pre-emptive big feet big xxxx joke

December 2, 2004 2:26 PM

Diagnosis via press release.Josh Marshall speculates on Dick Cheney's health based on a press release put out by a shoe store. The store says Cheney's feet have "changed to a size 10EEE". Swelling of the feet is a primary symptom of congestive heart failure.
posted by jpoulos (33 comments total)

Discuss as you will, of course, but I'm more interested in the idea of diagnosis via press release than in the story itself. You know me. I have no opinion whatsoever about Dick Cheney. :-) Is it irresponsible to speculate like this? (I'm not sure it is. But I'm sure plenty of people do.)
posted by jpoulos at 2:28 PM on December 2, 2004

<tangent>Why do we have to click "Print" to get to TPM's single entry pages?</tangent>
posted by brownpau at 2:43 PM on December 2, 2004

maybe it's gout. drinking gallons of human blood can do that, sometimes
posted by matteo at 2:45 PM on December 2, 2004

Yes, irresponsible to speculate.

Now, if I could just figure out where I put that menu and guest list for the celebratory party...
posted by contessa at 2:56 PM on December 2, 2004

it could be flat feet. playing world policeman can do that, sometimes.

dr. matteo's diagnosis is, however, probably right. dick's only been walking one beat.
posted by three blind mice at 2:56 PM on December 2, 2004

Now, if I could just figure out where I put that menu and guest list for the celebratory party...

might want to hold off on that contessa.

vice president hastert ain't no reason to celebrate.
posted by three blind mice at 2:59 PM on December 2, 2004

Diagnosis is an irresistible pastime for medical professionals. The genetics meetings are always abuzz with what people saw on the street recently, or most memorably. I think all people do this in various ways - we are a curious species, and we like to be In The Know - but we might have the sense that when docs do it, it's more noteworthy, because they are more likely to be right.

As for speculating like this, I think it's not only perfectly fine but probably important to the extent that newsgathering is important. The business world in particular is obsessed with investigating signs and portents of this kind, because it's little bits of data and the context to assemble them into Information that create competitive advantage. (And what's good for Halliburton is good for our Vice President, as we all know.)

As for the responsibility angle, I think that rests mostly on the discipline to ensure the interpretation fits the text. For example, it makes sense to say that lower-extremity swelling is a sign of CHF, and the VP is known to have heart problems, so perhaps they are escalating. It doesn't make as much sense to say, "OMG did you see the picture of the VP eating ice cream? His feet must have grown to match!"
posted by caitlinb at 3:05 PM on December 2, 2004

jpoulos pre-empted me in his title to the post. Aaaarrrrgh.

I was so tempted.
posted by NewBornHippy at 3:09 PM on December 2, 2004

vice president hastert ain't no reason to celebrate.

But Hastert won't automatically become Vice President if something happens to Cheney. He's third in line, yes, but he doesn't automatically move up. W. would get to appoint a new Vice President, which raises a whole new can of potential nightmare scenarios.
posted by ambrosia at 3:23 PM on December 2, 2004

Yah, but I still sorta think that Bush is relatively clueless about policy and relies on his personal feelings about people. So there's always the possibility that without Cheney pulling his strings, he'd not be such a dangerous lunatic.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:35 PM on December 2, 2004

which raises a whole new can of potential nightmare scenarios.

Falwell for VP!
posted by NewBornHippy at 3:59 PM on December 2, 2004

which raises a whole new can of potential nightmare scenarios.

Ashcroft for VP!
posted by AlexReynolds at 4:03 PM on December 2, 2004

But, but, this would indicate that Dick has a heart!

Rove for VP!
posted by nofundy at 4:06 PM on December 2, 2004

Vice


President







Rumsfeld.
posted by jpoulos at 4:08 PM on December 2, 2004

Maybe he's pregnant? It could happen!
posted by buriednexttoyou at 4:26 PM on December 2, 2004

Don't you have to have a heart for it to fail?

Damn you, nofundy!

Oh well, at least I can continue hoping that the smarmy asshole will drop dead by the time I post this. Preferably in flagrante with a transexual videographer.
posted by fenriq at 4:47 PM on December 2, 2004

Congestive heart failure is a pretty slow torturous way to go. I wouldn't wish it on anybody.


Even if I did, it wouldn't do anybody any good. He could easily be around for another 4 years...
posted by Chuckles at 5:03 PM on December 2, 2004

Ooooo Vice President Rice not the first woman VP I envisioned, but what the hay.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:07 PM on December 2, 2004

I don't think much of Rice (I think she's smart, and I think she's a legitimate USSR scholar, but I do think that otherwise she's over her head), but it'd make me very happy to see black woman as VP. It's a great step to have a black woman as Sec. of State. I'm of the opinion that Americans are a lot closer than most think to being ready for either (but probably not both) a woman or a black person as President. People will disagree, and I respect that, but on balance I'd approve of a conservative Republican in that role because, in the long run, the symbolism would likely be of greater benefit to the US than any damage they'd likely cause. But that's just me. I'd have voted for Elizabeth Dole for that reason. I'd probaby vote for Hillary for that reason, 'cept I think she has zero chance of winning, so maybe not.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 5:26 PM on December 2, 2004

Vice President Bush. Jeb, that is.
posted by stevis at 5:27 PM on December 2, 2004

EB: So you don't think much of rice, but because she's black and a woman, you want her to be VP?
posted by cameldrv at 6:23 PM on December 2, 2004

Yep, that's what I said.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 6:26 PM on December 2, 2004

Dick Cheney buys shoes... MeFi and webloggers investigate.

Maybe he just changed styles. It's entirely possible that the 'Lasalle wingtip loafer in brushed mahogany' is somwhat different than the 'Classic wingtip in burgundy'. I've yet to find two shoes, even from the same company that fit the same.

One can always hope, though.
posted by cedar at 6:58 PM on December 2, 2004

EB: You would choose an incompetent liar as the VP because she is black and a woman?

There's a case for affirmative action if I ever heard one... your really doing wonders for the cause with this attitude. Forget merit. Forget past history. Forget policy. She's has dark skin and breasts. Good enough for me.

Basing a vote on skin color and gender... yeah, that's a change from the way things are now. Keyes in 2008, baby. Yeah, he's a nutcase, but he's an African-American nutcase.
posted by cedar at 7:11 PM on December 2, 2004

You'd vote for Liddy Dole and you'd vote for Hillary Clinton. That makes zero sense.
posted by jpoulos at 7:49 PM on December 2, 2004

y'know, if he does kick it, we don't have a choice, just like with the prez, we have to take the next in line.

too bad Washington didn't take the title of King, think how different this country might be...
posted by kamylyon at 8:29 PM on December 2, 2004

I'm with Ethereal Bligh. Cedar, you're doing the straw man thing -- EB said he thought she was smart, you reacted by elevating the label to "incompetent liar" -- and jpoulos, I think "That makes zero sense" from you actually equals "I disagree": EB thinks it's important to see more women in office, and I couldn't agree more, but clearly YMMV. How would folks respond to one of MeFi's favorite right-wing whipping boys saying about Geraldine Ferraro, "But how could you possibly vote for her just because she's a woman?" I strongly dislike the policies of the current administration, but who else among Bush's short list of candidates would folks prefer? (I'm fairly sure I'm not hearing, "Anybody but a black woman like Condi," but can someone propose a better candidate that Bush realistically might field, given the political calculus?)

And, hey, Colin Powell called attention to the GOP's problematic relation to race issues, and good on him for doing so.
posted by vitia at 9:11 PM on December 2, 2004

And, hey, Colin Powell called attention to the GOP's problematic relation to race issues, and good on him for doing so.

I was just about to say that the only member of Bush's (current or former) circle whom I could stomach as VP without vomiting would be Powell. Rice, as far as I can see, is a liar and a crook, while Powell has at least shown some integrity in the past. I'd love to see a woman or non-white person hold highest office, but not at the expense of my political convictions. Notice my complete and total lack of jumping for joy at the appointment of the first Hispanic Attorney General.

That said, Obama in '08!
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:08 PM on December 2, 2004

Vitia, being smart isn't good enough. There are lots of smart folks running around who shouldn't be elected dogcatcher. Being a woman isn't enough either. Sure, it would be great to see more women elected to high office -- but may I suggest starting with one who posesses some shred of integrity.

In this case, I sincerely hope the shattering glass ceiling decapitates her.

Faint of Butt: I used to feel that way about Powell. I've spent the better part of the last four years waiting for him to give some sort of indication that he was the man of honor that so many believed him to be. I haven't seen that and am left with the conclusion that I was wrong -- he actually believes the Bush line and is as bad as the rest of them. This is a man who once could have been President but choose to be a syncophantic follower.
posted by cedar at 4:17 AM on December 3, 2004

A VP, with the exception of Cheney, can't do a lot of harm, really. So the symbolic value of who's occupying the post weighs very heavily relative to, say, their qualifications.

But even with regard to a Presidential candidate, a woman or minority has an inherent virtue regardless of their politics or competency. Keyes is really a nut, I wouldn't vote for him. This isn't ideological for me, I'm deeply a pragmatist. I'm not thrilled with affirmative action, although I still support it. But not in all cases because what matters to me is the utilitarian argument for it. I'm not convinced that in many cases it's not doing more harm than good.

But in this context, I think that a woman or black person VP or President of the US is a very, very powerful statement that would do women and black people (and other disadvantaged groups) a huge amount of good; and for that reason that is a substantial virtue for one of those candidates in my view.

Also, Dole is a moderate Republican and Clinton is more moderate than most people think. There's not that much seperating them. (When Liz Dole was chair of the GOP, I think that was 86?, she kept pro-life language out of the platform.)
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 5:27 AM on December 3, 2004

No, Powell doesn't believe the neocon line. It's well known that he's fought against them every step of the way. But above and beyond his personal beliefs, he's a soldier. Bush is his commander. In the end, that's the deciding factor.

Personally, I think it's a little simpleminded of him, but he is a career military officer, after all.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 5:29 AM on December 3, 2004

cedar -

I've got a buddy in one of the military's post-grad military education programs. He (and his class) got to talk to Powell a while back, unscripted and with no cameras around. Somebody said something similar to the thought you expressed. According to my buddy, his response was "I'm doing the best I can from inside. Can you imagine how bad it would be if they had picked somebody else for this job?"

Doesn't mean I think he's been the best SecState ever, but it does provide an interesting angle on the question.
posted by Irontom at 5:53 AM on December 3, 2004

I like Josh Marshall, but I thought this was kind of pathetic, and just reflected the wish fantasies that we in the left like to indulge in. Remember all those rumors about Bush's health problems? his wistfulness as election eve came along?

I hope that Marshall will stop dealing in these kind of fantasies/wishes.
posted by jasper411 at 10:03 AM on December 3, 2004