Comments on: People of the United States, why is everyone yelling at you???

People of the United States, why is everyone yelling at you???

Capn — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:00:58 -0800

Beware! We will take over television studios, kidnap so-called commentators and broadcast calm, well-reasoned discussions of the issues of the day. The manifesto of the Unitarian Jihad.

By: Capn

Capn — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:07:52 -0800

You know, I could have taken this as the starting point for a linkalicious post about Unitarianism, doing lots of research and reading, but frankly, that sounded like a lot of work. Hey, it's a laugh right? If it's ok with you, I'll take a mulligan on this one.

By: iamck

iamck — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:18:07 -0800

I'm a little dissapointed that this is a joke.

By: Mr Pointy

Mr Pointy — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:27:14 -0800

I, too, yearn to live in a world where Unitarian Jihad is real. Fun post, Capn.

By: warbaby

warbaby — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:31:17 -0800

Don't be surprised if Unitarian nightriders burn a question mark in your front yard, Capn.

By: maryh

maryh — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:36:06 -0800

I guess I'll fill in for the Capn. Here's a couple of sermons by the late Rev. J. Frank Schulman on the origins of Unitarianism, if anyone's interested. The second, on Sebastian Castellio's run-in with Calvin, esspecially feels timely today. Viva Reason!

By: Hot Like Your 12V Wire

Hot Like Your 12V Wire — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:38:26 -0800

I, for one, welcome our new Unitarian overlords.

By: jabo

jabo — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:43:48 -0800

Emerson Akbar!

By: thomcatspike

thomcatspike — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:45:50 -0800

Your Unitarian Jihad Name

By: The Infamous Jay

The Infamous Jay — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:46:19 -0800

That's it! I'm starting my own UJ cell. Anyone want to second that motion?

By: pieisexactlythree

pieisexactlythree — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:49:19 -0800

warbaby, I recall that joke made by Garrison Kiellor on a show a couple years ago, as part of the Guy Noir Private Eye bit: watch out for those Uniterrorists - they burn question marks on your front lawn.

By: digaman

digaman — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:49:24 -0800

Oh no. They will force us to eat casseroles, or as they are known in terrorist-controlled territory, "covered dishes." (Jon Carroll, the author of this great piece, is one of San Francisco's daily treasures.)

By: mai

mai — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:04:28 -0800

In MN we called it hot dish. This reminds me of my friends' parents in high school.

By: mai

mai — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:05:47 -0800

I am Sister Pepper Spray of Desirable Mindfulness. Rock.

By: warbaby

warbaby — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:06:37 -0800

the burning question mark joke was old when I was in Liberal Religious Youth (LRY) -- and the Beatles were still a group then...

By: wendell

wendell — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:08:19 -0800

Pockets of reasonableness and harmony will appear as if from nowhere! ...and then be crushed by the MetaFilter Army of Snark and Asshattery. - Brother Shining Awl of Rationality

By: jokeefe

jokeefe — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:08:55 -0800

Where can I sign up? I'm Sister Machine Gun of Warm Humanitarianism. Forward the Jihad!

By: digaman

digaman — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:21:18 -0800

I'm waiting for the word "bias" to be uttered with utter solemnity. -- Brother Suitcase Nuke of Fellowship

By: koeselitz

koeselitz — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:23:06 -0800

This is funny because it makes fun of Unitarians.

By: dragstroke

dragstroke — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:27:20 -0800

Regardless of what else I get out of this, I'm keeping my name: Shotgun of Sweet Reason Oh, YEAH.

By: Simon!

Simon! — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:29:30 -0800

This is funny because it makes fun of Unitarians. Except for the part where it really kind of doesn't. - Brother Claymore of Reasoned Discussion

By: Balisong

Balisong — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:59:50 -0800

Unitarian Jihad = Discordians All Hail Eris!

By: Embryo

Embryo — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:00:12 -0800

Just one more reason to love being a Unitarian. and oh yes -- there are way more than that.

By: emelenjr

emelenjr — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:01:55 -0800

Brother Cutlass of Mild Reason This cracks me up for some odd, mild reason.

By: Balisong

Balisong — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:02:55 -0800

Forgot my nameline.. -Wierd Unkle Scabby of The Jesters Court

By: Embryo

Embryo — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:05:28 -0800

p.s. The Universalist half gets ignored sometimes, but it's pretty fucking awesome too. For those who have no idea what is going on right now: Unitarian Universalist Origins: Our Historic Faith.

By: graymouser

graymouser — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:05:29 -0800

Embryo: That last link isn't working; what's it about? -The Katana of Enlightened Compassion

By: maryh

maryh — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:06:55 -0800

Try Googling "Unitarian Jihad"- There's already over 19,000 results. Looks like this meme is really taking off. Here's the UUwiki entry. I'm signing up and gettin' me some of that hot dish of the revolution. Yum! -Sister Spikey Mace of Looking at All Sides of the Question

By: spicynuts

spicynuts — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:09:57 -0800

I am going to call myself Brother Guillotine of the Non-denominational Bake Sale.

By: jokeefe

jokeefe — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:13:15 -0800

greymouser, among other things, that link states that Unitarianism was founded in 16th century Transylvania. Just one more reason why I am proud to have been brought up a member of the UU church; I feel a potluck of celebration is in the offing.

By: jesourie

jesourie — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:16:22 -0800

(Jon Carroll, the author of this great piece, is one of San Francisco's daily treasures.) He replied graciously to my fawning email, too, though he must be getting bombarded. He's got class. --Sister Howitzer of Compassion

By: schyler523

schyler523 — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:21:52 -0800

This is great. I will now be called Brother Thumbscrews of Glee...

By: LionIndex

LionIndex — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:23:29 -0800

- Brother Claymore of Reasoned Discussion Well, crap. I'm Brother Dagger of Reasoned Discussion.

By: ZenMasterThis

ZenMasterThis — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:24:38 -0800

I will call myself "Zen Master This." No, wait a minute...

By: mkhall

mkhall — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:46:53 -0800

This is a marvelous thing. I must ask politely that my friends and co-workers call me The Cattle Prod of Forgiveness. If they do not do as I ask then, well, I guess it's okay.

By: Sparx

Sparx — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:49:17 -0800

As the Katana of Quiet Reflection, I shall reserve judgement...for now.

By: A dead Quaker

A dead Quaker — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:52:52 -0800

Well, speaking of Garrison Keillor, I guess I'm never going back to the church of Our Lady of Perpetual Responsibility. Just call me... The Nail Gun of Love and Mercy.

By: koeselitz

koeselitz — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:06:20 -0800

Universalist Unitarianism makes no sense because it proclaims unified respect and love for all religions while simultaneously snubbing every single one, or at least a good portion of them. You can't go to a Catholic church, for example, and go to Unitarian church too, if only because they happen at about the same time every week. And, more than that, Unitarianism encourages a half-hearted sampling of religion without a real dose of what religion promises. It's like eating nothing but appetizers. I've never met a Unitarian who was a full-fledged member, in a real sense, of one of the other religions. However, I've met a lot of such members of religions who believed in a transcendant unity in religions or in a truth available to all humans in all times. I conclude that to actually respect and support religion, you have to pick one and be a member. This doesn't mean writing off all the other religions, no matter what the Unitarians would have one believe. Religions were teaching tolerance and compassion for millennia before unitarianism came along, and they'll be teaching it long after the last unitarian church crumbles into the ground. What's more, the United States is pretty damned secular. Even the "fundies" here don't really read the bible much or care about it. It's only slightly less secular than Europe, that's all.

By: Grimgrin

Grimgrin — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:16:12 -0800

Reminds me of that Eddie Izzard bit. "Church of England, cake or death?" The Garrote of Enlightenment

By: shoppingforsanity

shoppingforsanity — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:16:54 -0800

I seem to be Sister Cattleprod of Moderation... NICE. I am jumping on the UJ bandwagon here and will join my local cell (sorry, I'm not much of a leader so I won't be starting my own). Although, I would prefer to call myself Agnostic...

By: The Infamous Jay

The Infamous Jay — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:21:01 -0800

... cake please...

By: shoppingforsanity

shoppingforsanity — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:26:21 -0800

P.S. my fav name so far is "Brother Guillotine of the Non-Denominational Bake Sale" - did you make that one up, spicynuts? If so... good on ya. :)

By: cali

cali — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:30:30 -0800

koeselitz, may I respectfully suggest that you do not seem to be making sense? UU is a religion. Why would its members need to belong to another, additional church? Sincerely, Sister Howitzer of Desirable Mindfulness.

By: MrLint

MrLint — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:35:01 -0800

I made up my own. igniter of the eternal flame of logic.

By: maryh

maryh — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:37:43 -0800

What's more, the United States is pretty damned secular. Even the "fundies" here don't really read the bible much or care about it. It's only slightly less secular than Europe, that's all. posted by koeselitz at 6:06 PM PST on April 14 Well, that's debatable. There certainly seem to be a lot of fundies reading bibles these days, if only the Revelations part. And as for teaching tolerance and compassion, many of our homegrown congregations seem to have given that a pass of late. Or haven't you noticed? -Sister Spikey Mace of Looking at All Sides of the Question

By: damnitkage

damnitkage — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:38:45 -0800

Like many here I've found my new name. All Hail the Jihad. Unless of course it's not the right time or maybe hasn't been approved by the committee of approvals. I am and remain.... Sibling Boot Knife of Quiet Reflection

By: amberglow

amberglow — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:41:25 -0800

Sibling Nail Gun of Enlightenment -- i like it!

By: Relay

Relay — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:49:45 -0800

As a Unitarian (and no, I'm not making that up), I find this whole thing really refreshing. I grew up Catholic, and there's a million Catholic jokes. Unitarians? One (that question mark thing). But other than that, it IS a very interesting faith to be a part of, and personally, I like the this whole idea of the Unitarian Jihad. BTW, I am: The Nail Gun of Mild Reason Don't make me go all John Quincy Adams on your ass

By: zeypher

zeypher — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:49:48 -0800

I move to support further thorough investigation about the possibility of this jihad occuring locally. -Brother Neutron Bomb of Moderation

By: livii

livii — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:53:55 -0800

Ah, the name meme's went around livejournal last week. Of course, this means I have to admit I use livejournal. I didn't do the meme, though. Heh. Unitarians are really interesting. We had a female Unitarian minister marry us, and she didn't mention the word god once. I was very pleased and yet we still had a minister. Worked out all around.

By: gubo

gubo — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:55:34 -0800

Random UU jokes

By: Relay

Relay — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:57:50 -0800

Thank you gubo, thank you

By: spicynuts

spicynuts — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:02:10 -0800

P.S. my fav name so far is "Brother Guillotine of the Non-Denominational Bake Sale" - did you make that one up, spicynuts? If so... good on ya. :) I did indeed make that one up. I was trying to go for something a little different.

By: mdn

mdn — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:11:40 -0800

You know, I could have taken this as the starting point for a linkalicious post about Unitarianism, doing lots of research and reading, more links !=better post. Fattening up links is an unfortunate practice in my opinion, because the real link gets lost among a bunch of easily googlable nondescript bits of this & that. Multilink posts are a different animal altogether - they can be great but they're not by definition better, IMO. This doesn't mean writing off all the other religions, no matter what the Unitarians would have one believe. Religions were teaching tolerance and compassion for millennia before unitarianism came along, and they'll be teaching it long after the last unitarian church crumbles into the ground. What makes you think UUs want to write off all other religions? The basic reason for the existence of the UU church is evident in the two strands of christianity out of which it evolved. Unitarians concluded the trinity didn't really make sense, and universalists concluded that God wouldn't send anyone to hell. They are only differentiated from Christians insofar as christians take those beliefs literally. Ie, if you have a liberal, metaphoric sort of interpretation of scripture, then you're basically on the same page. The point of the church is just to have a church where that's the official understanding. UUism is basically modern day deism. No doubt there are members of other churches who are essentially deists, but no other church officially holds that as the organization's understanding. Surely there are catholics who are really deists, but the vatican takes jesus's resurrection literally.

By: elwoodwiles

elwoodwiles — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:14:57 -0800

I am Brother Cattle Prod of Loving Kindness, please treat me accordingly, that is all.

By: Miko

Miko — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:16:55 -0800

koeselitz, your understanding of Unitarianism is rudimentary at best. It's a centuries-old faith, rooted in Christianity (and its antecedent, Judaism), that is every bit as legitimate as any other denomination that has developed post-Reformation. Members subscribe to a well-developed and meaningful set of theological principles and are dedicated to continuously evolving discussion of spiritual ideas. To claim that in some way it is not a 'real' religion is to betray an ignorance of the nature of the faith. Perhaps you'd like to weigh in with critiques of Bahai, the Society of Friends (Quakers), and the Reform movement in Judaism, too? Because they might fail your proposed test for what a real religion is. I find it more suggestive that as many as 90% of Unitarians have already been members of other churches. Many found their way to the UU church because their original churches could not resolve fundmental logical conflicts within church dogma, or showed an intolerance or inability to respect other ways of believing or entertain the possibility that certain church constructs might be in error and worthy of review. When so many UUers have already worshipped in other churches and have chosen this one, why would they have any interest in returning to institutions with artificially narrowed world views?

By: yhbc

yhbc — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:26:29 -0800

After due reflection, and appropriate consideration of different viewpoints, I can honestly say: That was great. - The Howitzer of Looking at All Sides of the Question

By: Miko

Miko — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:43:48 -0800

From gubo's joke site: How many YRUUs does it take to screw in a lightbulb? YRUUs don't screw in light bulbs! They screw in sleeping bags in the church basement. Hahahahaha. And....true. I was there, I remember. The Sunday evening meetings saw every kind of liminal action teenagers could do. The smell of clove cigarettes still brings it all back. [YRUU is the youth group. If that name seems excruciating in any way, know that waaay back when I was in it, it was called LRY = Liberal Religious Youth].

By: warbaby

warbaby — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:46:28 -0800

Don't forget the Orthodox and Reformed variants of Unitarianism: the Orthodox go to church and the Reformed sleep in.

By: drinkmaildave

drinkmaildave — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:01:37 -0800

three hours since the post that there were 19,000 pages from a google search, now there's 33,000 pages! viva the revolution! Brother Jackhammer of Forgiveness Oh yeah, that's going on my business cards!

By: drezdn

drezdn — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:23:26 -0800

Unitarianism is one of the two religions I would consider joining. -Brother Sabre of Enlightened Compassion

By: queen zixi

queen zixi — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:27:47 -0800

This is by far the least embarassed I've felt for participating in a silly-name meme. Brother Ahlspiess of All Available Diversity

By: BinGregory

BinGregory — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:57:54 -0800

This is probably also on gubo's link but here goes: What do you get when you cross a Jehova's Witness, a Seventh Day Adventist and a Unitarian Universalist? Somebody who knocks on your door on Saturday for no particular reason! With regard to this as many as 90% of Unitarians have already been members of other churches., that has got to be balanced by 95% of born Unitarians wandering out of the faith. - Former Unitarian (well, not really, but I did do the UU youth group thing)

By: Embryo

Embryo — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:37:14 -0800

Yes, it's true that Unitarian Universalism contains strong threads from its precursor protestant sects as descended from Judeo/Christian roots. The latter, and less-cited half of the UU Principles and Purposes is in regards to the sources of the foundation of our spiritual community: The living tradition which we share draws from many sources: * Direct experience of that transcending mystery and wonder, affirmed in all cultures, which moves us to a renewal of the spirit and an openness to the forces which create and uphold life; * Words and deeds of prophetic women and men which challenge us to confront powers and structures of evil with justice, compassion, and the transforming power of love; * Wisdom from the world's religions which inspires us in our ethical and spiritual life; * Jewish and Christian teachings which call us to respond to God's love by loving our neighbors as ourselves; * Humanist teachings which counsel us to heed the guidance of reason and the results of science, and warn us against idolatries of the mind and spirit. * Spiritual teachings of earth-centered traditions which celebrate the sacred circle of life and instruct us to live in harmony with the rhythms of nature. Therefore, it's like a more evolved, radical form of deism that is much more inclusive to non-deists. One running debate in our community revolves around how much to use traditional Christian language to talk about "that transcending mystery and wonder," and the rest of the stuff above. Many would very much rather not risk ressurecting the oppressive belief systems of the past, sometimes because they may still be feeling the trauma of their previous experiences. Others press for a more conscious acknowledgement of our roots in that tradition. But while this is a hot topic at our continental General Assembly and in other regional and continental communities, when different congregations organize together, many UUs are able to find congregations that fit their preference either way -- the Unitarian Universalist Association embodys a relatively good (but evolving) democratic structure, with a local/district/continental separation of roles. Congregations can worship in their own style, and I know a lot of people who have tried one or more congregations before settling on one to involve themselves in as a member. Note, though, that I'm from Massachusetts -- 1/4th of all UUs live in the Northeast -- there are UU churches in seemingly every other Massachusetts town). Relatedly, many congregations choose to adopt other words than Church for their names -- Society, Congregation, Parish are some others I can think of. There is also an internet-based Church of the Larger Fellowship which provides some community services to UUs who are not able to attend a congregation -- i.e., one is not local, they are travelling, or (like me) they're college students and not able to invest in a church community. All congregations recieve a set number of delegates to the continental UUA General Assembly where business is done in plenary. This business is very transparent and incredibly well covered (for example). Many UUs also claim other religious identities. Some construe this as proof that UUism is somehow not valid as a religion, but many UUs find it to be simply a religion with such open arms that -- despite it being completely different in spirit from a more dogmatic organization -- it is, at least in theory, open to accepting people's religious (and other) identities, and not attempt to define them. The "in theory part" is that the UUA, and Unitarian Universalism, is not as diverse as many UUs think it would be if we were really as good at accepting others' identities as we think we can and should be. UUs belong to other communities and carry the socializations of those communities in with them. Resultingly our communities do have issues to deal with (for example) from time to time, as all human relationships do in our society. But the UUA has supported and helped to drive both ministerial and lay efforts to build continental-level programs that support us in our goal of building more accountable and anti-oppressive communities. To many UUs, including myself, we are called to this work by our principles and purposes. Indeed, Unitarian Universalism has a rich tradition in working to further social justice, as well as in progressive activism, in the interest of working towards a healthier human dialogue in the world at large. Within our communities, the UUA does quite well with some things, and not so well with others; many congregations are regarded as relatively unoppressive places for gay/lesbian/bisexual/queer folks, but likely struggle with heterosexism, sexism, classism, racism, ageism, and supporting the gender binary (excluding transgendered folks) nonetheless. However, we have been working to further dialogue about these issues within our communities, including in identity-based caucuses, in order to figure out how to recognize how these oppressions affect us and how to work to build righter relationships. Also, we have a lot a lot of fun. UU spaces are often places where I feel like my whole self in a way that I am rarely comfortable being in other environments. I have incredibly deep relationships with people across the continent as a result of our interactions within such a safe space. These are just the first things that pop to mind about the religion, aside from the Principles and Purposes, as linked above and by Miko. But ask the question, "So, what's Unitarian Universalism about?" to two different UUs, and you will get interestingly different answers. This is my perspective based on the work I've done and the UU communities I've been a part of as a current young adult and ex-youth.

By: Aknaton

Aknaton — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:33:34 -0800

There was a (typically) brilliant post at the Whiskey Bar about this. Excerpt: It seems some religions (Unitarian Universalism, Christian Science, the Teletubbies) just have a fatal attraction towards rationality. It's a disease -- a symptom of a backward culture in deep crisis, unable to cope with the xenophobic bigotry and fundamentalist superstitions of modern society. Some people say we should destroy these intellectual terrorists -- invade their churches, kill their discussion leaders and convert them all at gunpoint to our mainstream conservative values. But that would be futile. Force is useless against the rational mind. The only thing these terrorists understand is cold, hard reason.

By: longbaugh

longbaugh — Fri, 15 Apr 2005 02:38:23 -0800

Death please. No, No! I meant cake! - Brother Shotgun of Looking at All Sides of the Question

By: eriko

eriko — Fri, 15 Apr 2005 04:18:55 -0800

'What do you mean you have no cake left? My choic is "or Death?"' -- Eddie Izzard -Brother Machine Gun of Enlightened Compassion

By: nofundy

nofundy — Fri, 15 Apr 2005 05:14:32 -0800

We will require all lobbyists, spokesmen and campaign managers to dress like trout in public. Heh. Hear that troutfishing? Check your pants quonsar. There's real revolution coming. Within reason, of course. -Black Helicopter of Hugs-

By: koeselitz

koeselitz — Fri, 15 Apr 2005 09:23:11 -0800

mdn: "What makes you think UUs want to write off all other religions?" I wasn't very clear there. What I take offense to is the constant sniping by unitarians to the effect of "we like religion, but all the other religions are too cruel and unaccepting for us." The assumption is that to be an orthodox Christian, orthodox Muslim, or orthodox Jew means to write off the other religions and consign their adherents to hell. This notion is as dangerous as it is wrong; and I blame the unitarian universalists, not for starting this, but for perpetuating it. Religions have always been founded on tolerance. The idea of hell does not preclude compassion; Dante himself, knower of deeper secrets than I'll ever glimpse, wrote that the sign over the entrance to hell declares, "LOVINGKINDNESS BUILT ME!" The refusal even to attempt to understand these mysteries of the ancient faiths seems a lot like arrogance to me. Miko: "koeselitz, your understanding of Unitarianism is rudimentary at best. It's a centuries-old faith, rooted in Christianity (and its antecedent, Judaism), that is every bit as legitimate as any other denomination that has developed post-Reformation. Members subscribe to a well-developed and meaningful set of theological principles and are dedicated to continuously evolving discussion of spiritual ideas. To claim that in some way it is not a 'real' religion is to betray an ignorance of the nature of the faith... I find it more suggestive that as many as 90% of Unitarians have already been members of other churches. Many found their way to the UU church because their original churches could not resolve fundmental logical conflicts within church dogma, or showed an intolerance or inability to respect other ways of believing or entertain the possibility that certain church constructs might be in error and worthy of review. When so many UUers have already worshipped in other churches and have chosen this one, why would they have any interest in returning to institutions with artificially narrowed world views?" You're right-- I didn't know that, and I needed to learn a bit about Unitarianism. My knowledge of the movement has been based only on the Unitarians I've known and article like the one linked above. However, seeing that it is what you say it is, I should say this: it still seems somewhat crass to me to stomp around as Unitarians often do proclaiming that 'we're the purveyors of reason in this crazy, mixed-up world.' I say it again: religious tolerance is very old, and is part of all of the true ancient religions. Those among the Muslims, the Jews, (yes, the Reformers) and the Christians (the Unitarians, among others) who believe that they have to leave behind their traditions in order to be 'tolerant' or 'accepting' are dead wrong; they do so only because they are chained to the machines of progress, and because these words are the words they've been raised to adore. Islam has a tradition of tolerance behind it; as a recent post pointed out, the Indian religions have a long history of being tolerant and accepting toward Islam; Jews have thought for centuries about the writings of other faiths; and Christians, inventors of the University, are age-old thinkers on other faiths. The catch is this: compassion and truth are more important than tolerance and diversity. Religion insists on truth because truth is damned important, and because caring about other people means wanting them to know the truth. The fact that this insistence has been misinterpreted sometimes in the past isn't a reason to denigrate the faiths that espouse compassion over tolerance; it's a reason to try to right that wrong from within the religions. Now, more than ever, this is an important goal: fostering understanding between religions. By sniping at religion and accusing it sighingly of intolerance, Unitarian Universalism isn't helping. maryh: "There certainly seem to be a lot of fundies reading bibles these days, if only the Revelations part. And as for teaching tolerance and compassion, many of our homegrown congregations seem to have given that a pass of late. Or haven't you noticed?" I hate the word "fundy." That's why I put it in quotes in my last post. There's not much that's 'fundamental' about the modern evangelical movement. However, their reading of the bible, as rudimentary as it is, has softened them; and I can honestly say, having been lucky enough to spend a lot of time among them as an outsider, that they are some of the kindest, most caring, and most compassionate people I've met. One who's only heard about conservative christians on the news or on the internet is shocked at how nice they are in real life, and how little resemble the right-wing nuts that one hears about. That's not to say that the right-wing nuts don't exist; but they seem to be a small part of a single percentage point of a huge body of good people. That's my experience, anyhow. Miko: "Perhaps you'd like to weigh in with critiques of Bahai, the Society of Friends (Quakers), and the Reform movement in Judaism, too?" Well, not at the moment. But that reminds me of a joke that an orthodox jewish friend of mine once told me: what's the difference between the Pope and a reform Jew? The Pope wears a yarmulke.

By: papercake

papercake — Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:05:35 -0800

There's not much that's 'fundamental' about the modern evangelical movement. However, their reading of the bible, as rudimentary as it is, has softened them Good point. From now on, I suggest we call them "rudies"

By: deborah

deborah — Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:52:29 -0800

¡Viva la Jihad! - Sister Shuriken of Loving Kindness

By: expialidocious

expialidocious — Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:16:18 -0800

koeselitz writes, on 'fundamentalists': ...having been lucky enough to spend a lot of time among them as an outsider, that they are some of the kindest, most caring, and most compassionate people I've met. One who's only heard about conservative christians on the news or on the internet is shocked at how nice they are in real life, and how little resemble the right-wing nuts that one hears about. You're conflating manners (hospitality; friendliness; social skills) with politics here. Your friends and the wingnuts on TV may be the very same people. Look at the Atwood, Kansas thread, or this article on the 'folksy grandma' who's heading up an anti-gay-marriage group. The fact that conservative Christians are kind, caring, and compassionate in a social context where you are dealing with them one on one does not prevent them from going on national TV and saying ridiculously hateful things about people they've never met. Nor does it prevent them from voting in ways that directly hurt their nice friends and neighbors. This habit is not unique to conservative Christians, but they are a textbook case right now.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:25:44 -0800

I conclude that to actually respect and support religion, you have to pick one and be a member. Other people dissagree. - Atom Bomb of Warm Humanitarianism.

By: jtron

jtron — Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:09:59 -0800

koeselitz : Religions have always been founded on tolerance. Examples please?

By: shmegegge

shmegegge — Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:04:26 -0800

wait, did I miss something?

By: jaronson

jaronson — Sat, 16 Apr 2005 08:41:21 -0800

Brother Atom Bomb of Quiet Reflection ...just checking my messages.

By: QIbHom

QIbHom — Sat, 16 Apr 2005 13:57:17 -0800

By: trigonometry

trigonometry — Sat, 16 Apr 2005 16:26:07 -0800

As another UU, I appreciate this fpp more than you can imagine. Some of the links are great; I have trebled my count of Unitarian jokes (I had the kittens-eyes-open one too). Thanks, Capn. QIbHom:While on a church tour in Detroit, the person who gave us a tour of the old UU church downtown explained why she, and many others who'd moved out to the suburbs, continued to drive back to this particular church My grandparents were members of that church. I'm an anomaly, a fifth-generation Unitarian and third-generation UU (our congregation was "merged" in 1952, nine years before the national merger). But like so many, I wandered off looking at other faiths and ended up right back where I started. Miko: YRUUs don't screw in light bulbs! They screw in sleeping bags in the church basement. That is completely and totally true, but it can be extended to the woods at YAC cons and retreats. And koeselitz: You really don't understand the whole idea of UUism. Like creationist dogmatists attacking science for not having all the answers, dogmatic religion likes to do the same to UUism in the spiritual realm.

By: BinGregory

BinGregory — Sun, 17 Apr 2005 05:38:02 -0800

While on a church tour in Detroit, the person who gave us a tour of the old UU church downtown explained why she, and many others who'd moved out to the suburbs, continued to drive back to this particular church Wah! The First Unitarian-Universalist Church of Detroit (FUUCD) rocks. My favorite anecdotes: * As a teenager, my best friend's mother was offered drugs by Alice Cooper in the basement of that church. * The long time minister, a grandfatherly old gay man named Richard Hasty (huh uh huh huh) had recently been replaced by a new minister. After services one day while pinching cookies and coffee, my friend runs over to tell me what he just overheard: Two old grandmotherly types were discussing the new minister. Says one: Did you hear Theresa came out of the closet? Say the other: You mean she' a lesbian? Say the first: No, she's a deist! Says the other: No! I could have accepted it if she was a lesbian!

By: raedyn

raedyn — Mon, 18 Apr 2005 09:00:25 -0800

Three cheers for UU's! The UU youth cons were the highlights of my teenage years.