October 31, 2000

11:25 PM

Bill clinton hangs out with Esquire
The cover of the new Esquire had all the right-wing goofballs up in arms on Politically Incorrect tonight. Personally I don't see anything wrong with it, but then I am not want to spend $60 million looking for something dirty in everything the President does.

Where can I get this as a poster?
posted by DragonBoy (33 comments total)

Whether Gore wins or not, I love the fact that this man - who the GOP loathes more than Satan himself - is one of the most loved and succesful presidents in a long while. Viva Clinton!
posted by owillis at 11:47 PM on October 31, 2000

Heck, I wish he would have run for a third term. This man is the greates President this country has had since FDR.
posted by DragonBoy at 11:53 PM on October 31, 2000

Two things: You saw Poli Incorrect, but did you see Nader and Ventura on Nightline right before?

deux: If you like Clinton so much, you should know that if Hillary wins her Senatorial bid, she will (and I can say this almost definitively) run for president in 2004.

Perish the thought.

Regarding the interview: Does anyone think the Repubs should apologize for impeaching him? He mentions that in the interview. Of course, if he wants an apology from all the Republicans, he should get one from Lieberman, too.

They should also sell tapes of the interview, because with Clinton, it’s all in the delivery.

That was not meant as a sexual innuendo, but it works just as well.
posted by capt.crackpipe at 12:12 AM on November 1, 2000

Actually crackpipe, a Clinton presidential bid would most likely come in 2008. She's promised that if she's elected to the senate in NY, she'll finish out her term.

Now, no matter what you think of her word, the political fallout from breaking this promise would seem to preclude a run in 2004.

posted by alan at 12:34 AM on November 1, 2000

Dude, Clinton said during the last campaign for Governor he would “absolutely, positively” not run for president. Then, suddenly, we had President Bill.

Either way, I ain’t got no crystal ball.
posted by capt.crackpipe at 12:54 AM on November 1, 2000

Egad. The mind shudders at the thought of, say, a Lieberman/Hillary Clinton run. (Of course, I keep having this scary feeling that the loathsome Diane Feinstein will make a run. And J.C. Watts! It's the triumph of the corrupt and incompetent -- the uncorruptable and competent have had their turn, you know?)

And I still don't buy Clinton's apologies. Say what you will about Hyde & Co., Bill did lie under oath. That's pretty damn bad for an ordinary lawyer to do, let alone the President.
posted by snarkout at 6:51 AM on November 1, 2000

All that cover is missing is the strategic placement of the words "bite me"...

Speaking as a NY state resident that will have to choose between Lazio or "Hillary" (no last name, please), I have to tell you that I'm down to flipping a coin. Its not a question of the lesser of two evils - they're equally evil, imho.
posted by pattiann at 8:06 AM on November 1, 2000

From the interview

this may sound kind of old-fashioned, but to a large extent it really is a job like other jobs. It matters whether you work smart; it matters whether you work hard; it matters what you work on; and it matters whether you've got a good team.

Say what you like about him, he's going to be missed.
posted by holgate at 8:24 AM on November 1, 2000

By some.
posted by thirteen at 8:29 AM on November 1, 2000

Everyone who still holds tight to the notion that Mr. Clinton is some golden boy of liberalism who was screwed over by an evil right-wing despot needs to read "No One Left To Lie To" by Christopher Hitchens. Mr. Hitchens is a true liberal who recognizes that Mr. Clinton is a liar, a lout, a rapist, and the worst thing to happen to genuine liberal thought in decades.

I implore you to read this book. It's short, funny, easily readable and filled with more honesty than a thousand presidential debates. Pshaw to Mr. Clinton and his abuses of power and women.
posted by Niccola Six at 9:13 AM on November 1, 2000

I think the republicans should apologize for the impeachment. The entire issue was dragged out way too long by a congress drunk with their own power. The republicans knew they would not be able to impeach him, but they went ahead with it anyway.

They will never get my vote again until they apologize.
posted by DragonBoy at 9:18 AM on November 1, 2000

Dragonboy: Are you sure you are voting for Ralph? You logic is contradictory.
I did not much approve of the impeachment spectacle but I did think it was genuine ideological purity at work. You a beating the Republicans with the same stick the Democrats are using on your boy.
I think the president owes everyone an apology as much as anyone else (for not just admitting the truth, and letting the whole thing blow over. Then he could be righteous and angry), but I don't think anyone with a future would even consider caving in to such a weak impulse. First one who says they are sorry has blinked, and sold out whatever credibility they had during the caravel.
posted by thirteen at 9:36 AM on November 1, 2000

Let the record show that Richie Daley has stayed in his own backyard. Daley for President!!!

I did think it was genuine ideological purity at work.

I disagree. Yes, Clinton should have been straight with the American people, but considering the waste of money that was the Whitewater Investigation™, I don't buy your "ideological purity" line one bit.
posted by ethmar at 9:51 AM on November 1, 2000

Niccola, Clinton a "rapist"? That's pretty rough. You state it like it's an opinion... It's a really serious charge that shouldn't be taken so lightly.
posted by daveadams at 9:52 AM on November 1, 2000

Ethmar: I too think Whitewater was wasted money too (MY MONEY). I accept your disagreement. I said ideological purity, because it was obvious Clinton was not going to be removed from office.
The fact that they continued when there was no real chance of winning made me think there was a deep belief that the president was unfit for office. They continued a self destructive course knowing they hurt their image, the only way I imagine they could justify it to themselves, is if they thought they were right. Axe-grinding could be achieved with less damage done to the Republican party. My opinion.
posted by thirteen at 10:11 AM on November 1, 2000

Dragonboy, Clinton WAS impeached.

He was just not impeached by both houses of the legislative branch but do not be confused, Bill Clinton is the second President of the United States to be impeached.
posted by Brilliantcrank at 10:25 AM on November 1, 2000

I wonder, is Clinton really the most loved president in a long time? I don't really know anyone who loves him, or if I do they're pretty quiet about it. I don't know anyone who really hates him either... thoughts? Do you love Clinton? Do your friends?
posted by s10pen at 10:50 AM on November 1, 2000

I thought the twist was that Clinton WAS impeached, but was not convicted. Impeachment is only by the House of Representatives, not by both houses of congress.
posted by smackfu at 11:13 AM on November 1, 2000

I don't love Clinton, but I have somewhat grudging admiration for him. I didn't vote for him and wouldn't vote for him, I disagree with his principles, I disagree with his practices, I cringe at his skeezy manipulation of facts and casual disregard for (what appear to be) his own principles. I'm pissed off at the way he's used his Democrat label and rhetoric to hoodwink the American left into supporting his list of moderate-rightwing policies.

But he should be able to perform any (legal) sex act he wants to with any person he wants to anywhere he wants to, just like the rest of us. He was persecuted for having sex; the lies came later. The persecution was small-minded and greedy; he weathered it and now gets to laugh at those who tried to bring him down. Good for him - that's the way it should be.

-Mars
posted by Mars Saxman at 11:15 AM on November 1, 2000

Bill Clinton - adulterer, horny? True. Rapist? No. Do I love him? You bet.
posted by owillis at 11:44 AM on November 1, 2000

I'm wondering what you base your opinion on owillis. How do you know that he isn't? Have you heard Ms. Broadrick's story? I know, I know, the republicans were awful and attacked him for an indiscretion that many of them are guilty of themselves... That's all beside the point.

Too many women with nothing to gain, tell the same story, with the same awful details (suddenly alone, biting their face, followed by apologies without acknowledgement).

Bill Clinton is funny, charming and good on TV. But there's a lot more to him than just that. And what is there is terrifying. He put the governments rescources towards saving his own ass and painted himself as a victim, which may be the grossest thing of all.
posted by Niccola Six at 11:51 AM on November 1, 2000

I heard Juanita Broadrick's story - didn't believe a word of it. To say Christopher Hitchens had an axe to grind with Clinton would be putting it mildly.

Bill Clinton is a man with good intentions, the intelligence to bring issues to the American people, and the foresight to bring his party closer to the middle (where the bulk of America is).

For the gall of being a Democrat elected president, he has been hunted and slandered for over 8 years by an out of touch and hypocritical Republican party.

Sexual flaws have tarnished his legacy, but that isn't all the man is about.
posted by owillis at 12:07 PM on November 1, 2000

Christopher Hitchens had an axe to grind with Clinton would be putting it mildly.

What was his axe to grind? (never read the book, don't really know much about Hitchens)


posted by s10pen at 12:10 PM on November 1, 2000

Basically Hitchens is a leftist who felt betrayed by Bill's move to the center
posted by owillis at 12:18 PM on November 1, 2000

Even Paula Jones knows she was used by the conservatives in an attempt to help their cause. And they threw money at her to get her to go along. When it was all over they abandoned her (and her lawyers got all the money), and she recently said as much in response to why she felt she had to pose for Penthouse. A lot of people will say and do anything for money (hence all the FOX marriage programming and CBS's "reality" crap shows), and Juanita is one of them.

Read all about her story and Kathleen Wiley's and neither holds up when held under the light. Rapes, if they occur, should be reported immediately and not 21 years after they allegedly occurred when someone is suddenly in a position of power. And in Wiley's case, if she felt so wronged why did she send such adoring letters to the President after he supposedly groped her? Because she is a money-grubbing slime ball who's husband embezzled money from clients. After he died, she worked like hell to protect the money for her own use so that the people he embezzled from couldn't get it back.

I couldn't give a rat's patootie if Clinton got blown in the oval office. I do love him, and I will miss him. And I will be pissed for years to come that the Republican's squandered $100 million taxpayer dollars for their vendetta. And I think many more will miss him when they see a return of trickle-down voodoo economics that failed for 12 years and will fail again. I may consider myself liberal, but the best place to run a country is from the middle.

Anyone who looks to presidents or sports or films stars for their moral compasses is looking in the wrong place. Clinton may be lacking certain things, but leadership is not one of them. Al Gore may be lacking charisma, but he knows policy and leadership. Bush knows how to have fun and get things from people based on nepotism.
posted by terrapin at 12:21 PM on November 1, 2000

If owillis wants to ignore the complaints of Ms. Broadrick, Ms. Wiley et al. he's more than entitled too (though i do think it's symptomatic of even liberal men to assume that more often than not, the woman is lying... especially when it's a guy we all want to like)... but these charges are not the only ones with which mr. clinton should be stuck... lest we forget:

a) a presidency which has only been centrist if you consider al gore a liberal.

b) his betrayal of the civil rights movement he claims to support so vigorously.

c) presiding over the execution of a mentally retarded man.

d) the killing of foreign civilians with american military might in order to distract the public from his own humiliations...

i could go on, but my point would be the same. yes, you democrats are right, Mr. Clinton was the "victim" of a right-wing conspiracy to undermine his presidency. but you're mistaken if you think that means he really isn't a monster.
posted by Niccola Six at 12:28 PM on November 1, 2000

blah blah blah (excuse to close tag).
posted by Avogadro at 12:41 PM on November 1, 2000

count me in as one who loves clinton, and is proud of it!

i remember when he first ran, i wasn't even old enough to vote, but i followed that '92 election closer then most adults. i was fascinated by this young, charismatic leader. clinton inspired me to care about the issues, care about my country, and care about the presidency. and to get involved in causes i care about, and to speak up when i saw things i thought were wrong and to fight for what i believed in. i loved "don't stop thinking about tomorrow" and then when that picture came out of young clinton shaking jfk's hand i was gone. as an idealistic 15 year old, i had found a hero.

i was disappointed at first with the lewinsky matter, due in a large part to the fact that i'm the same age as her. for a long time i believed clinton was telling the truth, and was very hurt when it came out he wasn't since i had believed in him whole heartedly.

as disappointed as i was by clinton's behavior the republican witchhunt to destroy him eventually, in my eyes, became more of a betrayal than any of clinton's misdeeds. impeachment, whitewater investigation etc. (52 MILLION for the whitewater investigation--how many of the homeless would that have fed? how many shelters would that have built? you get my drift) it wasn't about doing right for the american people, it was furthering individual political careers by trying to destroy the presidency of someone they didn't like. a marital affrair is a family issue...the only people who's opinions matter on this are clinton's and his family's. the rest of us need to mind our p's and q's.

and i'll take lying over a affair by my president, over lying about selling arms to iran to aid the contras ANY DAY!!!!
posted by saralovering at 1:14 PM on November 1, 2000

Politics is a dirty game. Nobody gets to the top without a certain amount of scheming, and a willingness to compromise one's principles. Which makes the position of the POTUS a paradoxical one: as Head of State, he stands for the nation on the world stage, whether you like it or not. It's easier in a country such as the UK or Canada, where the roles are split, or even in France, where the President is hardly ever regarded as a moral exemplar because he usually rises from the rank of Premier.

But Clinton performed an important role in the 90s, by shifting the political leadership from the semi-mythological WWII era to the Vietnam generation, with all its moral and social ambiguities. I'm not normally a fan of Michael Wolff's writing, but his recent piece on how the President's character shapes that of the nation is pretty insightful, especially in relation to Tuesday's choice.
posted by holgate at 1:39 PM on November 1, 2000

over lying about selling arms to iran to aid the contras ANY DAY!!!!

Which, as I'm fond of reminding everyone, is treason. But no! Clinton is the AntiChrist™ for lying! And Ollie North is a hero! Woohoo!
posted by ethmar at 5:45 PM on November 1, 2000

I'm quite certain I've seen that photograph before. It wasn't taken specially for this Esquire cover, they just knew it was the perfect one to use.
posted by dhartung at 8:44 PM on November 1, 2000

There was a time, in the middle of the fridge, that Karen thought about what the kangaroo might do if he stopped picking at that sore. But it wasn't until I sat in fudge that the fantastic submarine of Dr. Boomboombajimminy made housecalls. No one thinks pizza is written down, but the stain of happiness spreads like a Toyota over Idaho.
posted by honkzilla at 8:17 PM on July 11, 2001