An Open Letter To Tim Burton

May 17, 2005 12:57 PM

“This is not a costumed event.” A writer for Twitch Films was invited to attend a marketing preview of Tim Burton's new film 'Charlie and the Chocolate Factory', but was turned away because the friends he had with him were goths. Don't they know Mr Burton's audience? It's all very ironic considering how Johnny Depp looks in the film.
posted by feelinglistless (140 comments total)

Sort of on-topic, but the first preview I saw for this looked really awful. Depp seemed to be playing Wonka all wrong. Of course, I haven't read the book, so I'm comparing him to Wilder's performance, so maybe that's the way that Wonka "should" be, but I really don't care.
posted by papakwanz at 1:02 PM on May 17, 2005

Well, that's what you get for dressing like an idiot. You certainly couldn't get in to a nice restaurant looking like that!
posted by kjh at 1:06 PM on May 17, 2005

Isn't dressing up like a goth so very late 90's?

I hope Depp can pull off playing Wonka, Gene Wilder left some damned big shoes to fill.
posted by fenriq at 1:11 PM on May 17, 2005

That still from the film makes me feel very...sad.
posted by stinkycheese at 1:13 PM on May 17, 2005

That’s blatant discrimination.

I only wish more cinemas were discriminating. Honestly, so what if they dress that way every day? If they dressed as storm troopers every day they'd still be in costume on one particular day. And they'd still look like pillocks. And for God's sake what kind of self respecting goth only has a cloak and not a trench coat too? Is Burtons' audience mostly goths? Doesn't seem likely. And how repulsive to try and guilt Burton into doing something via an open letter.
posted by biffa at 1:13 PM on May 17, 2005

Oh god, boo-fucking-hoo.

I can't get into bars with sneakers on, but I don't write 5 page letters to no one and post them on the internet. Dude thinks he's "Doing [his] Part To Keep America’s Film Culture From Devolving Into What America’s Music Culture Already Has" by whining on his blog?

What a supreme jackass.
posted by SweetJesus at 1:13 PM on May 17, 2005

I think the letter would have been stronger without the aging goth photos. That said, I'm surprised that anyone would be so excited to see a Tim Burton film. With Johnny Depp.

Ok, I think that's everyone I wanted to insult today. Back to work.
posted by Outlawyr at 1:15 PM on May 17, 2005

Yeah, there's some irony here about the goth folks, I guess, but this Canfield guy should learn how to write a letter. And how to make a scene ("So much for the land of the free and the brave"???).

If anyone do Wonka post-Wilder, Depp can. I think there's room in the part for him -- Wilder was fantastic, but he departed quite a bit from the book's Wonka, and I'm sure Depp can pull it in a different direction altogether.
posted by gurple at 1:16 PM on May 17, 2005

I must confess to experiencing difficulty reconciling my contempt for the typically loathesome marketing lackey described with a sense of contented amusement over those goofy middle-aged goths getting their fan-bubble popped.

They look as embarrassingly preposterous as my uncle who still wore his 1950's teen greaser Fonzie get-up and pompadour when he was well into his 60's. *Shudder*
posted by MaxVonCretin at 1:16 PM on May 17, 2005

I think I shall form a subculture dressing up as pirates, then we will start fights with goths and ninjas.
posted by drezdn at 1:20 PM on May 17, 2005

How they dressed (and what makeup they wore) wasn't half as bad as the sad "this is my event" comment made by that PR lackey. Event? It's a frickin' screening get over yourself.
posted by dabitch at 1:21 PM on May 17, 2005

Goth? They just look regular to me.
posted by scratch at 1:22 PM on May 17, 2005

drezdn, you let me know where the first fight is and I'll be there to capture it for posterity. My money's on the ninjas though.
posted by fenriq at 1:25 PM on May 17, 2005

"I think I said something to the crowd behind us like, “Don’t expect to see a Tim Burton movie if you’re a Goth. So much for the land of the free and the brave.”

I apologize for that. I just wanted to see Peter Larkin squirm a little. Maybe he was just doing his job but in my opinion he did it badly."

I think he has the words "squirm" and "chuckle" confused.
posted by Bugbread at 1:26 PM on May 17, 2005

Now, if they had dressed as Visigoths, I could see where there would be an issue...

I won't even get into those filthy Ostrogoths...(shudder)
posted by Darkman at 1:32 PM on May 17, 2005

One of my nightmares is having to sit next to pretentious people who want attention. And they look wicked pretentious and they definitely want attention.

They also look like they smell of b.o., Dunhills and fake absinthe. So the PR assistant prety much saved someone else's evening.
posted by Mayor Curley at 1:35 PM on May 17, 2005

Metafilter: Don’t expect to see a Tim Burton movie if you’re a Goth.
posted by Outlawyr at 1:36 PM on May 17, 2005

They don't look very goth to me. Where's the eyeliner? Where's the hairspray and the pentagram tattoos? Did they only allow people with brightly-colored clothing into this screening?
posted by fungible at 1:39 PM on May 17, 2005

Fenriq, it's a deal as long as you promise to notify my next of kin.
posted by drezdn at 1:44 PM on May 17, 2005

I think as long as you don't stink* or scare children you should be allowed into such events as you are invited to. That having been said Goths just make me laugh and laugh and laugh. I appreciate when people stick to a point against all logic, taste and decency, but Goths are my personal reptilian hind-brain trigger for hilarity, just as I have a friend who cannot approach within about ten feet of a dwarf or midget without laughing and giggling in the most offensive way.

One of my favorite things to do in the old days was go out on a hot summer day in New York City, get high and laugh at pale people dressed in fishnets and dark velvet and massive eyeshadow trying to stalk around and act all morbid and doomed while little fucking birds tweet around in the clear blue sky and kids eat ice cream cones. I am a sinner for sure.

I was psyched for Depp as Wonka, but I have grave doubts based on the few trailers I've seen.

(*They also look like they smell of b.o., Dunhills and fake absinthe.That is just purely too accurate, I got a whiff of that, Dunhills or horror of horrors, cloves.)
posted by Divine_Wino at 1:45 PM on May 17, 2005

It's hard for me to sympathize with someone who can't write to save his life.
posted by hopeless romantique at 1:47 PM on May 17, 2005

MetaFilter: My personal reptilian hind-brain trigger for hilarity.

Thanks Divine_Wino!
posted by fenriq at 1:48 PM on May 17, 2005

One of my nightmares is having to sit next to pretentious people who want attention. And they look wicked pretentious and they definitely want attention.


A. fucking. men.
posted by docpops at 1:56 PM on May 17, 2005

My money's on the ninjas though.

I wouldn't be so sure; pirates have artillery.
posted by prak at 2:00 PM on May 17, 2005

Weird. I caught the last five seconds of a trailer and actually heard about a split second of Depp, whom I typically love, speak to one of the characters, and all I could do was think, wow, it sounds all wrong.
posted by docpops at 2:03 PM on May 17, 2005

You guys are missing the point. As you know - Tim Burton invented the Goth with Edward Scissorhands. Thus, when ugly misfits are refused entry to a pre-screening of his latest flick, starring the very actor who played the very first Gothic ugly misfit (I mean, come on - his dad was Vincent Price) - it could be said that Burton and Depp are personally spitting in the whited out, eyelined faces of the fans whose backs they crawled up wearing hobnailed boots to become the iconic superstars they are. Sure, Scott Shaw is ugly enough to be personally offensive to The Society for the Promotion of Ugly People - but the fact remains that not even I can take this seriously enough to finish this paragraph.

Makes me long for the days of Newsfilter.
posted by Sparx at 2:11 PM on May 17, 2005

Regardless of what you think of goths, it's a little ridiculous that they'd kick a goth out of a Burton preview. Tim Burton himself has been a goth for years, or at least looks the part with that whole mopey mumbling genius with Robert Smith hair. Burton's cinematic style borrows heavily from goth culture. Like it or not, it's a misstep from a PR standpoint because goths are generally Tim Burton fans. It would be a lot like a DC Comics rep kicking goths out of a Neil Gaiman signing, or security not allowing goths into a Cure concert.
posted by MegoSteve at 2:18 PM on May 17, 2005

It's hard for me to sympathize with someone who can't write to save his life.

Elitist a bit, aren't we?

I read Twitch Film on a daily basis and yes, they are no Henry David Thoreau (neither am I, for the record). But they are fans with passion, and that means more to me (and most with a heart / some class) than anyone that would ignore the point of the issue over some less-than stellar but passionate writing.
posted by mediamelt at 2:25 PM on May 17, 2005

This movie sure does look terrible. I really hope it's not, but it ain't looking good. That said, there's no way pirates would beat ninjas, man.
posted by puke & cry at 2:28 PM on May 17, 2005

They look as embarrassingly preposterous as my uncle who still wore his 1950's teen greaser Fonzie get-up and pompadour when he was well into his 60's.

What, would you prefer he dress up in tattered jeans, thermals, and flannel?
posted by keswick at 2:30 PM on May 17, 2005

This is fucked up.

Normally, I'm just a lurker around here, enjoying the view, leeching some nice links.

Do you all realize that almost all the comments above are personal attacks on the people thrown out of an event they were invited to?

If this had been a discussion about the marketing people's right of turning away people, fine. Then it could have turned into a discussion about the right of people to express themselves versus the right of people organizing quasi public events to select who is allowed to attend. That would have been worthwhile.

You all should be ashamed and out of spite I want to see everyone of you thrown out of some public place for no reason at all. Then we'll see a great amount of posts about first amendment rights, being allowed to be the person that you are and the general unfairness of life again. Just as usual :-)

This was my contribution to bickerfilter.
posted by mmkhd at 2:32 PM on May 17, 2005

For shame!!!
posted by SweetJesus at 2:40 PM on May 17, 2005

Dress like a normal human being and not an adolescent attention whore, and I might care. There's a million other things way more pressing than crying these yahoos.

on preview: I just clicked the link. Those are some ugly, ugly people.
posted by keswick at 2:43 PM on May 17, 2005

I'm (pretty much) with mmkhd. Those guys were hosed. Put down by the Man for being who they are. I think goths are a bit absurd and I think those people looked more than a bit absurd, but my reaction to their story was sympathy rather than mockery or belittlement.

Where's the love, people?
posted by AgentRocket at 2:44 PM on May 17, 2005

mmkhd, sorry, I have been taught that you're supposed to laugh at clowns, these people look like clowns so I'm laughing.

And I don't think they were invited, I think the author was invited and brought along his posse.

Sorry the thread didn't go as you had wished and planned, oh lurkerone.

puke & cry, yep, smart money's on ninjas, they've got bombs and shurikens and guile! It would be fun watching them mow through some aging goths!
posted by fenriq at 2:45 PM on May 17, 2005

"I want to see everyone of you thrown out of some public place for no reason at all."

Been there, done that. My first reaction was not to post a poorly written letter where the whole world could read it.
posted by Outlawyr at 2:45 PM on May 17, 2005

AgentRocket, I must have left the love in my other jeans. All these have got is scorn and sarcasm.
posted by fenriq at 2:46 PM on May 17, 2005

i have to agree with mmkhd - these posts highlight some of the ugliest human sides i've seen on metafilter..
posted by quaeler at 2:47 PM on May 17, 2005

Well at least we know who the MeFi goths are now.
posted by keswick at 2:54 PM on May 17, 2005

Isn't dressing up like a goth so very late 90's?

I thought that too, until I went to the Nine Inch Nails concert last week. Then I remembered it was never cool at all.
posted by knave at 3:03 PM on May 17, 2005

"I want to see everyone of you thrown out of some public place for no reason at all."

Or a private screening of a movie. Either way.
posted by I EAT TAPES at 3:09 PM on May 17, 2005

Wow! Most of guys sure sound like my Okie Grandpa's ignorant fishing buddies today.

Thank god I'm not a goth, whew! But I still hope what I am wearing isn't too "distracting," to your normal life. Or that I'm not too (potentially) "stinky" for you guys.

Jesus. I'll come back in a couple weeks, maybe some of you will have gone off to jackass camp or something.
posted by Kloryne at 3:19 PM on May 17, 2005

Yeah, I think the 'goths' pictured in the letter look weird and totally un-cool. But why in the world were they invited in the first place if they weren't wanted? It's pretty lame of the promoters/organizers of the event.
posted by raedyn at 3:23 PM on May 17, 2005

You must be new here. You want love, go to MoFi. MeFi is teh snark.

(proud to be an okie from muskogee)
posted by keswick at 3:25 PM on May 17, 2005

And I don't think they were invited, I think the author was invited and brought along his posse.

Nope, fenriq, both the male protagonists were invited.
(Pirates have parrots, don't underestimate the parrots).

"I want to see everyone of you thrown out of some public place for no reason at all."

Been there, done that. My first reaction was not to post a poorly written letter where the whole world could read it.

Ah, but wouldn't you have felt better :-)

gentRocket, I must have left the love in my other jeans. All these have got is scorn and sarcasm.

So they are the "stonewashed" kind?

Well at least we know who the MeFi goths are now.

Actually, keswick, I am a chubby, young republican looking kinda guy. But deeeeeeeeep inside I want to be a goth with mascara and weltschmerz. But hey I get over it and turn up the volume on my Britney Shpearsh recordsh.

And admit it people, don't we all want to own a CLOAK ? (not wear it, mind you)
posted by mmkhd at 3:28 PM on May 17, 2005

Making fun of Goths is the work of self-loathing anti-semitic redneck gay-baiters.
posted by docpops at 3:29 PM on May 17, 2005

Making fun of Goths is the work of self-loathing anti-semitic redneck gay-baiters.

Didn't you want to say: "Making fun of those Goths is like kicking puppys" ?

I think if you give people an invitation to a private screening, even if that written invitation was rendered by some underpaid lackey handing out flyers, you have to admit those people you gave invitations to.
posted by mmkhd at 3:37 PM on May 17, 2005

Yep, I'm with mmkhd. All the haters sound like exclusionary frat boys. "You don't look like me, so you can't join!" (I myself look like a preppy WASP and I will never be kicked out of anything ever.)

I have been taught that you're supposed to laugh at clowns, these people look like clowns so I'm laughing.

Hmm. Pretty good. I haven't seen something that stupid on Metafilter in a loong time. You've got some decent competition, but that's a doozy.

No one needs their wardrobe validated. If there was a specific dress code (mentioned in the invitation) that they violated, it's one thing. But arbitrary distinctions, based on the fact that people are considered "ugly," is insulting, albeit par for the course.

The fact that many of you would like to see such arbitrary standards enforced at all public events is discouraging, although slightly humorous, as you're all a bunch of fat fucks.

This is my event, a private party and they aren’t getting in.

As much as they whine, this guy's surely in his rights to act like an asshole. Yay for Hollywood! More validation to steal movies. I hope the whole industry collapses.
posted by mrgrimm at 3:40 PM on May 17, 2005

mmkhd, thanks for the clarification. Maybe they were invited so they could be denied admission?

And I have several cloaks, I keep all of my daggers in them.

As for my jeans, nah, they were washed in the tears of goths and dweebs. Extra soft on my hiney.

I think, and this is speaking solely for myself, that I think goths are funny because they want to non conform and yet they all look the same. They want to be outside of mainstream society and yet they crave the attention from it. That's funny to me. But I'm also probably not "getting it".

As for this bit I am a chubby, young republican looking kinda guy, come on you can't be that ugly.
posted by fenriq at 3:45 PM on May 17, 2005

I can't believe how quickly this devolved into caring about goths and peoples' rights!
posted by Falconetti at 3:54 PM on May 17, 2005

man, if hating and mocking goths is wrong, i just don't want to be right.
posted by keswick at 3:56 PM on May 17, 2005

mmkhd, thanks for the clarification. Maybe they were invited so they could be denied admission?

A truly devious plot!

As for this bit I am a chubby, young republican looking kinda guy, come on you can't be that ugly.

Awwwww, you're right, not that ugly, but it already made me stand outside of the mainstream and you satisfied my craving for attention. :-)

And instead of cloak and dagger, I prefer a cloak and cane with a nasty concealed inside. (And of course some poison in the hollow knob)
posted by mmkhd at 3:57 PM on May 17, 2005

And instead of cloak and dagger, I prefer a cloak and cane with a nasty concealed inside. (And of course some poison in the hollow knob)

A nasty blade, BLADE concealed inside. And mentioning the word "knob" wasn't too wise either.
posted by mmkhd at 4:01 PM on May 17, 2005

Who are you calling a fat fuck, Mrgrimm? My bodyfat is currently around 15% and I am extraordinarily pretty. I am therefore completely within my rights to comment on everybody else's physical appearance in whatever manner I so choose. And as for you, Mrgrimm (or should I say... Miss Hilton) at least I don't have to 'accidentally' release amateur pr0n to get my wardrobe validated. Tell it to tinkerbell.

In other words - some guy complaining to the entire internet (with PHOTOGRAPHS!) because he didn't get something for free before everyone else is, in all honesty, like walking around with a huge 'kick me, I'm a steaming great git' sign. And I for one and happy to oblige.
posted by Sparx at 4:01 PM on May 17, 2005

sheesh, they didn't look that weird to me in the pictures. i think seattle must be awfully different from the rest of the country because that goth couple could get into most restaurants wearing that and not even garner a second look.
posted by Bear at 4:03 PM on May 17, 2005

Damn. I wasn't expecting this reaction. I just thought it was an ironic situation. In a way, I feel sorry that I posted it.

Basically what Steve said.
posted by feelinglistless at 4:04 PM on May 17, 2005

AM happy to oblige. Damnable correctly spelled typos.

Also, the goth thing? That's just gravy. Groovy gravy, baby.
posted by Sparx at 4:05 PM on May 17, 2005

Hello!

Did someone call for a waambulance?
posted by onanon at 4:10 PM on May 17, 2005

So, to summarise the main points of this conversation:

Pirates:

• Artillery
• Cutlasses
• Parrots.

Ninjas:

• Stealth
• Guile
• Shuriken.

Goths:

• Ugly
• Smell
• Cloaks.

posted by blag at 4:16 PM on May 17, 2005

Christ, since when is MeFi populated by middle-aged homemakers from 1983? I feel like I've wandered into the Twilight Zone, here.
posted by mr_roboto at 4:21 PM on May 17, 2005

Since when has it been Goth Talk with Circe Nightshade & Azrael Abyss, Prince of Sorrow?
posted by keswick at 4:27 PM on May 17, 2005

Look, if I can't make fun of Goths then all that's left is anyone that attends Renaissance Festivals, and that is truly hunting carp in a barrel.
posted by docpops at 4:28 PM on May 17, 2005

Hey: don't get me wrong; I've got no problem with mocking goths. But it looks like posters in this thread are gleefully celebrating the fact that these people got kicked out of the screening. That just strikes me as a little....what's the word....fratty? Assholic? Abercrombic?

I mean, you people are actually siding with the little power-tripping marketing guy. Ugh.
posted by mr_roboto at 4:40 PM on May 17, 2005

A girl's got to have standards.
posted by keswick at 4:41 PM on May 17, 2005

Man, I read through all this, and I figure I'll have a look at these pictures to check out the horrible gothic getups, and you give me this? What? For this you disturb me? I was expecting visible piercings at least.

Also, dressing up as a goth would be so late '90's if it weren't, you know, late '80's, or late '70's, whichever.
posted by furiousthought at 4:44 PM on May 17, 2005

That is lame that a PR guy has so much power. Or maybe so little power in the rest of his life that he has to squeeze in all power tripping during his planned events.

What is Tim Burton supposed to do about all this? Sounds to me like these guys are trying to get some free Edward Scissorhand action figures personally signed by Burton or some other fanboy shwag as consolation. Could they really think that Tim will fire the marketing company over this and never work with them again, or even dish out a finger wagging and stern warning never to do it again? I guess they do.
posted by chowder at 4:47 PM on May 17, 2005

Man, this thread really brought out the xenophobic asshole in everyone. Maybe Boston has a lot more strange-looking people than most places, but I wouldn't have looked twice if I walked past that couple in the street. I mean, sure, everyone deserves a little mocking sometimes, and goths certainly make themselves easy targets, but this pileon of "LOL tehy got wht they deserved for lookin wierd!11!!11!!" is sort of sickening.
posted by ubersturm at 4:49 PM on May 17, 2005

Metafilter: I am extraordinarily pretty.
posted by loquacious at 4:50 PM on May 17, 2005

My money's on the pirates. Of course, that's because I'll be fighting on their side.
(Come to think of it, my wife, who is Japanese, was telling me her ancestors were likely pirates... ooh! Can I be a Ninja Pirate?)

I also think the goths got a raw deal, but goth guys in general are still pretty ridiculous. (The girls can be pretty hot, on occasion.)
posted by bashos_frog at 4:52 PM on May 17, 2005

"I’m publishing this, Tim, mainly because I would really like to see something happen as a result."

What? What is the something? What would satisfy these people? I bet an autographed Edward Scissorhands action figure would do the trick.
posted by chowder at 4:53 PM on May 17, 2005

This can't be the same Metafilter that just a few months ago was screaming about free speech and rights when some people were removed from Bush events due to Kerry bumper stickers on their cars or for wearing the wrong tee shirt ... can it?

Oh, but these are goths, so it's perfectly acceptable to harass them for what they are wearing ... right ... because they aren't as wonderful as the members of Mefi.

Amen, ubersturm, these people wouldn't have registered as a blip on my weirdness radar. I might not even have thought they were goths at all, if I even noticed them. I see stranger get-ups than that walking around downtown in broad daylight around here. And yeah ... the reaction here is pretty sickening.

And people wonder why I don't go to Mefi meetups ...
posted by Orb at 4:56 PM on May 17, 2005

Since when has it been Goth Talk with Circe Nightshade & Azrael Abyss, Prince of Sorrow?

This is immediately what came to mind when i saw this...i laughed hard enough to make everyone in the office stare at me (I may have even snorted.)

BTW, I was a quasi-goth back in the 90s when it was apparently just tolerated...went to a couple NIN shows and put black lipstick on for a while, then i found punk...the rest is history...
posted by schyler523 at 5:02 PM on May 17, 2005

In most high schools, Goths are at the bottom, socially. But then there's the real losers, who want to be cool and preppy but aren't. Those are the true goth haters.
posted by chaz at 5:10 PM on May 17, 2005

Abercrombic?

Excellent coinage, mr_roboto! I'm going to start putting it into use the first chance I get. And as far as mocking goths goes: that's like the social dynamic equivalent of Paris Hilton wearing a new wave-y striped miniskirt -- about as lamely mid-'80s retro as it gets.

Of far more import is the fact that the trailer for the movie looks fucking awful.
posted by scody at 5:11 PM on May 17, 2005

Goth people take themselves soooo seriously. I guess that's pretty much the whole point. I love seeing goth-stylin' couples in the supermarket arguing about which flavor doritos to buy.
posted by longsleeves at 5:20 PM on May 17, 2005

Wow, goths being denied entrance to a Tim Burton movie. What's next? Kicking them out of Hot Topic stores and Sisters of Mercy concerts?

But then, they're goths so I guess it's open season for metafilter.
posted by Kellydamnit at 5:22 PM on May 17, 2005

Way to go writing to Tim Burton, guys. The man's so far out in the Hollywood wilderness he's got slightly less pull in the industry than OJ. Brother needs a hit, brother needs one bad, and I don't think he really gives a single thing whether you were mistreated or not.
posted by John Shaft at 5:28 PM on May 17, 2005

Goth people take themselves soooo seriously

Shitcock. Quick, someone drive me to American Eagle. I don't have the requisite number of striped shirts!

I thought we were against little marketing nebbishes.
posted by hototogisu at 5:38 PM on May 17, 2005

If only they had thought to wear "I {Heart} Vaginas" buttons.

It's a sad day when one can't even wear their nice velvet cloak for an evening out. 90's-throwback "adolescent attention whore" look or not, at least it's not as tiresome as the national uniform of t-shirts and sneakers/blue button-downs & khakis made official in the Reagan Years and still going strong.
posted by obloquy at 5:47 PM on May 17, 2005

As you know - Tim Burton invented the Goth with Edward Scissorhands.
Um, no--no he didn't. Go way further back to the mid-late 70s, picking up bits and pieces on the way forward.

This is a dumb move on the PR people's part, especially now that it's getting so much attention. I know what movie i'll be searching for, torrentwise. (and i don't have high hopes for it--the ads have been awful, and Depp is good, but no Wilder)
posted by amberglow at 5:48 PM on May 17, 2005

It's a lot easier to pick out an outfit in the morning when everything you own is black. That said, that PR guy was a pathetic, power-tripping twit. Even after "Mars Attacks" and "Planet of the Apes," I still have enough respect for Tim Burton to think that he might consider shopping for a new PR agency (assuming, of course, that they weren't just hired by the distributing studio, which is probably the case).
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:49 PM on May 17, 2005

Yeah FOB, I was thinking it's unrealistic to believe Tim has direct oversight over what PR agency is promoting his movies. If he is doing that much work on the business end of things, then he doesn't have as much time to create new properties and ideas. To think that he is the creates the stories, concepts, art, ideas, concepts, costumes, makeup, does payroll, hires new employees, answers the phones... well that's just silly but my point is the work is split up and he may not be connected to the business side. I've got to stop dwelling on this.
posted by chowder at 5:58 PM on May 17, 2005

"Quick, someone drive me to American Eagle."

Borrow your Mom's car and drive yourself.
posted by longsleeves at 5:59 PM on May 17, 2005

I didn't realize this was one of MetaFilter's secret tenets. For a bunch of god-hating liberals, we sure do like to laugh at "the goths". All of them. I guess it would resonate a bit more if these people looked like Bauhaus circa 1981, but this was pretty damn mundane. I guess I just didn't realize we all lived in Overland Park, KC.

longsleeves: you must have settled for the gyro.
posted by hototogisu at 6:25 PM on May 17, 2005

as tiresome as the national uniform of t-shirts and sneakers...made official in the Reagan Years

Hey now. Watch what you say about my uniform. And don't forget the bluejeans, they bring the whole ensemble together.
posted by djeo at 6:36 PM on May 17, 2005

must have settled for the gyro.
Howtoginsu: I guess I'm supposed to know what that means. Are you referring to lamb sausage with cucumber sauce on a pita? AAgghhh...
*promises this is last post on this thread, admits to wearing eyeliner to a bar once in 1983.*
posted by longsleeves at 6:47 PM on May 17, 2005

lwngleaves: for someone so willing to laugh at a couple refused entrance to a movie because their subculture takes itself "soooo" (four o's, wow!) seriously you have a terrible time reading full responses, and a pretty shabby wit.

I'm done too.
*has never worn eyeliner. Will never wear eyeliner.*
posted by hototogisu at 6:52 PM on May 17, 2005

I hate Johnny Depp. And I hate him even more for violating one of my cherished childhood memories by doing this dumbass remake. Burn in hell, pretty boy.
posted by jonmc at 6:52 PM on May 17, 2005

As you know - Tim Burton invented the Goth with Edward Scissorhands.
Um, no--no he didn't. Go way further back to the mid-late 70s, picking up bits and pieces on the way forward.

Come on. Next you'll be telling me pogoing to Bauhaus was dancing about architecture.

That said, the original CatCF movie sucked huge amounts of posterior, it had stupid orange midgets and looked like it was filmed in a shed. Your cherished childhood memories were asking for it, jonmc. Mankind may not be free until Tim Burton is strangled by the entrails of the last Vermicious Knid (and thus finally achieving the darkness he's always been too scared to fully embrace, the big tease), but seriously, the original movie was craptastic. It is impossible by definition for this one to be any worse.
posted by Sparx at 7:36 PM on May 17, 2005

The original movie was incredible and fabulous--even the weird German town/scenery somehow worked.

*hits Sparx, throws him in a chocolate river, while singing "I've got a Golden Ticket*
posted by amberglow at 7:44 PM on May 17, 2005

look how cute Charlie grew up to be, too : >
posted by amberglow at 7:54 PM on May 17, 2005

Sure, amberglow, if you happen to like balding guys with walrus moustaches who stick their hands up animals for a living...which I'm not prepared to discuss right now.
posted by Sparx at 8:05 PM on May 17, 2005

I'm speechless. What spiteful, petty people are out tonight. Does making fun of people's looks give you pleasure?

It's the spirit of the age: "If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever."
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 8:08 PM on May 17, 2005

lupus, sometimes, yes, yes it does. If I see someone walking down the street wearing dots and stripes, I'll laugh. If I see a really fat person wearing a shirt that says "Hottie" I'm going to laugh. Sorry if the whole super serious Goth thing doesn't elicit awe, wonder and worship in me, it doesn't, it makes me laugh. So I'm gonna laugh.

Full well knowing that I make other people shake their head pityingly and laugh at me. Goths chose to live their lives according to their own rules and I give them credit for that, but it doesn't mean I'm not going to react as I do. I'm not hurting them, I'm giving them some of the attention and, to some degree because it helps validate their perspective, derision they seem to want, they don't want to be part of my world.

So boo hoo, some people dressed funny (or not so funny) got barred from entering a movie premier. People get barred from getting into clubs everynight even when they are dressed properly. Its not that big a deal. I doubt Tim Burton gives two shits but maybe he does, maybe that's why they love him so.

And I will still laugh at goths, clowns, fat people in belly shirts and skinny white dread-locked rasta guys who don't like to shower. But I won't laugh at dogs dressed in clothes, I do have my standards.
posted by fenriq at 9:02 PM on May 17, 2005

Wow.
I have to say, I was vaguely goth-like in the early-to-mid-80's, (I don't think I even knew it was called Goth...it meant you liked the Cure and Bauhaus and wore an ankh earring and Dad's old cardigans), and even then it was lame...running into my mom's bathroom to secretly steal some of her eyeliner before she gave me a ride to school...walking through a foot of slush in February in Toronto in tiny black pointy shoes...the photographer for our TTC card demanding that I move my carefully placed, crunchy teased hair out of my eyes, resulting in a crazy sad picture...
Then came the equally sad progression to neo-psychedelia and then full-fledged hippiedom, and then a rejection of that...but I digress.
In high school, and I speak from personal experience, it always seemed to be the nerdiest, outcast-iest people that became 'Goth', creating their own clique where weird was good and thus it was a badge that the preppies and jocks made fun of them. Or they took theatre arts and smoked in the courtyard. Or probably both.
And ridiculing Goths just feeds it, like a "no one understands me" kind of thing. I remember getting stared at on buses. Now I know that it's because I looked like a big loser, but if I said that to the purposefully-misfortunately dressed people of today, they'd say I don't understand them.

I guess I have a problem with people that have to DRESS LIKE THE MUSIC THEY LIKE. I don't get it, I mean, when you are an adult. Like this whole rockabilly-50's-guy-Betty-Page-girl thing. I see the Shadowy Men on a Shadowy Planet guy at my local grocery store and he's all pointy-shoed and cardigan-ed and giant pompadour-ed, selecting an avocado or whatever. It's so crazy, out of context. It makes me wonder why you can't just put on your non-rock'n'roll clothes for shopping, and have the outfit for going out. (I met him at a concert once, and he's a really nice guy, I'm sure he's got his reasons, but I still don't get it.)

So...get to the point...
Goth was already lame in the '80s, kind of superLame now, and if you are middle-aged? Pretty tragically lame.
BUT, that said, I don't think these creepy middle-aged Goths (especially the man, yikes) should have been denied entry into this crappy movie. It seems like this PR guy had a thing about Goths. Kind of not fair, since the PR people had approached them in the first place.
"Not a costumed event" makes me laugh a bit, though.

But I do think it's unfair to attach Tim Burton to Goths, like he has some kind of responsibility to them. Goths just go for that kind of stuff. It's like saying Edward Gorey or Maurice Sendak have a duty to protect the poor misunderstood Goth and his plight in the Modern Old Navy world.

Thank you for allowing me this space to vent some angst and embarrassment from my past.

And I was quite surprised at the lack of outrage from jonmc who usually seems so offended at other attacks on people with fashion-related problems, e.g. mullets.
posted by chococat at 9:17 PM on May 17, 2005

"At least twenty Gothicks postured in the main room, like a herd of baby dinosaurs, their crests of lacquered hair bobbing and twitching. The majority approached the Gothick ideal: tall, lean, muscular, but touched by a certain gaunt restlessness, young athletics in the early stages of consumption. The graveyard pallow was mandatory, and Gothic hair was by definition black. Bobby knew that the few who couldn't warp their bodies to fit the subcultural template were best avoided; a short Gothick was trouble, a fat Gothic homcidal.

Now he watched them flexing and glittering in Leon's like a composite creature, slime mold with a jigsaw surface of dark leather and stainless spikes. Most of them had nearly identical faces, features reworked to match ancient archetypes culled from kino banks."

Count Zero, William Gibson

No reason to post it really, I just like the quote.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 9:24 PM on May 17, 2005

Holy shit. I thought fenriq was like the super hottest, smartest guy on mefi, but turns out he's just an old crank who likes to laugh at people who are different from him PLUS he condones the indignity that is dressed up dogs?!!. I am so sad now, I'm gonna dress in all black and mope for the rest of the week :(
posted by zarah at 9:36 PM on May 17, 2005

Well, that's what you get for dressing like an idiot. You certainly couldn't get in to a nice restaurant looking like that!

Yeah! These damn kids today!

sheesh... I am sensing a lot of people in this thread who have not had fun in years and have never had an ounce of style. Jesus Christ, people. What kind of khakis & blue shirt world are you living in where you're GLAD to see kids wearing black thrown out of a movie theater for dressing "like idiots?"

Do you have any idea how old and soulless you sound? I'm hardly a fan of the goth esthetic, but slow down with this cheering-on-the-hegemony bullshit, willya?
posted by scarabic at 9:50 PM on May 17, 2005

zarah, close but no, dressing up dogs is a no-no in my book. And I like to laugh at lots of things including people that aren't like me. I will laugh at chimpanzees riding bicycles even though I know that they should be in a jungle somewhere. I laugh at jackasses on the freeway who behave like dickheads to get one car length ahead of where they should be. And I laugh at people who think its impolite to laugh at the world.

Sorry I don't live up to your perfection. I'm sure you fart melodies with a faint rose scent.
posted by fenriq at 10:33 PM on May 17, 2005

That is a great quote, thatwhichfalls.
posted by jenovus at 10:50 PM on May 17, 2005

Sorry I don't live up to your perfection

Of course you don't live up to my idea of perfection, there's no such thing. I was just goofing around whilst proving that not everyone around here is a "fat fuck". I don't know how you folks find ways to be jovial and lighthearted at everyone else's expense but then can't handle it when an innocuous spotlight is shone in your direction.

Fuck's sake, scarabic is right.
posted by zarah at 11:10 PM on May 17, 2005

chococat writes " So...get to the point...
"Goth was already lame in the '80s, kind of superLame now, and if you are middle-aged? Pretty tragically lame.
"BUT, that said, I don't think these creepy middle-aged Goths (especially the man, yikes) should have been denied entry into this crappy movie."

I was going to say something on the subject, but other than gender, and my having come a decade later to the party, chococat really does sum it up well. I'm an ex spooky kid, and whilst I still wear combat pants as often as not, it's from comfort, not fashion. I look back at the fashionista aspect of my rivethead career and wonder what the hell I was thinking, frankly. I'm glad I left it behind before I ended up looking like that.

But the PR flack was a brat with the maturity of a pack of sugar-high howler monkeys, and should be roundly mocked.
posted by ChrisR at 11:15 PM on May 17, 2005

yeah, zarah, innocuous spotlight from a member with 91 comments in 5 years and an anonymous member page dedicated to pointing out who you think are the asshole members of MeFi.

Jovial and lighthearted my ass.

Anyway, I'm wondering if they were being assholes in line and he just used the costume angle to boot them?
posted by fenriq at 11:24 PM on May 17, 2005

Hey I"m proud of my 91 comments in 5 years, it's solid proof I generally have better things to do with my time. How was my comment anything but innocuous, and where did I say that I was the one being jovial and lighthearted, and how is my profile page anonymous, I have an email address in it for pete's sake. You need a letter of introduction or sommat?

Anyway, I'm wondering if they were being assholes in line and he just used the costume angle to boot them?

That's not wondering, that's clutching at straws.
posted by zarah at 11:32 PM on May 17, 2005

Good for you, and I get a whole 2% of all your comments ever. I feel ever so blessed.
posted by fenriq at 11:47 PM on May 17, 2005

Wow, whole lot of assholes on this thread.

Couple of people get tossed out of an event because some PR jerk thinks they dress funny because they're wearing all black.

Response here? "We'll gosh darn it, they *were* dressed funny! They deserve whatever they get!"

Assholes.

Incidentally, I am eager to hear an explanation of how wearing all black to an event which mostly consists of sitting in the dark is an obvious cry for attention. What?
posted by kyrademon at 1:28 AM on May 18, 2005

I have never met an angry, violent or obnoxious goth. To a person they are educated, polite and generous.

They are sometimes emotionally unstable, their poetry generally sucks but as a rule they are much more fun to hang around with then boring normal people whose idea of a good time is drinking until they projectile vomit and then having a fight and breaking my friend's arm.

Plus - goth chix are HOTT.

/proud owner of deluxe goth wifey.
posted by longbaugh at 1:41 AM on May 18, 2005

I'm often surprised how many jerks there are on Mefi...You think you'd become inured to it.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think people are jerks for making fun of goths. Go ahead, have a ball. But being happy that they were denied entrance to something they had tickets to just because they didn't dress normally enough for you...
posted by Bugbread at 2:16 AM on May 18, 2005

[sings] let's do the time warp again!
posted by quonsar at 2:36 AM on May 18, 2005

*adjusts thigh-highs*
posted by quonsar at 2:37 AM on May 18, 2005

I thought I had become inured to it. But this thread really fills me with disgust for some reason.

I just kept thinking, what if it had been, "PR man throws family of Hassidic Jews out of film screening. 'They were dressed funny', says PR man."

Would we get responses here like:

"I only wish more cinemas were discriminating."

"[Jews always] smell of b.o ... So the PR assistant pretty much saved someone else's evening."

"[S]orry, I have been taught that you're supposed to laugh at [Jews], these people look like [Jews] so I'm laughing."

I mean, damn.

I don't get the level of vitriolic hate reserved for certain groups here. I mean, sure, I can understand why some of you loathe your political opponents, and also vaguely comprehend why a number of people here seem to have an uncontrollable anger for anyone who breaks a law, but I cannot get why certain groups that have no desire to bother anyone else get singled out for the five minutes of Hate. I've seen it happen in discussions of goths, overweight people, bicyclists - bicyclists! - vegans ... I don't get it.

It's like if a group is unpopular *enough*, it's OK to chuck your tolerance out the door and scream and yell, what great fun. We don't have to tolerate them - no one likes them anyway! People who will attempt to understand the motivations of murderers will join the pig-pile on the goths.

I find it especially loathsome that in all of these threads, people will go out of their way to soothe themselves by explaining that, no, these people *deserve* it. They seek attention because they wear clothes that they like! Well, or at least I assume, since all this attention-seeking doesn't include their actually coming up and bothering me. But if I'm right, then they deserve it! For some reason. And fat people eat too much! And vegans are self-righteous about it, or would be if I knew any, but I've heard they are, and that's good enough for me. And those bicyclists, why, some of them actually wish to share the road with my car! Yeah. Bastards. Deserve everything they get.

I don't get it. And it sucks.
posted by kyrademon at 2:41 AM on May 18, 2005

what if it had been... Hassidic Jews...

mefite equates depressed angsty attention seeking mime fetish victims with centuries old religious traditionalists. folks, we have now officially jumped the gefilte fish.
posted by quonsar at 3:05 AM on May 18, 2005

My issue isn't the derision. Asking people not to deride others is asking far too much. However, what I don't get is the "it's ok if bad things happen to them, because I don't like them" in reference to people who aren't doing anyone any harm. I have nothing against goths, but I have to admit: the two in the picture were some goofy looking muthas. And if I'd been in line, I might have made jokes about their appearance (not to their face, of course, I'm not that much of an asshole). But if I'd seen them getting refused entrance, it would have annoyed me. Not "throw my hat on the ground and punch the PR guy in the neck" angry, but certainly not the "laugh at the goths for being refused entry" that's in this thread.

Isn't it possible to make fun of someone and yet still wish that they're treated fairly? Are people here really of the mindset that it's ok for bad stuff to happen to folks, as long as you don't like them?

One thing is wishing bad things to happen to murderers or folks who set your cat on fire or other universally Bad Things, but even to people who just dress in a way you don't like?
posted by Bugbread at 3:29 AM on May 18, 2005

Does making fun of people's looks give you pleasure?

You've been a member for 3.5 years and you still need to ask that question?

It's the spirit of the age: "If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever."

Yeah, but whose face?
posted by biffa at 3:53 AM on May 18, 2005

I hope Depp can pull off playing Wonka, Gene Wilder left some damned big shoes to fill.

On the contrary; I felt the original Wilder film was perhaps the most painful-to-watch children's movie. Ever. Lots of room to work with here. (And I like Gene Wilder.)
posted by Doohickie at 5:08 AM on May 18, 2005

i don't get why this is funny either.

sure, the comparison with hassidic jews seems a little forced, but since when do you turn people away because of how they dress? maybe i'm just not rich enough, but as far as i know i've never eaten in a restaurant that does that. if such discrimination in the usa is common it seems more like the kind of thing mefites would object to that support.

shrugs. goes back to not reading metafilter.
posted by andrew cooke at 6:03 AM on May 18, 2005

What bugbread said. The self-congratulatory narrowmindedness displayed in some of the comments in this thread really astounds me.
posted by iconomy at 7:10 AM on May 18, 2005

Frankly I think the two of them not dressed as goths look equally goofy, but you'd have to be a complete asshat to throw any of them out of a theater for their appearance.
posted by Foosnark at 7:56 AM on May 18, 2005

quonsar : " mefite equates depressed angsty attention seeking mime fetish victims with centuries old religious traditionalists."

This is the kind of attitude I don't quite get: that one needs a reason to treat people fairly, and that because they aren't a minority or persecuted group, they don't qualify for fairness.

How about supporting treating them fairly because they haven't done anything to deserve otherwise?
posted by Bugbread at 8:10 AM on May 18, 2005

People! Focus, now. The thing that must be remembered is that we're talking about people (presumably nerds) dressing up as pirates and ninjas. Not real pirates and ninjas. I think it's a toss-up, really.
posted by graventy at 8:23 AM on May 18, 2005

I think we all know that the real victors of the pirate vs. ninja battle would be the chaos monkeys, feasting on the corpses.
posted by cmonkey at 8:24 AM on May 18, 2005

How about supporting treating them fairly because they haven't done anything to deserve otherwise?

But bugbread, they smell!
posted by graventy at 8:24 AM on May 18, 2005

Also, I'm pretty sure that a Tim Burton movie involving goth kids dressed up as pirates, ninjas and robots would be top notch.
posted by cmonkey at 8:27 AM on May 18, 2005

I'm heartened to see that there was (eventually) a flood of people that were bothered by the cheerleading of the random discrimination. I was uncomfortable with the rush to approve of this close minded move, but I wasn't able to articulate it. I'm glad somebody did. Thanks, guys.
posted by raedyn at 8:57 AM on May 18, 2005

cmonkey raises an interesting point: what about the robots?
posted by Eamon at 10:20 AM on May 18, 2005

Personally people dressed in Goth styley don't make me laugh. Come to think of it I walk past them just like any other "normally" dressed person. I made fun of some hippies that I overheard on the bus buying a VW bus out of the back of some classified ads the other day. But it wasn't anything I wouldn't say in front of them. But I don't hate hippies for goodness sakes.
posted by chowder at 10:21 AM on May 18, 2005

I'd decided last night that the ultimate fighter in the goths vs.. ninjas vs. pirates all out battle royale would have to be the multitasker, the ninja/pirate/goth. They could use artillery, shuriken AND their angst to defeat you.

cmonkey, chaos monkeys!?! I like the idea! Just keep them out of my flowerbeds! And no brain spatter on the new garage door!
posted by fenriq at 10:23 AM on May 18, 2005

Solar-powered Goth Robots would be a bit of a non-starter I think. The average ninja would sail through them distributing destruction whilst wailing sweetly on a guitar whilst banging some beautiful (goth) babe.
posted by longbaugh at 10:26 AM on May 18, 2005

I knew some people would think the comparison with Hassidic Jews would be ridiculous, but I actually picked them for very deliberate reasons. They are a people who dress in the style of the Polish nobility of the mid-eighteenth century, in part "out of a desire to look different from the general population" (or so says the wikipedia article, at least.) Yet somehow, this is not even remotely comparable with, and far superior to, goth clothing because they've ... been around longer? Don't enjoy it as much? Because some guy tells them to? Because they think they have to? What?

So why treat one group with respect because they dress funny and one group with contempt because they dress funny? Makes no sense. As bugbread said, shouldn't treating people fairly just be the default?
posted by kyrademon at 10:50 AM on May 18, 2005

Gosh, I would kill for some Goths! Really. People are so boring around here (Raleigh.) Our main excitement comes form the occasional Hippy sighting and old ladies wearing humongous hats to church.

Seriously, if I was Tim Burton, I would send these guys a letter apologizing for the boorish behavior of his PR person. A letter. I think that would be all it would take to soothe their ruffled feathers.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:29 PM on May 18, 2005

Wow, pretty disappointing display pettiness here; it's almost surreal. As MrGrimm said, it would be different if there was a dress code listed on the invitations, of which I see no evidence. I'm not really into goth stuff, and a some of them are pretentious and annoying, but that doesn't mean that that it's OK to deny them entrance to an event just because they're dressed differently. I don't think anyone is saying that the marketing company was not fully within their rights to do what they did, but that doesn't make it any less asanine. It also doesn't mean that people shouldn't write to express their disdain if they feel it necessary. It probably won't "accomplish" anything besides the satisfaction of knowing you made your opinion known but isn't that enough? All of you who think that it's not a problem should feel free to write and tell the marketing company that you think it's great they don't let smelly goths into their events. I don't mind the ridiculing (I laughed a few times), but the idea that it's OK to treat these people however you want because you don't think they're attractive or dress properly is really, really sad.
posted by nTeleKy at 1:38 PM on May 18, 2005

I think people know Hassidic Jews dress that way partly as an expression of their participation in an old old religion. Perhaps when people look at Hassidic Jews they think something to the effect of "now there's a person who has seriously studied his religion and lives by the guidelines layed out by their faith" or something like that. People can respect that. Goths, on the other hand, are dressed the way they are as an expression of their participation in a few decades old tradition that requires nothing of the person other than that they wear black clothes. As a lot of people in this very thread pointed out "I dressed that way once in the 80s". People dressing Goth as an expression to look different is one thing, but it is not an expression of their belief in a traditional system. You will not see a thread full of comments like "I dressed like a Hassidic Jew once in the 80s, never did it again". Because Hassidic Jews take their shit seriously and don't attract a lot of posers who just want to dress differently. Goths just don't command the same respect as Hassidic Jews from the public at large because of their respective reputations, or lack thereof. Big difference as far as I can tell.
posted by chowder at 3:18 PM on May 18, 2005

So ... it's been around longer, and they feel they have to, instead of merely wanting to?

Must say that doesn't strike me as a particularly huge, relevant, or interesting difference. I guess others feel differently. *shrug*

Incidentally, I know several ex-Hassids.
posted by kyrademon at 7:36 PM on May 18, 2005

I think Goth fashion is fun. I don't imagine that there are more attention-whores in the goth community than there are in the population at large. But the clothes they wear are a choice, and they could wear other clothes if they wanted to. I think that most of the "They get what they deserve" comments are in response to the idea that the guy who pulled them out of line was out of line. Was he? I don't know, I encounter dress codes all the time that aren't written down. It's just life. I have to wear a jacket to go to a nice restuarant. I have to wear certain shoes and pants to get into nice clubs. I have to wear certain shoes to get into a strip club. All of these are clothes that I don't want to be wearing. And no where is this all written down.

Does it suck? Kind of, but it sucks more that they didn't kiss the guys ass to try and get into the place. "Hey, is there a problem with my friends? Is there a dress code? Really, we had no idea. We've already paid for a sitter. What can we do to get in? What if my buddy puts his cloak in the car, and we trade shirts? Would that be okay? Oh, the mascara, too? Okay. Thanks again, we don't get a chance to get out much, and we don't want to have to go home."

And then call the guy an asshole ten ways to Sunday once you get to sit down. No, they shouldn't have to do that. But they shouldn't have to go home without seeing the movie that they came to see, either.
posted by 23skidoo at 8:12 PM on May 18, 2005

I have to wear a jacket to go to a nice restuarant. I have to wear certain shoes and pants to get into nice clubs.

That's just what's most annoying about the situation (until this hateful thread, anyway). Regardless of the Goth styling, these people are wearing good evening clothes-- a dress, a suit jacket, a tie-- and I can't see their feet, but I'm willing to bet they didn't have Nikes on. How fucking ridiculous is it to have to change out of a tie and into some raggedy-ass t-shirt in order to go sit in the dark? With the exception of bowling alleys, dress codes, explicit or not, are supposed to encourage dressing up, not down.

But of course, this wasn't a "dress code" issue at all, just an asshole issue. Like this thread.
posted by obloquy at 8:53 PM on May 18, 2005

Too bad there weren't any pirates at the screening. They would have kicked that PR jerk's ass.

Wimpy ninjas would probably just have poisoned him in his sleep.

But robots! Robots would have made PR paste out of him.

I think pirate robots would be best.
posted by warbaby at 9:56 PM on May 18, 2005

How fucking ridiculous is it to have to change out of a tie and into some raggedy-ass t-shirt in order to go sit in the dark?

To me, not ridiculous enough to miss out on seeing a sneak of a movie I wanted to see after paying for a babysitter. I know they weren't offered this option, but it doesn't sound like they tried very hard to suggest it, either.
posted by 23skidoo at 10:51 PM on May 18, 2005

Is this still going on? Oh well.

Todd who runs Twitch Film has emailed be (presumably because I originated the thread here) and said:

"The screenwriter of the film (John August) has seen the original letter and sent a response which is online here:

http://www.twitchfilm.net/archives/002056.html"

It's actually a really cool funky understanding response.
posted by feelinglistless at 11:14 AM on May 19, 2005

Pirate pride, ninja nay-saying
Last week was the beginning of Ninja Respect Month and also Pirate Pride Week, a scheduling conflict that is equivalent to hosting a presidential address the same night as the World Series
posted by ericb at 8:58 AM on May 20, 2005

shrugs. goes back to not reading metafilter.

*shrugs. goes back to not smoking crack.*
posted by Doohickie at 8:01 PM on May 29, 2005