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Albums to Listen to While Reading Overwrought Pitchfork Reviews
May 25, 2005 6:07 PM   Subscribe

Last year, Pitchforkmedia.com published a nauseatingly smug review in smarmy, supercilious prose by Amanda Petrusich of the David Cross album It's Not Funny. This year, regardless of their opinion of David and/or his act, they asked him for his Top Ten List®. Here then, are the "Top Ten CD's That [He] Just Made Up (and accompanying made-up review excerpts) to listen to while skimming through some of the overwrought reviews on Pitchforkmedia.com"
Pitchfork discussed here, here, here and here. David Cross here and here.
posted by airguitar (97 comments total)

 
Picthfork sucks. And David Cross does, too quite frankly.

So this is like, Battle Of The Smug Hipster Dipshits?
posted by jonmc at 6:11 PM on May 25, 2005


brrrrrrrrrilliant.
posted by mcsweetie at 6:13 PM on May 25, 2005


I think the difference between most of us and the writers at Pitchfork is that most of us like music.
posted by eustacescrubb at 6:27 PM on May 25, 2005


eustacescrubb wins!

When I am king Pitchfork writers will be the third against the wall, right after Morrissey and the people behind American Idol.
posted by jonmc at 6:30 PM on May 25, 2005


Picthfork sucks

i like pitchfork where else can you go creep up on some new music reviews and then buy tracks at iTMS no where

nme rolling stone cmj spin are suck and the years have not been kind to zep and BRENT DICRESCENZO is a bitch

night ranger
posted by a thousand writers drunk at the keyboard at 6:31 PM on May 25, 2005


long overdue. although it's still the best music review site, pitchfork's britches have gotten oversized and smarmy and filled with petty sniping.
posted by destro at 6:37 PM on May 25, 2005


Pitchfork is good. It has some reviewers I really like, and some reviewers I think are lame, but on the whole it's good.

People, get over your Pitchfork hate / reverse music snobbery please.
posted by josh at 6:39 PM on May 25, 2005


P.S. -- I thought this was pretty funny! I don't know anything about David Cross but I like his fake band names.
posted by josh at 6:39 PM on May 25, 2005


i like pitchfork where else can you go creep up on some new music reviews and then buy tracks

Pitchfork is Rolling Stone/Spin/whatever for people who delude themselves into thinking that they're too cool for such things. It's why so-called "independent" music blogs and zines all wind up featuring the same flavor of the month indie act instead of the latest boy band/pop tart. You're just a different niche market. Get over yourself. The "independent" part of "indie" rock ceased to mean anything a long time ago.


night ranger


Night Ranger's "Don't Tell Me You Love Me," is a more listenable piece of music than 90% of the indie rock I've heard over the last 5 years, and I was probably listening to independent music when you were learning to shit. A well-written defense of Night Ranger would be a thousand times more interesting than some twit gushing over the latest trendy indie band.
posted by jonmc at 6:41 PM on May 25, 2005


eustacescrubb! eustacescrubb!
posted by VulcanMike at 6:43 PM on May 25, 2005


Pitchfork is Rolling Stone/Spin/whatever for people who delude themselves into thinking that they're too cool for such things. It's why so-called "independent" music blogs and zines all wind up featuring the same flavor of the month indie act instead of the latest boy band/pop tart. You're just a different niche market. Get over yourself. The "independent" part of "indie" rock ceased to mean anything a long time ago. [...] Night Ranger's "Don't Tell Me You Love Me," is a more listenable piece of music than 90% of the indie rock I've heard over the last 5 years, and I was probably listening to independent music when you were learning to shit. A well-written defense of Night Ranger would be a thousand times more interesting than some twit gushing over the latest trendy indie band.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....
posted by josh at 6:44 PM on May 25, 2005


David Cross is Happy Time Harry. Therefore, David Cross is God.
posted by dirigibleman at 6:45 PM on May 25, 2005


jonmc: I was probably listening to independent music when you were learning to shit.

jonmc: Get over yourself

Take your own advice there maybe?
posted by josh at 6:47 PM on May 25, 2005


Thanks for a typically well-reasoned response, josh. Your getting your money's worth out of Harvard, I see.

On preview: you've offered a lot of smartassery, josh, but any evidence to contardict what I say?
posted by jonmc at 6:49 PM on May 25, 2005


That Ryan Adams interview is great too. I like how the Pitchfork method seems to be over-the-top, self-conscious pretension, followed by over-the-top, self-conscious contrition.
posted by josh at 6:49 PM on May 25, 2005


As usual the musical chip on your shoulder reeks of elderly resentment, jonmc. Remind me of the countless major label releases over the last 5 years that have bowled you over. It may just be another niche market, but it's a market that's smarter, more critical, more knowledgeable, and more actively involved in it's music consumption.

But I still love you. Just leave suedehead out of this.
posted by drpynchon at 6:50 PM on May 25, 2005


but it's a market that's smarter, more critical, more knowledgeable, and more actively involved in it's music consumption.

Who still still gobble up whatever shit they're spoonfed, even though the hand holding the spoon belongs to Pitchfork instead of say, Rolling Stone.

Remind me of the countless major label releases over the last 5 years that have bowled you over.

Aside from a few singles ("Hey Ya"), none. I'm not defending the media machine, merely stating the fact that positing today's indie scene as some kind of opposition to it is a bad joke.
posted by jonmc at 6:54 PM on May 25, 2005


jonmc, I've had this argument with you so many times on so many different threads that it's not even worth repeating. I mean, there is really about 0% probability that you will change your mind and suddenly agree with me or with anyone who likes the music I like. Right?

I just think you shouldn't be encouraged. If I were to argue with you, it would go like this: basically, I will say that there are all these bands I like that are good; you will say that they all rip off [insert band from my childhood / my parents' youth here]; you will say that all the music I like is shit; that people need to get over themselves; and that everyone who likes music that you don't is a poser who has been duped by marketing into thinking their music means something.

Then, people will get offended, and you will say something like: the point of talking about music is to be as bitchy as possible, I bring it to you, you bring it to me, etc., let's fight!

Like I said: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Unfortunately there is very little 'evidence' for either of our positions, because we're talking about pop music; but at least I don't insist that everyone but me and my generation listens to "shit" music made by "dipshits."

Just let people enjoy their music and music websites in peace!
posted by josh at 6:57 PM on May 25, 2005


I'm beginning to suspect that jonmc is a regular down-to-earth straight shooter who doesn't fall for any pretentious hipster guff, but I think it'll take another 7639 comments to be sure.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 7:00 PM on May 25, 2005 [1 favorite]


Armitage Shanks wins.
posted by drpynchon at 7:01 PM on May 25, 2005


Ok, jonmc, I've had enough of the Morrissey trashing, post in and post out.

What's your beef? (I'll warn you that I had a bad experience with a homophobe Morrissey hater in college.)

The David Cross piece? Pretty funny. Funny names at least.

On preview, ZING!
posted by mrgrimm at 7:02 PM on May 25, 2005


jonmc, I've had this argument with you so many times on so many different threads that it's not even worth repeating. I mean, there is really about 0% probability that you will change your mind and suddenly agree with me or with anyone who likes the music I like.

Like what you like, it's no skin of my ass, but Pitchfork and it's ilk relentlessly pat themselves on the back for being "indie," without recognizing any of the contradictions that I've noted above.

but at least I don't insist that everyone but me and my generation listens to "shit" music made by "dipshits."



You think this is a generational conflict? Buy an economy sized clue.

(I'll warn you that I had a bad experience with a homophobe Morrissey hater in college.)

Grimstah, you know me well enough to know I'm no homophobe. I just hate his music and all it's spawned. I'm just tired of conformity passing itself off as independent thinking. That's my beef.

Armitage: yeah, zing! I talk too much about this shit. But I mean every word I say, and rock and roll means a lot to me, so I keep posting, and besides I keep threads like this from being boring.
posted by jonmc at 7:07 PM on May 25, 2005


Oh good! I hope we can turn THIS music thread into one about jonmc, again!
posted by crank at 7:09 PM on May 25, 2005


I hate PFM and don't bother to even read their reviews anymore but it's a great place to go see what's on the horizon, release-date wise. Their news mildly interesting on occasion but it's often full of factual errors. The best part of the old site was the Mailbag but I assume they got tired of getting reamed by readers who were smarter than they were so they killed it.

I started reading the Cross post when it was linked on Waxy and I thought he hit the nail on the head so well that I thought I was really reading their stupid reviews so I stopped.

jonmc, if we all join hands and gather around you in a circle will you tell us about the glory days of Music Consumption when Rainbow or Asia were taking it to the next level?
posted by dobbs at 7:13 PM on May 25, 2005


P.S.... Just so my only contributions to this thread aren't about jonmc, I will say this in defense of Pitchfork:

The thing I like about Pitchfork is not their indie sensibility. I remember a couple of years ago they were hugely into, say, the Dismemberment Plan, which I could never get into; and I think their greatest weakness as an editorial group is their fondness for somewhat bland indie fare--Bloc Party, for example.

The thing I do like about Pitchfork has always been their interest in non-rock records. Pitchfork introduced me to Fennesz; To Merzbow; to ambient music; to Autechre; to Sublime Frequencies; to Keith Fullerton Whitman... and to a lot of music off the beaton path. I think Mark Richardson, who writes their Resonant Frequency column, is one of the best music writers out there; and every year I look forward to their Found Sound feature.

Sure, there are reviewers and aspects of the site I don't like, but I really appreciate this part of it. Pitchfork is not the end-all of internet music criticism, and there are lots of other places to go for great writing too; but Pitchfork still has a lot to offer, and, despite its hugeness, there are plenty of good writers there. Even when I was in college and doing college radio, there was still a fair quantity of weird music that Pitchfork pointed me to that I never would've found on my own.
posted by josh at 7:14 PM on May 25, 2005


I keep threads like this from being boring.

There's no possible change to that sentence that could make it more wrong. It's like a perfectly polished diamond of delusion.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 7:16 PM on May 25, 2005


I mean, at this point, Pitchfork is publishing something like 120 record reviews a month; not all of those reviews are of trendy indie bands. They are at this point the Rolling Stone of the 'indie' world, but there's good stuff in there beyond Franz Ferdinand et. al.
posted by josh at 7:16 PM on May 25, 2005


jonmc, if we all join hands and gather around you in a circle will you tell us about the glory days of Music Consumption when Rainbow or Asia were taking it to the next level?

Actually, I'd be more inclined to cite the Dictators, Social Distortion, the Replacements, and The Ramones (although both bands you mentioned had their moments), but if you want to use them as a way to write off what I'm trying to say, go right ahead.

They are at this point the Rolling Stone of the 'indie' world,

*choirs singing hallelujah*

Now, he gets it.

There's some old issues of Fizz, Flipside, Scram (hell, I've got some bound collections of Punk magazine and Crawdaddy) I'd like to show you. They say "fuck you" to the smug orthodoxy masquerading as free-thinking that Pitchfork purveys. That is my grudge with them.
posted by jonmc at 7:19 PM on May 25, 2005


jonmc, The Fall is the bridge between punk and Morrissey, and I hope one day you are able to cross it
posted by a thousand writers drunk at the keyboard at 7:22 PM on May 25, 2005


Jonmc, finally, I get to agree with you again. Pitchfork loves...Britney Spears. Britney. Fucking. Spears.

But Rolling Stone, not to be outdone, put Clay Shirky on their cover.

Is Dr. Demento the only extant sincere judge of music?
posted by NickDouglas at 7:22 PM on May 25, 2005


or as Jim Goad put it

a thousand writers drunk at the keyboard: What I've heard by The Fall, I like, but I've given Morrisey a thousand chances and I still hate the bastard.

Is Dr. Demento the only extant sincere judge of music?

Him and Lester Bangs, Legs McNeill, Dave Marsh, and Handsome Dick Manitoba. And Divine Wino.
posted by jonmc at 7:26 PM on May 25, 2005


So, is the issue Pitchfork's bad reviews that are masquerading as free-thinking, is it how much better music was in the 1970's, or is it how much cooler you are than anyone who doesn't like the same things that you do? I can't believe you don't tire of spouting the same thing over and over every time someone mentions music.
posted by trey at 7:26 PM on May 25, 2005


jonmc, I really question how many people who read Pitchfork don't understand how big it's gotten. It's hardly a secret. You are not bringing the tablets of musical authenticity down from the mountain here.

Anyhow, I'm curious for a jonmc status update: are there any music magazines being published now that you read and don't hate? Are there any bands making music right now that you like?
posted by josh at 7:28 PM on May 25, 2005


jonmc: Maybe rock and roll has just passed you by. Perhaps you could retire to a cottage by the sea with your Night Ranger and let all the kids doing the new stuff have some fun?
posted by xmutex at 7:28 PM on May 25, 2005


Are there any bands making music right now that you like?

The Superuckers, Guided By Voices, The Fastbacks, OutKast, The Bell Rays.
posted by jonmc at 7:30 PM on May 25, 2005


xmutex: that's more or less what I've done, but this is just my way of telling them to get the hell off my lawn.
posted by jonmc at 7:30 PM on May 25, 2005


And what a crab-grassy lawn it is.
posted by NickDouglas at 7:33 PM on May 25, 2005


The Superuckers, Guided By Voices, The Fastbacks, OutKast, The Bell Rays.

*head explodes*

jonmc likes completely regular, generic 'hip' music! Maybe you could go hang out with the Pitchfork gang actually--they love GBV (who are no longer making music, by the way).

Do you like the Hot Snakes? It seems like you might like them (I do).
posted by josh at 7:33 PM on May 25, 2005


jonmc - what's with the hating?

i mean i understand you may not like morrissey, but to compare him to american idol and the pitchfork writers - i mean that's just unnecessarily cruel.

i'll be in my room if you need me.
posted by soi-disant at 7:34 PM on May 25, 2005


Fuck. I came back too early.
posted by Kloryne at 7:35 PM on May 25, 2005


Handsome Dick Manitoba

Good fucking Christ on a crutch. This jerkoff threatened to sue Dan Snaith for releasing electronica records under the name Manitoba because, he argued, people might think it's him--even though he never himself released an album under that moniker and hasn't been on a released record in, what, 15 years? What a maroon. With any luck he'll be remembered for this act of idiocy instead of his mustard burp of a career in the Dictators. Real Punk Rock there, Dick, calling in the lawyers.
posted by dobbs at 7:39 PM on May 25, 2005


NickDouglas: But Rolling Stone, not to be outdone, put Clay Shirky on their cover.

Do you mean Clay Aiken? Shirky on the cover of Rolling Stone would be _really_ cool
posted by gen at 7:39 PM on May 25, 2005


I've always liked Jack Rabid's The Big Takeover magazine. I wish he'd put more stuff on the web, though. After 20 years, my eyes are getting too old for small type on shitty newsprint.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 7:42 PM on May 25, 2005


jonmc, I'm serious when I say this:

You know enough about music and the biz, about what's good and what's not, about who's new and worth listening to . . . that you could start your own PFMediaBlog. You've got the cred, the website skillz, and most importantly, the heart. I think you should just do it. I guarantee you that there would be a lot of interest.
posted by ashbury at 7:42 PM on May 25, 2005




jonmc likes completely regular, generic 'hip' music!


I liked Eminem's stuff too, if it makes you feel any better. But the artists I cited should tell you something, there's very few artists making that kind of music unironically these days and that leaves a gaping void.

Do you like the Hot Snakes?

I heard them, but like a lot of bands trying to revive the Detroit garage song they do it without any sense of nuance. there was more to Iggy/the MC5 et al than just a wall of volume. The Dirtbombs did it better.

I actually have faith that somehwere in the world some kid is creating something that will blow us all out of our collective socks, and I believe that kid will become huge doing it.

what's with the hating?

He convinced a lot of otherwise sensibel people that mopery=rock and roll. And his endlessly imitated vocal style gives me hives.

on preview: dobbs, I've met Handsome Dick at his bar. he was one of the freindliest, most genuine human beings you'd ever want to meet. I don't judge music based on bullshit outside criteria, that's for lawyers. Their albums stand up as the Rosetta Stone of American Punk, and the jukebox in his bar shows that the man has exquisite taste.

And the Dictators reunion album (featuring the immortal "Pussy & Money") came out 4 years ago.

Armitage: The Big Takeover was good. Good eye, dude.
posted by jonmc at 7:44 PM on May 25, 2005


Oh damn. Yes. Clay Aiken.

I'll go crawl into a hole now.
posted by NickDouglas at 7:44 PM on May 25, 2005


don't mind jonmc. pretension, real or imagined, is a pet cause of his.
posted by mcsweetie at 7:55 PM on May 25, 2005


jonmc, well the next time you're drinking with him ask him why he made such a bonehead move. What could be more antithetical to punk than calling lawyers on a musician in another country putting out music of another genre on a small label under the name of a Canadian province? Give me a break. He joined U2/Island in the ranks of stupid law suits with that one. Seriously, jonmc, do you think anyone in their right mind would think this is Dick Manitoba? Nice or not, the guy's a moron.
posted by dobbs at 7:57 PM on May 25, 2005


His contributions to rock and roll outwiegh any bad decisions he might have made. Musical talent and sincerity trump intellect to me. His band contributed voluminously to punk with the music they made. What's your electronica kid done to compare?

*caresses Bloodbrothers t-shirt he's ben wearing for 2 days straight. No he's not kidding*
posted by jonmc at 8:10 PM on May 25, 2005


don't mind jonmc. pretension, real or imagined, is a pet cause of his.

So true. There really needs to be a "summon jonmc" card.

And the Hot Snakes have very little to do with the Detroit garage sound. Check out Drive Like Jehu, an early version of the band, and their first incarnation called (believe it or not) Pitchfork. It's all about So. Cal. post-punk/post-hardcore.
posted by gwint at 8:26 PM on May 25, 2005


Which band was Handsome Dick Manitoba in? Never heard of him. Is Bloodbrothers a band known only to LA punkers or something?

Dan Snaith (Manitoba) has released a pretty spellbinding album *the milk of human kindness* under the name of Caribou.

Since this is all subjective, my two cents says that Manitoba is ahead of Handsome Dick.
posted by UbuRoivas at 8:36 PM on May 25, 2005


Speaking as someone who owned and loved the 3 Dictators albums 30 years ago when they were current, the only thing punk about them were Adny's lyrics. Musically they were pretty standard heavy metal. Bloodbrothers was a little punky as I remember it, but by that time they were playing catch-up to the real punk bands.
posted by rfs at 8:36 PM on May 25, 2005


There were a few review sites I enjoyed reading but they are all gone now. Sigh.

Pitchfork could go away tomorrow and I would not care, but if people like the site, whatever. I bought the latest CD from Saga, so we all have our faults.
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 8:44 PM on May 25, 2005


Ubu, Dick Manitoba fronted the Dictators, a NY Rock/Punk band in the 70s, though as Jon mentioned they released a *ahem* reunion album a few years back. Bloodbrothers was one of their better albums.

Blood Brothers is another band altogether. They kick their own kind of ass (check out This Adultery is Ripe or March On, Electric Children). Handsome Dick hasn't sued them (or Richard Price) yet. Give him time though. Stupidity runs deep.
posted by dobbs at 8:51 PM on May 25, 2005


Oh, so they were like the backward little cousins of bands like Radio Birdman and The Saints, then? /provocative
posted by UbuRoivas at 8:57 PM on May 25, 2005


Ubu, yes, though an American might prefer to phrase it inversely.
posted by dobbs at 9:03 PM on May 25, 2005


And as far as I know thost bands haven't sued Bobby Birdman or The Pale Saints.
posted by dobbs at 9:08 PM on May 25, 2005


But the Spice Girls are back together, so all is well.
posted by fungible at 9:10 PM on May 25, 2005


And as far as I know thost bands haven't sued Bobby Birdman or The Pale Saints.

Well, we don't have a culture of litigation-for-its-own-sake here (yet) ;-)

(Imagine a world without lawyers...)
posted by UbuRoivas at 9:21 PM on May 25, 2005


I'm not gonna mourn my Pa! I'm gonna build me an airport and put my name on it!
posted by basicchannel at 9:25 PM on May 25, 2005


jonmc, I like you and all, but that AmitageShanks comment is fucking spot on. Hilarious.
posted by jonson at 9:32 PM on May 25, 2005


I still love Pitchfork because they're pretentious douchebags. The reviews are a riot. I'd be lying if I said that I hadn't checked out some new artists because of their reviews, though.
posted by Samsonov14 at 9:49 PM on May 25, 2005


has anybody else noticed that Morrissey looks like an old drunken irish boxer, now?
posted by shmegegge at 10:07 PM on May 25, 2005


I used to read Pfork all the time. Then, I dunno, I kinda got sick of not being able to tell one over-effusive review from the next. Oh, and that whole Liars thing. That album pretty well sucked. As did Out Hud. And since I figured out how to stream WFMU, I haven't needed undergrads telling me how much Bright Eyes reminds them of their pussies.
The David Cross riffs were pretty spot-on, though I was too lazy to dig up the actual reviews to see if they followed.
I'll bother with Jonmc and the Dictators in later comments, since I know they won't go away.
posted by klangklangston at 11:08 PM on May 25, 2005


Oh, and that whole Liars thing. That album pretty well sucked.

You're mad if you're referring to ... Monument... That album fucking rocks--one of the best albums of the last 5 years. I love Drowned as well but am not sure that was received too well at PF.
posted by dobbs at 11:34 PM on May 25, 2005


Trashing Pitchfork is the new Pitchfork.

Don't talk at me about how indie is shit now or whenever - you can trash whatever scene you want, but Pitchfork and a lot of other review places/mags have their fingers in a lot of pies I've never even heard of, and if their vague description of an album, buried in pretentious shit, sounds interesting to me, I will go get it and thank them for the tip.

And the liars album sucked, I have to say. Bright eyes is stadium rock now, Out Hud's last album was garbage but their first was good, don't like Blood Brothers, Caribou's album is nowhere near as good as his earlier records (either.) Just for the record. And I liked the list, I saw it when it came up there...
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 12:43 AM on May 26, 2005


Coming from someone who's listened to well over 250 new albums this year...

Red Sparowes - At the Soundless Dawn

Best album this year from a band you've never heard of.
posted by Mach3avelli at 2:17 AM on May 26, 2005


I have untold aeons of time to fill while I'm at work. In my endless quest for reading material on the internets to pass the time, I have lowered myself to material including, but not limited to, a column in a golf course management magazine about the proper maintenance of sand traps.

But I will never, ever waste even my least valuable time by clicking on a music thread at Metafilter again. If I wanted to endlessly, and childishly, argue subjective points of taste as though they were objectively quantifiable, I have a friend in "real life" who seems to think that there are two stone tablets, floating somewhere out in space, with lists of all the Good Music and Bad Music written on them. And I don't.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:31 AM on May 26, 2005


Hmm, that's the first Pitchfork review I've really agreed with (apart from a couple on Björk). I really liked David Cross until I saw his standup routine. His other work is still appreciated.
posted by Captaintripps at 6:38 AM on May 26, 2005


I just read the actual review, seems like the reviewer veiws Cross the same way I do.
posted by jonmc at 6:47 AM on May 26, 2005


Jonmc bubbelah, tattelah:

I do sincerly appreciate your ranking me up there with Lester. And I think you and I share probably a good 50 to 60% appreciation of the same kinds of music, you put me on to the Bellrays, who I find to be hella good. But there is all sorts of "indie" music that you decry, that I like. Sometimes just songs, sometimes whole albums. There is a lot of Count Dooku out there, it's hard to find the Han Solos, but I'll take 'em where ever I can get em, from any age, genre or level of Irony. Mostly I like the toe-tapping, neck-snappin', let's go out and have unplanned pregnancies and rob the drugstore kinda shit, anything with a little ass behind it, but I find that in some of the bands that you can't stand, as well. I also know that music just straight up gets you high, as well for myself, sincerity is a fickle mistress.

Sometimes pitchfork used to be good, helping me find the more obscure stuff that I didn't know about or have any interest in looking for. Nowadays the reviews are mostly wanky SFJ robbing and dreamy word salad handjobbery that try and fail to gild the lilly. I mostly read reviews for entertainment as I can tell myself if I like something or not.

Now one more hard confession from me to you, I can take a little Moz now and then, it's theatre for me, sometimes obsessive self-regard (done right) feels good. Of course then I immediately listen to No Fun seven times in a row and drink a bottle of Blackberry Brandy while smoking dust in the Woodlawn cemetary. Clears the palate.

There it's out, I hope we can still be buddies. If not and we have to fight, ok, lemme just take 10 shots of White Horse and fill one of my socks with wet sand and we can meet in the parking lot behind the cafeteria, first person to bleed from the nose buys the beer.

Aside:
I was listening to the Soledad Brothers a bit recently, they just straight derivative blues fuzz it, no pretending they don't stand on the shoulders of giants, I likes em.
posted by Divine_Wino at 6:58 AM on May 26, 2005


A friend of mine uses this in an online profile. Seems to me, after flipping through some reviews at Pitchfork, that the writers there have a similar template:

The overall effect was like [victorian children's book] meets [seventies t.v. series] on [illegal substance], or listening to [action film director] talk about [B-list dadaist] with [game show host]. In a word: [yiddish exclamation]! [Adjective] and yet [adjective diametrically opposed to previous adjective], this novel, against all odds (given that the author was [S&M term] in a [household appliance] for [number] years) combines a [french author]ian sense of [rare mammal] power with a remarkably [german adjective] lesson about what happens to the fate of emerging [political units], when the predominant [finely graded socioeconomic class] forgets the true meaning of [untranslated greek word].
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 7:26 AM on May 26, 2005


"dreamy word salad handjobbery"
Well, I think that pretty much sums up the smug hipster wankfest that is Pitchfork. Maybe they should write about Asia and Rainbow seeing as a guy like Ritchie Blackmore probably has more musical talent than any 10 randomly selected Pitchfork favorites combined.
posted by MikeMc at 7:26 AM on May 26, 2005


Pitchfork is Rolling Stone/Spin/whatever for people who delude themselves into thinking that they're too cool for such things. It's why so-called "independent" music blogs and zines all wind up featuring the same flavor of the month indie act instead of the latest boy band/pop tart. You're just a different niche market. Get over yourself. The "independent" part of "indie" rock ceased to mean anything a long time ago.

Jonmc, I don't follow your taste in music, but you're a genius, if only because you're absolutely, 100% correct about Pretentiousfork.
posted by AlexReynolds at 7:29 AM on May 26, 2005


I just read the actual review

how funny
posted by airguitar at 7:29 AM on May 26, 2005


Jonmc, I don't follow your taste in music, but you're a genius, if only because you're absolutely, 100% correct about Pretentiousfork.

Genius? My cat knows Pitchfork is pretentious. The mistake jonmc makes is conflating the attitude with the music.

Here's an example: jonmc's tired, repetitive "I'm just a regular joe with a pack of smokes rolled in my t-shirt sleeve and all you sheep who listen to "indie" rock are a bunch of spoon-fed, ironically-cardigan-wearing dipshits who wouldn't know a good garage rock tune if it showed up in your vintage Pumas" schtick has nothing to do with the fact that he actually has excellent taste in (and an encyclopedic knowledge of) good music.

Conversely, that I happen to like (in addition to much of what jonmc likes) music that has an unfortunate association with forces that consider themselves "hip" and "ironic" doesn't mean that I, or that music, is necessarily "hip" and "ironic".

So by all means continue to shoot fish in the barrel and take some air out of the overwrought and pseudo-intellectual masturbation that passes for prose at Pitchfork. Many of us indie-rock "sheep" will gladly join you. But when you lapse in to your dismissive, lazy, "it all sounds like Morrissey and the Cure" crap, know that it makes you sound like a small-minded idiot.

And that makes me sad: that someone as clearly passionate about music as you, someone as clearly cognizant about the power of pop/rock music to enrich the soul and make the day liveable, is so critical of something as subjective as people's taste in music is frankly mystifying to me.
posted by jalexei at 8:06 AM on May 26, 2005


Eminem, Dirtbombs, Stooges, MC5, Outkast, Dictators, Social Distortion, Replacements, Ramones, Supersuckers, Guided By Voices, Fastbacks, Bell Rays.

Hmmmmmm.
posted by R590 at 8:08 AM on May 26, 2005


jalaxei, to tell the truth, the whole Morrissey thing is half a joke at this point. And yeah, I think most people are as sick of Pitchfork as I am. I just get tired of the predictablility of certain people's canonization (David Cross definitely qualifies) in these parts that the evil monkey that lives in my head can't resist taking them down a notch.

Hmmmmmm.

Huhhhhhh?
posted by jonmc at 8:25 AM on May 26, 2005


And I do stand my statement that it would be more interesting to read a reasoned defense of Night Ranger (I only chose them based on a thousand writers drunk at the keyboard's comment, than a reveiw of the latest "underground sensation," if only because bashing that kind of music has become a lazy way to win cool points.
posted by jonmc at 8:28 AM on May 26, 2005


Dobbs: ...Monument... was a fucking bullshit album. Y'know why? It's boring. It's like PlaySkool My First Post Punk, with nothing individual to to recommend it. It's just a long, endless slog through a genre that was having a hipster revival. I've heard that live they were excellent, but that album (especially the interminable exunt) was the beginning of the break for me with Pitchfork.
Now, their follow up ...Drowned... is actually really good, and I still listen to it. But the Liars got the same overblown slobjob that !!! did, instead of saying that both of them put out kinda decent albums that should really be jumping off points to investigate music that's like that, but takes more chances and is more interesting.

As a side note, for all of you folks talkin' about the Dirtbombs, I hope you check out motorcityrocks.com, and read up on bands like The Paybacks, Outrageous Cherry, The Come Ons, and The Hard Lessons. Also, take a gander over at No Fun Records, who are a Detroit (well, technically, Ann Arbor) rock label run by Argentineans. Bands like The Avatars and The Coronados are excellent, and worth a look. Pick up one of their samplers while you're there, and listen to bands like the Mangazoidos, from Peru. It's kinda fun to think about a lot of bands that they're putting out reissues for existing in military dictatorships where you could get shot for playing rock and roll. But even without that context, the music holds up.
posted by klangklangston at 8:35 AM on May 26, 2005


And that makes me sad: that someone as clearly passionate about music as you, someone as clearly cognizant about the power of pop/rock music to enrich the soul and make the day liveable, is so critical of something as subjective as people's taste in music is frankly mystifying to me.

I'm not sure the criticism is so much about the music, so much as the machinery that hypes it. I think it is a given that music tastes are subjective. But we can discuss whether one press outlet is more legitimate than another.
posted by AlexReynolds at 8:36 AM on May 26, 2005


Freebird!
posted by graventy at 8:43 AM on May 26, 2005


I'm not sure the criticism is so much about the music, so much as the machinery that hypes it.

That's how it should be, I just think jonmc blurs that line sometimes.
posted by jalexei at 8:47 AM on May 26, 2005


And I do stand my statement that it would be more interesting to read a reasoned defense of Night Ranger

It would be an interesting and perverse exercise, I grant you. (And I'll admit to listening to "Don't Tell Me You Love Me" on occasion, given the video's imprint on my gently developing psyche during the early days of MTV - slow-mo spilling wine glass...COOL!! Everything else they did was crap ;-)
posted by jalexei at 8:51 AM on May 26, 2005


...if only because bashing that kind of music has become a lazy way to win cool points.

Fortunately, you don't bash any particular types of music to win cool points.
posted by The Dryyyyy Cracker at 9:03 AM on May 26, 2005


Wow, I guess I've never stumbled into one of these "music discussion" posts before, but it's amazing how jonmc has completely strongarmed the entire thread into being about something it's not. Also, this line of yours, jonmc, makes me laugh a little every time I read it:

But I mean every word I say, and rock and roll means a lot to me
posted by billysumday at 9:08 AM on May 26, 2005


klangklanston, we'll have to agree to disagree on Liars. I've liked all their output so far (lukewarm on the split with Oneida but I don't really like Oneida so that keeps me from spinning it often). I also prefer Drowned to Monument, but I play them both a lot. I'm with you on !!! though.

got the same overblown slobjob

Well, see, I don't read reviews until after I've heard something myself. More of just a way of getting info on the bands rather than finding out whether I should buy something or not. For the most part, I honestly have no idea what is being hyped up the wazoo and the "hype machine" doesn't affect me positively or negatively as I've usually made up my mind before it gets into gear. There are exceptions, of course, but they're rare.

For me, PF became useless as a gauge for quality when they gave Bobby Birdman's Born Free Forever, an album that's an easy 9 for me, a 3.3. As I say, I now just go to the site to see what's on the release sheets of days to come. What they think of the music don't mean shit.

This is one of the things that bothers me most about jonmc... I don't understand why he just doesn't ignore the press and listen to (or not) the music. Almost all the criticisms I've seen of contemporary music that he's made are along the lines of "... If only people would shut up about [arcade fire/interpol/whatever]... and besides, I heard one song and I don't like it." People can like whatever the fuck they want (or hate it) but getting upset because other people like or hate it is laughable. (Everyone does it every once in a while, myself include, but it's not my Reason for Being.) Spend your time/energy doing something--anything--else. Like finding more good music.
posted by dobbs at 9:10 AM on May 26, 2005


de gustibus non est disputandum
posted by airguitar at 9:17 AM on May 26, 2005


semper ubi, sub ubi
posted by Divine_Wino at 9:24 AM on May 26, 2005


doobie doobie doo
posted by jonmc at 9:26 AM on May 26, 2005


Eminem, Dirtbombs, Stooges, MC5, Outkast, Dictators, Social Distortion, Replacements, Ramones, Supersuckers, Guided By Voices, Fastbacks, Bell Rays.

Hmmmmmm.

Huhhhhhh?


It's just that aside from the obvious choices -- Stooges, MC5, Ramones -- I'm not really into the music that you're championing.

To return to David Cross vs. Pitchfork. I say a pox on both your houses . . . in spite of the fact that I enjoy Mr. Show and like to read Pitchfork reviews/news.
posted by R590 at 9:54 AM on May 26, 2005


Dobbs? As an aside, when I see your name in the context of music posts, I can't help but think "Mr. Dobalina, Mr. Bob Dobalina." It's probably just a Sub-Genius reference, but whatever. Mr. Bob Dobalina.

I dunno. I work as a music reviewer, but what I review is almost exclusively local and indie acts. My mag just doesn't get serviced by larger record companies, and that's ok. For a while, I tried to keep up with the national scene as well, but I tend to get most of my music through WCBN, WFMU, and friends' mix tapes. As such, I tend to know less than I'd like about a lot of national touring acts that I've gotta cover, but I tend to be pretty good about finding older stuff that I like. So, for me, Pitchfork was handy in providing a good starting point to look for more info. But I've gotten burned too often to give their reviews much credence, and I simply don't have the time or the resources to track down all that new music while still grabbing music from the past that I like.
I'm OK with disagreeing on the Liars though. And I still think that ...drowned... is a pretty good album.
posted by klangklangston at 10:19 AM on May 26, 2005


Sorry about your thread, airguitar.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 1:36 PM on May 26, 2005


I've always had a soft spot for David Cross after his bit on That Awful Show With David Spade That Shall Not Be Named as "the chicken pot pie boy" (or whatever his official part was in that show.)

As for Detroitistas, the Sympathetic Sounds of Detroit collection on Sympathy for the Record Industry contains tracks from the Dirtbombs, The Paybacks, the Detroit Cobras, and the Come-Ons. Good overview.

Pitchfork aggravates me, but they do give a good overview of what's new out there. Some albums they hate I like, some they love I detest. I still like seeing what other people think, regardless of their bent.
posted by fet at 2:28 PM on May 26, 2005


DirtyNumbAngelBoy: Excellent - had to give it a go.

The overall effect was like The Water Babies meets Blake's 7 on absinthe (the kind with wormwood), or listening to John Woo talk about Richard Huelsenbeck with Anne Robinson. In a word: You are the weakest link, OY VEY! Erect and yet pendulous, this thread, against all odds (given that the poster was squicked in a dishwasher for 25 years) combines a Sidonie Gabrielle Coletteian sense of platypus power with a remarkably sturm-und-drang lesson about what happens to the fate of emerging whigs, when the predominant upper-middle of the upper middle class forgets the true meaning of parthenogenesis.
posted by Sparx at 6:40 PM on May 26, 2005


Metafilter: You are the weakest link, OY VEY!
posted by VulcanMike at 7:26 AM on May 28, 2005


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