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Early reports of further incidents in London
July 21, 2005 5:32 AM   RSS feed for this thread Subscribe

Early report of further terrorist incidents in London Looks like a bomb may have failed to go off...
posted by runkelfinker (204 comments total)

Reported incidents at Warren St, Oval and Shepherd's Bush according to the Guardian.
posted by plep at 5:35 AM on July 21, 2005


Not again. Please, not again!
posted by metaxa at 5:40 AM on July 21, 2005


Here we go again...

I hope it's nothing serious. The reports sound worrying.
posted by Acey at 5:40 AM on July 21, 2005


I'm listening to the radio and it all seems to be very vague, they say 3 tube stations closed, and hospitals preparing BUT no reports of any casualties.

I'm hoping for the best.
posted by mrs.pants at 5:44 AM on July 21, 2005


It's sounding much less serious.
posted by nthdegx at 5:44 AM on July 21, 2005


BBC reports no injuries so far. CNN says there might have been a small explosion, but that's unconfirmed as yet.
posted by slf at 5:46 AM on July 21, 2005


I was just e-mailed the following, I'm not sure of the source:

Emergency services have been called to three Tube stations after "incidents", Scotland Yard said. Police confirmed they had been called to Warren Street, Oval and Shepherd's Bush stations.

There have been reports of smoke coming from the stations and all three have been evacuated.

The whole of the Northern Line has been suspended, along with the Victoria Line and the Hammersmith and City. There are no reports of any casualties.

A spokesman for London Underground said the nature of the incidents was unknown.

One hospital, near Warren St station, has started its emergency plan.

TUBE EXPLOSION REPORTED

There have been unconfirmed reports of an apparently minor explosion on the London Underground.

There are no reports of casualties.

A series of incidents have been reported near Warren Street, Oval and Shepherd's Bush stations on the London Underground.

The stations have been evacuated.

Train passenger Ivan McCracken told Sky News he spoke to an Italian man who witnessed an explosion.

"He told me he had seen a man carrying a rucksack which suddenly exploded. It was a minor explosion but enough to blow open his rucksack. Everyone rushed from the carriage. People evacuated very quickly. There was no panic.

"I didn't see anyone injured but there was shock and fright.

"There was a smell of smoke."

"The man who was holding the rucksack looked extremely dismayed.

Police have cordoned off the streets around Warren Street station. They said a suspect package had been reported on a Victoria Line train.

Sky reporter Mark White said authorities are "pushing everybody as far back from the station as they can".

It is two weeks to the day since bombers attacked three Tube trains and a bus in central London.

Another eyewitness, Sosiane Mohellavi, said "Everyone panicked and people were screaming.

"We had to pull the alarm. I am still shaking."
posted by misteraitch at 5:47 AM on July 21, 2005


"He told me he had seen a man carrying a rucksack which suddenly exploded. It was a minor explosion but enough to blow open his rucksack. Everyone rushed from the carriage. People evacuated very quickly. There was no panic."

"The man who was holding the rucksack looked extremely dismayed."

What the...?
posted by Acey at 5:48 AM on July 21, 2005


'Incidents' spark Tube evacuation. Again, no casualties reported.
posted by grabbingsand at 5:49 AM on July 21, 2005


There is also a tiny explosion atop a route 26 bus in Hackney Road.
posted by riffola at 5:50 AM on July 21, 2005


Just a guess, but it may be there is a none-too-subtle target name choice, based in symbolism, at work here

From Yahoo News:
The message/symbolism?

1. Oval (as "Oval Office)

2. Warran Street (as in "War In [the] Streets")

3. Shepherd's Bush (as in "Bush the Shepherd")
posted by Dunvegan at 5:50 AM on July 21, 2005


""The man who was holding the rucksack looked extremely dismayed."

Well I certainly hope he detained / photographed / pointed out / or otherwise messed around with the guy carrying the exploding rucksack!
posted by Mutant at 5:51 AM on July 21, 2005


Dunvegan, that's a bit speculative, don't you think?
posted by Acey at 5:52 AM on July 21, 2005


2. Warran Street (as in "War In [the] Streets")

That's a bit of a stretch.
posted by anagrama at 5:52 AM on July 21, 2005


From Auntie Beeb: "Dummy explosions using detonators only have sparked the evacuation of three Tube stations and the closure of three lines, a BBC correspondent has said."
posted by metaxa at 5:53 AM on July 21, 2005


I'd guess it's more to do with cricket at the oval, the bbc at shepherd's bush and the fact that Warren Street is fairly bloody central. As for the no. 26 bus... who can tell.
posted by handee at 5:55 AM on July 21, 2005


a copycat thing?
posted by amberglow at 5:55 AM on July 21, 2005


The cricket is at Lords, not the Oval, handee.
posted by metaxa at 5:56 AM on July 21, 2005


a copycat thing?

The Sun's latest undercover security test?
posted by anagrama at 5:56 AM on July 21, 2005


Witness accounts speculate they may have been smoke bomb-type explosives, nothing big apparently.
posted by Acey at 5:57 AM on July 21, 2005


The first time as tragedy, the second time as farce.

I hope...
posted by alumshubby at 5:57 AM on July 21, 2005


misteraitch: that's from Sky News
posted by mr.marx at 5:58 AM on July 21, 2005


The street next to my office has been cordoned off because the Victoria Line from Warren Street passes under it...
posted by runkelfinker at 5:58 AM on July 21, 2005


Dunvegan - Get a grip, please.
posted by the cuban at 5:58 AM on July 21, 2005


Notice from London Transport.
21/7 Flickr Photo Pool (Still Empty).

And my guess, Dunvegan, is that these stations were chosen because of their strategic placement. As before, these are all (I believe) along the arc of the Northern Line, thus making a complete shutdown of a very busy section of The Tube necessary if successful.
posted by grabbingsand at 5:58 AM on July 21, 2005


Thanks mr marx, I guessed as much but the Sky site gets messed up by the firewall here, so I couldn't cross-check it.
posted by misteraitch at 6:01 AM on July 21, 2005


1 person injured at Warren St.
posted by riffola at 6:02 AM on July 21, 2005


NBC is saying that the police are not treating this as a "major event" so far. Glad to know that there are varying degrees of terror.
posted by ColdChef at 6:03 AM on July 21, 2005


A reporter on CNN says that there was definitely an explosion on a train a short distance from Warren St. stn. He was told by a cop that the bomb squad is currently at the scene. London Transport is reporting so far 1 person has been injured.
posted by riffola at 6:04 AM on July 21, 2005


London Transport is reporting so far 1 person has been injured.

Let's hope it stays that way.
posted by Acey at 6:06 AM on July 21, 2005


Anyone else's mobile out of action? I can't get a connection on O2...
posted by Mutant at 6:07 AM on July 21, 2005


I'm intrigued by the reports of "a look of dismay" on the face of the dude with the backpack.
posted by dsquid at 6:08 AM on July 21, 2005


Hopefully this is a failed attempt by the same network that did the 7/7 bombing. Hopefully they can nab the guy with the defective bomb and learn something.
posted by Mid at 6:08 AM on July 21, 2005


Everyone I've seen (I'm in London) is much more "blah" about this one. Here's hoping they get everything up and running again so we can ignore this and all attempts like it. It's completely pointless if "they" (whoever they are) are not going to use it to bring any issues, damands or causes to light, and if there's really nothing we can do about it, then as I said, literally just ignoring it (with due respect for the casualties, of course) seems the best plan to me.

Of course, the tabloids will see this an another opportunity to start screaming and ranting. Fuck 'em.
posted by Drexen at 6:09 AM on July 21, 2005


Three tube trains, one bus, two weeks after the last attack on three tube stations, and one bus.

Copycat.

Incompetent one, at that, thank Ghugle.
posted by eriko at 6:09 AM on July 21, 2005


The Guardian Newsblog is really keeping on top of things.
posted by LondonYank at 6:10 AM on July 21, 2005


Looks like a hoax.

A passenger on the central line at Shephards Bush (at this moment on the BBC) says there was a loud bang, but no bomb.
posted by three blind mice at 6:10 AM on July 21, 2005


"Glad to know that there are varying degrees of terror."

What does this mean, please?
posted by nthdegx at 6:11 AM on July 21, 2005


Anyone else's mobile out of action? I can't get a connection on O2...

Vodafone has been on and off. Probably an overload on capacity rather than a shut down.
posted by three blind mice at 6:13 AM on July 21, 2005


Dunvegan, that's a bit speculative, don't you think?
posted by Acey at 5:52 AM PST on July 21

Oh, yes...it is an entirely speculative hypothetical...I agree...like I said, I'm just guessing and wondering aloud [in print.]

As terrorism and symbolic targets are subject matter I've spoken on before, you may be right that I'm using a hammer to drive a screw because a hammer is the only think in my tool-kit.

But it struck me as odd immediately that each and every of the above stations could be a commentary on Britain’s relationship with President Bush and the war on terrorism.

BTW: There was much discussion as to the symbolism (if any) attached to the choice of the 911 terrorists to hijack only airplanes from United and American.

The fact that no one is hurt is equally interesting...like someone is trying to get someone's attention.

If these are smaller or less traveled lines, that would make this smoke bombing even more possibly a message. Does anyone know how traveled these lines are?

And, I hope with all my heart that those smoke devices are not decoys to lure first responders to the area for a second wave attack.
posted by Dunvegan at 6:14 AM on July 21, 2005


Everyone's being told to get off the phone- cops say they're worried that phones will detonate the undetonated bombs (Sky news)
posted by Pericles at 6:15 AM on July 21, 2005


Let's deal in facts for now. There's going to be far too much rumor mongering in the early stages. Less noise, more signal.
posted by LondonYank at 6:15 AM on July 21, 2005


Armed police storm in to University College Hospital. Hmm. Wonder why?
posted by keijo at 6:17 AM on July 21, 2005


Everyone's being told to get off the phone- cops say they're worried that phones will detonate the undetonated bombs (Sky news)

They went through all this two weeks ago and it turned out to be crap.
posted by nthdegx at 6:18 AM on July 21, 2005


Armed police enter the Univ. Hospital.
posted by riffola at 6:18 AM on July 21, 2005


The three "incidents" were at Warren Street, Shephards Bush, Oval and on a bus in Hackney.

The emergency services are making it quite clear that this is NO major event has been declared.

They are confirming that there has definitely been a small explosion at Warren Street - an armed response team is entering University College Hospital.
posted by three blind mice at 6:19 AM on July 21, 2005


Sounds like they are a bunch of morons (somewhat luckily).
posted by Acey at 6:19 AM on July 21, 2005


I find it uncanny that it's three Tube stations and one bus again.
posted by slf at 6:20 AM on July 21, 2005


I hope with all my heart that those smoke devices are not decoys to lure first responders to the area for a second wave attack.

That would be copying the IRA.
posted by three blind mice at 6:20 AM on July 21, 2005


Okay...I'll "get a grip"...and drop the topic.

It was just a speculation that struck me,and I am sorry to have carry off on a tangent.
posted by Dunvegan at 6:21 AM on July 21, 2005


An eye-witness says that No. 26 bus in Hackney is empty, but no sign of an explosion.
posted by three blind mice at 6:21 AM on July 21, 2005


Pericles: So they haven't yet shut down the phone service? I thought they did that fairly early on. Do you know when such an action would be taken?
posted by voltairemodern at 6:22 AM on July 21, 2005


One thing that seems obvious is how there is very little we can realistically do to prevent this kind of thing happening. As long as there are explosives readily available, this will continue.
posted by Acey at 6:22 AM on July 21, 2005


...and equally sorry to not be able to edit my own post for grammar, not enough caffeine, I'm afraid.

Going to have a strong cuppa and think of England.
posted by Dunvegan at 6:23 AM on July 21, 2005


i wonder if they can track all this in real time over the thousands of video cameras
posted by reality at 6:24 AM on July 21, 2005


Acey Nothing is obvious at this point.
posted by three blind mice at 6:25 AM on July 21, 2005


A "nail bomb" at Warren Street.

I'd also like to be first to say fuck the terrorist coontbags responsible, assuming this info is authentic
posted by dhoyt at 6:28 AM on July 21, 2005


Probably just a precaution but disturbing nonetheless: cops are putting on chemical suits before going down into the trains. There haven't been any reports of people overcome by any fumes or weird smells, have there?
posted by CunningLinguist at 6:29 AM on July 21, 2005


Dunvegan, I did not find your comments totally unwarrented. Sure they are very speculative and farfetched, but the observation of possible symbolism should at least be discussed.
posted by cpchester at 6:30 AM on July 21, 2005


From the Grauniad:

An eyewitness has told Sky News that he was in the carriage next to the explosion at Warren Street. Someone dumped a large, black holdall or rucksack on the train and then ran off. Other passengers tried to stop him running away, but he escaped. Something in the bag went off, making a sound "like a Champagne cork popping".
posted by CunningLinguist at 6:31 AM on July 21, 2005


Acey - I've heard "they" are working on EM scanners that can detect explosives at a distance, but if it's true, it would be a deep-black budget project, as you can imagine.

I was imanining you could bounce a properly-tuned radar or microwave beam off suspected concealed bombs, and detect their unique signature on a special sensor.

Someone, please invent this!
posted by reality at 6:32 AM on July 21, 2005


Metropolitan police says there are a total of 4 explosions or attempted explosions, and the bombs appeared to be smaller than two weeks ago and casualties light. (Reuters)
posted by keijo at 6:33 AM on July 21, 2005


As long as there are explosives readily available, this will continue.
Yes, and unfortunately, as long as we have a society where the rich get richer by raping and plundering the resources of poor countries, this will continue.
posted by TechnoLustLuddite at 6:34 AM on July 21, 2005


Met police says that these ARE explosions, smaller blasts than 7/7.
posted by three blind mice at 6:34 AM on July 21, 2005


Small explosions. Any possibility these were delivering something chemical/biological?
posted by Jongo at 6:36 AM on July 21, 2005


Blair wll give speech at 3pm.
posted by keijo at 6:36 AM on July 21, 2005


Shh, lets not talk about it anymore, then they might stop doing it.
posted by fadeout at 6:36 AM on July 21, 2005


three blind mice, reality: Maybe this isn't the time to discuss it, but I have always felt (since 9/11 anyway) that much of the security is for show and that even those that have to check bags or whatever don't know what they are looking for anyway. Of course, to a certain degree, there is something that can be done, but the risk isn't going to go away.

Jongo: I thought the same thing, but it looks like they just failed.
posted by Acey at 6:37 AM on July 21, 2005


Eyewitness report on local BBC radio, leaving the Northern Line on Warren Street, heard a "bang", no one panicked, police arrived very quickly and cleared the station.

Still NO MAJOR incident.
posted by three blind mice at 6:38 AM on July 21, 2005


Acey: how do you know?

Also: what up the incident at Uni College hospital?
posted by Jongo at 6:39 AM on July 21, 2005


Jongo: I don't for sure, but the signs seem to be pointing to failed explosions rather than some chemical thing.
posted by Acey at 6:40 AM on July 21, 2005


No info on Uni College hospital anywhere, cordoned off, police still inside.
posted by keijo at 6:40 AM on July 21, 2005


Widespread media and police speculation that the detonators went off, but the bombs themselves did not.

Reports one of the attempted bombers was tackled and caught.
posted by CunningLinguist at 6:41 AM on July 21, 2005


Any possibility these were delivering something chemical/biological?

Early reports suggest large quantities of chemical mixture of hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen.

Sky news is reporting the bombers were all carrying Probiotic Bactirium.

Fox News reports that the sky is falling.
posted by Meccabilly at 6:43 AM on July 21, 2005


Emergency services are responding to three alerts at Warren, Oval, Shephards Bush, and a bus in Hackney

Sir Ian Blair, met police chief speech being broadcast now confirms four minor explosions, "casualties are light", Warren Street, Oval and Shephards Bush (above ground) and on the No. 26 bus in Hackney.
posted by three blind mice at 6:43 AM on July 21, 2005


I found these explosions formulaic: an uninspired retread of the same tired old elements, that utterly fails to capture the charm and wit of the original. Sequels are so often unimpressive, but even by those standards the sheer lack of effort put into this lazily cynical cash-in is staggering. Very disappointing.
posted by flashboy at 6:47 AM on July 21, 2005


Yes, and unfortunately, as long as we have a society where the rich get richer by raping and plundering the resources of poor countries, this will continue.

Good luck fixing that. Send me a photo of you actually hugging the rainbow. I assume you'll get right on it after your sociology paper is finished.
posted by Mayor Curley at 6:47 AM on July 21, 2005


Met: No chemical agent at Oval.
posted by keijo at 6:47 AM on July 21, 2005


YOUR SUPERIOR INTELLIGENCE IS NO MATCH FOR OUR PUNY WEAPONS!!
posted by Pretty_Generic at 6:48 AM on July 21, 2005


Why is it that half the folks say no one panicked, and the other half say everyone screamed and panicked and rushed to get off the carriage?
posted by heydanno at 6:48 AM on July 21, 2005


Fox News reports that the sky is falling.

Very good Meccabilly.

Victoria Line has now REOPENED either side of Warren Street.

Move along.
posted by three blind mice at 6:48 AM on July 21, 2005


keijo: I think he was joking.
posted by Acey at 6:48 AM on July 21, 2005


Send me a photo of you actually hugging the rainbow.

Best i could do...
posted by Meccabilly at 6:49 AM on July 21, 2005


Repeatedly attacking the same targets is an Al Qaida signature. They also tend to throw everything they've got into the intial attack, to take advantage of surprise and maintain security.

There are four levels to terrorist incidents:
minor - ten or less casualties
serious - 100 or less casualties and responders can reach most victims within an hour.
mass casualty - 100+ casualties and responders have reached most victims within 24 hours
catastrophic - 100+ victims and responders are unable to reach most victims for more than 24 hours.

The classifications and terms vary a little from one place to another, but the general distinctions are widely understood.

This looks like a minor incident, thank goodness. Patience, first reports are often noisy and garbled.
posted by warbaby at 6:49 AM on July 21, 2005


LAMEST. TERRORISM. EVER.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 6:51 AM on July 21, 2005


Well, perhaps ever since the sarin attacks carried out by Am Shirko members on the Tokyo subway system, the moon suit is de rigueur for some first responders...just to be on the cautious side of operations.

Your mention of the London Olympics, Ninja, could very well be the prime german thread running through tying together the activities of the past two weeks:But is important to sort it all out first before we know who and why...Taking the comments under consideration I have to agree that a rush to hypothesis is quite counter-productive.

posted by Dunvegan at 6:51 AM on July 21, 2005


Guys, I heard there was a bombing in Iraq yesterday. One where people died. I hope no one was hurt. I was going to make a FPP about it, but then I remember people only give a fuck when things like this happen in first world countries.
posted by chunking express at 6:51 AM on July 21, 2005



LAMEST. TERRORISM. EVER.

Aparently there has been one injury.... One of the bombers...

These new guys suck compared to the old lot....
posted by Meccabilly at 6:52 AM on July 21, 2005


Acey: wasn't really commenting on that, just reporting what the police team just said, especially since someone asked.

Blair will now speak at 3.15pm, after the Cobra (emergency committee) meeting.
posted by keijo at 6:53 AM on July 21, 2005


I was going to make a FPP about it, but then I remember people only give a fuck when things like this happen in first world countries.

Basically.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 6:53 AM on July 21, 2005


*But is important to sort it all out first before westart assigning the who and why*...I really need that cuppa, now.
posted by Dunvegan at 6:54 AM on July 21, 2005


warbaby: Repeatedly attacking the same targets is an Al Qaida signature.

Are you serious? This clearly isn't organised terrorism like the government would have you believe. This really isn't some 'cell' of highly trained operatives, it's a bunch of thugs that think they can blow themselves up for what they believe in.
posted by Acey at 6:56 AM on July 21, 2005


Latest stuff being discussed on BBC News 22 (BBC rolling news channel) is that they were nail bombs, the detonators went off, but the main explosive charges failed to ignite. If this is true, we only dodged the bullet because the bomb-makers botched their work: it could have been just as bad as 7/7.
posted by cstross at 6:56 AM on July 21, 2005


Anybody got a link to the "detonators only, no ignition" report above?

If this is what happened, it suggests improvised (homemade) materials (either detonators or secondary charge). Wait for it....
posted by warbaby at 6:56 AM on July 21, 2005


What I mean is, I don't think that Osama is in any sense masterminding things like this. Inspiring, maybe.
posted by Acey at 6:57 AM on July 21, 2005


Guys, I heard there was a bombing in Iraq yesterday. One where people died. I hope no one was hurt. I was going to make a FPP about it, but then I remember people only give a fuck when things like this happen in first world countries.

There's been a series of letters to the editor regarding in the commuter freebie paper in DC, one with the following gist:

News folks report on what's new and unusual. Suicide bomb attacks aren't unusual in Iraq, but they're fairly freaking unusual in London. Can't expect every event to get equal coverage.
posted by heydanno at 6:57 AM on July 21, 2005


Islam as a culture club is a total dive.
posted by The Jesse Helms at 6:59 AM on July 21, 2005


BBC reporters' blog
posted by CunningLinguist at 7:01 AM on July 21, 2005


Good luck fixing that. Send me a photo of you actually hugging the rainbow
actually, hugging rainbows would work better at fixing this than all the patriot acts and terrorism laws do. this so-called "war on terror" is only creating more terrorists, at the cost of good citizens losing rights, and good soldiers losing life and limbs.
posted by TechnoLustLuddite at 7:02 AM on July 21, 2005


Fuck you Flashboy. I lost a friend two weeks ago in the charming and witty original. I hope when you go, you are alone and in the wreck of a car.
posted by jackiemcghee at 7:03 AM on July 21, 2005


Acey, you're right at 6:57. Al Qaida has been using "disposable franchises" of one-time amateurs for a lot of attacks. They lose a cell with each attack, but protect the case officers. There's probably a case officer or two who've already split. There may also be "minders" who accompany the bombers to their start point.

The shoe bomber flopped in a similar way to this fandango, but coordinating multiple simultaneous attacks still requires some sort of infrastructure (i.e. people involved who try to get away).
posted by warbaby at 7:04 AM on July 21, 2005


Can't expect every event to get equal coverage.

That's where he's wrong - I do expect every event (of an equal magnitude) to get equal coverage, and so should anyone that has a thirst for knowledge, this selective shit is really starting to bore the pants of me.

The job of the press is to inform, not prioritise news events.
posted by twistedonion at 7:04 AM on July 21, 2005


Guys, I heard there was a bombing in Iraq yesterday. One where people died. I hope no one was hurt. I was going to make a FPP about it, but then I remember people only give a fuck when things like this happen in first world countries.

ZING

But seriously, I would care more about the dead in Iraq If I LIVED in Iraq... but I don't, and London is closer to where I live, been there several times and have friends who live there as well.

It's true we as westerners don't care enough about the deaths in Iraq; or that Bush and Company's actions have killed more people than the number Saddam is on trial for... If we did there would be a bloody revolution against our Despotic governments.

BUT we could care less as long as McDonalds is on every corner and we can watch Must See TV. I eat McDonalds and watch shitty TV. I am subdued.

Sad all around.
posted by Livewire Confusion at 7:05 AM on July 21, 2005


LAMEST. TERRORISM. EVER.

Who says it's terrorism? It could very well be a bad joke.

(In which case Kerry's campaign would still have been a worse joke.)
posted by three blind mice at 7:06 AM on July 21, 2005


and I should add that part of the problem should not be up for discussion now, when people my be dead.
posted by Livewire Confusion at 7:07 AM on July 21, 2005


I suppose if there were as sizeable amount of MeFites in Iraq or with friends and relatives in Iraq as they are in London we would see more commentary here as well. Not that there hasn't been in a more generalised sense.

Funny seeing John Howard of Australia who was having (or supposed to have) a meeting with Blair this afternoon kind of running from Downing Street ("we'll get back to you John, got something more important to do now").
posted by keijo at 7:08 AM on July 21, 2005


Last I heard of nailbomb incidents in the UK, they involved this guy (a white Neo-Nazi, fwiw), and they've been deployed as popular mass-murder/suicide weapons on the West Bank as well.
posted by dhoyt at 7:08 AM on July 21, 2005


cstross: BBC News 22

actually its News 24... as in 24 hours a day... mind you, who watches between 3am and 5am - could save licence payers money....

it could have been just as bad as 7/7.

Don't call it that... London bombings is fine.
posted by Meccabilly at 7:08 AM on July 21, 2005


I guess the good part in this botched attempt (if that is what it proves to be) is that we get the culprits and maybe find out something from them, as normally they take themselves with the bombs.
posted by Acey at 7:09 AM on July 21, 2005


heydanno, I realize it's just not 'news' anymore when it happens in Iraq. Still, the indifference shown to what goes on in the East is a little bit depressing, no? Just a bit?

By not giving the deaths in Iraq equal coverage, the Western media has decided they aren't important, whether this was their intention.
posted by chunking express at 7:10 AM on July 21, 2005


maybe find out something from them,

Presumably not how to make effective bombs...
posted by Meccabilly at 7:10 AM on July 21, 2005


*Warning tin foil hat stuff follows, if you don't like idle speculation based on little or no facts please move on to the next post.*
I wonder if there was some covert operation to sell (or somehow make availble) inert High Explosives to suspicious entities. This would give you information on who bought the explosives, who used the explosives, and what they were used for. Not only that, if it was person-born, you most likely would have the would-be suicide bomber still around for interrogation. Not to mention the propaganda value of the appearance of ineptness of the terrorists. It also has the byproduct of now forcing the terrorists to more extensively test their explosives, and large booms are kinda noticable and make working in secret more difficult. I see lots of gain, and very little downside.
*tinfoil hat has now been removed*
posted by forforf at 7:11 AM on July 21, 2005


A reporter for BBC 5 Live is reporting that a section of Putney Hill has been cordoned off while a Number 37 bus is being investigated for a suspect package. Could end up being nothing.

I would find it helpful if we kept the politically charged debate for a later thread. Those of us just trying to get the latest information don't want to have to wade through flame wars. Cheers.
posted by LondonYank at 7:11 AM on July 21, 2005


By not giving the deaths in Iraq equal coverage, the Western media has decided they aren't important,

In related news I hear Extras starts on BBC2 tonight.

What do you mean not related?
posted by Meccabilly at 7:12 AM on July 21, 2005


Fuck you Flashboy. I lost a friend two weeks ago in the charming and witty original.

Flash is a Londoner, and is displaying a dry and stoic English humour.

I hope when you go, you are alone and in the wreck of a car.

Funny!
posted by the quidnunc kid at 7:14 AM on July 21, 2005


So deaths in Iraq get about the same coverage as Extras on the BBC? Is there some point you are trying to make? I'm not so bright, so please spell it out more clearly.
posted by chunking express at 7:15 AM on July 21, 2005


*settles down for the chase scene*
posted by warbaby at 7:15 AM on July 21, 2005


The job of the press is to inform, not prioritise news events.

This of course would explain the preponderance of "cat stuck up tree" stories on the evening news -- merely inform, don't prioritize! Maybe if the media did a BETTER job of prioritizing (say, the effect of gov't policies on the average American over the antics of celebrities) we'd be better informed by default. :)

-from an American in London, unfortunately glued to the web waiting to see what ACTUALLY happened
posted by fotzepolitic at 7:15 AM on July 21, 2005


CE and CD...the near daily, ceaseless suicide bombing are one of the most demoralizing, least-reported concequence of our "Mission Accomplished" in that country.

About every day: "another two dozen dead in Iraqi suicide bomber attack"...and every week..."another major suicide bombing in Baghad (60, 70, 80, 90.)" Many many civilian deaths.

The idea that "fighting terrorism" and "taking it to the terrorists' means picking a country (like a boxing ring outside our borders) where destabilization creates a atmosphere of random violence and terror for their citizens is less than giving a good showing in leadership in democracy evangelism.

The suicide bombings seem to be the tertiary un-reported war in Iraq.
posted by Dunvegan at 7:16 AM on July 21, 2005


Odd how people are saying "detonator" when I bet not one of them could tell the difference between a detonator and a firecracker.

Sad how UBL can create a buzz of fear without doing anything at all.

Oooga boooga!
posted by three blind mice at 7:18 AM on July 21, 2005



So deaths in Iraq get about the same coverage as Extras on the BBC? Is there some point you are trying to make? I'm not so bright, so please spell it out more clearly.

I really wasn't making any sort of point.. I'm actually really looking forward to Extras.. :)

What do you mean 'shut up'?
posted by Meccabilly at 7:19 AM on July 21, 2005


Sad how UBL can create a buzz of fear without doing anything at all.

Or even have any link to any of it.
posted by Meccabilly at 7:20 AM on July 21, 2005


Here in Seattle the morning bus driver piped up out of nowhere that he's now expected to search his bus for unusual packages now and getting off the bus in Bellevue I caught sight of a Belluve police officer in sunglasses nervously fingering his weapon as he was scanning the passengers getting off the bus. Creepy.
Wish these people would just get over this crap and just get on with their lives.
We're in 'murica, this stuff only happens in the movies. Or over across the pond where 'muricans notoriosly play the 'see no, hear no, speak much' game.
posted by mk1gti at 7:20 AM on July 21, 2005


Well that's just tough shite, the quidnunc kid. He may be being stoic but he's being an arsehole too.
posted by jackiemcghee at 7:20 AM on July 21, 2005


Aparently there has been one injury.... One of the bombers...

These new guys suck compared to the old lot....
posted by Meccabilly at 6:52 AM PST on July 21

-------------------

It's not like you get many suicide bombers back for a second run. The highly motivated and capable blow themselves up, then the less capable... and then you end up with ShoeBombers who are incapable to blowing their feet off. They may be motivated, but they lack a certain something.

And from the article...

""The man who was holding the rucksack looked extremely dismayed."

I'll just BET he did. Because before the day is up, he's going to be spilling his guts instead of splattering them all over.

BTW, if this turns out to be some bizzare anti-war performance art project, it's in damn bad taste.

JB
posted by JB71 at 7:21 AM on July 21, 2005


Obviously suicide bombs were passé, what we're seeing now is an entirely new terrorist threat: the self-wounding fizzle.
posted by snarfodox at 7:21 AM on July 21, 2005


Some BBC first-hand accounts

Dunvegan, et al: any way you could you save the sermonizing for another thread?
posted by dhoyt at 7:22 AM on July 21, 2005


Bollocks to this thread.

Metafilter: Woefully uninformed debate*

*cadged from the Onion's post-9/11 TV listings
posted by LondonYank at 7:23 AM on July 21, 2005


Strange headline on Channel 5: "Staff at London Hospital on lookout for man with wires in top" ?
posted by keijo at 7:23 AM on July 21, 2005


Latest on BBC News 24 (there, I fixed the typo): Blair is coming out of a COBRA meeting to give a press conference any minute now. University College Hospital is sealed off, armed police are inside, a memo circulating inside the hospital asks staff to be on the look out for a tall man, roughly 6'2", with "wires protruding from his top", and there are rumours of a man spotted running from the scene of the Warren Street incident -- it is speculated that these are related and there's an ongoing event at UCH.
posted by cstross at 7:24 AM on July 21, 2005


BTW, if this turns out to be some bizzare anti-war performance art project, it's in damn bad taste.

Or if it turns out to be a new advertising campaign for Nike footwear.
posted by Meccabilly at 7:25 AM on July 21, 2005


mk1gti: Resham had a safe house in Bellevue. This has been expected for two years.
posted by warbaby at 7:25 AM on July 21, 2005


"Everyone's being told to get off the phone- cops say they're worried that phones will detonate the undetonated bombs"

Says someone who has obviously never tried to use a mobile phone on the underground.
posted by walrus at 7:26 AM on July 21, 2005


"Staff at London Hospital on lookout for man with wires in top"

Or women with wires in bra maybe? ok.. maybe not....
posted by Meccabilly at 7:26 AM on July 21, 2005


BBC News is reporting that a man has been arrested and cuffed at Whitehall.
posted by maudlin at 7:26 AM on July 21, 2005


mk1gti: Resham had a safe house in Bellevue. This has been expected for two years
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, he did. This was before 'increased security' though.
I feel much safer knowing paranoid, underpaid, poorly trained and equipped rednecks are watching out for my personal safety.
posted by mk1gti at 7:27 AM on July 21, 2005


Man arrested running toward Downing St.
posted by fire&wings at 7:29 AM on July 21, 2005


The man arrrested at Whitehall was stopped directly across from the Ministry of Defense buliding. The reporter can't tell if he was carrying anything, but he didn't appear to have anything with him.
posted by maudlin at 7:30 AM on July 21, 2005


Have we got anything on Flickr yet?
posted by warbaby at 7:32 AM on July 21, 2005


The BBC's Andrew Winstanley said devices had been found but appeared to have been dummies, containing no explosives.
posted by warbaby at 7:40 AM on July 21, 2005


mk1gti: You are being protected by urban sophisticates. Now if it was the King County Sheriff's department....
posted by warbaby at 7:41 AM on July 21, 2005


forfort wins?
posted by warbaby at 7:45 AM on July 21, 2005


Do you think it might be the same guys who squirted Tom Cruise a few weeks ago?
posted by biffa at 7:47 AM on July 21, 2005


How long until all Muslims are expelled from the country?
posted by eas98 at 7:50 AM on July 21, 2005


live video: usian cable news anchors drowning in oceans of their own jizz!
posted by quonsar at 7:54 AM on July 21, 2005


Both Vodafone and T-Mobile said they had not received any requests from authorities to prioritise traffic or to shut down any part of the mobile network.
posted by walrus at 7:54 AM on July 21, 2005


Do you think it might be the same guys who squirted Tom Cruise a few weeks ago?

Which ones? I'm sure lot's of guys squirted Tom in the last few weeks.

My thought is diversion. What is going on that this distracts from?
posted by Pollomacho at 7:54 AM on July 21, 2005


Is there any suggestion that Muslims are responsible for today's events? So far I haven't seen any.
posted by NeonSurge at 7:56 AM on July 21, 2005


My thought is diversion. What is going on that this distracts from?

Diverts us from the fact they've outlawed mushies.... sneaky bastards!
posted by twistedonion at 7:58 AM on July 21, 2005


eas98> How long until all Muslims are expelled from the country?

Bah. London weathered literally hundreds of IRA attacks. I doubt you'll see any kind of hysterical reaction to this. The folk from that little island aren't easily intimidated.
posted by snarfodox at 7:58 AM on July 21, 2005


Is there any suggestion that Muslims are responsible for today's events? So far I haven't seen any.

Only comment I've heard along those lines was on the Guardian newsblog:
"Things remain tense around central London. Sky News reports that University College Hospital has issued an internal memo asking them to look out for a black, possibly Asian man, around 6ft 2ins tall, with wires protruding from a hole in his blue top."
posted by anagrama at 8:00 AM on July 21, 2005


Ooooh! If MI-5 pulled the gypsy switch on an explosives stash, this is going to be FUN!

*meditates on unhealthy enthusiasm*
posted by warbaby at 8:01 AM on July 21, 2005


live video: usian cable news anchors drowning in oceans of their own jizz!

Really, this is the cable news networks' wet dream. Big big story, without the icky feeling of delighting in the deaths of others.
posted by Pollomacho at 8:02 AM on July 21, 2005


Is there any suggestion that Muslims are responsible for today's events?

It would hardly be difficult to make any number of suggestions along those lines based on the recent history of Muslim radicals + targeting civilians all over the world with homemade bombs. If you're asking if there's any evidence Muslims are responsible, the answer is no.
posted by dhoyt at 8:05 AM on July 21, 2005


Bombs or no bombs, it's terrorism. Same result, just fewer lost lives.
posted by tomplus2 at 8:06 AM on July 21, 2005


This really isn't some 'cell' of highly trained operatives, it's a bunch of thugs that think they can blow themselves up for what they believe in.

No, that won't work at all. See, if it's a tight group of highly trained operatives, that would indicate a high level of sophistication necessary, when in fact any average Joe off the street could do this. Plus, as long as we keep thinking there's some big, bad organization that's running things, people will have a unified target for their derision (easier to remember), while holding on to the belief that if we can just take this one group out, we'll win and it will all be over.

The public needs its Emmanual Goldstein.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 8:10 AM on July 21, 2005


This is, weirdly, a complete gift for the police. The big problem in the previous investigation was finding the bombmaker and the financier - tricky to ask people who gave them the money when those people have blown themselves up. But now there are four guys running around town who, unhappily for them, aren't as dead as they thought they'd be. Grab them, and you've got a shedload of leads to work off. That and the forensics from the unexploded bombs.
posted by DangerIsMyMiddleName at 8:11 AM on July 21, 2005


Could we perhaps keep this thread for actual bombing info, rather than politics?
posted by unreason at 8:12 AM on July 21, 2005


No, tomplus2. This is gonna be a win for the good guys. They're "dismayed" and running like hell. Classical comedy instead of tragedy. A Roadrunner cartoon, British style. The 'cousins" are probably having conniptions of jealousy.

This is good.
posted by warbaby at 8:12 AM on July 21, 2005


But now there are four guys running around town who, unhappily for them, aren't as dead as they thought they'd be.

Just to clarify, there was one guy from what I read, the rest were unattended bags, no?
posted by Pollomacho at 8:17 AM on July 21, 2005


Bollocks to this thread.
Metafilter: Woefully uninformed debate*
posted by LondonYank at 3:23 PM GMT on July 21 [!]

I am very sorry to say that I have to agree with this. For a third example:

Sad how UBL can create a buzz of fear without doing anything at all.

Can you please explain this comment? What has it do with anything?
posted by nthdegx at 8:24 AM on July 21, 2005


two runners: Shepard's Bush and Oval.
posted by warbaby at 8:25 AM on July 21, 2005


Anybody footage saw the footages BBC had of the police arresting the guy at Whitehall?

From the audio commentary, it seems that is the standard procedure in apprehending a suspected suicide bomber. I didn't quite get the "buddy system" where one police officer places his hand on the shoulder of the other, as they approach the suspect though. What's that for?
posted by slf at 8:26 AM on July 21, 2005


correction: three runners, two seen at Oval, one possibly detained.

One of the police officers earlier did tell me that as far as she understood it there was bang here at Oval, smoke and foam were seen coming from a bag and then two Asian men were seen running from the scene.


This police officer also did tell me that one of those men was detained at Embankment station, one of the Tube stations not too far from here.

I must also stress that this is just the report from one police officer, not from the central command here.
posted by warbaby at 8:28 AM on July 21, 2005


News reports are already talking in a reflective past tense. The Times: London's day of deja vu.
posted by nthdegx at 8:31 AM on July 21, 2005


"A search by armed police officers at University College Hospital ..."

"There were reports staff at University College Hospital (UCH) had been passed an internal memo asking them to look out for a black, possibly Asian man, around 6ft 2ins tall, with wires protruding from a hole in his blue top."
posted by nthdegx at 8:35 AM on July 21, 2005


warbaby's right ... the bombers screwed this operation up and it's going to cost their organization dearly ...
posted by pyramid termite at 8:36 AM on July 21, 2005


NPR mentioned a man being cornered at a hospital -- wonder if that matches this story:

Staff at a central London hospital were told Thursday to look out for an Asian or black man with wires protruding from his shirt after witnesses reported seeing someone of that description fleeing an Underground station hit by a small blast, British TV reports said.

In a memo to staff at University College hospital, officers asked employees to look for a black or Asian male, 6 feet 2 inches tall, wearing a blue top with a hole in the back and wires protruding from it, Sky News reported.

The British Broadcasting Corp. broadcast a similar report. The hospital, which is near Warren Street station in central London, could not be reached for immediate comment.

Earlier, armed police rushed into the hospital, witnesses reported.
posted by dhoyt at 8:36 AM on July 21, 2005


(Beaten by nthdegx!)
posted by dhoyt at 8:37 AM on July 21, 2005


warbaby, you're right. But I'm referring to some of the news reports that seem to be downplaying the attempt. This is as significant as if it had happened. Not in terms of FUD, but in terms of legal ramifications for the offenders.
posted by tomplus2 at 8:40 AM on July 21, 2005


"There were reports staff at University College Hospital (UCH) had been passed an internal memo asking them to look out for a black, possibly Asian man, around 6ft 2ins tall, with wires protruding from a hole in his blue top."

I for one welcome our new tall, black, possibly Asian, wire-laden overlords.
posted by dsquid at 8:41 AM on July 21, 2005


the bombers screwed this operation up and it's going to cost their organization dearly ...

Which organisation is that?
posted by Meccabilly at 8:42 AM on July 21, 2005


Which organisation is that?

If they follow in the footsteps of the last London bombers, that organization would be al-Qaeda according to police.
posted by dhoyt at 8:48 AM on July 21, 2005


If they follow in the footsteps of the last London bombers, that organization would be al-Qaeda according to police.

Read the article....

He is believed to be connected to a senior figure who took part in an al-Qaeda terror summit in Pakistan 16 months ago where a list of future targets was reportedly finalised.
....

While the police priority is to trace any bombers still at large, intelligence agencies are trying to confirm that al-Qaeda had a hand in the London attack.

I'm not saying that it aint the al-Qaeda boogie man responsible, just saying there's still no proof.
posted by twistedonion at 8:55 AM on July 21, 2005


NPR: police say the incident at the hospital is "over", without offering further explanation.
posted by dhoyt at 8:57 AM on July 21, 2005


...or anybody else with $50 to spend and an axe to grind.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 8:58 AM on July 21, 2005


There's been a couple of references to Cobra, so far (mostly in the context of Blair attending a Cobra committee, and the suchlike)... I thought that Cobra were international terrorists?!
posted by Chunder at 9:03 AM on July 21, 2005


Cobra?
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 9:11 AM on July 21, 2005


COBRA is the cabinet-level crisis group, named after the Cabinet Office Briefing Room A where they meet. They just met and I haven't seen a statement other than Blair says "be cool."

GI JOE is the US equivalent and they mostly play with dolls.

*Matt fixed the highlighting in preview!*
posted by warbaby at 9:16 AM on July 21, 2005


Cabinet Office Briefing Room A

They sometimes meet there. Hence the name. =P
posted by slf at 9:17 AM on July 21, 2005


The Guardian newsblog:
Members of the public reported problems on the tube lines hours before the attacks. Was there prior intelligence of possible attacks?
Huh? What's that all about?
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 9:30 AM on July 21, 2005


For the benefit of North Americans, here in the UK, "Asian" tends to refer to people of Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi/etc descent. (ie, the Asian subcontinent.)
posted by Marquis at 9:58 AM on July 21, 2005


Which organisation is that?

that will be discovered in a short while, i'm sure
posted by pyramid termite at 10:00 AM on July 21, 2005


BBC News is reporting that a man has been .... cuffed at Whitehall.
That's what I like to see, a return to good old-fashioned policing. Never did me any harm, I can tell you.
posted by Joeforking at 10:03 AM on July 21, 2005


ie, the Asian subcontinent.

When did Asia get demoted to a subcontinent?
posted by bshort at 10:10 AM on July 21, 2005


Subcontinent = the protruding bit to the south where India, Pakistan etc... are located.
posted by Artw at 10:12 AM on July 21, 2005


> with wires protruding from his shirt

Cool, my next Halloween costume.
posted by NewBornHippy at 10:13 AM on July 21, 2005


Members of the public reported problems on the tube lines hours before the attacks. Was there prior intelligence of possible attacks?

Huh? What's that all about?

There are problems on tube lines every day of the week - there's absolutely nothing unusual about that at all.

Really, today's events are about as small-fry as you can imagine. The end result is just further disruption to the transport system - but it's always disrupted, often a lot worse than this.
posted by influx at 10:29 AM on July 21, 2005


Subcontinent = the protruding bit to the south where India, Pakistan etc... are located.

Oh, right. The Indian Subcontinent.
posted by bshort at 11:29 AM on July 21, 2005


Metafilter: I for one welcome our new tall, black, possibly Asian, wire-laden overlords.
posted by rabble at 11:42 AM on July 21, 2005


Sidenote: Good news regarding the 7/7 bombing and its subsequent investigations:

Police in Pakistan say they have caught the man who may be the missing link to the London bombing, reports say.

British police investigating the terrorist attack have begun a worldwide hunt for Haroon Rashid Aswat, 30, a former aide to one of Britain's most militant Islamic clerics who they believe may have played a key role in the July 7 operation.

Aswat was a senior aide to Abu Hamza al-Masri, the blind, one-armed militant cleric who preached jihad until his arrest in April 2004.

A theory being pursued by Scotland Yard is that Aswat provided the four bombers with support for the co-ordinated London attacks, several senior intelligence and law enforcement officials said on Wednesday.

The Times reported yesterday the 30-year-old suspected mastermind was arrested during one of many raids on Islamic religious schools this week.

"We believe this man had a crucial part to play in what happened in London," it cited a senior Pakistani source as saying.
posted by dhoyt at 11:58 AM on July 21, 2005


what a total Aswat.
posted by quonsar at 12:08 PM on July 21, 2005


Meanwhile, NYPD will begin random searches of commuters' bags tomorrow.

Commissioner Kelly: "People don't consider any measures that you take for safety to be an inconvenience."
posted by Hlewagast at 12:11 PM on July 21, 2005


Well so far it seems there's one big difference between this "attack" and the previous succesful one

1. No kamikazes

At least 4 bombs not exploding ? Must be a systematic error or a deliberate decision not to have them detonate. How many bombs didn't explode in the first attack ? None that we know of.

These are either very poor imitators (which is bad but not as bad) or this was just a demo attempt to amplify the effect of the first attack.
posted by elpapacito at 12:11 PM on July 21, 2005


Deliberate decision not to have the bombs explode, but not necessarily the terrorists decision, eh?

*Beep-beep. Zooooom!*

Oooooh. Matt has the new preview button-thingy working....
posted by warbaby at 12:15 PM on July 21, 2005


It's not unknown for a penetrated terrorist cell to have their esplosives/weapons tampered with. Example being the IRA Hammersmith bridge bomb that failed to go off propely - turns out the explosives had been tampered with while they were stashed.

4 devices, none of which explode - does make one wonder.
posted by fingerbang at 12:28 PM on July 21, 2005


Just to clarify, there was one guy from what I read, the rest were unattended bags, no?

Eh, I guess someone put the bags there... unless things are more serious than we thought and the nasty people are training baggage in suicide destruction.
posted by penguin pie at 12:45 PM on July 21, 2005


Eh, I guess someone put the bags there

Yes, and then they walked (or ran) away from them, right? That is different from suicide bombers as I was trying to get a clarification about.

Now with context!

But now there are four guys running around town who, unhappily for them, aren't as dead as they thought they'd be.

Just to clarify, there was one guy from what I read, the rest were unattended bags, no?

See, four guys, not dead as intended, or was it one guy not dead as intended and three bags that were left behind by people who never intended to be dead?
posted by Pollomacho at 1:02 PM on July 21, 2005


Let's assume one infiltrates a cell (which is an hell of a job already I guess ? ) ; once you have determined they're in possession of explosives (which you must do otherwise how could you mess with them ) would you leave these people in circulation ? Unauthorized possession of significant quantity of explosive is quite a crime already I guess.

Additionally , tampering is A-OK, but you have to rest your hopes your wannabe terrorists will not decide to use something else or find something more devastating...too risky imho
posted by elpapacito at 2:52 PM on July 21, 2005


When you've switched out or jarked a stash, you have to "control" it - or you got biiiig trouble. Sounds like maybe the surveilance lost the guys (if they ever had them) or what?

Police have detained four, released two of them, no arrests, one of the remaining detained had nothing to do with the blasts, unclear what the last one is about.

Back to the chase...
posted by warbaby at 3:52 PM on July 21, 2005


Man shot 5 times on Tube:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4706787.stm
posted by LondonYank at 3:11 AM on July 22, 2005


Hmmmm. This could be read as supporting evidence that they failed to control bomb stash(es). Or not. Wait for it.
posted by warbaby at 7:30 AM on July 22, 2005


Pollomacho - live preview went to my head, I didn't read surrounding comments properly. Sorreee...
posted by penguin pie at 7:43 AM on July 22, 2005


I think they're writing D-notices (orders to the media to suppress stories.) This BBC story was rewritten to remove a quote saying the bombs contained "inert" material.

I'm speculating, but still haven't found evidence that rules out the "switch" hypothesis.
posted by warbaby at 7:46 AM on July 22, 2005


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