Comments on: jump on the team and come in for the big win

jump on the team and come in for the big win

gsb — Fri, 17 Jun 2005 05:37:05 -0800

Raped, Kidnapped and Silenced. "Indeed, on Friday, just as all this was happening, President Bush received Pakistan's foreign minister in the White House and praised President Musharraf's "bold leadership."" [an update to a previous MeFi thread]

By: nola

nola — Fri, 17 Jun 2005 05:49:25 -0800

american allies don't have to be moral, or upright, or even worth a damn. just as long as they do what we say. thats why france and germany suck, true they don't have the human rights offences of many of our allies. but they don't jump when we say jump , so fuck 'em. ok now i have to go to work and earn my keep.

By: Mayor Curley

Mayor Curley — Fri, 17 Jun 2005 05:50:56 -0800

Wow! And here I thought that women in muslim countries generally had it pretty good. I'll be sure to add this to my list of things to be outraged against. No doubt the leaders of Pakistan will feel my righteous indignation and clean up their act. If they don't, my Amnest International group will write fierce letters. Yes we will!: Dear President Musharraf, Please stop oppressing Mukhtaran Bibi or I won't like you anymore. Sincerely, Outraged in Boston Of course this awful. But does discussion of each individual example of man's inhumanity do anything except foster more meaningless discussion and make us each a little more depressed? We can't even affect the big picture, but at least that's a clear target.

By: asok

asok — Fri, 17 Jun 2005 05:54:44 -0800

Mayor Curley writes "Of course this awful. But does discussion of each individual example of man's inhumanity do anything " Metafilter has been interested in this particular case, as linked in the FPP.

By: The Dryyyyy Cracker

The Dryyyyy Cracker — Fri, 17 Jun 2005 05:55:27 -0800

But does discussion of each individual example of man's inhumanity do anything except foster more meaningless discussion and make us each a little more depressed? I don't know, and yes.

By: Ethereal Bligh

Ethereal Bligh — Fri, 17 Jun 2005 05:55:54 -0800

Mukhtaran is not currently in custody and (probably) was not earlier kept in custody. She was, however, placed under a travel ban that has now been lifted. However, her passport has (reportedly) not been returned to her. I recommend the blog of the excellent journalist Laura Rozen and those loosely connected with her as very good sources of current foreign events/policy matters. A good progressive US foreign policy blog is Democracy Arsenal.

By: dreamsign

dreamsign — Fri, 17 Jun 2005 05:57:09 -0800

That's a bold vision of a new reality, MC. I mean, why be depressed? I'd rather play X-box. Why don't you go do that, now? The grownups are going to talk.

By: Mayor Curley

Mayor Curley — Fri, 17 Jun 2005 06:08:32 -0800

Why don't you go do that, now? The grownups are going to talk. Are you going to talk about your plans to stage a commando raid and bring this woman (and one-by-one every Pakistani woman) to freedom? Or are you the absolute ruler of Pakistan or a big American corporation that can dictate foreign policy? Or did you accidentally type "talk" when you meant "masturbate"?

By: LarryC

LarryC — Fri, 17 Jun 2005 06:36:51 -0800

Then Ms. Mukhtaran, who believed that the best way to overcome such abuses was through better education, used her compensation money to start two schools in her village, one for boys and the other for girls. She went out of her way to enroll the children of her attackers in the schools, showing that she bore no grudges. Wow, what a great woman. And to answer Curley about the use of outrage: A little pressure from the U.S. could go a long ways towards helping brave Pakistanis such as Mukhtaran to reform their own society.

By: dhoyt

dhoyt — Fri, 17 Jun 2005 06:56:46 -0800

What Larry said. From the article:

This is all because they think they have the support of the U.S. and can get away with murder," Ms. Jahangir said. So, Mr. Bush, how about asking Mr. Musharraf to focus on finding Osama, instead of kidnapping rape victims who speak out? And invite Ms. Mukhtaran to the Oval Office - to show that Americans stand not only with generals who seize power, but also with ordinary people of extraordinary courage.

Granted, Pakistan's house is its own to clean up, "ally" or not.

By: Mayor Curley

Mayor Curley — Fri, 17 Jun 2005 07:02:22 -0800

A little pressure from the U.S. could go a long ways towards helping brave Pakistanis such as Mukhtaran to reform their own society. I agree. But I bet you an ice cream that said pressure is not forthcoming.

By: the quidnunc kid

the quidnunc kid — Fri, 17 Jun 2005 07:31:04 -0800

Are you going to talk about your plans to stage a commando raid and bring this woman (and one-by-one every Pakistani woman) to freedom? Or are you the absolute ruler of Pakistan or a big American corporation that can dictate foreign policy? One could perhaps support Amnesty's Campaign and/or write letters to your local Pakistani diplomats, your own elected officials, the tooth fairy, etc.

By: mosch

mosch — Fri, 17 Jun 2005 07:34:38 -0800

Mayor Curley: I agree that it's a long shot, but awareness of these situations increases the odds that pressure could come to bear. Unfortunately, I think I'd want about 200:1 odds on that ice cream, to make it a fair bet.

By: j.p. Hung

j.p. Hung — Fri, 17 Jun 2005 07:41:30 -0800

"So, Mr. Bush, how about asking Mr. Musharraf to focus on finding Osama" No fucking shit. Has anyone even heard the "liberal" media, the Democrats or anyone for that matter, asking the question, "where is Osama", "what's being done to find him"? I'm sorry for the derail but it's nauseating that the Democrats have relegated themselves to the, "I know you are but what am I" party.

By: magullo

magullo — Fri, 17 Jun 2005 07:56:10 -0800

Has anyone even heard the "liberal" media, the Democrats or anyone for that matter, asking the question, just what the hell is going on?

By: Smedleyman

Smedleyman — Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:27:05 -0800

"Are you going to talk about your plans to stage a commando raid and bring this woman (and one-by-one every Pakistani woman) to freedom? " I'd risk my life for this particular woman, Mayor Curley. That kind of integrity is worth serving. If you have the funds I know the guys. Of course, it'd probably be better not to start a war with a nuclear power. But I don't think your entirely clear on all of what Amnesty Intl. does.

By: the quidnunc kid

the quidnunc kid — Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:44:47 -0800

I'd risk my life for this particular woman, Mayor Curley ... If you have the funds I know the guys. Mmm It's a pity you're so poor, unlike that Bruce Wayne guy. We should call him in on this.

By: Fozzie

Fozzie — Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:49:54 -0800

But does discussion of each individual example of man's inhumanity do anything except foster more meaningless discussion and make us each a little more depressed? Better to at least discuss it than not. We can't fix what we don't know about. And while doing nothing but talk about it doesn't help the situation in question, who knows what random discussion might inspire someone to actually go help...

By: Smedleyman

Smedleyman — Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:21:40 -0800

"unlike that Bruce Wayne guy" Or Tony Stark.

By: dhoyt

dhoyt — Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:00:08 -0800

He's a drinker, though.

By: barjo

barjo — Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:25:50 -0800

At times like this, I miss the bold, certain leadership of Ronald Reagan. I mean, sure he had repulsive despots over to the White House, but he would express disapproval by posing for photographs with them and frowning sternly

By: pmbuko

pmbuko — Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:54:21 -0800

Jeez. Only in ~~America~~ Pakistan.

By: BrotherCaine

BrotherCaine — Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:21:01 -0800

barjo, excellent.

By: kaemaril

kaemaril — Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:12:37 -0800

barjo : And I bet the handshakes were a bit firmer than were strictly necessary, too. Ronald Reagan didn't fuck around when it came to dealing firmly with despots :)

By: dreamsign

dreamsign — Fri, 17 Jun 2005 22:28:53 -0800

A little pressure from the U.S. could go a long ways towards helping brave Pakistanis such as Mukhtaran to reform their own society. I agree. But I bet you an ice cream that said pressure is not forthcoming. Do you know how much effort has gone into pressuring my government (Canada) to insist on human rights agendas in their trade deals with China? Our government is becoming increasingly pro-trade-at-any-cost ("smart regulation" for the environment, drop human rights criticisms in trade talks, etc, etc, etc). But every step of the way, a concerned citizenry is voicing complaints and getting it on the agenda... at least some of the time. You really think "the pressure" comes from the government? Government doesn't do anything but what comes easiest -- and most profitable -- unless it means they lose enough of their approval rating. And then they're just oh-so-happy to do the right thing. You'll find me pretty polite to all kinds of perspectives here, but I have no sympathy for someone who wants to claim that nothing can be done, and then demonstrates it by doing nothing. Well no kidding. Hey look, I can't get a job. See? I lie on this couch and no one gives me one. Who's the one jerking off?