Cut-Rate Diplomas

January 11, 2005 12:41 PM

Cut-Rate Diplomas
Laura L. Callahan was very proud of her Ph.D... and she never let her employees at the Labor Department, where she served as deputy chief information officer, forget it.

To get her Ph.D., Callahan merely had to thumb through a workbook and take an open-book exam. The whole correspondence course-which includes instruction on business ethics-takes about five hours to complete. A 2,000-word paper (shorter than this article) counts as a dissertation.
posted by trharlan (71 comments total)

Prior discussion of diploma mills.

Great find, trharlan. It's sincerely amazining that someone couild hold onto a position anywhere, let alone the DoHS, for that long after being caught as a fraud.
posted by me3dia at 12:56 PM on January 11, 2005

Damn, and my wife took a whole month off from work to write her dissertation (economics), not to mention the 2 years of grueling coursework...d'oh!
posted by 1016 at 12:56 PM on January 11, 2005

Wow, reading that article, I was outraged by the enormous number of people who are defrauding our country with bogus credentials. I don't know what makes me madder - that my tax dollars are lining their pockets or that at least some of these people may be making more money than myself and my parents combined.

The one question I have is about the legality of this. Obviously these people should be and hopefully will be fired, but isn't this fraud? These people are traitors and should be lined up.
posted by crazy finger at 1:04 PM on January 11, 2005

Unbelievable.

I graduated Columbia and I make 3 times less than that bitch.
posted by orange clock at 1:06 PM on January 11, 2005

Interesting post. In my DoD agency, quite a few top level managers have MSA degrees from Central Michigan University. I had never heard of a Master of Sciences in Administration before I started working there, being more familiar with the standard MBA or even MPA. While I'm sure that CMU is a fine institution, the course work required always seemed kinda slim.
posted by fixedgear at 1:08 PM on January 11, 2005

Whoa, put down the gun there crazy finger.

Working for the DoHS under false pretences? Isn't tantamount to terrorism?

Guantanamo!!!
posted by RockCorpse at 1:10 PM on January 11, 2005

...although, how anybody holds down a job at DoHS is beyond me.
posted by RockCorpse at 1:11 PM on January 11, 2005

This reminds me of something very similar from last year. A Washington Post columnist published a story about a city employee who had obtained a PhD from a diploma mill. She remained on the job for several more months until she was finally -- no, not fired -- transferred.

She was a school principal.

Check out Hamilton University's web site.
posted by casu marzu at 1:16 PM on January 11, 2005

Really interesting article.

A bit of Googling brought up the Hamilton University website. I found this section of particular interest:

Admission Procedure

Admission to the university is of two types: (1) Invitation, and (2) Application. Invitations to enroll are issued by the Admissions Committee and primarily come from referral agencies and programs. Others wishing to enroll should request an enrollment application from the university’s administration office.

I wonder if these invitations say things like "Diplomas from prestigious non-accredited universities based on your present knowledge and life experience . . . bachelors, masters, MBA, and doctorate diplomas available in the field of your choice. No one is turned down . . . CALL NOW . . . "

60 Minutes did a story about Hamilton University, including a follow-up with Laura Callahan, recently.
posted by SisterHavana at 1:19 PM on January 11, 2005

fixedgear, I went to CMU, and it is not really a fine institution--just a mid-level state school that happens to churn out MSAs by the hundreds each semester. At my graduation (MA in History), fully 3/4 of the program was MSA students, most of whom had never set foot on CMU's flat and ugly campus, because most of them got their degrees through CMU's enormous College of Extended Learning.
posted by goatdog at 1:23 PM on January 11, 2005

Hamilton's website is a lovely example of how phonies try to legitimize themselves. Take a close look at the blurry photos, though, and you can see the Motel 6 architecture. Love the upward-angle photo to make it look like the spire of a stately college building.
posted by QuietDesperation at 1:24 PM on January 11, 2005

I guess this is a sort of devil's advocate question, but is being tempted to take the easy way out necessarily equivalent to scamming? I can see where some people would be thrilled at the prospect of easily obtaining a higher degree that they probably couldn't qualify for or afford otherwise.

It's an ambition full of pathos, but that doesn't mean the person set out to defraud their employer. (Or does it? Convince me.)
posted by mudpuppie at 1:26 PM on January 11, 2005

(Let me clarify the above: I think the university is a scammer. It's customers? I think they're just a little desparate.)
posted by mudpuppie at 1:27 PM on January 11, 2005

Well, if I didn't think the DOHS was a total joke when it was proposed, I sure do now. Takes these people 10 months to determine where her diploma came from and whether it is valid? Nice to see our tax dollars being wasted with a renewed vigor these last few years. How anyone can make the argument that Americans don't pay enough in taxes when this shit is going on daily, is, well....a dolt.
posted by j.p. Hung at 1:28 PM on January 11, 2005

fixedgear, I went to CMU, and it is not really a fine institution--just a mid-level state school that happens to churn out MSAs by the hundreds each semester.

Thanks, goatdog, that is sorta what I thought.
posted by fixedgear at 1:34 PM on January 11, 2005

People like this woman are what's wrong with the country. Not only did she cheat to get her "degree" but she lords that fake degree over her subordinates? What a lovely and despicable piece of work.
posted by fenriq at 1:36 PM on January 11, 2005

I graduated Columbia and I make 3 times less than that bitch.

I guess math and english weren't a part of the required curriculum at Columbia.
posted by Eekacat at 1:37 PM on January 11, 2005

Complete list of non-accredited schools, courtesy of the State of Michigan. (PDF) Take a look at how close the names of some of these schools are to actual accredited colleges: Boston City College, University of Boston, Clemson College, Darthmouth College, Middle Tennessee University, Notre Dame University...
posted by SisterHavana at 1:37 PM on January 11, 2005

mudpuppie,
It's fraud. She deliberately deceived her employer regarding her qualifications for the job, and was compensated on the basis of that deception.
It was intentional on her part, and she profited.
Pathetic, desperate, and probably illegal.
posted by Floydd at 1:38 PM on January 11, 2005

I don't mind newsfilter, but 18-month-old stalenewsfilter suqs. In other words, this is a really, really old story, first reported in May of 2003: "HSD official obtained Ph.D. from diploma mill Hell, the lady resigned more than nine months ago!
posted by mojohand at 1:40 PM on January 11, 2005

ok , its old and maybe it doesn't belong but since it's here ...

I feel like tracking down this lady and taking away everything she has. I mean everything. Sort of like what happens to Dan Ackroyd in Trading Places. Humiliate this bitch. Let people piss on her.

Sorry for the angst
posted by hpsell at 1:58 PM on January 11, 2005

Something similar to this happened locally to me. The top candidate for a school district superintendent job had received his Ph.D. from a diploma mill. That caused some outcry, but it wasn't enough to get the school board to stop considering him. However, a few weeks later he was in trouble again for having taken district money under false pretenses: he got tuition reimbursement for courses at a local university that he never enrolled for, let alone actually took. I think they've finally decided he's not a good candidate.
posted by tommasz at 2:07 PM on January 11, 2005

Wait a minute. What did she do that was illegal? She does have a Ph.D., it's just from a not-really-accredited college. She's clearly not qualified for her position, but if you're going to fire her, you've got to fire whoever hired her, first, since it was their job to find a qualified candidate, and verify their qualifications.
posted by Hildago at 2:11 PM on January 11, 2005

Whoa, put down the gun there crazy finger.

If this woman stole a candy bar from 7-11, she'd be in jail. This woman STOLE, through deception, hundreds of thousands of dollars from my country.

Is there a way that regular citizens in the United States can sue to recover her wages on the basis that we pay taxes?
posted by crazy finger at 2:17 PM on January 11, 2005

The quotes from Ms Callahan in the CBS story linked by SisterHavana are bizarre. She presents herself as an innocent duped by the "school" and she appears to believe that she really deserved the degrees. Either she has no problem telling ridiculous lies to an audience that knows she's lying or else she actually is so unaware of the reality of what goes into a degree that she actually does believe she earned her diplomas. I'm not sure which is more pathetic.

On preview - hidalgo, I've got no problem with firing the people who hired & promoted her. Sounds good to me.
posted by tdismukes at 2:18 PM on January 11, 2005

Yeah, what I really don't get is how she got the job to begin with! Apparently she didn't even have a real BA...
posted by mdn at 2:18 PM on January 11, 2005

Using a bogus degree to get a job or promotion is illegal only in Oregon, New Jersey, Indiana, Illinois, North Dakota and Nevada, where it is a misdemeanor mainly punishable by fines ranging from $350 to $2,500. But violators rarely face prosecution.

There ought to be a law.
posted by Floydd at 2:24 PM on January 11, 2005

Hildago: I also have a Ph.D, from an accredited college..when I compare the load of work I sustained and the load sustained by some other Ph.D from a not-accredited college the difference is such that send me shivers down my spine.

Why should I care ? I got a Ph.D , I'm accredited..so why do I care about her ? Envy ?

Maybe, maybe I don't like the fact she managed to scam some idiots into believing a piece of paper is enough to ascertain the qualities of one person...good for her, she scammed people who probably were scammers themselves.

Problem is she scammed people that is supposed to manage MY and OUR tax money ; it's much like giving money to a bank on the grounds that bank do well because of free-market blah blah phoney baloney to discover that, oh joy , the people in there are all Ph.D. in scamming.

It's the same as getting a friendly, honest garbage can tosser into the control room of a nuclear reactor and ask him "Ok Joe, you're responsible for the whole lot, have fun ! "...there's probably one Joe out of 1000^100 able to do that alone out of pure talent ...but what if we don't get the right Joe ?
posted by elpapacito at 2:36 PM on January 11, 2005

Ahaha only $2500 ? Make it proportional to declared income :D What a JOKE of a law :)
posted by elpapacito at 2:38 PM on January 11, 2005

Everybody: start writing letters to your Congressperson!
posted by crazy finger at 2:44 PM on January 11, 2005

A face to the name.

She has enrolled again in the accredited distance-learning institution to pursue a bachelor’s degree in computer science, according to the college registrar’s office.

Hiring managers, keep the name fresh in your mind.
posted by fluffycreature at 2:57 PM on January 11, 2005

Takes these people 10 months to determine where her diploma came from and whether it is valid?

Shit, it took DHS/BCIS that long to make sure that my bride, born in Toronto in 1967, had not been a member of the Nazi party between 1933 and 1945.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:04 PM on January 11, 2005

Ahahahahaha ROU ....can we know why she was subjected to such an investigation or it's tooo private.
posted by elpapacito at 3:08 PM on January 11, 2005

Nobody has yet mentioned whether she was any good at the job. Funny that. I see a lot of people miserable that they pissed away a ton of money and are now jealous that she was able to get around a system that proves little of your actual ability to perform. Good for her.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 3:08 PM on January 11, 2005

Wow, it looks like the entire Hamilton University campus is a converted church.
posted by substrate at 3:14 PM on January 11, 2005

I see a lot of people miserable that they pissed away a ton of money and are now jealous that she was able to get around a system that proves little of your actual ability to perform.

First of all, she was in computer science (well, "computer information systems" - that may actually be more like library science.) She would have been paid to get a PhD if she were any good, so it's she who pissed away money. The "system" that she got around would have done more than make her take a couple classes and read some textbooks - she would have been required to make an original research contribution in the field. Publications in peer-reviewed journals and conferences would have been expected. In other words, her "ability to perform" would have been completely established.
posted by transona5 at 3:18 PM on January 11, 2005

Nobody has yet mentioned whether she was any good at the job.

Bzzzt. Wrong, but that you for playing. CD, did you bother to read the article or comments? There has indeed been MUCH mention of her incompetence. It had been noted for years by her subordinates, and her employee file was full of complaints. It's plain that she was seriously lacking in bother managerial and technical competence.
posted by nakedcodemonkey at 3:21 PM on January 11, 2005

did you bother to read the article or comments? There has indeed been MUCH mention of her incompetence

I read it and saw nothing much different than the kind of crap most bad managers give their employees. If she hadn't been such an ass about the whole "call me Doctor" thing, she probably would have skated by on the work of others. Again, just like most bad managers with degrees.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 3:37 PM on January 11, 2005

...she was in computer science (well, "computer information systems"...)

CS and CIS are not the same discipline. Greatly oversimplified, CS is about creating platforms and applications while CIS is about using them. Any CIO needs to be very well versed in both technology and business management, because the job is essentially to be the bridge between those two worlds. A CIS grad isn't likely to write any code but may oversee many who do. A CIS grad may not get to set business policy, but her/his choices are often pivotal to the success or failure of a policy. More info here.
posted by nakedcodemonkey at 3:47 PM on January 11, 2005

In my DoD agency, quite a few top level managers have MSA degrees from Central Michigan University...While I'm sure that CMU is a fine institution, the course work required always seemed kinda slim.


In my DoD experience, I see a lot of this, too. Many government folks or contractors get degrees from instutions that seem rather light on the coursework, although I can't corroborate any instances of non-accredited degrees.
posted by RikiTikiTavi at 4:04 PM on January 11, 2005

Ahahahahaha ROU ....can we know why she was subjected to such an investigation or it's tooo private

It's a standard, if now outdated, question on various immigration forms that you send to BCIS and BCIS slowly digests (think Sarlaac here) and then they get back to you so you can go jump through even more hoops.

Just my way of saying that, hey, DHS takes forever to do anything, why would this be an exception?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:06 PM on January 11, 2005

Another cut-rate diploma mill.

(okay, not cheap, but the grade inflation is obscene)
posted by thedevildancedlightly at 4:13 PM on January 11, 2005

Since it was missed on another thread, I'll put out that this is at least the fifth time you've linked to Harvard Sucks since December 22nd.
posted by trey at 4:16 PM on January 11, 2005

People like this woman are what's wrong with the country. Not only did she cheat to get her "degree" but she lords that fake degree over her subordinates? What a lovely and despicable piece of work.

Fenriq, I have no degree, as I dropped out of college during my third year to take a paying job in my chosen field, and never looked back.

Sadly, you've made me feel guilty for lording my lack of outstanding student loans over my degreed friends.

Actually, I paid by the semester by working three part time jobs...perhaps I don't feel TOO guilty...
posted by davejay at 4:36 PM on January 11, 2005

davejay, I'm sorry about that. To me, this isn't about loans and debts, its about pretending to have worked to achieve something that they haven't.

She didn't earn her "degree" and yet she was constantly mashing it in people's faces? That just tells me she's a walking shitheel.

Don't feel guilty if you're in a happy place now. If I didn't need my degree I would have partied for those seven years (or was it eight?).
posted by fenriq at 5:06 PM on January 11, 2005

I am charmed that my alma-mater inspired a non accredited institution, Laurence University.

What scares me more than the phoney degree is the way this obviously incompetent women flourished in the federal government. Please tell me it isn't that easy. I thought only the political appointees were idiots.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 5:19 PM on January 11, 2005

The difficult thing about r?sum? scandals is knowing how to spell them.
posted by jmccorm at 5:21 PM on January 11, 2005

Choice quote from the Hamilton "University" website:
The Board of Trustees operates Hamilton University in strict accordance with its official by-laws.

An impressive sounding statement which, when you consider that they write the official by-laws, means diddily. The by-laws could specify that they must take a minimum of three bribes per week, or hire a prostitute every Thursday. I'm impressed and amazed that they operate in strict accordance with their own official by-laws.
posted by sotonohito at 6:26 PM on January 11, 2005

Having graduated (with a BS and a MS) from a good school, and having been in the workplace for more than 10 years, I have to question the current value of my degree. I am not directly using anything that I learned in college, and although my education pushed me in the direction of my career, the education I received is no longer relevant to it.

I have benefitted and continue to benefit immensely from the weight of my "credentials", but I have to question whether that is morally correct. My education only illustrates that, at one time in my life, I was willing to do what it takes to get a degree from a prestigious institution. Is that all the degree is now, a statement on my "character" to potential employers, and nothing more?

What value is a degree ten, twenty, or even forty years after you are awarded it? How relevant is it in the workplace? Are degrees merely means of sorting out groups of people for the rest of their lives? As such, is it really fair to use a degree (or lack of one) against someone who has plenty of recent and relevant work experience?

I recognize that this woman is the anti-poster-child of my argument...
posted by RalphSlate at 6:43 PM on January 11, 2005

Separation of Degrees

Clever subhead.
posted by NickDouglas at 7:19 PM on January 11, 2005

Thank you, Ralph, for saying what I was trying to in a much more civilized manner.

Another aspect of the degreed professional, particularly the Ph.D., is that your degree can be in something completely esoteric and specific, yet fall under a general category--"Boils and Tumors on the Urban Poor in 17th Century Portugal" for example might fall under "Public Policy", but it's unlikely you'll ever use that great research once you get a job at Urban Development.

If the educational right of passage didn't require a significant investment of capital, I wouldn't feel so strongly against it. But as it stands, there are plenty of smart people who simply don't have the money to get a Ph.D., and because they don't have a Ph.D., they won't be eligible for higher-paying positions that might afford them the opportunity to save enough money to go back to school... etc. It is, once again, another way of keeping the poor in their place, regardless of their actual experience or knowledge.

Naturally, many doctorate programs end up leading directly to the commercial sector; I acknowledge that someone working in cancer research could easily parley that into a career. In many professions, however, the line is not clear. Particularly the non-sciences (like--ugh--management).
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 7:30 PM on January 11, 2005

What scares me, since I have a technical degree from an accredited university and work in high tech, is that this woman used her phony degrees to wield supreme power over those who worked for her.

Can you imagine being in the meeting with a CIO who literally had no clue?

And she wanted to be the CIO for Homeland Security? Do you realize what that Department is trying to accomplish technologically? How could someone who spent a year getting fake degrees ever be able to handle the sheer enormity of this project, let alone manage the ethical problems that arise from creating such a huge database?
posted by gminks at 7:41 PM on January 11, 2005

When will these people wise up ,and buy a fake degree from some unpronounceable Welsh diploma mill? No HR person is going to call a prestigious college with a name they can't say, and GB degrees are quite the thing. Bonus points if you can fake an accent.
posted by QIbHom at 7:51 PM on January 11, 2005

there are plenty of smart people who simply don't have the money to get a Ph.D.

Again, they pay you to get a PhD if you're in a technical field. A tuition waiver and a completely adequate stipend to live on. And the degree itself really isn't in the exact specific area you did your thesis in. Even though you might go on to do the same thing - the thesis does, after all, make you one of the authorities on and contributors to that narrow field - it's also about the experience you've gained from that research and the abilities you've proved by doing it.
posted by transona5 at 7:53 PM on January 11, 2005

What Ralph said does resonate to some degree....some notable exceptions are physicians, architects, and the like, who use their college-learned knowledge almost daily to some extent. The "softer" studies, however, do serve as more of a statement on one's character and ability to slog through coursework and set goals and work to achieve them.

Not necessarily bad, or wrong -- it just *is* and it's reality.
posted by davidmsc at 8:02 PM on January 11, 2005

(Incidentally, my mother is a professor at Central Michigan University, where she is considered a legendarily hard grader for failing student who are unable to spell, construct simple sentences in English, or understand the content of questions asked on quizzes. Central is very much a third-rate school, and while it is possible to get a perfectly good education there if you try and they even have some very good programs in certain subjects, like the Ojibwe/Anishnabe language program, it's also pretty easy to skate through without learning a darn thing.)
posted by kyrademon at 8:30 PM on January 11, 2005

I am not directly using anything that I learned in college, and although my education pushed me in the direction of my career, the education I received is no longer relevant to it

Since your degrees seem to be in science:

You didn't learn how to conduct library/electronic research, and locate relevant information on whatever your project is?
You didn't learn how to sift through the resulting pile of information for what's relevant?
You didn't learn how to communicate technical concerns to other people who might not be expert in your particular area?
You didn't learn how to work together with others for extended periods with a distant goal?
You didn't learn how to efficiently learn new subjects and materials, and how to build from one base of knowledge to another?

Employers don't necessarily care all that much about the particular subject-specific knowledge and skills you acquired in college, except in technical areas. They often care more about the meta-skills.

What value is a degree ten, twenty, or even forty years after you are awarded it?

Nil. Most employers (outside gov't, but even there sometimes) won't give a fig where or if you got your degree when you've been working in the industry for 20 years and have a record of accomplishment to show. Except for having an old-boy network.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:05 PM on January 11, 2005

"Boils and Tumors on the Urban Poor in 17th Century Portugal" for example might fall under "Public Policy", but it's unlikely you'll ever use that great research once you get a job at Urban Development.

Nor would anyone expect you to, in that case. They'd expect you to have good communication skills, to be able to work for long periods on single projects without pats on the back in the meantime, to be a good textual analyst, maybe to have reasonable skills at statistical or qualitative analysis, to be able to pick up the skills and tools needed for a particular project more-or-less on your own, and so on.

Even in academe, it's common for people to work in areas fairly far from whatever their dissertation was on, though still in the same discipline (and sometimes not even that).
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:11 PM on January 11, 2005

Again, they pay you to get a Ph.D. if you're in a technical field.

You've said this twice now, and piqued my curiosity. Who, exactly, will pay me to get a technical Ph.D.? Because I'd be all over that like mayonnaise on tuna fish. And I think a lot of other people would be as well.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 9:44 PM on January 11, 2005

You've said this twice now, and piqued my curiosity. Who, exactly, will pay me to get a technical Ph.D.?

In the physical sciences, any PhD-granting department that's even remotely worth going to.

It's not nearly as universal in the social sciences or humanities, but still very common, at least at the caliber of departments whose students routinely get tenure-track, research-university jobs.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:41 PM on January 11, 2005

Civil_Disobedient, most sciences PhDs in the US are funded, and paid a stipend too. Though there is no general fund that covers everyone, there's quite a number of fellowships available (the NSF generally adds about 900 fellows per year for example) and individual universities and departments have their own funds available for grad students as well. You can even get an MD/PhD free under the NIH's MSTP program. The thing is, it's not free money: the majority of your time, at or beyond the amount you'd spend at a full-time job, will be spent in a lab working under a professor, including conducting a lot of research besides that leading to your dissertation. You will likely have at least a few semesters of teaching required as well. The reason why they do this is pretty obvious: the US needs well-trained scientists, and without the funding very few people would be able to make it through a program. With the funding, the best and brightest compete to fill the available spots and the US gets plenty of people to develop the technologies underlying its artificial hearts and nuclear reactors and deadly plagues and so on.
posted by monocyte at 10:59 PM on January 11, 2005

Civil_Disobedient - A good friend of mine is getting her PhD in plant biology at Berkeley in for free (including living expenses) courtesy of an NSF grant. She lives better than I do, and she's getting a great education.
posted by thedevildancedlightly at 11:24 PM on January 11, 2005

Civil_D - The key, of course, is getting in - a LOT of the Ivy-type schools give full rides (plus stipeds) to any sort of arts-sciences grad student (any non-professional degree) in exchange for TA-ing a few classes. It works out to a couple hundred dollars per hours if you try to pretend that the stiped is for TA-ing.
posted by thedevildancedlightly at 11:26 PM on January 11, 2005

One thing no one mentioned is that some non-accredited schools are actually pretty good. New schools in particular can't get accreditation until they've had a graduating class, and meet curriculum requirements that vary from meaningful to sort of silly.

The one I've heard of that struck me as questionable required freshmen to have a certain number of hours devoted to learning-to-succeed sorts of things. While time management skills and such are important, they seem like an odd requirement for accreditation.

A diploma from an accredited school might be valuable for certain things, but I really wish there were more focus on figuring out if a given job applicant can do the job, not just if they've found a place that will give them a degree.
posted by lorimt at 12:10 AM on January 12, 2005

I was paid to get my physics PhD, sort of. My school was the only one in the Big 10 not to give tuition waivers to graduate assistants, but I was paid enough through teaching and research assistantships to eek out a meager (though carless) existence and pay tuition without accumulating an absurd amount of credit card debt. I can only think of one graduate student in a decade of college-level physics and astronomy who didn't have an assistantship of some kind, and that was only for one year.
posted by dirigibleman at 1:48 AM on January 12, 2005

C_D: You could apply for PhD grants in the UK also, they do take on overseas students. It usually works by your finding a dept that has a grant available for specific research, though how specific can vary significantly, particularly across disciplines. (for example, a chemistry project would often be linked to a particular grant, less science-y stuff might be vaguer and give more scope to the researcher to pursue their own interests - my own PhD grant (renewable energy policy) was like this. Try guardian jobs, jobs.ac.uk for advertised openings or the various research councils for more info. (Economic and Social RC, Natural Environment RC, Engineering and Physical Science RC. The money won't be great, maybe about £10,000 a year, maybe more in some disciplines, but the current exchange rate may make this more appealing to you as an American. It is livable, thogh perhaps with some difficulty if you were to pick London.
posted by biffa at 2:44 AM on January 12, 2005

Thank you, everyone, for the wide array of information.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:28 AM on January 12, 2005

A good friend of mine is getting her PhD in plant biology at Berkeley in for free (including living expenses) courtesy of an NSF grant. She lives better than I do, and she's getting a great education.

Let's not give anyone any delusions about the luxuries of grad school, ok? Most departments in the scientific and engineering disciplines do indeed pay stipends, but that covers your living expenses and not much more. Especially considering the job prospects for PhD's (competition for the good, high-paying jobs is extremely intense), you will make much more money in both the long- and short-term with just a bachelor's degree in a white-collar job, and some elbow grease. You should only get a PhD if you are really obsessed with a subject, and you really want to work in academia or research.

A pretty good depiction of graduate student life.
posted by casu marzu at 7:12 AM on January 12, 2005

Let's not give anyone any delusions about the luxuries of grad school, ok?

If you're good enough to get an NSF fellowship, which were upgraded not so long ago, life really is pretty okay. The stipend is $30K, compared to your average basic stipend of $12-18K.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:48 AM on January 12, 2005

You should only get a PhD if you are really obsessed with a subject, and you really want to work in academia or research.

There was an infamous survey performed (back in the 80s) by the Science and Engineering Research Council (as it was then) in the UK. It found that, on average, PhD graduates couldn't catch up with the promotion and earnings success of Bachelors graduates over the length of their career. They started 3-6 years behind and many employers perceived them as over-specialized and too academic.
posted by normy at 8:28 AM on January 12, 2005

monocyte: You can even get an MD/PhD free under the NIH's MSTP program

Very tangentially, "hey!". I have a friend who's wife just started this program at the University of Washington (a total party school when it comes to medicine). My friend is a Microsoftie who's been aggressively saving his upper percentile paychecks to pay off the bulk of his mortgage in only a few years, so that he can quit his job, live on her stipend (which isn't very much, but is near what she was making working in the genome center there as a lab tech) and him working part-time jobs, and the remainder of his mortgage can be paid off like a cheap rent.
posted by hincandenza at 4:13 PM on January 13, 2005