I hope the Chinese don't learn what widgets I use

July 25, 2005 10:16 AM

Yahoo! acquires Konfabulator.[via] Previously trial-ware accompanied by a $19.95 fee, Konfabulator Yahoo! Widgets will now be offered as a free download. What if you purchased it? They're offering a refund. (Get your widgets right here. Konfabulator previously discussed.)
posted by blendor (57 comments total)

Where's the refund thing? I don't see it on the homepage in any obvious place (I paid for it a few months back).
posted by mathowie at 10:20 AM on July 25, 2005

From the "they're offering a refund" link:

Now, we can currently hear the cries of all those people who've recently purchased Konfabulator. Fear not, people, for you will be given the gift of a refund if you purchased Konfabulator 2.0 or later. Revel in the glory of it.

I don't see any means of actually getting the refund, though.
posted by jperkins at 10:23 AM on July 25, 2005

Anyone familiar enough with the Konfabulator and Dashboard environments to say in what technical respects each is better or worse than the other (ignoring the Windows support)?
posted by Rothko at 10:25 AM on July 25, 2005

Refund info from the forum (4th response):

We're hoping to get the all processed by end of week. We may send an email out to all 2.0 customers letting them know the process, but it may just be easier to run them.


Arlo

posted by blendor at 10:28 AM on July 25, 2005

I don't know that I'll use it any more than I did when it was trial-ware, but I certainly can't complain about free stuff.
posted by smackfu at 10:31 AM on July 25, 2005

Oh wait, yes I can. How come the Photo Frame widget needs your Flickr password just to show photos?
posted by smackfu at 10:35 AM on July 25, 2005

Rothko, the biggest difference is that Konfabulator widgets are (generally) always visible; Dashboad widgets are (generally) only visible when you hit a key to toggle to the dashboard. If you're used to Konfabulator, this can make Dashboard feel a little crippled at first -- though I have to admit I now prefer the dashboard toggle; it's almost as quick and doesn't leave my screen as cluttered.

From an authoring perspective -- I've only tweaked existing widgets, never authored one from scratch in either environment -- Konfabulator widgets are much simpler to code, but Dashboard widgets seem to offer more functionality (and better eye candy effects).
posted by ook at 10:36 AM on July 25, 2005

Good, I like Konfabulator but couldn't see paying $20 for some nifty widgets. Isn't Konfabulator built into Tiger?
posted by fenriq at 10:37 AM on July 25, 2005

smackfu, that's so you can get a stream of your favorites and contacts. I had my contacts' photos running on my desktop for an hour or so today but had to shut it off after I kept interrupting my work to see who took a particular photo.

Rothko, I think Konfabulator's all done in javascript, while Dashboard is some sort of xml/html thing.
posted by mathowie at 10:38 AM on July 25, 2005

*grump* And here I bought my copy right before version 2 came out...
posted by Katemonkey at 10:39 AM on July 25, 2005

Cross platform?

It doesn't run on Linux, isn't free. If it's not free and if it doesn't run on Linux, it doesn't exist.

Bye bye Konfab-whatever, you won't be missed.
posted by NewBornHippy at 10:39 AM on July 25, 2005

ook - But even in the Windows version you get the option on most (all?) widgets to make them "Konspose only" - so effectively the same, I think (though I've had no experience with the Mac version).

smackfu - Really? I uninstalled and then reinstalled from the Yahoo! link (just to see if there was a difference), and besides the little message upfront congratulating themselves and talking about the Flickr integration, my widgets are behaving exactly the same (including picture frame). Although, I do notice that now there's an extra tab in the picture frame config that allows me to enter a Flickr user/pass -- but it's not requiring it.
posted by blendor at 10:41 AM on July 25, 2005

I have to say, I'm enjoying this little war between Google and Yahoo. Both companies can please continue to bribe me with free software and doodads. (see Google Earth, etc)
posted by selfnoise at 10:45 AM on July 25, 2005

Oh, I do want to use the Flickr integration, but it should only need a username, not the password. The photos are public, after all. Just kind of a half-assed implementation. The flickr screensaver is much better done.
posted by smackfu at 10:46 AM on July 25, 2005

It doesn't run on Linux, isn't free. If it's not free and if it doesn't run on Linux, it doesn't exist.

Tell that to the 90% of the PC market that runs on Windows...

If you develop end-user software, and you don't develop for Windows, you either A) don't want to make any money, or b) are a moron.
posted by SweetJesus at 10:48 AM on July 25, 2005

Gah, that widget gallery sucks--it tracks ratings and popularity but doesn't let you sort by them.
posted by Espy Gillespie at 10:50 AM on July 25, 2005

fenriq: Dashbord, not Konfabulator, is built into Tiger.
posted by piratebowling at 10:53 AM on July 25, 2005

I spent a while this morning looking at some widgets (for some reason, I always thought Konfabulator was OSX-only, so never paid attention). Some of them were cute, but I didn't see any that made me want to download and run some always-resident process. What am I missing? What are the greatest/coolest/most whizbangerriffic widgets?
posted by gleuschk at 10:54 AM on July 25, 2005

Developing Dashboard Widgets: "Based on Web Kit technologies, Dashboard Widgets are created using a mix of HTML, JavaScript, and CSS."
posted by kirkaracha at 10:56 AM on July 25, 2005

No particular axe to grind here -- just recall reading in Pirillos's column in CPU mag yesterday: "Konfabulator has [...] an extensive collection of sweet-smelling widgets, but each one sucks up an insane amount of system resources (making the utility completely unusable for an extended period of time)." So perhaps the point is moot.
posted by sighmoan at 11:00 AM on July 25, 2005

Rothko, I think Konfabulator's all done in javascript, while Dashboard is some sort of xml/html thing.

I think you have it the other way around, mathowie. I'd be really interested in hearing from people who've written Konfabulator and Dashboard widgets. Writing a Dashboard widget is hard work, but Dashboard widgets seem to give access to a lot of system functionality that Konfabulator sacrifices in lieu of cross-platform support.
posted by Rothko at 11:02 AM on July 25, 2005

If you develop end-user software, and you don't develop for Windows, you either A) don't want to make any money, or b) are a moron.

FWIW, you won't make money developing widgets, Windows or otherwise.
posted by Rothko at 11:03 AM on July 25, 2005

The title of this page is "I hope the Chinese don't learn what widgets I use." WTF?
posted by Plutor at 11:07 AM on July 25, 2005

Plutor: I think it's an oblique reference to that recent story about Yahoo helping the Chinese government nail somebody for freedom of expression (or whatever it was).
posted by teece at 11:15 AM on July 25, 2005

What are the greatest/coolest/most whizbangerriffic widgets?

Here are a few that I downloaded (plus I use PIM Overview and the aforementioned Picture Frame, both of which I believe are included with the install). In my perusing, I noticed a couple that could be useful if you're an RPG player.

The title of this page is "I hope the Chinese don't learn what widgets I use." WTF?
Ha, sorry - just a little nod to a recent post.
posted by blendor at 11:16 AM on July 25, 2005

What are the greatest/coolest/most whizbangerriffic widgets?

I've had weather, calendar, and the ToDo list widgets running for the past few months. The weather one is just to know how hot it is outside when I venture out and to see what the rest of the week looks like. The calendar comes in extremely handy when someone calls you up and asks if you're free on the 12th of next month. The ToDo list widget is like a tiny version of TaDaLists running on your desktop.
posted by mathowie at 11:25 AM on July 25, 2005

FWIW, you won't make money developing widgets, Windows or otherwise.

Tell that to the guys with the big check from Yahoo...
posted by SweetJesus at 11:37 AM on July 25, 2005

They're not developing widgets, they're developing an environment in which to run widgets. A bit different.
posted by Rothko at 11:38 AM on July 25, 2005

They're not developing widgets, they're developing an environment in which to run widgets. A bit different.

Well, that's my point. It's more than possible to make money, but if you don't support Windows, you're cutting off your own foot.^*

At least at the end-user level...
posted by SweetJesus at 11:46 AM on July 25, 2005

I'm enjoying this little war between Google and Yahoo

I actually assumed this was a volley in the war between Yahoo! and Microsoft. If Yahoo! can beat Microsoft at acquiring/"innovating" competing technologies and offering them for free, it puts an interesting spin on ownership of the desktop.
posted by VulcanMike at 11:47 AM on July 25, 2005

It doesn't run on Linux, isn't free. If it's not free and if it doesn't run on Linux, it doesn't exist.

LOL. Look, a Linux nerd! Shouldn't you be on Slashdot?
posted by keswick at 11:51 AM on July 25, 2005

SweetJesus, you're not necessarily cutting off your foot by not developing for Windows. You're just limiting the potential audience for your app or widget.

piratebowling, yeah, it is indeed Dashboard but I'm pretty sure its an Apple re-branding of Konfabulator.

I will probably download this new free version and start getting my widgets back in order. But I do like that they can not be in view at all times, that kind of irritated me.
posted by fenriq at 11:58 AM on July 25, 2005

I'm pretty sure its an Apple re-branding of Konfabulator.

No, it's just an Apple knock-off of Konfabulator.

I ran Konfabulator for about a week on my Windows box. It was kind of cool, but there were two things that kept annoying me:

1. It crashed fairly often until I identified the offending widget. Sure, it's the widget's fault, but a JavaScript shouldn't be able to bring down the whole environment, just that widget.

2. Watching it in a process viewer indicated that it was constantly taking about 5% of my CPU time even when it wasn't being shown, and I decided that was too much.
posted by grouse at 12:20 PM on July 25, 2005

fenriq: I'm pretty sure its an Apple re-branding of Konfabulator.

I love how when Microsoft does anything, people assume they've copied someone else, but when Apple flat out steals an idea everyone assumes they've acted fairly.
posted by null terminated at 12:25 PM on July 25, 2005

Thanks, blendor. I was just thinking how much I wanted a good desktop clock...

selfnoise writes "I have to say, I'm enjoying this little war between Google and Yahoo."

VulcanMike writes "I actually assumed this was a volley in the war between Yahoo! and Microsoft."

Ain't it great...remember Gas Wars?
posted by taosbat at 12:31 PM on July 25, 2005

Isn't there something a lot like this on KDE? I may just have gotten that impression from Konfabulator's name, I guess.
posted by kenko at 12:52 PM on July 25, 2005

If you develop end-user software, and you don't develop for Windows, you either A) don't want to make any money, or b) are a moron.

This guy doesn't think so. Long interview but IMHO worth the time.

From the article:

"The two types of Windows users I've identified at my café are:

1. I use Windows to run Word and Excel and browse the web (and read e-mail in my web browser),
and

2. I'm a programmer and I spend all my time in a Windows IDE or hacking around with my system.

The problem is that market (a) already has all the software they think they'll ever need, and clearly isn't into looking beyond what they already have or they'd have noticed they could do all that they currently do, and more, but much easier, on a Mac. And market (b) is too small for me to aim any software at it."
posted by kika at 12:56 PM on July 25, 2005

Wow. After reading that interview, I realize you're right.

Let's add:

3. I have incredibly elitist, pretentious ideas about what everyone needs and I'm so attached to them that I think they'll function as a business model.
posted by selfnoise at 1:15 PM on July 25, 2005

Well, let just say that I would buy a copy of Delicious Library right now for forty bucks, but they don't make it for Windows because.... there is no market for it? I'd wager there are more people like me than A or B.

It's laziness, and ideology twisted into reason. His ideas all seem to be cherry-picked to support his "gut feeling". Windows machines get "viruses after 10 seconds of use"? People will use WINE instead of Windows to play games, because WINE is just so much simpler? And, my personal fav, people won't use Windows because "Windows sucks dogs and everyone knows it.".

Dude's a bit of a zealot, but he could have my 40 bucks if he just opened up to 95% of the market he's ignoring.
posted by SweetJesus at 1:32 PM on July 25, 2005

> LOL. Look, a Linux nerd! Shouldn't you be on Slashdot?

What makes you think I'm a nerd? Because I run Linux? So if you're running Windows I should assume that you're a clueless AOL sucker and if you're running OSX a pretentious metrosexual happy to be worthy of buying the Apple brand?

Update your stereotypes. I run Linux because free software it is the right alternative for a lot of reasons: ethical, thechnical and economical for starters.

More over, it does what I need it to do and does it reliably and securely.
posted by NewBornHippy at 2:37 PM on July 25, 2005

Wow! Tooooooo cooooool! Look at all those cool little do-dads that do something that I can get for free! What a great post! Thank you!

Oh...I almost forgot: tell me again, why do I need these?
posted by TheStorm at 2:52 PM on July 25, 2005

Because they're shiny.

OBEY THE SHINY!
posted by selfnoise at 2:58 PM on July 25, 2005

Update your stereotypes.

I'm too cheap to update. Do you have a bit torrent?
posted by Rothko at 3:06 PM on July 25, 2005

So, in summary: Mac users hate on Linux users. Linux users hate on Mac users. Windows users just don't spend all that much time thinking about their operating system.

I think I get it now.
posted by selfnoise at 3:42 PM on July 25, 2005

Dashboard is definitely not an Apple re-branding of Konfabulator; its a "re-implementation". When Apple announced that it would be in Tiger, there were screams throughout the land about how they were "ripping off the Konfabulator guys".

John Gruber's excellent weblog entry on the subject
posted by mrbill at 3:47 PM on July 25, 2005

What makes you think I'm a nerd? Because I run Linux? So if you're running Windows I should assume that you're a clueless AOL sucker and if you're running OSX a pretentious metrosexual happy to be worthy of buying the Apple brand?

Mostly, it's the constant whining by linux users for attention when the piece of flaming crap OS with a million different version that break 10,000,000 different ways when you make one configuration change doesn't receive the recognition that it 'deserves' as an obscure hobbyist OS that has somehow deluded some businesses into thinking that it's something to build their entire profit model on.

It's nice for doing a little wardriving, or maybe playing tuxracer, but even an ibook is leaps and bounds better for that job.
posted by angry modem at 4:04 PM on July 25, 2005

I sit corrected, I poked around a bit and found that Apple did, indeed and as has been noted above, take the Konfabulator idea and morph into the Dashboard. Pretty blatantly too.

That's lame and I hope the guys who did invent Konfabulator make a pile of money off of the theft of their IP.

And I am not a pretentious metrosexual happy to be worthy of the Apple brand. I'm too lazy to be a metrosexual, they shave on the weekends and shower too, suckers. But I am too smart to use an OS like XP that effectively sends computers on the internet buck naked with big signs saying "Exploit me" all over them. I like my Powerbooks for a whole lot of reasons and not just because I get to laugh at XP users freaking out over the latest virus/worm/spyware that's taken over their machine.
posted by fenriq at 4:57 PM on July 25, 2005

That's lame and I hope the guys who did invent Konfabulator make a pile of money off of the theft of their IP.

FWIW, from what I can tell from reading the developer documentation, and having written a widget from scratch, the underlying mechanisms and some functionality are entirely different with Dashboard. The IP theft complaints are somewhat misplaced.
posted by Rothko at 6:11 PM on July 25, 2005

> Mostly, it's the constant whining by linux users for attention

No -- I just called BS at their claim their software being cross platform. HTML is crossplatform. Flash is crossplatform. Javascript is cross platform. Their stuff is not. And if their stuff was freesoftware, it would have been even better for a lot of obvious reasons (the first one is that it would have been made crossplatform fairly rapidly.)

> obscure hobbyist OS that has somehow deluded some businesses into thinking that it's something to build their entire profit model on.

I suggest you do yourself a favor and go visit a data center. After that you'll be able to utter educated comments on the matter.
posted by NewBornHippy at 7:18 PM on July 25, 2005

I like stuff.
posted by dirigibleman at 9:49 PM on July 25, 2005

An issue of MacWorld that came out shortly after the first announcement of Dashboard and widgets or gadgets or geegaws or what-have-you in Tiger stated that Apple had approached the Konfabulator folks to talk buyout and were rebuffed. If so, why not develop their own native, stronger engineered version?
posted by Dreama at 11:07 PM on July 25, 2005

everyone lol @ newbornhippy! HAHAHAHAHA fuckin nerdzo
posted by Satapher at 11:11 PM on July 25, 2005

What's a "data center"? Seriously. Google shows me all sorts of space shit and I'm not into the space shit.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 6:47 AM on July 26, 2005

obscure hobbyist OS that has somehow deluded some businesses into thinking that it's something to build their entire profit model on.

The stupidity is strong in this one...
posted by SweetJesus at 7:04 AM on July 26, 2005

as an obscure hobbyist OS that has somehow deluded some businesses into thinking that it's something to build their entire profit model on.

LOL. Me and lots of people I know have made some not-inconsiderable bank because of linux. There are certain things that are possible on a linux box that are not nearly as feasible on either Windows machines or Macs.

I'm just glad I don't work for you!

Kevin: a "data center" is one of those big 'ol rooms with thousands of servers stacked up in lockers. Visiting them is always a treat for a nerd like me, but I don't have to work there every day, either.
posted by sonofsamiam at 8:02 AM on July 26, 2005

There are certain things that are possible on a linux box that are not nearly as feasible on either Windows machines or Macs.

Eh? My Mac is a UNIX box, as is my Linux machine.. I can't think of anything I can do on the Linux box that I can't duplicate on the Mac.. The Mac is just BSD-based and has a better GUI.
posted by mrbill at 1:39 PM on July 26, 2005

Here's a Metafilter Widget. Someone had to do it.
posted by grahamwell at 11:14 AM on July 30, 2005