a failure for the Fourth Amendment

June 8, 2005 8:36 AM

LossofPrivacyFilter: 1) Patriot Act Expansion Bill Approved in Secret, which now provides a new ‘administrative subpoena’ authority (that) would let the FBI write and approve its own search orders for intelligence investigations, without prior judicial approval. ...Flying in the face of the Fourth Amendment, this power would let agents seize personal records from medical facilities, libraries, hotels, gun dealers, banks and any other businesses without any specific facts connecting those records to any criminal activity or a foreign agent. ..., and from the Justice Department: 2) Most health care employees can't be prosecuted for stealing personal data, and finally, 3) Citibank admits losing 4 million customer files.
These 3 examples all within the past few days--any others i missed?
posted by amberglow (31 comments total)

Approved in committee, that is. Not quite the same thing as "approved."
posted by MrMoonPie at 8:40 AM on June 8, 2005

4) Metafilter leaks member's political affiliations
posted by srboisvert at 8:57 AM on June 8, 2005

Metafilter leaks member's political affiliations


Wonderful. Now concerned with personal privacy automatically = liberal and in favor of doing away with personal rights automtically = conservative. Automatically.
posted by sourwookie at 9:01 AM on June 8, 2005

I really hope the adminstrative subpoena thing gets quashed in the Judiciary Comm. or on the floor, but I'm not holding my breath. I really like the part where the Intelligence Comm. considered simply informing a judge (not getting his or her permission) too onerous as a potential compromise. Jackasses!
posted by OmieWise at 9:06 AM on June 8, 2005

Strictly speaking, it was UPS that lost the Citibank data.
posted by IndigoJones at 9:08 AM on June 8, 2005

Bankruptcy reform

130 billion down to 10 billion

Suck it long and suck it hard America
posted by Mr_Zero at 9:08 AM on June 8, 2005

As we all know, the ACLU is a unpartisan and unbiased source of information on the Patriot Act.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 9:10 AM on June 8, 2005

OmieWise writes "I really like the part where the Intelligence Comm. considered simply informing a judge (not getting his or her permission) too onerous as a potential compromise. Jackasses!"


STFU lib'rul. Don't you know the judges have other things to do besides rubber-stamping these requests?

They're too busy hiding from justifiably angry people who are understandably impelled to violence by activist judges!

SENATOR JOHN CORNYN: "I don't know if there is a cause-and-effect connection but we have seen some recent episodes of courthouse violence in this country. Certainly nothing new, but we seem to have run through a spate of courthouse violence recently that's been on the news and I wonder whether there may be some connection between the perception in some quarters on some occasions where judges are making political decisions yet are unaccountable to the public, that it builds up and builds up and builds up to the point where some people engage in - engage in violence." [Senate Floor, 4/4/05]

posted by orthogonality at 9:12 AM on June 8, 2005

I, for one, welcome our fascist overlords and would like to remind them, that as a trusted MeFi personality, I would be useful in rounding up---- dfgsd

NO CARRIER
posted by keswick at 9:12 AM on June 8, 2005

Steve_at_Linnwood writes "As we all know, the ACLU is a unpartisan and unbiased source of information on the Patriot Act."


Ok, Steve, you tell us: what would be an unpartisan and unbiased source of information on teh Patriot Act?
posted by orthogonality at 9:14 AM on June 8, 2005

amberglow, did you see the ACLU's slogan in the first link?

Keep America Safe and Free.

What the hell is up with that? Safe trumps Free is exactly how the Bush Administration will justify this pernicious assault on the Constitution.

Go home ALCU. You no longer got game.
posted by three blind mice at 9:16 AM on June 8, 2005

Wonderful. Now concerned with personal privacy automatically = liberal and in favor of doing away with personal rights automtically = conservative. Automatically.

That's a big huge leap (leak!) from what I said. It was a joke relating to metafilter in general.

You really are a sour wookie.
posted by srboisvert at 9:18 AM on June 8, 2005

don't forget 2), which i've heard is related to this AHIC thing: ...a private-public collaboration called the American Health Information Community (AHIC), will help nationwide transition to electronic health records -- including common standards and interoperability -- in a smooth, market-led way. ...
posted by amberglow at 9:28 AM on June 8, 2005

As we all know, the ACLU is a unpartisan and unbiased source of information on the Patriot Act.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 9:10 AM PST on June 8

Okay, where do you suggest we get information on the Patriot Act and what is your take on the committee-approved expansion?
posted by Optimus Chyme at 9:38 AM on June 8, 2005

shhhh!!

aht-nay aife-say oo-tay alk-tay eer-hay...
posted by Jon-o at 9:49 AM on June 8, 2005

My god. Three un-related and and perfectly innocuous events are thrown together to create outrage about privacy with the comment at the top "a failure of the Fourth Amendment." Do you not realize that trying to generate outrage at non-events makes people too fatigued to get upset about serious things when they come about? Do you care? Or is your sole goal in life to try to make daily political points. This is a sloppy FPP and, if there were any standards, it should be deleted.

1) Patriot Act Expansion Bill Approved in Secret

It's not really a secret if we know about it, is it? Furthermore, this was a subcommittee, so its not really law is it?

This is pathetic. A bill has to still be passed before its a law. But you make a stupid, intentionally hysterical FPP intended to create the image that it was passed in the secret of the night and became law. It's revolting how much dissonance you will use to grind your axe.

This will be debated and modified. And I suspect you know this. But you are acting as if its already law and was pulled off by a sneaky trick. Preposterous.

2) Most health care employees can't be prosecuted for stealing personal data

As someone who deals with HIPAA on a daily basis, let me note that you obviously don't understand what this opinion by the AG is saying.

HIPAA applies, by the term of the statute, to health care providers and health care professionals. It does not say that it applies to employees of health care providers. Consequently, the rule merely was an exercise of statutory interpretation.

One cannot be charged with violating a statute if one is not within the class of people the statute covers. It's a completely obvious legal point that isn't an authorization of theft of materials.

How on earth you think this opinion effects your privacy or is a failure of the Fourth Amendment is beyond comprehension.

3) Citibank admits losing 4 million customer files.

It was an accident by a PRIVATE carrier. How on god's bloody earth is this an indication that you have lost your privacy rights? How the hell does this implicate the Fourth Amendment?

__________

This is pathetic amberglow, even for you. You are clearly trying to generate outrage over three non-events without even trying to decide if there was any link between the events or real effects of them. And here you were just the other day calling into question someone's motivation for posting. Shame on you.
posted by dios at 10:08 AM on June 8, 2005

Gee, thanks dios.
posted by Jon-o at 10:37 AM on June 8, 2005

If there was any real substance to this post, I'd probably agree with amberglow. But eh, it's pretty lame and dios more or less summed it up.
posted by angry modem at 10:38 AM on June 8, 2005

It was an accident by a PRIVATE carrier.

While true, it is the legal responsibility of Citibank to take precausions to keep customer data safe. In this case, not only was the method of transport ridiculous, but the data itself was unencrypted.

But I'm not sure how this relates to the 4th amendment, either.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 10:42 AM on June 8, 2005

Dios: While it was probably a mistake to mention the Fourth Amendment in the post title (it would have been a more effective post had amberglow just stopped at bemoaning a general "loss of privacy"), I think the wording of your comment leaves a bit to be desired as well.

One cannot be charged with violating a statute if one is not within the class of people the statute covers.

True... but perhaps they should be. This is a case for lawmakers, of course, but the fact that the theft of personal data by anyone is legal galls me.


And I hardly think that the loss of 4 million customer files by Citibank is an "innocuous event" or a "non-event" as you claim. It may not implicate the 4th Amendment, but your language suggests that you think this is acceptable.
posted by the_bone at 11:19 AM on June 8, 2005

"A bill has to still be passed before its a law."

Too true. Too true.

And our public officials have contemplated many a stupid thing in their time...
So.....what are the odds then of it becoming a law? 51 to 1 in favor?
posted by Smedleyman at 12:13 PM on June 8, 2005

amberglow, did you see the ACLU's slogan in the first link?

Keep America Safe and Free.

What the hell is up with that? Safe trumps Free is exactly how the Bush Administration will justify this pernicious assault on the Constitution.

Go home ALCU. You no longer got game.

Safe and free are not mutually exclusive concepts.
posted by leftcoastbob at 1:07 PM on June 8, 2005

Why does shit like extending the patriot act keep happening?

A majority of Americans didn't want the Bankruptcy bill, yet it passed. A vast majority of Americans don't have a problem with medical Marijuana, yet congress defeats it easily. A now, most Americans don't even agree with the patriot act as it is now written, and yet congress is going go counter to the wishes of the people.

Who the hell are they serving? It isn't their constituents.

What the hell is wrong with the American people? Don't have any outrage and passion left after watching American Idol?

What the hell is wrong with the press? Don't they get tired of playing 'pivot man' in the circle jerk that our country has become? No more skepticism, no more curiosity.

How will history judge this era?
posted by UseyurBrain at 3:52 PM on June 8, 2005

Poorly, I'm afraid.
posted by Balisong at 5:24 PM on June 8, 2005

A majority of Americans didn't want the Bankruptcy bill, yet it passed. ... A now, most Americans don't even agree with the patriot act as it is now written

You sure about the term "majority" there? You seem to throw it around pretty loosely.

and yet congress is going go counter to the wishes of the people.

Counter to the wishes of the people who reelected them after passing the Patriot Act in the first place?

A vast majority of Americans don't have a problem with medical Marijuana, yet congress defeats it easily.

Ignoring the fact that there is a very large difference between supporting and not "having a problem with" something ...

If you are going to rant perhaps you should know about what you rant. It was the Supreme Court, not Congress, that "defeated" medical Marijuana.

I am sure a majority of Americans would say your comments are incoherent.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 7:20 PM on June 8, 2005

No, Congress has had ample opportunity to change the law and they simply don't, no matter what their constituents think.

Do you believe that the pot should be outlawed for sick people?

72% is a vast majority

bankruptcy Bill Polling

Patriot Act Getting no Love?

Yes, I was ranting because I hate what my party has become; A bunch of pussies that pleasure the religious right and could give a damn about people who actually work for a living.

As for your last comment...cute. You stick to the party line and you want to play games. Kind of sums up the Republican party right now and explains why I left.
posted by UseyurBrain at 8:31 PM on June 8, 2005

As for your last comment...cute. You stick to the party line and you want to play games. Kind of sums up the Republican party right now and explains why I left.

Besides that Steve is my honky buddy, I really didn't see anything all that republican in his last comment, and is yet another comment designed to deride perceived character rather than content. I see this as one of the major problems of political discussion, in that people who are unable to seperate their emotions and ego from their thoughts. Not that I or anyone else mentioned is innocent, of course. Carry on, my wayward son. I'm a toasty aardvark.
posted by angry modem at 9:40 PM on June 8, 2005

Yeah, nothing is worth getting pissed off about anymore. And the world is a better place because of it.
posted by UseyurBrain at 6:25 AM on June 9, 2005

Steve_at_Linnwood writes "If you are going to rant perhaps you should know about what you rant. It was the Supreme Court, not Congress, that 'defeated' medical Marijuana."

Steve who created the law criminalizing weed in the first place? I'm pretty sure it wasn't the justices. I don't think you can blame the supreme court for find the law consitutional.
posted by Mitheral at 8:32 AM on June 9, 2005

Sensenbrenner cuts off hearing on Patriot Act--see the video here
posted by amberglow at 9:49 AM on June 10, 2005

40 million more: A security breach of customer information at a credit card transaction company could expose to fraud up to 40 million cardholders of multiple brands, MasterCard International Inc. said Friday.
The credit card giant said its security division detected multiple instances of fraud that tracked back to CardSystems Solutions Inc., which processes credit card and other payments for banks and merchants.
The compromised data included names, banks and account numbers - not addresses or Social Security numbers, said MasterCard spokeswoman Sharon Gamsin. Such data could be used to steal funds but not identities. ...
posted by amberglow at 8:14 PM on June 17, 2005