Comments on: false selves, real selves, and other selves

false selves, real selves, and other selves

amberglow — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 04:25:40 -0800

Once, i had a secret ~~love~~life.... The urge to act out an entirely different persona is widely shared across cultures as well, social scientists say, and may be motivated by curiosity, mischief or earnest soul-searching. Certainly, it is a familiar tug in the breast of almost anyone who has stepped out of his or her daily life for a time, whether for vacation, for business or to live in another country. On secret lives, for good and bad. We're in this too: "I think what people are doing on the Internet now," she said, "has deep psychological meaning in terms of how they're using identities to express problems and potentially solve them in what is a relatively consequence-free zone." Yet out in the world, a consequence-rich zone, studies find that most people find it mentally exhausting to hold onto inflammatory secrets - much less lives - for long. (NYT, reg.req.)

By: math

math — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 04:51:39 -0800

(Off-topic comment: I appreciate the Calamity Jane reference in your title. Yay Doris Day!)

By: ewkpates

ewkpates — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 06:35:37 -0800

Secrecy is the beginning of pathology. And why wouldn't it be? Why is something kept secret? Shame.

By: Corky

Corky — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 06:40:39 -0800

Having had personal experience with someone who had a dark secret life for years, I can testify that the tension is unbearable. For the secret-keeper, and for the persons supposedly kept in the dark, it is extremely destructive. This statement was particularly chilling for me to read: In a famous paper on the subject of double lives, published in 1960, the English analyst Dr. Donald W. Winnicott argued that a false self emerged in particular households where children are raised to be so exquisitely tuned to the expectations of others that they become deaf to their own longings and needs. "In effect, they bury a part of themselves alive... " The feeling of being buried alive works both ways. Loving a secret-keeper is the most awful love to try to sustain. No one has deep secrets without some backwash into their 'real' lives. Even if it is only a low-grade tension, the effect is still debilitating. I knew about the secrets, knew all about them, but was frozen with my own terror and couldn't react. The slow dance around the 'elephant in the room' was the most painful emotional experience I've ever known. Ultimately, the elephant crushed us both. The statistics for relationships that have been buffeted by this kind of storm are not good. Almost all fail. You would be saddened to know how many marriages have been doomed by a partner's secret life. "... has deep psychological meaning in terms of how they're using identities to express problems and potentially solve them in what is a relatively consequence-free zone." Yet out in the world, a consequence-rich zone, studies find that most people find it mentally exhausting to hold onto inflammatory secrets - much less lives - for long. I have known women that have emerged from this cesspool and began to reclaim their lives. In therapy, they discover how much of their own personality was buried under the weight of their partner's secrets - and their own. Yet, when they begin to interact with the world again, I have seen these same women create a secret persona on dating sites that was part 'them' and part who they wanted to be. They found it easier to be funny, sexy, playful, and open when they hid (at least partially) behind a false name and personality. Not unlike their partners, they were one person online, and another when they signed off. The women in my group learned much about themselves through this (self) deception, almost as if they were trying on different aspects of their personalities, and subsequently made an effort to integrate their online and real lives. In most cases, it worked. What you see is what you get - now. We all have secrets. We all long for a place where our secrets are safe.

By: tgrundke

tgrundke — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 07:04:47 -0800

I found the article to be very interesting, and Corky, I found your additions and insights to be absolutely fascinating.

By: trharlan

trharlan — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 07:10:55 -0800

We all have secrets. I have none. Now if you'll excuse me, I have just had a telegram to say that my poor friend Bunbury is very ill again. They seem to think I should be with him.

By: three blind mice

three blind mice — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 07:21:50 -0800

We all have secrets. We all long for a place where our secrets are safe. well said corky. at the end of the day, the secrets are not really the issue. it is the lies, fraud, and deception that one engages in to conceal them that is emotionally destructive. in this regard, the internet may well be more of an destructive enabler than a healthy release.

By: ewkpates

ewkpates — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 07:39:37 -0800

Start now. Tell your secrets to anyone who wants to know. The truth shall set you free. Well, let's see, lying certainly hasn't worked... That's what is most interesting about secrets. They're lies. But lies that we lie about, by calling them a different name. Wow. It's a maze without a way out.

By: jefgodesky

jefgodesky — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 07:54:55 -0800

Secrecy is self-defeating.

By: rainbaby

rainbaby — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 08:03:34 -0800

Telling secrets makes gossip, not truth, IMO. It's just as true if I keep my council, and don't spread the hurt or dirt or whatever the case may be. The examples in the article are extreme, of course, and demonstrate pathology. And I don't mean to belittle Corky's experiences, but if secrecy and reinvention and fantasy are basic human needs, why should we feel bad about it? I do agree that now, in a more mobile world, where many more people pull up roots multiple times, the romance of running away may be stronger, and the internet is definitely an enabler, bless it's heartless heart.

By: rushmc

rushmc — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 08:07:20 -0800

Sockpuppet seduction.

By: Danf

Danf — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 08:07:50 -0800

Secrecy is the beginning of pathology. And why wouldn't it be? Why is something kept secret? Shame. Would that life were so simple. . .but I am glad that MeFi has a least one person that has it (life) all figured out.

By: AlexReynolds

AlexReynolds — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 08:11:12 -0800

Decent film on the subject. A secret life of a different kind.

By: vhsiv

vhsiv — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 08:33:01 -0800

Two words: Strom Thurmond.

By: orange clock

orange clock — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 09:07:27 -0800

We all have secrets. We all long for a place where our secrets are safe. posted by Corky at 9:40 AM EST on January 11 That's really corny.

By: davy

davy — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 09:28:41 -0800

What's a "secret"? Can you wear it or eat it?

By: semmi

semmi — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 09:31:09 -0800

Interesting article, unfortunately packaging too many essentially different items that don't belong together.
Situationally, we're all capable living lives of different characters, and sometimes feel frustrated with being stuck in a single one with strict perimeters, imposed by others. The natural urge is to explore the various ways of our own potential characters. The ambition of most actors founded in this desire to "live" many lives. Similarly, personal potentials (secrets) are explored, created, and lived in the contexts of other art forms as well.
While love can be an artistic (spiritual) endeavor, I don't believe sex is, without the imagination giving substance to it.
Secrets that involve hurting other people belong to another category. (I admit to not having a SM mindset, so I'm out of my depth here.)
Of course, what I'm saying here is camouflaging my more private secrets.

By: ewkpates

ewkpates — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 09:53:05 -0800

Figuring out life isn't the tough part. The tough part is keeping yourself on the path you choose, and not quitting to watch television and order pizza. When you agree to keep other people's secrets, you agree to participate in a lie. Bad idea. If lying worked, more of would be happy doing it. Anyone who doesn't think that sex can be artistic and spiritual should a) practice more; and b) spend more time with those who understand sex as art; oh! and c) watch ballett.

By: aerify

aerify — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 10:08:21 -0800

Blah. I have no secrets whatsoever, but I tend to think that's because I have no life. Or nothing exciting in it, anyway. Maybe it's just me but I can't bring myself to trust someone I consider secretive. If someone has something to hide, it suggests that a) it's bad, b) it's shameful (either to them or others), or c) it's nothing, but they pretend to have a secret to enhance their "mystique".

By: amberglow

amberglow — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 10:09:18 -0800

i'm with you on that last part, ewk. : > I loved the part in the article about how some alternate personas online can actually be empowering and helpful in the real world (that girl's story). We all live multiple, overlapping, and intersecting lives, and are always more complicated than we seem. We're expected to fill different roles at work, at home, in our circles of friends, etc--which aren't always who we really are, or if not that, don't always allow us enough expression of who we are.

By: mrgrimm

mrgrimm — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 10:10:40 -0800

There's nothing wrong with keeping secrets. There are some things some people don't need to know. Some are obviously more destructive than others, but personal secrets aren't bad in principle. No matter how explosive the secret, it's not that hard to keep it. Just think about something else. ;) I guess I'm a born "repressor."

By: semmi

semmi — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 10:29:24 -0800

Blah. I have no secrets whatsoever, but I tend to think that's because I have no life. Or nothing exciting in it, anyway. ewkpates: pretend to have a secret to enhance your "mystique" that'll bring excitement into your life.

By: rainbaby

rainbaby — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 10:44:25 -0800

I have my secrets, and I'm not trustworthy, but you can trust me with your secrets. Secrets do not equal lies. Full disclosure is not always the best policy. I know a surprise party isn't what we're talking about here, but there is certainly a long road from that to a double life.

By: Mayor Curley

Mayor Curley — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 10:58:03 -0800

Should I tell my fiancee that I killed a hooker in '98? It might be cathartic to tell her.

By: semmi

semmi — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 11:16:46 -0800

Should I tell my fiancee that I killed a hooker in '98? It might be cathartic to tell her. Is she a hooker?

By: semmi

semmi — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 11:20:21 -0800

Sorry, I should have said, --is he/she a hooker?

By: ewkpates

ewkpates — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 11:33:57 -0800

Let's review: A lie is something that you tell, as in "Secrets aren't lies". There are some lies (secrets) that are things YOU HAVEN'T TOLD. A secret is a lie you haven't told yet... I loove it when people say, "it's none of your business." I'll tell you what your business is... it's whatever I say it is, or whatever I decide not to tell you. As for the hooker fiancee situation, hmmm. Yes. You should tell them. I'd bet they'd rather know about your criminal record then have you lie about it, sorry, keep it a secret.

By: semmi

semmi — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 11:45:28 -0800

Aside our environmental context, we are born with nothing but with an instinctive unease about our vulnerable nakedness. We invent ourselves daily in our imagination. It's a long play with many characters fending for the core emptiness inside and around us. In another way, a bit better and more pompously: "For us artists there waits the joyous compromise through art, with all that has wounded or defeated us in daily life... not to evade destiny, as the ordinary people try to do, but to fulfill it in its true potential – the imagination." (Lawrence Durrell)

By: ewkpates

ewkpates — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 12:46:56 -0800

To make art is to tell the truth.

By: Timeless

Timeless — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 14:15:20 -0800

Does anybody else here have the urge to create a second MiFi account, just so you can talk about your other 'secret' life?

By: fixedgear

fixedgear — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 14:28:50 -0800

Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead. Benjamin Franklin

By: Secret Life of Gravy

Secret Life of Gravy — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 16:51:57 -0800

Just thought I should put in an appearance. Secrets: Its what's for dinner!

By: kamylyon

kamylyon — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 17:00:33 -0800

Sockpuppet seduction. Oh nevermind.

By: SenshiNeko

SenshiNeko — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 20:31:43 -0800

"I think what people are doing on the Internet now," she said, "has deep psychological meaning in terms of how they're using identities to express problems and potentially solve them in what is a relatively consequence-free zone." I suppose that should be comforting to the overweight divorced 55 year old guy who is in a chat room posing as a sweet 16 year old cheerleader? Actually, I read the deadtree version of the article this morning, and found the concept of a 'repressor' type (well equipped to keep secrets) to be quite interesting since I saw myself in the characterization... quite fitting for a former Army counterintelligence agent.

By: flannelmouth

flannelmouth — Sun, 16 Jan 2005 07:41:16 -0800

Come on people..........there are secrets that should be kept for good reason. I can think of about 50 in about two minutes. (Please don't test me on this). How about this....... If you are trying to get a job, and on the application you offer that you are gay, which you know might jeapordize your chances of getting that job in the case that the potential employer has issues with gays....... And, even when you know that it is not legal for him/her to exclude you, you know that he might exclude you anyhow. Isn't that a secret that one might be justified to keep due to the fact that our culture, in general, is still not ready to accept gays as equal?

By: amberglow

amberglow — Sun, 16 Jan 2005 07:47:47 -0800

sure--there are tons of things that shouldn't always be disclosed in every situation, but those aren't secrets so much as judicious revealing. (unless that's a rationalization--i've been fired for being gay, and know you never bring it up until after you're in--unless you're applying for work at a gay company or non-profit, or you know thay already know and are ok with it, like if a friend recommended you and you know he's totally out at work)

By: flannelmouth

flannelmouth — Tue, 18 Jan 2005 03:15:03 -0800

Amberglow, I guess you might wanna explain the term "judicious revealing" a little better, but I am not sure it really matters. There is probably no need to get too "microscopic" here..... These are still pieces of personal information that one is keeping secret from others, correct? F