"First, they came for...."

June 23, 2005 11:14 AM

Southern Baptist Convention targets gays "[ The SBC ] passed a resolution urging parents and churches to investigate whether their community schools promote homosexuality....It encourages Southern Baptists to “investigate diligently the curricula, textbooks and programs in our community schools and to demand discontinuation of offensive material and programs. ....It added a commendation for “godly teachers and students who feel a call from God to take a stand for Christ at secular schools to be a light shining in the darkness.” ” ( via Mainstream Baptist )
posted by troutfishing (51 comments total)

“godly teachers and students who feel a call from God to take a stand for Christ at secular schools to be a light shining in the darkness.”

Great! That makes them easier targets for things like paper wads. ;-P
posted by mischief at 11:17 AM on June 23, 2005

In other news, PETA passed a resolution urging their members to investigate whether a business is harming animals.

And in still other news, the NAACP passed a resolution urging their members to investigate whethere there is racism.

Whew! A busy news day today!
posted by dios at 11:17 AM on June 23, 2005

Do you see the difference between your two examples and the Southern Baptist one dios?
posted by drezdn at 11:29 AM on June 23, 2005

Ferchrissakes, what the fuck is wrong with these people? Of all the unholy issues facing the world today, what on earth makes them so astoundingly focused on this one?

[insert obligatory snipe about dios's asinine sniping here]
posted by five fresh fish at 11:31 AM on June 23, 2005

drezdn: no. Groups with similar views often get together and try to advance those views. When they do so, it's not particularly newsworthy. Then again, I doubt that the substance of those views is newsworthy either.
posted by dios at 11:35 AM on June 23, 2005

SBC has been on the move. Via Globe & Mail:

Southern Baptists ended an eight-year boycott of the Walt Disney Co. for violating "moral righteousness and traditional family values" in a vote yesterday on the final day of the faith's annual convention.

The Disney resolution, passed at the SBC's 1997 convention in Dallas, called for Southern Baptists to refrain from patronizing Disney theme parks and Disney products, mainly because of the entertainment company's decision to give benefits to companions of gay employees.

"We felt like it was time to end it. We're hopeful Disney will do what the resolution calls for," Mr. Mims added.

posted by highsignal at 11:39 AM on June 23, 2005

I'm with dios. This news is unsurprising and unremarkable.

Except the paper wads joke was funny.
posted by thirteenkiller at 11:39 AM on June 23, 2005

In other news...

are you suggesting that the fundamental reason for the existence of the southern baptists is to fight homosexuality?
posted by mdn at 11:43 AM on June 23, 2005

Of all the unholy issues facing the world today, what on earth makes them so astoundingly focused on this one?

They're idiots. Seriously. I have tried to look at it from their pov (and I was raised Catholic so I have some idea) and that's all I can conclude. These people are poorly educated, narrow minded, provincals who lack critical thinking facilities or imagination and who do their best to raise their kids to be every bit as dumb as they are. They have managed to improve their lifestyles over a couple of generations and they think that qualifies them to tell everyone how to live. Of course that is not a viewpoint restricted to Southern Baptists.
posted by fshgrl at 11:45 AM on June 23, 2005

Southern Christians hate gays. Well, that's just shocking.

For a group of people that claim to follow the teachings of Jesus to the letter they sure are an intolerant bunch of wankers.
posted by bshort at 11:47 AM on June 23, 2005

thirteenkiller - Let me ask you this : do you see anything wrong with attacks on gays ?

"Studies show that 84 percent of gay students are verbally harassed, 39 percent are physically harassed and that this climate of abuse seriously impacts their ability to learn. We earnestly hope that you agree that no child deserves to be harassed or abused at school -- whether or not the attack is motivated by a child's religious beliefs, race or sexual orientation.

In his high school, Brent Wimmer, a student from Sand Springs, Oklahoma, was physically beaten by classmates. They also vandalized his car with large rocks and eggs eight times in the school parking lot. What did Brent, a young man from a fundamentalist Christian family active in his local church and Fellowship of Christian Athletes, do to deserve this cruelty? He wrote an article in his school newspaper about the importance of respecting all people, including gay students, as God's children."

So - sure, no big deal if you think such viciousness is acceptable.
posted by troutfishing at 11:47 AM on June 23, 2005

What? What are they talking about? I love me teh gay.
posted by God Almighty at 11:51 AM on June 23, 2005

The irony, of course, is that God is gay.
posted by mullingitover at 11:54 AM on June 23, 2005

"Of all the unholy issues facing the world today, what on earth makes them so astoundingly focused on this one?"

Simple : The SBC was taken over by the religious supremacist right in the mid to late 1980's. That movement teaches a type of relativism in morals and ethics in the pursuit of power. The demonization of gays is merely one of a suite of sleazy methods employed towards that end.
posted by troutfishing at 11:55 AM on June 23, 2005

The "movement teaches a type of relativism in morals"?????

Did you mean to type "rejects" instead of "teaches?" Their movement is the opposite of moral relativism. They explicitly believe in absolute morality.
posted by dios at 11:58 AM on June 23, 2005

"take a stand for Christ" = Gay bashing

This country is so doomed.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:59 AM on June 23, 2005

The irony, of course, is that God is gay.

I prefer the term "festive."

Ah, hell... ::smites mullingitover::
posted by God Almighty at 12:08 PM on June 23, 2005

Considering that Southern Baptists are Southern Baptists largely because of slavery, this isn't really a surprise.

From 1900 to 1950, historians clearly identified slavery as a factor in the formation of the SBC, but some tended to obscure its impact by pointing to, sometimes even highlighting, other factors.

In the last half of the twentieth century, 1950-2000, Southern Baptist church historians have been more blunt in identifying slavery as the causative factor in the formation of the SBC.

posted by kirkaracha at 12:13 PM on June 23, 2005

Southern Baptists ended an eight-year boycott of the Walt Disney Co. for violating "moral righteousness and traditional family values" in a vote yesterday on the final day of the faith's annual convention.

Guess they got tired of their kids complaining about not being able to go to Disneyworld
posted by smcniven at 12:14 PM on June 23, 2005

Although, to be fair, it seems like their claim wasn't that they were pro-slavery, it's just that the northern Baptists were too anti-slavery.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:16 PM on June 23, 2005

No, trout said just exactly what he meant dios.

Anyone who claims to be "Christlike" and then proceeds to advocate an agenda of hatred are moral relativists no matter what they think they may be. Cluetrain?

Meanwhile the SBC announces the final payment on the GOP purchase. and find it good and pleasing to have cat-killer and Pres. Stupid representing for them.

Hey, Mr. God Almighty, could you have a little talk with this "dios" demi-god we've got down here pooping on the threads and giving all the gods a bad name by doing so?
posted by nofundy at 12:18 PM on June 23, 2005

dios - you don't get out much, do you.
posted by troutfishing at 12:20 PM on June 23, 2005

dios, you know your example is unsound.

if peta or the naacp says "pres. bush, we've passed a resolution targeting animal abuse/racism, and if you don't help us, we're not voting for you," karl rove will at best respond by making bush respond, "this administration is doing everything it can to combat animal abuse/racism." however, nothing will actually be done b/c he's thinking, "stupid commie liberals/black people don't vote for us in the first place, so fuck 'em."

if the sbc says, "pres. bush, we've passed a resolution targeting gays, and if you don't help us, we're not voting for you," karl rove responds "oh shite! we have to throw them a bone!" and some piece of legislation that tries to promote equal rights for gays will be defeated or some legislation that denies equal rights for gays will be passed.

in short, the sbc and similar conservative christian groups have the ear of the king. other groups do not. and you know this, so stop fronting.
posted by lord_wolf at 12:23 PM on June 23, 2005

drezdn: no.

Your examples are of people attempting to defend a groups' rights (if you were to believe animals have rights), whereas the Southern Baptists are attempting to limit a group's rights.

Unless if you're just trying to say it's a bad post, in which case you should flag it, and move along.
posted by drezdn at 12:25 PM on June 23, 2005

Welcome to my world (Texas). This kind of activity has been pretty mainstream for a while. My wife (a bleedin-heart liburl) makes a point of getting on the school censorship boards to provide an opposing view. Since she volunteers at the school and isn't an obvious wacko in that capacity, she has credibility and respect in the eyes of the bubble-headed Baptist blonde soccer moms that drive Hummers to carry their small children around to dance practice.

Ferchrissakes, what the fuck is wrong with these people? Of all the unholy issues facing the world today, what on earth makes them so astoundingly focused on this one?

Honestly? It's an easy issue for them to prosecute, since the people who try to subjugate gays *know* that gays will always be in the vast minority. Many other views will inevitably evolve with demographics, but gays are never going to be more than (pick your number- 10%? 15%?) of the population, so therefore they will always be in the vast minority.

Bullying at its worst.
posted by Doohickie at 12:27 PM on June 23, 2005

And Disney Gay Day thrives!
posted by ericb at 12:32 PM on June 23, 2005

Also at the conference, in case you missed it, former chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court Roy Moore "gave a short history lesson":

"There are consequences to what is happening in America today," he said. The separation of church and state, a concept that has no basis in any U.S. founding documents -- including the Constitution -- does not mean a "separation of God and government," Moore said.
posted by Otis at 12:39 PM on June 23, 2005

The Florida Baptist Witness is spinning this as SBC's desire for "parental diligence in education".
posted by highsignal at 12:44 PM on June 23, 2005

Not only God is gay, but Jesus himself was the first gay dating coach in history: "Come follow me and I will make you fishers of men." The original version also had "and then we'll have a big rave on the beach". The twelve apostles were then sent off to the four corners of the earth to gather followers, and set up their headquarters in Ibiza.

This secret was carefully kept by the Order Of The Priority of the Pacha, an esoteric sect whose symbol can be spotted in the Versace logo, and whose goal is world domination via compilations of chill out music. The Southern Baptist are on to this and are rightly concerned that lounge and techno are going to kill off country and bluegrass, so...

... the rest can be read in the upcoming bestseller by Dan Brown, The Vinny da Vinci Code.

/off to the ninth circle of hell for abuse of gay clichés
posted by funambulist at 1:00 PM on June 23, 2005

Ahem, seriously. I'm wondering what 'investigating the curricula and textbooks' means here? Creationists clearly have an easy job of spotting things they want school kids to be ignorant of, but what kind of gayness could they be wanting to remove from school texts? Any examples or precedents?
posted by funambulist at 1:07 PM on June 23, 2005

From Otis's link: "You should submit to government, that is the ordination of God, but when the government denies the God who ordained it," civil disobedience is permissible, Moore said. "There is no higher power than God. The powers that be are ordained of God."

Just reading this makes me feel physically uncomfortable. I have to squirm in my seat.
posted by PhatLobley at 1:10 PM on June 23, 2005

Quoting Darwin while wearing Hillary for President stickers, the gays began burning flags with impeccable taste.

The Southern Baptists then refused to let the world collapse, until at least Jesus returned, and fought the Satanic Pink like Dixiecrats on desegregation.

And although they were patient, the world never seemed to collapse and the ancient myths died out, one after the other. No one remembers much about the Southern Baptists, other than an occasional dirge sung in the key of D.
posted by The Jesse Helms at 1:12 PM on June 23, 2005

they're southern. they're baptist. what's new?
posted by quonsar at 1:18 PM on June 23, 2005

No, trout, of course I don't think it's acceptable to target gays. That's not what I said at all, and I think my first post had few enough words that it should have been clear. I said the news is unsurprising and unremarkable. It was not a comment on the acceptability of the SBC's actions.
posted by thirteenkiller at 1:24 PM on June 23, 2005

I'm with thirteenkiller on this one.
posted by 31d1 at 1:35 PM on June 23, 2005

"...a call for parents to remove their children from schools found to promote homosexuality through gay student clubs and other influences such as diversity and anti-bullying programs, called it an “important first step toward protecting our children.”


Yep. Diversity now that's a bad thing.
Who is bullying who?
posted by Jikido at 1:39 PM on June 23, 2005

Hey, take your kids out of my school. No really, take them. Fine by me.
posted by fshgrl at 2:08 PM on June 23, 2005

[removed fshgrl's accidental double]
posted by jessamyn at 2:12 PM on June 23, 2005

Southern Baptists are a hateful, paranoid bunch. What else is new?

Oh yeah, and if you're a Southern Baptist but not personally hateful and paranoid, take control of your fucking church.
posted by clevershark at 2:14 PM on June 23, 2005

I'm not gay. I'm only moderately liberal. I like, and vote for, my Moderate Republican Congressman -- Mikey Castle.

Still, I can't help feeling like a Jewish intellectual in Europe in the late 30's.

Taken individualy, these developments -- SBC, Flag-burning, internet censorship -- can be argued, sometimes even mocked.

But the accumulation of bad feeling is starting to worry me.
posted by mmahaffie at 3:26 PM on June 23, 2005

I agree with the SBC-- Everything "gay" should be banned from public schools. And "gay" should be defined by a 12-year-old boy with a limited vocabulary.
"Spelling is, like, so gay."
Out it goes.
posted by klangklangston at 4:46 PM on June 23, 2005

The acronym SBC, to me, refers to the local phone company, and I've done multiple double-takes reading this thread, only to re-realize that my phone company is not in fact, encouraging gay-bashing.

And I've got to like 15th my shock that anti-gay bigotry among Christians is somehow noteworthy rather than expected. Clearly, we need Bible education in our schools to rectify this shocking bit of ignorance.
posted by boaz at 5:01 PM on June 23, 2005

It encourages Southern Baptists to “investigate diligently the curricula, textbooks and programs in our community schools and to demand discontinuation of offensive material and programs.

Back when these stupid sons of bitches were in school, their teachers also encouraged them to investigate their textbooks. If they'd listened, we wouldn't be going through this shit now.

But maybe the second time around they actually learn something...
posted by c13 at 5:13 PM on June 23, 2005

Ah, boaz, you beautiful bigot. The Episcopalians risked a schism in order to ordain a sexually active gay bishop. The SBC is not all of Christianity.
posted by klangklangston at 5:16 PM on June 23, 2005

I said Bible study, not Christianity study, kk, but reading comprehension was never your strong suit.
posted by boaz at 5:23 PM on June 23, 2005

girls, girls, you're both pretty.
posted by jonmc at 5:37 PM on June 23, 2005

Thanks jon, I feel special now.

In completely unrelated news, this company I do some work for almost split in two recently because a homosexual was promoted to VP Marketing. I figure this conclusively proves what a tolerant, non-bigoted bunch of people the workers at this company are. [/metaphor]
posted by boaz at 7:36 PM on June 23, 2005

Clearly, we need Bible education in our schools to rectify this shocking bit of ignorance.

Clearly, we also need to increase the quality of literary education and critical thinking in our schools to rectify this shocking bit of ignorance and insulting line about Bible education = anti-gay.
posted by juiceCake at 8:14 PM on June 23, 2005

In the battle to be the g.g. allin of MeFi, dios wins this round.
posted by juiceCake at 8:15 PM on June 23, 2005

I can understand where the SBC is coming from. It's somewhat of an imposition to have the state teach morals instead of parents, especially if those morals differ from what is taught in the home.

But I think the farthest a *sensible* Baptist (Southern, American, Independent, whatever) would go is to ask for morality to be left out of discussions of homosexuality in public schools. I have a feeling that most of the Baptists I grew up with are in this camp. You can have an anti-bullying discussion without taking a moral stance on homosexuality.
posted by bugmuncher at 9:02 PM on June 23, 2005

"especially if those morals differ from what is taught in the home."

Well, that works fine unless the folks teaching morality at home are homophobic, racist, misogynist morons. The role of the school is to teach and teaching the simple fact that not everybody shares your faith or sexual orientation is a perfectly justifiable use of the tax dollar.

Your conflation of homosexuality with 'morality' is precisely the problem. Homosexuality has as much to do with morality as gender or race and while we are helpless to prevent parents from instilling ignorant, hostile and archaic views in their progeny, we care not helpless to prevent the spread of this poison in our public schools.
posted by cedar at 10:47 AM on June 24, 2005