Bhopal
December 1, 2004 5:42 PM Subscribe
Twenty Years Without Justice (34.6 MB Quicktime). The Bhopal chemical disaster 20 years on. (Via MoFi)
Thanks so much, homunculus. I've read a decent amount about Bhopal and given it a little bit of thought. To me, the solutions to the general problem this disaster illustrates aren't entirely obvious. What is obvious though, is that a great injustice has been perpetrated on the people of Bhopal. It's good to be reminded that, in the twenty years since this happened, not only has very little been done to remedy the wrongs done to the people of Bhopal, but very little has been done to figure out what will happen to the vicitms of the next Bhopal.
On preview: delmoi, as I understand it, the amount spent by UCC on the hospital and remediation efforts was minimal compared to what the payout in a civil suit would have been. Further, the kind of gross negligence they displayed would likely warrant about 20,000 counts of manslaughter in the US.
posted by leecifer at 6:39 PM on December 1, 2004
On preview: delmoi, as I understand it, the amount spent by UCC on the hospital and remediation efforts was minimal compared to what the payout in a civil suit would have been. Further, the kind of gross negligence they displayed would likely warrant about 20,000 counts of manslaughter in the US.
posted by leecifer at 6:39 PM on December 1, 2004
WaPo: 9/6/02:
The Indian government served four summonses on Anderson, the last one through Interpol, the international police commission. But after Union Carbide paid $470 million as part of an out-of-court settlement in 1989, the government dropped the charges against the company and Anderson.
Gas victims' groups demanded a review of the settlement, and India's Supreme Court reinstated the charges in 1991. In the years that followed, the government never explained why it was not seeking Anderson's extradition. Many victims say they believe India did not pursue extradition vigorously because it did not want to offend the U.S. government or discourage multinational corporations from investing in India.
WaPo 11/29/04
Two-thirds of the $470 million in compensation paid by Union Carbide, the majority owner of the plant, has yet to be disbursed by the Indian government, and no action has been taken against the company or its current owner, Dow Chemical Co., Amnesty said.
Sorry delmoi. I was quick on the trigger. $470million is rather a lot of money and there are obvioulsy additional culpable parties here.
posted by leecifer at 6:50 PM on December 1, 2004
The Indian government served four summonses on Anderson, the last one through Interpol, the international police commission. But after Union Carbide paid $470 million as part of an out-of-court settlement in 1989, the government dropped the charges against the company and Anderson.
Gas victims' groups demanded a review of the settlement, and India's Supreme Court reinstated the charges in 1991. In the years that followed, the government never explained why it was not seeking Anderson's extradition. Many victims say they believe India did not pursue extradition vigorously because it did not want to offend the U.S. government or discourage multinational corporations from investing in India.
WaPo 11/29/04
Two-thirds of the $470 million in compensation paid by Union Carbide, the majority owner of the plant, has yet to be disbursed by the Indian government, and no action has been taken against the company or its current owner, Dow Chemical Co., Amnesty said.
Sorry delmoi. I was quick on the trigger. $470million is rather a lot of money and there are obvioulsy additional culpable parties here.
posted by leecifer at 6:50 PM on December 1, 2004
Interesting stats:
9-11
Expected payout: $4 - $5 billion
number of victims: 2,752
price per victim at $4.5 billion payout: $16,351,744
Bhopal:
Expected payout: $470 mliion
number of Bhopal victims: 20,000
price per victim: $23,500
value of 9-11 victim to Bhopal victim:
695.82
In the future, if you want to kill off people, realize that Indian people are worth a lot less than Americans. It takes about 696 Indian lives to equal one American, so you can get a lot more bang for your psychopathic buck in India!
Outsource slaughter!!!
posted by rks404 at 10:36 PM on December 1, 2004
9-11
Expected payout: $4 - $5 billion
number of victims: 2,752
price per victim at $4.5 billion payout: $16,351,744
Bhopal:
Expected payout: $470 mliion
number of Bhopal victims: 20,000
price per victim: $23,500
value of 9-11 victim to Bhopal victim:
695.82
In the future, if you want to kill off people, realize that Indian people are worth a lot less than Americans. It takes about 696 Indian lives to equal one American, so you can get a lot more bang for your psychopathic buck in India!
Outsource slaughter!!!
posted by rks404 at 10:36 PM on December 1, 2004
That would be because of exchange rates, rks404. If financial compensation is to be given to the heirs of a victim, then that puts a court in the position of having to put a value on life. That value varies from place to place and from person to person, much like the income and circumstances of people vary while they are alive.
Death compensation is not really the price that person was worth, it's to repay the financial loss to the people they supported. The consequences of murder, though, vary little: in most places you'll be killed for it, or jailed for a very long time. Murder penalties are assessed for the moral worth of a life.
For what it's worth, your calculation is ignoring people who survived but were injured: 150,000 in Bhopal, and my guess is 100,000 of those were injured seriously and permanently. In the 9-11 event, as I recall, there were much less injuries as a proportion. People generally either died in the WTC collapse or escaped physically more-or-less unscathed, unless the toxic air fallout turns out to be worse than we think.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 12:13 AM on December 2, 2004
Death compensation is not really the price that person was worth, it's to repay the financial loss to the people they supported. The consequences of murder, though, vary little: in most places you'll be killed for it, or jailed for a very long time. Murder penalties are assessed for the moral worth of a life.
For what it's worth, your calculation is ignoring people who survived but were injured: 150,000 in Bhopal, and my guess is 100,000 of those were injured seriously and permanently. In the 9-11 event, as I recall, there were much less injuries as a proportion. People generally either died in the WTC collapse or escaped physically more-or-less unscathed, unless the toxic air fallout turns out to be worse than we think.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 12:13 AM on December 2, 2004
> value of 9-11 victim to Bhopal victim:
695.82
Yeah, if you want to be obtuse, be my guest. It isn't even exchange rates, as aeschenkarnos says. First of all is that the Bhopal payout was 15 years prior; not only has there been inflation, but overall expectations of compensation have increased in the US, not just in terms of how much but in what for. (Not necessarily a bad thing.) A decent comparison would have to start at a US chemical disaster around the same time. You'd also have to calculate that there is a difference in a government authorizing public compensation for victims of first degree murder, and a corporate offender payout for victims of negligence.
Death and personal injury compensation is, by its very nature, a callous activity. The 9/11 special master based payouts on a number of calculations, but a strong one was expected lifetime earnings that would be denied the family by the victim's death. India's 1984 GDP per capita is a poor analogue but the best I can find, and it's just $250 in current US dollars. Lifetime earnings over an average of 40 years (which may be generous; poor people in India probably don't have great life expectancy) is therefore around $10,000. By that metric, and include inflation, the payout may well have been as fair as possible.
Note that most of the individual persons responsible for the accident died themselves. Additionally, the government of India was hungry for investment and failed to provide oversight (or even, it seems, applicable law). The corporation certainly has some responsibility, of course, but I've never quite been clear on why the activists in India (and the US) have wanted the UC stateside officials brought up on homicide charges. I suspect that if the charges were dropped, Dow would be considerably more open to replenishing a revolving compensation fund and site clean-up.
posted by dhartung at 1:14 AM on December 2, 2004
695.82
Yeah, if you want to be obtuse, be my guest. It isn't even exchange rates, as aeschenkarnos says. First of all is that the Bhopal payout was 15 years prior; not only has there been inflation, but overall expectations of compensation have increased in the US, not just in terms of how much but in what for. (Not necessarily a bad thing.) A decent comparison would have to start at a US chemical disaster around the same time. You'd also have to calculate that there is a difference in a government authorizing public compensation for victims of first degree murder, and a corporate offender payout for victims of negligence.
Death and personal injury compensation is, by its very nature, a callous activity. The 9/11 special master based payouts on a number of calculations, but a strong one was expected lifetime earnings that would be denied the family by the victim's death. India's 1984 GDP per capita is a poor analogue but the best I can find, and it's just $250 in current US dollars. Lifetime earnings over an average of 40 years (which may be generous; poor people in India probably don't have great life expectancy) is therefore around $10,000. By that metric, and include inflation, the payout may well have been as fair as possible.
Note that most of the individual persons responsible for the accident died themselves. Additionally, the government of India was hungry for investment and failed to provide oversight (or even, it seems, applicable law). The corporation certainly has some responsibility, of course, but I've never quite been clear on why the activists in India (and the US) have wanted the UC stateside officials brought up on homicide charges. I suspect that if the charges were dropped, Dow would be considerably more open to replenishing a revolving compensation fund and site clean-up.
posted by dhartung at 1:14 AM on December 2, 2004
trharlan
> The settlement award was much larger than any previous damage award in India, and was $120 million more than plaintiff’s lawyers had told U.S. Courts was fair.
This article states:
"Amnesty International has claimed that neither the Indian government nor Union Carbide have done enough to provide proper redress for the victims or to clean up the site.
The report is severely critical of the Indian government for "its failure to assess adequately the risk from the Bhopal plant", and for agreeing to a "derisory" settlement with Union Carbide in 1989 without consulting survivors, and for agreeing that this settlement ended Union Carbide's liability."
posted by fadeout at 2:09 AM on December 2, 2004
> The settlement award was much larger than any previous damage award in India, and was $120 million more than plaintiff’s lawyers had told U.S. Courts was fair.
This article states:
"Amnesty International has claimed that neither the Indian government nor Union Carbide have done enough to provide proper redress for the victims or to clean up the site.
The report is severely critical of the Indian government for "its failure to assess adequately the risk from the Bhopal plant", and for agreeing to a "derisory" settlement with Union Carbide in 1989 without consulting survivors, and for agreeing that this settlement ended Union Carbide's liability."
posted by fadeout at 2:09 AM on December 2, 2004
"Amnesty found that: "Even this inadequate sum has not been distributed in full to the victims ... about 16,000 claims are outstanding, and most of the successful applicants have received minimal amounts of compensation. At the time of writing in September 2004, around $330m of the $470m remained held by the Reserve Bank of India."
posted by fadeout at 2:15 AM on December 2, 2004
posted by fadeout at 2:15 AM on December 2, 2004
This is why corporate officers should be responsible for the actions of the corporation. Someone has to have final responsibility.
posted by bshort at 7:30 AM on December 2, 2004
posted by bshort at 7:30 AM on December 2, 2004
I agree that the comparison between 9-11 and Bhopal is apples and oranges for many of the reasons stated above. However, both events are unique so it's interesting to look at them together.
I simply find the numbers to be very interesting.
It's very simplistic but it's also true. Indian lives are worth a lot less than American lives. Take from that what you will.
I suspect that if the charges were dropped, Dow would be considerably more open to replenishing a revolving compensation fund and site clean-up.
that's a good one!
posted by rks404 at 8:33 AM on December 2, 2004
I simply find the numbers to be very interesting.
It's very simplistic but it's also true. Indian lives are worth a lot less than American lives. Take from that what you will.
I suspect that if the charges were dropped, Dow would be considerably more open to replenishing a revolving compensation fund and site clean-up.
that's a good one!
posted by rks404 at 8:33 AM on December 2, 2004
I think the interesting questions here aren't so much about what's to be done for the victims of the disaster or even what's to be done to the UCC officials. The tougher question is: what are we to do to ensure that future Bhopals don't happen? Should India have tougher workplace safety laws? Or better enforcement of the existing ones? If they did, then the UCC plant might have been safer. On the other hand, it might not have been there at all. Countries like India face a difficult choice between, on the one hand, stricter environmental, health, and safety regulation and, on the other hand, attracting much needed foreign investment. Consumers in the US are also in a difficult spot insofar as they assumedly don't want to be complicit in abuse of workers and spoiling of the environment in the developing world but are also hesitant to impose their own notion of an appropriate level of risk and regulation on other countries.
posted by leecifer at 9:07 AM on December 2, 2004
posted by leecifer at 9:07 AM on December 2, 2004
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posted by delmoi at 6:32 PM on December 1, 2004