Comments on: Surely you must be joking

Surely you must be joking

pieoverdone — Tue, 08 Mar 2005 19:15:50 -0800

In the South Seas there is a cargo cult of people. During the war they saw airplanes with lots of good materials, and they want the same thing to happen now. So they've arranged to make things like runways, to put fires along the sides of the runways, to make a wooden hut for a man to sit in, with two wooden pieces on his head to headphones and bars of bamboo sticking out like antennas--he's the controller--and they wait for the airplanes to land. They're doing everything right. The form is perfect. It looks exactly the way it looked before. But it doesn't work. No airplanes land. Excerpt from Cargo Cult Science by Richard Feynman

By: nebulawindphone

nebulawindphone — Tue, 08 Mar 2005 19:26:06 -0800

Huh. I guess my sincerity detector is out of whack — I was expecting a bunch of snarky links about Creationism or something. These were more interesting, though. Thanks.

By: mmahaffie

mmahaffie — Tue, 08 Mar 2005 19:31:26 -0800

Interesting links. Bear in mind, though, that we (USians,anyway) are a cargo cult. Go to TGI Fridays/Applebees/Cracker Barrel and look up.

By: dhoyt

dhoyt — Tue, 08 Mar 2005 19:39:38 -0800

Great post!

By: Relay

Relay — Tue, 08 Mar 2005 20:06:05 -0800

Richard Feynman? THE Richard Feynman? My god it IS! Amazing ... the more I learn about that guy, the more impressed I am. Great bongo player too!

By: AlexReynolds

AlexReynolds — Tue, 08 Mar 2005 20:11:17 -0800

For example, if you're doing an experiment, you should report everything that you think might make it invalid -- not only what you think is right about it: other causes that could possibly explain your results; and things you thought of that you've eliminated by some other experiment, and how they worked -- to make sure the other fellow can tell they have been eliminated. Makes sense, but I didn't learn why this is important until I took a stats class and covered analysis of variance, to see the numbers for myself. Funny how Feynman knew how to boil down an idea to its simple expression of truth.

By: greatgefilte

greatgefilte — Tue, 08 Mar 2005 20:17:01 -0800

Christopher Moore has a great book with a plot based around cargo cults, Island of the Sequined Love Nun.

By: NickDouglas

NickDouglas — Tue, 08 Mar 2005 20:27:30 -0800

Go to TGI Fridays/Applebees/Cracker Barrel and look up. For this to apply, we must take the accumulation of folksy stuff to be a ritualistic tool used by the restaurant to evoke an ambience (the "we're middle-class white folks partying" feeling of these casual chains) and thus sidestep actually creating something to party about. I think that might work, but I feel like this could go further.

By: NickDouglas

NickDouglas — Tue, 08 Mar 2005 20:32:00 -0800

If you want a real creep-out, read the second link ("cargo cult") while listening to the Aria from Philip Glass's "Einstein on the Beach." It's a religious experience I just stumbled on, and around which I will now form a belief system.

By: the theory of revolution

the theory of revolution — Tue, 08 Mar 2005 20:40:22 -0800

You want more of this stuff about psuedoscience and junk science and why many people believe crazy ass stuff like crop circles and ESP and such -- I highly reccomend Carl Sagan's Demon Haunted World. It deals with many of these themes and is a strong call for science education.

By: nkyad

nkyad — Tue, 08 Mar 2005 22:09:48 -0800

Wonderful links. Feyman text is, well, Feyman - excellent. But I rather enjoyed learning (from the first link) the history of the Prophet Yali and how he made the Aussies look like fools (and managed to drive the Christian priests away and de-evangelize his people). Smart guy. While the cargo still won't come, it is better to wait for cargo than to spend a Christian life of fear and guilty hoping for after-death payback.

By: Ethereal Bligh

Ethereal Bligh — Tue, 08 Mar 2005 22:10:28 -0800

(Thus why I wrote last month, "Objectivism is the cargo cult of philosophy". They've copied the trappings of reason and wave them around wildly, hoping that Ayn Rand's plane will land and upon them she will bestow her blessings.) The head of the cargo cult was taken to Australia and given tours of factories, warehouses, distribution centers, and airfields. To the astonishment of the Australian authorities, this did not deter his belief. This is as it ever has been.

By: numlok

numlok — Tue, 08 Mar 2005 22:26:39 -0800

Wow... Now I know, and knowing is half the battle. Thanks for this!

By: mono blanco

mono blanco — Tue, 08 Mar 2005 22:31:39 -0800

Build it and they will come.....NOT!

By: cmyk

cmyk — Tue, 08 Mar 2005 22:36:12 -0800

I've been fascinated with this ever since I saw a brief mention of it in a mythology book. Great post, pieoverdone.

By: hattifattener

hattifattener — Tue, 08 Mar 2005 22:38:26 -0800

Thinking about cargo cults always depresses me. Such fervent belief, such impressive effort, such shining uncrushable hope for the future. And all based on an idea that is, to us, so obviously misguided.

By: protea

protea — Tue, 08 Mar 2005 23:33:23 -0800

http://www.mirabilis.ca/archives/002595.html

By: zach4000

zach4000 — Tue, 08 Mar 2005 23:43:35 -0800

LOL @ mono blanco --- Great Post!!!

By: TungstenChef

TungstenChef — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 00:17:48 -0800

Great bongo player too! BWAHAHAHAHA *wipes tear from eye* Great post, and Feynman is a great man. One of those people I'm sad I never got to meet, but you can really feel like you've met him through his writings.

By: sour cream

sour cream — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 00:53:56 -0800

"I'm, uh, studying massage. Could I practice on you?" Heh...

By: wessatong

wessatong — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 01:07:05 -0800

whoa great link! i love finding out about these kinda things viewed from an anthropological standpoint.

By: Pretty_Generic

Pretty_Generic — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 01:35:06 -0800

In Vanuatu, a group of cargo cultists asked the pilot arriving with goods who the tribal chief of Britain was. He informed them it was the Queen. However, their culture could not stomach the idea of a female god, so they natrually inquired who her husband was. The group apparently still worship the Duke of Edinburgh. We need more snarky creationist links.

By: Pretty_Generic

Pretty_Generic — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 01:36:12 -0800

/worships feynman

By: goodnewsfortheinsane

goodnewsfortheinsane — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 03:40:28 -0800

This is some fascinating stuff. But what is this supposed to be? From the h2g2 article on the subject:

The Christian Message (Interpreted) In the native view, the Christians worshipped the god Anus.

Eh?

By: DaShiv

DaShiv — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 03:53:13 -0800

They were referring to the, eh, rather unfortunate mis-interpretation of Christianity by the natives. Within context, the same article also discussed how practitioners of voodoo thought they were acting like devout Catholics should be, etc.

By: asok

asok — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 04:10:24 -0800

Admitting limitations and being open to criticism may be construed as weekness by some, but in fact is strength. It is the strength of scientific method that has resulted in the progress that we have enjoyed in the past 4 hundred years. It is the antithesis of a faith based existence and is what distances us from the likes of the cargo cultists and the various extinct South American civilisations, for example. A move back toward 'faith based' decision making is a retrograde step and cannot benefit the human race. Humility and open discussion of ideas will help our survival. Scientific method allows for the discussion of ideas outside of the influence of political, economic and religious influences that can colour judgement. As in Socratic dialogue, the ideal of consensus is something we should strive toward, but not neccesarily an attainable result. Spirituality supports reality, we gotta strive for the right mentality. Where; spirituality=playing the bongos right mentality=scientific method.

By: mokujin

mokujin — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 04:48:02 -0800

John Frum he come! A few years ago I read an article that linked the cargo cult phenomenon or impulse to the legend of the sirens found in Homer's Odyssey. I just spent 20 minutes googling and gscholaring fruitlessly for it, and I kick myself for not remembering who wrote it or what the title was but I think it was in the Classical Quarterly. Anyway, the writer suggested that the legend of the Sirens had its roots in some reality of the mediterranean. It posited that a people inhabiting a coastline marked by treacherous shoals had realized that if they could lure passing merchant ships into the rocks they could then wade down and collect free cargo from the shipwreck. Over time this passed into folklore as the Sirens. Just thought I would mention that, as it seems to me like the will to cargo is probably a pretty old human instinct. See also Frazer's The Golden Bough, and especially the chapter on imitative magic for more about getting shit for free. Isn't that whole notion of "dressing for success" an implementation of the same sort of thought? We think that if we dress like the wealthy and successful we too will become wealthy and succesful.

By: DaShiv

DaShiv — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 05:11:18 -0800

Celebrity endorsements work.

By: ColdChef

ColdChef — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 06:43:57 -0800

I had never heard of this before. I love you, MetaFilter. (And I worship you like a god.)

By: artifarce

artifarce — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 07:01:33 -0800

Back to the nuts and bolts, I remember high school experiments where knowing what the results were supposed to be, I, either consciously or unconsciously, would modify numbers. Would the teacher mark me down for "wrong data"? It's not a big step from that to gathering data for researchers in college where I had an idea of the thesis they expected. Of course, the methods to verify my research were better. I couldn't just change things. But I could've missed something new and exciting because I wanted it to match something else. When did I develop the required mindset for honest research? It wasn't with the "expected the expected and give us the right numbers" mentality I learned in high school. Research isn't just about open and honest reporting, as Feynman said; it's about having an open and honest mind.

By: mds35

mds35 — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 07:12:18 -0800

This is neat stuff. It was neat last year, too. Thanks for the Feynman link!

By: pieoverdone

pieoverdone — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 07:14:54 -0800

Fooo. I searched Feynman and Cargo Cult.

By: all-seeing eye dog

all-seeing eye dog — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 07:36:07 -0800

Thanks pieoverdone! I've been trying to spread the word about cargo cults for years; now I can just point people to this post.

By: jbrjake

jbrjake — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 07:54:05 -0800

This is neat stuff. It was neat last year, too. ...it was neat in 2002 as well. Though this is a far better post, pieoverdone.

By: Sully

Sully — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 08:15:09 -0800

I am going to get a plane, load it with goods, and fly on over there. Once I land, I will declare myself John Frum. I will distribute goods, hailing myself as a diety. I will tell the locals that if they want more goods to arrive they will have to appease me, and I am easily bored and hungry for innocent flesh. This is how I will live out the remainder of my days.

By: mds35

mds35 — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 08:31:36 -0800

...this is a far better post, pieoverdone. Agreed! Well done, pieoverdone.

By: hellinskira

hellinskira — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 08:36:02 -0800

John Frum = "Hi, I'm John, from US of A!" Maybe that is why there is no record of the soldier... I was just reading about this in Paul Thereoux's travel book "Happy Isles of Oceania". If any of you wish you were traveling there right now, I suggest reading it as an alternative.

By: kalessin

kalessin — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 08:59:41 -0800

Dream Park by Pournelle/Barnes has a fictional RPG scenario within the fiction of the book itself that's based on a Cargo Cult and a golden "egg" that turns out to be an A-bomb. Amusing romp. Not saying it's in any way non-fictional, more an indication of our Sci-Fi/RPG cultural interaction with our conception of who these folks are.

By: mygothlaundry

mygothlaundry — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 09:28:49 -0800

Only on metafilter - I just spent the last 20 minutes trying to figure out why I was recently thinking about cargo cults, was it a game I was playing on the computer? No, it was a book. . . a book about a game. . . but not a real game, a sci fi book. . . not a new book, a book from goodwill, how am I going to google that? And then kalessin found and posted it. If I had better google-fu maybe I could find the movie I'm thinking about too, from the 80s I think, where a helicopter or plane dumps all its contents on a remote island, and the inhabitants take it as a sign? There's no dialogue in the whole movie, just a dropped boombox playing Buttercup.

By: talos

talos — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 09:46:26 -0800

Cargo... One could write a Pacific Island version of "waiting for God(ot)" out of this. Also: Feyman in more detail about his encounter with Uri Geller.

By: DaShiv

DaShiv — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 09:50:20 -0800

All those islanders celebrating my birthday all these years, and I didn't even know I was destined to become John Frum. Fate has spoken.

By: somnambulist

somnambulist — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 10:05:10 -0800

Hmmmm. Let me see if I have this straight. Symbological artifacts are prepared. Elaborate rituals are performed on a regular basis. A strong sense of Faith is the foundation to their beliefs. All in preparation of the "return", of salvation from heaven. Nope never heard of that one before. What a backward and primitive people. They are "obviously misguided".

By: skyline

skyline — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 10:21:35 -0800

Not to state the obvious or anything.

By: madamjujujive

madamjujujive — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 10:54:44 -0800

fabulous post, pieoverdone - thanks!

By: -harlequin-

-harlequin- — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 10:59:27 -0800

But this long history of learning how to not fool ourselves -- of having utter scientific integrity -- is, I'm sorry to say, something that we haven't specifically included in any particular course that I know of. We just hope you've caught on by osmosis I went a different university, but there was a course at mine that spent a lot of time dealing directly with this stuff - Philosophy of Science. Only problem was, there was no need to do that course (and plenty of reason not to) to get a science degree. Thus the university could graduate with a science degree people who ddidn't understand the basic principles of science. (I knew at least one where the misconceptions were shocking). Many people assume that philosophy courses are the useless ones, when they often seem to be the most important ones. Not sure why they have such a bad rap. Maybe when work-training is felt to be more important than education, theory gets relegated to second place.

By: etaoin

etaoin — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 11:19:34 -0800

Great collection of links about the cargo cults--when I first read about them a while back, there was some mention of Prince Charles, if I recall correctly--for some reason, they seem to think he's destined to come rescue them.

By: Gif

Gif — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 12:37:49 -0800

If I had better google-fu maybe I could find the movie I'm thinking about too, from the 80s I think, where a helicopter or plane dumps all its contents on a remote island, and the inhabitants take it as a sign? There's no dialogue in the whole movie, just a dropped boombox playing Buttercup. Sounds like the movie "The Gods must be crazy", but this film has some dialog in the form of narration and it concerns a quest to dispose of a troublesome bottle dropped from an airplane. Still, if you are in the mood for a Cargo Cult inspired movie this should do the trick.

By: murphy slaw

murphy slaw — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 16:15:27 -0800

mygothlaundry, the movie you're thinking of is not "The Gods Must Be Crazy", but rather Luggage Of The Gods!. I rented "Luggage Of The Gods!" for the weekly movie night at a house I shared with some friends. I wasn't allowed to rent any more movies after that. Clearly, getting the rights to "Buttercup" ate up most of the budget, which is why they played it every five minutes.

By: snsranch

snsranch — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 20:09:05 -0800

"Boss, ze plane ze plane!!!!!!!!!!" A truely bizzare story. Now I understand the lines and pictures at Nazca.

By: Bugbread

Bugbread — Thu, 10 Mar 2005 15:02:40 -0800

somnambulist wrote " Symbological artifacts are prepared. Elaborate rituals are performed on a regular basis. A strong sense of Faith is the foundation to their beliefs. All in preparation of the 'return', of salvation from heaven.

"Nope never heard of that one before.

"What a backward and primitive people. They are 'obviously misguided'." How inciting and clever! Why, it would have never occured to me, nor any of the other Mefi readers. Thank you!