HIV Fears as Student attacks 19 classmates with Needles
April 30, 2005 10:26 AM   Subscribe

8 Year old girl attacks 19 classmates with dirty syringes. One student has already tested positive for the HIV virus.
posted by AMWKE (62 comments total)

This post was deleted for the following reason: misleading post



 
Isn't there an emergency medicine that, if used within 24 hours of infection, will purge someone of HIV (at the cost of them being extremely sick for weeks)?
posted by shepd at 10:32 AM on April 30, 2005


More info here.
Nasty kid.
posted by peacay at 10:32 AM on April 30, 2005


Wait a second...

She was suspended, Paul Vallas, the school district’s chief executive, said

SUSPENDED? What does it take to get expelled? Attempted assassination of the principal? WTF?
posted by shepd at 10:35 AM on April 30, 2005


shepd that article addresses the medicines being taken. But I think no: I don't think there's anything semi-magical like the 'morning after pill' type of thing. It's I think just retrovirals ASAP.
posted by peacay at 10:35 AM on April 30, 2005


Here's hoping it's a false positive. Out of 19 people, the odds are good. /crosses fingers.
posted by mr.curmudgeon at 10:45 AM on April 30, 2005


I think people are misreading the article. The syringe was "dirty" because it was previously used by her (non-HIV positive) diabetic mother for blood tests. The child with HIV had it before the incident.

The concern is that the children pricked by the needle after the HIV positive child may have been exposed to the virus.
posted by murphy slaw at 10:48 AM on April 30, 2005


errr....anti-retrovirals ASAP, that is.
posted by peacay at 10:59 AM on April 30, 2005


peacay: "Nasty kid."

What makes you say this? It seems like a pretty run-of-the-mill bullying incident to me, but with unforeseen[1] consequences.[2] I live across the street from an elementary school and (except for the HIV part), worse-sounding bullying happens at every recess. And when I was at elementary school, kids stabbed other kids with compasses with monotonous regularity.

[1] Could you really expect an 8-year-old to have worked out that one of the kids might have HIV and it might get transmitted this way?

[2] Probably no consequences, actually. I don't know what the chances of HIV transmission by a 2mm needle are but I bet they're low.
posted by beniamino at 11:02 AM on April 30, 2005


One in three-hundred, beniamino, according to the article. When you factor in the rather high odds of the original being a false positive, this shouldn't end up being anything to worry about.
posted by Simon! at 11:06 AM on April 30, 2005


I remember kids doing this in my grade school about 25 years ago, except we used a regular pin attached to a pencil or maybe a compass point. Back then no-one knew about AIDS and it was no big deal: up there with shooting rubber bands at each other. I don't think it's fair to demonise this kid: she is 8, she doesn't know about blood borne diseases and she is likely only copying something she's seen other kids do.
posted by fshgrl at 11:06 AM on April 30, 2005


Inflation warning; the article does not say she "attacked" her classmates, but that she pricked them. She may simply have been playing at 'nursey-nursey'.
posted by TimothyMason at 11:17 AM on April 30, 2005


This is a stupid freaking post.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 11:30 AM on April 30, 2005


A six word comment?

Who the hell are you and what have you done with Bligh?
posted by jonmc at 11:32 AM on April 30, 2005


nasty kid....What makes you say this?

beniamino, I know kids do 'stuff'. But sticking a sharp object into 19 other kids (irrespective of it being a syringe) prompted my observation that the kid is nasty. I also thought compass stabbing was a nasty business in the dim dark ages when I went to school.
I've no qualms about labelling her as a 'nasty kid'. I'm not condemning her forever, I'm not suggesting she needs psychosurgery -- I'm just saying that her actions are sufficient on my nasty-o-meter. Bad girl !
TimothyMason......she hurt people - of this I'm sure she will have been aware, irrespective of game or rhyme. No reason.
posted by peacay at 11:33 AM on April 30, 2005


MOST. MISLEADING. FPP. EVER.

a) There was no dirty syringe, it was a solid pin-prick needles that diabetics use to get a drop of blood for testing.
"Transmission of HIV with a solid needle is very, very rare and extremely unlikely," said Neil O. Fishman, director of hospital epidemiology and infection control for the University of Pennsylvania Health System.
b) The child that tested positive for HIV already had it. The worry is that their blood may have contaminated the other children, which as seen above is unlikely.

And as mentioned above, the children are all on Retrovir and Epivir, which is highly effective at stopping HIV from taking root.

In fairness to the poster, the Times Online article is pretty weak. Here's one in the Philadelhia Enquirer
posted by AaRdVarK at 11:36 AM on April 30, 2005


MOST. MISLEADING. FPP. EVER.
Is that official?
posted by TimothyMason at 11:39 AM on April 30, 2005


I've seen worse.
posted by calwatch at 11:44 AM on April 30, 2005


It is pretty misleading.
posted by peacay at 11:45 AM on April 30, 2005


You might want to point to a Philadelphia are paper like The Philadelphia Inquirer. Registration required, use bugmenot. As you might imagine, this is the subject of incredible amount of attention hereabouts. It might help to ge the facts right, though. A diabetic testing needle.
posted by fixedgear at 11:54 AM on April 30, 2005


Now, if she had been 13, and perhaps, let's say, how about...oh yeah, pregnant.... THEN we would have something to talk about, eh?
posted by HuronBob at 11:58 AM on April 30, 2005


SUSPENDED? What does it take to get expelled? Attempted assassination of the principal?

Nah, I think a 30-inch burrito would do the trick.
posted by Oriole Adams at 11:59 AM on April 30, 2005


The fact that so many people think HIV is detectable in the bloodstream immediately after exposure- the fact that so many people think the kid who tested positive for HIV actually got it from the pinprick- shows how fucking deplorable the state of HIV/AIDS awareness is.

also, it was NOT A SYRINGE. it was one of those lancet things diabetic people use to prick their fingers with.

repeat: NOT. A. SYRINGE.
posted by elisabeth r at 11:59 AM on April 30, 2005


I like pancakes.
posted by ZachsMind at 12:04 PM on April 30, 2005


This is an atrociously terrible post.
posted by josh at 12:08 PM on April 30, 2005


3 word comment?

Apparently they got Zach, too.
posted by jonmc at 12:10 PM on April 30, 2005


[hijack]
I voted for Paul Vallas in the IL gubernatorial primary
[/hijack]

Back in the day, it was kind of a thing for people to become "blood brothers" and "blood sisters" by each pricking their fingers with a pin or some other sharp objects, then holding the fingers together. I suppose that is not done anymore...what we didn't know back then.
posted by SisterHavana at 12:12 PM on April 30, 2005


i have to agree: MOST. MISLEADING. FPP. EVER
the two sentences in the post are entirely unrelated.
posted by ra at 12:14 PM on April 30, 2005


Let's all calm down here; Bayes Law says the kid who tested positive probably isn't. Indiscriminate testing of people who have no obvious risk factors (and "pricked with a needle used by an HIV-neg diabetes patient" shouldn't count as a risk factor) where a disease has such a low prevalence rate (around 0.5% in US adults, dunno for children) will result in far more false positives than true ones. I'll bet all these kids are fine, though at least one is in for quite a barrage of further testing at this point.
posted by rkent at 12:25 PM on April 30, 2005


P.s. since this thread has already gotten silly: "HIV virus" is like "ATM machine" and "hot water heater." See also redundant. And it's repetitious.
posted by rkent at 12:26 PM on April 30, 2005


Ummmmmmmmm. You people stabbed each other in elementary?

Okay then.
posted by blacklite at 12:28 PM on April 30, 2005


Okay - Even if an 8-yr old HAD ACTUALLY stabbed hella kids with a dirty syringe, think about it. The kid is EIGHT. She almost surely has no concept of AIDS, transmission vectors, or what she's doing. Probably she saw the syringe/needle/pinprick deely being used at home and wanted to impress her friends by pricking them, sort of a show n tell thing.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 12:40 PM on April 30, 2005


The kid probably saw her mom pricking herself to test blood sugar levels. At that age, who hasn't tried to copy the adults around them? And yeah, blood sisters/brothers was a pretty common moment. Expulsion isn't exactly the way to go here; it's a teaching moment for the entire school, not the way to kick the kid out. AMWKE are you the person that does the ledes for 20/20?
posted by fionab at 12:50 PM on April 30, 2005


a vote for expunging this post/thread
posted by edgeways at 1:06 PM on April 30, 2005


Three words are not enough, eh? Well I was visited by the pod people last night. They gave me pancakes. Perhaps I'm not myself today.

When I was in third grade, stabbing was not much of an issue. I was once held fast by several other kids and forced to kiss the ugliest girl in school who smelled like sausages. I don't recall any needles involved, but it was pretty awful. Other kids used to perform mock marriages on each other and oftentimes at least one party in question was most certainly not there of his or her own volition. Fortunately that one never happened to me, but I was browbeaten into succumbing to peer pressure and functioning as a witness a few times.

As I'm sure most already presume, I was quite the functional punching bag for bullies throughout elementary school. On several occasions I recall being held down and threatened, occasionally punched in the face. Lots of fun. Learning experiences. It builds character and all that. Good times. Again, I don't remember any needles involved.

My older sister once almost got stabbed when she was in high school, causing her to feign sickness for several days until my parents investigated to find the true cause of her 'taking ill.' It was a knife though. Not a needle. And she just happened to be next to the guy actually being stabbed when it happened. She was several inches away from hospitalization, but it was close enough to freak her out.

Considering that nowadays kids are taking guns to school, causing many schools to require metal detectors, I think an occasional needle or 'pin' is actually a welcome change.

I still like pancakes. This is a silly thread.
posted by ZachsMind at 1:08 PM on April 30, 2005


It's a very silly newspaper report. And why on earth the London Times is talking about a minor incident in an American school, I can't imagine.
posted by TimothyMason at 1:16 PM on April 30, 2005


I thought someone with an expected exposure is given immune globulin shots immediately. This is something that was done for a friend of mine stuck with a needle while picking up trash in his yard in a seedy part of LA, and this is what my anatomy professor told me as an aside during our immune system lecture recently (I'm studying nursing). My needle-stuck friend was not put on anti-retorvirals. Can anyone explain why these similar incidents would be treated differently?
posted by metoo at 1:17 PM on April 30, 2005


[This is shitass]
posted by dobbs at 1:19 PM on April 30, 2005


[Yes it is shitass, but I like the sillier threads because they're often more entertaining.]
posted by ZachsMind at 1:22 PM on April 30, 2005


...the ugliest girl in school who smelled like sausages...

Zach: At your elementary school, y'all catagorized ugly girls by what they smelled like?

I vastly prefer waffles to pancakes.
posted by warbaby at 1:35 PM on April 30, 2005


Argh. As someone said up above, far too many people don't know shit about this virus. Go do some reading. It's sort of important.

Drug therapy after likely HIV exposure is called post-exposure prophylaxis.
posted by stonerose at 1:37 PM on April 30, 2005


warbaby writes " I vastly prefer waffles to pancakes."

Meh. Eggs Benedict trump all other breakfasts!
posted by clevershark at 1:42 PM on April 30, 2005


the most shocking thing about this story is that she pricked people throughout the day. Breakfast, Recess and Lunch. This makes it sound more like she brought this thing in for show and tell, and dared people to get pricked.
posted by Busithoth at 1:52 PM on April 30, 2005


Special K with banana!
posted by thirteenkiller at 1:58 PM on April 30, 2005


Meh. Eggs Benedict trump all other breakfasts!

You've obviously never had Irish Breakfast. Although, this Irish Breakfast has it's pluses as well.
posted by jonmc at 2:08 PM on April 30, 2005


Eggs, bacon, home fries, some rye toast and a cup of watery coffee.
posted by underer at 2:09 PM on April 30, 2005


Bacon.
posted by alpinist at 2:13 PM on April 30, 2005


Awful post. This kid uses a lancet on some classmates and the headline implies that the kid stabbed classmates with a syringe and has already infected one with HIV. It should probably be deleted. AMWKE should take a job writing headlines for the National Enquirer.
posted by caddis at 2:13 PM on April 30, 2005


WRONG! You all had Special K with BANANA!
posted by thirteenkiller at 2:35 PM on April 30, 2005


Thirteen: WTF? I'm allergic to bananas, anyway.
posted by SpecialK at 2:40 PM on April 30, 2005


Meh. Eggs Benedict trump all other breakfasts!

[repo man]The hell it does.[/repo man] Biscuits 'n' gravy southern-style, ya dinks, preferably served by Elmo's Diner in Carrboro.

It's the breakfast equivalent of taking off and nuking the site from orbit.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:52 PM on April 30, 2005


Special K with banana? :/
posted by thirteenkiller at 3:00 PM on April 30, 2005


metoo - immune globulin is given as post-exposure prophylaxis for hepatitis B
posted by tristeza at 3:01 PM on April 30, 2005


I had a bacon roll this morning.
posted by sgt.serenity at 3:02 PM on April 30, 2005


I had a bacon roll this morning.

WRONG
posted by thirteenkiller at 3:05 PM on April 30, 2005


I'll take a 30 inch breakfast burrito to go, and a pack of lancets please.
posted by caddis at 3:12 PM on April 30, 2005


What does it take to get expelled?

Male, the ability to form your hand into the shape of a pistol, and the lungs for shouting BANG! BANG! on the playground.

...shows how fucking deplorable the state of HIV/AIDS awareness is.

Oh please.

Probably she saw the syringe/needle/pinprick deely being used at home and wanted to impress her friends by pricking them, sort of a show n tell thing.


Come again?
posted by Witty at 3:33 PM on April 30, 2005


Am I geek if I get what thirteenkiller is referencing?
posted by turaho at 3:43 PM on April 30, 2005


How is it that none of the kids kicked her ass and took the needle from her after she did it? Do I not remember what it was like to be 8?
posted by flarbuse at 3:48 PM on April 30, 2005


I had an epiphany this morning - all Dunkin' Donuts doughnuts taste exactly the same.

The epiphany, however, was tasty.
posted by yhbc at 3:50 PM on April 30, 2005


You people stabbed each other in elementary?

Explains a lot, doesn't it?

And y'all do know it's almost impossible to get infected with HIV this way, right? How much blood do you think was on the poking object? How much time elapsed between pokings throughout the day? HIV begins to die very quickly when exposed to the air. Concern is called for, ok, but unless there was visible blood from one kid being pushed inside the body of another, there's practically zero chance anyone got infected here. Btw, I thought this quote from a mom in the Globe was odd:

'He's asking me what does the word AIDS mean, and I don't know how to explain to him what does it mean..."

Really? You can't explain the concept of disease? What's difficult to explain about viruses to a 10-year-old? God I hope she's not thinking she has to explain homosexuality to him now.
posted by mediareport at 3:59 PM on April 30, 2005


I like my pancakes with butter.
posted by johnj at 4:32 PM on April 30, 2005


I had an epiphany this morning - all Dunkin' Donuts doughnuts taste exactly the same.

I had the opposite epiphany about 7 years ago. I brought a dozen Dunkins into work for my co-workers. One of my co-workers got upset with me because after biting into what he thought was a standard jelly dougnut he was suprised that it was lemon flavored. I explained that they didn't have Whitman Sampler style maps for doghnuts yet. There's just no pleasing some people.
posted by jonmc at 4:34 PM on April 30, 2005


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