Comments on: Flash fun

Flash fun

boo_radley — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 12:45:13 -0800

Planarity Arrange the vertices such that no edges overlap. Or, A Farewell to Productivity

By: smcniven

smcniven — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 12:48:41 -0800

Bad boo. Bad..

By: iconomy

iconomy — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 12:49:49 -0800

I can't do the third one. Grr.

By: oddman

oddman — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 12:50:44 -0800

Thise is awesome.

By: Marquis

Marquis — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 12:51:19 -0800

There's got to be some simple mathematical rule one can follow to solve these, hasn't there? (also: fun!)

By: NinjaPirate

NinjaPirate — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 12:51:48 -0800

I think it's fair to say that, given the chance, my boss would beat the sh*t out of you for this. Marvellous.

By: oddman

oddman — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 12:51:59 -0800

So awesome it left me temporarily unable to spell simple words.

By: iconomy

iconomy — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 12:53:42 -0800

Ok I did the third one, but no way am I doing the next one. But then again I said that last time, so... [this is fun]

By: monju_bosatsu

monju_bosatsu — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 12:58:25 -0800

I finished 6 before the boss started throwing things at me.

By: googly

googly — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 12:58:55 -0800

This rocks my world. First flash puzzle game that seems to be based on a new concept that I have seen in a long time. Level 6 and counting...

By: jennaratrix

jennaratrix — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:01:11 -0800

I'm on the fifth one, and as soon as I finish it, I'm going to go find boo radley and kill him/her. As soon as I finish the 6th one. Okay, the 7th, definitely by the 8th, I'll be ready to hunt down boo...

By: chunking express

chunking express — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:03:20 -0800

I'm pretty sure there are algorithms for finding planar embeddings of graphs. That said, I don't think they are obvious or simple.

By: Wolfdog

Wolfdog — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:05:54 -0800

Nice, nice. I'd like to see a version of this implemented on a toroidal playing surface (even if it's just done by identifying edges in the current implementation). Many more graphs would be possible.

By: jrossi4r

jrossi4r — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:07:32 -0800

Like untying a knot (an activity I find oddly soothing). Thanks!

By: driveler

driveler — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:09:22 -0800

There's got to be some simple mathematical rule one can follow to solve these, hasn't there? Mathematically, the game is to find a planar embedding of a planar graph. This problem can be solved for a graph in a number of steps linear in the number of vertices, but it isn't particularly simple.

By: Mike D

Mike D — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:10:17 -0800

From the perspective of 4 pm-ish local time, it must be due to the long ago exhaustion of any residual brain power gleaned from my morning stimulant, but "arrange the vertices such that no edges overlap" ?? Can someone please re-cast that in, maybe, plainer English (and no that's not a "planar" typo!)? Thanks, Mike

By: duck

duck — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:11:41 -0800

There's got to be some simple mathematical rule one can follow to solve these, hasn't there? Simple, no. But there are algorithms for creating network diagrams. A list of software for both analyzing and drawing here. Crippled from years of using these programs, I couldn't get past the second diagram when I first heard about this a few days ago...I'm going to try again now.

By: googly

googly — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:11:41 -0800

Mike: arrange the dots so that no lines cross.

By: carmina

carmina — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:13:56 -0800

Couldn't you just wait for Friday? Jeez!

By: evinrude

evinrude — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:14:01 -0800

This is fantastic.

By: Corky

Corky — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:26:59 -0800

Time Sink Hole... I got to Level Four! Sent this to The Boyfriend™ - I won't see him again for hours!

By: delmoi

delmoi — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:38:15 -0800

Wow, reminds me of all the abstrac Comp Sci classes I ever took, for good reason. Here's the stratagy I used to solve #5. Take all the dots connected to only two other dots, and put them on the outside, then do the same for the dots with three, and put all the dots with four in the center. Then try to get all the connected dots close to their 'parents' (meaning the dots farther from the center), you might have to move around the outer dots. From there, just work it out as you had been doing. on the easier stages.

By: jacquilynne

jacquilynne — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:42:30 -0800

This is fun, but I'd find it a lot easier if I could see the whole thing on my screen at once.

By: mce

mce — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:43:22 -0800

Not a mathematical model as such (though as pointed out earlier such solutions are an important study) but I do have some tips. Try thinking of the diagram as being a 'web' of springs. Bring nodes closely connected closer together. Try taking some highly connected nodes and move them until their vertices radiate evenly, starfish like. Reduce tension. Optomize locally. On preview - what delmoi said ;)

By: Carbolic

Carbolic — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:49:31 -0800

After doing one and two lickety-split I was beginning to feel like some sort of genius. Three put me in my place at which point I quit.

By: djwudi

djwudi — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:49:45 -0800

I finished level 9 last night (mostly because Kottke [Waxy?] said he got through level 8, and I'm stubborn). No way am I getting back into it here at work. _Far_ too much of a time sink. Tonight, though... On preview: my general take was similar to mce's. I ended up thinking of the strings as elastic, and doing what I could to bunch clusters together in the center...after a while, it made it easier to start to see patterns and intuit which movements would work best next. That, and a _lot_ of trial and error.

By: aubilenon

aubilenon — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:50:47 -0800

Back in college I was screwing around with Kohonen Self Organizing Feature Maps, which learn a relatively smooth n-dimensional surface in an m-dimensional space that roughly confirm to a set of m-dimentional points it's trained on. With m and n = 2, it was really easy to show on the screen - just a grid which starts out all tangled (like these do) on the screen. As I fed it training points it would kind of shake itself out and end up being a regular grid, with maybe a twist in it. It was really fun to watch (or to train it on your mouse!) and this strongly reminds me of it. It had that feeling of just kind of shaking it until it settles out into a simpler configuration.

By: nobody

nobody — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:50:51 -0800

This is great. Levels one through four I could fiddle through intuitively within a couple of minutes. Level five feels like it will take three times that long just to move the dots around to the appropriate sides. (On preview, keeping something like mce's well-said "reduce tension" directive at heart is probably roughly how I had been stumbling through the earlier levels.)

By: delmoi

delmoi — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:51:19 -0800

got to level 7

By: bhorling

bhorling — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:52:41 -0800

My metaphore is to think of it like a piece of crumpled paper that I am trying to uncrumple. Crossed edges indicate that part of the "paper" is overlapping, and that image can sometimes help find the axis/crease that needs to be unfolded next. The springs metaphore works well at the start of each level, although if you take it too far you can wind up with all the vertices clumped in an ugly little blob in the middle. I got to 10, but at that point it was taking so long for the program to detect if I had won or not it was getting more frustrating than fun. There was about a 10-20 second pause after moving each vertex towards the end of level 9. Makes it hard to experiment.

By: carmina

carmina — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:52:43 -0800

8 is a pain...

By: dig_duggler

dig_duggler — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:52:58 -0800

That sheet is fun!

By: tcp

tcp — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:54:58 -0800

great game - thanks, boo_radley

By: carmina

carmina — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:55:00 -0800

bhorling, what (seems) to work for me is to gather a few red dots together at a time and then (usually) you can see what could act as a perimeter (or a larger loop)... 9.

By: Wolfdog

Wolfdog — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:55:58 -0800

> I'm pretty sure there are algorithms for finding planar embeddings of graphs. If you're good at 3-d thinking, it's easy to embed any one of these graphs into a surface of higher genus. Now repeatedly surger the surface to reduce genus until it's a punctured sphere and project back into the plane.

By: googly

googly — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:58:40 -0800

I have a similar approach to mce and djwudi. I start out by clearing a space in one part of the screen, then move a point there and start "bunching" together points that are joined. Points with only two connections form little self-contained triangles that often don't have to be adjusted for the rest of the screen. Got me to level 9, then I quit because it becomes tedious trying to arrange the points in such a small space...

By: tula

tula — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 14:00:24 -0800

It's like a untying a knot alright, a knot designed by SATAN!

By: b1tr0t

b1tr0t — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 14:00:39 -0800

level 42 is a bit tough.

By: sciurus

sciurus — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 14:02:01 -0800

I'm really good at this game, for once. I always was good at spatial relationships. I got through level 8 after 10 minutes, then stopped.

By: crunchywelch

crunchywelch — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 14:03:53 -0800

wolfdog just made my brain asplode. great game, thanks!

By: delmoi

delmoi — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 14:09:15 -0800

got to level 8 :)

By: Sparx

Sparx — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 14:12:22 -0800

Wolfdog: I tried that but my brain broke. You owe me a new brain.

By: growli

growli — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 14:21:37 -0800

stopped after level 7 because i got tired of moving those circles around. they should have a shift-click multi-select of the vertices...

By: Chuckles

Chuckles — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 14:24:49 -0800

It is a lot like doing printed circuit board layout (the memories...)

By: ArsncHeart

ArsncHeart — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 14:36:01 -0800

I'm always the one who untangles the Christmas lights every year, and and my girl-friends always bring me their necklaces to unknot (my like jrossi, I find this fun to do, for some odd reason). I finished level 10 after 16 minutes. My strategy is to go around the outside and put the dots that are connected to four others in the "center" of their group. Keep doing that continuously until you get done with the circle. It helps. I'd do 11, but I'm afraid it's going to crash my laptop. (Boo, hiss.) Thanks boo_radley.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 14:49:09 -0800

got to level 9 :P

By: buzzman

buzzman — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 14:50:46 -0800

Well, that was fun. Back to food, sex, and sleep.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 14:52:08 -0800

and, there I stopped. By the way, if you click "reshuffle" you'll get the same graph (I think) but rearanged randomly. It's still a better starting place then the circle, IMO.

By: ArsncHeart

ArsncHeart — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 14:52:30 -0800

Okay...I went and did 11 anyway, and specifically concentrated on centering every dot in the middle of its group. Makes things messier at first, but eventually works for me. YMMV.

By: alms

alms — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 14:57:58 -0800

This is evil. I'm glad it's 6:00 and time for me to go home. Now all I have to fear is a palm version.

By: louigi

louigi — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 15:04:10 -0800

ArsncHeart, that's called the "rubber band" solution. It's mathematically pretty complex, actually, but the idea is beautifully simple. (It doesn't always work for this problem...)

By: bjrubble

bjrubble — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 15:06:11 -0800

Got to level 8 before I remembered I have a job. I found a good initial strategy was to assume that at the finish most dots will not connect with dots on the other side of the graph. So, grab a dot at random and drag it to the side, then grab every other dot connected to it and make a pile near first one. Do this for about 20% of the dots, then grab an as-yet-unmoved dot and start a new pile. Eventually you should have several piles with a (relatively) manageable number of connections between them.

By: fenriq

fenriq — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 15:23:02 -0800

That's pretty fun though I didn't find it especially difficult. I think it needs the rag doll bikini lady bouncing around it to make it more exciting.

By: jacquilynne

jacquilynne — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 15:30:42 -0800

Hrmm, the more I play this, the more I think the function behind it would be nice and useful for laying out complex interface charts. I'd like to be able to custom link my dots and then drag them around to get a nice layout of my applications with no crossing lines.

By: nervousfritz

nervousfritz — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 15:43:46 -0800

Wouldn't we all.

By: furtive

furtive — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 15:51:23 -0800

I'm at level 11 with a score of 97,133. Not bored yet.

By: jokeefe

jokeefe — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 16:05:25 -0800

You people are sick.

By: Chuckles

Chuckles — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 16:06:08 -0800

1,631,398 - Level 14 complete. I think I will have to quite, it is getting really really slow!

By: Fricka

Fricka — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 16:06:25 -0800

I think being a rock climber has helped me out with this excercise especially one who initially had to deal with multipitch climbs with parties of 3, tangled ropes, and not much time before the sun went down. Fun game, though I wish it would say just how many levels there are!

By: ryanhealy

ryanhealy — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 16:06:55 -0800

Fantastic game. I cruised through level 5 and now I'm stumped. There's an art to it, though.

By: furtive

furtive — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 16:13:46 -0800

I think Chucles wins. I'm at 12 and not sure if I feel like going futher.

By: scottreynen

scottreynen — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 16:21:32 -0800

I wasted hours playing this last night. I thought level 12 would be the last, as the circle looked full. When I got to 13, I thought about leaving it open until the morning, but decided instead to quit and pretend it wasn't there, taunting me with its chaos, begging to be ordered. Only to see this post now. They either need to provide game saves (or level passwords), or start a 12 step program.

By: fandango_matt

fandango_matt — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 16:33:02 -0800

There! Are! Four! Lights!

By: Chuckles

Chuckles — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 16:41:09 -0800

Okay, I just completed level 15. That took about half an hour, it must have teken 5 minutes just to calculate my last move... I think that means it is time to quite.

By: es_de_bah

es_de_bah — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 18:10:15 -0800

all the fun of undoing knots!

By: Citizen Premier

Citizen Premier — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 18:28:52 -0800

I bet if you solve level sixteen some guy with pins in his face comes and shoots chains into your body...

By: Who_Am_I

Who_Am_I — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 18:36:57 -0800

Having just completed Discrete Math last semester...I hate you ;)

By: Peach

Peach — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 19:03:56 -0800

Got through Level 3 before I realized I'd been sucked in. I didn't mean to do it.

By: Elsbet

Elsbet — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 19:09:14 -0800

Finished level 10 just now. I think that's it for me. I'm supposed to be packing! I was using a modified rubber band method. I would get a random node in the middle of all it's attached nodes and repeat that for a while until an obvious pattern emerged. When I lost the pattern, I'd go back to the rubber band thing. Fun!

By: yhbc

yhbc — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 19:36:10 -0800

Theoretically, if I keep hitting "shuffle vertices" they will all solve themselves eventually, correct?

By: BlackLeotardFront

BlackLeotardFront — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 19:52:08 -0800

If you finish 16 you get drafted into an alien army to fight a war where the enemies are intersections of lines... ala last starfighter if any of you remember that fantastic, fantastic movie.

By: kenko

kenko — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 20:05:11 -0800

It's more like Time Out of Joint, actually.

By: Falconetti

Falconetti — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 20:25:32 -0800

Made it to 13 and decided it was no longer worth it. Been dreaming of nodes and tangles all night.

By: MonkeySaltedNuts

MonkeySaltedNuts — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 20:52:22 -0800

This is about as much fun as untangling string. And yes, I did other things during that 2 hours. I don't think I will attempt level 17. There won't be enough blank space for copying structures. My basic approach in the higher levels is to get regions sorta right then transfer them into a blank area while preserving most of the 'topology' and fixing the errors. If the screen could scroll infinitely to the left and right the some of the needless copying could be avoided.

By: angry modem

angry modem — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 22:58:30 -0800

level 37 had colored vertices that had to be arranged in a certain order.

By: squidlarkin

squidlarkin — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 23:42:48 -0800

Watch out! After level 50 there are gas pockets that can kill you instantly!

By: rafter

rafter — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 23:47:28 -0800

But then you fight the devil and it's so awesome.

By: deborah

deborah — Wed, 13 Jul 2005 00:17:01 -0800

I say we nuke boo from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. I tried earlier and gave up after the first one. I just did the fourth one. Yay me!

By: Down10

Down10 — Wed, 13 Jul 2005 00:26:46 -0800

I finished Level 13 before my CPU crapped out on me. Great game... and under 7KB in size, at that!

By: abcde

abcde — Wed, 13 Jul 2005 00:44:12 -0800

Check out the high scores, #3 - apparently someone at G4 (or a fan) is a bit obsessive.

By: aubilenon

aubilenon — Wed, 13 Jul 2005 01:29:39 -0800

It would be awesome if graph untangling were isomorphic to prime factorization and John Tantalo were using a distributed network of humans to crack crypto.

By: Bdave

Bdave — Wed, 13 Jul 2005 05:54:29 -0800

boo_radley: Please die or be killed. Now. Or help me die. Faster.

By: Chuckles

Chuckles — Wed, 13 Jul 2005 05:54:52 -0800

MonkeySaltedNuts, if you did a board layout like that you would be fired (looks like an effective enough strategy for the game though).

By: mrben

mrben — Wed, 13 Jul 2005 06:08:58 -0800

this is too much like UV mapping for textures in 3d animation .. so it kinda is my job. perhaps i won't get fired

By: Mike D

Mike D — Wed, 13 Jul 2005 07:01:21 -0800

"Mike: arrange the dots so that no lines cross." THANK YOU! Mike (who is not stupid, but who does interpret "vertices" to mean vertical things and "edges" to mean "things at the periphery".)

By: PrincessRue

PrincessRue — Wed, 13 Jul 2005 07:14:28 -0800

um - i have these two vertices RIGHT on top of each other - COMPLETELY appearing as one... that's ok, right? i can move on now? no? but... you really can't even tell they coexist... shoot. alright.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Wed, 13 Jul 2005 11:37:18 -0800

What would be nice would be able to move portions of the graph without losing their structure, after a while the portion of the graph you're working on gets crowded, and you can't go on.

By: monju_bosatsu

monju_bosatsu — Wed, 13 Jul 2005 15:27:51 -0800

My version of flash was unable to cope with the script about half-way through level 18, and crashed my browser. Which is probably a good thing, because my brain was starting to melt.

By: boo_radley

boo_radley — Wed, 13 Jul 2005 15:48:14 -0800

when my computer started to get boggy, I turned down the flash quality and sallied forth

By: Toecutter

Toecutter — Wed, 13 Jul 2005 20:47:57 -0800

Danger.

By: pointilist

pointilist — Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:02:59 -0800

Inspired by MonkeySaltedNuts, I tried for the long square lines and nested vertices on the diagonal. How did I end up with something that looks like New York State? A girlfriend once remarked that our life drawing figures were twisted reflections of our unconscious demons. So are these twisted reflections of my unconscious road atlas?

By: OmieWise

OmieWise — Thu, 14 Jul 2005 08:22:22 -0800

Very cool. I have no idea why I waited so long to click the link.

By: caution live frogs

caution live frogs — Thu, 14 Jul 2005 09:03:56 -0800

Level 8 in 9:21, and here I was feeling proud until I saw the screen grab from MonkeySaltedNuts. Damn. Someone send me a reminder that this flash thing exists after I finish my thesis.

By: caution live frogs

caution live frogs — Thu, 14 Jul 2005 09:27:31 -0800

Odd. 9 took nearly 20 minutes and 10 I finished in under 9 minutes. Somebody unplug my computer now, please.