How came any reasonable being to subject himself to such a yoke of misery?

April 5, 2005 1:27 PM

Confessions of an EBay opium addict - Like anyone trolling the Internet at 4 a.m., I had been looking for some kind of temporary drug fix. I found it on eBay under Crafts>Floral Supplies>Flowers, Foliage>Dried. (via Alternet)
posted by mrgrimm (74 comments total)

Start with a clean, chemical-free stock of dried poppy pods. Pulverize in a blender and scald with water. Don’t boil. Don’t burn. Don’t vaporize. Just scald. Blend on low for about a minute and then add a dash of lemon juice to taste. Add a cup of fine, aged brandy and then strain through an old T-shirt to remove lingering lumps.

Why does it have to be an OLD T-shirt?
posted by Balisong at 1:32 PM on April 5, 2005

I don't think it has to be an old one, it's just that you're getting opium schmutz all over it.
posted by Divine_Wino at 1:38 PM on April 5, 2005

Proper instructions pls kthx
posted by redteam at 1:42 PM on April 5, 2005

Nice.
posted by salminen at 1:42 PM on April 5, 2005

Jeebus, that's a depressing article.
posted by Specklet at 1:43 PM on April 5, 2005

Drug addiction ain't pretty.
posted by caddis at 1:46 PM on April 5, 2005 [1 favorite]

Why does it have to be an OLD T-shirt?

I assume because it's thinner and works better as a sieve.
posted by mrgrimm at 1:48 PM on April 5, 2005

See also this thread (why isn't our author just growing them?).
posted by norm at 1:52 PM on April 5, 2005

This is really good and wierdly terrifying. Thanks.
posted by OmieWise at 1:52 PM on April 5, 2005

A special of “600 XXL-sized gigantheums” was selling for $399.... I ordered a few dozen dried flowers from a seller with more than 3,000 positive-feedback points and a clever handle that was a clear double-entendre on horticulture and getting high."

Ha ha, that is clever.
posted by rkent at 2:00 PM on April 5, 2005

they felt like pine cones being forced through a tiny hole in a dry brick
One of the least talked about side effects. I always thought the best idea to get (some) junkies clean is to force them to grow and manufacture their own gear. The poppy production process to get O is very labour intensive.
posted by Samuel Farrow at 2:12 PM on April 5, 2005

Jim Hogshire, the guy who started it all, got a pretty rough ride over poppy pod tea. Courtesy of Bob Black, the anarchist saint/con-man snitch.

Something about being able to recognize the pioneers 'cause they're face down in a ditch full of arrows.
posted by warbaby at 2:13 PM on April 5, 2005

Sweet jebus. Scary, and you know rkent, I'm all about open information sharing, but maybe you should have kept that to yourself.
posted by Freen at 2:18 PM on April 5, 2005

Freen: come on, this person is selling poppy pods in bulk online, and with a name like that, should at least anticipate some ambiguity and suspicion to ensue. And I'm not accusing him / her of a crime; if selling poppy pods for craft purposes is legal, then so be it. It seems to be a roaring success, at any rate.

But if Matt wants to delete that, I'll understand.
posted by rkent at 2:23 PM on April 5, 2005 [1 favorite]

Well I started out laughing loudly......but there was never going to be a sustainable upside to this story.
I wonder if it's real........writing while withdrawing seems implausible. But the writer is knowledgeable about wicked ways.
posted by peacay at 2:24 PM on April 5, 2005

It only took me two clicks on eBay to find the eBay seller referenced. The article makes it pretty how to find them. I don't think rkent linking directly to them is especially harmful -- and the seller's name is clever.
posted by arielmeadow at 2:31 PM on April 5, 2005

Wow. I have a friend who's trying to kick a pain med habit. I'm torn between wanting to send him this as a cautionary tale and not wanting to because, yeah, he pretty much tells you exactly how to buy an opium high off of eBay. Scary stuff.
posted by gurple at 2:40 PM on April 5, 2005

"...if selling poppy pods for craft purposes is legal, then so be it."

Don't read this article if you ever want to grow poppies (or buy dried poppies at an arts and crafts store, or, um, own them). In fact, don't read the post and don't read this comment of mine. If you don't know the common poppy can be used to produce opium, it's fine to grow them and stuff. If you do know, then you can be arrested. According a famous webstory that I'm sure has appeared here on Mefi. Sounds crazy, but I'm perfectly willing to believe the drug laws in the US are that crazy.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 2:45 PM on April 5, 2005

Yeah, because knowledge can be used to establish intent. Which is a crime.
posted by mai at 3:16 PM on April 5, 2005

"Sometimes I wonder, if I may be losing my incident room"
posted by fullerine at 3:24 PM on April 5, 2005

This is just silly. In America, knowing the properties of a plant makes it illegal to posses, while the lack of such knowledge makes it legal. No wonder the drug-laws are openly flouted.

( Norm has linked to the earlier discussion here about Micheal Pollan's amazing 1997 Harper's Magazine article above, EB.)
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 3:25 PM on April 5, 2005

It's true! If you don't know that it's illegal, or that you are finding a loophole in the law, this is one of the loopholes that will let you slip through..then it's much harder to prosecute..
Good thing I burned out my mem...
Does anyone else remember their acid summer?
posted by Balisong at 3:25 PM on April 5, 2005

rkent: I meant that more as a personal thing, not as if I was speaking ex-cathedra. I don't think your comment should in any way shape or form be deleted, it's just that, if i had that knowledge, I don't think I would share it.
posted by Freen at 3:29 PM on April 5, 2005

Gurple says "I have a friend who's trying to kick a pain med habit. I'm torn between wanting to send him this as a cautionary tale and not wanting to..."

After reading the story, I think anyone would have to be crazy to inflict this on themselves, so the story wouldn't cause anyone to go out and order some dried pods (I hope).

Anyone can learn to build a bomb or to pick locks on a website like totse.com, but one would do so at their own great risk.

I've known about opium pods for a few years, and have thought of trying them, but not after this. The fact the pods are being sold on eBay simply adds to the amazingnes of the story, in my opinion.
posted by F4B2 at 3:52 PM on April 5, 2005

AA+++ article! Pleasure to read! recommend!!!
posted by wfrgms at 3:52 PM on April 5, 2005

Supposedly you can make a tea out of morning glory seeds, too, if they've been cracked open.. Very eye opening!

So much so that in order to sell morning glory seeds, they must be sprayed with a horrible tasting fluid so as not to buy them in bulk..
posted by Balisong at 4:02 PM on April 5, 2005

If you don't know that it's illegal, or that you are finding a loophole in the law, this is one of the loopholes that will let you slip through

I always thought "ignorance of the law is no defense," but perhaps I've been whitewashed. True, intent is important in things like murder, but you'll still get a parking ticket even if you didn't know that it was illegal to park there (bad example). And you still can be arrested for manslaughter even if you never meant to harm anyone ...

Thanks for the Hogshire links, warbaby. I remember Hogshire from the Loompanics book, but that whole story is fascinating.

I could have sworn I remember Dr. Weil talking about morning glory enemas once, but I'll be damned if I can find it online.
posted by mrgrimm at 4:30 PM on April 5, 2005

I want to know how he made mead in coke bottles.
posted by borkingchikapa at 4:36 PM on April 5, 2005

Mead recipes at your fingertips. Just downsize.

no, not meant as a snark - I've been meaning to brew a few buckets of mead but I've been busy - I'm surprised that he didn't blow his pop-bottle mead all over his room
posted by PurplePorpoise at 4:48 PM on April 5, 2005

If you don't know the common poppy can be used to produce opium, it's fine to grow them and stuff. If you do know, then you can be arrested. According a famous webstory that I'm sure has appeared here on Mefi.

I do believe that this is the article that Ethereal Bligh is remembering. It also discusses the Hogshires
posted by mr_roboto at 4:51 PM on April 5, 2005

Sorry, forgot to add - his childhood pop-bottle mead probably wasn't any better than pruno
posted by PurplePorpoise at 4:51 PM on April 5, 2005

After reading the story, I think anyone would have to be crazy to inflict this on themselves, so the story wouldn't cause anyone to go out and order some dried pods

Oddly enough the story has google ads for poppy pods on the side...

I always thought "ignorance of the law is no defense," but perhaps I've been whitewashed.

Neither A nor B actually. Someone not aware of the hallucinogenic properties of the plant is in ignorance of fact, which IS a defense.
posted by clevershark at 4:56 PM on April 5, 2005

well spotted clevershark..google ads

but I'd be thinking there's not much in the way of hallucingenic properties to poppies....more analgesic/sedative
posted by peacay at 5:10 PM on April 5, 2005

I thought about the stairwell. I thought maybe I could push myself down the stairwell and break something and go to the emergency room and get some pain meds.

I hurried down the hall and stood over the top, but I couldn’t throw myself off. It was carpeted. I might just bruise, not break. I couldn’t jump. My eyes fogged over with tears that didn’t stream. I never knew how serious it had gotten until it had gotten serious.

That's exactly how it is.
posted by exlotuseater at 6:19 PM on April 5, 2005

After reading the story, I think anyone would have to be crazy to inflict this on themselves, so the story wouldn't cause anyone to go out and order some dried pods

It might, but I think stories like this, and movies like Trainspotting which show the darker side of abuse help more than hurt. If you have not been lucky enough have a good friend or relative steal your shit, lie, try to commit suicide, you know, all that and much, much worse, then these stories are all you have. This guy isn't even that bad off, yet. If it is real, and it sounds pretty real, then it will get worse before he either dies or gets scared enough to get straight. The article is a nice first step, but his heart isn't in it. He's going down again and the next time might be fatal. I hope not, but don't kid yourself. This shit it bad, much badder than you can imagine, and this guy is only in the first or second ring of Hell. It gets so much worse. God I hope he gets straight.
posted by caddis at 6:41 PM on April 5, 2005

Supposedly you can make a tea out of morning glory seeds, too, if they've been cracked open.. Very eye opening!

Very harsh high. Worse come-down than meth. Preparing morning glory seeds for a decent experience ain't as simple as cracking them open - petroleum ether extraction is a better idea.
posted by Jimbob at 7:28 PM on April 5, 2005

This guy's story is pretty bleak, but it could be a lot worse. Last year there was a high-profile case in Christchurch, NZ (the city where I was born, although I'm in no great hurry to ever go back there) involving another poppy-tea addict. His name was Shannon McComb, and he lived on the street because a house fire a few years previously had left him terrified of being inside. Both of Shannon's hands were badly burnt trying to rescue his best friend from the fire, and they never really healed right, so he was in constant pain. Every week he would spend his dole money on bulk poppy seeds from the supermarket, which he soaked in plastic ice cream container with water and citric acid. Apparently it helped him deal with the pain, but I doubt it would have been too long before the crap killed him. That is if two teenagers hadn't beaten him to death for kicks.

The world is not a very nice place.
posted by Soulfather at 7:36 PM on April 5, 2005

Wait, there was a bad side to this story? I was too busy orderin poppy pods from ebay after the first couple paragraphs to finish the article.


*nods.* *drools.*
posted by shmegegge at 7:51 PM on April 5, 2005

No nodding, please.
posted by caddis at 8:03 PM on April 5, 2005

My rheumotologist switched me from Celebrex (actually, I insisted because of the Cox-2 concerns) to a stronger, old, NSAID that I hadn't heard of. And he also said, "Hey, your pain is very bad. Have you thought about hydrocodone?" I said, yeah, I take it occasionally when it's really bad, but I've avoided it in a more general sense. But he said that my pain and stuff was easily bad enough to justify it. So, I've been taking a small amount every day for two months. That and the nsaid have turned the clock back about four years; I can walk a lot more than I could.

Anyway (and I know this means jack shit to many of you who're experienced with opiates), it's been sorta interesting. It's not a high, but then they say that if you have pain, the opiates don't cause a high, they relieve the pain. I feel just slightly fuzzy, and I don't like it.

I'm kinda worried about getting addicted to pain pills, so I'm wary. I may stop and just try the nsaid alone. Oh, also, I waited like four days after my scrip ran out to get it refilled, and I felt not very good, like I had the flu. (Actually, I did that this month two; it's been a couple of days since I last took it and I was gonna wait a few to get it refilled and see how the nsaid works alone. This time I haven't felt as bad. But I did start taking less than what was prescribed on my own initiative last month.) I bet coming down when you've got an addiction really, really sucks.

They say that there's still nothing found as effective for severe pain as the opiates and synthetic analogs. It's a shame there's such a potential for abuse and a lot of doctors are resistant to prescribing them because the DEA looks carefully at it.

I've known a few former junkies; not well, though. I've not known anyone while they were using. So I admit that years ago when I saw Trainspotting, it made an impression on me. As far as I was concerned, that was an anti-drug movie, not the opposite. Funny that the conservatives didn't see it that way.

Sorry I missed that someone had already mentioned that Harper's magazine story.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 8:45 PM on April 5, 2005

Like Ebay is the only place you can get poppy pods?
My sister had opium tea a few years ago. She made it with with pods from a friend's garden. It made her nauseous and gave her a headache. This has been my experience with many of the "lesser known" plant highs. San Pedro, Morning Glory--barf-o-rama.
posted by apis mellifera at 8:49 PM on April 5, 2005

but I'd be thinking there's not much in the way of hallucingenic properties to poppies....more analgesic/sedative

But when on serious painkillers/opiates, you don't really sleep at all (see the article), and its the sleep deprivation that leads to the hallucinations, especially when right on the edge of consciousness (the "nods").
posted by ChasFile at 9:23 PM on April 5, 2005

I'm kind of astonished that there's been no discussion here of what I found the most amazing aspect of the article -- the fact that this guy was a born druggie, desperately seeking hallucination years before he could score anything.

I had a girlfriend (who occasionally did a bit of alcohol, weed, or mushrooms -- nothing like this guy) who described a similar search, and like this guy, attributed it to an attempt to escape the suburban existence. Seems a plausible pretext.
posted by Aknaton at 9:26 PM on April 5, 2005

"the fact that this guy was a born druggie"

I'm pretty convinced of the "addicts have different kinds of brains" theory. Dopamine? Dunno. My last GF was a drug and alcohol abuse counselor, later for the state criminal justice system, went to prisons, etc. I don't know, there's something about an addictive personality. You can kinda tell.

And, yeah, just the amount I'm taking isn't helping me sleep, the reverse. I don't sleep as well, even though I'm drowsy.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 9:30 PM on April 5, 2005

Do you think this Bitter Pill would work? Only for Heroin? He hopes for Requiem from the Dream.

I would try laudunum and read Frankenstein...that would be fun, perhaps Romantic?
posted by schyler523 at 9:48 PM on April 5, 2005

Hey Ethereal_Bligh, I've taken an occasional -- rare -- opiate for migraines, arthritis, and after major dental work, and for me opiates do provide a mild high as well as pain relief; I also enjoyed snorting H the few times I got it free. That's partly why I stick to aspirin most of the time. (Ibupropen is okay as a change-up, acetaminophen is contraindicated for one who likes booze, and the newer NSAIDS and arthritis drugs screw my stomach up something fierce.) On the other hand, if only all the damn media outlets hadn't made such a big deal out of "hillbilly heroin" my attitude might be different; these days it's not addiction I fear so much as withdrawal, so I wouldn't want to find they're taking oxycodone off the market and still be a junky -- especially since smack dealers won't honor my health plan. (Those who could easily get a month's supply of horse for a $10 co-pay on an indefinite basis and still resist strike me as rather strange.)

But I don't think I'm as addiction-prone as a lot of people I've known. E.g., once I put my mind to it I did quit smoking five years ago. I did use nicotine patches for a few months, but I keep meeting people who claim they didn't work for them; it must be that kind of person you're talking about. Even so, I probably won't be ordering any Craft Supplies anytime soon.

On preview, yeah schyler, "bupe" sounds good for those who are already addicts (till they find out what's wrong with it; I was suprised to find out Ultram/tramadol was addictive after all), but I wonder if it also kills pain? It's also getting so I might not mind getting addicted to a pain killer that didn't get me high. And akhnaton, yeah, that guy reminded me of me: I first smoked catnip when I was 12 or so -- it's too bad it didn't work for me like it did for my cat or I might have never bothered getting hooked on Camels.

(Yes, I'm blithering: I celebrated Baylor's win with a shot and a beer -- and Old Rasputin is 9% ABV.)
posted by davy at 10:12 PM on April 5, 2005

Oh, I'm definitely an addictive personality...that is exactly why I'll never try Heroin. Truthfully, I'm addicted to Metafilter right now, with the occasional beer/cranberry vodka (too many of these and out come the American Spirits.) I've been much worse, but at least I've had the sense to stay away from meth, coke, and heroin...those would be a death sentence. Besides, alcohol and cigarettes are socially acceptable...to a point (read:unless you are homeless.)

Hope this guy makes it or flames out with a bang...leave something incredible behind my friend.
posted by schyler523 at 10:24 PM on April 5, 2005

*snork*

huh? wuh? yeeeeahhhh. cooool. won't nod... swear.... won-....

zzzzz.
posted by shmegegge at 11:05 PM on April 5, 2005

I'm not saying that I ever tried opium with Jim Hogshire in NYC's East Village about 10 years ago, because that would have been illegal.

But if I had, it would have been with what Jim might have called the "Julian Lennon French Press Method." If such a method even existed, it might involve crushing the poppy heads in a French Press expresso maker and turning it into tea.

And if you can imagine drinking tea like that, then you can imagine how much it might make you vomit, just as soon as you drink it, and throughout. And how some of that vomit might not get discovered in that East Village apartment until months later. How the owner of that apartment might ask something like "Jesus, what the hell happened that night?"

If such a night ever happened.

But whether such a night ever happened or not, that particular question would be impossible to answer.
posted by cloudscratcher at 11:09 PM on April 5, 2005 [3 favorites]

"and for me opiates do provide a mild high as well as pain relief; I also enjoyed snorting H the few times I got it free."

Hmm. Interesting. I've taken much stronger doses of, IIRC, a synthetic in the past and the "high" then wasn't a good feeling so much as just being dopey. Taking one 5/500mg vicodin every few hours only very, very slightly affects me but is damn good at helping with the pain. For now, anyway. But also, I've had five or so kidney stones and have been given some serious IV stuff. Those times, it felt "good" but I think it felt good mostly for getting rid of the mind-boggling pain of a bad kidney stone.

So I wonder if I'm not experiencing what other people are. No drug has really made me enjoyably "high" in the sense other people talk about it. And everything seems to make me slightly ill, actually. I wonder what injecting H would be like, that's a whole 'nother ballgame.

Anyway, I have read in several places that the brain of a person in a lot of pain reacts differently to opiates than someone who's not. I sorta thought that was true from my experience. Maybe not.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 11:13 PM on April 5, 2005

"And if you can imagine drinking tea like that, then you can imagine how much it might make you vomit..."

A few years ago I wanted to use kava to help me sleep and I bought very high quality kava straight from one of the islands that grow it. I bought a lot of it, actually. Like several pounds. And it was all unused and wasted because I could not find a way to ingest it that didn't make my entire body react with revulsion. It's alkaloids, isn't it? Those are so bitter, so noxious, after all those are evolutionary strategies the plants have used to discourage herbivores. Also, I think I'm a "supertaster" and am particularly sensitive to bitterness.

So many psychoactive things you can make a tea will result in something you think that only a crazy person. or someone without taste buds, would drink.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 11:19 PM on April 5, 2005

The brain has the natural capacity to unload limitless amounts of natural opiods. This is how people do major surgery with acupuncture while staying awake. If you can harness your own brains ability to fight pain, this is best. Drugs damage the brains ability to make natural pain killers.

I think the person in this article messed up his brain chemistry long before the poppy seeds so he is literally unable to stop. He has a degenerative disease.
posted by stbalbach at 11:45 PM on April 5, 2005

Drug diaries are pretty much a dead art form. Article summation: "You can order poppy pods from Ebay" + Naked Lunch / Trainspotting dreck. Of course the story is presented in PTA-friendly 'go straight to hopeless addiction, do not collect $200' format as well. Not to encourage anyone, but it's quite possible to get all loopy on opiates and not have to go through withdrawal hell. Hint : don't do it every day. I guess addiction is exactly not having such control over your usage. But addiction is the exception rather than the rule, and it bothers me that this pattern of story is seen as having some sort of grungy edge of hard reality. Maybe HST's passing has me in the mood for a fun Fear and Loathing angle on the subject. Although in the end, I return to where I started : It's hard for me to imagine any fascinating new drug adventure stories being written at this stage in the game.

This story comes across as yellow journalism ala "someone think of the children and shut down the evil ebay poppy cartels". It loses some credibility to me for its nods to nutmeg and morning glory seeds. And, if it is true, it's amazing how addicted to hard drugs this guy got without ever, umm, scoring any drugs. Seriously, he's going to throw himself down the stairs on the off chance he'll break a bone and they'll prescibe pain meds at the hospital, but it never occured to him to wander downtown and buy some junk? It's just incredulous, like he missed a few steps on the path from adolescent tinkering and curious ebayer to junkie in hell. As if crafted to sell the not-so-hidden message of how horrible this lurking ebay poppy problem is.
posted by Bokononist at 12:57 AM on April 6, 2005

And it was all unused and wasted because I could not find a way to ingest it that didn't make my entire body react with revulsion.

Interesting. I actually like the taste of kava, though I've only had it freshish, while in Fiji. Not chewed up and spat out into the bowl by someone else, though, trad-style. That's just nasty.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 1:48 AM on April 6, 2005

Bokononist, you will burn in hell for your sinful ways.

/american
posted by telstar at 2:00 AM on April 6, 2005

Bokononist wins.
posted by dabitch at 3:33 AM on April 6, 2005

Bokonist spoke my mind. Every reliable source I've ever heard speak on the subject has said: opiates are not nearly as dangerous or addictive as alcohol. That bit is all nonsense that supports the ward on drugs.
posted by Goofyy at 5:04 AM on April 6, 2005

Not to encourage anyone, but it's quite possible to get all loopy on opiates and not have to go through withdrawal hell. Hint : don't do it every day.

I agree completely. There are more people than some may realize that can use addictive substances in a casual and recreational way and still live normal lives.
posted by melt away at 5:32 AM on April 6, 2005

After reading the story, I think anyone would have to be crazy to inflict this on themselves

You might think that, but you'd be mistaken. There are still people who take overdose amounts of nutmeg and wonder why they feel like they've been dragged behind a moving train for a week. As long as there is consciousness, there will be those who try and subvert it.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:33 AM on April 6, 2005

and for me opiates do provide a mild high as well as pain relief

Same here - when I was recovering from a nasty operation to stop my lungs collapsing all the time they had to take away my self-administered morphine drip thingy, because, even through the general anaesthetic haze on awakening, I'd worked out exactly when and how often I could press the button to keep myself permanently out of my face. Great fun, but unfortunately they noted my enthusiasm, and I've had to suffer under crappy painkillers in subsequent treatments.

Hint : don't do it every day

That doesn't really work out too well for a lot of people, you know. I'm with you on the dubious tone and oddness surrounding the bloke's keen DIYing rather than just 'phoning his dealer, though.
posted by jack_mo at 6:51 AM on April 6, 2005

As someone who had an unlimited access to codeine before he could go out and drink (hey, weekends were boring) -- I never had any problems near this. Maybe it was because I knew the addiction potentials... but while going on the nod is fun it's not something you'd want to do all the time. Maybe some of us have that drive that keeps us from becoming addicted because it seems no matter what I do, I never get the "next day itch" I hear people talk about. Doing something just a couple times enough was more than enough. Something about being coked up/doped up several days in a row just isn't appealing -- I have other things to do.

I really can't think of any substance I've done when I've wanted to do it immediately again. I guess word to the wise, if you wake up the next day thinking how great it would be to relive the night before -- you probably should lay off the drugs.
posted by geoff. at 9:39 AM on April 6, 2005

In America, knowing the properties of a plant makes it illegal to posses, while the lack of such knowledge makes it legal.

Yes, Draconian drug laws do make for some interesting grey areas, don't they? There's a similar quandry with "research chemicals."
posted by afroblanca at 9:54 AM on April 6, 2005

I enjoy Kava once in a while. I was exposed first to it by the teas you'll find in natural supermarkets [Yogi Tea makes one], but the best was at the Fijian Independence Day here in Atlanta, where it was prepared in a traditional and ritualistic manner. Not a bad taste to me, but definitely not for everyone.

I don't think I'll be trying the opium tea anytime soon, though.
posted by vanadium at 10:05 AM on April 6, 2005

Anyway, I have read in several places that the brain of a person in a lot of pain reacts differently to opiates than someone who's not. I sorta thought that was true from my experience. Maybe not.

I think the fun of this whole "how do drugs work" stuff is that we really haven't got it straight how consciousness works, so messing with it is pretty much all experimental. I know someone who basically just feels kind of ill when he drinks - doesn't get why people like it. But he likes smoking pot. MJ just makes me feel kinda cloudy, so it doesn't appeal all that much to me, but I assume for those who love it, the dimensions of that "cloudiness" are somehow different - it's not a completely unrelated feeling, but it just works in a way which makes it more enjoyable for them.

Opiate pain killers are extremely pleasant to me, and I have no trouble seeing how someone could become quite attached to them. At the same time, I have no doubt there are people capable of not becoming attached. Part of that really is a choice - there's a certain amount of romanticism attached to drug habits, and people are often more addicted to the habit than the substance (this guy admits columbus day got him through the worst of the physical problem but mentally he wasn't ready to give up...)
posted by mdn at 10:26 AM on April 6, 2005

Ahh...Research! One of my favorite things to do!
posted by schyler523 at 11:37 AM on April 6, 2005

Just a note. In the US (but not the UK) It is definetly illegal to sell dried poppy pods, because they contain Morphine and Codine.

Poppy seeds on the other hand are legal. As are mushroom spores.
posted by delmoi at 1:22 PM on April 6, 2005

Opiate withdrawals vary from person to person, and depend on several factors (the type of opiate, dosage, duration of use etc.). Withdrawals aren't pleasant, but it's not quite the hell it's portrayed as in movies. Imagine a flu with a bit of intermittent nausea, diarrhea and craving for the drug. These symptoms can be reduced with advil/tylenol, anti-diarrheal medication, and xanaxes and pot if you have them. Going cold turkey is not dangerous to a person that doesn't suffer from heart disease. The bad symptoms generally last about three days, but it takes five or six days until you're completely out of the woods. Kicking isn't really as hard as it's made out to be, but it's hard overcoming the psychological aspects of addiction.
posted by Devils Slide at 2:02 PM on April 6, 2005

This interchange of hallucinogenic/sedative/analgesic terminology reminds me how all the psychoactive drugs can actually have opposite effects, depending on doseage etc. It's like having 2 beers can make you feel elated and talkative but add 2 or 3 more and you become weary and get impaired coordination - alcohol is a downer. Same with valium - I've seen it given I.V. and people get all twitchy and irritable to start with until it's sedative/relaxing qualities kick in. Whereas nicotine is a pure upper - yet we smoke it to 'relax'. The old brain does work in mysterious ways.
On preview...Devil Slide: I disagree. Full on smackheads have a really terrible time coming off it. And I think it lasts a couple of weeks before vague feelings of normalcy come back.
posted by peacay at 2:49 PM on April 6, 2005

On preview...Devil Slide: I disagree. Full on smackheads have a really terrible time coming off it. And I think it lasts a couple of weeks before vague feelings of normalcy come back.

They may have more severe withdrawals, but it shouldn't last more than seven days (at least the physical symptoms). Opiates/opioids leave your system within a week, but it can take weeks before your mindset returns to it's pre-addiction state. Some teenage addicts can stop doing opiates without any withdrawal symptoms at all (something about the body's constitution changes after the teenage years).

However, methadone is different. That's why most addiction specialists are anti-methadone, because the physical withdrawals can last up to two or three months. So unless they go through rapid detox, most methadone addicts can never get off of it.
posted by Devils Slide at 4:56 PM on April 6, 2005

*...but it can take weeks before your mindset returns to its pre-addiction state.
posted by Devils Slide at 5:05 PM on April 6, 2005

if you wake up the next day thinking how great it would be to relive the night before -- you probably should lay off the drugs

uh-oh.
posted by mrgrimm at 6:51 PM on April 6, 2005

It's like having 2 beers can make you feel elated and talkative but add 2 or 3 more and you become weary and get impaired coordination - alcohol is a downer.

In the course of arguing against over-generalizing descriptions of the effects of various drugs, you overgeneralize.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:30 PM on April 7, 2005

A few years ago I wanted to use kava to help me sleep and I bought very high quality kava straight from one of the islands that grow it. I bought a lot of it, actually. Like several pounds. And it was all unused and wasted because I could not find a way to ingest it that didn't make my entire body react with revulsion. It's alkaloids, isn't it? Those are so bitter, so noxious,

Kava's active ingredient is a lactone. Extracts are available that can be put in gelatin capsules, then swallowed without tasting anything. Muscle relaxation, sociability, sleep aid ensues.

Point being that no matter how "high quality" material you have, lack of knowledge about prep, ingestion can leave you barfing.
posted by telstar at 12:43 PM on April 8, 2005

The internets are a pretty bad habit too, but screw it, just about every day I can come across some sad schmuck to remind me that I seem to be doing a pretty damn fine job of running my life, all things considered. Erowid has a fair complement of cautionary tales of poppy-pod-heads like this. One fellow (whose account I read there) was making midnight excursions around his neighborhood, decapitating people's garden poppies to meet his fix. Ah, junkies.
posted by nanojath at 7:51 PM on April 10, 2005