Negroponte Newsfilter
February 17, 2005 7:25 AM Subscribe
Newsfilter: Bush Nominates Negroponte for intelligence chief. Where did that come from? Should this guy be the one?
Me too. Ah, vintage Wired![/derail]
posted by sourwookie at 7:32 AM on February 17, 2005
posted by sourwookie at 7:32 AM on February 17, 2005
Well I guess someone has to know what's going on since Rumsfeld has offically absolved himself of that responsibility,
posted by fshgrl at 7:34 AM on February 17, 2005
posted by fshgrl at 7:34 AM on February 17, 2005
this nomination is a slap in the face. a big 'fuck you' to all who think intelligence should be firewalled from partisan politics. wiki is good here
posted by jmccw at 7:35 AM on February 17, 2005
posted by jmccw at 7:35 AM on February 17, 2005
Death Squads, funding rebel groups and private mercenaries--Negroponte fits right in.
posted by amberglow at 7:43 AM on February 17, 2005
posted by amberglow at 7:43 AM on February 17, 2005
Bush just wanted another bald head to fondle and kiss.
posted by Tenuki at 7:46 AM on February 17, 2005
posted by Tenuki at 7:46 AM on February 17, 2005
This Negroponte fella is incredibly dirty.
I guess this is where we drop any pretense of being the good guys and basically admit we're becoming Nazi Germany: The Sequel.
posted by AlexReynolds at 7:48 AM on February 17, 2005
I guess this is where we drop any pretense of being the good guys and basically admit we're becoming Nazi Germany: The Sequel.
posted by AlexReynolds at 7:48 AM on February 17, 2005
the Wired guy would have been a much more presentable choice
posted by matteo at 7:56 AM on February 17, 2005
posted by matteo at 7:56 AM on February 17, 2005
"The director's responsibility is straightforward and demanding," Bush said in his announcement.
"John will make sure those whose duty it is to defend America have the information we need to make justify the right decisions our ill-conceived agenda."
posted by three blind mice at 8:08 AM on February 17, 2005
"John will make sure those whose duty it is to defend America have the information we need to
posted by three blind mice at 8:08 AM on February 17, 2005
Hey, it only took seven posts to get to Bush=Hitler!
Negroponte is some bad shit, but come on.
posted by casu marzu at 8:14 AM on February 17, 2005
Negroponte is some bad shit, but come on.
posted by casu marzu at 8:14 AM on February 17, 2005
mateo: As well as one that hadn't previously been convicted.....
posted by Freen at 8:16 AM on February 17, 2005
posted by Freen at 8:16 AM on February 17, 2005
Ah...Big government Bush and all the new Big government Republicans. It's one Big Happy Family!!
Well, Mr. Intelligence Czar, here's some intel for you: They are reporting today that Al Queda may use the Mexican border as a crossing point. Well blow me down! Isn't this intel about 3 and a half years too old? Forgive me but if the best our CIA leader can tell us is that the Iraq War has created a large number of more sophisticated terrorists (duh) and that we need to watch our borders (double duh) more carefully - your in for a long, hard, ride Negroponte. The upside is, your boss never called anyone on the carpet for the largest intelligence failure in history - hack away.
posted by j.p. Hung at 8:16 AM on February 17, 2005
Well, Mr. Intelligence Czar, here's some intel for you: They are reporting today that Al Queda may use the Mexican border as a crossing point. Well blow me down! Isn't this intel about 3 and a half years too old? Forgive me but if the best our CIA leader can tell us is that the Iraq War has created a large number of more sophisticated terrorists (duh) and that we need to watch our borders (double duh) more carefully - your in for a long, hard, ride Negroponte. The upside is, your boss never called anyone on the carpet for the largest intelligence failure in history - hack away.
posted by j.p. Hung at 8:16 AM on February 17, 2005
Hey, if we're going to grab up bad guys all over the world and do with them what we want, while lying to congress and keeping the people in the dark, who's better experienced? He has the right background for the job, no?
posted by ahimsakid at 8:19 AM on February 17, 2005
posted by ahimsakid at 8:19 AM on February 17, 2005
You guys just don't like Negroponte because he is black.
posted by dios at 8:20 AM on February 17, 2005
posted by dios at 8:20 AM on February 17, 2005
Negroponte is some bad shit, but come on.
Yeah, an understudy to Kissinger can't be all that horrible. Only four more years to go, if we manage to live through them without "disappearances".
posted by AlexReynolds at 8:25 AM on February 17, 2005
Yeah, an understudy to Kissinger can't be all that horrible. Only four more years to go, if we manage to live through them without "disappearances".
posted by AlexReynolds at 8:25 AM on February 17, 2005
Hey, it only took seven posts to get to Bush=Hitler!
To be fair, "I guess this is where we drop any pretense of being the good guys and basically admit we're becoming Nazi Germany: The Sequel" isn't Bush=Hitler, it's US=Fascist. There were fascist countries other than Germany, you know, and Hitler didn't work single-handedly in Germany.
Just sayin'.
posted by davejay at 8:52 AM on February 17, 2005
To be fair, "I guess this is where we drop any pretense of being the good guys and basically admit we're becoming Nazi Germany: The Sequel" isn't Bush=Hitler, it's US=Fascist. There were fascist countries other than Germany, you know, and Hitler didn't work single-handedly in Germany.
Just sayin'.
posted by davejay at 8:52 AM on February 17, 2005
His speech to the Heritage Foundation from two years ago gives some clues to his policy & outlook:
posted by dhoyt at 8:58 AM on February 17, 2005
Negroponte rejected the frequently heard argument that terrorism is bred in poverty, "that poverty is its root cause and conveyor belt."
While there are many good and compelling reasons to work to improve the lot of the developing world -- and while the United States is, in fact, doing so -- the linkage with terrorist activity is faulty, he contended.
"The fact is that the man who led al Qaida was fabulously wealthy," and indeed "terrorism as we have known it over the last 40 years has not been a poor man's game," he declared. Nor do people "suddenly lose their moral compass because they are poor," he added.
Negroponte called for continuing, concerted efforts to cut off the terrorists' money supply, because, he said, "without money global terrorism possesses neither wings nor weapons."
In a wide-ranging question-and-answer session, Negroponte was asked how the United States should deal with Syria -- listed by this country as a state sponsor of terrorism, but now also a new member of the U.N. Security Council.
"The short answer to that question would be, 'Carefully'," he said.
posted by dhoyt at 8:58 AM on February 17, 2005
it's US=Fascist
No. Look again. It's US=Nazi Germany. Bush=Hitler is implied pretty directly by that.
Also, if Negroponte=Kissinger, doesn't that actually mean that US today = US 1970? By AlexReynold's reasoning, that doesn't mean that "we're becoming" Nazi Germany, it means we became Nazi Germany at least 35 years ago.
Or, it could mean that Alex simply likes to drag out the Bush=Hitler meme every time Bush wipes his ass. What a drama queen.
posted by casu marzu at 9:07 AM on February 17, 2005
No. Look again. It's US=Nazi Germany. Bush=Hitler is implied pretty directly by that.
Also, if Negroponte=Kissinger, doesn't that actually mean that US today = US 1970? By AlexReynold's reasoning, that doesn't mean that "we're becoming" Nazi Germany, it means we became Nazi Germany at least 35 years ago.
Or, it could mean that Alex simply likes to drag out the Bush=Hitler meme every time Bush wipes his ass. What a drama queen.
posted by casu marzu at 9:07 AM on February 17, 2005
Nor do people "suddenly lose their moral compass because they are poor," he added.
They certainly don't have a lot to lose from fighting a country that they think is out to destroy them.
Cutting funding smacks of the fix-the-symptoms approach on the Drug War. And we all know howprofitablewell that's going.
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:13 AM on February 17, 2005
They certainly don't have a lot to lose from fighting a country that they think is out to destroy them.
Cutting funding smacks of the fix-the-symptoms approach on the Drug War. And we all know how
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:13 AM on February 17, 2005
Boy, Bush sure knows how to pick 'em. Fits right in with his other recent choices.
posted by SisterHavana at 9:16 AM on February 17, 2005
posted by SisterHavana at 9:16 AM on February 17, 2005
Also, if Negroponte=Kissinger, doesn't that actually mean that US today = US 1970? By AlexReynold's reasoning, that doesn't mean that "we're becoming" Nazi Germany, it means we became Nazi Germany at least 35 years ago.
No, it means we can now drop the pretense of being the good guys in the world scenario, if we're putting fascist thugs in charge, just as the Nazis did all those years ago.
Or, it could mean that Alex simply likes to drag out the Bush=Hitler meme every time Bush wipes his ass. What a drama queen.
Bad troll, no donut. Is that how you apologists will finish every response, now? *laughs*
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:17 AM on February 17, 2005
No, it means we can now drop the pretense of being the good guys in the world scenario, if we're putting fascist thugs in charge, just as the Nazis did all those years ago.
Or, it could mean that Alex simply likes to drag out the Bush=Hitler meme every time Bush wipes his ass. What a drama queen.
Bad troll, no donut. Is that how you apologists will finish every response, now? *laughs*
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:17 AM on February 17, 2005
Fits right in with his other recent choices.
posted by SisterHavana at 9:16 AM PST on February 17
Because the choice fits with Bush's vision and not Metafilter/Democrats? One might suspect that a person who won the presidency with a mandate would place people that agree with him positions instead of the rejected the losers his opponents.
/glaring glimpse of the obvious
posted by dios at 9:22 AM on February 17, 2005
posted by SisterHavana at 9:16 AM PST on February 17
Because the choice fits with Bush's vision and not Metafilter/Democrats? One might suspect that a person who won the presidency with a mandate would place people that agree with him positions instead of
/glaring glimpse of the obvious
posted by dios at 9:22 AM on February 17, 2005
Alex, since you are asserting that the US has become "the bag guys" in the same vein as Nazi Germany, perhaps you might limit your usage of the work "troll" unless you are self-applying it.
posted by dios at 9:23 AM on February 17, 2005
posted by dios at 9:23 AM on February 17, 2005
One might suspect that a person who won the presidency with a mandate...
51% is now a mandate? That's a mandate as thin as gossamer. /returns glare of obviousness
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:25 AM on February 17, 2005
51% is now a mandate? That's a mandate as thin as gossamer. /returns glare of obviousness
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:25 AM on February 17, 2005
Ooh! First I'm a neocon, now I'm an apologist. Also note that I'm an apologist, even though I strongly dislike the Bush administration, simply because I disagree with the Bush=Hitler and US=Nazi chickenlittle bullshit.
Nice try, honey, but that's the wrong answer. Thanks for playing.
posted by casu marzu at 9:26 AM on February 17, 2005
Nice try, honey, but that's the wrong answer. Thanks for playing.
posted by casu marzu at 9:26 AM on February 17, 2005
Alex, since you are asserting that the US has become "the bag guys" in the same vein as Nazi Germany, perhaps you might limit your usage of the work "troll" unless you are self-applying it.
I wouldn't suggest these similarities, if they weren't so blatant and atrocious.
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:26 AM on February 17, 2005
I wouldn't suggest these similarities, if they weren't so blatant and atrocious.
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:26 AM on February 17, 2005
Nice try, honey, but that's the wrong answer. Thanks for playing.
So when was the last time I said that Bush=Hitler? I don't think I've ever mentioned it before, to be honest. Please feel free to cite an example, "honey."
Can't do it? Wrong answer. Thanks for playing.
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:29 AM on February 17, 2005
So when was the last time I said that Bush=Hitler? I don't think I've ever mentioned it before, to be honest. Please feel free to cite an example, "honey."
Can't do it? Wrong answer. Thanks for playing.
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:29 AM on February 17, 2005
It's a mandate all the same. Bush is the first majority president since Reagan, right? Bush's coattails allowed his party to pick up seats in the Senate, House and governerships, right? The leader of the opposition lost his seat. Maybe you want to argue its a small mandate, but I think it is fairly clear that the majority of voting people supported a particular direction. That is the definition of a mandate.
But really, is your argument going to be that the Republicans didn't really win big? Are you going to argue that the strong showing of the democrats entitles them to make Bush select their people to be in important positions?
posted by dios at 9:30 AM on February 17, 2005
But really, is your argument going to be that the Republicans didn't really win big? Are you going to argue that the strong showing of the democrats entitles them to make Bush select their people to be in important positions?
posted by dios at 9:30 AM on February 17, 2005
I'll give you guys a dollar if you stop arguing. Please?
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:37 AM on February 17, 2005
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:37 AM on February 17, 2005
BTW, John and Nicholas Negroponte are brothers.
Robocop, I think you've hit upon a new feature MeFi needs.
Say, has anyone seen my moral compass? I know I left it around here somewheres...
posted by Cassford at 9:39 AM on February 17, 2005
Robocop, I think you've hit upon a new feature MeFi needs.
Say, has anyone seen my moral compass? I know I left it around here somewheres...
posted by Cassford at 9:39 AM on February 17, 2005
But really, is your argument going to be that the Republicans didn't really win big? Are you going to argue that the strong showing of the democrats entitles them to make Bush select their people to be in important positions?
One percent of voting Americans makes a plurality but not a mandate. A mandate is stronger than that. I definitely don't call one percent "winning big," whatever that means.
Certainly, it would be reasonable to expect leaders who received such an amazingly slim majority to behave in a way somewhat respectful to the wishes and expectations of not-insignificant 49% of the rest of the electorate.
I do not believe putting someone like Negroponte into a position of power to be a positive representation of the will of the people as a whole. I suspect, but will not claim, that others who are familiar with Mr. Negroponte and his activities over the decades will agree to varying degrees.
I believe that it, along with other factual activities of this administration, taken in whole, is remarkably congruent in some significant respects with the path taken by late 1920s Germany towards fascist rule. As a recently naturalized American citizen, this concerns me a great deal.
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:41 AM on February 17, 2005
One percent of voting Americans makes a plurality but not a mandate. A mandate is stronger than that. I definitely don't call one percent "winning big," whatever that means.
Certainly, it would be reasonable to expect leaders who received such an amazingly slim majority to behave in a way somewhat respectful to the wishes and expectations of not-insignificant 49% of the rest of the electorate.
I do not believe putting someone like Negroponte into a position of power to be a positive representation of the will of the people as a whole. I suspect, but will not claim, that others who are familiar with Mr. Negroponte and his activities over the decades will agree to varying degrees.
I believe that it, along with other factual activities of this administration, taken in whole, is remarkably congruent in some significant respects with the path taken by late 1920s Germany towards fascist rule. As a recently naturalized American citizen, this concerns me a great deal.
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:41 AM on February 17, 2005
To term a simple majority a mandate is, I think to, devalue the meaning of the word. Despite gains in the Congress, Bush's margin of victory was anemic, if you compare that to previous incumbent victories. Reagan and FDR were re-elected with 60% of the vote, to draw a contrast.
Typically, a mandate in a general election is when the winner receives 55% or more of the vote, but there is also an important contextual claim. It is when the winning candidate with that margin of victory has run a platform of fundamental shift in policy. This clearest example of this was in 1932.
posted by psmealey at 9:43 AM on February 17, 2005
Typically, a mandate in a general election is when the winner receives 55% or more of the vote, but there is also an important contextual claim. It is when the winning candidate with that margin of victory has run a platform of fundamental shift in policy. This clearest example of this was in 1932.
posted by psmealey at 9:43 AM on February 17, 2005
dios, give me a break, you're completely diverting from the issue. The election has nothing to do with this.
Because the choice fits with Bush's vision and not Metafilter/Democrats?
That's a ridiculous statement. It's not about whether he fits with "Bush's vision" instead of some theoretical, diametrically opposed "Democrat vision," it's the fact that this guy has quite the sordid past.
Unless you're trying to argue that Bush's vision = torture, human rights violations, and ends justifying the means, while the Democratic vision = humanitarianism and nominating capable, trustworthy people, but then it seems you'd be agreeing with AlexReynolds.
posted by ludwig_van at 9:44 AM on February 17, 2005
Because the choice fits with Bush's vision and not Metafilter/Democrats?
That's a ridiculous statement. It's not about whether he fits with "Bush's vision" instead of some theoretical, diametrically opposed "Democrat vision," it's the fact that this guy has quite the sordid past.
Unless you're trying to argue that Bush's vision = torture, human rights violations, and ends justifying the means, while the Democratic vision = humanitarianism and nominating capable, trustworthy people, but then it seems you'd be agreeing with AlexReynolds.
posted by ludwig_van at 9:44 AM on February 17, 2005
"I believe that it, along with other factual activities of this administration, taken in whole, is remarkably congruent in some significant respects with the path taken by late 1920s Germany towards fascist rule. As a recently naturalized American citizen, this concerns me a great deal."
I was wondering where all my Jewish friends went.
posted by koeselitz at 9:47 AM on February 17, 2005
I was wondering where all my Jewish friends went.
posted by koeselitz at 9:47 AM on February 17, 2005
I think it is fairly clear that the majority of voting people supported a particular direction.
I thought it meant they didn't want to watch Kerry bumble and mutter for the next four years, and, of course, the gays. Even if they did support Bush's less publicized appointments, does that make it right? I'm sure someone knows better than me, but I think popularity isn't a measure on the moral scale.
posted by underer at 9:51 AM on February 17, 2005
I thought it meant they didn't want to watch Kerry bumble and mutter for the next four years, and, of course, the gays. Even if they did support Bush's less publicized appointments, does that make it right? I'm sure someone knows better than me, but I think popularity isn't a measure on the moral scale.
posted by underer at 9:51 AM on February 17, 2005
You guys just don't like Negroponte because he is black.
you've posted some stuff here that has made me want to give you a swift kick, but i gotta say that made me laugh loud enough to attract attention here at work.
good one.
posted by lord_wolf at 9:54 AM on February 17, 2005
you've posted some stuff here that has made me want to give you a swift kick, but i gotta say that made me laugh loud enough to attract attention here at work.
good one.
posted by lord_wolf at 9:54 AM on February 17, 2005
I was wondering where all my Jewish friends went.
Firstly, Jewish people didn't disappear until the following two decades.
Secondly, read up on Fascism and consider replacing your contextual use of "Jewish" with "Muslim" or "GLBT" people.
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:54 AM on February 17, 2005
Firstly, Jewish people didn't disappear until the following two decades.
Secondly, read up on Fascism and consider replacing your contextual use of "Jewish" with "Muslim" or "GLBT" people.
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:54 AM on February 17, 2005
Or any other convenient target, for that matter.
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:54 AM on February 17, 2005
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:54 AM on February 17, 2005
a person who won the presidency with a mandate
dios is trolling again!
posted by quonsar at 9:56 AM on February 17, 2005
dios is trolling again!
posted by quonsar at 9:56 AM on February 17, 2005
If you like cultural elites then you will love Negrepointe
Because the elites of Honduras and Guatamala love this guy
for helping them get rid of undesirables,and tradeunionists land reformers and the like. for anyone here who has doubts about the Bush family involvment with facistic orgs. lookhere for a start
posted by hortense at 9:57 AM on February 17, 2005
Because the elites of Honduras and Guatamala love this guy
for helping them get rid of undesirables,and tradeunionists land reformers and the like. for anyone here who has doubts about the Bush family involvment with facistic orgs. lookhere for a start
posted by hortense at 9:57 AM on February 17, 2005
Wow, Bush is really off and running, doing whatever he wants now huh? Thanks for re-electing him all you worthless conservative bible-thumpers down south. I'm just glad I'm living in a Blue state, if only we can make it another 4 years....
posted by MmmKlunk at 9:58 AM on February 17, 2005
posted by MmmKlunk at 9:58 AM on February 17, 2005
I thought a young boy sleeping over at Michael Jackson's place was having a Man Date?
posted by Postroad at 10:01 AM on February 17, 2005
posted by Postroad at 10:01 AM on February 17, 2005
Bah, I wasn't suggesting that the guy was good or bad. Hell, he could be a scumbag for all I know. And to be honest, I don't really care. if you pressed me, I might admit that I like the fact he is controversial if only for the reason to watch people blow up in histrionics like Alex Reynolds.
So, I really make no judgment as the moral propriety of the appointment. What I was commenting on was a specific suggestion that there is something incongruous with regards to Bush appointing people who were all alike. Well, that is what the winner does. To the victor goes the spoils.
I really don't care to get bogged down in an argument over the minutia of mandates, but I would suggest that by definition, a majority is a mandate. And I can guarantee that if Kerry would have won by "this slim 1% majority" that no one here would be saying that Kerry should appoint Republicans to his cabinet. It would have been trumpeted as a mandate to get rid of all the bogeymen. And I wouldn't have disagreed. But to take this posture that Bush somehow owes it to the losers to appoint people friendly to their side instead of his own strikes me as silly loser begging
posted by dios at 10:02 AM on February 17, 2005
So, I really make no judgment as the moral propriety of the appointment. What I was commenting on was a specific suggestion that there is something incongruous with regards to Bush appointing people who were all alike. Well, that is what the winner does. To the victor goes the spoils.
I really don't care to get bogged down in an argument over the minutia of mandates, but I would suggest that by definition, a majority is a mandate. And I can guarantee that if Kerry would have won by "this slim 1% majority" that no one here would be saying that Kerry should appoint Republicans to his cabinet. It would have been trumpeted as a mandate to get rid of all the bogeymen. And I wouldn't have disagreed. But to take this posture that Bush somehow owes it to the losers to appoint people friendly to their side instead of his own strikes me as silly loser begging
posted by dios at 10:02 AM on February 17, 2005
If getting elected president means you can do whatever the hell you want, including the promotion of someone who knowingly condoned murder and torture, why the hell was Clinton getting blown such a big deal?
He had a mandate, goddamit! America wants him to receive head! Dios, why do you hate America so much?
posted by bardic at 10:03 AM on February 17, 2005
He had a mandate, goddamit! America wants him to receive head! Dios, why do you hate America so much?
posted by bardic at 10:03 AM on February 17, 2005
blow up in histrionics like Alex Reynolds
I suppose this is your definition of histrionics.
posted by AlexReynolds at 10:06 AM on February 17, 2005
I suppose this is your definition of histrionics.
posted by AlexReynolds at 10:06 AM on February 17, 2005
bardic, Clinton never got the majority of votes, so he never had a mandate by definition. And he was impeached for perjuring himself not for getting blown. I'm sure there are links and stuff on the internet that can refresh your memory of the not-so-distant past.
Dios, why do you hate America so much?
posted by bardic at 10:03 AM PST on February 17
Because it won't guarantee that whatever screwed up things I want to engage in are all deemed perfectly acceptable, and because it won't take care of me financially as I slack off.
posted by dios at 10:06 AM on February 17, 2005
Dios, why do you hate America so much?
posted by bardic at 10:03 AM PST on February 17
Because it won't guarantee that whatever screwed up things I want to engage in are all deemed perfectly acceptable, and because it won't take care of me financially as I slack off.
posted by dios at 10:06 AM on February 17, 2005
But to take this posture that Bush somehow owes it to the losers to appoint people friendly to their side instead of his own strikes me as silly loser begging[sic]
No one is taking that argument.
posted by AlexReynolds at 10:10 AM on February 17, 2005
No one is taking that argument.
posted by AlexReynolds at 10:10 AM on February 17, 2005
Dios-
Are you really saying that you don't have any interest in this guy's past, and the possibility of some nasty shit happening in the future, other than the effect it may have on AR? Come on, I thought you at least had some political beliefs. This is really childish.
posted by underer at 10:11 AM on February 17, 2005
Are you really saying that you don't have any interest in this guy's past, and the possibility of some nasty shit happening in the future, other than the effect it may have on AR? Come on, I thought you at least had some political beliefs. This is really childish.
posted by underer at 10:11 AM on February 17, 2005
if you pressed me, I might admit that I like the fact he is controversial if only for the reason to watch people blow up in histrionics like Alex Reynolds.
Which would make you a troll and a nuisance. Way to go.
What I was commenting on was a specific suggestion that there is something incongruous with regards to Bush appointing people who were all alike.
There are different ways to be alike. The problem is when they're all alike in things like incompetence, or records of human rights violations. Hence your response completely sidestepped the issue, as you're continuing to do.
And I can guarantee that if Kerry would have won by "this slim 1% majority" that no one here would be saying that Kerry should appoint Republicans to his cabinet.
Please realize that this is a total strawman.
posted by ludwig_van at 10:11 AM on February 17, 2005
Which would make you a troll and a nuisance. Way to go.
What I was commenting on was a specific suggestion that there is something incongruous with regards to Bush appointing people who were all alike.
There are different ways to be alike. The problem is when they're all alike in things like incompetence, or records of human rights violations. Hence your response completely sidestepped the issue, as you're continuing to do.
And I can guarantee that if Kerry would have won by "this slim 1% majority" that no one here would be saying that Kerry should appoint Republicans to his cabinet.
Please realize that this is a total strawman.
posted by ludwig_van at 10:11 AM on February 17, 2005
Alex: histrionics means your queen schtick that Bush's appointment somehow makes us Nazi Germany. The chicken little "end is nigh" "the GLBT people are teh new Joos" ramblings are histrionics.
posted by dios at 10:11 AM on February 17, 2005
posted by dios at 10:11 AM on February 17, 2005
Here's something creepy -- Clinton named Negroponte for his post in the Philippines in 1993 (long after his Honduran escapades) and the Senate unanimously confirmed his nomination. Some argue that it was during his tenure in the Philippines that questions regarding his human rights record in Honduras came to light, but that sounds like b.s..
I predict he will sail through again.
posted by Cassford at 10:14 AM on February 17, 2005
I predict he will sail through again.
posted by Cassford at 10:14 AM on February 17, 2005
Alex: histrionics means your queen schtick that Bush's appointment somehow makes us Nazi Germany. The chicken little "end is nigh" "the GLBT people are teh new Joos" ramblings are histrionics.
He said:
"I guess this is where we drop any pretense of being the good guys and basically admit we're becoming Nazi Germany: The Sequel."
Considering Negroponte's record, this is not a statement without merit. He didn't say we are Nazi Germany, he said this is the kind of thing which brings us closer to becoming them. Perhaps he could've worded his post better if he knew it would be intentionally misread by people looking to derail and troll.
dios, you're not adding anything to the discussion, you have every appearance of being intellectually dishonest, and are being an all around pain in the ass. Please try to control yourself.
posted by ludwig_van at 10:18 AM on February 17, 2005
He said:
"I guess this is where we drop any pretense of being the good guys and basically admit we're becoming Nazi Germany: The Sequel."
Considering Negroponte's record, this is not a statement without merit. He didn't say we are Nazi Germany, he said this is the kind of thing which brings us closer to becoming them. Perhaps he could've worded his post better if he knew it would be intentionally misread by people looking to derail and troll.
dios, you're not adding anything to the discussion, you have every appearance of being intellectually dishonest, and are being an all around pain in the ass. Please try to control yourself.
posted by ludwig_van at 10:18 AM on February 17, 2005
Alex: histrionics means your queen schtick that Bush's appointment somehow makes us Nazi Germany. The chicken little "end is nigh" "the GLBT people are teh new Joos" ramblings are histrionics.
Your personal dislike of me aside, you did not address the many strawmen you have created in your own image.
Looking at your posting history, none of this is surprising: you're basically trolling. Good luck.
posted by AlexReynolds at 10:19 AM on February 17, 2005
Your personal dislike of me aside, you did not address the many strawmen you have created in your own image.
Looking at your posting history, none of this is surprising: you're basically trolling. Good luck.
posted by AlexReynolds at 10:19 AM on February 17, 2005
I believe that it, along with other factual activities of this administration, taken in whole, is remarkably congruent in some significant respects with the path taken by late 1920s Germany towards fascist rule.
In light of this new information, Alex, I apologize. I see now that you were saying Bush=Hindenburg.
posted by casu marzu at 10:20 AM on February 17, 2005
In light of this new information, Alex, I apologize. I see now that you were saying Bush=Hindenburg.
posted by casu marzu at 10:20 AM on February 17, 2005
And I can guarantee that if Kerry would have won by "this slim 1% majority" that no one here would be saying that Kerry should appoint Republicans to his cabinet.
Is anyone here saying Bush should appoint Democrats to his cabinet?
Personally, I'd settle for a Republican less obviously evil than John Negroponte being appointed to one of the most powerful jobs in the U.S. Government. How about John Poindexter? Oh, wait...
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 10:21 AM on February 17, 2005
Is anyone here saying Bush should appoint Democrats to his cabinet?
Personally, I'd settle for a Republican less obviously evil than John Negroponte being appointed to one of the most powerful jobs in the U.S. Government. How about John Poindexter? Oh, wait...
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 10:21 AM on February 17, 2005
Since when did calling people on silly statements or disagreeing with someone become ipse dixit trolling? I suppose you were adding to the discussion with your Godwin statements? If you can't defend your weak arguements, don't label the person calling you on them a troll merely because they disagree with you.
posted by dios at 10:25 AM on February 17, 2005
posted by dios at 10:25 AM on February 17, 2005
I really don't care to get bogged down in an argument over the minutia of mandates, but I would suggest that by definition, a majority is a mandate.
Hilarious. I don't feel like listening to anyone else, so I'll just use my own personal definitions.
posted by psmealey at 10:32 AM on February 17, 2005
Hilarious. I don't feel like listening to anyone else, so I'll just use my own personal definitions.
posted by psmealey at 10:32 AM on February 17, 2005
psmealey, that isn't my definition. It is the dictionary's.
posted by dios at 10:34 AM on February 17, 2005
posted by dios at 10:34 AM on February 17, 2005
I think maybe we should make dios and AlexReynolds go on a "man-date."
posted by koeselitz at 10:36 AM on February 17, 2005
posted by koeselitz at 10:36 AM on February 17, 2005
man·date
n.
1. An authoritative command or instruction.
2. A command or an authorization given by a political electorate to its representative.
3.
1. A commission from the League of Nations authorizing a member nation to administer a territory.
2. A region under such administration.
4. Law.
1. An order issued by a superior court or an official to a lower court.
2. A contract by which one party agrees to perform services for another without payment.
posted by ludwig_van at 10:38 AM on February 17, 2005
n.
1. An authoritative command or instruction.
2. A command or an authorization given by a political electorate to its representative.
3.
1. A commission from the League of Nations authorizing a member nation to administer a territory.
2. A region under such administration.
4. Law.
1. An order issued by a superior court or an official to a lower court.
2. A contract by which one party agrees to perform services for another without payment.
posted by ludwig_van at 10:38 AM on February 17, 2005
From wordreference.com:
mandate: the commission that is given to a government and its policies through an electoral victory
posted by unreason at 10:40 AM on February 17, 2005
mandate: the commission that is given to a government and its policies through an electoral victory
posted by unreason at 10:40 AM on February 17, 2005
if paris looked into a mirror, would he see dios?
posted by lord_wolf at 10:40 AM on February 17, 2005
posted by lord_wolf at 10:40 AM on February 17, 2005
Dios: It's trolling because all you do is make stupid statements and straw men in an attempt to derail threads about things you don't like discussing.
Like how John Negroponte really isn't the kind of guy you want running anything. And the fact the this administration has a long history of hiring people with similarly horrendous histories to powerful positions.
You don't like talking about it, so you want to talk about one relatively unimportant person (Sorry Alex, You just don't have a cabinet position at present) has to say about, as opposed to what is actually happening. That's called a red herring, a diversion. Lets talk about how people are talking about this, instead of what actually going on. I suspect this is because you can't really say anything on the issue itself. I've seen you perform in a similar manner elsewhere, but I don't want to waste the effort trying to find comments to site on such a feeble troll as yourself.
posted by Freen at 10:42 AM on February 17, 2005
Like how John Negroponte really isn't the kind of guy you want running anything. And the fact the this administration has a long history of hiring people with similarly horrendous histories to powerful positions.
You don't like talking about it, so you want to talk about one relatively unimportant person (Sorry Alex, You just don't have a cabinet position at present) has to say about, as opposed to what is actually happening. That's called a red herring, a diversion. Lets talk about how people are talking about this, instead of what actually going on. I suspect this is because you can't really say anything on the issue itself. I've seen you perform in a similar manner elsewhere, but I don't want to waste the effort trying to find comments to site on such a feeble troll as yourself.
posted by Freen at 10:42 AM on February 17, 2005
if paris looked into a mirror, would he see dios?
Would this be a normal mirror, or a Star Trek esque mirror where you see an evil version of yourself? If so, who's on the evil side? Paris or Dios?
posted by unreason at 10:44 AM on February 17, 2005
Would this be a normal mirror, or a Star Trek esque mirror where you see an evil version of yourself? If so, who's on the evil side? Paris or Dios?
posted by unreason at 10:44 AM on February 17, 2005
Had Kerry won on that same thin margin, I'd have expected him to appoint Democrats, but ones that weren't too blatantly offensive to the majority of Republicans. Had he won with, say, a 60% margin, I'd expect him to bring in people they really hated.
That's one thing that really bugs me about current conservatives...they seem to have zero respect for those who disagree. Or for the truth, for that matter. They lie. They torture. They sacrifice kids to cover up that torture. Then they fight US torture victims in court to make sure they can't recover any damages.
And somehow these folks look in the mirror and think they're doing God's work.
Sorry for the segue, just unhappy about yet another torturer in the US government.
posted by Malor at 10:46 AM on February 17, 2005
That's one thing that really bugs me about current conservatives...they seem to have zero respect for those who disagree. Or for the truth, for that matter. They lie. They torture. They sacrifice kids to cover up that torture. Then they fight US torture victims in court to make sure they can't recover any damages.
And somehow these folks look in the mirror and think they're doing God's work.
Sorry for the segue, just unhappy about yet another torturer in the US government.
posted by Malor at 10:46 AM on February 17, 2005
5. A meeting of two men for romatic or friendly purposes.
posted by shawnj at 10:47 AM on February 17, 2005
posted by shawnj at 10:47 AM on February 17, 2005
Also, It was Poindexter and Elliott Abrams who were convicted and then given a prominent positions, not Negroponte.... Sorry about that mistake.
Oddly enough, Abrams is now in charge of “democracy, human rights and international operations” for the NSC.
Whee!!!
posted by Freen at 10:52 AM on February 17, 2005
Oddly enough, Abrams is now in charge of “democracy, human rights and international operations” for the NSC.
Whee!!!
posted by Freen at 10:52 AM on February 17, 2005
When he was appointed Ambassador to Iraq, the Washington Post wrote an excellent profile that goes beyond easy stereotypes and demonization.
"First, about Honduras, the people who are critical, well, 99 percent of them don't even know me personally. Or maybe 95 percent. Secondly, I was there when we had a helping hand in transition from military government to a civilian government. It happened on my watch. And they've had elected governments ever since. I look back on Honduras with pride. I have five adopted Honduran children. I can't think of any better example of my love for that country."
It's worth reading for a more complete picture of the man.
posted by extrabox at 10:52 AM on February 17, 2005
"First, about Honduras, the people who are critical, well, 99 percent of them don't even know me personally. Or maybe 95 percent. Secondly, I was there when we had a helping hand in transition from military government to a civilian government. It happened on my watch. And they've had elected governments ever since. I look back on Honduras with pride. I have five adopted Honduran children. I can't think of any better example of my love for that country."
It's worth reading for a more complete picture of the man.
posted by extrabox at 10:52 AM on February 17, 2005
51% is now a mandate?
well, it's better than 5-4. baby steps, you know. maybe Jebby will eventually get a real one in 2012. or maybe that'll be Jenna later on.
posted by matteo at 11:13 AM on February 17, 2005
well, it's better than 5-4. baby steps, you know. maybe Jebby will eventually get a real one in 2012. or maybe that'll be Jenna later on.
posted by matteo at 11:13 AM on February 17, 2005
thanks, extrabox. Say, where'd they get that other fellow: "[H]e is a rogue, a jackanape, a bounder of the worst type."
posted by Cassford at 11:14 AM on February 17, 2005
posted by Cassford at 11:14 AM on February 17, 2005
"To this day," he said, "I do not believe that death squads were operating in Honduras."
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:15 AM on February 17, 2005
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:15 AM on February 17, 2005
A jackanape for god's sake?! That's the worst they can come up with? I would love to be called a jackanape. Just once!
posted by extrabox at 11:33 AM on February 17, 2005
posted by extrabox at 11:33 AM on February 17, 2005
Like how John Negroponte really isn't the kind of guy you want running anything. And the fact the this administration has a long history of hiring people with similarly horrendous histories to powerful positions.
Thank you, Freen. That's exactly the point I was trying to make. It had nothing to do with whether he's a Democrat or Republican.
posted by SisterHavana at 12:00 PM on February 17, 2005
Thank you, Freen. That's exactly the point I was trying to make. It had nothing to do with whether he's a Democrat or Republican.
posted by SisterHavana at 12:00 PM on February 17, 2005
you already got the M-W link, but don't forget, it's jackanapes, singular, from Jack Napis.
i had a site on jackanapes.com back in the 90s.
and thanks for the link. here's David Corn's take (nothing new, mostly reprinted from his 2004 confirmation).
posted by mrgrimm at 12:03 PM on February 17, 2005
i had a site on jackanapes.com back in the 90s.
and thanks for the link. here's David Corn's take (nothing new, mostly reprinted from his 2004 confirmation).
posted by mrgrimm at 12:03 PM on February 17, 2005
I don't understand how anyone can be surprised by this appointment. This is the type of administration that values loyalty and friendship over having a history of competence. Kissinger on the 9/11 Commission, Poindexter in the Pentagon, etc. When you have a short list of friends and collegues that you've worked closely with in the past, there's only so many people to appoint.
posted by Arch Stanton at 12:18 PM on February 17, 2005
posted by Arch Stanton at 12:18 PM on February 17, 2005
From the MeTa thread: He has the right to appoint "yes" men as he was the victor with a mandate. Why should he appoint "no" men? You may not think that is a valid argument, but who gives you the right to label me a troll because you think my argument is weak?
Negroponte is not one of the yes men, he is one of the appointees with disturbing lapses in his background. You haven't explained these away. As for appointing yes men, that is his prerogative, but I would rather have someone like Rummy who speaks his mind, than a yeas man. Oh, and I never called you a troll.
posted by caddis at 1:23 PM on February 17, 2005
Negroponte is not one of the yes men, he is one of the appointees with disturbing lapses in his background. You haven't explained these away. As for appointing yes men, that is his prerogative, but I would rather have someone like Rummy who speaks his mind, than a yeas man. Oh, and I never called you a troll.
posted by caddis at 1:23 PM on February 17, 2005
Negroponte is not one of the yes men, he is one of the appointees with disturbing lapses in his background.
Are you arguing that he's one of the guys who hasn't been well vetted? The administration does seem to have a problem with the concept of a thorough background check. But if that's the issue, people will find out and the appointment will sink of its own accord, assuming the lapses are serious enough.
posted by anapestic at 2:22 PM on February 17, 2005
Are you arguing that he's one of the guys who hasn't been well vetted? The administration does seem to have a problem with the concept of a thorough background check. But if that's the issue, people will find out and the appointment will sink of its own accord, assuming the lapses are serious enough.
posted by anapestic at 2:22 PM on February 17, 2005
Indeed, Negroponte is not one of the yes men.
Someone had to do it.
posted by palancik at 2:36 PM on February 17, 2005
Someone had to do it.
posted by palancik at 2:36 PM on February 17, 2005
Bush just wanted another bald head to fondle and kiss.
tenuki, that made me laugh so hard. thank you. because with news like this, you need a good laugh.
posted by blendor at 2:51 PM on February 17, 2005
tenuki, that made me laugh so hard. thank you. because with news like this, you need a good laugh.
posted by blendor at 2:51 PM on February 17, 2005
anapestic: "The administration does seem to have a problem with the concept of a thorough background check."
Thats a bit of an understatement....
posted by Freen at 3:00 PM on February 17, 2005
Thats a bit of an understatement....
posted by Freen at 3:00 PM on February 17, 2005
Well, I just watched an interesting discussion on the News Hour in which Negroponte was resoundingly praised, by conservatives and liberals alike. They praised his skill as a diplomat, a good skill for this job in particular, and his knowledge of the intelligence community as well as the fact that he is an outsider, technically, to that community. Even Harry Reid liked him. So, perhaps Negroponte is the right man for the job, despite certain dark issues in his background. I remain open on the issue and need to do some more research to say whether he is the right or wrong man.
posted by caddis at 3:33 PM on February 17, 2005
posted by caddis at 3:33 PM on February 17, 2005
Yes, let's do some more research to say whether he is the right or wrong man.
posted by gsb at 3:45 PM on February 17, 2005
posted by gsb at 3:45 PM on February 17, 2005
Hey. Wait a minute. I'll comment on this when I get home.
posted by ParisParamus at 3:51 PM on February 17, 2005
posted by ParisParamus at 3:51 PM on February 17, 2005
But to take this posture that Bush somehow owes it to the losers to appoint people friendly to their side instead of his own strikes me as silly loser begging[sic]
Well, when you win by a narrow margin, you rule by a narrow margin, and historically, non-partisanship was one way of ensuring cooperation from the other side of the aisle when it came time to advance your policies. The two-party system is supposed to have more give-and-take than it does right now. The "losers" don't just sit down for 4 years and stop participating. "Losers" is hardly the word. There's a majority and a minority. And contrary to popular belief, democracy wasn't invented to ensure "majority rule," it was invented to protect the minority from the mob.
Your posture strikes me as childish majority overconfidence.
posted by scarabic at 3:57 PM on February 17, 2005
Well, when you win by a narrow margin, you rule by a narrow margin, and historically, non-partisanship was one way of ensuring cooperation from the other side of the aisle when it came time to advance your policies. The two-party system is supposed to have more give-and-take than it does right now. The "losers" don't just sit down for 4 years and stop participating. "Losers" is hardly the word. There's a majority and a minority. And contrary to popular belief, democracy wasn't invented to ensure "majority rule," it was invented to protect the minority from the mob.
Your posture strikes me as childish majority overconfidence.
posted by scarabic at 3:57 PM on February 17, 2005
They praised his skill as a diplomat, a good skill for this job in particular, and his knowledge of the intelligence community as well as the fact that he is an outsider, technically, to that community....
posted by gsb at 6:45 PM EST on February 17
Umm, knowledge of the intelligence community does not equate to actual experience within it. Unless of course that "technically" part is referring to any corroboration he did, or um, didn't do, with the CIA in Honduras.
posted by x_3mta3 at 4:26 PM on February 17, 2005
posted by gsb at 6:45 PM EST on February 17
Umm, knowledge of the intelligence community does not equate to actual experience within it. Unless of course that "technically" part is referring to any corroboration he did, or um, didn't do, with the CIA in Honduras.
posted by x_3mta3 at 4:26 PM on February 17, 2005
Oh and just because people like you, doesn't mean you're right for the job either. Tons of people in Germany loved Hitler, and look how that turned out.
Note: I'm not comparing the two, just highlighting my point, but you're smart enough to realize that, right?
posted by x_3mta3 at 4:29 PM on February 17, 2005
Note: I'm not comparing the two, just highlighting my point, but you're smart enough to realize that, right?
posted by x_3mta3 at 4:29 PM on February 17, 2005
He's good at hiding stuff. He's a good choice for overseeing budgets....if, y'know, you don't want to show those budgets to congress.
Plenty of guys in Hondo though said there were death squads.
Still, a guy in that position, you need an asshole.
Not saying it's right, but as an example, every executive officer I've ever seen has been a total dick.
Part of the job.
Perhaps in private he's very kind to children and puppies.
Seems to me you'd have to change the administration to get this guy out.
posted by Smedleyman at 4:49 PM on February 17, 2005
Plenty of guys in Hondo though said there were death squads.
Still, a guy in that position, you need an asshole.
Not saying it's right, but as an example, every executive officer I've ever seen has been a total dick.
Part of the job.
Perhaps in private he's very kind to children and puppies.
Seems to me you'd have to change the administration to get this guy out.
posted by Smedleyman at 4:49 PM on February 17, 2005
Let's be honest here about the so called mandate. Bush won with a razor slim margin, to be sure. However, the GOP kicked the Democrats ass in this election. They now control all three branches of government, plus most of the governorships and the tide is not in the Dem's favor. Many of the Southern Dems now in Congress and the Senate are long termers. They will be replaced by Republicans when they retire if things do not change. This may not be a traditional "mandate" as it relates to Bush himself, but it sure seems to be for the right. I am glad that Howard Dean has taken over the DNC. He brings life and vitality to a struggling party. Dems have been coasting on the Southern Dems well after Johnson's New Deal killed that part of the party. Wake up! If we want to fight the new fascist-lite movement that the right has built we need to get motivated and get organized.
posted by caddis at 5:26 PM on February 17, 2005
posted by caddis at 5:26 PM on February 17, 2005
You're right, caddis. Ironically, the only thing holding back the Republicans is what a poor candidate GWB actually is. Imagine how much more ass they'd be kicking if their well-oiled machine were being driven by one of the higher primates.
posted by scarabic at 6:24 PM on February 17, 2005
posted by scarabic at 6:24 PM on February 17, 2005
The two-party system is supposed to have more give-and-take than it does right now. The "losers" don't just sit down for 4 years and stop participating. "Losers" is hardly the word. There's a majority and a minority.
That's a very good point.
posted by ludwig_van at 8:22 PM on February 17, 2005
That's a very good point.
posted by ludwig_van at 8:22 PM on February 17, 2005
You mean the civil rights era?
Oye vay, no, I meant the "Great Society." I was only off by a generation or two, sorry.
posted by caddis at 8:56 PM on February 17, 2005
Oye vay, no, I meant the "Great Society." I was only off by a generation or two, sorry.
posted by caddis at 8:56 PM on February 17, 2005
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posted by gen at 7:29 AM on February 17, 2005