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Cirque du DeLay?
April 5, 2005 8:40 PM   Subscribe

Watch as the GOP eats its own! Thrill as the media is fed more and more damaging info! Stare in Awe at the inside information calculated to get rid of him! Marvel at the downfall (and eventual Gingrichian comeback?) of Representative DeLay!
posted by amberglow (136 comments total)

 
With GOp control of all three branches of government the rumors of Tom DeLay's demise seem quite premature. I think I have made my feelings about dirty politicians known before, and no fate would be too horrible, yet who will deliver this fate. Perhaps the prosecutor investigating his finance fiasco, but no one else. Death (political) to DeLay.
posted by caddis at 8:46 PM on April 5, 2005


The press hasn't been paying much attention to anything like this lately. But, now they are in full swarm mode and it is going to get worse.
posted by UseyurBrain at 8:52 PM on April 5, 2005


Even Howie Kurtz (Putz extraordinaire and GOP f*ckbuddy) is on it, regarding the especially bad WSJ article trashing him: Turning on DeLay
posted by amberglow at 8:54 PM on April 5, 2005


I wonder if anyone in the Red States will even care.

It's too complicated.
posted by Mean Mr. Bucket at 8:57 PM on April 5, 2005


Wow. What a stupid remark.
posted by ColdChef at 9:00 PM on April 5, 2005


Sorry, ColdChef, maybe you missed the 2004 election?
posted by Mean Mr. Bucket at 9:03 PM on April 5, 2005


Why now? What was the turning point?
posted by unsupervised at 9:11 PM on April 5, 2005


My (admittedly speculative and only semi-informed) take: Delay's grandstanding on the Schiavo mess may very well cost a few Blue-State Republicans their seats (and make it somewhat more difficult for some in places like Florida to fend off challengers). This flurry of revelations smells like payback, and maybe even a willingness (I'm looking at you Karl Rove) to sacrifice what has become for many voters the very nasty public face of congressional Republicanism in order to assure a sufficient mid-term majority. The Senate has been pretty skittish in regards to the White House agenda as of late; Rove needs at least one congressional arm absolutely in his pocket. What better way to do it than by engineering the downfall of DeLay (a liability whose ethical lapses will most certainly be mid-term fodder for Democratic challengers) pour l'encouragement d'auteurs (the message being sent: you march with the WH agenda or we will fuck you up--nobody is too big that we won't sacrifice them.)

Of course, I'm probably just talking out my ass, but there's my tuppence.
posted by Chrischris at 9:12 PM on April 5, 2005


Mean Mr. Bucket, you still fail to see that the result of the 2004 election has somewhat to do with attitudes like this.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 9:16 PM on April 5, 2005


Well, like Josh Marshall said, the White House's thumb probably went from "up" to "down". DeLay is the most corrupt congressman we've had in ages, besides being an incredible son-of-a-bitch.

I'm reminded of Beria. Actually, I'm often reminded of Beria. But Beria was a bad, bad man and Stalin used him in that capacity. He did the dirty work and everyone—everyone—was frightened to death of him. He built a lot of personal political machinery and put everything in place to take Stalin's place when Stalin died. He lasted, oh, less than a week after Stalin's death until they took him and shot him.

The people that wield the hammer and make enemies but cow them into submission never seem to realize how everyone will turn on them and eat them when the moment comes. This may be DeLay's moment. And he, too, is probably wondering, "What changed?"

And I'll be laughing and laughing and laughing as he drowns in his own shit.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 9:18 PM on April 5, 2005


Why is it that Carl Rove can dictate when and why the country gets outraged at what? Why can't we take town the president with all the crap we know he's been a player in?

Why is Amerika being played like an evil fiddle?

DeLay has had this comming for quite a while, but so has most of the administration.
posted by Balisong at 9:20 PM on April 5, 2005


Give it time, Bali--if this is at all indicative, there'll be more to come. We're stuck with Rove's dictates because the media only covers what's spoonfed to them or brainlessly easy to cover, and what benefits those in power doing the feeding. After all, Terri SchiavoThe Pope is the news now.
posted by amberglow at 9:26 PM on April 5, 2005


Maybe Frist next? (although he already flipflopped on the judge thing)
posted by amberglow at 9:28 PM on April 5, 2005


From the NYT article linked above: "The wife and daughter of Tom DeLay, the House majority leader, have been paid more than $500,000 since 2001 by Mr. DeLay's political action and campaign committees, according to a detailed review of disclosure statements filed with the Federal Election Commission and separate fund-raising records in Mr. DeLay's home state, Texas."

He's toast! Twenty bucks says he'll resign this month.
posted by LarryC at 9:36 PM on April 5, 2005


I hope Sensenbrenner somehow goes down with the ship. Is this insane? Is it?
posted by underer at 9:38 PM on April 5, 2005


Chrischris: reporting in from crimson red Jacksonville, Florida... no, I think the Schaivo fight Republicans put up worked in Florida better than it worked anywhere else, at least from what I've seen. This has been an on again, off again front page issue for us for years. There was no outcry when they passed Terri's Law, which I think passed 68-23 in 2003. It provoked a lot of bad memories of the Elian Gonzalez mess awhile ago.
posted by trinarian at 9:42 PM on April 5, 2005


nah. sex and violence in the media is always a safe issue for the GOP (but is totally against free speech, etc). There are so many that could be next--Conyers, Santorum, any religio-fascist...The whole judge thing is key nowadays, maybe. Bush wants to appoint people, so how can they allow all the trashing of the judiciary that's been going on?

I also hear they're starting to muzzle the most extreme extremists in time for the midterm elections (which is a sign they know they're in trouble).
posted by amberglow at 9:43 PM on April 5, 2005


trinarian, are there more rednecks or transplanted Northerners (and old folks) there nowadays? I can't believe it played well with them.
posted by amberglow at 9:46 PM on April 5, 2005


Rove isn't running this show. They'd much rather things be the same as last term. DeLay is going down because he is corrupt as hell and a grand jury is going to be empanelled in Travis County TX (Austin) about his violation of Texas campaign finance laws to fund the Texas redistricting scheme in 2002. The DA, Ronnie Earle already has indicted DeLay's closest political associates and several coroporations. They, in time-honored tradition, are singing like canaries. Earle is then leaking some of the juicy bits so as to weaken DeLay and avoid being labelled a political partisan when the indictments come down. The label won't stick with the public when the dirt comes out.

DeLay will go down. Hopefully later, rather than earlier. That way it will pay off next year.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:52 PM on April 5, 2005


If they find him guilty of campaign finance faux-pas, do you think that they might overturn the redistricting there, and other places? (like Colorado hopefully..)
Or is that just a done deal even if it was a deal done wrongly?
posted by Balisong at 9:56 PM on April 5, 2005


DeLay will go down. Hopefully later, rather than earlier. That way it will pay off next year.
I was thinking the same. I can't stand DeLay, but I want him around long enough to brush some of this slick all over his corrupt colleagues.
posted by underer at 9:59 PM on April 5, 2005


DeLay also had his name taken off the promos/website for an upcoming "Confronting the Judicial War on Faith" conference. (rudepundit has more on it)
posted by amberglow at 10:07 PM on April 5, 2005


Amberglow, I loved your title and phrasing. Clever presentations (Cirque du DeLay! Brilliant!) draw me to posts I'd usually ignore (e.g. politics).

As a Democrat at a 99% Republican school (there were cheers at both Bush wins), I'm seeing mixed reactions to the situation. The Christian conservatives here are getting pissed at the shadier Republicans.
posted by NickDouglas at 10:09 PM on April 5, 2005


underer...tinfoil hat crazy? No. Freaky McWierdsen Crazy? You Betcha.

BTW, i found this on a tangent from underer's link and thought it was hilarious.

Who would Jebus do? David Hasselhoff? Jeff Gannon? The Pope?

Here's to hopin' DeLay gets the Hammer!
posted by schyler523 at 10:13 PM on April 5, 2005


It couldn't have happened to a nicer guy...
posted by clevershark at 10:14 PM on April 5, 2005


this was interesting too: WaPo: Post-Schiavo Questions Await Congress's GOP Leaders-- ... Republican pollster Tony Fabrizio said several national surveys found that 60 to 80 percent of Americans opposed Congress's March 20 intervention in the Schiavo case. ...
Fabrizio said voters "are probably wondering why we can't get deficit reduction or tax reform or Social Security reform as quickly as we got the Schiavo bill" from the Republican-controlled Congress. Because conservative Christian activists were seen as pushing the legislation, he said, "that's a symbol of what your [party's] priorities are, and you'd better show them another symbol." ...


Did they let the mask slip and the true face show?

thanks Nick--a circus really is the best way to describe this, i think--or some Roman spectacle--it's just tragic that what they do has real effects on our lives
posted by amberglow at 10:16 PM on April 5, 2005


place your bets on when/if DeLay steps down as Majority Leader.
posted by pruner at 10:28 PM on April 5, 2005


The old Emperors of Rome had it right, it's all about bread and (media) circuses.
posted by clevershark at 10:34 PM on April 5, 2005


Deficit reduction costs money.

Terry Schiavo was free (from a large scale government expenditure allocation point of view).
posted by effugas at 10:38 PM on April 5, 2005


Mean Mr. Bucket, you still fail to see that the result of the 2004 election has somewhat to do with attitudes like this.

So if elitist Democrats hadn't hurt your feelings, you wouldn't have voted in DeLay, Frist, Santorum and a host of assorted grandstanding slope-browed theocrat scumbags currently dragging their knuckles across Capitol Hill? Doh!
posted by Armitage Shanks at 10:39 PM on April 5, 2005


you forgot "and using the Constitution as toilet paper", Armitage.
posted by amberglow at 10:42 PM on April 5, 2005


amberglow: clarification: I think most people around here thought it was less a red/blue fight than a crusade led by valiant Republicans to stop an evil adulterous husband (who they suspect beat her into her current state) from killing his wife. Most who supported Schaivo's parents, like them, wouldn't even let themselves believe she was vegetative. Their backlash anger seems directed against the judicial system instead of being broadly spread to all liberals and the Democratic party. I don't think this had any effect on the pro-choice/pro-life debate in any other since than "once again, a judge is legislating from the bench."

As per the political demographics of Jacksonville, we're a business town. Not an arts and culture town. We gave you Yellow Card and Limp Bizkit and for that my friends and family apologize. We're an insurance, banking, and finance town with a religious tang. I imagine that attracts a lot of fiscal conservative middle-management types. I wouldn't really call most of Jacksonville "redneck" though it certainly is in some neighborhoods (and on the more rural edges of town). It's actually the upper middle class conservatives who make the most noise. We have a lot of rust belt transplants, particularly from Ohio I notice, and you saw the way that electoral vote went.

I think religion plays the largest role in Jacksonville politics. I consider myself pretty well travelled, but I've never seen so many churches per square mile in any other city. Though we have a megachurch (run by the infamous Jerry Vines), it's primarily hole-in-the-wall nondenominational churches that often have a very evangelical flare. In fact, the house I live in now is the church house (don't ask) for a "Church of God of Prophecy," if that's any statistical indication for you. My roommate tells me they "speak in tongues" and it is thusly unwise to sneak next door on Wednesday nights for free dinner.
posted by trinarian at 10:49 PM on April 5, 2005


Steve@Linnwood: Mean Mr. Bucket, you still fail to see that the result of the 2004 election has somewhat to do with attitudes like this.

So ... if you were going to do something idiotic, like mouthwash with drain cleaner or tattoo your eyelids or vote GOP, and someone laughed at you for being such an idiot, and you went ahead and did it anyway just to show them, are you any less of an idiot?

I'm sorry that this is difficult, but we, meaning the intelligent people of the rest of the world and the USA, are going to continue to call you idiots until such time as you wake the fuck up to yourselves and impeach the bunch of criminal thugs you've handed over your country to. You are in the wrong. It has been repeatedly demonstrated here and in many other places that the GOP in general and the Bush administration in particular is corrupt beyond precedent, its leadership dishonest, cowardly, divisive, cruel and wilfully bent on getting worse, and yet you, meaning you Steve, continue to support them. All because at some point, somewhere, you fell for one of the economic or social con games that they run every day on the gullible American public, and faced with the prospect of admitting to yourself that you were conned, you prefer to insist that no, it's the "liberals" who are somehow wrong. How are we wrong? I suppose it depends on what "wrong" means. To me it means "contrary to the facts", but I guess if you're willing to vary that definition, you can protect yourself for a long time from having to honestly make an assessment of your beliefs and actions. To me wrongness implies an obligation to change one's mind if present with contrary facts, but you chimpchumps call that "flipflopping", and you sneer, jeer, and fling your poo at us for it. Wake up, grow up, and apply the critical thinking you used to be taught in school, by the liberal teachers your fellow-travellers have enthusiastically tried to drive out of your educational system, to the actions of the Bush administration.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 10:55 PM on April 5, 2005


nice...
posted by trinarian at 11:06 PM on April 5, 2005


Howie Kurtz is a Putz Extraordinaire?

Funny, he's not on our roster.

Sure you're not thinking of Dickheads Esquire?
posted by shmegegge at 11:10 PM on April 5, 2005


aeschenkarnos - wow.
posted by notsnot at 11:15 PM on April 5, 2005


By the way, am I the only one who shudders a bit whenever a drudge report article is mentioned?
posted by shmegegge at 11:15 PM on April 5, 2005


shmegegge: i've been reading Drudge for years... as this story confirms, he's generally an equal opportunity muckraker. He just wants to break the story first. It's what he does. It's the way of his people.
posted by trinarian at 11:19 PM on April 5, 2005


yeah, it's certainly not any partisanship I'm concerned about. I just shudder because of that whole "no journalistic integrity or accountability" thing.
posted by shmegegge at 11:23 PM on April 5, 2005


I consider myself pretty well travelled, but I've never seen so many churches per square mile in any other city.

Apparently, you never rolled through Colorado Springs...
posted by Balisong at 11:23 PM on April 5, 2005


this is just our relatively industrial downtown, Bali...
posted by trinarian at 11:28 PM on April 5, 2005


Dang, well I guess you win, lucky guy...
posted by Balisong at 11:29 PM on April 5, 2005


and a zoom of my neighborhood...
posted by trinarian at 11:32 PM on April 5, 2005


Makes you wonder how they can keep solvent when there's a church for every 4-5 people in town, doesn't it..?

How much property taxes do they pay? Oh, that's right, they don't.. it's sluffed off to others wether you go to church or not.
posted by Balisong at 11:35 PM on April 5, 2005


Go aeschenkarnos!
posted by Rumple at 11:37 PM on April 5, 2005


I was surprised to find that my roommates father had actually *bought* the church he now ministers. I don't think he did it as a business investment or anything, but I can understand buying just the building... but how do you buy a church amd it's accompanying congregation?

I'd go so far as to say at least >25% of the non-residential developments I've seen built in Jacksonville over the past six years have been churches.
posted by trinarian at 11:39 PM on April 5, 2005


We're an insurance, banking, and finance town with a religious tang

*cough*NAVY!*cough*
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:54 PM on April 5, 2005


hat tip atrios:

my favorite part was when he paid his daughter and wife 500,000 since 2001 for "fund-raising fees" and valuable services

and then it gets better!
"Ferro, [delay's daughter after a fundraising] party, told associates that a lobbyist poured champagne on her while she was in the hot tub."



i love it! please let there be a leaked video of that one!!!
posted by stratastar at 12:08 AM on April 6, 2005


A female version of Tom DeLay getting doused with poodle-water in a hottub? Dude, that is the last video I ever want to see....
posted by maryh at 12:37 AM on April 6, 2005


trinarian: I'm not sure that the difference is as dramatic as you make it out to be. For example, while Jacksonville fills the first page of its Google results in just 1.1mi compared to the wider 1.8mi radius for Colorado Springs, liberal ol' Berkeley, CA fills its first Google page within a radius of only 1.2mi as well.

Granted, there are tons of non-Xtian results returned for Berkeley, but I think there are lots of houses of worship everywhere there are people, period. It's definitely much less homogenous (and somewhat less dense) in a place like Berkeley though.
posted by DaShiv at 12:38 AM on April 6, 2005


I have been to Berkeley, and I have been to Jacksonville... and I have seen what my Great Google Avatar has said, and he's got my back, DaShiv :-)

Look at that neighborhood link I gave again, compare the density, and realize that probably 80% of those churches might as well have Jerry Falwell at the helm every Sunday telling these poor folks the End is Near. Every earthquake is an eschatological sign and the next Pope just might be the first horseman. Mickey has some creative competition on our fair sandbar.
posted by trinarian at 1:07 AM on April 6, 2005


I was responding to your statement here:

I consider myself pretty well travelled, but I've never seen so many churches per square mile in any other city.

There are 100 results within a 1.1mi radius of your Jacksonville listing, and 100 results within a 1.2mi radius of my Berkeley listing. My point was that if you're talking about density, the results are actually pretty similar (the composition of those results is a different story of course). I'm not sure how Google generates its maps, but they definitely didn't place all 100 results for the first page on the Berkeley map (despite almost all of them listing valid addresses). I worship the God of Numbers, not maps. :)

As for the "Jerry Falwell at the helm every Sunday" issue: I specifically mentioned that places like Jacksonville are religiously "more homogenous" in that way. Xtian churches are less conspicous here in Berkeley as well, since I've walked past many of the buildings listed on that map without realizing they were churches since they didn't have enormous crosses out front or anything (most just have a simple sign).

It seems to me that there are churches, synagogues, etc everywhere, but for them to take a dominant role in the community (including political roles) is a fairly regional phenomenon.

Ironically enough, several years ago I spent some time in Jacksonville myself, for a romantic tryst of all things. Thankfully, she was a college student.
posted by DaShiv at 1:41 AM on April 6, 2005


aeschenkarnos gets a big gold wonderchicken star, for meritorious ranting above and beyond the call of duty!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 1:52 AM on April 6, 2005


Chrischris, a very minor correction, because I was genuinely puzzled as to what you meant by that French expression: the correct quote is pour encourager les autres - "Voltaire’s suggestion (in Candide) that from time to time the British find it desirable to shoot an admiral “pour encourager les autres” [to encourage the others]."
posted by Turtle at 1:52 AM on April 6, 2005


you still fail to see that the result of the 2004 election has somewhat to do with attitudes like this.

yes, they voted for the incompetent guy who dragged America, using fake evidence, into an unnecessary war she is now losing, for the guy who turned America's massive surplus into a mountain of debt just to spite the Democrats.
if you're right (I think, as usual, you aren't) Bush voters are even dumber than Mr Bucket thinks.

and anyway it's still a lot of gloating over a 51-49 win

bah.
back on topic: as EB pointed out, DeLay has always been a hatchet man, nothing more. and hatchet men make a lot of enemies and usually end up badly. especially if they're as shamelessly corrupt as he is. I mean, even the poor-hating, torture-loving cheerful militias at the WSJ editorial page can't bring themselves to defend poor DeLay now
posted by matteo at 3:46 AM on April 6, 2005


And I'll be laughing and laughing and laughing as he drowns in his own shit.
I'd wait and see. Unless he does serious jail time, it all comes out to a book deal, guest spots on fox, and a peachy lobbying job. That's still got my life beat by a lot.
posted by a_day_late at 4:51 AM on April 6, 2005


Oh, I forgot: aeschenkarnos, that there post is a keeper. Thanx.
posted by a_day_late at 4:55 AM on April 6, 2005


There are so many that could be next--Conyers, Santorum, any religio-fascist...

Amberglow, I think Conyers is one of the good guys - one of the best guys, actually.
posted by tizzie at 5:18 AM on April 6, 2005


Ah, I found it. You mean Cornyn, I bet - the guy who thinks that judges deserve violence in their courtrooms.
posted by tizzie at 5:40 AM on April 6, 2005


"Unless he does serious jail time, it all comes out to a book deal, guest spots on fox, and a peachy lobbying job."

Oh, yeah, spoil my mood, ruin my exaltation. Damn you.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 5:42 AM on April 6, 2005


It's too complicated.

It was. Real people don't really get the kind of stuff he was being accused of before. But putting your wife and kid on the payroll at $4k a month? THAT everyone gets. The exterminator will be exterminated.


he's generally an equal opportunity muckraker.

Not so much, actually. Sure when there's blood in the water, he'll join the feeding frenzy no matter who's wounded, but he'll pick at every little lefty could-be scandals (or try to make one stick) and ignores all the similarly low level righty could-be scandals.
posted by CunningLinguist at 5:47 AM on April 6, 2005


Oooo, this is fun: "To receive his award as "Physician of the Year," Dr. Rudolph Mueller learned he would have to make a $1,250 contribution to the National Republican Congressional Committee. He also learned he wasn't the only "Physician of the Year." "

The fee included an appearance by Delay and Bush. White House coffees anyone?
posted by CunningLinguist at 6:00 AM on April 6, 2005


Dear Democrats,

Proving the Republicans stupid does not mean that you are automatically smart.

Please learn this and adopt rhetoric appropriately. You might do better in the elections.

Best of luck.
posted by Dagobert at 6:12 AM on April 6, 2005


Awsome way to post, amberglow!

aeschenkarnos couldn't be more right; we are all to blame for the nonsense that is our current administration. We sit and watch these criminals change all the rules to accomodate their agendas daily and rarely is enough noise made to remedy anything. I doubt seriously DeLay will pay for any of this. So fucking sad.
posted by LouReedsSon at 6:17 AM on April 6, 2005


Ah, I found it. You mean Cornyn, I bet
I did--sorry about that. I definitely meant the thug who threatens judges (altho there's more than one in the GOP)

Speaking of DeLay's daughter (does he have more than one?), the current print issue of Maisonneuve has a story about a guy who goes to all the GOP lobbying shindigs during the convention hear last summer-- and who flashes the stage and the crowd during the Kid Rock show? That's right--DeLay's daughter.

And altho DeLay won't go to jail or anything, getting him out of power can only help--all of us.
posted by amberglow at 6:22 AM on April 6, 2005


here
posted by amberglow at 6:23 AM on April 6, 2005


Houston Chronicle is protecting and lying about poll results for their local thug: ...This article in the Houston Chronicle currently says: "Yet 45 percent said they would vote for someone other than DeLay if a congressional election in the 22nd District were at hand; 38 percent said they would stick with him."

The funny thing is that it *used* to say: "Yet 49 percent said they would vote for someone other than DeLay if a congressional election in the 22nd District were at hand; 38 percent said they would stick with him." ...

the poll is specifically a Houston Chronicle poll, performed by Zogby. It was their poll. they simply, flat out, unabashedly changed the result of their own poll - which then got cranked out through the system via AP etc. so now we have people like John Aravosis (i heart john) saying merely "support for DeLay is slipping" rather than something more serious. its so blatant, and so shameless. ...

posted by amberglow at 7:05 AM on April 6, 2005


Dear Democrats,
Proving the Republicans stupid does not mean that you are automatically smart.

Yeah, but it's a good start. Somewhat of a joke but more to the point: what's wrong with exposing stupid ideas? And, if you do, it exposes the people that put them out there. Or, maybe you mean there is too much of that and not enough counter ideas. That's valid but so much to do and so little time.

And altho DeLay won't go to jail or anything, getting him out of power can only help--all of us.
I'll agree, but only to a point. These guys tend to get re-circulated into a new life, helping their cause all over again in a different way and getting rich in the process. I mean, take Oliver North, for example. How did that little bit of treason work out for him? Serious jail time is the only way to deal with the problem.

On preview: As we see by your own post, Amber, you can't count on public opinion shaming them into submission.
posted by a_day_late at 7:25 AM on April 6, 2005


S@LMean Mr. Bucket, you still fail to see that the result of the 2004 election has somewhat to do with attitudes like this.


Yes, we do get that red states voted for Bush because they are tired of being looked down upon by more prosperous and educated states.

What red states don't seem to get is that we look down on them for their destructive reactiveness replacing rational election-- not because we are anti-Southern, anti-poor or anti-working class.

I look down specifically at Texas because they consistently elect yahoos, ignoramous louts and corrupt populists. If the red states voted in a rational republican, I would respect them. What we get is a corrupt moron people love because he talks like Bubba the preacher. At least that's why I hate the ass states, I mean the red states.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 7:27 AM on April 6, 2005


Mrs. Ferro has managed several of her father's re-election campaigns for his House seat.

Which I first read as :

Mrs. Ferro has managed several of her father's re-election campaigns for his House cat.


I was confused.
posted by delmoi at 7:27 AM on April 6, 2005


BTW-- great post, Amberglow.

and Delay:

.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 7:27 AM on April 6, 2005


DaShiv, Berkeley is a bad example -- every maor denomination has a seminary in Berkeley, which means that there are a ton of churches there to serve seminarians and the people who teach them, not necessarily the native Berkeley-ites.
posted by hob at 7:35 AM on April 6, 2005


Well, 49% - or possibly 45% - would apparently vote for Delay's housecat over Delay. I hate cats but I consider that a wise political stance, personally.
posted by CunningLinguist at 7:36 AM on April 6, 2005


How much was the cat getting per month?
posted by bashos_frog at 7:42 AM on April 6, 2005


Of course, DeLay will go right into consulting, Fox commentating, a book deal, and millions of income--but at least he's not hijacking Congress anymore, or changing rules to cover his ass re: ethics, or redistricting districts...let him exterminate in the private sector for a while.
posted by amberglow at 7:43 AM on April 6, 2005


DeLay should step down as majority leader, but he should remain a senator unless criminal charges prove to exist in some form other than wishful blogoechochamberthinking. He should step down because he causes problems for his own party as a the leader and focus on working behind the scene.

He will remain a senator because his constituents support him. He won't lose an election because his electorate dislikes his politics like the first senate party leader to lose his spot in an election in a half century.
posted by dios at 8:06 AM on April 6, 2005


DeLay should step down as majority leader, but he should remain a senator

Rep. DeLay would, of course, have to be elected to the Senate before he could remain a Senator.
posted by COBRA! at 8:12 AM on April 6, 2005


dios' bullshit is especially funny when it is full of embarrassing factual mistakes, thanks for the laugh
posted by matteo at 8:22 AM on April 6, 2005


He should maybe remain a Rep, but not party leader--if only because if he resigns now, we just get another Repub in that seat. If he stays in, he'll be defeated in 06, and remain in the news as a thorn in the GOP's side.
posted by amberglow at 8:24 AM on April 6, 2005


(they're going to force him entirely out tho--this is much worse than Lott's racism)
posted by amberglow at 8:25 AM on April 6, 2005


let him exterminate in the private sector for a while.

...while some other shithead takes his place to kill us some more, ever so completely and without regard. Sadly, little to nothing will ever change until...

We meet in the square at dawn, boys. Bring fire, rocks, sticks, etc.
posted by LouReedsSon at 8:26 AM on April 6, 2005


"...But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you."
posted by cows of industry at 8:29 AM on April 6, 2005


Yes, I know that he is a representative. I don't know why I used the term senator. But I appreciate matteo's pettiness. Thanks!
posted by dios at 8:50 AM on April 6, 2005


Americans are a funny lot. Blowjobs get them riled up, but being fucked over by corrupt, pretend Jesus-freaks is OK.

And Cheney's son-in-law just got promoted as well.

These assholes have no shame.
posted by bardic at 9:22 AM on April 6, 2005


What bardic said. In spades.
posted by cows of industry at 9:34 AM on April 6, 2005


"Watch!... Thrill!... Stare in awe!..."

Why? I already know Tom DeLay is an asshole. I don't need more unpleasantness.

But fine, whatever. Have fun torturing yourselves.
posted by koeselitz at 9:54 AM on April 6, 2005


dios: But I appreciate matteo's pettiness.
This considering the content of your post was "Daschle Daschle nyah nyah nyah!"
posted by fleacircus at 10:00 AM on April 6, 2005


Ahem, most states arn't red or blue, but raspberry ripple:



This election convinced me that the EC should be abolished for fostering regional bigotries, and also for hurting state and local politics.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 10:56 AM on April 6, 2005


Proving the Republicans stupid does not mean that you are automatically smart.

True, but the schaudenfreude is delicious!

Personally, I hope the GOP tries to hold onto DeLay, and that this turns into an ever-larger black eye for them.

aeschenkarnos- Great comment, but you're not saying anything to Steve that he hasn't heard here a million times before is varying degrees of greater or lesser (usually) eloquence. You'll rarely get anything more than a one-line snark out of him. Don't waste your energy.
posted by mkultra at 10:59 AM on April 6, 2005


I wonder if anyone in the Red States will even care.
It's too complicated.


Different people have different values and opinions. The fact that they don't *gasp* agree with yours doesn't mean they lack the ability to understand the issues. Your attitude does show a small part of why the left lost the election.

trinarian, are there more rednecks or transplanted Northerners (and old folks) there nowadays? I can't believe it played well with them.
posted by amberglow


You might not be able to grasp this amberglow, but some southerners are not rednecks, and some transplanted northerners are. I'm always amazed at how someone who comes across as so openminded and worldly (you live in nyc afterall) doesn't have the ability to see that you are exactly what you despise, the attitudes perfectly aligned with the rednecks you can't stand.

I'm sorry that this is difficult, but we, meaning the intelligent people of the rest of the world and the USA, are going to continue to call you idiots until such time as you wake the fuck up to yourselves and impeach the bunch of criminal thugs you've handed over your country to.
posted by aeschenkarnos


Thank you so much for showing that ignorance is not a democrat/republican or liberal/conservative issue. It transcends all people. Your hate filled simplistic rant makes the point better than anything I could say. I am indebted to you.
posted by justgary at 11:10 AM on April 6, 2005


oh, word!

justgary, I don't know what your position is w/r/t democrat/republican or liberal/conservative but it seems to me you've misinterpreted what drove aeschenkarnos to say that: he seems to me to be venting a great deal of pent-up anger about the state of the USA, and the way it keeps slapping its nasty tentacles all over the place, fucking up most everything it touches. Many people outside the USA who are paying any kind of attention to your government are shocked at the behaviour they see. Shocked by the fact that this sort of behaviour went on during Bush's first administration, and shocked beyond belief that you people would re-elect this thug's puppet.
The behaviour of the Bush Administration, and segments of the Republican party are similar in vein to the kinds of things your government has used as impetus for pre-emptive regime toppling elsewhere in the world.
That's where his rant comes from.
And I find in inconceivable that -- though you may be on-board with so many of "The Right's" points of view (be you a civil libertarian, economic conservative, anti-communist, etc.) -- you could honestly decide that Bush & Co. were the right choice to lead your nation.
It's that "simplistic": do you trust that fool (Bush) or not? None of the other "choices" presented to the American Voters in Nov.2004 was anything like this kind of bad...
posted by Al_Truist at 11:30 AM on April 6, 2005


The behaviour of the Bush Administration, and segments of the Republican party are similar in vein to the kinds of things your government has used as impetus for pre-emptive regime toppling elsewhere in the world.posted by Al_Truist at 11:30 AM PST on April 6

This is nonsense. This assertion isn't even based on any form of reality.

And I find in inconceivable that you could honestly decide that Bush & Co. were the right choice to lead your nation.

You just remade justgary's point for him. That is an extremely myopic viewpoint. If you can't even grant that the majority of Americans had sane reasons to vote the way they did, then you are delusional and shouldn't be offering up defenses of other people.
posted by dios at 11:43 AM on April 6, 2005


Al_Truist: what I think that justgary is picking up on the tendency for a lot of people who claim to be on "the left' to use the last election as an excuse to wear their own prejudices and desires for class warfare on their sleves.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 11:49 AM on April 6, 2005


way to go in changing the subject, justgary and dios--yet again. Does Rove send you a check for that? The fact is that Northern Florida/Panhandle votes Redneck. Southern Florida does not. Too bad if you don't like it, but it's true. It's true because of the minorities in So.Fla., and the transplants and retirees from the Northeast that move to So.Fla..

Now back to DeLay--should he go to jail or Guantanamo?
posted by amberglow at 2:06 PM on April 6, 2005


(it's really sad--every post about GOP misdeeds/crimes/treason/etc gets derailed or the subject changed by dios and friends--pitiful that they can't talk about criminal activity when it concerns their party)
posted by amberglow at 2:07 PM on April 6, 2005


amberglow, if anyone derailed the thread it was aeschenkarnos when he went on his rant. I merely responded to the derail that he threw out here about how screwed up everything is. So don't accuse me of derailing this thread and take your righteous indignation and... uh... you know what.

GOP misdeeds/crimes/treason/etc gets derailed
Funny that a guy who would insert the terms "Abu Ghraib" or "Gannon" in threads constantly, even when they are about other things entirely, would comment on other people derailing.

pitiful that they can't talk about criminal activity when it concerns their party
You are the biggest party hack here, so YOU of all people, should avoid chastising people for not addressing their own party's shortcomings. And, fyi, I'm not a republican... I just play one here because I am a little to the right of democratic underground.
posted by dios at 2:32 PM on April 6, 2005


aeschenkarnos: wow. Good wo/man.

but how do you buy a church and it's accompanying congregation?

Sayyy... that sounds like a good business plan in the making.
Will the scapegoating stop with DeLay? I bet it does... it'll be just enough to appease America. The rest of the crooks, cheats, and liars will stay in power.

Dios made me laugh. Delay as Senator.

And a word to all Americans: things aren't going to get any better in your country until you start electing sensible, sane, and citizen-focused representatives. Quit electing the corporate whores, the power-grabbing liars, and the money-lusting cheats!
posted by five fresh fish at 2:39 PM on April 6, 2005


Dios, per the first part of my post that you quoted, I site:
Torture and humiliation of POWs? Check.
Unreasonable detainment of people without charge or access to legal counsel? Check.
High-level officials possibly involved in shady money maneuvering for their own profit? Check.
That's the kind of behaviour I'm talking about, and that is rooted in reality. [I take it that direct links to related news stories isn't necessary. We'll take it as read that torture and humiliation @ Abu Ghraib happened; that Guantanamo exists and does business in it's illegal fashion; and that Tom DeLay is going to be investigated for this recent disclosure.]

Per your second quote: you said my opinion is extremely myopic, and that's entirely subjective, of course. But right here, in this thread, you have evidence (some of it -- like aeschenkarnos' rant -- very, very passionate) that I'm not alone in this opinion. <snark>I guess that it is myopic: forgetting that people are capable of being intelligent and still making such an egregious choice is "narrow and lacking in foresight and discernment."</snark> I stand guilty.

And KJS: is it incorrect to tell someone who's done something really fucking dumb (like, oh, say, driving drunk) that they've done something really fucking dumb, even if no one's (yet) been killed? Well, a lot of people seem to think (and I'm clearly one of them) that re-electing GWBush is a lot like putting a drunk GWBush** behind the wheel of a car.
**anything I could link to here would just be silly, right?
posted by Al_Truist at 3:10 PM on April 6, 2005


animal farm
posted by crunchland at 3:59 PM on April 6, 2005


crunchland, that's the best comment I've seen in this entire string.
posted by cows of industry at 4:08 PM on April 6, 2005


Al_Truist: And KJS: is it incorrect to tell someone who's done something really fucking dumb (like, oh, say, driving drunk) that they've done something really fucking dumb, even if no one's (yet) been killed? Well, a lot of people seem to think (and I'm clearly one of them) that re-electing GWBush is a lot like putting a drunk GWBush** behind the wheel of a car.

Oh, I don't have a problem with telling people they did something dumb. I don't have a problem with saying that electing Bush the first time was dumb, or that reelecting him was dumber still. I do have an extremely deep problem with the fact that people ignore the actual political geography on the ground, in order to justify their own regional and geographic prejudices.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 5:16 PM on April 6, 2005


five fresh fish
We don't live in a free country anymore. We live in a fascistic corporate religious construct where the majority toil in meaningless jobs knowing that every four years they are turned loose with the false hope that their votes actually make a difference in a system that is clearly and inarguably rigged. Perhaps when americans can stop eating so many big macs and put down the credit cards to go shopping to take their minds off their futile lives they will be able to change things. As things are currently, I seriously doubt any kind of change will take place in this generation, possibly the next. Perhaps when the shopaholics are willing to storm Washington D.C. we'll see a change, not until then. The american flag flies over this land, but it is irreversibly tarnished and irrelevant.
posted by mk1gti at 6:12 PM on April 6, 2005


First step to change is to become an activist, mk1gti.

That doesn't mean you have to run out and shoot a cop in the name of putting an end to corporate irresponsibility, mind you. Indeed, please don't.

But it does mean getting vocal with friends and acquaintances and even strangers. It means demanding better. It means calling things out for what they are, and no waffling on it.

That's been the biggest problem with the socially liberal: they can't take a concrete stand for anything. There's always this waffling "well, I suppose that may be true for you" or "you might have a point" and other inanities.

There are some things that are right for society, dammit, and it's time to demand that government act in the best interest of citizens and not corporations.

People need good healthcare. People need good education. People need a safe work environment. People need time for family and for self. People need a decent income. People need a healthy global environment.

Actively speak out in support of these things. Contact your representatives and tell them these things. Spread the word in your workplace, in your school, in your church, in your day-to-day life. And encourage these people to do the same.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:59 PM on April 6, 2005


much more on the Russian stuff he's tangled up in
posted by amberglow at 9:16 PM on April 6, 2005


and DeLay defends himself, blaming the "liberal media" (even tho all the info released has been done so by people who were in the know--Republicans)
posted by amberglow at 5:09 AM on April 7, 2005


Before, Republicans just scared other people. Now, they're starting to scare themselves.
When Dick Cheney tells you you've gone too far, you know you're way over the edge.
...But there's some skittishness in the party leadership about the Passion of the Tom, the fiery battle of the born-again Texan to show that he's being persecuted on ethics by a vast left-wing conspiracy. Some Republicans are wondering whether they need to pull a Trent Lott on Tom DeLay before he turns into Newt Gingrich, who led his party to the promised land but then had to be discarded when he became the petulant "definer" and "arouser" of civilization. Do they want Mr. DeLay careering around in Queeg style as they go into 2006? ...
--Maureen Dowd, NYT
posted by amberglow at 5:13 AM on April 7, 2005


and RudePundit's on it: ... before mixing with the debris left behind in the metaphoric goo that was Tom DeLay. DeLay is one bullying evil motherfucker - he's threatened to wreck the careers of children of Republicans who don't vote with him. And an evil piece of roach shit like DeLay ain't likely to go gentle into that good night. When he starts to rage, rage, against the dying of the light, you can bet he wants to drag as many people down with him as he can.

Shit, his lackeys have said as much in the last couple of weeks. "Any politician that hopes to have conservative support in the future better be in the forefront as we attack those who attack Tom DeLay," said Morton Blackwell of the bullshit front organization, the Leadership Institute ...

posted by amberglow at 5:29 AM on April 7, 2005


oh, and that "called fake by the Right yet written by the legal counsel for Republican Mel Martinez" Schiavo memo? a DeLay connection, of course : ...Now that Brian Darling of the Alexander Strategy Group has been penned as the author, it connects the dots to why Tom DeLay also used the talking points. The Alexander Strategy Group is a firm created by former DeLay chief of staff Ed Buckham (and yet another place from where DeLay's wife has cashed checks). Tom DeLay used the talking points at least on three occasions: ...

(oh, what a tangled web we weave...)
posted by amberglow at 5:35 AM on April 7, 2005


We don't live in a free country anymore. We live in a fascistic corporate religious construct where the majority toil in meaningless jobs knowing that every four years they are turned loose with the false hope that their votes actually make a difference in a system that is clearly and inarguably rigged. Perhaps when americans can stop eating so many big macs and put down the credit cards to go shopping to take their minds off their futile lives they will be able to change things. As things are currently, I seriously doubt any kind of change will take place in this generation, possibly the next. Perhaps when the shopaholics are willing to storm Washington D.C. we'll see a change, not until then. The american flag flies over this land, but it is irreversibly tarnished and irrelevant.
posted by mk1gti at 6:12 PM PST on April 6


Brother, you need to turn off the computer and step outside. You are spending WAY too much time on Kos or Michael Moore's website or wherever you hang out. You have just become a caricature of need for the "why do you hate America?" question. If you would get away from the internet for a couple of weeks... maybe go on vacation or just got for a walk to the park and see a movie... I think you would find that things are nearly as bad as whatever echo chamber you have been spending too much time in says it is. I willing to concede that a lot of people have legitimate gripes about this country and administration. But I find your little rant absolutely laughable, if it wasn't so revoltingly naive.
posted by dios at 7:50 AM on April 7, 2005


dios,

I would suggest to you that you take a similar vacation outside the USA and talk to people to get their views on the country you've been defending so vigorously against the rants on this thread...might give you some much-needed perspective, too.
posted by Al_Truist at 10:11 AM on April 7, 2005


Why would I care what some foreign person perceives the state of my country to be in? Foreign opinion on what is happening internally in this country is irrelevant. While I would be interested in their opinion vis-a-vis our foreign policy, their opinion on domestic policy of the United States means less than 1/10th of 1 shit. Personally, I don't mind that we are disliked abroad if I think our foreign policy goals are justified (and I do). But one thing is for certain: their views on how we handle our domestic business are completely irrelevant because I have first hand experience with it.

Now go back and read mk1's rant; it is entirely a domestic rant about America. Foreign opinion means nothing in the analysis of mk1'r rant. So your point is irrelevant.

I don't need a foreign person's perspective over whether or not I am free. Or eat too many Big Macs or spend too much money. Or whether my voting system is rigged. Or any other of these hyper-hysterical nonsense that mk1 was railing about. I live here. I walk around every day. I utilize my freedom of choice every day. I voted a couple months ago and it mattered. Why the hell would I need a foreign perspective on those things? You can tell me that this a fascistic state, and because every single day is evidence that it is not, I know that the person making that claim is either full of shit or just doesn't know what the words mean.
posted by dios at 10:33 AM on April 7, 2005


at the risk of taking more troll-bait...

dios, you might want to look up the concept of "frame of reference" before you defend your unimpeachably "objective" view of what's going on in your nation.
posted by Al_Truist at 11:35 AM on April 7, 2005


Well, fine Al_Truist. If you are going to be prick and just call me a troll instead of engaging me in a dialogue, then don't bother ever responding to me. If you are willing to engage in a dialogue, then don't start off with being such an ass and calling me a troll because we disagree. It is, in my opinion, pathetic behavior on your part.
posted by dios at 11:42 AM on April 7, 2005


dios must be the most insecure man alive.
posted by sonofsamiam at 11:50 AM on April 7, 2005


I'm not insecure. I'm just finished discussing things with people who indicate from the outset that they will just lazily rely on name-calling instead of pursuing a dialogue.
posted by dios at 12:06 PM on April 7, 2005


I calls 'em like I sees 'em.
posted by sonofsamiam at 12:12 PM on April 7, 2005


Dios: You don't care what other people think about you? I mean, that's the message that I'm getting from your comment. That you don't give a shit about anyone but yourself. Is that fair? I mean, I just want to accurately characterize your views.

The objection to that is that American policy affects the entire world, even American domestic policy. We're all in this together, Dios. Everyone on Earth has a vested interest in other people. But hey, prove me wrong.
posted by klangklangston at 12:43 PM on April 7, 2005


As a second note, Dios, he didn't call you a troll. And if you want to have any sort of rational, non-name-calling discussion, you could always take a look at the link he put up.
posted by klangklangston at 12:45 PM on April 7, 2005


klang, I never said that I didn't care about other people'e opinions. In fact, I clearly stated that foreign opinion should matter (to an extent) with regards to our foreign affairs. But I still maintain that foreign opinion has not value in domestic matters. A foreign person telling me "your vote doesn't count" or "you don't have freedom" is a worthless opinion because (a) they don't vote here and (b) they don't live here. They get their news through secondary resources which may or may not be accurate. I LIVE here. I voted. It counted. I go out at the end of work everyday and do anything I want to do.

To convince me that I don't have liberty, one is going to have to point to legitmate real life examples that affect every day American life. To my knowledge, there are none. So it is going to be practically impossible for someone who doesn't live here to describe to be a way in which I don't have liberty when they don't know what day to day life here is about. Lazy and hyper-hysterical rantings about fat American consumer pigs who are too stupid understand how they live under a tyranny are completely unpersuasive to me since I have no evidence of that.

As a second note, Dios, he didn't call you a troll.
posted by klangklangston at 12:45 PM PST on April 7


eh? Then what the hell is this?

at the risk of taking more troll-bait...

posted by Al_Truist at 11:35 AM PST on April 7

posted by dios at 1:09 PM on April 7, 2005


hmmm... Back in the mid-90s, wasn't DeLay awfully vocal about opposing action to stop Serbian genocide in Kosovo? And wasn't the Russian security establishment one of the biggest defenders of Serb interests?

I wonder if this subject happened to get mentioned between tee shots on that junket?

posted by amberglow at 3:45 PM on April 7, 2005


Viva Las Vegas !!!(2000) House Majority Whip Tom DeLay (R-Tex.), legendary on Capitol Hill for his aggressive efforts to cultivate corporate interests, hit on a new way of rewarding his friends last weekend, flying more than 30 lobbyists to Las Vegas for a golf tournament and a round of partying.

The weekend, aimed at raising money for the whip's political action committee, was also described by DeLay aides as a reward to corporate donors who helped underwrite his activities at the Republican National Convention in Philadelphia this summer. DeLay raised roughly $1 million from corporations to help pay for chauffeur service for GOP lawmakers, a Blues Traveler rock concert and other activities.

posted by amberglow at 4:07 PM on April 7, 2005


It’s shameful: To protect DeLay, GOP disables official conduct committee ... (Newsday, March 29)
In a deplorable attempt to keep House ethics watchdogs off the case of Rep. Tom DeLay (R-Texas), their ethically-challenged majority leader, Republicans have unceremoniously dumped committee members judged insufficiently loyal and changed the rules of engagement. In the process, any honest attempt at ethics enforcement has been abandoned. ...

posted by amberglow at 4:11 PM on April 7, 2005


Drop The Hammer
posted by amberglow at 7:10 PM on April 7, 2005


All right; I'm jumping in, just to see what happens.

A foreign person telling me "your vote doesn't count" or "you don't have freedom" is a worthless opinion because (a) they don't vote here and (b) they don't live here.

Well, dios, never mind that hypothetical foreign person. I'm an American. I was born here. It says so on my birth certificate and passport. I live here, and I vote here. Maybe you'll listen to my opinion when I say: Your vote doesn't count. You don't have freedom.

To convince me that I don't have liberty, one is going to have to point to legitmate real life examples that affect every day American life.

I'll take the low-hanging fruit here. In the innermost sanctum of your own home, you do not have the liberty to take the leaves and buds of the plant Cannabis sativa and smoke or ingest them for your own personal enjoyment, even when doing so affects not a single living being other than yourself, without the risk of imprisonment. That's one easy example. Can you justify it?
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:22 PM on April 7, 2005


Here's another low-hanger: it is no longer permissable to protest freely against the government. There was a time such was allowed almost anywhere; now it is only allowed in designated, limited "free speech zones," apparently not infrequently allocated out of sight of the protested event! That is a shocking loss of freedom.

And another: it is no longer permissable to travel freely within the country. You must have proof of ID at all times. If you are found without ID, serious consequences will arise and will not be pleasant. That is a horrific loss of freedom.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:59 PM on April 7, 2005


Dios: He said "At the risk of..." meaning he was giving you the benefit of the doubt by responding, you hostile little goober.

And basically, you're begging the question by assuming that when foreigners cite instances in which American liberties have been curtailed (and I hope that you're not arguing that they haven't been), that they don't have the knowledge to speak on the topic accurately. You're concluding that your freedoms haven't been curtailed because you're being lectured by people whose freedoms haven't been curtailed.
posted by klangklangston at 8:46 AM on April 8, 2005


In the innermost sanctum of your own home, you do not have the liberty to take the leaves and buds of the plant Cannabis sativa and smoke or ingest them for your own personal enjoyment, even when doing so affects not a single living being other than yourself, without the risk of imprisonment.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:22 PM PST on April 7


Pot is illegal. It always has been. How are we less free now because you still can't smoke pot. This is about America becoming less free. Try harder.

Here's another low-hanger: it is no longer permissable to protest freely against the government. There was a time such was allowed almost anywhere

This is incorect. Every person in this country still has the freedom to protest. If you want to stage a protest, there has always been time, place and manner restrictions on protests. The freedom of speech that protesting is protected under still exists in this country. But people never have had the right to speak anywhere and anytime. Protestors who cause a disturbance have always been arrested. Look at the protestors at the convention in Chicago back in '68. Do you think they were allowed to just yell there without reprecussion? Or were they dragged out? You never had the right to protest anywhere you wanted to and cause a distrubance whenever you wanted to without limit.

And another: it is no longer permissable to travel freely within the country. You must have proof of ID at all times. If you are found without ID, serious consequences will arise and will not be pleasant. That is a horrific loss of freedom.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:59 PM PST on April 7


This is preposterously incorrect.

You're concluding that your freedoms haven't been curtailed because you're being lectured by people whose freedoms haven't been curtailed.
posted by klangklangston at 8:46 AM PST on April 8


I read this sentence five times, and I am not sure what you are saying. If you will rephrase it, I will try to respond.

And yes, I do not think my civil liberties in the classical sense have been curtailed in any serious manner. Civil liberty is a concept distinct from "freedom to do anything I want." As I sit here right now, I cannot name one way in which my life has unreasonably less civil liberty or rights than in the late 90's. If you can, then I will listen to you and consider what you have to say.
posted by dios at 9:21 AM on April 8, 2005


dios: Pot is illegal. It always has been.

Ahem. The government's war against marijuana started in the 1930, ending up with classification as a schedule 1 drug in 1970.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 11:53 AM on April 8, 2005


Yes, but what he's saying is that it's through no action of BushCo. that you've lost your liberty to use it.
posted by crunchland at 12:01 PM on April 8, 2005


Well, that was such an out-to-lunch reponse that I'm withdrawing from the conversation.

It's folks like you, Dios, that make the destruction of American democracy possible.
posted by five fresh fish at 12:19 PM on April 8, 2005


Allies and friends of House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (Tex.) have concluded that public attention to his ethics is unlikely to abate for months to come, and they plan to try to preserve his power by launching an aggressive media strategy and calling in favors from prominent conservative leaders, according to Republicans participating in the strategy sessions.

The Republicans said the strategy combines leaks from DeLay allies about questionable Democratic trips and financial matters; denunciations of unfavorable news stories as biased, orchestrated rehashes; and swift, organized responses to journalists' inquiries.
--WaPo today

Great! Let them keep DeLay in the news til the midterms. It's perfect for us. (and note that no WH people are quoted in the article at all.)
posted by amberglow at 6:21 AM on April 10, 2005


This is incorect. Every person in this country still has the freedom to protest. If you want to stage a protest, there has always been time, place and manner restrictions on protests. The freedom of speech that protesting is protected under still exists in this country.

What happened in New York directly contradicts your statement. People were sweeped off the street for just walking down the sidewalk (Not just protesters, but even republicans and people on the way to work). Then, they were incarcerated in inhumane conditions and not given legal representation or a chance to be released. This, even after a judge ordered that it stop.

So, what is someone who wants to exercise his or her free speech right going to do now? Just showing up and protesting (or even just watching the protests) can put you in position where the government can make your life a miserable hell.

The government's actions here was designed to make people not want to protest. It was wrong in Chicago in 1968 and it was wrong in both Miami and New York last year.
posted by UseyurBrain at 6:35 AM on April 10, 2005


Newsweek is on it: With Friends Like These...
A lunchtime chat with a lobbyist close to Tom DeLay suggests he may be headed for hotter water

posted by amberglow at 10:16 AM on April 10, 2005


And Novak is doing his part in the GOP's spin: ...But this remarkable case of that august newspaper fishing for an op-ed piece makes it appear part of a calculated campaign to bring down the single most powerful Republican in Congress. The Democratic establishment and left-wing activists have targeted DeLay as the way to end a decade of Republican control of the House.

Ironically, this campaign's intensity may protect DeLay from Republicans who in their secret hearts would like to see the sometimes-overbearing Texan fall. No GOP politician wants to be the handmaiden of DeLay's Democratic detractors. Last Wednesday's closed-door caucus of House Republicans gave DeLay a standing ovation. ...

posted by amberglow at 6:18 AM on April 11, 2005


And Newt himself is even speaking against him: ... former House Speaker Newt Gingrich said it's time for DeLay to stop blaming a left-wing conspiracy for his ethics controversy and to lay out his case for the American people to judge. ... "DeLay's problem isn’t with the Democrats; DeLay's problem is with the country," Gingrich continued. "And so DeLay has a challenge: to lay out a case that the country comes to believe, that the country decides is legitimate. If he does that he's fine." ...
posted by amberglow at 10:37 AM on April 13, 2005


Fundraisers for a political committee founded by House Majority Leader Tom DeLay routinely solicited donations by identifying legislative actions that prospective givers wanted, from video gambling to lawsuit limits, memos show. ...
posted by amberglow at 1:05 PM on April 13, 2005


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