jump on the team and come in for the big win

June 17, 2005 5:37 AM

Raped, Kidnapped and Silenced. "Indeed, on Friday, just as all this was happening, President Bush received Pakistan's foreign minister in the White House and praised President Musharraf's "bold leadership."" [an update to a previous MeFi thread]
posted by gsb (24 comments total)

american allies don't have to be moral, or upright, or even worth a damn. just as long as they do what we say.

thats why france and germany suck, true they don't have the human rights offences of many of our allies. but they don't jump when we say jump , so fuck 'em.

ok now i have to go to work and earn my keep.
posted by nola at 5:49 AM on June 17, 2005

Wow! And here I thought that women in muslim countries generally had it pretty good. I'll be sure to add this to my list of things to be outraged against. No doubt the leaders of Pakistan will feel my righteous indignation and clean up their act. If they don't, my Amnest International group will write fierce letters. Yes we will!:

Dear President Musharraf,

Please stop oppressing Mukhtaran Bibi or I won't like you anymore.

Sincerely,
Outraged in Boston

Of course this awful. But does discussion of each individual example of man's inhumanity do anything except foster more meaningless discussion and make us each a little more depressed? We can't even affect the big picture, but at least that's a clear target.
posted by Mayor Curley at 5:50 AM on June 17, 2005

Mayor Curley writes "Of course this awful. But does discussion of each individual example of man's inhumanity do anything "

Metafilter has been interested in this particular case, as linked in the FPP.
posted by asok at 5:54 AM on June 17, 2005

But does discussion of each individual example of man's inhumanity do anything except foster more meaningless discussion and make us each a little more depressed?

I don't know, and yes.
posted by The Dryyyyy Cracker at 5:55 AM on June 17, 2005

Mukhtaran is not currently in custody and (probably) was not earlier kept in custody. She was, however, placed under a travel ban that has now been lifted. However, her passport has (reportedly) not been returned to her.

I recommend the blog of the excellent journalist Laura Rozen and those loosely connected with her as very good sources of current foreign events/policy matters.

A good progressive US foreign policy blog is Democracy Arsenal.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 5:55 AM on June 17, 2005

That's a bold vision of a new reality, MC. I mean, why be depressed? I'd rather play X-box.

Why don't you go do that, now? The grownups are going to talk.
posted by dreamsign at 5:57 AM on June 17, 2005

Why don't you go do that, now? The grownups are going to talk.

Are you going to talk about your plans to stage a commando raid and bring this woman (and one-by-one every Pakistani woman) to freedom? Or are you the absolute ruler of Pakistan or a big American corporation that can dictate foreign policy? Or did you accidentally type "talk" when you meant "masturbate"?
posted by Mayor Curley at 6:08 AM on June 17, 2005

Then Ms. Mukhtaran, who believed that the best way to overcome such abuses was through better education, used her compensation money to start two schools in her village, one for boys and the other for girls. She went out of her way to enroll the children of her attackers in the schools, showing that she bore no grudges.

Wow, what a great woman. And to answer Curley about the use of outrage: A little pressure from the U.S. could go a long ways towards helping brave Pakistanis such as Mukhtaran to reform their own society.
posted by LarryC at 6:36 AM on June 17, 2005

What Larry said.

From the article:

This is all because they think they have the support of the U.S. and can get away with murder," Ms. Jahangir said.

So, Mr. Bush, how about asking Mr. Musharraf to focus on finding Osama, instead of kidnapping rape victims who speak out? And invite Ms. Mukhtaran to the Oval Office - to show that Americans stand not only with generals who seize power, but also with ordinary people of extraordinary courage.

Granted, Pakistan's house is its own to clean up, "ally" or not.
posted by dhoyt at 6:56 AM on June 17, 2005

A little pressure from the U.S. could go a long ways towards helping brave Pakistanis such as Mukhtaran to reform their own society.

I agree. But I bet you an ice cream that said pressure is not forthcoming.
posted by Mayor Curley at 7:02 AM on June 17, 2005

Are you going to talk about your plans to stage a commando raid and bring this woman (and one-by-one every Pakistani woman) to freedom? Or are you the absolute ruler of Pakistan or a big American corporation that can dictate foreign policy?

One could perhaps support Amnesty's Campaign and/or write letters to your local Pakistani diplomats, your own elected officials, the tooth fairy, etc.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 7:31 AM on June 17, 2005

Mayor Curley: I agree that it's a long shot, but awareness of these situations increases the odds that pressure could come to bear.

Unfortunately, I think I'd want about 200:1 odds on that ice cream, to make it a fair bet.
posted by mosch at 7:34 AM on June 17, 2005

"So, Mr. Bush, how about asking Mr. Musharraf to focus on finding Osama"

No fucking shit. Has anyone even heard the "liberal" media, the Democrats or anyone for that matter, asking the question, "where is Osama", "what's being done to find him"? I'm sorry for the derail but it's nauseating that the Democrats have relegated themselves to the, "I know you are but what am I" party.
posted by j.p. Hung at 7:41 AM on June 17, 2005

Has anyone even heard the "liberal" media, the Democrats or anyone for that matter, asking the question, just what the hell is going on?
posted by magullo at 7:56 AM on June 17, 2005

"Are you going to talk about your plans to stage a commando raid and bring this woman (and one-by-one every Pakistani woman) to freedom? "
I'd risk my life for this particular woman, Mayor Curley. That kind of integrity is worth serving. If you have the funds I know the guys.

Of course, it'd probably be better not to start a war with a nuclear power. But I don't think your entirely clear on all of what Amnesty Intl. does.
posted by Smedleyman at 9:27 AM on June 17, 2005

I'd risk my life for this particular woman, Mayor Curley ... If you have the funds I know the guys.

Mmm It's a pity you're so poor, unlike that Bruce Wayne guy. We should call him in on this.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 9:44 AM on June 17, 2005

But does discussion of each individual example of man's inhumanity do anything except foster more meaningless discussion and make us each a little more depressed?

Better to at least discuss it than not. We can't fix what we don't know about. And while doing nothing but talk about it doesn't help the situation in question, who knows what random discussion might inspire someone to actually go help...
posted by Fozzie at 9:49 AM on June 17, 2005

"unlike that Bruce Wayne guy"

Or Tony Stark.
posted by Smedleyman at 10:21 AM on June 17, 2005

He's a drinker, though.
posted by dhoyt at 11:00 AM on June 17, 2005

At times like this, I miss the bold, certain leadership of Ronald Reagan.

I mean, sure he had repulsive despots over to the White House, but he would express disapproval by posing for photographs with them and frowning sternly
posted by barjo at 11:25 AM on June 17, 2005

Jeez. Only in America Pakistan.
posted by pmbuko at 11:54 AM on June 17, 2005

barjo, excellent.
posted by BrotherCaine at 12:21 PM on June 17, 2005

barjo : And I bet the handshakes were a bit firmer than were strictly necessary, too. Ronald Reagan didn't fuck around when it came to dealing firmly with despots :)
posted by kaemaril at 4:12 PM on June 17, 2005

A little pressure from the U.S. could go a long ways towards helping brave Pakistanis such as Mukhtaran to reform their own society.

I agree. But I bet you an ice cream that said pressure is not forthcoming.

Do you know how much effort has gone into pressuring my government (Canada) to insist on human rights agendas in their trade deals with China? Our government is becoming increasingly pro-trade-at-any-cost ("smart regulation" for the environment, drop human rights criticisms in trade talks, etc, etc, etc). But every step of the way, a concerned citizenry is voicing complaints and getting it on the agenda... at least some of the time.

You really think "the pressure" comes from the government? Government doesn't do anything but what comes easiest -- and most profitable -- unless it means they lose enough of their approval rating. And then they're just oh-so-happy to do the right thing.

You'll find me pretty polite to all kinds of perspectives here, but I have no sympathy for someone who wants to claim that nothing can be done, and then demonstrates it by doing nothing. Well no kidding. Hey look, I can't get a job. See? I lie on this couch and no one gives me one.

Who's the one jerking off?
posted by dreamsign at 10:28 PM on June 17, 2005