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Warning to all Montrealers!
July 4, 2005 11:11 AM   Subscribe

Karla Homolka is due to be released today. For those of you who don't keep up with this story, Homolka and her husband Paul Bernardo kidnapped, raped and killed two teenaged girls in the St. Catherines (Ontario) area a few years ago, with one of the women being Homolka's own little sister. Homolka is getting away pretty lightly because of sheer stupidity on the part of the then-prosecutor. Well she's about to get out now. While the official Karla Internet Death Pool no longer exists, one does wonder how long she will last, assuming she's still planning on moving to Montreal's NDG district.
posted by clevershark (123 comments total)

 
We sorta already did this.
posted by xmutex at 11:12 AM on July 4, 2005


Besides, I'm sure lightning poses a much bigger threat to the average individual than Karla Homolka...
posted by mek at 11:15 AM on July 4, 2005


It's debatable whether or not it was stupidity on the part of the prosecutor. At the time that her plea agreement was reached, the Crown feared that there wasn't enough evidence to convict either Homolka or Bernardo. So their options were limited: either get Homolka to cop a plea to put away Bernardo forever and Homolka for a while -- or see them both out on the street.

There was evidence that later came to light which, had it been in possession of the Crown at the time of the deal, would have been enough to put them both away without a plea bargain. But hindsight is always 20/20.

I don't fault the Crown at all.
posted by solid-one-love at 11:16 AM on July 4, 2005


ohhh, the movie version stars laura prepon.

Hot.
posted by delmoi at 11:16 AM on July 4, 2005


damn north americans.
posted by nervousfritz at 11:18 AM on July 4, 2005


Also, 12 years is a long time, half the length of a lot of murder charges.

On the other hand, between her and her husband she deserves most of the blame for the death because she administered the sedative...

Did they actualy find the video? Its hard to belive people can be so stupid.
posted by delmoi at 11:19 AM on July 4, 2005


Besides, I'm sure lightning poses a much bigger threat to the average individual than Karla Homolka...

Put your money where your mouth is, mek. She can bunk with you. Or maybe you can hire her as a babysitter.
posted by jonmc at 11:21 AM on July 4, 2005


Oops... I thought it might be a good idea to bring this up because Karla's due to get out today, but I see xmutex's point.
posted by clevershark at 11:21 AM on July 4, 2005


I don't fault the Crown at all.

The police searched the house six times before being told of the presence of the videos. Bernardo's DNA sample sat in a lab for years before finally being tested against samples taken in the course of the Scarborough rapist investigation -- had the samples been tested in a timely manner, he would have been arrested before the murders of Mahaffy and French.

There's a lot of stupidity to go around on this one.
posted by docgonzo at 11:23 AM on July 4, 2005


When I say "I don't fault the Crown at all", I am referring to Crown prosecutors (re: clevershark's editorializing about 'sheer stupidity'), not the police system. The cops dropped the ball repeatedly, yes.
posted by solid-one-love at 11:27 AM on July 4, 2005


delmoi writes "Also, 12 years is a long time, half the length of a lot of murder charges. "

Yes, but if one murder is worth 25 years then it's hard to imagine that two murders -- especially ones as depraved and deliberate as these -- should be punished by a mere 8 years.

"Did they actualy find the video?"

Yes indeed. Their lawyers had the actual snuff films, which clearly show that Homolka wasn't the "innocent battered wife" she pretended to be.
posted by clevershark at 11:29 AM on July 4, 2005


a canadian was talking to me about this last week, and i have to say that here in the US we barely know of this woman. maybe it had something to do with the odd media blackout that Canada put on the case.

eitherway it will be interesting to see how our neighbors to the north welcome karla.
posted by tsarfan at 11:31 AM on July 4, 2005


One has to wonder why she'd want to stay in Montreal, or indeed anywhere in the province of Quebec. After all we have a fairly sizeable, violent biker population who'd like nothing more than to "ply their trade" at a task that would make them look like heroes for once.
posted by clevershark at 11:36 AM on July 4, 2005


Oh, and Homolka's father has denied she's thinking of moving to NDG. That never made sense, really, as if her intent of living in Montreal is to avoid notice, NDG would be her worst choice, as it is largely english-speaking and thus well briefed on her crimes. She'll likely end up in a french speaking part of the city, like the east end.
posted by docgonzo at 11:37 AM on July 4, 2005


Any suggestion that committing an act of violence upon Homolka would be heroic is abhorrent.
posted by solid-one-love at 11:39 AM on July 4, 2005


Did I miss the meeting where solid-one-love was appointed moral arbiter of the universe? Good luck with that thought-crime prevention.
posted by jonmc at 11:44 AM on July 4, 2005


FYI, they abducted, raped and killed two girls and her sister. That's three.
Her sister was a "present" to Paul Bernardo - she drugged her and handed her over to him. They didn't intentionally kill her, she aspirated her own vomit, but I'd see her locked up for life for just the sheer sociopathic/psychopathic mindset displayed by anyone who could wrap her own sister up as a rape toy for her boyfriend.
posted by Billegible at 11:45 AM on July 4, 2005


Yes, jonmc, because believing that inflicting violence on Homolka is not abhorrent, right? Please.

We live in a society governed by laws. Hoping that others will break it to harm others is just plain fucked up, no matter how you slice it -- and calling such an act heroic isn't merely fucked up, it's sociopathic. I am not the arbiter of that morality -- we live in a society that encourages (if not mandates) that morality.

You missed the meeting where they handed out consciences, yes.
posted by solid-one-love at 11:49 AM on July 4, 2005


So, you've diagnosed me as a sociopath, doctor? or since you seem to know everything, why don't I just refer to you as "Your Eminence?"

I didn't say that commiting violence against Homolka wasn't abhorrent. I retorted to your edict that to even suggest violence was abhorrent. To not feel some measure of disgust and rage at actions such as Homolka & Bernardos, even the momentary idea of wishing her dead perhaps, is to be less than human. And sometimes people express that rage and disgust is ways that you might find distasteful.

But you seem to have more anger towards a weblog commenter you've never met than a multiple murderer. Nice set of priorities you've got going there.
posted by jonmc at 11:57 AM on July 4, 2005


She can't afford NDG. Visiting family this month is going to be so weird, it will be impossible to not scan every crowd for that monster!

delmoi, she did a lot more than just administer a sedative to her baby sister, she sexually assaulted her as well, just as she brutally assaulted Kristen and Leslie. No one knows for certain whether it was Paul or Karla who delivered the final assaults, as the murders were not on film, and it really doesn't matter, they're both equally culpable.

solid-one-love, i have to disagree that it's abhorrent to hope someone kills Karla. It's perfectly well within the norm of every day human behaviour to wish harm upon those who have destroyed other lives. Following through is possibly abhorrent, but thinking it is natural. Besides, clevershark is not advocating, he's simply stating that Quebec's hell's angels might think it a good public relations opportunity. In fact Tracy and I overheard bikers talking about Karla this weekend, at a public Canada day celebration. We didn't wan tto get too close, so we didn't hear any details but we sure heard her full name being used!
posted by zarah at 11:58 AM on July 4, 2005


CBC Newsworld is saying she was released within the past hour, the reporters admitted they have no idea which vehicle she was in because vehicles have been coming and going all day today outside the prison.
posted by bobo123 at 12:04 PM on July 4, 2005


So, you've diagnosed me as a sociopath, doctor?

Did I? I described the act of referring to criminal violence against Homolka as heroic to be heroic. Have you yet made such a claim?

Or are you merely being intellectually dishonest as well as a prick?

I retorted to your edict that to even suggest violence was abhorrent.

And it is. You can feel all the rage you like -- but when you step over the line to calling a potential criminally violent act against her heroic? That's sociopathic.


But you seem to have more anger towards a weblog commenter you've never met than a multiple murderer.


She's served her time. He's very nearly breaking the law. Good to know that you have so little respect for the law. Remind me never to go into business with you, or let you near my family.

I'm not angry in the least, but thanks for your further mischaracterization.

Zarah, you have misunderstood: hoping is one thing; to suggest that it would be heroic is something else entirely.
posted by solid-one-love at 12:05 PM on July 4, 2005


solid-one-love writes "He's very nearly breaking the law."

Fuck you. What I said was that it's foolish for her to want to stay anywhere in this province because there are a lot of bikers here.

Perhaps you'd want to reevaluate your reading skills before making baseless allegations.
posted by clevershark at 12:08 PM on July 4, 2005


But you seem to have more anger towards a weblog commenter you've never met than a multiple murderer. Nice set of priorities you've got going there.

Grow the fuck up.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 12:11 PM on July 4, 2005


She's out.
posted by docgonzo at 12:17 PM on July 4, 2005


What I said was that it's foolish for her to want to stay anywhere in this province because there are a lot of bikers here.

Not even remotely have you said or implied that. You have implied very clearly that those bikers would be heroes if they attacked her. You are clearly advocating a position supporting violence against her in a public place, which sure smells illegal to me.

Keep it up; I'd be more than happy to forward your name to the RCMP.
posted by solid-one-love at 12:17 PM on July 4, 2005


After all we have a fairly sizeable, violent biker population who'd like nothing more than to "ply their trade" at a task that would make them look like heroes for once.

And the evidence you have for this baseless assumption is: ...
posted by docgonzo at 12:19 PM on July 4, 2005


And it is. You can feel all the rage you like -- but when you step over the line to calling a potential criminally violent act against her heroic? That's sociopathic.

Show me where I did that. I merely said that it's not up you Almight solid-one-love to decide what people can think or say. What's next anybody who in a moment of anger says "I wish someone would just kill Bush/Bin Laden/Fred Phelps/George Steinbrenner," is now a lawless sociopath as well?

Did I?

You accused me of "being absent from the meeting where they handed out consciences." Lack of a conscience is the definition of a sociopath. You were cute about it, but yes, you did diagnose me as a sociopath based on a few lines of text. I guess the psychological community can pack it in since you've got this magical ability.

Your blinkeredness is only surpassed by your arrogance.

Armitage Shanks: you're generally a reasonable guy, but this dosen't concern you, so kindly back off.

Keep it up; I'd be more than happy to forward your name to the RCMP.

Wow, you take your Thought Police role seriously. And since we're handing out off the cuff psychoanalyses: this thread might be of interest to you.
posted by jonmc at 12:19 PM on July 4, 2005


I merely said that it's not up you Almight solid-one-love to decide what people can think or say.

Actually, it is up to me and to all good citizens to call out our fellow citizens for speaking harmful opinions.

Wow, you take your Thought Police role seriously

Publicly encouraging violence against a legal person is a criminal act. And supporting someone who does that is an abhorrent act.

Upon further reflection: yeah, you're almost certainly a sociopath. The evidence is ample -- you support extralegal violence for vengeance, you are completely self-absorbed and highly defensive.

Nice try on the 'narcissist' thing -- given that I am supporting Homolka's right to continued peaceful existence, that kind of puts the lie to that, doesn't it? And sure seems to imply that the shoe fits you better.

No, Armitage is right: grow the fuck up.
posted by solid-one-love at 12:25 PM on July 4, 2005


Well, a white middle aged woman has a pretty good chance ove making it over the US border without any problems, so she's a fake-ID away from an America that knows nothing over her crimes.

Seriously, if I were her I'd probably leave north America as a whole, head to some eastern-european dump where no one would look at her funny.
posted by delmoi at 12:27 PM on July 4, 2005


I grew up in the St. Catharines area and was 14 years old when Kristen French was abducted and murdered. I remember the day that Leslie Mahaffy's remains were found. That was such a frightening time and place to be a teenaged girl.

The 12 years that Karla Homolka served for her part in the rapes and murders are NOT nearly enough. In my opinion, she deserves the same sentence as Bernardo.
posted by blackturtleneck at 12:27 PM on July 4, 2005


Actually, it is up to me and to all good citizens to call out our fellow citizens for speaking harmful opinions.

And you get to decide what a harmful opinion is? Guess educators and philosophers can pack it in along with the shrinks.

you support extralegal violence for vengeance


Since you seem to have difficulty with reading comprehension, I'll make it simple: read the second paragraph of this comment again.

But this magic ability to diagnose personality disorders from breif heated conversations is amazing. You should consider the circus.
posted by jonmc at 12:32 PM on July 4, 2005


The disproportionate salivating media frenzy-coverage is the sole cause of this. Violent convicts are released on a regular basis, many with less time under their belt than the general population would deem appropriate. They get a small item on page six, and if a neighbourhood rebels against placement there, maybe page three.

Why is this so much more of a deal? Because it's a cute blonde woman, and it's a sex crime.

Not to snark at CleverShark ( Christie Blatchford's endless trembling diatribes in The Glib and Stale are a much bigger sour apple in a mighty wretched bushel ) but the 800 kilograms of media time this gets is 799 kg too much.
posted by CynicalKnight at 12:33 PM on July 4, 2005


solid-one-love, Suggesting a descriptive for an act is not abhorrent, it just is what it is, a freaking suggestion. Seriously, you are misreading everything that's been said, and doing so in such a vigorous way that one has to question your motives. Just in the mood to get into a fight today, or feeling the need to show how much better you are than the rest of us, or what?

On preview, you have absolutely no right to threaten jonmc like that, and I don't think the RCMP would be pleased by some holier than thou net dweeb wasting their time, which would itself be a crime. Consider that comment flagged.
posted by zarah at 12:34 PM on July 4, 2005


Follow-up: so, how are you going to mischaracterize my position next, Jon? You've already gone off several times on me trying to control peoples' thoughts when I am merely comment on peoples' expression, not their thoughts.

Hoping that Homolka is harmed is understandable, but inappropriate. Calling such an act heroic is aberrant and abhorrent. It's much like the people who publicly support prison rape -- extralegal violent punishment that is somehow deserved by the convicted.

The sentiment against Homolka is, IMHO, even worse, because she is no longer a criminal. She has served her sentence. Is there anyone here who would consider a shower-room prison rapist heroic? No? Then how can one with a straight face describe some (rhetorical) vindictive biker gang assaulting or murdering Homolka to be heroic?

It's psychopathic, period.

Yes, 12 years wasn't enough. She has shown no remorse whatsoever. But y'know what? She isn't required to. She's only required to serve her sentence. She wasn't classified as mentally ill or as a dangerous offender. There are limits to what we can do now that she's out. But what we cannot do is to seek vengeance upon her. There is no justice in vengeance. There is no justice in supporting vengeance.
posted by solid-one-love at 12:34 PM on July 4, 2005


He's very nearly breaking the law.
Keep it up; I'd be more than happy to forward your name to the RCMP.
Actually, it is up to me and to all good citizens to call out our fellow citizens for speaking harmful opinions.

Unclench, citizen. I'm sure RCMP has better things to do than to investigate complaints from some weblog shithead. Don't bother them.
posted by c13 at 12:37 PM on July 4, 2005


Hoping that Homolka is harmed is understandable, but inappropriate.

You just basically restated my argument from this comment.

Then how can one with a straight face describe some (rhetorical) vindictive biker gang assaulting or murdering Homolka to be heroic?

It's psychopathic, period.


The biker gang comment was clevershark's, not mine, genius. You respond to criticism with accusations of sociopathy, and you're calling me defensive. Glass house, meet rock.
posted by jonmc at 12:40 PM on July 4, 2005


Seriously, you are misreading everything that's been said

I am misreading nothing. Violence against Homolka was described as heroic.

On preview, you have absolutely no right to threaten jonmc like that

I didn't. I threatened to call the cops on clevershark. Who's the one misreading?

and I don't think the RCMP would be pleased by some holier than thou net dweeb wasting their time, which would itself be a crime

Thanks for the ad hominem. Very mature. Good to know that so many people are so very angry about being called on their lust for vengeance that they attack the messenger. Gives me hope for this country. Except, of course, that you're not Canadian, so your opinion doesn't amount to shit on this issue, and your analysis of what kind of RCMP report is illegal is not merely suspect, but irrelevant.

c13: right now, the RCMP is taking all threats against Homolka very seriously, even from web shitheads like me.

I fid it very interesting that nobody but me has actually come out against committing violence against Homolka. Bravo. Golf clap. All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing, and all that.
posted by solid-one-love at 12:42 PM on July 4, 2005


Could you people stop arguing? You're distracting me from the white woman.
posted by elwoodwiles at 12:45 PM on July 4, 2005


Violence against Homolka was described as heroic.

Where exactly? People idly speculated on the possiblity. But your responses have shown that you're great at ignoring the substance of what people say to make self-congratulatory comments about yourself ("I fid it very interesting that nobody but me has actually come out against committing violence against Homolka."). Your more interested in displaying your self-proclaimed moral and intellectual superiorty than in anything constructive.
posted by jonmc at 12:48 PM on July 4, 2005


You just basically restated my argument from this comment.

We never disagreed on that point; I have only derided the use of expressing a violent act as heroic as aberrant, abhorrent or pathological. You took exception to that, and somehow took that to mean that:

i. I think that it's psychopathic to *think* such a thing and/or

ii. I think that it's psychopathic to wish her harm

When, of course, I have advocated neither position; you're simply mischaracterizing what I've written. Probably because you're not very bright.

The biker gang comment was clevershark's, not mine, genius.

Yeah, no kidding. That's what I was commenting on, genius. Why would you think otherwise, genius? Are you fucking retarded or has that TV role ended? Are you so narcissistic that you think that my every comment is directed at you?

elwood: I hear that she's single, but that she has admirers.
posted by solid-one-love at 12:48 PM on July 4, 2005


Where exactly?

"After all we have a fairly sizeable, violent biker population who'd like nothing more than to "ply their trade" at a task that would make them look like heroes for once."

Your more interested in displaying your self-proclaimed moral and intellectual superiorty than in anything constructive.

My more interested? WTF does that mean, genius?
posted by solid-one-love at 12:49 PM on July 4, 2005


Forgive me, I missed an apostrophe. That gives you permission to ignore the actual point. You are easily the most arrogant, blinkered, hubristic, holier-than-thou, santimonious person I have encountered on this board, and that's saying something.
posted by jonmc at 12:53 PM on July 4, 2005


You kids play nice, or you'll get a visit from KarlyCurls!
posted by CynicalKnight at 12:53 PM on July 4, 2005


Except, of course, that you're not Canadian, so your opinion doesn't amount to shit on this issue, and your analysis of what kind of RCMP report is illegal is not merely suspect, but irrelevant.
Of course this would also make us out of RCMP jurisdiction.

But anyway, you're so cute being the good man and a messenger and all. If you were closer, I'd give you a candy.
posted by c13 at 12:55 PM on July 4, 2005


Are you so narcissistic that you think that my every comment is directed at you?

I'm the one you specifically accused of considering violence heroic, and that you diagnosed as sociopathic. Forgive me for questioning you, your highness.
posted by jonmc at 12:56 PM on July 4, 2005


or you'll get a visit from KarlyCurls!

Are you threatening me!?
posted by c13 at 12:56 PM on July 4, 2005


Forgive me, I missed an apostrophe.

And an 'e'.

That gives you permission to ignore the actual point.

There isn't one. I'm waiting for you to make one. I suspect I'll be waiting forever.

You are easily the most arrogant, blinkered, hubristic, holier-than-thou, santimonious person I have encountered on this board, and that's saying something.

Considering how much of a tool you've been so far and how you've been constantly mischaracterizing everything I've written here, I'll take that as a compliment.

I *am* morally and intellectually superior to you. But so's the goddamned server. And to claim that I'm not being constuctive -- well, my ironymeter just hit the red and exploded. I'll send you the bill.

I'm the one you specifically accused of considering violence heroic,

No, I accused clevershark of that. I even quoted his post earlier at your request. Are you really that thick? Oh, wait, I forgot: dumber than the machine holding these words. Check.

c13 sez: Of course this would also make us out of RCMP jurisdiction.

Not clevershark, who the comment was directed at. Please do pay attention.
posted by solid-one-love at 12:58 PM on July 4, 2005


*blows kisses*
posted by jonmc at 12:59 PM on July 4, 2005


I think clevershark's initial comment about it being heroic for the Hell's Angels to off Karla Homolka is akin to fantasizing her falling down a flight of stairs, as opposed to being the one actually pushing her. And to ignore the notion of these, God forbid, negative thoughts going through the minds of people, especially the citizens of NDG, is foolish. Stop being such a drama queen.
posted by Blue Buddha at 1:02 PM on July 4, 2005


[MetaFilter] I *am* morally and intellectually superior to you.
posted by c13 at 1:03 PM on July 4, 2005


I've started getting anonymous threats by e-mail, so I've deleted my personal information from my userpage.

Predictable. Good show.
posted by solid-one-love at 1:03 PM on July 4, 2005


And to your left you'll see MetaFilter at its worst...please keep moving along, do not make eye contact....
posted by The Dryyyyy Cracker at 1:07 PM on July 4, 2005


No, I accused clevershark of that

ahem

Beneath a quoted comment of mine, your exact words: "Upon further reflection: yeah, you're almost certainly a sociopath. The evidence is ample -- you support extralegal violence for vengeance, you are completely self-absorbed and highly defensive."

Sounds like an accusation to me. You still want to stick with what you said here

I find the fact that your anger was aroused mainly by my questioning your position to proclaim moral judgement on us here was what aroused your anger more than anything clevershark said.
posted by jonmc at 1:07 PM on July 4, 2005


solid-one-love -- you are beginning to step on the edge of legally-actionable territory.
posted by clevershark at 1:08 PM on July 4, 2005


I could not care less what happens to Homolka.

If she happens to be killed, so be it: vigilantism is horrible, but I can't work up even the least concern for her well-being. If she's snuffed, it's not going to bring down our society.

Our justice system so completely failed us this time that it's almost inevitable that the problem will be addressed through uncivil means.
You're behaving like an ass, SoL.

[on preview: wait, no, you are an ass, SoL. Welcome to everyone's shitlist! Enjoy your brief stay at MetaFilter.]
posted by five fresh fish at 1:09 PM on July 4, 2005


Besides, I'm sure lightning poses a much bigger threat to the average individual than Karla Homolka...

Probably. Smog definitely does. So does being run down by a car. Or being killed on the job by faulty machinery. But hey, look at her eyes! She's evil. I propose round the clock news coverage.
posted by poweredbybeard at 1:10 PM on July 4, 2005


She wasn't classified as mentally ill

She probably would have been, if she'd allowed them to put her in therapy during those 12 years. I'm not so sure how smart it is to allow inmates to refuse treatment. You want your french immersion classes, and your sociology degree? Fine, show up once a week for some good old fashioned head shrinking, and you've got a deal. For her own sake, she would be better off had she acquiesced.

Except, of course, that you're not Canadian

Uh, yes I am. Born in Toronto, lived in Vancouver & Alberta for several years, and despite what my IP says (it says t.o. for whatever reason) I'm typing to you from Hamilton, Ontario.

I *am* morally and intellectually superior to you.

If you'd just stated that in your first comment we could have all just known to ignore you and gotten on with the actual topic, sheesh!

Calling you holier than thou is not ad hominem, it's just plain as day reality. Calling you a net dweeb doesn't count, because everyone "in the room" happens to be one. You're being very willful in your misinterpretations of people's comments, and that's sort of trollish, so I will stop adding to that noise with responses.

On preview: I've started getting anonymous threats by e-mail

From what I've observed, when that sort of thing happens it's generally not coming from your fellow mefites, and often from people who just read the site and don't belong. I wouldn't take it seriously but yah, keeping your personal info out of your profile for a short while is a good idea.
posted by zarah at 1:10 PM on July 4, 2005


Oh, come on, fff, at least he's funny.
posted by c13 at 1:12 PM on July 4, 2005


add "to be extremely telling" after the last sentence, and a question mark after the linked "here." Wouldn't want a punctuation lecture on top of everything else.

I wish to go on record that I find anonymous threats cowardly and deplorable, and I'll hapilly testify in court on a stack of bibles that what's in SoL's inbox isn't from me.
posted by jonmc at 1:12 PM on July 4, 2005


BTW, zarah, I don't know what prompted my removal from your "gaping assholes," list, but, thanks, I guess.
posted by jonmc at 1:15 PM on July 4, 2005


Uh, yes I am.

Mea culpa.

when that sort of thing happens it's generally not coming from your fellow mefites

I was under the impression that e-mail addresses were invisible to non-MeFites.

and I'll hapilly testify in court on a stack of bibles that what's in SoL's inbox isn't from me.

Wouldn't have to -- it's clear that whatever faults you have, cowardice isn't one of them.
posted by solid-one-love at 1:17 PM on July 4, 2005


what a cluster-fuck.
posted by docpops at 1:18 PM on July 4, 2005


I think it's best that I say no more in this thread at this point except that I had nothing to do with any emails that were sent. If I'm going to tell people to go f*ck themselves with regards to a post on MeFi, I do it in the forums.
posted by clevershark at 1:25 PM on July 4, 2005


I'm with you, clevershark. I've got shit to do.
posted by jonmc at 1:29 PM on July 4, 2005


Yes emails are hidden from the general public but I don't think our website urls are, so anyone could get an email addie that way.

jon, I was wrong is all, just really out of line, and caught a lot of shit for it at home actually :]
posted by zarah at 1:34 PM on July 4, 2005


In an attempt to derail, I'd totally bunk with Karla. She's a looker.

In all seriousness, I'd love to sit down with the woman and have a drink - I'm sure she has some very interesting things to say that people are too busy recoiling in horror to hear.
posted by mek at 2:06 PM on July 4, 2005


Or are you merely being intellectually dishonest as well as a prick?

He may be acting like a prick, but he most certainly did not threaten any violence, nor advocate for others to do so, nor make any claim that it would be "heroic." I believe you are mistaking clevershark's comments for jonmc's.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 2:23 PM on July 4, 2005


That would be an interesting person to talk to, mek, just to try and get an understanding of her headspace. Just so long as she didn't make the drink.
posted by dazed_one at 2:24 PM on July 4, 2005


That's the trouble with moral pissing contests. Everyone ends up covered in urine.
posted by Sparx at 2:36 PM on July 4, 2005


NOVEMBER 18 2004
A DATE WHICH WILL LIVE IN INFAMY
posted by jenovus at 2:59 PM on July 4, 2005


Also, 12 years is a long time, half the length of a lot of murder charges.


Um, nope. This is a common misconception about the law in Canada with regard to murder. Here's the reality: If you're convicted of murder in Canada (first degree or second degree), you're automatically sentenced to life imprisonment. See section 235 of the Criminal Code.


The difference between the two lies in the amount of time before the person is eligible to apply for (not necessarily receive) parole. Being on parole, however, doesn't mean you're free and clear - your parole can be revoked at any time if your parole conditions aren't met.


In any event, Homolka wasn't convicted of murder - she pled guilty to two counts of manslaughter
posted by gwenzel at 3:17 PM on July 4, 2005


her last name starts with Homo. just sayin'...
posted by quonsar at 3:21 PM on July 4, 2005


SoL

I just wanted to note that this made it look like someone had joined as Steve_on_Linnwood, some sort of horrible porno version of S@L.

I suppose I'd be ROU_Xenoprobe in the mefi porno. And we could have Ethereal_Sigh. And fishfucker. And five fresh fingers. And Space_Pussy.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:45 PM on July 4, 2005


"...and often from people who just read the site and don't belong."

The fuck??
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:58 PM on July 4, 2005


> In an attempt to derail, I'd totally bunk with Karla. She's
> a looker.

As I was reading this thread, I was wondering how Karla will earn a living now that she's out of jail, and pondering the notion that if I were Karla, I think I'd probably become a hooker.

Granted, the trade in sex with serial killers is probably a somewhat limited market, but that just means that you can charge top dollar for your action. And when you think about the numbers of women who send love notes to male serial killers and develop prison relationships with them, you've got to suppose that there'd be a much larger group of men wanting to indulge this particular fetish, while the number of objects of their desire is extremely limited.

Of course, some might think it a very risky enterprise, and you might want to steer clear of areas like breath play and bondage if you were to pursue such a transaction. In fact, even oral sex might be somewhat anxiety producing -- but perhaps that's part of the attraction?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 4:18 PM on July 4, 2005


The fuck??

You know damn well what I mean, and that I'm also trying to help him not feel paranoid about the people he's actually conversing with. But if you want to go EBatshit crazy over the comment, knock yourself out.
posted by zarah at 4:19 PM on July 4, 2005


Hmmm, I don't know. I think the law should be respected as the will of the people, and that it holds a place above the opinions of some single person such as myself, but.

Law isn't infallible, and it is somewhat tantamount to exacting retribution in the form of subjecting convicts to harmful situations. If such retribution is inherently wrong, I don't see how we can escape the notion that the law is also wrong, and if it isn't inherently wrong, it is possible that an opinion about what retribution is correct that differs from the one held by current law might be just as or more "correct" than the legal one, (so resorting to it, while not legal, and maybe not ethical purely due to the illegalness of it, (like maybe you should try to make it legal instead of breaking the law), isn't of itself unethical).

Woo does that ever not make any sense after I reread it. But there's my sad attempt to change the subject.
posted by SomeOneElse at 4:25 PM on July 4, 2005


So THAT's what happens when double-click instincts kick in on metafilter. /sorry
posted by SomeOneElse at 4:27 PM on July 4, 2005


Peter McDermott said:
As I was reading this thread, I was wondering how Karla will earn a living now that she's out of jail, and pondering the notion that if I were Karla, I think I'd probably become a hooker.

Ironically, she would be the only hooker whose murder (entirely theoretical of course) would get media attention
posted by Joybooth at 4:39 PM on July 4, 2005


If you really want to punish Homolka, don't send the bikers after her, just make her read the comments on this thread.
posted by vronsky at 4:48 PM on July 4, 2005


[removed SomeOneElse's accidental double]
posted by jessamyn at 5:16 PM on July 4, 2005


Mr. Homolka... stop eating my sesame cake.
posted by nervestaple at 5:24 PM on July 4, 2005


Metatalk.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:31 PM on July 4, 2005


Granted, the trade in sex with serial killers is probably a somewhat limited market...

Not so fast, Peter, I think you are on to something here. A way hot female serial killing prostitute is unique. There is not telling what men would pay, just for the bragging rights.

/attempting to continue the derail...
posted by LarryC at 6:22 PM on July 4, 2005


OK, watch THIS derail, folks, and SoL's absurdity will soon be forgotten.

I dare you to read the "Bad Girls Do It" Karla Homolka site [WARNING! VERY VERY NSFW] and not feel so guilty about wishing, deep in your dark heart, that something Very Bad happens to Ms. Homolka. What a monster.
posted by realcountrymusic at 7:07 PM on July 4, 2005


solid-one-love said: I don't fault the Crown at all.

Get a hold of yourself, man! You sound like a brit.
posted by Francophone at 7:36 PM on July 4, 2005


'I think it's time I talk'
-- CBC: An exclusive interview with convicted murderer Karla Homolka. With video.

"In an interview conducted less than two hours after she left prison, [Karla] Homolka told SRC, the CBC's French language service that she's nervous and anxious to be out of jail for the first time in 12 years."

"I don't want to be hunted down. I don't want people to think I am dangerous and I'm going to do something to their children."

In other news...Karla's legal staff is concurrently today in court in advance of her release to block press coverage of Karla. Lawyers acting on Homolka's behalf appeared in a Montreal court Monday to ask once more for a ban on media coverage of her whereabouts and activities.
posted by Dunvegan at 8:03 PM on July 4, 2005


So...did clevershark ever actually say that killing her would be heroic? From what I can see, the only relevant clevershark quote about heroism states that if bikers killed her it would be seen as heroic, but there isn't anything about clevershark saying it would actually be heroic. Did something get deleted, or can solid-one-love just not read?
posted by Bugbread at 8:18 PM on July 4, 2005


Ironically, she would be the only hooker whose murder (entirely theoretical of course) would get media attention

Now you've done it, encouraging murder and all. You have the moral character of a ball-point pen replacement cartridge. I'd be happy to report your name to solid-one-love.
posted by dreamsign at 8:24 PM on July 4, 2005


Wow...just watched the interview and it kind of scares me that I could have walked past her on the street on not recognized her. I'm sure once she changes her hair she'll be even harder to spot.
posted by duck at 8:41 PM on July 4, 2005


"But if you want to go EBatshit crazy over the comment, knock yourself out."

Nah, an expression of incredulousness with an implicit ridicule of your Heatherism is sufficient.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 9:06 PM on July 4, 2005


Heatherism? I'm not sure what that references, but if you need me to believe that you didn't understand my less than perfectly worded comment to s-o-l, regarding non members being the possible email culprits, no probs.

duck, are you kidding? She looks the same as she ever did, just a tad saggier. Those dead eyes, they give her away big time. She was doing pretty good until it came to what I feel was the most important question of that very weak, very staged interview. It's quite clear she's still involved with the wife-murderer who's still inside, and that's can't be a good sign of things to come
posted by zarah at 9:34 PM on July 4, 2005


Zarah: Yes, I was serious. I wouldn't have recognized her. Now I should say that there are maybe 5 people in the world who I could really picture if I closed my eyes. I'm just not a visual person...but I usually recognize people without any problem. She definitely looks old more hag-like, but I suppose 12 years in prison will do that.

The interview was very staged, but they only showed about half of it, so maybe they're saving the more interesting parts for prime-time ratings (yes, I said "More interesting parts"...I suppose that makes me one of the terrible people who feeds the media circus).
posted by duck at 9:38 PM on July 4, 2005


That would be an interesting person to talk to, mek, just to try and get an understanding of her headspace.

Hey, leave me out of it!
posted by headspace at 9:51 PM on July 4, 2005


"But what the court saw was a seemingly relaxed Homolka pulling down her husband's pants, fondling his penis, which she called Snuggles, and then performing fellatio during most of the tape..."

Snuggles? That's enough for a conviction right there.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 9:53 PM on July 4, 2005


No, no: five fresh fish works just fine as a porno name. Though I'd have to have another three sewn on to truly do it justice.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:08 PM on July 4, 2005


Soooooooo, when are the bikers gonna attack that One-Love chick or whatever...?
posted by mrblondemang at 10:17 PM on July 4, 2005


fondling his penis, which she called Snuggles

She named her husband's cock after the Fabric Softener Bear?
posted by jonson at 10:51 PM on July 4, 2005


jonson : "She named her husband's cock after the Fabric Softener Bear?"

Nonono, the fabric softener bear was named after her husband's cock.

But you should already know that, right, jonson? ; )
posted by Bugbread at 11:08 PM on July 4, 2005


Scene from the upcoming film, Old Karla:

"No mom... she's my dog.... I'll shoot her."

BLAM!

BLAM! BLAM! BLAM!


To paraphrase Dennis Miller: "She's a sociopathic chew toy. Seal the vault."

(Mssr. Miller was referring to Charles Manson in the above quote. Maybe she could share an apartment with Charles. She could name his cock "Chuckles", and sing backup on his comeback CD.)
posted by Darkman at 1:00 AM on July 5, 2005


Fuck Snuggles. Just play the record. Just play the goddamn record, OK? /Casey Kasem

How do I get on that Gaping Mefites list? I've always wanted to be in a club. And wouldn't compiling such a list automatically qualify one as such? The anal recursions bugger the imagination.
posted by loquacious at 3:16 AM on July 5, 2005


Heatherism

Oh, please, EB; it takes a solid-one-love-esque twisting of meaning to get anything "Heatherist" out of zarah's "don't belong." He clearly meant "aren't members," and you're being a dolt for implying otherwise. (In other words, I assume you're annoyed at being including in the "gaping assholes' list, but don't lose your head over it.)
posted by mediareport at 5:48 AM on July 5, 2005


bugbread writes "Did something get deleted, or can solid-one-love just not read?"

No, yes yes yes yes yes.
posted by OmieWise at 6:31 AM on July 5, 2005


solid-one-love:

I'm impressed by the lengths you went to to be a tool in this thread.

I wish you hadn't gotten shitty emails, though.
posted by OmieWise at 6:33 AM on July 5, 2005


Unclench, citizen.

I don't remember the last time two words made me laugh so much.
posted by Devils Slide at 6:40 AM on July 5, 2005


So I says to my wife, I says, "You should consider joining MetaFilter, there're a lot of really bright people there, and much stimulating conversation and debate."

This was the first thread she checked out, ha ha ha.
posted by Scoo at 7:11 AM on July 5, 2005


This was the first thread she checked out, ha ha ha.

Ouch. Hi, Scoo's wife. You may want to try this one; it has a couple of warts, but is overall a better example of the kind of smart, informed discussion folks here are capable of. But, really, even as there's no denying sniping and snark are part of the experience, they aren't difficult to ignore if that sort of thing isn't to your liking.

It is worth noting, however, that crap threads can also be full of unintentional entertainment value, so feel free to make some popcorn, put your feet up and enjoy the show if a thread starts degenerating into shit. It's kind of a hobby around here. :)
posted by mediareport at 7:50 AM on July 5, 2005


"He clearly meant 'aren't members,' and you're being a dolt for implying otherwise."

But she already had said that..."they aren't members so they aren't members"? That doesn't make sense. I think her meaning was clear: a lurker sending an email to a member is butting in where they "don't belong".
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 8:07 AM on July 5, 2005


This was the first thread she checked out, ha ha ha.

This issue came up on MeTa a while back. Each of us should remember that whatever we write is a) public and b) possibly going to be someone else's first, last, or only impression of this site and our community, of which most of us are usually pretty damn proud. I'm embarrassed by this thread, think it descended into a "worst of MeFi" condition as soon as SoL posted the snark that derailed, and took on a really ugly cast when SoL threatened to go to the law over nothing. Please ask your wife to give MeFi another look and another chance.
posted by realcountrymusic at 8:26 AM on July 5, 2005


Except, of course, that you're not Canadian, so your opinion doesn't amount to shit on this issue, and your analysis of what kind of RCMP report is illegal is not merely suspect, but irrelevant.

And this is where you lose all credibility. Because someone's not Canadian, their opinion on anything happening in Canada is worthless? That sure would make MetaFilter a lot simpler. I'd be one of a handful of people allowed to comment about Terri Schiavo, and practically no one would be commenting on Israel/Palestine threads.

(But then this comment is worthless because you're not American, right? I wouldn't have to see a zillion "OMG AMERIKKKA SUCKS" posts every time someone mentions Gitmo if that's the case.)
posted by oaf at 9:59 AM on July 5, 2005


As a Canadian, I would like to disavow all knowledge of and connection to solid-one-love.
posted by Jairus at 10:03 AM on July 5, 2005


In all seriousness, I'd love to sit down with the woman and have a drink - I'm sure she has some very interesting things to say that people are too busy recoiling in horror to hear.

you are seriously romanticizing her condition. I would bet she is simply quite stupid, selfish, and emotionally stunted. It's intriguing to imagine that people who commit these kinds of acts have deep and complex personalities, but to have committed such atrocities and feel no remorse seems indicative of a simple lack of awareness on her part.

I have no desire to see her suffer, but nor do I feel any interest in defending her "right to continued peaceful existence". Whatever happens, it's already tragic. The real reason I'd suggest the bikers not bother is for the sake of their own humanity; hers, from where I stand, is probably too far gone (or if she did grow a conscience, I'd think she would then just want to commit suicide).
posted by mdn at 10:24 AM on July 5, 2005


mdn-Good points all.
posted by OmieWise at 10:36 AM on July 5, 2005


I would bet she is simply quite stupid, selfish, and emotionally stunted.

As Arendt said "Evil Is Banal."

you are seriously romanticizing her condition.

No, he's trying to impress us all by showing how "far out" and "edgy" he is. (yawn).
posted by jonmc at 10:44 AM on July 5, 2005


The truly frightening thing is how damn smart the woman is. You could not recognize her! She was speaking French! Wow! I'd say she's got some great PR people working for her but I think she did this all herself. Just like she managed to convinced so many people she was a pawn.
posted by dontrememberthis at 11:49 AM on July 5, 2005


Karla gets twelve years. Michael walks and throws a party for the jury. No friggin' wonder people are fed up. I don't condone extralegal violence but I can certainly fathom the reason some feel it justified. If it was someone close to you who was bound, raped, and left for dead. If it was your sister or daughter who was murdered--and if you did NOT want vengence. I would wonder who the socipath really was.
posted by shockingbluamp at 3:50 PM on July 5, 2005


Er, Michael walked because there was no condemning evidence against him, despite the many years of best efforts of the prosecutors.

Karla, on the other hand, is on video doing unspeakably horrible things to unconscious victims and then killing them.

A big difference.
posted by five fresh fish at 5:03 PM on July 5, 2005


Hey clevershark and solid-one-love, GET A ROOM. Or a boxing ring. Way over *there* somewhere. Sell tickets if you want to, just don't expect me to show up.

As for Karla Homolka, I think she's hot.
posted by davy at 8:23 PM on July 5, 2005


And yet, strangely, I imagine she doesn't reciprocate. Go figure: you're not a teen girl.

Shudder. Gonna be trouble.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:50 PM on July 5, 2005


Hey f_f_f, who are you addressing and why?
posted by davy at 9:04 PM on July 7, 2005


As a Canadian, I would like to disavow all knowledge of and connection to Celine Dion.

And solid-one-love.

And the horde of rabid beavers that are slowly infiltrating the United States in order to devour all of your softwood lumber so that you have to import from Canada, no matter what we decide to charge you.

And the Barenaked Ladies.
posted by Darkman at 11:00 PM on July 7, 2005


Davy: you. You find her hot. She finds dead teenaged girls hot. You'll never make it work out. ok, so i assume you're not into dead teenaged girls...
posted by five fresh fish at 9:56 AM on July 8, 2005


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