socialist, was one of many who had to leave the country after the (american supported) military coup, and is no doubt sympathetic to the many (thousands) of people protesting against the presence of bush here (something that is often reported as anti-apec, yet we live opposite the japanese embassy and there are no protests - not even heightened security - there). so i doubt he cares much - no more than he has to, given his job - about bush.
yankee go home. as it says on all the walls round here. posted by andrew cooke at 1:46 AM on November 22, 2004
What a fucking crock of shit. He went and stood behind the backs of about 10 struggling people. Big fucking deal. "Singlehandedly rescued" - my ass.
This is how stupid presidents die. If they see some kind of scrum going on, and their agents struggling against an intruder, shouldn't they move *away* from the melee? Duh... posted by scarabic at 1:57 AM on November 22, 2004
intruder? posted by shoos at 2:05 AM on November 22, 2004
On the NHK news network here in Japan, they showed the event in slow motion and played Whitney Houston's "I Will Always Love You (Bodyguard Theme)" really loud. It was pretty funny. posted by ejoey at 2:35 AM on November 22, 2004
You mean, people in red states think exactly the same way? There is some standard red state stereotype now? What if Ohio had gone blue? Would this have played well in Ohio then? Will it play well with the 40-45 percent in many red states who didn't vote for Bush? Pray tell.
Flouting of protocol or convention doesn't go so well with some blue-haired old ladies in the Deep South, or old monied men, or many church people. I guess it depends on the meaning of the word "protocol."
That said, Bush did well enough here. Now, get rid of the big-ass deficit, already. posted by raysmj at 3:27 AM on November 22, 2004
*moahahaha* Man ejoey, I wish I had japanese news channels. posted by dabitch at 3:30 AM on November 22, 2004
But, are you really sure that was Bush you were watching? "But those who come after them can take this technology, they can use it for propaganda..."
ejoey: I want to see that clip! posted by DrDoberman at 3:34 AM on November 22, 2004
Speaking as someone from Texas, I wonder about the reality here... As many people have pointed out, these events are always carefully planned. Which makes me wonder how the incident could have even happened. My single question is: was it agreed that Bush could bring that SS agent with him?
I wonder because it seems unlikely to me that Chilean security would have tried to stop him if he'd been authorized. Not saying that its impossible they were just being dicks, but it does sound unlikely. If that agent *wasn't* included in the planning, than the Chileans did the right thing in trying to stop him, and GWB pulled a major gaffe in trying to take him.
But major gaffes are quite rare when dealing with events that carefully planned and choreographed. Which makes me wonder if the whole scuffle thing wasn't planned as a Rovian way to a) Make Bush look tuff, and b) tell the world that America doesn't keep its agreements. Naturally, if the agent *was* supposed to have been allowed in, than Chile really blew it and acted like jackasses. I'm just saying that it seems unlikely to me that the incident wasn't deliberately planned by either Bush's team or the Chilean team. posted by sotonohito at 4:26 AM on November 22, 2004
Since George Washington, what President hasn't been "President of the Divided States of America"? None of them have been elected unanimously since.
Well, the more accurate title "The Pretty-Much-Equally-Divided-Between-Voting-Adults States of America" is a bit unwieldy. posted by the_bone at 4:47 AM on November 22, 2004
All I know is that if you people keep saying Red State/Blue State, I shall have to get mildly peevish. posted by Devils Rancher at 5:35 AM on November 22, 2004
You know what sucks? 50,000 people in Chile protest Bush's visit, and we talk about this. I saw the "scuffle" on the news. Basically it consisted of Bush reaching over a security gaurd into a crowd to get his own security gaurd. It really wasn't that interesting, yet it was given more play on the news than the protests.
Bush can't even visit a country without 50,0000 people showing up to voice their disgust. posted by xammerboy at 5:43 AM on November 22, 2004
Red states / Blue world posted by xammerboy at 5:45 AM on November 22, 2004
on the other hand, sotonohito, it's pretty much a win-win affair. chileans are generally happy to see the local guys make a stand against americans doing whatever they want; bush came out of it looking good (at least from the pov of bush supporters, i would guess); and the relationship between the government and the armed forces/police here is not always that great, but they're probably both pissed off with the american delegation, so happy (for once) to cover each other's backs. posted by andrew cooke at 5:47 AM on November 22, 2004
this article suggests the americans offended everyone minutes after landing (la nacion gives pretty much the government's position on things).
No, Bush didn't "do the right thing". Most guys I'd say yeah, good job, but not the frickin' POTUS. scarabic is exactly right- you want that guy moving away from any kind of violence, at all times.
The saddest thing that will come of this incident is that it will be endlessly replayed and referred to on Fox News in the coming months as a metaphor for Bush's phony "take charge" attitude. The only thing more fitting would have been for Bush to turn to some random person in the crowd and start slugging him. posted by mkultra at 6:29 AM on November 22, 2004
xammerboy shoots...scores! posted by bashos_frog at 6:48 AM on November 22, 2004
so to add to sotonohitos theory, there might be C) a great distraction to keep them darn protestors off the news. posted by dabitch at 6:57 AM on November 22, 2004
There are three ways of handling the situation:
- Pretend to ignore it, hoping that it will resolve itself (the Japanese Approach);
- Become an active participant in the scuffle (the American Approach);
- Or approach the scuffle and make your presence known gently, perhaps through some polite words such as "Pardon me," or "If I might have your attention ..." (the International Approach).
Since this was an international scuffle, it probably would have been wisest to take the International Approach. Maybe next time that is what President Bush will do. posted by Possum at 7:23 AM on November 22, 2004
but this sort of thing is exactly why I voted for the man.
Yeah, you and 59,999,999+ whatever others. Any chance you all can get interested in real issues by 2008? posted by terrapin at 7:25 AM on November 22, 2004
One state, two state, red state/blue state... posted by kyle at 7:29 AM on November 22, 2004
That picture in the WaPo makes it clear that this wasn't really about a "scuffle." Or a "kerfluffle." Or a "fracas," "altercation," "battle royal," "donnybrook," "hassle," or even a "rhubarb." It was about morals. Those two men were obviously about to kiss, and he had to break it up before they were asking for the right to marry.
I'd like to thank thesaurus.com for their assistance in making this post possible. posted by papercake at 7:34 AM on November 22, 2004
Is it really not that big a deal when the POTUS has not one but two run-ins with his international host in a weekend? A state dinner got cancelled over the American security requirements, as explained in the second link ... this on top of the general background to US-Chile relationships posted by magullo at 7:53 AM on November 22, 2004
errr .. make that "friendly" international host posted by magullo at 7:57 AM on November 22, 2004
this whole discussion is dumb. but kyle's comment made me chuckle. DAMN I wish Dr. Seuss were running this country. posted by nanojath at 8:02 AM on November 22, 2004
Yeah, you and 59,999,999+ whatever others. Any chance you all can get interested in real issues by 2008?
Well, there weren't too many issues discussed for most of the election. I heard a lot of drivel about the war and not a lot of talk about domestic issues. Let's face it, Kerry did a piss poor job of attacking Bush on domestic policy, which was supposedly Bush's strong point. Instead the country got sidetracked by Bush's record, swiftboats, and war. posted by Numenorian at 8:22 AM on November 22, 2004
You mean, people in red states think exactly the same way? There is some standard red state stereotype now? What if Ohio had gone blue? Would this have played well in Ohio then? Will it play well with the 40-45 percent in many red states who didn't vote for Bush?
Do you have to go pee? Put down my model airplane.
Pray tell.
I think you residents of Jesusland speak for yourselves, prayerboy. ;^) posted by squirrel at 8:44 AM on November 22, 2004
Can I get my $5 back? The comments here aren't much more clever or insightful than the ones over at FARK. At least you folks can spell Chile/Chilean though. posted by lazymonster at 9:35 AM on November 22, 2004
It was much cooler when American presidents just beat up Canadian prime ministers, instead of getting in fights with random security agents in Chile. posted by Kleptophoria! at 11:00 AM on November 22, 2004
Almost makes me like the little turd. But then I realize that that kind of clankers come from a life of privilege, of never being said 'no' too, and I fall back comfortably into my unreserved loathing of the man.
Whew. That was close.
Can I get my $5 back? The comments here aren't much more clever or insightful than the ones over at FARK.
Congratulations. You're officially part of the problem. Now piss off. posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 1:01 PM on November 22, 2004
Hmm. I think what I intended to convey was my disappointment in the level of discourse in THIS particular thread compared to the painful sister thread over at FARK. I had come here looking for something... more.
I suppose I should have added something useful. Perhaps that Lagos may have been acting out of political self interest in cancelling the official dinner. A show of solidarity with the Chilean security/military after the scrummage. The Chilean military has been eating some crow under his leadership, even if he is something of a moderate.
Thank you, justgary, for reminding me again of what my grandfather taught me many years ago, but which I seem to need regular reminders of: sarcasm is the voice of the cornered. A vexing problem with sarcasm is that when you use it, you feel powerful; yet you almost always appear to others, even your comrades-in-cause, as weak and threatened. Your post above is a powerful example of that principle, and I sincerely thank you for reminding me to resist the infantile impulse toward using it. posted by squirrel at 8:43 PM on November 22, 2004
How eerie. How... "Dear Leader"esque.
It's almost surreal. One expects to see billboards like that in North Korea. One doesn't expect that in North America. posted by five fresh fish at 8:50 PM on November 22, 2004
Thank you, justgary
You are more than welcome squirrel! I do what I can.
(I love any cliched stories that starts out with 'my grandfather' or 'when I was young'....)
But doesn't it suck that we're talking about your opinions on sarcasm and not 50,000 people in Chile protesting Bush's visit?
It's almost surreal. One expects to see billboards like that in North Korea.
What I find most disturbing about this billboard is the in-your-face-suckas gloating quality it conveys. The subtext is "Our leader: deal with it." Which is the most divisive and aggressive way of moving away from the election I can think of. It's like an opponent who has beaten you offering you his hand and then jerking it up to smooth down his hair at the last minute. Sore winner. And, finally, what's the point?
One doesn't expect that in North America.
Looks like one ought to start expecting it. Justgary's attitude appears to be the mentality on the rise. Why he's attributing this Chilean protest thing to me is as mysterious as his sputtering bitterness in this the hour of his party's greatest political triumph. posted by squirrel at 9:50 PM on November 22, 2004
Squirrel, I have voted for both democrats and republicans, though I'm a registered democrat. I did not vote for bush, nor for kerry. Guess that screws with your whole us vs. them view.
And bitter? Are you joking? I found the fact that someone was 'troubled' we were wasting our time on this instead of a protest ridiculous. And if that poster truly believed the protest would be a better metafilter thread then they should post it, instead of derailing this one.
Justgary's attitude appears to be the mentality on the rise.
This from someone who actually used the term "jesusland" in a post. I can only aspire to one day reach that level of discussion. Pure, useless, hateful, rhetoric.
If you want to see bitter, look in the mirror. posted by justgary at 10:48 PM on November 22, 2004
justgary, I made an assumption about your political standpoint based on the postings by you that I've read. I'm sorry if I mischaracterized your views.
You're right, though, that I am bitter about the outcome of the election, and about the changes that appear to be reshaping America. As futile as bitterness is, I have right to it--my interests have taken a beating.
The point I've been trying to make about the Bush billboard is that it's unnatural and unseemly for the victors to be bitter and vindictive. If you don't count yourself among those who revel in the neoconservative rise, then we have that in common. posted by squirrel at 11:50 PM on November 22, 2004
When I first saw the news surface on news.google I was hoping Chile had attempted to arrest him for war crimes, and hoping even more that they succeeded. However unlikely. posted by loquacious at 2:26 AM on November 23, 2004
That would be so... so... so rad. posted by squirrel at 7:37 AM on November 23, 2004
Well, Canada isn't going to be of any use in dealing with Bush, now that our PM has dismissed Carolyn Parrish. Poop.
She'd have been like a rabid Corgi. posted by five fresh fish at 9:57 AM on November 23, 2004
The point I've been trying to make about the Bush billboard is that it's unnatural and unseemly for the victors to be bitter and vindictive. If you don't count yourself among those who revel in the neoconservative rise, then we have that in common.
Sorry squirrel. My extreme sarcasm probably masked my true intent. Perhaps your grandfather was right. posted by justgary at 5:41 PM on November 23, 2004
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posted by ColdChef at 8:24 PM on November 21, 2004