Comments on: We Are The Members Of The Master Race, Got No Style And We Got No Grace...

We Are The Members Of The Master Race, Got No Style And We Got No Grace...

jonmc — Tue, 25 Jan 2005 17:04:31 -0800

The Dictators. Even in this age of crate-digger archaeology, especially when it comes to the roots of punk rock, this band of Bronx miscreants is little known except to cognoscenti. The stream of punk most identified with The Ramones (unapologetically crude three-minute pop singles, pop culture obsessed, based around fun, what Tom Carson called "deadly serious kidding") began with these guys first three albums and lives on in the work of The Muffs, Nashville Pussy, The Supersuckers and countless others. A rock and roll treasure often overlooked.

By: rushmc

rushmc — Tue, 25 Jan 2005 17:19:10 -0800

crate-digger archaeology ?

By: jonmc

jonmc — Tue, 25 Jan 2005 17:21:13 -0800

crate-digger=guys who dig through crates in used record stores looking for obscure records. The archaelogy part refers to the tendency of music geeks to look for undiscovered artifacts that point towrd future trends. /pedant

By: jonmc

jonmc — Tue, 25 Jan 2005 17:23:18 -0800

undiscovered artifacts that point towrd future trends. ...and these guys definitely qualify. I'd venture that they're the missing link between 70's butt-rock and punk to come.

By: VP_Admin

VP_Admin — Tue, 25 Jan 2005 17:44:53 -0800

Johnny Ramone was a Bush-lover.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Tue, 25 Jan 2005 17:46:48 -0800

I know. This thread is not about the Ramones.

By: liam

liam — Tue, 25 Jan 2005 17:47:13 -0800

Even in this age of crate-digger archaeology, especially when it comes to the roots of punk rock, this band of Bronx miscreants is little known except to cognoscenti. And those who have drunk at Handsome Dick's bar in New York.

By: rushmc

rushmc — Tue, 25 Jan 2005 18:00:32 -0800

By: jonmc

jonmc — Tue, 25 Jan 2005 18:18:17 -0800

Carry on. Which was the title the best song by Dictators' guitarist Ross The Boss's post-Dictators metal band Manowar. Yes, I'm a geek. A dork, even.

By: Wolfdog

Wolfdog — Tue, 25 Jan 2005 18:29:26 -0800

No, Blood of My Enemies.

By: JeffL

JeffL — Tue, 25 Jan 2005 18:40:30 -0800

For me, these guys are hopelessly tainted by their association with 1) Professional wrestling, and 2) That most pretentious wanker of a rock critic ever, Richard Meltzer. It is sacrilege to speak of them in the same breath as the Ramones ;)

By: jonmc

jonmc — Tue, 25 Jan 2005 18:43:46 -0800

JeffL, I'm not a big fan of Metzler, either. But if you can't appreciate the goofball drama of pro wrestling, then perhaps you've missed the point of the Ramones. And, say what you will, the Ramones whole persona was done by these guys first.;)

By: myopicman

myopicman — Tue, 25 Jan 2005 18:47:59 -0800

To me, there's taint as well from recently forcing the musical act Manitoba to change their name to Caribou due to US trademark laws on Handsome Dick's last name. The few Dictators' tunes I've heard sound ok fine, though. But the association remains.

By: JeffL

JeffL — Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:04:09 -0800

Jonmc, I do see your point, I suppose, but I just have a real aversion to pro wrestling. As a big Husker Du fan in the early-to-mid- 80's, I remember being extremely shocked years ago when I read that Bob Mould was into pro wrestling. :) Also, the Dictators might have released their first album a year before the Ramones, but I don't know if they actually formed their band and established their "persona" before the Ramones (or Richard Hell, etc.) Plus, the first Dictators record came out on Epic, instead of the much cooler Sire...

By: JeffL

JeffL — Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:17:02 -0800

According to this punk rock timeline, the Dictators formed in '73. This page lists the first Ramones rehearsal as January 27, 1974 (you gotta love the specificity of that), and doesn't mention the Dictators at all...

By: jonmc

jonmc — Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:21:35 -0800

JeffL, make no mistake, I'm a huge Ramones fan, but recorded evidence (and your timeline) dosen't lie. These guys were pioneers. And stuff like record labels and the copyright thing are interesting, to be sure, but ultimately my judgement on any band is based on whats in the grooves. As for the pro wrestling thing, once you start looking at it as theatre rather than a sport, it becomes a lot more fun.

By: JeffL

JeffL — Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:32:12 -0800

Jonmc, I was just kidding around about the Epic vs. Sire thing, of course. I suppose I'll have to give these guys a listen again, after many years, and re-evaluate.

By: Smart Dalek

Smart Dalek — Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:35:30 -0800

For every phoney little wanna be Careering in the industry Shove some product up your marketing degree cause it ain't rock and roll to me I'm gonna rock we're gonna rock testosterone rock respect the rock

By: rfs

rfs — Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:48:52 -0800

The Dictators were great ! I haven't listened to them in along time, though, as I don't play many records any more - I should buy some CD re-issues. Creem used to have something about them just about every month. To me they had the punk attitude, but their music was more metal than punk - the Ramones were more innovative musically. I always thought the resurgence of punk started with the Stooges and the New York Dolls, though.

By: stavrosthewonderchicken

stavrosthewonderchicken — Tue, 25 Jan 2005 20:19:37 -0800

I always thought the resurgence of punk started with the Stooges and the New York Dolls, though. That'd just be 'the surgence' wouldn't it? Then again, that wouldn't make a whole lot of sense, I guess.

By: j.p. Hung

j.p. Hung — Tue, 25 Jan 2005 20:36:43 -0800

"They're all goin' under the thunda' of MANITOBAAAAAAA!!!!" "I got Jackie Onasis in my pants" ....classic...classic stuff. Great post Jonmc. DICTATORS RULED! Not only were they one of the seminole punk/rock bands of the day but their music actually had some substance to it. That is to say, each song could stand on it's own, each one had an indentity. and rfs, c'mon...the Ramones were more innovative? Big ups on the Dolls and Stooges though!! I understand one or two of the guys from the band bought a bar in the Village.

By: j.p. Hung

j.p. Hung — Tue, 25 Jan 2005 20:49:52 -0800

JeffL, some great links and good points but please....don't mention the Ramones and Dictators in the same breath? (oh hell, I just did it) I'll give the Ramones their due but from a musical standpoint, the Dictators had far more to offer the scene at the time (ah! I did it again). I know it's a tough thing to quantify because there was sometimes a cavernous difference between the bands that influenced the movement and the bands that influenced the players.

By: Armitage Shanks

Armitage Shanks — Tue, 25 Jan 2005 21:05:59 -0800

2) That most pretentious wanker of a rock critic ever, Richard Meltzer. Meltzer's The Aesthetics of Rock is a masterpiece of incomprehensibility. I read the entire thing without once thinking I had any idea what he was on about.

By: bendybendy

bendybendy — Wed, 26 Jan 2005 04:05:44 -0800

One of the Dictators ended up in Twisted Sister, I believe. Which makes sense- they we're really dumb in a smart way, which could easily lead to dumb in a commercial way.

By: pyramid termite

pyramid termite — Wed, 26 Jan 2005 05:03:43 -0800

their version of "i got you babe" isn't to be missed ... their first album is a classic

By: Shane

Shane — Wed, 26 Jan 2005 06:42:44 -0800

The Muffs and the Supersuckers are on my list of favorite concerts. "Fun" is the first word to come to mind.

By: scratch

scratch — Wed, 26 Jan 2005 07:04:56 -0800

Best piano break EVER: the little tinkle in the Dictators' "Teengenerate."

By: stinkycheese

stinkycheese — Wed, 26 Jan 2005 07:09:00 -0800

Played a few shows with them a couple of years ago in Ottawa and Montreal, and I was actually quite surprised how good they still were. Handsome Dick does seem kinda bitter, but overall they were pretty cool. They really don't hold a candle to Da Brothers - but who does? And anyway that's not what this thread is about.

By: rfs

rfs — Wed, 26 Jan 2005 09:12:29 -0800

stavrosthewonderchicken : I said resurgence because to me punk rock originally started with bands like those on Nuggets in the mid 60's. I guess my copy of Nuggets is extra cool because it's the Sire re-issue from about 1976 ...

By: languagehat

languagehat — Wed, 26 Jan 2005 09:56:58 -0800

The Dictators were great, but the Dolls were sublime (no matter how much of a jerkoff Johansen has become since then). Plus they got there first.

By: nanojath

nanojath — Thu, 24 Feb 2005 19:56:13 -0800

ah punk, that fucking anachronism

By: seanyboy

seanyboy — Fri, 25 Feb 2005 03:55:49 -0800

foiled