Comments on: Indie Coffee

Indie Coffee

mkultra — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 07:53:36 -0800

The mission of delocator.net is to assist the public in finding and supporting independently owned cafés. There's a thinly-veiled stance against a certain coffee company, but the site's a great community-driven toolkit for finding yourself a good cup of joe anywhere in the US.

By: HuronBob

HuronBob — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:06:14 -0800

"The standardization of this spatial, social, and physical experience is hostile to the historical culture of the café and is dangerous, ultimately, to democratic principles." sheesh...it is ONLY a coffee shop.....

By: iconomy

iconomy — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:09:17 -0800

I entered my zip and the only returns I got were the Starbucks up the street from me, and the Starbucks down the street from me.

By: beelzbubba

beelzbubba — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:17:07 -0800

looks like I've got some work to do--or my fellow 48105'ers can help, too. The delocator lists two cafes and ten starbucks. I can think of at least six other cafes within easy reach, so I guess I'll have to look up addys and post them. Best by far is Cafe Verde run by People's Food Coop on Fourth Ave.

By: Item

Item — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:19:51 -0800

I got the Starbucks around the corner from me. Okay idea, but it needs some work by someone other than me.

By: uncleozzy

uncleozzy — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:22:30 -0800

Wow, it almost makes the Yellow Pages obsolete!

By: HuronBob

HuronBob — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:23:26 -0800

yep...at this point it is a great way to find your local Starbucks ..heh... oh, the irony! Somebody should come up with some kind of directory for businesses, based on geography, distributed right to your house... and, to make it easy to find on the shelf, let's make the pages yellow......and, we'll update it each year wait.. i have an idea....! oh...

By: HuronBob

HuronBob — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:24:03 -0800

damn you uncleozzy....

By: angry modem

angry modem — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:25:27 -0800

The standardized experience is superior in many ways. Not only is the service going to be more consistent than if you visited many independent cafes, but you can find one of those standardized locations much easier than your favorite hole in the wall. And while your favorite hole in the wall is most definitely going to provide better services, these standardized locations also provide a different sort of service. Independent businesses can never be fully squashed by corporate efficiency--they don't account for human boredom. In short, it's yet more penchant whining about Starbucks. Pass the Frap.

By: mediareport

mediareport — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:28:56 -0800

In less time than it took to post this, I just added a favorite cafe. You don't even need the full address.

By: sbutler

sbutler — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:31:53 -0800

No Starbucks yet... but one is coming. I don't have a problem with Starbucks, although I doubt I'll spend much time at our new one (no free wireless). Being a college town there are already so many coffee shops (5 on campus alone, 2 in downtown) that I doubt one more will hurt local business.

By: peacay

peacay — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:33:17 -0800

Not just meant for coffee/cafes... "The creation of other delocated database-driven web sites is encouraged. On the delocator.net web site, users are able to download the code necessary to establish a new database, prompting more sites and databases that may focus on other specific retail stores (fast-food, hardware, clothing, etc.). www.delocator.net was launched with the intention of becoming a web-meme, sprouting many future de-located corporate stores"

By: nyterrant

nyterrant — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:40:08 -0800

Based on my own unscientific observation, it seems Starbucks was actually the catalyst for a lot of the good local coffee shops you see today. Does anyone else remember the time before Starbucks popularized espresso drinks, when all you could get for coffee in most towns was a mug of thin drip-filter swill at the local diner? Nice post, good site.

By: hautenegro

hautenegro — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:41:28 -0800

If I were a paranoid person, I would say that Starbucks could use this site to buy out more coffee shops. But I'm not a paranoid person. Not at all. SNAKES!

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:42:50 -0800

I have now reached the point where everytime someone stamps their feet, insisting that I not support the oligarchs at Starbucks I fucking crave a Starbucks coffee and I can't stand Starbucks and when I go into a Starbucks I get hives. So now I've got a ventiwhateverthefuckinghell and a Chick Korea best of cd and hives. Also do not use the internet to find coffee, go outside and ask someone where is coffee please? There is no coffee on the internet. Wait, I just figured out why I might actually want to go to a Starbucks, because the good ass local hipster coffee place I go to has a fucking tattooed hipster doofus who won't say "what do you want?" or some variant, he says "What's up?" and so I want to say "Man that new Mars Volta cd is crazy, bro! Oh and I want a fucking small coffee you asshole."

By: tpl1212

tpl1212 — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:44:09 -0800

I'm going to add in all the Dunkin' Donuts around me...just to spit in the face of big corporate america.

By: jenleigh

jenleigh — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:44:21 -0800

I'm a lifelong tea-drinker & non-coffee-drinker who's spent almost half her life in second & thirdworld countries, thus the concept of ubiquitious Starbucks is lost on me. I realize they're a large company which threatens to take business away from local concerns, but can someone enlighten me on why they are singled out? I've read more than a few stories about their businesses being vandalized, ridiculed, discouraged from bringing franchises to new towns, and so forth. Of so many corporations, how did they become Enemy #1? Is it about Character: small intimate 'lifestyle' coffeehouses vs. a larger, rote, mass-marketed brand? Again, I've spent precious few minutes in any coffeehouse so I'm not as familiar with how loyal people can be to an environment like that. Hah, I have witnessed religious pub-loyalty, though. Is there a 'Starbucks of alcohol' in the US? There's plenty I could find on Google, I'm just curious what personal anecdotes MeFites can offer.

By: 327.ca

327.ca — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:45:00 -0800

By: nathan_teske

nathan_teske — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:46:54 -0800

I don't have a problem with Starbucks per se, but it does fall fairly far down my hierarchy of coffee snobbbery: 1) Local independent shops which I know are good 2) Local independent shops which I haven't patronized 3) Locally owned chains (Dunn Bros. and Caribou in my case) 4) Starbucks 5) Gas station coffee The other week my barber informed me that a Starbucks was moving in just across the street from his shop, a block up from where I live. There's many independent shops in the same area and I don't think Starbucks is going to affect their business at all.

By: 327.ca

327.ca — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:51:55 -0800

I'm a lifelong tea-drinker & non-coffee-drinker who's spent almost half her life in second & thirdworld countries, thus the concept of ubiquitious Starbucks is lost on me. I realize they're a large company which threatens to take business away from local concerns, but can someone enlighten me on why they are singled out? My guess is because they're successful. And because many of us used to like Starbucks. It's a comfortable, low-key environment with good coffee, inoffensive music, free reading material, neighbourhood locations, etc. And then the inevitable realization set in that all that "atmosphere" was carefully contrived and bottom-line-driven. But really, it's just a company doing what companies do. The cynicism about Starbucks is probably a large part embarassment that we ever fell for all the trappings.

By: mkultra

mkultra — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:56:33 -0800

DW- that was hilarious, man. To those who gripe about the contents of the db for your zip- hey, it's community-driven. As mediareport said, it's trivial to add your own. jenleigh- As nyterrant pointed out, Starbucks is largely responsible for bringing European-style coffee back into the American mainstream. For that, I commend them. However: - I'm not a fan of their brewed American coffee, and many agree with me. It's roasted within an inch of its life, and is too bitter. - Their coffee is overpriced, which has IMHO led to an unnecessary increase in coffee prices everywhere. - They've increasingly relied on turning their espresso drinks into dessert, through all manner of caramel, whipped cream, chocolate, toffee, and whatever else comes to mind. - They are incredibly agressive about their expansion, deliberately trying to crush local businesses in a market that (IMHO) is large enough to support them both just fine. It's not uncommon in NYC to see two Starbucks within eyeshot of each other.

By: twistedonion

twistedonion — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:58:19 -0800

Starbucks..... Never had an opinion on them till I visited London for the first time in 10 years - Fucking Hell, talk about saturation. the problem I have with Starbucks is the culture, or lack thereof. I like cafes. Cafes have character, locals, and they all have their own individual peculiarities. They are like the 'alcohol free local'. Starbucks is destroying that. Bit like Tescos destroying the local markets. But hey, it's all about choice.

By: ROU_Xenophobe

ROU_Xenophobe — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 09:02:09 -0800

Seems to me that all of the complaints they have against Starbucks would also apply to Tim Horton's, and no sane person could possibly believe that Timmy's is a force for evil. I gotta get me the Timmy's franchise rights for Texas...

By: odinsdream

odinsdream — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 09:05:01 -0800

"This web site is built in a pop-up window. Really. You better turn on pop-ups to see our site. Seriously, turn them on right now or our site won't work. WE MEAN IT DAMN IT.... okay so you don't really have to, just click here."

By: KirkJobSluder

KirkJobSluder — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 09:07:15 -0800

My issue with Starbucks is that while their coffee tends to be good, everything else sucks. I can't even look at a Starbuck's smoothie being made without hurling. It's not coffee snobbery that drives me to the locals, it's juice and pastry snobbery. Another reason I hate Starbucks: I'm already in your store, shut up about the advertising already!

By: PinkStainlessTail

PinkStainlessTail — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 09:13:27 -0800

...no sane person could possibly believe that Timmy's is a force for evil... Well fetch me a straight jacket then, 'cause I think Hortons are the crappiest mass produced donuts in NA. I really wish I liked them: there's three within short driving/long walking distance of my apartment.

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 09:14:43 -0800

Oh dear lord, pop-up window site, the Jehovah's Witnesses of web design. I'm not a fan of their brewed American coffee, and many agree with me. It's roasted within an inch of its life, and is too bitter. Right, exactly. The espresso is ok, but the brewed coffee is like three seconds from lips to 30 minutes on the can, it's like freebasing rasins and exlax. They got bathrooms though; If a hobo ain't performing his abolutions in one of them or I didn't just wreck shop because I had a small coffee of the day you can usually wander in off the street for a pee.

By: 327.ca

327.ca — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 09:15:09 -0800

[...] no sane person could possibly believe that Timmy's is a force for evil. Hmmm...not sure I'd agree with you. I'm fully prepared to accept that Tim Hortons is a force for evil. (Did you know that virtually every product they sell is chock fulla trans fats? A single Tim Hortons sour cream glazed doughnut contains five grams of trans fat. One of their whole wheat carrot muffin (mmmm -- nutricious, right?) has 408 calories and a whopping 20 grams of fat. Now, Tim Hortons coffee? That's a force for good. I'm gonna go out and get some right now.

By: Staggering Jack

Staggering Jack — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 09:18:26 -0800

Starbucks really has become an efficient caffeine delivery system. According to this chart, there's 550mg of caffeine in one of their 16oz grande coffees, compared to only 190mg in a 64oz Big Gulp or 35mg in a shot of espresso.

By: odinsdream

odinsdream — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 09:20:35 -0800

Metafilter: like freebasing rasins and exlax

By: KevinSkomsvold

KevinSkomsvold — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 09:25:40 -0800

I dig Starbucks for their eclectic music collection. Nora Jones, Lucinda Williams, etc... C'mon people; you can't find that shit anywhere else. Also, I'm gonna garotte the next shitheel who insists on hogging the cream & sugar table to get his coffee "just right". I need a goddamn stirrer. Move or I commence ta' scalding.

By: NortonDC

NortonDC — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 09:31:34 -0800

mkultra -- They are incredibly agressive about their expansion, deliberately trying to crush local businesses in a market that (IMHO) is large enough to support them both just fine. Want your independent coffeehouse to be a success? Pray for a Starbucks to open next door.

By: bondcliff

bondcliff — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 09:32:47 -0800

I'll show those Starbucks people! The Walmart near me makes an awesome cup of coffee so I just went ahead and put them in the database. STICK IT TO THE MAN!

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 09:34:08 -0800

Kevin, Exactly! At what point in the progression of culture did it become neccessary to spread out and re-enact the Manhattan project over your coffee? A hint of cinnamon, a dash of cane sugar, ooh too hot, more 2%, stir, stir, taste, fiddle. All I want is a little milk you bleedin' alchemist, move to the right and keep those elbows in. I can see I care quite passionatly about all of this after all, I think I'd better switch to Sanka, Sanka made from lukewarm tap water and drank out of a old Campbells clam chowder can whilst I crouch on the rim of the toilet and grunt softly.

By: Shane

Shane — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 09:46:46 -0800

By: Shane

Shane — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 09:49:42 -0800

(Above art is "copyright" Kieron Dwyer. Or maybe not...)

By: trharlan

trharlan — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 09:50:40 -0800

nathan_teske-- Unless you miraculously jet from Bahrain to Minneapolis every time you get a hankering for java, you're not frequenting a locally-owned business.

By: RockyChrysler

RockyChrysler — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 09:52:00 -0800

The Walmart near me makes an awesome cup of coffee now that gives me a great idea: the demonopolizer. enter the name of a product sold at walmart and it gives you the names of locally-owned stores where you can buy the same thing.

By: Jos Bleau

Jos Bleau — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 10:01:37 -0800

Prior generations of Americans wouldn't wait a minute to pay 35 cents for a bad cup of coffee. Now Starbucks has trained a generation of Americans to wait patiently in line for a not-very-great $4 cup of coffee. Independent cofee houses offering a better coffee at the same price for less waiting are the ones that thrive. The others die. Starbucks is just another gateway drug.

By: nyterrant

nyterrant — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 10:22:22 -0800

twistedonion: the problem I have with Starbucks is the culture, or lack thereof. I like cafes. Cafes have character, locals, and they all have their own individual peculiarities. They are like the 'alcohol free local'. Keep in mind that outside the major US cities, things are very different. In northwest Chicago and other bleak suburban outposts, Starbucks - or, better yet, the Starbucks inside the Barnes & Noble bookstore - frequently serves as the intellectual/cultural hub of the community. There's nothing else there. I'm speaking from experience here. I've found that in New York, where I live, in Boston, London and Vienna, where I used to live, and in college towns, there are plenty of good, local cafes - though sometimes I prefer Starbucks if I'm on the go. Vienna had the best cafes by far.

By: beagle

beagle — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 10:27:54 -0800

Earth to Delocator: Google has been invented. It made not be "community-driven", but it works better than this thing, which will soon be sued by Starbuck for trademark infringement, I would guess. Results for my town from Google Local: 10 (includes one Starbucks but the rest are all indies. Keyword "coffee" plus the zip code. Additional results from nearby zips. Results for same zip from Delocator: 2, and nothing from nearby zips.

By: melt away

melt away — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 10:37:54 -0800

While I prefer independent or locally-owned cafes myself it has to be said that Starbucks itself isn't exactly evil. They seem to treat their employees rather well with group health insurance, help with college, cheap rates at gyms, pounds of free coffee and maybe other things. I can think of worse corporate entities.

By: dhoyt

dhoyt — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 11:01:02 -0800

I wonder which alternative high school this Kieron Dwyer fellow attends. GREED SUCKS!

By: salad spork

salad spork — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 11:11:47 -0800

starbucks stores in downtown seattle. (I wish there were a way to make the map display more than just the top 10 results - like, all the Starbucks within that map square. That'd be crazy cool.) I think we may have reached market saturation around here... hell, if I want Starbucks I don't even have to go outside. I'd patronize the local places, but really, it all comes down to laziness.

By: Doohickie

Doohickie — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 11:47:53 -0800

Meh. Coffee isn't even a reason to go out for me. I can make it at home and it's less bother. They have me driving about 10 miles to the nearest non-Starbucks, but there are 5 Starbucks within a 3-mile radius. I'm not sure what the point of the site is.

By: MattD

MattD — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 12:03:54 -0800

Cafes differentiated from Starbucks can do great -- in fact, Starbucks can help them by whetting the appetite for something better. Here are some things that can make a cafe better than Starbucks: (1) better music (2) better food (not hard) (3) better seating -- real couches, for example. (4) booze (5) partial table service (order at the counter but a busboy brings you your drink) (6) free or cheaper wireless or, even better, wired service via Ethernet, 1394, or USB cables. (I felt like I died and went to heaven when I stumbled into a cafe which had two 8x1 routers with 16 Ethernet cables you could just plug into and go.) (7) did I mention booze?

By: joquarky

joquarky — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 12:29:56 -0800

I'd like to see something like this for independent restaurants that deliver pizza =)

By: justgary

justgary — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 12:44:38 -0800

And then the inevitable realization set in that all that "atmosphere" was carefully contrived and bottom-line-driven. Isn't almost any place carefully contrived? Your local indy coffee shop is probably trying hard to be the anti starbucks. They are incredibly agressive about their expansion, deliberately trying to crush local businesses in a market that (IMHO) is large enough to support them both just fine. I hear this all the time. Starbucks was a big reason coffee spread everywhere. I visited seattle years ago and went to my first starbucks. Had never heard of one before. Came back home and coffee shops slowly started opening up. If you're a good indy coffee shop, you'll be fine. If you're a lame one, and they do exist, you won't. the Starbucks inside the Barnes & Noble bookstore - frequently serves as the intellectual/cultural hub of the community. Not really a starbucks.

By: phearlez

phearlez — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 12:48:26 -0800

I 2nd/3rd/Nth the "that made my day" to DW. I understand the dislike of Starbucks from the standpoint of price (too high) and quality (mediocre) but am as confused as many of you about why people get so overwrought about it. It's successful because it fills its niche well - it's ubiquitous and easy to find and indentify and you know pretty much exactly what you're going to get when you go there. It's McCoffee. I'd rather have a burger off my grill but if I can't and there's one nearby there's Five Guys. Or more likely there's a Fuddruckers. Or finally there's McDs and I can drive through, cram it in my maw and get on with other things. Likewise if there's a better local cafe I'll get my coffee there, but if there's not, there's not. Activist yellow-pages apps are never going to replace the ease of drive-till-you-see-the-green-circle no matter how much they want it to.

By: bashos_frog

bashos_frog — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 13:04:41 -0800

112 Starbucks Stores found near zip code 10020 16 Cafes found near zip code 10020 (and I think they underestimated the number of Starbucks)

By: bashos_frog

bashos_frog — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 13:08:58 -0800

By the way, zip code 10020 is only 0.027 square miles.

By: blacklite

blacklite — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 18:55:49 -0800

Tim Horton's has a death grip on Toronto; there were six within a two minute walk of my old place in Toronto. Somewhere in Vancouver, I think on Robson St, there is a Starbucks diagonally opposite an intersection from... a Starbucks. For some reason this bothers me more than Second Cups almost diagonally opposite each other at Spadina & Bloor in Toronto. I guess it's all a matter of how much globalized megacorp you want mixed in your coffee. I don't go to Starbucks much anymore just because I think the alternatives taste better most of the time, but they are nice enough places. Some people just need to calm down, and quit making popup-window all-graphics self-indulgent websites. But no comment on this thread will be better than DW's.

By: LordSludge

LordSludge — Wed, 06 Apr 2005 03:53:05 -0800

MattD: Dunno if they have 'em in your area, but Port City Java has free wireless ethernet, free wired ethernet plumbed to every table, and plenty of power jacks -- or at least both of 'em in my town do. Just FYI. Otherwise, it's a pretty unremarkable chain coffee shop.

By: mendel

mendel — Thu, 07 Apr 2005 09:30:17 -0800

If only the site authors' awareness of alternatives to Starbucks extended to provide awareness of places other than the United States. Even Starbucks' own store locator happily accepts Canadian postal codes.