Let the RSSevolution begin!

July 4, 2005 2:46 PM

The Longhorn Browser and RSS Team. Long video warning (almost an hour; how far will you get?) - If you've ever worked with the Redmondites, this'll look pretty familiar. What a kick to read all of ya'lls comments...how 'bout it?
posted by ValveAnnex (55 comments total)

I made it about as far as 2 1/2 minutes.
posted by bobo123 at 2:56 PM on July 4, 2005

I don't want to invest an hour unless this is really awesome... can you tell me a little bit more about what it is? Is it a preview of Longhorn's features? Is it an internal video to fire up the troops about the next OS? Is it a sex farce involving Bill Gates & Steve Ballmer?
posted by jonson at 3:02 PM on July 4, 2005

is there a difference?
posted by quonsar at 3:10 PM on July 4, 2005

Meh. Longhorn is vaporware.
posted by Rothko at 3:12 PM on July 4, 2005

As if the rest of the world didn't exist, they've discovered RSS, and have declared it is "everywhere". And I think they've discovered a way to make an orange "RSS" button appear on websites that feed RSS/XML. Who'da thoughta that?
posted by ValveAnnex at 3:24 PM on July 4, 2005

I made it about 20 seconds in. Any way you could give us a quick summary?
posted by monju_bosatsu at 3:31 PM on July 4, 2005

Anyone remember the first edition of The Road Ahead, when Bill Gates (still the head architect at MS, BTW) dismisses the internet as a fad of little interest to anyone except tech geeks?
posted by clevershark at 3:36 PM on July 4, 2005

I declare this BEST VIDEO LINK EVER!


NOT!
posted by scalz at 3:37 PM on July 4, 2005

Longhorn is vaporware

I have an ISO of it around here someplace.. at least that's what it claims to be...
posted by nervousfritz at 3:39 PM on July 4, 2005

Interesting. M. Night Shyamalan works for Microsoft. And he mentions podcasting. I have made it about 5 minutes in... can't take it much longer!
posted by scalz at 3:40 PM on July 4, 2005

podcasting: cb radio without the RF.
posted by quonsar at 3:44 PM on July 4, 2005

"RSS everywhere"? This is MS desperately trying to innovate... desperately trying to be relevant... desperately trying to make something out of Longhorn. I'm about 10 minutes in now.... and just kidding about M. Knight.
posted by scalz at 3:46 PM on July 4, 2005

"RSS everywhere". How typically-Microsoft to co-opt something and want to put it "everywhere".
posted by basicchannel at 4:05 PM on July 4, 2005

Quick, get it off, it's everywhere!!!
posted by ddf at 4:23 PM on July 4, 2005

The streaker that runs by (look out the office window) at about 40 minutes into it makes it all worthwhile.
posted by milnak at 4:25 PM on July 4, 2005

I just finished the first half hour, and at first it's just boring, but after twenty minutes in Microsoft unveils that they're switching to OSX.
posted by dial-tone at 4:29 PM on July 4, 2005

Well...wow. My eyes kind of burn. The tee-shirt on the fella's shoulder is driving me nuts. Take it off or put it on. HELP!
posted by ford and the prefects at 4:38 PM on July 4, 2005

I made it to the part where he started describing why RSS was important and it felt like a high school principal trying to explain why teen fashion is important; lots of buzzwords that probably add up to a right answer but seem so out of the loop that it doesn't get through.
posted by dflemingdotorg at 4:52 PM on July 4, 2005

* RSS everywhere

RSS platform built into Longhorn to enable developers to easily use RSS everywhere. Common feedlist: IE's list of subscribed feeds is shared with other apps.

- Example: calendar -- enclosing ICS files in the feed, imported into Outlook
- Example: photo blog -- enclosing photos in the feed, displayed as a screensaver
- Example: tv show -- enclosing an XML format for showtimes, imported into media center PC


* Extensions to RSS format

- "Treat-as": Some things aren't feeds but lists: it matters if things drop off, it's not just because it's old news -- for example top 10 lists, del.icio.us feeds, Amazon wishlists.
- Sort/filter: Specify which extra tags the feed-reading application should offer to sort or filter by, for example price, rating etc in Amazon lists.

Dodging the question of whether they're taking over the format ("I don't know how you can even do that").


* Subscribing to feeds

If you view a site with embedded feeds in IE, an RSS button shows up (just like in Firefox and Safari) -- however they only show a single feed per page for usability reasons. Clicking that button displays a simple view of the feed content with a search box (similar to Safari's view of a feed) -- then you have to click the bookmark button to actually subscribe.


Nothing that'd justify an hour-long presentational video, really. IE is playing catch-up with current browsers and they created a few simple demonstrations of using RSS outside the browser.
posted by c3o at 5:25 PM on July 4, 2005

And the hype continues ...

Time for the Next (Really) Big Internet Idea
"If you still aren't paying any heed to the RSS revolution, perhaps this will get your attention: $100 million."
posted by ericb at 5:25 PM on July 4, 2005

And Dave Winer is pissed at Apple. Gotta 'luv him. Not.
posted by ericb at 5:27 PM on July 4, 2005

Things that would get me to consider clicking on an hour long video file:

Car chases.
Explosions.
Spaceships shooting at each other.
Soft lesbian porn.
Ultra cool kung fu battles.
Liberal use of british curse words.
Witty dialogue filled with dry sarcasm.
Fart jokes.
Someone yelling "Leeroy Jenkins!"
Cute bunnies chased in slow motion by hungry predators.
Teenagers failing extreme sports stunts.
posted by ZachsMind at 5:36 PM on July 4, 2005

trying to make something out of Longhorn

Normally, I'd agree, but how does this help MS make Longhorn any more appealing to the general public? I guess it doesn't and they don't have to. Actually why do they bother since 99% of Windows sales come from PC bundling arrangements?
posted by scheptech at 5:44 PM on July 4, 2005

Isn't this old news?

Exchange 2003 and beyond is purely XML based, so they added an RSS component, so what. And when Longhorn ships (December 31, 2006) it will be two years past the outing of RSS. So what.

I think this is the marketing department at MS trying to put a happy face on Longhorn into the media. Nice going, they have earned their paycheck. The marketing people can stand in line with the lawyers - the line is one about variable truth.

The big question is where is RSS going? It would be cool to link RSS into GROOVE, now MSS owned. Everything you do (spreadsheets, documents, notes, diagrams, etc) could be published to those people who are listening. Your local newspapers would then include these changes, along with your stocks, sport scores, etc.

THAT is something open-source has not touched yet...unfortunately.
posted by fluffycreature at 7:52 PM on July 4, 2005

The funny thing is, the one person I know who knows the most about RSS turned his back on Microsoft technologies a couple of years ago. When he cancelled his MSDN membership MS made him all sorts of really sweet offers just to keep him on board (he's a well-known developer). He seems to be of the opinion that this latest PR push is, to borrow a turn of phrase, announcements full of sound an fury but signifying very little in practical terms.
posted by clevershark at 7:55 PM on July 4, 2005

fluffycreature writes "I think this is the marketing department at MS trying to put a happy face on Longhorn into the media."

Longhorn has been pushed back so many damn times that Microsoft is waking up to the fact that they must do *something* to keep people talking about it as an ongoing concern.

I can't wait to use it in 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007... aw, fuck it.
posted by clevershark at 7:59 PM on July 4, 2005

I've watched a good part of the video now, jumping forward a few times.

The "Look, we're brilliant! In late 2006 we'll release a browser which indicates when an RSS feed is on a page and allow one-click addition of the feed into an OPML." attitude annoyed me quite a bit.

Firefox on Windows does this today, and has done it for a while. Firefox is able to do this today because it was designed in a fashion that allows passionate users to easily expand on its functionality.

When they started drilling into the Outlook calendar syndication and integration features, I was livid. Microsoft has locked open, easy interoperability on an information level behind their proprietary formats and software forever.

Shared calendars in Outlook could have been this easy 10 years ago. Microsoft could have pioneered these open, text/XML based standards and led the Internet and their users forward. Would it have been so difficult to take a few weeks off of Sharepoint and Exchange development and ask what they can do for their users rather than what they can do for their monopoly? Assimilation is not innovation.

I'm as Microsoft-loving as they come, generally, but I'm pretty frustrated at this.
posted by VulcanMike at 8:22 PM on July 4, 2005

I should note, after some further reading, that Winer encourages the community to cut Microsoft some slack. He also goes on to suggest that Microsoft has changed, and time has passed, and that they’re willing to accept the "Internet's" terms. Well, he suggests that's what they'll claim, but in fairly positive terms, given the context.

I believe that's a bit naive. We're not talking about Microsoft adding their own standalone RSS reader to Windows. We’re talking about Microsoft integrating RSS into the operating system, into Internet Explorer and into its applications as well as adding its own extensions to the standard. They will control the user experience with RSS on every level for the vast majority of Windows users at that point, meaning that if RSS is not a vastly adopted and household-worded innovation by the Longhorn/IE+RSS/Office+RSS upgrade cycle, they will basically wrest control of the standard from its current public community.

Thus, it’s not just a matter of Microsoft “accepting the Internet’s terms” by and through its adoption of RSS. Microsoft will have to be interactive with and basically accountable to the community in order to preserve RSS as it stands today. Have we seen any real evidence of a willingness to go that far in their commitment?
posted by VulcanMike at 8:43 PM on July 4, 2005

I can't lose the feeling that RSS, as Microsoft envisions it, is just Internet "push" repackaged: the Internet as a passive consumer medium, like TV or radio. I understand why media moguls want this, but why would I want it?
posted by SPrintF at 9:04 PM on July 4, 2005

ok i had to stop at "where's contact-casting, outlook casting ..." and such. they are stupid things that should be text files locked up in proprietary formats, lol.

and these gotta be the sorriest nerds i've ever heard speak. it's like they'd rather be playing football instead of dicking around on the web and they're trying to front like they care about computers. for shame.
posted by 31d1 at 9:42 PM on July 4, 2005

Whenever MS starts talking about how cool it is to integrate everything with everything else, I just count all the people I know that use Active Desktop.
posted by signal at 9:43 PM on July 4, 2005

signal writes "Whenever MS starts talking about how cool it is to integrate everything with everything else, I just count all the people I know that use Active Desktop."

hehe... I don't know anyone who uses that since the Webshots application became available...
posted by clevershark at 9:48 PM on July 4, 2005

Ah, Microsoft....Bringing the innovations of yesterday to your doorstep 18 months from right now!
posted by mrblondemang at 10:05 PM on July 4, 2005

Wow! Microsoft might release something next year that Safari can do now. I can't wait.
posted by c13 at 10:29 PM on July 4, 2005

is just Internet "push" repackaged

This is exactly how they and a lot of others see it, long term. Turn your PC into a TV and sell ads, ads, ads.
posted by scheptech at 10:55 PM on July 4, 2005

Microsoft is irrelevent. They blew it. They allowed their software to develop a reputation for instability and vulnerability.

I know no one who would not prefer to see a shift toward better computers, by which they mean computers that they can rely on.

People are done with computers as esoteric machines. They expect their computer to work like a microwave: easily, reliably, cheaply, and safely.

Apple is providing that. The BSDs and Linux have the opportunity to do that. And I think Apple is quite smart enough to know that what benefits the FOSS crowd benefits them.

I will be delighted to purchase a Macintosh.
posted by five fresh fish at 11:24 PM on July 4, 2005

Thanks for the summary, c3o. I was genuinely excited to see something new in this video, as I think MS is turning itself around slowly, but I was disappointed.

I just stopped at 6:30 after hearing someone talk about how "RSS can be everywhere!" but how you use it is up to you. I think MS focuses a little too much on "it can be whatever you want" and could benefit from a little more vision.

If they can explain why my mom will care about their new technology (as Tiger's widgets or Firefox's pop-up blocking does), they'll be on the right track. But this video isn't good for my mom, and for someone like me, it just looks like catch up.
posted by jragon at 12:01 AM on July 5, 2005

Microsoft is irrelevent. They blew it. They allowed their software to develop a reputation for instability and vulnerability.

No, Microsoft is not irrelevant. As long as their OS is bundled on 95+% of computers sold and people continue to choose to buy their software, they're very, very relevant. No matter how much other companies innovate and Microsoft merely copies, when consumers use the feature, all they'll think is "hey, Microsoft is pretty cool for coming up with this" and won't even know or care about Firefox/Safari/Opera.
posted by gyc at 12:17 AM on July 5, 2005

it's like Jackass with nerds.
posted by matteo at 3:52 AM on July 5, 2005

I can't believe I watched it all. It confirms a couple of things for me.

1. Many programmer/techy types have a lot of trouble communicating their work / the product / uses / capabilities in lay speak. They may have a lot on their minds but there was a lot of jumping around and 1/2 explanations and esoteric minimalisms voiced.

2. Selfmade videos look terrible. Jeez, you'd think they could have done it all a bit better than as a late night hand-held circle jerk.

They say they will publish the extensions under Creative Commons license and make them available with attribution to developers. I only vaguely understand that but it seems better than their usual code hogging monopoly model.

I guess I learned a little more about RSS and skerricks about its potential. I subscribe to some feeds through bloglines but almost never use it -- haven't quite worked out why -- but I find I've got SO much continuous reading now that I'll have to d/l a feeder app./make myself use bloglines or I'll be wasting too much time visiting sites and loading data etc. It's not that I dislike the idea of the benefits of RSS but I've yet to devote the time to set myself up with it comfortably. I might check out some of the AskMe RSS threads and go do it.
posted by peacay at 6:04 AM on July 5, 2005

Ironically the video doesn't open in my Windows Media Player...
posted by chrismetcalf at 6:19 AM on July 5, 2005

Dave Winer's ego is on the loose again...
posted by bobloblaw at 6:31 AM on July 5, 2005

- Example: calendar -- enclosing ICS files in the feed, imported into Outlook

Damn it, does this still mean they can't support the ICS spec? I haven't messed with Outlook 2003 enough, but MS has done a poor job of supporting a spec they contributed to previously. ICS is supposed to support multiple calendar entries, updates, etc. That's why Apple's iCal lets you grab a calendar file from a URL! It always seems as if there's some middle manager group at MS that is told the new buzzword and forces half their team to wedge their work into that format no matter how impractical it is at that point.
posted by mikeh at 6:53 AM on July 5, 2005

This RSS, it vibrates?
posted by OmieWise at 8:32 AM on July 5, 2005

gyc: People have used the roads and infrastructure of the Roman Empire for a long, long time, even after the central authority that installed them and ostensibly owned them became irrelevant. Market share isn't that important in the longer run, and computer-industry time moves fast.
posted by sonofsamiam at 9:02 AM on July 5, 2005

As long as their OS is bundled on 95+% of computers sold and people continue to choose to buy their software, they're very, very relevant.

People choose a vendor (Dell, Apple, etc.), they don't choose Windows. A subtle, but important difference.
posted by Rothko at 9:55 AM on July 5, 2005

Exactly.

I need to replace my laptop.

Bargain-basement Intel laptops are going for under $1k these days. Apple's low-end iBook is $1300.

On the one hand, it's a 30% premium. On the other hand, it's only $300.

The small iBook has the same resolution as the cheap laptops, but with a much higher quality display, is significantly lighter, and has a far, far better OS and default suite of applications.

That sounds like $300 worth of advantage to me.

I loathe paying a penny more for my computer gear than is absolutely necessary. But this time around, I'm seeing that it's well worth it.

Microsoft is a goner. They can not offer a secure and safe OS and their entire application lineup can be replaced with FOSS software that performs as well or better.

In other words, they offer nothing of value any more.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:11 AM on July 5, 2005

In other words, they offer nothing of value any more.

In short, Microsoft's only tangible value now consists of the hold it has on its users through a file format monopoly. The Office suite is Microsoft's last remaining stranglehold on its users. The operating system can be replaced en tout with higher quality, safer open source or commercial alternatives.

If Longhorn can't offer compelling features beyond minor UI eye candy, feature additions to Internet Explorer that have been in place for more than a year on competing products, and ursurous DRM restrictions on its user base, then its release will fail and be remembered undoubtely as Microsoft's downfall as a company.

MS may have reserve cash, but you can't run a company very long that exists only to pay dividends.
posted by Rothko at 10:20 AM on July 5, 2005

y'all = you all
ya'll = ???
posted by aether1 at 10:51 AM on July 5, 2005

y'all = yawl = you all

ya'll = yahll = you all.

Different accents, s'all.
posted by five fresh fish at 11:11 AM on July 5, 2005

ursurous.
posted by quonsar at 11:13 AM on July 5, 2005

You got me. Usurious. Sorry, I'll bring my dictionary with me next time.
posted by Rothko at 11:32 AM on July 5, 2005

r u usurious?
posted by matteo at 12:57 PM on July 5, 2005

quonsar, if you meant usurious, that was a righteous comment.
posted by rush at 10:43 AM on July 6, 2005

five fresh fish wrote:

Microsoft is irrelevent. They blew it. They allowed their software to develop a reputation for instability and vulnerability.

I know no one who would not prefer to see a shift toward better computers, by which they mean computers that they can rely on.

People are done with computers as esoteric machines. They expect their computer to work like a microwave: easily, reliably, cheaply, and safely.

Very well stated. it's not really taken hold, but it seems like less and less people make light of Macs the way they used to. There seems to be less fait accompli about the idea that you HAVE to buy a Windows PC to have a computer that you can do your work on.

Not that the percentages of Mac or other machines has risen dramatically, but it feels like a slow corrosion of the world's reliance on Microsoft operating systems.

Oh, and I didn't watch the video either. :-)
posted by artlung at 3:44 PM on July 6, 2005