Comments on: Why won't homos let us hate and just accept their Hell-bound fate?

Why won't homos let us hate and just accept their Hell-bound fate?

schroedinger — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 02:33:16 -0800

April 14, 2005: The Day of Truth. On April 13th thousands of students will don black-and-red t-shirts and remain quiet for the ninth Day of Silence in order to "recognize and protest the discrimination and harassment--in effect, the silencing--experienced by LGBT students and their allies." But this year the Alliance Defense Fund, "a legal alliance defending the right to hear and speak the Truth [yes, "Truth" is capitalized] through strategy, training, funding, and litigation," plans to add a twist to the occasion by following up with its so called Day of Truth in order to protest the homosexual agenda and promote their interpretation of Christianity. Though in their "Hostile Questions" section they claim they're not Day of Silence copycats, in addition to the silent treatment like their DoS foes students who register will receive t-shirts and explanation cards to distribute to inquiring minds, albeit with a slightly altered message. But will it draw participants? Well, Clint Armstrong can't wait--he staged a protest of his own last year.

By: schroedinger

schroedinger — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 02:43:29 -0800

Oops. Missed this. The Day of Truth kids may not actually remain silent. Under What is the Day of Silence? in the Common Questions section, they say blahblahblahendevilhomosexualagendapromotion "Unlike the Day of Silence, the Day of Truth does not encourage students to engage in activities that are likely to disrupt the school's academic mission." Damn homo troublemakers!

By: AlexReynolds

AlexReynolds — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 02:47:44 -0800

"We're not a hate group, but we don't believe this kind of event [Day of Silence] should be in schools," [Armstrong] said. "Our motto is to allow people free speech, and that speech should apply to both sides." Seems the irony of his words is lost on him. I suppose the First Amendment only applies for the morally uptright.

By: Joey Michaels

Joey Michaels — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 03:05:44 -0800

It is interesting to see this FPP back to back with this one. Of course, the only one of these four events that is nationally recognized is the National Day of Prayer.

By: three blind mice

three blind mice — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 03:32:14 -0800

ADF Hostile Question Number 5 Who's behind this? Aren't they just some sort of religious group trying to force their views down our throats? god forbid.

By: orthogonality

orthogonality — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 03:36:04 -0800

What passes for objective journalism at PlanetOut (last link in post):

Though his Web site insists that homosexuality is "unnatural, immoral and unhealthy," Armstrong, a letterman wrestler and a polite speaker, cloaks his protest in First Amendment and equal time rhetoric.

What, let me get this ~~straight~~ gay -- "Though his Web site insists [that he thinks homosexuality is wrong]" this guy "cloaks" his peaceful anti-gay protest in "First Amendment... rhetoric"? Shit, silly me, I thought that the First Amendment was all about anybody saying whatever he believes. I didn't realize it became mere "cloak[ing] rhetoric" just because I or anyone else personally disagree with the message. Thank god PlanetOut is standing up for unbiased journalism and for the rights of everyone, gay or straight, pro- or anti-homosexual, to stand up and speak what he believes.

By: alumshubby

alumshubby — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 03:36:15 -0800

And Pilate asked, "What is truth?"

By: moonbird

moonbird — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 04:00:50 -0800

Ok, I'll admit it, we gays have been told to spread non-Truth since day one. It's right there in the manual, after subverting marriage and pissing on the church. How did they get a look inside our secret doctrine? Drat, foiled again! Well, I guess it's time for us to release the sex slaves and follow sweet baby Jeebus. On to redemption! And, if the Truth weilding fellow is a wrestling type, it could be that he's come close enough to peckers-in-tights that the only thing keeping him from oral is a massive Christian PR blitz telling the world he's not gay. Sorry if all that's a bit harsh, but I'm really at the tipping point here with the Fundies.

By: Dunvegan

Dunvegan — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 04:38:46 -0800

When bad logic and ideology eats itself alive... Let me see if I understand the Day of Truth position...

364 Days of the Year:

Day of Silence:

NOT

Is that distant whirring sound I hear possibly the anguished spinning of Ghandi and Martin Luther King, Jr. in non-violent posthumous protest? Well then, the Day of Truthies do have a point. How dare *those* two, the usual "meddlers and outside agitators," continue to advance their non-violent expression agenda? You know...the one they borrowed from *that liberal Jewish guy* that literally "spent his life" shoving His radical agenda about moral conscience down the throats of Christians!*

Some proponents of nonviolence advocate respect or love for opponents. It is this principle which is most closely associated with spiritual or religious justifications of nonviolence, as may be seen in the Sermon on the Mount when Jesus urges his followers to "love thine enemy," in the Taoist concept of wu-wei, or effortless action, in the Buddhist principle of metta, or loving-kindness towards all beings, and in the principle of ahimsa, or non-violence toward any being, shared by Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism. Respect or love for opponents also has a pragmatic justification, in that the technique of separating the deeds from the doers allows for the possibility of the doers changing their behaviour, and perhaps their beliefs. The Christian focus on both non-violence and forgiveness of sin may have found their way into the story of Abel in the Qur'an. Liberal movements within Islam have consequently used this story to promote Islamic ideals of non-violence. -- Non-Violence Defined, From Wikipedia

By: radiosig

radiosig — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 04:56:47 -0800

oh -- god -- the sarcasm --

By: biffa

biffa — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 05:48:18 -0800

both sides What are these sides? The side that is protesting that gay people shouldn't be oppressed and the side that thinks they should? Is that really how that man self-identifies?

By: C17H19NO3

C17H19NO3 — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 05:48:52 -0800

My school has a Gay-Straight Alliance club, and they are ridiculed, harassed, and threatened all the time. Of course, my school is made up mostly of bigots, but I admire how LGBT students put up with the stupidity of others every day of the school year.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 05:50:38 -0800

One of the fundemental problems in a liberal democracy, and with liberty in general, is that true freedom allows for acts which are purposed to negate freedom. For example, if the flag of the United States truly stands for the right to free expression, burning the flag must be legal, perhaps even encouraged. This is an opportunity for gays and their allies to gently be the bigger people by explaining two things to those who participate in the "Day of Truth": the paradox inherent in allowing the Christian group to speak out against the liberty of gays; and the lack of moral grounding in the "Day of Truth" activities. While, granted, high schoolers who are homophobic may not respond like rational agents when confronted with compassion, the onus is upon gays and their allies not to allow this to get them incensed. Not because what the Alliance Defense Fund is doing is right, but because this is a great opportunity to engage them from a position of tactical advantage. It's hard not to look like an asshole when you're preaching intolerance and you are gently tolerated by those you're railing against. So welcome this. Arm yourself with a decent knowledge of the Bible (the previous Atwood Kansas post had some good ones), and be polite. Essentially, the Alliance Defense Fund is trolling. Meet them with the calm kindness that you would show a barking dog to quiet it.

By: gimonca

gimonca — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 06:05:19 -0800

Sorry, but I'd take that barking dog to the vet to be put down.

By: digaman

digaman — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 06:42:24 -0800

I hear that the suicide rate is high among young Christians, who are beaten, ridiculed, and even killed every day for bringing their Bibles to school. Thousands of them a year are thrown out of their own homes by abusive parents for bearing witness to the gospel, and their prayer groups are regularly harassed, even by school authorities. Many Jewish kids who are mistaken for Catholic become the target of brutal violence, and if a pious youngster confides in a trusted teacher that he or she has been reborn in Jesus Christ, they may be told that their faith can be cured by psychiatric intervention or religious counseling. Some schools have banned all extracurricular clubs to prevent a single Bible-study group from being formed. I feel really sorry for young Christians. They turn on the TV and all they see are Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, and Hindus, with the occasional token Christian thrown in for comic relief or added color on a reality show. It must be a very lonely way to grow up.

By: ChrisTN

ChrisTN — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 06:43:01 -0800

And, if the Truth weilding fellow is a wrestling type, it could be that he's come close enough to peckers-in-tights that the only thing keeping him from oral is a massive Christian PR blitz telling the world he's not gay. ::Spit take:: Goddammit...now I'm going to be envisioning peckers in tights all day long. Gee, *thanks* moonie. And yes, of course, these jerks have the right to protest the Day of Silence in our liberal democracy. Just like, if they were clever, the LGBT supporters would find some way to subvert that protest...peacefully, of course.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 06:53:55 -0800

::Spit take:: Goddammit...now I'm going to be envisioning peckers in tights all day long. Gee, *thanks* moonie. Poor baby. I'm now hearing the phrase to the tune of that song from that Mel Brooks movie. I hope you are satisfied. As for the anti-gay protestors, yeah yeah, they have their free spech rights, too, but their motives are so transparent and their lack of thought so obvious that I'm not losing any sleep. The world is full of assholes and there are more important ones to worry about.

By: trondant

trondant — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:01:21 -0800

I'm confused. Will these people actually shut the fuck up for an entire day or not?

By: Dunvegan

Dunvegan — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:14:15 -0800

Which *these people* are you referring to, trondant? *Those* "these people"...or *Them* "these people"?

By: clevershark

clevershark — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:17:29 -0800

My brother (who is gay) has a good laugh whenever the phrase "gay agenda" comes up. Is that like a pink DayRunner?

By: fungible

fungible — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:27:57 -0800

I admit it. I'm biased. I can't stand Jesus freaks. Just reading that "Hostile Questions" page made me throw up a bit. Isn't there some country we can ship these people back to?

By: clevershark

clevershark — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:29:36 -0800

On second thought this reminds me a bit of the political books that came out in the past few years. Al Franken had his "Rush Limbaugh is a big fat idiot", and Michael Moore his "Stupid white men", so what does the right come up with? "Michael Moore is a big fat stupid white man" (whose at-best derivative author will live on in obscurity). I pity the reactionaries, though, as their lives are so empty and devoid of meaning that they must let those they dislike set the agenda for them.

By: nofundy

nofundy — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:41:41 -0800

Sorry if all that's a bit harsh, but I'm really at the tipping point here with the Fundies. posted by moonbird at 7:00 AM EST Welcome to my world. :-) posted by digaman at 9:42 AM EST Very well put digaman. Thanks. May I borrow it sometime? Just remember folks, God Hates Shrimp!

By: emanation

emanation — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:42:34 -0800

trondant: In one version of a "day of truth" last week in California, they regrettably didn't appear to shut up at all. The "Day of Silence" participants OTOH do remain silent for the whole school day. clevershark: I think there's even a book with the name "The Homosexual Agenda," if I recall correctly... Scary. Anyway, also here's Betty Bowers's version of "The Homosexual Agenda."

By: emanation

emanation — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:47:01 -0800

Sorry about the second link. Here's the correction.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:05:32 -0800

Gimoca: Yeah, except that's the response that the Alliance folks want you to give them. They're trying to provoke a response that makes gays and their allies look intolerant and "militant." Don't give it to them. Be patient and just a whiff condescending. Be polite. Be firm. Make them look like dangerous lunatics in comparison. That's worth so much more than calling them dangerous lunatics.

By: digaman

digaman — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:21:28 -0800

nofundy: Thanks. You may reuse my post flagrantly, but with attribution. I am a writer. ;-)

By: orthogonality

orthogonality — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:27:11 -0800

digaman writes "I hear that the suicide rate is high among young Christians," Niiice. Flagged as "Fantastic".

By: bardic

bardic — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:27:56 -0800

Republicans... my head assplodes every time I read about these people.

By: trondant

trondant — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:41:32 -0800

Dunvegan: them *these people*. Which reminds me, I really need to mail that envelope I got.

By: pyramid termite

pyramid termite — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:48:11 -0800

i know the clint armstrong type ... spoiled middle class kid whose folks moved to gull lake high school school district so he wouldn't have to go to school with the minorities in battle creek or kalamazoo high schools ... i KNOW this kind of person, i KNOW the kind of things they say to each other in private, i KNOW the kind of oppression and cruelty, or indifference to oppression and cruelty they are capable of ... they disgust me i live in the area ... i know exactly what i'm talking about here

By: tkchrist

tkchrist — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:49:17 -0800

Wouldn't the "homosexual agenda" conversely imply there is a "heterosexual agenda?" Because if there is I keep missing the meetings. And I'd like to point out the little known fact that when John Wayne and Jim Neighbors were secretly married in a voodoo ceremony on Maui in 1968 it was the launching point for International Gay Agenda. Mission Number One: Make sure husbands had to hold their wives purses while she was in a fitting room at The Bon Marche. That is how The Gay is spread. Cleaver sneaky homos. They are like Ninjas that way. I hear that the suicide rate is high among young Christians Wishful thinking.

By: Radio7

Radio7 — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:53:02 -0800

You know, I really feel for Clint: as he says, it's not like heteros get to 'show off their sexuality on a special day' - merely every day! ...Quick, everyone - Assume your favorite position! (As an aside: with that level of ignorance, something tells me Clint aint gettin' laid by nobody no how.)

By: bardic

bardic — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:58:20 -0800

It's funny how Christians seem to be more obssesed with gay sex than gay people are.

By: gurple

gurple — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:03:12 -0800

I find this fascinating, and telling: I am speaking the Truth to break the silence. I believe in equal treatment for all, and not special rights for a few. I believe in loving my neighbor, but part of that love means not condoning detrimental personal and social behavior. I believe that by boldly proclaiming the Truth, hurts will be halted, hearts will be healed, and lives will be saved. Nowhere on their silly little card that kids are supposed to pass out does it actually mention homosexuality, or directly mention what, exactly, it is that they're against! They have to use double talk because their position is utterly indefensible.

By: clevershark

clevershark — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:24:48 -0800

Looks like this "day of truth" can be written off as so much reactionary kookery, much like the "straight pride" college events typically sponsored by Young Republican groups .

By: BoringPostcards

BoringPostcards — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:24:48 -0800

"There aren't days when heterosexuals get to parade around and show off their sexuality," said Armstrong I'm reminded of when I was a kid, and I asked my mom, "Why is there a Mother's Day and a Father's Day, but not a Children's Day?" She rolled her eyes and said, "Honey, EVERY day is Children's Day."

By: eustacescrubb

eustacescrubb — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:43:58 -0800

Firstly: digaman rules. Secondly: I believe in equal treatment for all, and not special rights for a few This doublethink reminds me of some lines from Wendell Berry: from his smile they understand that the fortunate have a right to their fortunes, that the unfortunate have a right to their misfortunes, and that these are equal rights.

By: PeterMcDermott

PeterMcDermott — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:08:25 -0800

"I hear that the suicide rate is high among young Christians" Not to worry. We're in the process of setting up Sodomites against Suicide all over the country. Soon, those poor young Christians will be able to come along to one of our meetings, get down on their knees and experience true bliss at the ministering hands of our Queer salvationists. > Just remember folks, God Hates Shrimp! But if that Mary Magdalene story is true, his only begotten son just loved shrimping.

By: ddf

ddf — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:57:46 -0800

High School kids in Cali will be seen wearing sweatshirts which read, "No Gay" in front, and "Homosexuality is Sin". They could have at least made them sensicle statements. The back makes it sound like the two have an equivalent meaning and the front just sounds Neaderthalic. I can't respect people who have no subtlety.

By: telstar

telstar — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 12:08:58 -0800

Why do the words "Fundamentalist Agenda" seldom see print?

By: phearlez

phearlez — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:45:54 -0800

ddf - maybe it's a Rasta outreach attempt. "No Woman No Cry"-esque. Interesting that they take the time in their 'hostile questions' section to quote scripture regarding reaching the Lord only through Jesus but leave out their one pathetic & vague little citation against homosexuality. Someone send them an answer for "Isn't all this anti-gay rhetoric coming out of your organization actually based on church politics and decisions, not actual scripture and the word of god?"

By: phearlez

phearlez — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:47:27 -0800

Why do the words "Fundamentalist Agenda" seldom see print? For a bulleted list you need 3 or more items. "Oppress all opposing viewpoints" is only one.

By: deborah

deborah — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 14:14:45 -0800

PeterMcDermott's link is NSFW. That is, unless you're allowed to read erotic fiction at work. I also flagged digaman's post as fantastic. I truly wish that everyone were capable of putting themselves in [ insert "controversial" person here ]'s shoes.