Comments on: Amazing little magazine

Amazing little magazine

escorter — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:12:15 -0800

is the best graphic design pub around, even at six bucks a pop. I’m not a designer, but I’ve picked up enough from this that people think I am. And for you cheapskates, they’ve just done a $16 book with the best stuff from all the issues. Their site also has an interesting analysis of the Bush and Kerry logos, showing why one (guess which?) had serious flaws.

By: veedubya

veedubya — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:21:59 -0800

My advice to you, escorter, for what it's worth, is to turn off your computer right now. Whatever's about to happen here, it's almost certainly not going to be pleasant.

By: glenwood

glenwood — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:22:55 -0800

*hugging knees, rocking in corner with hands over ears*

By: escorter

escorter — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:29:52 -0800

...uh, why? This isn't a self promo. I'm not a Bush guy. It's a little-known pub that I have subscribed to for years, and it is genuinely interesting and useful. Ands I don't have an Amazon account where I get a kick-back, I just listed them becuase they're cheaper than buying from the publisher.....

By: veedubya

veedubya — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:33:23 -0800

This tube of toothpaste is the best toothpaste around, even at a buck a pop. I'm not a dentist, but with my whiter than white teeth, people think I am.

By: driveler

driveler — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:34:48 -0800

I suppose it's not a great post, but the logo analysis was an interesting read. I thought it was on-point.

By: Dr. Wu

Dr. Wu — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:36:32 -0800

veedubya, unless I'm unaware of a right-wing design mafia that patrols Metafilter, I don't see what the problem is here. escorter, thanks for the link - it's interesting stuff, especially the Bush vs. Kerry logo analysis.

By: veedubya

veedubya — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:41:53 -0800

Dr. Wu, it's an advertisement. You don't even have to click the link to know the price. The problem, as I see it, is that this sort of thing is frowned upon by those that were here before us. Let's not give the big kids an excuse to throw rocks us. Personally, I can avert my eyes and move on, but there are folks around here that are just looking to blame us 'n00bs' for the demise of all things good about MeFi. That's my take, anyway. If I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.

By: escorter

escorter — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:44:54 -0800

It is not an advertisement, it is a personal recommendation from this Ohioan who has not the slightest connection to this magazine other than being a subscriber. And well, veedubya, in fact you do sound like a dentist, and so you probably aren't interested in design. But lots of people, including me (an engineer) are. And if you haven't noticed, a magazine that's 16 or 24 pages is quite unusual--one might even say newsworthy--and for it to exist at all (the issues have no advertising ) must mean the content is unusually good. I thought the Bush/Kerry logo thing was interesting enough, but thought I'd also post the details on the mag, since I am a fan. No apologies here, sorry, try again next time.

By: linux

linux — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:49:11 -0800

Yeah, the magazine might be nice. But their website sucks. Heck, this page doesn't even render correctly.

By: veedubya

veedubya — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:50:42 -0800

Well, apologies if I caused offence, escorter. I don't have an axe to grind (at least not about this), so I'll bow out now, having said my piece.

By: DrJohnEvans

DrJohnEvans — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:52:24 -0800

I thought it was a neat read.

By: coelecanth

coelecanth — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:56:56 -0800

For future reference, a post about design merits of presidential logos is interesting. A post about an irresistable deal on a magazine subscription isn't.

By: evoo

evoo — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:57:12 -0800

escorter: Thank you for sharing. I had not heard of this magazine before and I found it interesting. I come to Metafilter to be exposed to new and interesting things. This is one of them. veedubya, glenwood: Yikes. Do you see any "big kids throwing rocks" here? Relax.

By: th3ph17

th3ph17 — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:06:06 -0800

its a friday morning. the big kids are all drunk. I do think that the logo for bush was much stronger, and i agree with the explanation listed in that post. The book looks like a much better value than a small, expensive magazine....and it will go on my wishlist. coelecanth, exactly.

By: naxosaxur

naxosaxur — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:07:22 -0800

escorter, i haven't clicked on the link yet, but veedubya is aligned with my initial sentiments after reading your fpp. This wording "This tiny (24 pages or less!) magazine is the best graphic design pub around, even at six bucks a pop", and even your title "Amazing little magazine" is very Ron Popeil-esque. It feels like you're overtly pandering solicitation. Your fpp is tenuous because your description sounds like a telemarketer is trying to foist an unsung product. Try to be more subtle next time. No one on mefi enjoys feeling like a guinea-pig consort of viable, potential customers, which is what you have accomplished in your wording.

By: birdherder

birdherder — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:13:21 -0800

I love the analysis of the bumperstickers but it would have been better to compare it with the other Kerry/Edwards sticker that didn't suck as much. Team Bush did a decent job of keeping its bumperstickers consistent throughout the campaign, where Kerry has about 1,000 different designs. [aside: Do you people see cars that have a black square decal with a W and in smaller letters THE PRESIDENT, or is that just a Texas thing?] [and thanks for the link to the magazine, the wording may have been a little too Pepsi Blue, but I hadn't heard of it before.]

By: me3dia

me3dia — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:13:36 -0800

The Bush/Kerry logo analysis is pretty cool. Thanks for linking to it! Am I a big kid? Here's how I would have done it: Bush won the logo contest over a weaker Kerry, according to the excellent Before&After (who just put out a best-of book).

By: DevilsAdvocate

DevilsAdvocate — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:27:20 -0800

They may be good at graphic design, but it seems they could really use a good editor here. Reading this article about designing logos with connected letters, I found that by the third page or so, I couldn't help but hear the words in the voice of Beverly Gelfand, between the overuse of exclamation points and the super-short paragraphs.

By: MegoSteve

MegoSteve — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:29:47 -0800

Thanks for the link. I did enjoy reading the Bush vs. Kerry logo analysis, because I was thinking the same things they did when I first saw their logo.

By: kindall

kindall — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:29:56 -0800

It's cool that B&A is still around. I remember reading them 10 years ago. The only problem with the magazine was that after every issue, our art director would go hog wild with one of the techniques in it. I remember after the B&A that showed how to make convincing water drops in Illustrator, the next issue of our newsletter had a school crossing sign on the cover that had so many water drops on it, it looked like it had the chicken pox, or was bubbling up from a nearby nuclear strike, or something. I did learn a lot about design from their newsletter makeovers, though.

By: mathis23

mathis23 — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:33:32 -0800

[birdherder: I haven't noticed any of the black, square 'W' stickers up here in Chicago, but there are a number of white, oval 'W' stickers in the style of the European country code decals for cars.]

By: St.Pudalia

St.Pudalia — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:34:12 -0800

Naxosaxur: please do not presume to speak on behalf of the rest of us.

By: Dean King

Dean King — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:53:22 -0800

I don't care if people buy the thing or not, but I do agree that this is one of the better "how-to" design pubs around. This post reminded me to renew my subscription, and alerted me to the best-of collection. So thanks, escorter.

By: xammerboy

xammerboy — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 10:07:16 -0800

I think it's cool. Thanks.

By: naxosaxur

naxosaxur — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 10:32:39 -0800

St.Pudalia: I'm incredulous that you choose to lambaste me with your inane criticism, when within this very thread, veedubya, glenwood, coelecasnth, and th3ph17 all share my same opinion - just not as verbose. Your selective sassiness is transparent, just like your comment.

By: Stunt

Stunt — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 10:41:19 -0800

Some people seem to have an issue with this post, but I'm not among them. Like others have stated, I found the logo comparison very interesting, and wouldn't have known about this magazine if you hadn't posted. Thanks. Don't let all the nit-picking get to you; Just use it to get a feel for how to do things in the future. Don't let that stop you from posting links to things like this either. Some of us find them useful. Well, I do at least *grins*

By: milkrate

milkrate — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 10:45:31 -0800

birdherder: I've seen some of the black/white "W: The President" swag, mostly when I was in the south, though. When I first saw the hat, I thought it was a W Hotel employee. What Do I Know had a post about the design and campaign branding of this specific "collection" (the link to the Bush store is dead now - this page works, though). At the top of the Bush store page, they have the different product lines - like "The W Collection" and "Farm Ranch". The "Kid Gear" section is kind of creepy. Kerry's stuff didn't have these different collections like Bush did.

By: petebest

petebest — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 11:14:29 -0800

*praise for the logo link* *agreement on FPP wording critique* *self-effacing comic outro*

By: zeoslap

zeoslap — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 11:24:59 -0800

veedubya and glenwood as always if you don't like the post move along. Also a little hyprocritical coming from the poster of the Keyhole 7 day free trial post me thinks. This was a decent post, and the logo thing was cool, enough with the high and mighty act. good night

By: SpaceCadet

SpaceCadet — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 11:40:39 -0800

Excellent link escorter - the Bush/Kerry design analysis was (as said by others) very interesting.

By: sandmonk

sandmonk — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 11:46:01 -0800

My advice to you, escorter, for what it's worth, is to turn off your computer right now. Whatever's about to happen here, it's almost certainly not going to be pleasant. yeah, it was unpleasant like smelling someone else's fart. The ensuing discussion, that is. Thanks for the self-fulfilling prophecy. As for the BA mag link, thanks for something interesting.

By: euphorb

euphorb — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 11:47:31 -0800

If you have a problem with the post, take it outside.

By: Captaintripps

Captaintripps — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:09:53 -0800

I like the two options on the downloads page. Kind of makes me want to see more of those. We're always trying to keep a nice clean design with our creations and it seems like Before & After come from the same ethos. I'm going to check the library today to see if they have any back issues.

By: ParisParamus

ParisParamus — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:15:43 -0800

This is a fine post. Leave him/her alone.

By: Doohickie

Doohickie — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:22:27 -0800

Try to be more subtle next time. Naxosaxur- That line is reason enough to single you out relative to others who criticized the post. On behalf of escorter, I would like to apologize that not everyone here has their prose up to your high standards. Oh, and escorter.... I found the logo article interesting and didn't bother to click the other link. Don't let the bastards get ya down.

By: j.p. Hung

j.p. Hung — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:47:53 -0800

I don't really see anything wrong with the post either, although the analysis of the Bush and Kerry logos seems to have overlooked one glaring point: The Kerry logo fails so miserably because it has the letters K•E•R•R•Y on it (and yes, I did vote for the guy). Fortunately, they won't have to change the Bush logo too much when his brother runs in 08'. Weeeeeee!!

By: dougunderscorenelso

dougunderscorenelso — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:51:44 -0800

1) The brilliant Paula Scher already did that for the New York Times. 2) This article totally discredits the magazine, in my opinion. All pretentious logo-building theories aside, I'm going to safely say that clever ligature in the place of actual communication is a weak approach to the problem. 3) In reference to said article: If you need a guide explaining how to connect letters in clever little manners, you need serious help. 4) "Name the font!" and "Making superhero type!" remind me of games played by my worst, least successful professors. If you want a good graphic design publication, go for How, a business-oriented process mag, or Communication Arts, a Best-Of-The-Best design showcase mag. Some may tell you go look at Print, but some of their stuff seems nostalgic for the late nineties.

By: JollyWanker

JollyWanker — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:04:45 -0800

I’m not a designer, but I’ve picked up enough from this that people think I am. I feel very safe in assuming you don't know any designers because no professional is going to believe it, unless they're just trying to keep from hurting your feelings. A quick peruse proves that Before & After is still what it has been since it started: a design cheat-sheet for non-designers. The "techniques" will start showing up on websites and in departmental publications created by non-designers right about... now. Not that there's anything wrong with that, just don't confuse it with actual periodicals that designers woudl actually read.

By: MiltonRandKalman

MiltonRandKalman — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:19:01 -0800

It's like Critique Magazine (RIP) was resurrected. It's a weakness of many design magazines to show great design and say, "LOOK! GREAT DESIGN". But what of the process, how was this piece arrived at? 80% of design is client communications, what kind of problem is being solved with the piece? Magazines like Comm Arts equate good design with '42', but if you don't know what the question was, the answer is useless. The Big Crit (Critique's design annual) would take the best 2 winners from each category and have the judges write about why the piece won. Looks like this magazine is doing the kind of case study that made Crit (and Eye too) such a great magazine. Comm Arts is just a coffee table book.

By: delfuego

delfuego — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:48:08 -0800

This very-long-time MF user enjoyed the link quite a bit, escorter; I am honestly baffled at why people are even the slightest bit annoyed. (Of course, even had I found myself annoyed, I can't imagine that said annoyance wouldn't have been overwhelmed with my annoyance at the exuberant designer ego that's quickly taken root in the comments...) Welcome to the dysfunctional little family here at MetaFilterLand.

By: centerpunch

centerpunch — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 14:20:10 -0800

A quick peruse proves that Before & After is still what it has been since it started: a design cheat-sheet for non-designers. It is nothing of the sort. It explores and explains good (and bad) design, illustrating with examples. Not many magazines are worth 25 cents a page, but this one is.

By: cali

cali — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:49:50 -0800

It looks interesting, kind of a Cook's Illustrated for design. Thanks for the link.

By: glenwood

glenwood — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 18:09:27 -0800

veedubya and glenwood as always if you don't like the post move along. i wasn't dissing. i'm just plum wore out from all the bickerin'.

By: buzzman

buzzman — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 18:29:39 -0800

I thought the analysis was cool. Appearance is a very important item, more so the subliminal stuff. Consider the campaigns... Bush was always surrounded by supporters, with full bleachers behind him to further the effect. The scene was always full of Bush people. Kerry had supporters around him, but when the cameras panned, it would reveal the thinning of the crowd and empty spaces in the distance, or show that the town hall was less than full. Another appearance item... after the Clinton : Dole race... why was Dole seen so often exiting Air Force One while Clinton was already at a podium? Or back in the distance among Clintons other staff folk? I enjoy a reference to a good mag (no ads! Woo Hoo!), and why not be enthusiastic about what one enjoys?

By: spilon

spilon — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 22:25:22 -0800

You know what -- I don't care if this was a good FPP or not.... but it did remind me that a few years ago, when I first encountered a copy of B&A magazine, I subscribed and sent them a check which they were happy to cash. In return, they sent me three old issues on the same day -- like a year old -- and then nothing again. Ever. Fuckers. Oh --- and the NYT had a much better and more in-depth analysis of the Bush/Kerry bumper sticker design back when it actually mattered. Same conclusion.

By: idontlikewords

idontlikewords — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 23:50:38 -0800

Perhaps if non-designers saw fit to inform themselves about the very basics of design theory and terminology e.g. ligatures by reading publications like this, then designers would have less (justifiable) cause to pull their hair out over idiot clients? On the other hand, I can imagine a horrible backlash where clients who were once (justifiably) intimidated by their kick-ass designers now felt confident telling them to "Ligature it up a bit."

By: centerpunch

centerpunch — Sat, 11 Dec 2004 08:02:21 -0800

...it did remind me that a few years ago, when I first encountered a copy of B&A magazine, I subscribed and sent them a check which they were happy to cash. In return, they sent me three old issues on the same day -- like a year old -- and then nothing again. Ever. Spilon, I think several years ago they had some problems, why don't you email them and let us know what happens....

By: dougunderscorenelso

dougunderscorenelso — Sat, 11 Dec 2004 10:02:41 -0800

Buzzman, it's funny you say that because all the Bush fans I know say it was the other way around. Media pushed crowds together in Kerry shots, shot empty parking lots for Bush. /politicfilter.

By: spilon

spilon — Mon, 13 Dec 2004 20:44:29 -0800

I think several years ago they had some problems, why don't you email them and let us know what happens.... Didn't even have to -- someone from the magazine actually saw my post in this thread and contacted me about it. I thought that was a really stand-up thing for them to do. They apologized, explained what happened, and offered me my money back. I said I'd be happy just to finally get the subscription -- so that's the deal. Yay!