Comments on: Was it Lakoff, or the Trytophan ?

Was it Lakoff, or the Trytophan ?

troutfishing — Tue, 23 Nov 2004 14:53:59 -0800

Lakoff say - mellow frames sooth savage Thanksgiving : The guru of framing offers a handy free excerpt from his all-the-rage book, just in time to defuse tense Thanksgiving dinner situations ( All fall asleep - Lakoff or the turkey ? ). Says Penny Kolb, on the practical magic of Lakoff's approach : "....By last night, the chat room was civil. An amazing (to me) number of posters turned off their capitalization and we were actually having conversations."

By: mr_crash_davis

mr_crash_davis — Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:00:51 -0800

"....By last night, the chat room was civil. An amazing (to me) number of posters turned off their capitalization and we were actually having conversations." I DON'T BELIEVE YOU.

By: Krrrlson

Krrrlson — Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:11:59 -0800

How about a callout on trout's pout, you lout?

By: lirio

lirio — Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:12:48 -0800

An interesting read - especially extended beyond the framework of liberal vs. conservative dialogue. The concept of reframing is an important and valuable tool in discussion dialogue and when combined with "Be Respectful" can greatly improve the discourse in ANY community, but ESPECIALLY online. Unfortunately the first few comments on this thread lead me to conclude that such respectful dialogue may not have quite made it here yet. Of course, I'm just a newbie, what do I know - but here's hoping!

By: homunculus

homunculus — Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:15:41 -0800

Our Moral Values Lakoff's, anyway.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:21:54 -0800

Wow trout. You sure pout a lot. Maybe his amygdala is hyperactive.

By: frecklefaerie

frecklefaerie — Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:26:28 -0800

Great link, troutfishing! Then again, I'm a total slut for Lakoff. I read More Than Cool Reason for a class, and I still apply his theories all the time. I hadn't heard of this book. I was stunned to discover room in some of his classes at Berkley this semester. How dumb are those kids?

By: idontlikewords

idontlikewords — Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:31:43 -0800

At first glance I thought this was going to be about HTML frames, which are truly maddening! I was happily surprised to see that this was not the case. Cool link!

By: troutfishing

troutfishing — Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:38:29 -0800

homunculus - It just might be. ;/ Except - I've dispensed with a number of fears lately, my mind is still geared towards long range threat assessment. Probably hardwired by now, for decades. Anyway - re the trout pout : don't feed the bears. They'll just be emboldened. mr_crash_davis - I'm not sure if I do or not either : I wish she gave the URL of the chat room. Still, it sounds good. Give it a whirl whydontcha ? Krrrlson - tsk tsk. the new word on the block, down from the boss himself, is : constructive ( with a heavy dash of upbeat and a twist of novelty ).

By: homunculus

homunculus — Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:40:50 -0800

don't feed the bears. They'll just be emboldened. Indeed.

By: davy

davy — Tue, 23 Nov 2004 16:30:53 -0800

# Avoid a shouting match. Remember that the radical right requires a culture war, and shouting is the discourse form of that culture war. So outshout them. Quit smoking, it helps. Civil discourse is the discourse form of nurturant morality. Since when has "nurturant morality" had a damn thing to do with politics? That's for kindergarten. (I know, America *is* kindergarten, but still.) You win a victory when the discourse turns civil. Speaking of things "civil", the Civil War was too soft on the South and Reconstruction ended too soon. They win when they get you to shout. They lose when you line them up and shoot them. (Okay, I'm exaggerating for effect in places. So shoot me.)

By: donovan

donovan — Tue, 23 Nov 2004 17:07:35 -0800

FYI, danha boyd (and others) have been blogging Lakoff's "Lanuage of Politics" class at Cal.

By: matteo

matteo — Tue, 23 Nov 2004 17:09:07 -0800

good stuff, trout. as always. thanks

By: Ethereal Bligh

Ethereal Bligh — Tue, 23 Nov 2004 17:11:24 -0800

Let's distinguish between reframing the discussion for productive discourse and reframing the discussion to give yourself an inherent advantage. The latter is just more of the same crap, and a portion of Lakoff's advice seems of this character.

By: bashos_frog

bashos_frog — Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:14:13 -0800

eb: I think if the playing field has been tilted in one direction for 30 years, there's nothing wrong with trying to tilt it the other way for a bit. In fact, only by making the effort to turn it to your advantage will you ever get to the point that it is level. Continuation beyond that point is optional, but strongly recommended as long as the other side is exerting force in the opposite direction.

By: euphorb

euphorb — Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:50:16 -0800

Good stuff. I like this Rockridge Institute.

By: Krrrlson

Krrrlson — Tue, 23 Nov 2004 21:49:34 -0800

Krrrlson - tsk tsk. the new word on the block, down from the boss himself, is : constructive ( with a heavy dash of upbeat and a twist of novelty ). Rhyming is constructive... I was bestowing the gift of poetry on the world.

By: troutfishing

troutfishing — Tue, 23 Nov 2004 21:56:19 -0800

Krrrlson - why do you hate poetry ? ;/ donovan - nice. Thanks. Now, I'm afraid some sort of personal dirt will out to destroy the lakoff-worship.... Nah - his ideas are sufficient. No cult of personality required.

By: Pseudoephedrine

Pseudoephedrine — Wed, 24 Nov 2004 15:38:53 -0800

Eh, Lakoff's got his own reductionist frame going on of "conservative vs. liberal" that I find kind of annoying. Though, his methodology is very good.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Mon, 29 Nov 2004 17:25:05 -0800

George Lakoff says environmentalists need to watch their language.