Comments on: more simian than human

more simian than human

kmartino — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:37:37 -0800

'Contributed To Culture Of Death' That Spawned His Killer? That's the charge that William Grim, Contributing Editor of the popular conservative web site The Iconoclast makes. There is a thread at Blabbermouth on this, but I'd like to hear what you folks think. Me? It's been a while since I've been called a barbarian.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:43:45 -0800

It was an assemblage of ignorant, semi-human barbarians who were filthy in attire and manner, intellectually incoherent and above all else, hideously ugly to the point of physical deformity. [nation-defending gratuitous rant] I bet Mr. Grin had his ass kicked and his girlfreind stolen by headbanger back in high school. Here's a message for ya, Wee Willie, we could kick your ass then and we still can now. [/n-d.g.r.] As for the "culture of death" BS, the canon of classical music, opera, and 'classic' literature contains enough gore, rage and gruesomeness to make both Tom Araya and Tom Savini vomit. So put that in your hat and smoke it, Grin.

By: ericb

ericb — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:45:20 -0800

And a "barbarian" who is, according to Grim, "part of a generation that has confused sputum with art and involuntary reflex actions with emotion." Who nominated him and his ilk to be arbiters of taste?

By: Armitage Shanks

Armitage Shanks — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:47:26 -0800

What's with the wannabe Canadian wingnuts? That's just plain sad.

By: davelog

davelog — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:47:48 -0800

Wow, what an asshole. Who made him the arbiter of wit, talent, and humanity? On preview: ericb, pinch poke owe me a coke.

By: fandango_matt

fandango_matt — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:49:42 -0800

Stop hurting America.

By: TheOnlyCoolTim

TheOnlyCoolTim — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:49:45 -0800

Someone ought to tell him that some of the heavy metal (not Pantera so much) is actually informed by the classical music he loves so much.

By: kenko

kenko — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:51:19 -0800

"I do not understand exactly why I prefer Haydn to my good friend who prefers Beethoven." Jeez, get an editor.

By: RockCorpse

RockCorpse — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:53:06 -0800

Wingnuts both sides of the border, dude. Think you're wingnuts are less worthy than ours? Huh? It's like watching Ann Coulter smugly strike pornographic poses for the camera. *shudder*

By: ibmcginty

ibmcginty — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:53:33 -0800

This fellow is a stereotype. The article reveals a 7th-grade-level understanding of issues and the adept use of a thesaurus. If there were anything here, it might be worth calling this guy out, but as it is, it'd be like getting mad at a rubber ball. I had a boss who said, "never agrue with a crazy person-- he'll drag you down to his level, then he'll beat you 'cause he's on his home turf." Seems to apply here.

By: fandango_matt

fandango_matt — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:53:46 -0800

This is probably very bad news for Motley Crue.

By: driveler

driveler — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:54:18 -0800

Grim's article is a troll.

By: fenriq

fenriq — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:54:31 -0800

This reminds me of Andy Rooney's post Kurt Cobain's suicide rant about "grunge" music. Completely stupid, completely out of touch and incredibly condescending. I'm sure Mr. Grim feels incredibly superior while listening to his Vivaldi while sipping an expensive wine. But I couldn't give the first damn about his conclusions about culture since he obviously went into that rant with a foregone conclusion. He tries to SAT word people into submission (using big words to show how smaht he is) but comes off like a dumbass with a thesaurus. Lovely post though! I do enjoy reading the rants of fools from time to time, maybe that's why I love MeFi as I do? And no, I'm not calling anyone here a fool, yet. RockCorpse, you evil filthy bastard! How dare you implant Coulter porn into my mind. Ahh, now I'm gonna have to pour bleach into my eyes!

By: radiosig

radiosig — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:55:12 -0800

did anyone else recollect achewood's pat reynolds while reading through this tripe? awesome.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:55:35 -0800

Exactly, TheOnlyCoolTim. Mrs. jonmc is a classical trained musician. The first time I played her Master Of Puppets she loved it cos it "reminded her of Wagner." The Grin prick hates heavy metal (and probably all rock by extension) since it's very existence is an affront to the false standards he holds so dear (and that he uses to separate himself from us barbarians). Let's all get drunk, drive to this guys house and egg it whil playing Vulgar Display Of Power at peak volume. I had a boss who said, "never agrue with a crazy person-- he'll drag you down to his level, then he'll beat you 'cause he's on his home turf." Seems to apply here. I'm already crazy and he's on my turf.

By: davelog

davelog — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:58:02 -0800

After reading through the rest of the iconoclast site, I've come to the conclusion that we're being put on. Every piece there seems to be a caricature of rampant conservatism. Glocks down, folks.

By: Sidhedevil

Sidhedevil — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:58:22 -0800

I think that people who want to live in the glass house of cultural elitism shouldn't toss around the stone-like turds of solecism that this guy does. "Dumbass with a thesaurus" is the perfect description of this particular writing style--thanks, fenriq!

By: languagehat

languagehat — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:58:28 -0800

I cannot deny that there much in Mr. Abbott's demise of one being hoisted on one's petard... De gustibus non disputandem est. This person is accusing others of ignorance? Back to elitism school, guy.

By: Sidhedevil

Sidhedevil — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:59:40 -0800

If it's a joke, it's not a good one. If it's serious, it's stupid. I read through the rest of the site and literally couldn't decide if it was a put-on of childish conservatives trying to be funny or actual childish conservatives trying to be funny.

By: Captaintripps

Captaintripps — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 14:03:13 -0800

davelog: I recall something else from ages ago that points to this site as parody. I think ibmcginty caught on with his analysis of the writing. You've been had. In that fashion it was good, though not inherently funny itself.

By: gwint

gwint — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 14:03:17 -0800

Um, is there really anything to discuss here? I agree with davelog: it's a parody-- intentional or not. Yawn.

By: RockCorpse

RockCorpse — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 14:04:19 -0800

Glocks down, folks. We can tag the corpses after the smoke clears. Umm...good eye, davelog.

By: Flem Snopes

Flem Snopes — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 14:13:43 -0800

Hugo von Hofmannsthal once remarked that "all powerful imaginations are conservative." It is time for conservatives to utilize their imaginations and reclaim the field of aesthetics from the left-that is, while there is still something left in the aesthetic realm worth reclaiming. Conservatives will always be more imaginitive as it concerns finding pornography, obscenity or other immorality in places where it doesn't exist. /snark This piece is an incoherent and contradictory screed on why his tastes are superior to those of "the left" (whatever TF that means in this context). I'm guessing here, but as Pantera hailed from Texas, I imagine that a sizeable portion of its fan base was comprised of some red-blooded Republicans. Grim had it right when he said "De gustibus non disputandem est." He should have stopped himself right there.

By: fungible

fungible — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 14:22:00 -0800

[crotchety old man voice] You goddamn kids get off of my lawn!

By: thomcatspike

thomcatspike — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 14:29:06 -0800

It was highly amusing, and also terribly sad, to watch on television fans conducting a "vigil" for the slain Mr. Abbott outside of the Alrosa Villa. It was an assemblage of ignorant, semi-human barbarians who were filthy in attire and manner, intellectually incoherent and above all else, hideously ugly to the point of physical deformity. Maybe if the author lived where Abbot was from, Arlington, Tx., he would have a better understanding of what he saw.

By: koeselitz

koeselitz — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 14:47:20 -0800

Ah, the Iconoclast. As the tagline at the top of the website says, they're dedicated to "Semiotics, Ebonics, Intertextuality, Postmodernism." Just like every "popular conservative web site." Based in Canada. This site is extremely funny, and demonstrates that Canadians are smarter than me. It got especially good about the time that I started wondering whether they were faking the fake headlines conservatives would make, or faking the fake fake headlines people who hate conservatives would make to mock the conservatives.

By: pyramid termite

pyramid termite — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 14:53:49 -0800

but really ... was bach conservative for his time? ... were beethoven or haydn? ... an art that slavishly follows what is already considered great and worthy is going to be a second hand art and will lack the tension that is essential to greatness my view is that if the conservatives are going to put forth this argument, then they need to put up or shut up - produce great art that follows the standards they admire, or continue to bitch uselessly in the corner ... anyone can be a critic ... if he feels that today's music or poetry is lacking then he needs to get off his ass and produce some that he feels is worthy ... instead of expecting to be handed some by the people who've invested the time to learn their craft i'd think a conservative wouldn't have a an attitude of entitlement like this ... wouldn't be acting like a welfare mother saying "gimme" no, mr. grim, you either put your ideals into practice and produce the art you want or you sit on the sidelines ... there's no such thing as free culture anymore than there is a free lunch

By: koeselitz

koeselitz — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 15:02:33 -0800

Also, all the images on the iconoclast seem to come from here, which may or may not be a parody. Although, sadly, I'm leaning toward "not." It's very postmodern. "See, it becomes parody when you put it on another web site."

By: koeselitz

koeselitz — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 15:30:32 -0800

More of "Mr. William E. Grim's" (he's the seventh one down there) articles: "Danish Government Wants to Ban 'Deep-Linking'" "Physicist Creates Cold Fusion By Combining Pasta and Anti-Pasta" "World Traffic Court Hears First Case" From here. (Sorry, tripod.) Surprisingly, this guy writes jazz reviews. Not surprisingly, his funny articles aren't always that funny.

By: kmartino

kmartino — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 15:54:33 -0800

This was the very first link I've posted to Metafilter. I felt compelled to share my anger. Apologies. Was this a parody? Was he making a joke?

By: kmartino

kmartino — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 15:59:57 -0800

Geez, this is what I get for posting too damn fast. I think it *was* a joke. A, really, really bad one. My first Metafilter post and I've been duped. Grrrrrrr-arrrgggg! The thing makes me angry again!

By: rushmc

rushmc — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:27:30 -0800

It's poorly written and badly reasoned (and I dislike metal more than most): "I do not understand exactly why I prefer Haydn to my good friend who prefers Beethoven." Methinks that sentence does not say what he thinks it does. Some of the reasoning in the responses here is just as weak, though ("The Grin prick hates heavy metal (and probably all rock by extension)"). And where are all the "big words" that people keep referring to? I didn't see any...or are they only challenging to people who only listen to heavy metal music? On preview: Ah. Joke. I see.

By: bardic

bardic — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:34:50 -0800

Stryper!

By: pompomtom

pompomtom — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:35:50 -0800

Come on, fair's fair.... metal does suck.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:38:32 -0800

*handcuffs pompomtom and rushmc to radiator, plays Ride The Lightning, British Steel and Reign In Blood on recurring loop* It's for your own good, boys.

By: kmartino

kmartino — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:46:12 -0800

And Master of Puppets and Diary of a Madman. Ya got good taste jonmc. Sorry I posted what is probably a parody. A terrible parody.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:53:06 -0800

Parody or not, I've had to listen to stuffed shirt shitheads who think that way my whole life. It felt good to spew at him anyway. Frankly, I'm surprised the bluenoses and panic mongerers haven't come roaring out of the woodwork after this incident. *fires up the Misfits version of "Last Caress" and dedicates it to the author of this piece, parody or not*

By: Brandon Blatcher

Brandon Blatcher — Tue, 14 Dec 2004 19:31:34 -0800

stop throwing us red meat.

By: Flem Snopes

Flem Snopes — Wed, 15 Dec 2004 05:07:44 -0800

Parody or not, I've had to listen to stuffed shirt shitheads who think that way my whole life. It felt good to spew at him anyway. Amen to that. But my question: is post-post-modernist humor designed not to be funny?

By: koeselitz

koeselitz — Wed, 15 Dec 2004 07:32:00 -0800

kmartino: don't get down about it. I really like that iconoclast site; I'll be staring at it for some time to come. The fpp was worth it just for the weird dissonance it exudes. The difficulty with this piece is interesting, too. First of all, it's difficult for me to believe that anybody actually feels this way now; I'd thought the last few "kids-these-days" idiots drifted away around the time that the stupid wing of the conservative movement started endorsing things like DC Talk and Stryper. Hell, nowadays, more people like Sabbath than Bach; at least, if you had a poll, more people would be able to sing along with "Iron Man" or "Paranoid" than "Er Barme Dich." Yeah, there are a few pretentious listeners to classical music left, but most of them are composing music for robots to be performed at Julliard. But, second, I couldn't believe, as impossible as it seemed that this guy was serious, that anybody would be so unserious about somebody's death. The rest of the web site sort of seems to attest to a general unseriousness that's kind of scary. As I said, I don't know if that's intentional. I hope they're not really horribly jaded cynics. It's weird that that guy lives in Germany. I can't help but feel like he finally really is a complete jerk who thought it would be funny to screw with metalheads. He is into jazz, after all, which is kind of the last bastion of pretentiousness. He's an asshole either way. Either he thinks metal is stupid music, or, what is probably worse, he thinks that metalheads are idiots who it's fun to mock.

By: Faze

Faze — Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:29:02 -0800

koeselitz -- Some of my best friends are metalheads, but there's no question that they are "idiots who it is fun to mock." 1.) They actually think their hideous noise is scary and demonic. 2.) They actually think that some heavy metal is comparable to what is good in classical music, outside of certain loud, bombastic pieces (sorry johnmc) 3.) They seem to be unaware of the sad psychological shortcomings that their liking heavy metal reveals, and actually admit to liking it in public. All this said, I think heavy-metal fans are kinda cute, like Trekkies, and that it's sad that some bozo who couldn't tell the difference between art and life killed that poor ugly guitar player, whose career had been reduced to playing third tier rock clubs in Columbus suburbs.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:07:55 -0800

3.) They seem to be unaware of the sad psychological shortcomings that their liking heavy metal reveals, and actually admit to liking it in public. As opposed to those people who seem unaware of the sad psychological shortcomings that compulsively posting high-snark messages to community weblogs reveals? All this said, I think heavy-metal fans are kinda cute, There's several of my old metalhead associates I'd loove to introduce you to. They'd find you "cute." In that Deliverance sort of way.

By: davelog

davelog — Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:42:47 -0800

Although there are fans (which Gene recently reminded us comes from fanatic) of all genres, metal fans are the ones who have no reservations about gettings sweaty, pummelled, and bloody. Something to remember when poking them with the ole' judgemental stick.

By: kmartino

kmartino — Wed, 15 Dec 2004 16:27:19 -0800

Thanks for the cheerup koeselitz. Let me double that Amen too.

By: y2karl

y2karl — Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:57:15 -0800

or, what is probably worse, he thinks that metalheads are idiots who it's fun to mock. Not that this thread does anything to dispel that notion...