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American Concentration Camps.
April 21, 2005 2:31 PM   Subscribe

U.S. Concentration Camps: FEMA and the REX 84 Program. There over 800 prison camps in the United States, all fully operational and ready to receive prisoners. They are all staffed and even surrounded by full-time guards, but they are all empty. These camps are to be operated by FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) should Martial Law need to be implemented in the United States and all it would take is a presidential signature on a proclamation and the attorney general's signature on a warrant to which a list of names is attached.
posted by monju_bosatsu (76 comments total)

 
I had a great conversation with my sister last night over some drinks about how dangerous it is to invoke Goodwin when talking about the US. Also in the conversation were two US Marines who had just got back from the shit and came up to visit Canada and were totally blown away that some people in this world live regular, fun, non hating lives.

It's kinda scary but each day, it gets easier to invoke Goodwin, but the distinction still needs to be made. American style fascism does not equal Nazism. Is there a word for it even? Corporate-Religious-Nuttiness?
posted by futureproof at 2:44 PM on April 21, 2005


Hooray for our evangelical christian overlords! These facilities will be useful for the re-education campaigns.
posted by Elpoca at 2:48 PM on April 21, 2005


Google produces some interesting results on this article. The wording has been used over and over, as the number of reported camps has grown from 600 to 800 (must be a building boom). You don't seriously believe this, do you?
posted by MrMoonPie at 2:48 PM on April 21, 2005


The camps all have railroad facilities as well as roads leading to and from the detention facilities. Many also have an airport nearby.

railroad facilities? in america? other than evoking images of other more famous concentration camps, the railroad links don't seem to add value to the concept.

looks sketchy.
posted by three blind mice at 2:54 PM on April 21, 2005


Why does FEMA always take the whipping? (I mean, other than the black-helicopter-clearly-FEMA=antichrist)
EO 11921, referred to in the link, doesn't even mention it by name.

Or am I supposed to "read between the obscuring lines" or something?
posted by Ogre Lawless at 2:57 PM on April 21, 2005



Why does FEMA always take the whipping?


You won't be so smug when you spend some time a mile underneath the Denver Airport.
posted by COBRA! at 3:00 PM on April 21, 2005


I dunno about Denver, but at least I'm safe here in town...

Sacramento - Army Depot - No specific information at this time. Mather AFB - Road to facility is blocked off by cement barriers and a stop sign. Sign states area is restricted; as of 1997 there were barbed wire fences pointing inward, a row of stadium lights pointed toward an empty field, etc. Black boxes on poles may have been cameras.

Sadly dated. The Army Depot has long since stopped being der evil terrorprison and was converted into a business park a long time ago. A similar fate befell Mather which is now fully open to the public. In my wanderings there I've yet to see "inward-facing" barbed wire, though the typical "Y" formation is pretty common, especially around the stadium-lighted empty fields they use for training.

Cop training...
posted by Ogre Lawless at 3:01 PM on April 21, 2005


You don't seriously believe this, do you?

It's not like it's ever happened before or anything in the U.S.
We have checks and balances. A simple executive order couldn't just put people in camps or "relocation centers".

And Canada is full of level headed freedom loving folks, even if we flipped out and did it in the U.S. they wouldn't succumb to similar pressures.

What's scary is how innocuous all this is. But then evil is pretty banal. Please register. It's just a form. Please wear this arm band. It's just an identifier. Please get on this train. We're just separating you. Please take a shower. Etc.

Which is why it's unbelievable. Oh, they're not Nazis. The Nazis were crazy people who worshipped evil and blah blah blah.
This is about patriotism and Christ the Lord and wholesome family values which THOSE people don't believe in.

Or whatever you want to hear that keeps you from resisting.

Kinda like a political rohypnol.
posted by Smedleyman at 3:06 PM on April 21, 2005


Tinfoil hats! Getcher tinfoil hats here! Don't be exposed to the secret FEMA black helicopter concentration camp mind rays without a tinfoil hat! Getcher tinfoil hats here!

Sheesh. This was stale ten years ago when it was being hyped by John Trochmann and the Militia of Montana.

How about some clips from The Spotlight for added credibility? Or maybe some extra details from Lyndon LaRuche?
posted by warbaby at 3:06 PM on April 21, 2005


futureproof Is there a word for it even? Corporate-Religious-Nuttiness?

Wiki to the rescue. Mussolini's fascism and the phenomenon of corporatism.
posted by PurplePorpoise at 3:08 PM on April 21, 2005


Seems crackpottery to me. Take the list of executive orders they cite:

Executive order 10990 doesn't allow the government to take over all transportation systems. It re-established the Federal Safety Council, which is some manner of body internal to the Labor Department that seems to serve as an OSHA for federal employees.

Executive order 10995 doesn't allow the government to seize and control the communication media. It creates an office that manages telecom and broadcast bandwidth within the federal government, and it was revoked in 1970.

I could go on, but got bored. They don't even seem to understand that if it has an executive order number, it was already signed; that nonsense about it only awaiting a signature doesn't make sense even within the conspiracy theory.

Perhaps it all makes sense through the harmonic time cube.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:09 PM on April 21, 2005


This is pretty weak. A lot of these facilities are active military installations. New Cumberland, PA? It's so full of spare parts that the prisoners would have to stand sideways between the pallet racks.
posted by fixedgear at 3:09 PM on April 21, 2005


railroad facilities? in hawaii? oh, you mean the sugar cane train. i miss squishing pennies under that thing.
posted by nearo at 3:09 PM on April 21, 2005


Sheesh, you people are so paranoid.

*whistles past the graveyard*
posted by gigawhat? at 3:16 PM on April 21, 2005


This particular meme has been floating around a long time. It's interesting that it's getting new traction now. Mass jailing of political prisoners doesn't seem quite as farfetched as it once did.

That said, this particular post is complete hogwash... it's all inference and loaded language, not facts. This is the exact same kind of thinking that results in 'there was no Holocaust, it was all a lie' and 'we didn't walk on the Moon, that was a propaganda hoax'.

There are some elements that are considered lunatic fringe, however, that I'm not sure are entirely lunatic. I still really wonder about the Timothy McVeigh bombing.... it sure looks to me like the glass was blown out in that explosion, not in. I've never seen a really good explanation for how that blast pattern could have come about. I'm obviously a layperson, but those pictures sure look wrong to me.

Just being on the lunatic fringe alone isn't a sure sign of hogwash, but it's a strong one. Use your noggin and check sources. There are real stories that the US media won't carry, but this isn't one of them.
posted by Malor at 3:19 PM on April 21, 2005


Ten years ago these stupid rumors were all over the right-wing whack-job circuit.

Here the John Birch Society (long-time opponents of mental health programs as a communist plot) denounces the FEMA rumors as bullshit.

I mean, c'mon folks. Get a life.

or get a tinfoil hat.
posted by warbaby at 3:21 PM on April 21, 2005


Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean that people aren't out to get you...
posted by clevershark at 3:22 PM on April 21, 2005


Haven't you guys seen Red Dawn? We're all going to be locked up in drive-in movie theaters.
posted by mokujin at 3:23 PM on April 21, 2005


Dumb. REX-84 was supposedly originally a plan put in place in 1984 (hence the name) by Reagan and quickly became a major fear of the militia movement. Fascinating to see it become a meme of the left (whole discussion of that here). Can't we come up with new, fresh conspiracies?
posted by blahblahblah at 3:25 PM on April 21, 2005


warbaby writes: Here the John Birch Society (long-time opponents of mental health programs as a communist plot) denounces the FEMA rumors as bullshit."

The JBS? Will you treat us to an Aryan Nations opinion piece next?!?
posted by clevershark at 3:25 PM on April 21, 2005


This is the same bullshit Kent Hovind spouts off to evangelicals in the middle of "creation science" lectures. He add's a biblical twist by making this part of the larger "New World Order" wherein those silly Catholics take control over the UN and the UN invades America and they make all evangelicals convert to The Universal Faith and if they don't, they go to concentration camps - on of which is already built at Eglin Air Force Base.

I'd actually like to see a serious review of what kind of damage Executive Orders in times of crises can do. I do have faith though, that having seen 9/11, the gov't really didn't have too many crazy tricks already up it's sleeve just waiting for an excuse to be unleashed.
posted by trinarian at 3:27 PM on April 21, 2005


Sedona - Possible site of UN base

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. "The interrogation rooms were inhuman! They'd play soft whalesong music, light scented candles, hang a crystal pendant around your neck and then their trained staff clairvoyants would read whatever they wanted to know from your aura! There was no keeping anything from them!"
posted by George_Spiggott at 3:29 PM on April 21, 2005


As soon as i get in touch with the templar knights and the Rosicrucians, you all are fucked, FEMA or not...can you see the fnords?
posted by schyler523 at 3:32 PM on April 21, 2005


It's all crap.

"Louisville(Ky) - FEMA detention facility, located near restricted area US naval ordnance plant. Military airfield located at facility, which is on south side of city."

1)The naval ordnance plant was shut down years ago and the grounds are being leased to businesses.

2) The "military airfield" is Louisville International Airport. Yes, there are Air Guard Units(transport and evac) but it's also the Main Hub for UPS.

This is out dated and well....stupid!
posted by The Infamous Jay at 3:35 PM on April 21, 2005


But thanks for the laugh!!!!
posted by The Infamous Jay at 3:35 PM on April 21, 2005


Warbaby--citing the John Birch Society's contempt for it makes me want to embrace it.
posted by adamrice at 3:36 PM on April 21, 2005


about how dangerous it is to invoke Goodwin

Jesus. By any chance do you mean "invoke Godwin", and if so, who did it and when? Yours was the first comment in the thread.
posted by George_Spiggott at 3:37 PM on April 21, 2005


99.9% of all references to "Godwin" in online forums only serve to show that people haven't clue one was to what Godwin's "law" is.
posted by clevershark at 3:41 PM on April 21, 2005


oops... "AS to what Godwin's 'law' is."
posted by clevershark at 3:42 PM on April 21, 2005


Sorry, clevershark but Aryan Nations is defunct. When they were active, they promoted this type of crap quite actively.

Here's some MOM fruitcakery for you. Trochman was a sometime participant / sometime rival of Richard Butler.

The point of the JBS link is that this stale nonsense has been around for a long time. It's dated October 1994.

And like most conspiracy theories, it grows by accretion without changing the core much.

This is in contrast to things that are true and evolve more dynamically.

You can't cheat an honest man. Never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump. -- W.C. Fields

on preview: oh ho, adamrice! Ask yourself why evil bastards like the JBS were paying attention to this ten years ago. I hope you're kidding.
posted by warbaby at 3:42 PM on April 21, 2005


My point was that quoting JBS is like quoting the Ku Klux Klan. Neither has any credibility, nor does the use of either reflect very well on the poster.
posted by clevershark at 3:46 PM on April 21, 2005


Oh, yeah... I played this game.

That JC Denton was a laugh riot: all those UNATCO troops, and Bob Page and Walton Simons and the Illuminati...
posted by ImJustRick at 3:48 PM on April 21, 2005


That said, this particular post is complete hogwash
I'm with you on that Malor. I think though the concept is valid despite the paranoia/antiparanoia posts.
For some reason, in a time of 'emergency' the executive branch has a history of doing pretty much whatever it wants and congress and the judiciary and the 'merican people seem to just roll over.
Witness this current debacle with Iraq. People keep conveniently forgetting for example the conditions under which we waged that war. (Congress has not passed a formal declaration of war)
And of course the aforementioned Japanese internments.

Given the track record, I don't think it's madness to consider that a president could issue orders confining even American citizens. Though I doubt it'd be the beer bellied militia folks going.


/off topic
.... it sure looks to me like the glass was blown out in that explosion, not in.


Lots of this stuff looks odd. But the engineering behind it is solid. I was spooked about the collapse of the WTCs - fell straight down. The problem is the incomplete media explanation combined with extrapolation. In short - the glass is supposed to blow out under most circumstances.
(and the WTC buildings fell the way they did because they're made to withstand extra sheer pressure - side to side - but not extra force from the top).
But the press tends to avoid the unspicy details.
posted by Smedleyman at 3:51 PM on April 21, 2005


The JBS? Will you treat us to an Aryan Nations opinion piece next?!?

A friend of mine said CNN this morning had a segment featuring a leader in the Aryan Nation, who announced the AN has decided they share much in common with al-Qaeda, and are going to work with them.

She saw this as a bald-faced--and successful--effort to get their leader interviewed on CNN, although why the Aryan Nation is saying to Bush, "Put me in prison NOW!" is somewhat puzzling, unless the AN is having trouble recruiting new members.
posted by fandango_matt at 3:51 PM on April 21, 2005


Dude!

Deus Ex was super fun!
posted by thirteenkiller at 3:51 PM on April 21, 2005


Here is a new aryan...
posted by schyler523 at 3:54 PM on April 21, 2005


Perhaps these are the new locations for debtor's prisons--y'know, now that they're laying the groundwork with the removal of bankruptcy as an option. Except they'll call them something different--give people a chance to work off their debt, perhaps frame them to appear to be like the work programs of the 30's.

Maybe they will be the center for giant agrarian camps, where people will be enticed to move in order to exchange labor for food after depleted petroleum forces us to manual farming with little shipping.

I'm only joking, of course...
posted by sourwookie at 3:57 PM on April 21, 2005


The camps all have railroad facilities as well as roads leading to and from the detention facilities. Many also have an airport nearby.
There was a post on the Internet talking & showing these facilities before Y2K.Which was what these facilities would be used for if chaos broke out from it. The photos in the post showed, from my memory, 100s of white vehicles lined up ready to be used when rounding the people up at one locatio.
posted by thomcatspike at 3:57 PM on April 21, 2005


Ten years ago these stupid rumors were all over the right-wing whack-job circuit.

Watch out when people on opposite ideological ends start believing the same "rumors".
posted by AlexReynolds at 3:59 PM on April 21, 2005


The evil Fort Douglas, concentration camp, located on the University Of Utah campus, a place where 50,000 students concentrate regularly, or else fail their classes. The renovated barracks, were used to house the Olympic athletes at the 2002 winter games. PS Fort Douglas has an antique charm nestled between the Wasatch mountains, the state Arboretum, The University Hospital, and Primary Children's Hospital, and the entire University of Utah campus to the west. Yeah baby, concentrate or fail!
posted by Oyéah at 3:59 PM on April 21, 2005


Only kooks believe this shit.

This is America. Stuff like this does not happen here.

Principles like habeas corpus mean the government can't just grab people off the street and throw them in camps.

The courts would squash that in a minute, unless the government suspended habeas corpus, and that's never happened here.

And even if a few people were detained, the government wouldn't build entire camps and fill them with American citizens -- that's just ridiculous scare-mongering.

Indeed, this whole allegation is just the standard baseless ranting of the Left, from the same people who make all sorts of ridiculous claims. These are the same pointy-heads who told us such lies as American soldiers torture Iraqis,
or that we're sending prisoners overseas to be tortured and boiled alive by foreign governments.

I prefer to believe the government -- it has a track record of being honest in its claims and correct in its predictions. I mean, we now know that the administration was right when it said Saddam had WMDs and that Iraq would be able to pay for its own reconstruction.

Given the track record of the Chicken Littles on the Left, why would anybody believe them when they make these outrageous claims about American concentration camps?

STFU lib'ruls.
posted by orthogonality at 4:03 PM on April 21, 2005


Clevershark: quoting JBS is like quoting the Ku Klux Klan. Neither has any credibility, nor does the use of either reflect very well on the poster.

What? I will once again point out that these stupid FEMA hoax / rumors originate in right-wing nutcase territory. Quoting the JBS on this from ten years ago shows:
1) it's old and stale
2) nutcases like the JBS were worried about how their members were getting trolled with it (successfully)

How the hell does that reflect on me? If you want to argue a point, stick to the point and skip these cheap bank shots.

Though, mind you, the FPP is essentially a troll, so I guess anything goes. If you look up thread, it seems like it already has...

Tinfoil hats! Getcher tinfoil hats here! Recycled right-wing conspiracy theories! Only ten years old and never go stale! Tinfoil hats! Getcher tinfoil hats here!

on preview: Chip Berlet nailed it back in 1991 in Right Woos Left
posted by warbaby at 4:08 PM on April 21, 2005


Isn't the very definition of a police state where you pretty much throw people in jail without trial or due process?
I wonder if people have noticed were there now.
Seriously. Granted it's only a very few people, but at what point does it become something we have to do something about?
twenty? a hundred? A thousand? A hundred thousand?

Rant rant rant!!
*goes and sits back on the couch*
*watches 3/7ths commercials*
*is amused and numb anyway*
posted by Smedleyman at 4:17 PM on April 21, 2005


This particular meme has been floating around a long time. It's interesting that it's getting new traction now. Mass jailing of political prisoners doesn't seem quite as farfetched as it once did.

Each time i hear about this, true or not, it's more and more believable.
posted by amberglow at 4:18 PM on April 21, 2005


PS Fort Douglas has an antique charm nestled between the Wasatch mountains, the state Arboretum, The University Hospital, and Primary Children's Hospital, and the entire University of Utah campus to the west. Yeah baby, concentrate or fail!

Oooooo! I hope I get sent there. I'll bring my mountain bike!
posted by jalexei at 4:19 PM on April 21, 2005


this is one site I saw before y2k. It was being sold as watch the government to do this when y2k happens. The same guy who showed me this site has a garage full of food and a 1000-gallon water tank collecting dust.
posted by thomcatspike at 4:22 PM on April 21, 2005


Given the track record of the Chicken Littles on the Left,
Um, there was a time you heard this from the extreme right-wingers. Maybe it was because I was on the US's left coast, California.
posted by thomcatspike at 4:26 PM on April 21, 2005


warbaby -- I never ascribed any truth to the rumors in the FPP. Frankly those things do sound very far-fetched, especially in a place like the US where social ostracism by ordinary citizens based on mere rumors is extremely easy to achieve and, really, more effective.
posted by clevershark at 4:27 PM on April 21, 2005


Andrews (NC) - Federal experiment in putting a small town under siege. Began with the search/ hunt for survivalist Eric Rudolph. No persons were allowed in or out of town without federal permission and travel through town was highly restricted. Most residents compelled to stay in their homes. Unregistered Baptist pastor from Indiana visiting Andrews affirmed these facts.

Um, not so much. Yes, the FBI was stationed there, and there were additional security measures, but nothing to imply the town was under seige. Oh, and Eric Rudolph wasn't a survivalist, he was a murderer.
posted by moonbird at 4:27 PM on April 21, 2005


Tinfoil hats! Getcher tinfoil hats here! Recycled right-wing conspiracy theories!

Interesting that a left-wing author would base one of his books on central details of the REX concentration camp plansright-wing conspiracy theories. Very interesting.
posted by AlexReynolds at 4:28 PM on April 21, 2005


The same guy who showed me this site has a garage full of food and a 1000-gallon water tank collecting dust.
That's the problem with the half-right nuts, thomcatspike.

Clearly any defense against this kind of thing would depend on cooperation and communication, not the nutty go it alone barracade yourself in your house types.

I did some security work for some firms that were worried about Y2K. They had some plants in cold regions of the world, not in the U.S. and were talking to me about defense perimeters and how to lock the place down and such (amazing how gung ho business guys can get) to ward off looters, thieves, etc.

Went over the plans, saw that they had on-campus power generators (in case local power failed) and I asked them "Where do most of your employees come from?"
They said most of them worked in nearby towns.
"Security guys too?"
Yep, their security folks were from the local areas too.
"So, you're expecting your security to turn away their families and friends from the only warm building in the area?"

They dropped the gung ho business after that.

Similar thing here.

But I'm not clear at all why this CAN'T happen just because people write "tinfoil hat"
I concede this specific plan won't work, and the efficacity of rumor is well established - currently most folks are marginalized by their socio-economic status and the locations their in.
But someone with middlin' power and money - some middle class suburban guy with empathy - say like me - might not like some of the things that are happening.
And let's say there are too many of us to frame easily and put in prison...
posted by Smedleyman at 4:47 PM on April 21, 2005


The best version of these came out 2003ish where it said that Haliburton had won a no bid contract to build these domestic relocation centers.

Local tinfoil hat man Alex Jones was all over it. But FEMA and the NWO must have shut him down since his sites inforwars.com and prisonplanet.com aren't working.

There are so many of these types of stories, I'm certain some of it may be true.
posted by birdherder at 4:52 PM on April 21, 2005


What an embarrassing post! Some other gems from the website:

If one watches videos of the WTC falling, it is plain that by the way it fell into itself and the way it seemed to explode into tiny fragments, that this was a demolition job.

We are witnessing a free-fall of society into the dark ages.

...and on and on. Crazy as hell.
posted by LarryC at 5:09 PM on April 21, 2005


MONTANA: Malmstrom AFB - UN aircraft groups stationed here, and possibly a detention facility.

I am assigned to and work at Malmstrom Air Force Base. Believe me -- there are no UN aircraft groups here. In fact, we don't have any airplanes -- the aircraft refueling mission was transferred to a base in Florida circa 1996/7. Our runway is now used as a jogging track. We do have several black helicopters, though -- they are used for escorting maintenance runs to the ICBM sites scattered throughout Montana, as well as performing search & rescue operations (stranded hikers, skiers, etc). As far as detention facilities -- well, any building could serve as such, so that assertion is quite meaningless.

Re: the linked article -- in a word: bull.
posted by davidmsc at 6:28 PM on April 21, 2005


The Republicans would talk themselves out of power by 2006 if the left could get their more embarrassing factions to shut up for 5 minutes.
posted by Mick at 6:34 PM on April 21, 2005


FEMA...the secret governement.
posted by gren at 6:35 PM on April 21, 2005


I'm surprised nobody's mentioned John Titor yet.
posted by TetrisKid at 6:36 PM on April 21, 2005


schuyler523:

Actually, it's pretty easy to find Rosicrucians these days. I know several. There's AMORC, of course. There's some group based somewhere in South America (if memory serves) as well. Not to mention that all Golden Dawn orders are each governed by an inner, Rosicrucian, order. One could conceivably argue that the OTO/TOT and A ?A ? also have Rosicrucian tendencies.

Rosicrucians are merely people who follow Rosicrucian philosophies and practices. Which is to say, following the rituals and ideas of the Roseae Rubiae et Auriea Crucis. Nothing more.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 6:44 PM on April 21, 2005


they still run ads in national enquirer, no?
posted by quonsar at 6:56 PM on April 21, 2005


Clevershark-

Are you being willfully obtuse? It is plain as the nose on my face that warbaby was merely pointing out exactly what he has said three times now: the rumor is old and baseless, so old and baseless it was being circulated on the JBS message boards ten years ago! AND, he never once ascribed to you belief in these rumors, so your refutations on that point are unnecessary.

Anyway, Executive Orders are scary, but they are vaguely constrained by the Constitution. By that I mean they exist only because of their historicity, not because it is an Executive power granted in the Constitution (by most readings of it). Courts have routinely struck down unconstrained uses of executive legislation, especially when Congress has weighed in on the issue in any way. So even if these executive orders actually were used to such ridiculous ends, both Congress and the courts would have to acquiesce as well.
posted by Falconetti at 7:02 PM on April 21, 2005


They will never contain the swarms of monkeys that will be flying out of my butt the day this happens!!! Resistance is futile!!! Prepare to be assimilated into the RNC collective!
posted by buzzman at 7:07 PM on April 21, 2005


I am assigned to and work at Malmstrom Air Force Base. Believe me -- there are no UN aircraft groups here

That's exactly what I'd expect from someone who's in on it.
posted by smcniven at 7:08 PM on April 21, 2005


Agreed that this is bull, but I have two anecdotal,on-topic stories to add. First, driving home to PA from GA, hungover and strung out, listening to some scratchy local AM in WV. Now this must have been 12 yrs ago, when this was a right-wing meme and this preacher was hammering all this federal prisoncamp stuff home. Talking about boxcars with shackles and being forced to denounce christianity and the plans are in place. It really freaked out my friends girlfriend (who wasn't christian) and consumed her for the rest of the ride. Admittedly, it was this eerie southern drawl, full of conviction, and would come in and out of reception on this blazing august afternoon.

This story is hard to believe. I can't prove it really happened to me, but I'm sure the events themselves could be documented online. Late at night, I was up w/my girlfriend watching the tube and we heard a ruckus outside. We went outside on to our little second story porch. Pgh is a city of hills and ours looked down on the Allegheny R. Helicopters were zooming up and down the river, searchlights blazing, right above the water. Then, automatic weapon fire, lots of it. I saw some bright flashes past downtown and heard some pretty loud explosions. There were a boatload of military helis buzzing around and the ones that flew over my head looked midnight black. My already paranoid mind, fueled by potsmoke and X-files, went into overdrive. I couldn't believe it! Was it a UFO crash into one of the 3 rivers? Was it a mass prison break? Did a nuclear payload fall from a airplane? These were pre-internet days for me, so I went to bed and tried to sleep. I couldn't wait to read the paper in the AM, but part of me was sure all that crazy shit would go unmentioned.

The paper laid it out pretty cleanly. It was some urban warfare sim in preparation for the Atl olympics. Several cities were chosen as guinea pigs. I remember there was a lot of fuss about the mayor knowing about it, but not telling the people. And some stories about older folks nearly having a heart attack ala War of the Worlds-but all that died down pretty quickly. An additional sim was canceled, though, due to all the ado. I remember the military people said the helicopters were dark green, not black and I thought that was a little odd for them to bother mentioning. Sorry for being so wordy, but I can't emphasize enough how wild and wooly that night was. Interestingly, I never once thought of muslim terrorist, but I sure thought the shit had hit the fan.

On preview, I thought I should mention that the explosions were only recording and, of course, the guns were blanks. But I didn't know that at the time.
posted by firemouth at 7:16 PM on April 21, 2005


I am assigned to and work at Malmstrom Air Force Base. Believe me -- there are no UN aircraft groups here.
That's exactly what I'd expect from someone who's in on it.

(note to self: smcniven knows too much...)
posted by davidmsc at 7:59 PM on April 21, 2005


Yeah, nut-job.

Under Illinois they mention the old chanute air force base that was closed down. Barracks were demolished but the medical facilities were upgraded and fences put up. Maybe because they now have a youth detention/education/rehabilitation center there that is privately owned.
posted by jmgorman at 8:08 PM on April 21, 2005


These are mostly rumors, I'm sure, but there probably are a number of such camps being prepared, I'd guess. Not just or even primarily to hold detainees, but mostly to quarantine those infected by smallpox or other biological agents in the event of such an attack. They'd be foolish if they weren't making such preparations, actually.
posted by washburn at 8:22 PM on April 21, 2005


"Opelika - Military compound either in or very near town."

Yeah, that ones called Auburn University.


"Talladega - Federal prison "satellite" camp."

And that would be the campground for the pit crews of the NASCAR Nextel cup.

If these places exist, how come I've never seen them in towns I've been in? These are in my own state. Where are they? Opelika is the town where Auburn University is located, why is it that no one there has ever noticed?
posted by nyxxxx at 8:29 PM on April 21, 2005


"American style fascism does not equal Nazism" - no, that style can also resemble 1930's Stalinism.

monjo_bosatsu - here is some supporting information :

"In a revealing admission in June, 1997, the Director of Resource Management for the U.S. Army confirmed the validity of a memorandum relating to the establishment of a civilian inmate labor program under development by the Department of the Army. The document states, "Enclosed for your review and comment is the draft Army regulation on civilian inmate labor utilization" and the procedure to "establish civilian prison camps on installations."
Amid widespread rumors, Congressman Henry Gonzales clarified the question of the

existence of civilian detention camps. In an interview, Gonzalez stated, "The truth is yes--you do have these stand by provisions, and the plans are here . . . whereby you could, in the name of stopping terrorism . . . evoke the military and arrest Americans and put them in detention camps." ( for source, legal discussion see : CIVILIAN INTERNMENT CAMPS UP FOR REVIEW


Camps for Citizens: Ashcroft's Hellish Vision Attorney general shows himself as a menace to liberty ( by Jonathan Turley, 14 August 2002, Los Angeles Times )
The background : War and Emergency Powers"
U.S. MILITARY CIVIL DISTURBANCE PLANNING: THE WAR AT HOME ( by Frank Morales ) : Under the heading of "civil disturbance planning", the U.S. military is training troops and police to suppress democratic opposition in America. The master plan, Department of Defense Civil Disturbance Plan 55-2, is code-named, "Operation Garden Plot". Originated in 1968, the "operational plan" has been updated over the last three decades, most recently in 1991, and was activated during the Los Angeles "riots" of 1992, and more than likely during the recent anti-WTO "Battle in Seattle."
Current U.S. military preparations for suppressing domestic civil disturbance, including the training of National Guard troops and police, are actually part of a long history of American "internal security" measures dating back to the first American Revolution. Generally, these measures have sought to thwart the aims of social justice movements, embodying the concept that within the civilian body politic lurks an enemy that one day the military might have to fight, or at least be ordered to fight.
Equipped with flexible "military operations in urban terrain" and "operations other than war" doctrine, lethal and "less-than-lethal" high-tech weaponry, US "armed forces" and "elite" militarized police units are being trained to eradicate "disorder", "disturbance" and "civil disobedience" in America....
Rex 84, short for Readiness Exercise 1984, was a plan by the United States federal government to accommodate the detention of large numbers of American citizens during times of emergency.
Through Rex-84 an undisclosed number of concentration camps were set in operation throughout the United States, for internment of dissidents and others potentially harmful to the state.
Existence of the Rex 84 plan was first revealed during the Iran-Contra Hearings in 1987, and subsequently reported by the Miami Herald on July 5, 1987. ( Wikipedia, REX-84 )
U.S. Plans for Martial Law, Tele-Governance, and the Suspension of Elections : When the War Hits Homeby John Stanton and Wayne Madsen ( CounterPunch)
Operation Garden Plot and FM 100-19 US Military Domestic Support Plans ( Declassified FOIA Material, by

by Donald L. Cline ) "What follows is a discussion of Operation Garden Plot, the Federal Government's plan for Civil Disturbance Control using the military. This plan developed from plans put together in the 1970's under Nixon, revised in the 1980's and had been revised under Clinton. The newer Field Manual for the US Military (FM 100-19) for Domestic Support Operations refers heavily to this Plan, particularly in chapter 7.

When becoming familiar with Operation Garden Plot and with FM 100-19, the escalation in the use of the military for civil matters and the escalated training utilizing US forces in US cities, becomes clear. These are not training exercises preparing solely for actual implementation in foreign areas. They are training exercises preparing for the prospect of implementation here in our own country. " see also : Operation Garden Plot

JTF-LAJoint Task Force Los Angeles

Domestic Terrorism: General Ashcroft's "Enemy Citizens," Martial Law and Internment Camps
Internment Camps and Authoritarian US Fast Becoming Reality
~~~~~~~~~~~
William Rhenquist, chief justice of the US Supreme Court, served as a government enforcer during the Nixon Administration. Breveted to the Justice Department in 1969, he approved the plan drawn up by Tom Houston, a White House aide, that commissioned the American military to set up prison camps for the incarceration of hundreds of thousands of opponents to the Vietnam War. Testifying before a Senate committee in 1971, Rhenquist said that it was legal, under the president's authority, to send the army to suppress rebellions and enforce the laws. In 1998 he published a book, All the Laws but One, in which he argued that in time of war, civil liberties were not to be too carefully protected" - Lewis Lapham, Gag Rule : On the Suppression of Dissent and the Stifling of Democracy, p 149."
______



Ah, but I wax extremist. Settle back into cosy slumber, O sheople of the Net.
posted by troutfishing at 8:31 PM on April 21, 2005


ah, folks, you just don't get it ... when the economy finally tanks and the people rise up against their corporate masters, the fascists will have hundreds of places ready made to imprison them

closed shopping malls ...
posted by pyramid termite at 8:52 PM on April 21, 2005


troutfishing: The master plan, Department of Defense Civil Disturbance Plan 55-2, is code-named, "Operation Garden Plot". Originated in 1968, the "operational plan" has been updated over the last three decades, most recently in 1991, and was activated during the Los Angeles "riots" of 1992, and more than likely during the recent anti-WTO "Battle in Seattle."

Sorry, nope. There was no federal involvement in the WTO fracus. It was all state and local.

What would be more surprising: that the feds had a civil disorder response plan or that they didn't have one?
posted by warbaby at 9:12 PM on April 21, 2005


One thing I feel sure about is that conspiracy-theory, as a form, was first designed as a disinformation-strategy, thinking that someday, any unlikely conspiracy would be dismissed as the ravings of lunatics. (that day is here)

This particular theory I think is bunk.

Though I do think it is interesting, Malor and Amberglow, that this kind of scenario is sounding decreasingly far-fetched.
posted by dreamsign at 9:42 PM on April 21, 2005


Thomas Pynchon wrote a great book about this: Vineland.
posted by caddis at 12:15 AM on April 22, 2005


OK, my tinfoil hat is on and it's time to crunch some numbers.

This post's number: 41415

Since 4+1=5, this post would seem to cleverly disguise the numeral 555.

This can either mean that an undead George Washington (the Washington Monument is 555 feet tall) is going to personally incarcerate those who speak out against the New American Empire in FEMA-operated prison camps, or that the government is going to crack down on Erisians. It's all true! Everything is true!

Jesus H. Ganesha, people! Why won't you see it?
posted by the_bone at 1:18 AM on April 22, 2005


caddis: yep.
posted by AlexReynolds at 7:48 AM on April 22, 2005


warbaby - "Under the heading of "civil disturbance planning", the U.S. military is training troops and police to suppress democratic opposition in America. The master plan, Department of Defense Civil Disturbance Plan 55-2, is code-named, "Operation Garden Plot". Originated in 1968, the "operational plan" has been updated over the last three decades, most recently in 1991, and was activated during the Los Angeles "riots" of 1992, and more than likely during the recent anti-WTO "Battle in Seattle."
"
Meanwhile : evasion eats brain cells. Nothing here to see, citizens.
posted by troutfishing at 11:00 PM on April 22, 2005


I bet they're camps for mad cows.

posted by hank at 4:11 PM on April 26, 2005


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