Comments on: .

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amberglow — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:37:50 -0800

UpdateFilter: Schiavo autopsy results --contrary to those who used this poor shell of a woman as a political football and fundraiser, Schiavo was not abused, was blind so could not possibly have seen a balloon or her loved ones, and had a brain half the normal weight that was massively and irreversibly damaged. previous posts here--and just one example of the many many lies printed about her and her husband here. Some people should really be ashamed of themselves.

By: The Dryyyyy Cracker

The Dryyyyy Cracker — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:42:54 -0800

But they won't be.

By: docpops

docpops — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:44:35 -0800

If someone could just link to Yahoo discussions this will go a lot faster.

By: docpops

docpops — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:46:13 -0800

This is probably a good thing, i.e. had the autopsy been anything even remotely equivocal as far as brain mass, all hell would have (re) broken loose. I'm still waiting to see whether or not the pathologist winds up getting dissected and brutalized.

By: fenriq

fenriq — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:47:33 -0800

Hmm, so she wasn't faking? My co-worker owes me five bucks.

By: Plutor

Plutor — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:47:58 -0800

Medical activism!

By: modernerd

modernerd — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:55:11 -0800

Darn those sciency types and their inconvenient facts! :} Snark aside, the liberal element saved that poor woman from an indeterminate period of unknown suffering. I hope all those people who fought for her to be forced to live against her own will (via husband) go braindead except for their pain centers, and are forced to live 20+ years blind and vegetative with a %#* tube down their throats.

By: philmas

philmas — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:55:53 -0800

Sadly, I don't believe that the autopsy results are going to change many minds about the Terry Schiavo case.

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:56:52 -0800

Thanks for the update.

By: OmieWise

OmieWise — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:02:25 -0800

Thanks amberglow, the autopsy was nothing if not conclusive.

By: ilsa

ilsa — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:08:59 -0800

May she finally rest in peace.

By: agregoli

agregoli — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:09:01 -0800

Thanks for the update!

By: mkultra

mkultra — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:11:18 -0800

Amber, buddy, I agree with your sentiments 100%, but you know as well as anyone that links to the CNN top story and editorializing on it do not a good post make.

By: cbjg

cbjg — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:17:06 -0800

Plutor nails it!

By: GeekAnimator

GeekAnimator — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:19:48 -0800

Amber, buddy, I agree with your sentiments 100%, but you know as well as anyone that links to the CNN top story and editorializing on it do not a good post make. Worth repeating.

By: thedevildancedlightly

thedevildancedlightly — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:22:44 -0800

By: Balisong

Balisong — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:25:07 -0800

*pulls tiddles plug*

By: The Jesse Helms

The Jesse Helms — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:26:19 -0800

Being flogged by a dead poliveg is not exactly "best of the web."

By: elderling

elderling — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:27:36 -0800

Gay marriage: check. Florida vegetable: check. Runaway bride: check. Jacko innocent: check. I wonder what the next emotionally-charged fringe issue will be. Whatever it is, I bet it will really polarize us and distract us from real issues, such as heath care, jobs, civil liberties, and education.

By: c13

c13 — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:29:19 -0800

Schiavo ... had a brain half the normal weight... Some people should really be ashamed of themselves. Why? That's twice the amount of brain mass then these people have put together... On preview: thedevildancedlightly, you have it slightly wrong; this is what YOU know now. The doctors who treated her knew it THEN. There IS a difference.

By: MildlyDisturbed

MildlyDisturbed — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:29:31 -0800

thedevildancedlightly, anyone who was in the field of anything to do with brains who saw those old brain scans knew she was braindead. We knew it then. All the stuff about how she was alive and could recover came from the family, and people who have eternal hope that against the odds a woman with most of her brain gone would recover. The doc who came out and said she could make a full recovery, if you look at his history, advertises in the enquirer and has no published papers... Anyhoo... not a flame... just saying, there was solid evidence she was dead years ago before this became a media circus

By: fenriq

fenriq — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:30:16 -0800

thedevildancedlightly, you're right, the autopsy report wasn't available while she was still alive but there was plenty of evidence buried in all the rhetoric that she was incapable of recovery. All this is is just proving what many already knew and a final "Suck it" to the publicity whores that tried to use her for their own political, medical and soapboxinal purposes.

By: AlexReynolds

AlexReynolds — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:30:27 -0800

I suspect a lot of people are going to smile and smugly think to themselves "we won." posted by dios at 11:28 AM EST on March 25 [!] Woohoo! We won the autopsy!

By: SweetJesus

SweetJesus — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:30:56 -0800

whether to pull the plug or not when AT THE TIME it is uncertain how "alive" somebody is and what their wishes are No, that's bullshit. Only one crackpot doctor who diagnosed her via a video tape said she wasn't brain dead. Otherwise, it was an accepted fact.

By: mdn

mdn — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:34:17 -0800

Snark aside, the liberal element saved that poor woman from an indeterminate period of unknown suffering. nope, she was brain dead: nothing there to undergo suffering. Thanks for the update, though; glad to see the doctors were right. We know this NOW, not when the decision was made to pull the plug. well, we were perhaps less completely sure at the time the decision was made, but the best medical assessments were exactly this. The fact that we couldn't cut her open and double-check left room for speculation, but the reason the court ended up ruling as it did was precisely because science was pretty sure about its diagnosis.

By: ltl

ltl — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:34:59 -0800

The full autopsy report [pdf] provided by Abstract Appeal, which had good coverage of the appeals process.

By: ltl

ltl — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:37:13 -0800

Sorry. Working link to Abstract Appeal.

By: Floydd

Floydd — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:45:07 -0800

Schiavo's Parents Don't Believe Autopsy Results Surprise, surprise....

By: caddis

caddis — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:46:23 -0800

There were no winners in this.

By: KirkJobSluder

KirkJobSluder — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:49:32 -0800

From what I can tell, this isn't changing any minds. Both her diagnosis, and her wishes were kicked back and forth through a legal system predisposed to err or the side of continued matainance multiple times. At the end, it simply became an issue of how many times her parents were willing to loose in court in the hopes of finding a judge that would go their way.

By: caddis

caddis — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:50:23 -0800

I can excuse the parents as they were just too weak willed to accept reality. Everyone else who helped them bears the real shame in using Terry's tragedy for mere political gain.

By: orthogonality

orthogonality — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:55:39 -0800

thedevildancedlightly writes "It's great that we know NOW that she was completely comatose, but does that suggest that it's a good idea to pull the plug on people when at the time it's less certain?" Senator Frist -- Doctor Senator Frist -- was "certain" that Terry Schiavo responded to visual stimuli. Because he watched a video tape. Let me ask you, thedevildancedlightly, would you put your mother under Frist's medical care?

By: Carbolic

Carbolic — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:57:10 -0800

I'm glad amber posted it. I could have read the story on CNN but I wouldn't have gotten the additional comment input. A good post comes as much from the discussion that follows as it does from the initial link.

By: Bag Man

Bag Man — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:05:49 -0800

We know this NOW, not when the decision was made to pull the plug. It's great that we know NOW that she was completely comatose, but does that suggest that it's a good idea to pull the plug on people when at the time it's less certain? At the time when the decision was made to remove the feeding tube this evidence was not available. I'd go as far as to say that this result is completely irrelevant to the debate that was going on -- whether to pull the plug or not when AT THE TIME it is uncertain how "alive" somebody is and what their wishes are. How can you say that? The information we have now is nothing new. The same information was known during most of the 15 year ordeal. Doctors did many brain wave scans and CAT scans and came up with the same results many times. Her brain was tested and and her wishes were litigated many, many times over 15 years by many doctors, case works, lawyers and over 30 judges. Besides one can never know 110% for sure. That's there is a system in place to make sure doctors and judges review this information over and over again. In this case, she got more review, more tests and more second bites at the apple that anyone could ever hope to get. When is enough, enough? Unless you are willing to spend 100% of GDP on such cases review must be stopped at some point. In her case that normal point was exceed at least 100 fold. Again, inquires such as this, as you seem to support, cannot go on forever.

By: Bag Man

Bag Man — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:08:02 -0800

Schiavo's Parents Don't Believe Autopsy Results "Hi Mr. and Mrs. Schindler, I'm Earth. Have we met?"

By: matteo

matteo — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:08:14 -0800

Let me ask you, thedevildancedlightly, would you put your mother under Frist's medical care? is thedevildance's mom rich, and a widow?

By: kgasmart

kgasmart — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:08:19 -0800

But this is par for the course, isn't it? Science essentially proves the case of those who said there was no hope for recovery, but for those who insisted there was it was never about science in the first place - it was about faith, it was about miracles, it was about anti-science; it was about how science and the cold calculations inherent in it are essentially dehumanizing. That's the subtext to Schiavo, to stem cells, to the whole "culture of life" debate; in a world where science is able to explain more and more, what shall remain sacred? The problem is that the shrill "defenders" of Terri Schiavo never approached the debate from this angle; they preferred the art of the smear ("her husband abused her/all he wanted was her money"), they preferred to do the long-distance bullshit diagnosis a la Dr. Frist, they lied. As caddis notes, from the parents I can understand the self-delusion; for everyone else it ultimately became about power, about who will define what life is.

By: aGreatNotion

aGreatNotion — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:15:46 -0800

Goddamn activist medical examiners... sheesh.

By: Floach

Floach — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:27:52 -0800

To have shame, one must first have a conscience.

By: dhoyt

dhoyt — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:31:21 -0800

Stellar FPP.

By: Debaser626

Debaser626 — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:38:01 -0800

Who's Terri Schiavo?

By: dios

dios — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:38:47 -0800

If someone could just link to Yahoo discussions this will go a lot faster. posted by docpops at 10:44 AM PST on June 15 I flagged this as a good comment. But it is annoying that this website is not appreciably different than Yahoo! News discussions: "Here is a news article. Lets discuss!" _______________ If I made one FPP to news.yahoo.com and www.cnn.com, how many of the posts recently would be considered double posts? Too many

By: wakko

wakko — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:39:48 -0800

thedevildancedlightly: We know this NOW, not when the decision was made to pull the plug. I'd go as far as to say that this result is completely irrelevant to the debate that was going on -- whether to pull the plug or not when AT THE TIME it is uncertain If I replace "pull the plug" with "go to war", could this be your explanation for Iraq, too?

By: notreally

notreally — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:47:44 -0800

It's a good thing we are unable to determine with 100% accuracy whether someone executed by the state was truly guilty or not. I wonder if TDDL takes a similar stance on capital punishment as do some less erudite fundies.

By: bshort

bshort — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:55:15 -0800

dios - Really. Seriously. Fuck off. If you hate metafilter so much why do you keep coming back?

By: wakko

wakko — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:56:48 -0800

notreally: I think he just takes whatever position he thinks will prompt the most replies to his profoundly stupid posts.

By: gsb

gsb — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:58:23 -0800

dios, "they won"... don't be a sore loser.

By: justgary

justgary — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:58:51 -0800

Thanks for the update. posted by five fresh fish I agree, if amberglow wouldn't have posted this front page cnn/foxnews/nytimes article how in the world would we have found out?

By: Witty

Witty — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:00:20 -0800

Schiavo's Parents Don't Believe Autopsy Results Because they're idiots. Stellar FPP. And it remains because nobody can ever say "no" to Mefi's most favoritest homo. {coddle coddle}

By: modernerd

modernerd — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:03:58 -0800

The fark thread for this is huge. I hear freerepublic is spinning madly. And the right wingnut news sites are already pretending this makes no difference and that they were right (which is BS). bshort: because he can't kvetch where he likes the place?

By: agregoli

agregoli — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:05:43 -0800

Why is everyone so hard on dios when the comment isn't anything new? I sort of agree there. I mean, yeah, a lot of FPPs have been newsposts lately. That's a fact. I don't mind this one though. I am glad for the update and ensuing discussion.

By: Balisong

Balisong — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:08:33 -0800

And it remains because nobody can ever say "no" to Mefi's most favoritest homo. {coddle coddle} posted by Witty at 1:00 PM PST on June 15 [!] Amberglow's GAY!! Huh.. You learn something new every day.

By: Dr. Zira

Dr. Zira — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:08:35 -0800

After watching the doctors' press conference, I was impressed with the thoroughness of the autopsy report and how carefully they chose their words to write their conclusions, only to want to scream at the television as journalists misrepresent the findings with a lack of carefully chosen words in their reporting. For example, I've heard two journalists (the first being Daryn Kagan, as I was watching the press conference on CNN) report the autopsy results as having concluded she was in a "persistent vegetative state", when the doctors were very careful to explain that her condition was consistent to that of a person in a consistent vegetative state. I realize that reporters have a tough job to do, especially with live, developing stories, but it seems to me that if you can't carefully listen to words and accurately report on them, you might want to find a different line of work. That having been said, I would love to believe that the facts and findings of the autopsy will provide an opportunity for all of those who made such horrible accusations about Michael Schiavo to reconsider their opinions. Unfortunately, between the sad state of journalism in our country and a seemingly contagious viral resistance to critical thinking, I have lost faith in the ability of a thin, yet overrepresented majority of our society to form rational, reasoned opinions based upon the facts of a case.

By: Darkman

Darkman — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:08:53 -0800

"...anyone who was in the field of anything to do with brains who saw those old brain scans knew she was braindead." Does that include zombies? Braaaaiiiinnnnsssss....

By: docpops

docpops — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:19:31 -0800

Well, I always thought, being relatively new here, that part of the responsibility of MeTa membership was to avoid the obvious post. And I think this post is as newsfilter as any can be. And as well, the level of discussion is pure shit, with few exceptions. So why pile on dios? If this fpp came from anyone with a newer membership it would have been flagged already and removed. I think if someone posts something this mediocre, fine, let them, but have the stones to endure some reasonable reminders of why newsfilter posts suck. My personal feeling is that it ties up brains and eyeballs on posts and discussions that would be more enlightening and interesting elsewhere.

By: stenseng

stenseng — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:23:10 -0800

I love it when folks on the right here at mefi are conclusively, indsiputably proven incorrect on a subject. Suddenly it's "shit post, bad fpp, newsfilter, who cares?" time... Imagine the moralistic finger wagging that would be taking place had the examiner even found inconclusive results.

By: docpops

docpops — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:27:18 -0800

stenseng, just in the off chance you are referring to me, I'm what you might call...not very conservative. The tone of your post, ironically, only confirms my original comment. Garbage in, garbage out.

By: Smedleyman

Smedleyman — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:28:01 -0800

"Schiavo's Parents Don't Believe Autopsy Results" Because she could still rise from the grave.

By: Fezboy!

Fezboy! — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:29:30 -0800

The three day warranty has passed on that, Smedleyman.

By: stenseng

stenseng — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:30:19 -0800

And honestly, I for one am really kind of sick of the constant yowling and kvetching over the relative merits of fpps - don't like the post? move the shit on. Should take less than a fraction of a second to glance over a post and see if it merits your interest. How long does it take you to post that "shit post" snark? I've been reading Metafilter for about four years now, and generally, I find the content to be about 50% random sometimes interesting stuff (your "best of the web") and about 50% newsfilter/topical discussion/current events/debate and discussion And to me anyway, that's okay. I read Metafilter to find stuff that's of interest and to learn more about the world, and that's fine, whether it's a series of links about the Oak Island Treasure, Balinese Cockfighting, or what some jagoff like Bill Frist is up to now. Let's spend more time posting interesting stuff, and less time snarking. And if you don't like the post, move on, flag it, or better yet, post something better. Let Matt worry about the quality/appropriateness of a post. It's his gig.

By: bshort

bshort — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:32:59 -0800

By: Witty

Witty — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:35:39 -0800

stenseng, and in case you were referring to me... I think they should have pulled the plug on that woman about 14 years ago.

By: docpops

docpops — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:40:24 -0800

stenseng, Personally I don't usually find Yahoo front-page posts a big deal, but you know, I think members of MeTa are sort of protective of this place. I think for some, myself included, there's a real aversion to seeing things get littered up with the same crap and dross as everywhere else, and so some things are met with more visceral responses. And that's OK. People should feel free to be critical if they want. I think that you would literally have to be in a box not to have seen this story six different times if you happen to also have access to a computer and therefore MeTa. And the subject was vile and nauseating the first twenty times. rather than engaging in a substantive discussion. posted by bshort at 1:32 PM PST on June 15 [!] Please show me anything substantive on this thread.

By: tr33hggr

tr33hggr — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:44:47 -0800

I thought Witty was MeFi's favorite homo?

By: dios

dios — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:45:10 -0800

Why pile on dios? Because he never has anything substantive to contribute to the conversation and when a post is about something that he dislikes he immediately starts whining about whether the post meets the guidelines rather than engaging in a substantive discussion. posted by bshort at 1:32 PM PST on June 15 This is nonsense. I contribute substantive things all the time. But you think I should engage in "substantive" discussion in this thread? WHAT could be substantive in this thread? Apparently everything other than cracks on Christians or "Me too" is considered lacking in substance by you. And if you think I "whine" every time I see a post I don't like, then you are clearly wrong. If I did that, in the present state Metafilter is in, my contribution index would be about 5 times what it is now.

By: bshort

bshort — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:50:36 -0800

If you don't like the thread then either move on or take it to MeTa. You're breaking the very guidelines that you claim to hold in such high esteem. And by the way, your claims of a bad thread would resonate more if they didn't stink of sour grapes.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:52:32 -0800

God would have saved her if her parents loved her just a little bit more.

By: AlexReynolds

AlexReynolds — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:59:13 -0800

And it remains because nobody can ever say "no" to Mefi's most favoritest homo. {coddle coddle} Shiavo and now Witty! The braindead have risen!

By: AlexReynolds

AlexReynolds — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:59:31 -0800

Halleluah!

By: AlexReynolds

AlexReynolds — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:02:34 -0800

This is nonsense. I contribute substantive things all the time. I suppose Dios is right, if his definition of "substantive contributions" includes kicking cripples around.

By: dios

dios — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:08:27 -0800

Alex, you have brought that up a half dozen times now, but apparently you won't quit trolling until I address you. (Instead, you will just continue to show what a pathetic and immature person you are). The first thread, HERE on Metafilter isn't insulting "cripples" as anyone who bothers to look at it can tell. It is a thread about an interesting documentary about people who have a desire to mutilate themselves. The other thread is a joke from off-site, which is obviously a joke as I claim that it is me. Its lame for you to be bringing off-site stuff here and act like it is so damnig. I'm really getting tired of your endless trolling of me with stupid petty gripes. You really need to grow up and get a life. You are not even 1/1000th as clever as you think you are, and you continually bring up stuff that doesn't prove the points you assert that they prove---you just mischaracterize it and slander me anywhay. So knock it off your incessant and pointless trolling of me. I have asked you several times now.

By: agregoli

agregoli — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:09:10 -0800

I really enjoyed that second linked thread.

By: AlexReynolds

AlexReynolds — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:12:11 -0800

So knock it off your incessant and pointless trolling of me. I have asked you several times now. Remember, God: Disagreement with someone is not trolling. So take your endless stream of bullshit and whining to Metatalk or STFU, already.

By: docpops

docpops — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:12:20 -0800

The post / thread on limb amputation was actually really fucking amazing.

By: Witty

Witty — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:13:05 -0800

The braindead have risen! Then please, I beg you to put me out of my misery and kill yourself... take pamperglow-boy with you.

By: docpops

docpops — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:13:16 -0800

AR - you are sounding like a total cock-helmet.

By: insomnia_lj

insomnia_lj — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:13:58 -0800

"Schiavo. . . had a brain half the normal weight that was massively and irreversibly damaged" ...but could she vote Republican?!

By: Floydd

Floydd — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:15:35 -0800

AlexReynolds, calling voluntary amputees "cripples" is like calling the Menendez brothers "orphans." And that front page post of dios' was pretty good. This thread, however, is mostly poop.

By: AlexReynolds

AlexReynolds — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:15:40 -0800

Then please, I beg you to put me out of my misery and kill yourself... take pamperglow-boy with you. That comeback was so totally weak, Witty: don't you have some more homo material?! HAR HAR HAR!

By: insomnia_lj

insomnia_lj — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:18:22 -0800

My mistake. Given the voter rolls in Florida, Mrs. Schiavo may still be eligible to vote.

By: Witty

Witty — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:26:12 -0800

It's not a comeback sweetie... it's a plea.

By: caddis

caddis — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:26:26 -0800

You guys are totally out of line here. Dios had a valid comment about newsfilter and you seem to pile on him because of his prior history. Now we get Witty name calling. Step away from the keyboard and relax.

By: Malor

Malor — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:32:48 -0800

thedevildancedlightly, if you actually paid attention to what the DOCTORS said, it was a certainty that this would be the outcome. There was no doubt. None. Zero. We had all the information then that we do now. There is nothing new here. This isn't proof... it was ALREADY proved. Any claims to the contrary both were and are wishful thinking. And it was obvious to anyone willing to actually research the issue a bit.

By: agregoli

agregoli — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:33:34 -0800

Right on, caddis! This thread is over though, right?

By: Optimus Chyme

Optimus Chyme — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:34:43 -0800

Let's try to get back on track, kids. What's funny about both the news story and FPP is that, indeed, the story would only have been shocking if the autopsy report revealed that Ms. Schiavo had indeed been a functioning human being and capable of recovery. The reason that it's such a non-story is that only a fucking maroon - and I won't mention any names - would possibly think that anyone "killed" Terri or would expect the autopsy results to be any different.

By: dhoyt

dhoyt — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:34:55 -0800

All in all, this has been a tremendous thread. Though the post itself was pretty shaky—understandably, though, considering it was crafted by a rank amateur who has not been around MeFi for very long, thus couldn't have known any better—things have really reached an intellectual pitch here downthread, so: kudos. Threads like these are like 'the old days' for which certain folks pine: shitslinging, partisan blather, and I-Told-You-So-Itis. Anyone up for a MetaTalk thread where we can fondly reflect on the experience?

By: Witty

Witty — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:36:44 -0800

This thread is over though, right? Not until Ace and Gary have publicly off-ed themselves.

By: dreamsign

dreamsign — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:37:27 -0800

Ok, there does seem to be quite a bit of "I-told-you-so-filter" here on MeFi. Part of this is natural umbrage at the constant denial of reality upheld by a certain side of the political spectrum. I do have to agree with the "move on" people, though. It only clutters up this much of your screen if you actually bother to enter the thread. Otherwise, it's what? Half a dozen lines? Skip it. Or does that movie at the local art house bother you so much that no one else should be allowed to see it, either? As for whether this could be caught elsewhere, honestly? I caught the headline here and there and never bothered to read the story. I'd rather have the story and comments of one of my favourite online communities if I were to be bothered with it at all. Had I guessed that most of the thread would be snarking about "appropriateness", though, I wouldn't have bothered. *This* is an appropriate use of the Blue?

By: AlexReynolds

AlexReynolds — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:39:48 -0800

It's not a comeback sweetie... it's a plea. That was the best fag joke you had? What a lazy, pathetic attempt to derail. No commitment from these weasely, sniveling trolls whatsoever...

By: matteo

matteo — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:43:43 -0800

All in all, this has been a tremendous thread. well, thank God you saved it! I alaso appreciated how, as usual, sen Miller, you just attacked the damn evil lib'rul -- saying nothing about the cynical, heartless fucks (some of them in Congress) who tried to convince America that Schiavo was seeing, thinking, talking, playing chess, etc. evidence to the contrary notwithstanding. oh, I also liked how you immediately called out dios on the "homo" slur. too bad amberglow's not Italian, too, I guess!

By: bshort

bshort — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:44:31 -0800

I hope that this whole thing reinforces the idea that we should listen to doctors and scientists. They go to school for years and years and years in service to the search for truth and we ignore them at our peril. Going all anti-intellectual and making ludicrous claims because your political sensibilities are offended is just a bad bad idea.

By: elwoodwiles

elwoodwiles — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:45:07 -0800

Watching some of you people waste so much time on metafilter has made me realize I waste too much time on metafilter.

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:46:31 -0800

I agree, if amberglow wouldn't have posted this front page cnn/foxnews/nytimes article how in the world would we have found out?

I honestly have not seen hide nor hair of this information in my webbrowsing today and yesterday. I do monitor six new sources, but none are US American dailies; and I do monitor a bunch of blogs, but most of them are of the tech/geek/art/business sort. I do not monitor the popular "personal interest" craptastical spew that vomits forth from the media. So for me, it was nice to be informed. Weak-ass post, more appropriate to MeTa, but there it is.

By: Witty

Witty — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:49:12 -0800

dreamsign - Other than, maybe, thedevildancedlightly (and I think he/she was just trying to make a potential point), who in this thread has been trying to argue against the I-told-you-so's? Wasn't me. dhoyt?

By: dios

dios — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:49:48 -0800

I also liked how you immediately called out dios on the "homo" slur. posted by matteo at 2:43 PM PST on June 15 What are you talking about? I know I'm your boogey-straw man that you like to burn, but you are wrong on this, and should apologize.

By: AlexReynolds

AlexReynolds — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:52:08 -0800

Don't hold your breath, trollboy.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:54:30 -0800

Mefi's most favoritest homo here, Witty. What part of "UpdateFilter" did you not understand? Was it the "Update" part? the "Filter" part? The links to all the many previous stories here on her tragedy? It's not complicated. Go play in the Michael Jackson thread, why don't you? or the GOP porn star thread. Or...maybe...just maybe...you can take it to MeTa like a human being instead of a bigoted troll. Thanks for the actual autopsy report link, ltl.

By: dhoyt

dhoyt — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:58:50 -0800

oh, I also liked how you immediately called out dios on the "homo" slur. Just as I enjoyed how you showed your objectivity by cowering in the corner while everyone else was pointing out what a steaming shitpile this thread is, which you know deep down. I understand: you didn't want to insult your shopping & gossip buddy, airheaded as he may be. When I'm in Milan, can we go for an espresso so you'll stand up for me in threads? who in this thread has been trying to argue against the I-told-you-so's? Wasn't me. dhoyt? Nope. The chick should've been euthanized years ago. *shrugs* Guess the topic being what is is: Politics-Lite — precisely the kind of mainstream grotesque divisive garbage amberglow traffics in — it has never urged me before now to care enough to type my opinion. I'm just amused by the phony high-road so many of you take when dealing with information like the Schiavo case. Amberglow, et al, you think you're any better for politicizing Schiavo's case and smearing it all over the blog world? Please. You're just as obnoxious as the "pro-lifers".

By: jmgorman

jmgorman — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:01:29 -0800

matteo, I thought you were portugese not italian. Hmmm.

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:02:12 -0800

Mind, I figure the thread saves the post by demonstrating with clarity the dangers of faith over science. Even in a relatively intelligent and rational environment such as we have on MeFi, we still have a few deluded lunatics who continue to protest that faith should trump science. Madness, that. If the stupidity of "but we didn't know for sure!" is common, then we must be utterly vigilant in protecting our government and our judiciary from the destructive force of religion. Schiavo should have been a cut-and-dried case, and the fact the religionists got as far as they did is a scary prospect for the future.

By: dhoyt

dhoyt — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:02:37 -0800

Oh, and: when did dios make a homo "slur"?

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:08:24 -0800

Witty did, not dios. Meta

By: AlexReynolds

AlexReynolds — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:10:35 -0800

Why are you putting slur in scare quotes, dhoyt?

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:10:58 -0800

Wait, wait, I have a grudge against someone! Can I just yell it out here? That's what this is for, right? Could we at least get Jonmc in here to tell us about how great Uriah Heap was?

By: Snyder

Snyder — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:20:33 -0800

Take my love Take my land Take me where I cannot stand I don't care I'm still free You can't take the sky from me Take me out To the black Tell 'em I ain't coming back Burn the land and boil the sea You can't take the sky from me There's no place I can be since I found Serenity You can't take the sky from me

By: thedevildancedlightly

thedevildancedlightly — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:24:14 -0800

I figure the thread saves the post by demonstrating with clarity the dangers of faith over science. Even in a relatively intelligent and rational environment such as we have on MeFi, we still have a few deluded lunatics who continue to protest that faith should trump science Who, exactly, made that claim, in what post? I think you and I might be reading different threads. I just saw a lot of "me too" and then a derail about AlexReynolds.

By: Smedleyman

Smedleyman — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:26:31 -0800

Metafilter: find stuff that's of interest and to learn more about the world, because you'd rather be working maybe? Metafilter: Your most favoritest homo Metafilter: With new added "no dagos" (I'm Italian) It's just talk. Unless your stated purpose to disrupt. Don't see that here. Schiavo on the other hand....

By: shmegegge

shmegegge — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:29:19 -0800

you know, I'm a liberal who would have loved to see some decent discussion of just precisely this issue on MeFi, but I was going to callout this post for shameless editorializing before I saw that it already had 100+ comments in thread. If i thought I could avoid the tar and feathering of "you called out a post that has 100+ comments in it?! wtf?!" I'd still do it. So I'm going to go ahead and say that this fpp was doomed from the start. way to go, amberglow. What's funny is that I remember the thread about blue-fingered voting iraqis getting called out for much the same reason, as well as abu ghraib threads. oh well.

By: Citizen Premier

Citizen Premier — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:39:44 -0800

If a human is in a vegatative state, then how can we say that she's suffering? If she can't feel anything, there's nothing wrong with her being a houseplant, save the waste of materials and money. You can't say she can't feel anything and then say she's suffering. In case you ask, I'm pro-euthenasia for her, but only because she's a waste of money, that could and should be used on other patients.

By: clevershark

clevershark — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:45:20 -0800

In related news Bill Frist told reporters that, having seen only a photo of the report's cover, he disagreed with the conclusions.

By: dirtynumbangelboy

dirtynumbangelboy — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:48:04 -0800

Clevershark wins.

By: fenriq

fenriq — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:53:57 -0800

Citizen Premier, I think the best way to approach your question is what would the lucid Terri have wanted for the vegetative Terri? Would she have wanted to stay alive even with a dead brain and slowly, slowly die? Or would she have preferred to die with a wee bit of dignity and no asshole politicians standing on her back trying to distract investigations into their own misdeeds? I would imagine that she would have chosen some dignity and not being a tool for tools like Tom DeLay. That's the suffering part as I see it. The only good that's come out of this, in addition to it being over, is that asshats like DeLay, Frist, Jeb Bush and the others look like the shitheels they are.

By: Civil_Disobedient

Civil_Disobedient — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:57:23 -0800

Good one from the appropriately named clevershark.

By: Civil_Disobedient

Civil_Disobedient — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:06:35 -0800

My apologies, but this was too funny...

By: strangeleftydoublethink

strangeleftydoublethink — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:07:22 -0800

Would someone please call me a name? I'm short if that will help you. Please!

By: Snyder

Snyder — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:19:23 -0800

strangeleftydoublethink? More like strangeshortydoublethink!

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:23:12 -0800

Interesting, from page 29-34 of the pdf: Back in 1990, 911 was called at 5:40am, but the paramedics didn't establish measurable blood pressure until 6:46. And they can't prove that she was bulimic. And claims from caregivers of past oral feedings are remarkable, and, based on the autopsy findings and medical records, these feedings were potentially harmful, or, at least extremely dangerous to Mrs. Schiavo's health and welfare.

By: Stauf

Stauf — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:38:55 -0800

Would someone please call me a name? I'm short if that will help you. Please! posted by strangeleftydoublethink at 4:07 PM PST on June 15 strangeshortydoubleshort whose mom is short and his dad also and his sister looks tall but she's not she's really short and their clothes that are all short shorty shorty short.... I'm not very good at this...

By: ORthey

ORthey — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:41:40 -0800

Jesus Christ. Over 100 comments, and you know what? I've been thoroughly entertained. There was a discussion. Opinions were voiced. Sides were taken. Jokes were made. How is this a bad FPP? Because it's on CNN.com? Am I wrong, or is a large part of the reason we all participate in MetaFilter that we enjoy a relatively smart and witty community with which to discuss things? I am relatively new here but I'm starting to recognize more names and styles, and it's quite enjoyable. I, for one, am interested in what people think about this case and the myriad things it represents, and the Blue is a place I often find interesting discussion. We're not Yahoo discussions, we're metafilter, and we like "talking" with each other. Arguing, agreeing, disagreeing. I come here to read what y'all think about cool websites, and what's going on in the world. All these snarky comments about lousy posts take up space and are fairly useless.

By: ericb

ericb — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:53:37 -0800

Civil_Disobedient - I feel bad for laughing!

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:12:21 -0800

well said, ORthey. So...what do you think? and don't forget to check out the pdf ltl posted. (i had no idea before about why she collapsed originally, and kinda still don't, but at least now we know it wasn't bulimia, as the media had reported)

By: boo_radley

boo_radley — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:20:52 -0800

strangerightydoublethink. Who's for getting sloppy on gin?

By: surferboy

surferboy — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:17:23 -0800

I agree, if amberglow wouldn't have posted this front page cnn/foxnews/nytimes article how in the world would we have found out? by justgary This guy is the worst kind of troll. He's an asshole but doesn't realize it. Gary, clue: read my last sentence. No- really read it.

By: caddis

caddis — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:25:35 -0800

After all the crap in this thread, I still think amberglow was right. The autopsy showed that there never was hope, which all the doctors except one hack thought all along. The people who used Terri's predicament to push their definition of life should be ashamed. They have been shown up for what they are by this autopsy. I nevertheless stand by my earlier comment that in this there are no winners. This thread played out about as well as the whole fight over Terri; there were no winners.

By: docpops

docpops — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:47:49 -0800

I'm a winner.

By: caddis

caddis — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:52:38 -0800

Plus, you are good enough, you are smart enough, and doggone it, people like you. - another daily affirmation

By: Popular Ethics

Popular Ethics — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 19:18:38 -0800

All these snarky comments about lousy posts take up space and are fairly useless. Orthey: It's the ad-hominems. Oh the brain hurting ad-hominems. That said, strangeleftydoublethink is a vegetable face.

By: wheat

wheat — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 19:20:05 -0800

thedevildancedlightly: We know this NOW, [. . .] C'mon, are you conceding a point to the enemy just because of sound medical evidence? You're really losing your touch. You should just join in with the Schiavo's parents and start a smear campaign against the medical examiners. I'd go as far as to say that this result is completely irrelevant to the debate that was going on [. . . ] I guess it depend upon what your definition of "is" is. Let's see: 1. Parents disrespect their daughter's (and her husband's) wishes that she be put out of her misery. Check. 2. Parents claim life should be continued based on hope and quack doctor's assurances that daughter can be rehabilitated. Check. 3. Parents accuse husband of beating his wife and attempting to gain from her life insurance. Check. 4. Every right-wing politician in the country trys to advance his/her cause by hitching pony to faith at the expense of the rule of law and the evidence of science. Check. 5. Autopsy reveals that parents were deluded and politicians were full of shit. Check. Looks pretty damned relevant to me.

By: grapefruitmoon

grapefruitmoon — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 21:57:15 -0800

Having read this thread, I am left with one question. Terri Schiavo was... gay? WHUT? I am trying to reconcile the gay epithets being thrown about with the topic at hand, and I've got nothing.

By: strangeleftydoublethink

strangeleftydoublethink — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 22:03:47 -0800

Thanks to all for the name calling. I feel like an integral part of this thread now, whatever it is about. For the record, I'm 5'5" and I don't have a sister.

By: soyjoy

soyjoy — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 22:55:19 -0800

Integral part of the thread? More like strangesisterlessdoublethink! (Sorry, I just got here. Traffic was a bitch. And so was your - oh, wait. Damn._

By: gsb

gsb — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 23:06:15 -0800

Civil_Disobedient, you are a threadsaver.

By: Samizdata

Samizdata — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 23:12:27 -0800

Ooooooh, gin. Lovely....

By: melissa may

melissa may — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 23:20:19 -0800

Dr. Frist has moved on to bigger and better things: trying to deny parents of autism-stricken children the right to sue the pharmaceutical companies who poisoned them. (Salon link: worth the daypass, and whatever reserves of outrage you have left.)

By: TwelveTwo

TwelveTwo — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 00:42:32 -0800

Donutcare.

By: Haruspex

Haruspex — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 03:07:39 -0800

Terri Schiavo was... gay? grapefruitmoon has revealed the solution. The lead section of newly drafted living wills should have the appended phrase: "...and because I'm gay." Certainly Bush would never have heroically emerged from Crawford to save a god-forsaken comatose homosexual; nor would DeLay have transformed his rhetoric into that off a present-day John Brown for such an abhorrent vegetable. As for the rest of us: "I love my now-allowed-to-die gay spouse!"

By: bevets

bevets — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 05:41:42 -0800

Terri did not die from an atrophied brain. She died from an atrophy of compassion on the part of her estranged husband and those who helped him to have her deliberately killed. ~ Frank Pavone

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 05:47:20 -0800

Aww, Bevets, you do care! She actually died of dehydration. That's when the body doesn't have enough water, Bevets. Death caused by atrophy of compassion is exceedingly rare, and most commonly found in fairies that aren't clapped for.

By: MrMoonPie

MrMoonPie — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 05:58:43 -0800

*clap clap clap clap*

By: amberglow

amberglow — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 06:01:16 -0800

Haruspex: you're so right.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 06:05:13 -0800

NYT today: The autopsy results released yesterday should embarrass all the opportunistic politicians and agenda-driven agitators who meddled in Terri Schiavo's right-to-die case. There is no evidence that Ms. Schiavo's husband did any of the awful things attributed to him, and no hope that her greatly damaged brain would ever have recovered. The courts were right to conclude that she should be allowed to die after 15 years in what her doctors described as a persistent vegetative state with no hope of recovery. ...

By: nofundy

nofundy — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 06:24:47 -0800

To have shame, one must first have a conscience. posted by Floach at 3:27 PM EST on June 15 That needed repeating. Amberglow, et al, you think you're any better for politicizing Schiavo's case and smearing it all over the blog world? Wait a minute! Wasn't it the GOP Congress and the GOP Prez and the GOP Florida Governor who did the politicizing? Or does Amberglow wear many faces? I say Jeb wanted to save another typically potential GOP voter then dhoyt. Frist the cat killer says Schiavo reacts to visual stimuli and MUST be sentient while the REAL doctors say she's been blind and vegetative for years. Unbelievable what Frist will do and say to kiss the right wing extremist Mullah Dobson's ass! And this from the Senate Majority Leader, not some nutjob on the radio like Rush. Pitiful.

By: acrobat

acrobat — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 06:40:44 -0800

The subject was discussed extensively here while it was going on. Amberglow, with his link, was concluding. That's how I see his post. Everything else is just bitching. And, yes, Witless: piss off, stupid!

By: bevets

bevets — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 06:51:50 -0800

Terri did not die from an atrophied brain. She died from an atrophy of compassion on the part of her estranged husband and those who helped him to have her deliberately killed. ~ Frank Pavone klangklangston She actually died of dehydration. "I shot him. Bullets and the fall killed him."

By: AspectRatio

AspectRatio — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 08:23:33 -0800

I have lost faith in the ability of a thin, yet overrepresented majority of our society to form rational, reasoned opinions based upon the facts of a case. It's the Internet Age, Baby! You don't need reason! (bah!) Facts!? HAHA! Opinions!! Yes!! Opinions make the world go round. Opinions sell the products! Opinions let the devildancedwhateverhisnameis and the other right-wing cyberfighters to keep America on track through MetaBitter! But that's just my opinion...

By: Slithy_Tove

Slithy_Tove — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 08:26:54 -0800

Dr. Frist has moved on to bigger and better things: trying to deny parents of autism-stricken children the right to sue the pharmaceutical companies who poisoned them. Left : Thimerosal/autism :: Right : creationism

By: kirkaracha

kirkaracha — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 09:02:12 -0800

Just this morning:

Frist, R-Tenn., said he never made his own diagnosis but did argue there wasn't enough information about Schiavo's condition to justify allowing her husband to remove her feeding tube against her parents' wishes. "I raised the question, 'Is she in a persistent vegetative state or not?' I never made the diagnosis, never said that she was not. I did say that certain tests should be performed to determine that before starving her to death," Frist said in the interview.

By: slf

slf — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 10:19:04 -0800

Yay. Shall we go pull the plug on all those poor suffering brain dead patients now? They have no hope of recovery after all. Think of how much medical bills the country will save!

By: iamck

iamck — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 10:35:04 -0800

terri speaks (self link, bad taste)

By: terrapin

terrapin — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 10:37:30 -0800

slf writes "all those poor suffering brain dead patients now? They have no hope of recovery after all." Yes, because this autopsy was conducted on "all those poor suffering brain dead" people and not just on one single person. Maroon. I will avoid speculating what slf stands for because I think I have a pretty good idea.

By: iron chef morimoto

iron chef morimoto — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 10:48:47 -0800

bevets, did you just quote Collateral? Did you actually watch an R-rated movie, or just read about it on CapAlert?

By: grouse

grouse — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 10:54:21 -0800

NYT:

Representative Mike Pence, Republican of Indiana, said that in his five years in office, he saw Congress do its "worst job communicating" during the Schiavo episode.

Au contraire, their true colors were shining through.

By: iamck

iamck — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:17:15 -0800

Bevets has a website? The Onion has competition.

By: Smedleyman

Smedleyman — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:28:02 -0800

"If a human is in a vegatative state, then how can we say that she's suffering? " I'd add to fenriq's comment only a quote from the Roman poet Terence: 'I am a man, and whatever concerns humanity is of interest to me.' Whether Schiavo is truly in actual pain is not the largest issue. She is human and the damage done to her humanity in the name of political interest causes damage to us all. That is suffering.

By: fenriq

fenriq — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:31:07 -0800

Bevets, wow, lots of random quotes all completely out of context. I'm convinced! Let's dig her carcass up and hook it back up to the machines. Sure, she's a little ripe now but if we love her enough, it'll be okay.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 12:43:49 -0800

some factchecking since the Washington Post didn't do it, on Frist lying about what he said in March.-- Majority Leader Bill Frist this morning on the Today Show: LAUER: But when you stood on the floor and you said, She does respond, are you at all worried that you led some senators… FRIST: I never said, She responded. I said I reviewed the court videotapes – the same ones the other doctors reviewed – and I questioned, Is her diagnosis correct? Frist on Senate Floor, 3/17/05: I have looked at the video footage. Based on the footage provided to me, which was part of the facts of the case, she does respond. More from Frist, 3/17/05: She certainly seems to respond to visual stimuli…

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:14:28 -0800

Bevets: If God wanted her to live, why didn't he save her?

By: ericb

ericb — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:32:51 -0800

If God wanted her to live, why didn't he save her? After all, God can work miracles!

By: mikeh

mikeh — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:34:04 -0800

To me, this is NewsFilter, but of the necessary variety. The original thread(s) is/are gone, but due to recent events, there is the possibility for civil discussion. It's worth talking about, since this is a follow-up to what was a largely-debated topic in the US with occasional reasonable discussion on MeFi. There's a lot of backpedaling from all sides at this point in regard to the Schaivo case, and I think there's room to evaluate it without a lot of finger pointing and calls of hypocrisy. How so many politicians and otherwise reasonable people could drop much of their rationality to concentrate so much attention on a case that (in my opinion) could have been easily decided by the courts of Florida is something I've been wondering for quite some time. It was polarizing to see which perspective was readily adopted by those debating the issue -- the parents, the husband, the patient, or in some bizarre cases, God. I've enjoyed some contributions to other threads from Alex, Witty, and dios. I've enjoyed very little from any of them in this thread. shmegegge may be right -- this thread was doomed from the start. Not because it's not worthy of discussion, but because even those in congress could stay on-point, and today I realize that MeFi's rhetoric on this issue is no better.

By: ericb

ericb — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:36:55 -0800

"I think it will be seen at some point as a turning point in America about what's going on with the Republican Party - namely that you have this fanatical party willing to impose its own views on people, and frankly, powerful enough to do it," said Representative Barney Frank, Democrat of Massachusetts, who was among the most vocal critics of the Schiavo bill. "This is particularly a problem for Dr. Frist. This is a direct refutation of his TV diagnosis." [New York Times | June 16, 2005]

By: ericb

ericb — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:38:13 -0800

mikeh - well said!

By: ericb

ericb — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:39:49 -0800

In related news: Brain-dead woman kept alive for baby Cancer patient on respirator for survival of 21-week-old fetus . [The Associated Press | June 16, 2005].

By: amberglow

amberglow — Sat, 18 Jun 2005 07:45:52 -0800

NYT on Jeb's new investigation of the husband: ...And so it was heartbreaking yesterday to see Gov. Jeb Bush of Florida thrust himself back into this tragedy just two days after the results of Ms. Schiavo's autopsy showed that her condition had been beyond hope and beyond therapy, that she most likely had been in a persistent vegetative state and that her relatives' allegations that she had been abused by her husband were false. ... For most of the nation, that news provided closure on a wrenching episode. But not for Mr. Bush, who asked a state prosecutor to investigate Michael Schiavo, Ms. Schiavo's husband. ... To seek an investigation now seems tactical, an attempt to deflect attention from the autopsy report. Of all the politicians who tragically failed to understand and respect the sanctity and privacy of family life in this case, only Mr. Bush seems determined to save face by disturbing the family's peace further and berating those who had been saying all along that he was going down a terrible road. ...

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Sat, 18 Jun 2005 10:08:05 -0800

Oh good christ. Someone needs to put the Bush family out of America's misery.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Sat, 18 Jun 2005 13:09:47 -0800

Where's The Apology? (E.J.Dionne/WaPo)-- We are entitled to our moral, ethical and philosophical commitments. We are not entitled to our own facts. So why is this basic rule of argument often ignored by politicians whose certainty about their righteousness convinces them that they can say absolutely anything to further their causes? The autopsy in the Terri Schiavo case provides a rare moment of political accountability. We should not "move on," as Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist suggested. No, we cannot move on until those politicians who felt entitled to make up facts and toss around unwarranted conclusions about Schiavo's condition take responsibility for what they said -- and apologize. ...

By: CunningLinguist

CunningLinguist — Sun, 19 Jun 2005 07:07:04 -0800

Joan Didion on Terri Schiavo

By: amberglow

amberglow — Sun, 19 Jun 2005 08:26:35 -0800

Highbrow Hentoff: Didion, Schiavo, and bulimia (Majikthise)

By: amberglow

amberglow — Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:35:09 -0800

... Michael Schiavo -- who said he promised his wife he would not keep her alive artificially -- also listed Feb. 25, 1990, as the date his wife "Departed this Earth." On that date, Schiavo collapsed and fell into what most doctors said was an irreversible vegetative state. Schiavo actually died March 31, nearly two weeks after her feeding tube was removed by court order. The grave marker lists that date as when Schiavo was "at peace."...

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:31:31 -0800

Can we declare a moratorium on Schiavo news now? The lady is long dead and now buried. The asshats are going to continue to pester the husband, but that's neither here nor there. Just remember who did what once election time rolls around again, and punish those asshole politicians that were involved in the clusterfuck.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:34:05 -0800

...once election time rolls around again, and punish those asshole politicians that were involved in the clusterfuck. speaking of that, guess who's throwing his hat in the ring?