Comments on: Bet Apple couldn't do anything this cool.

Bet Apple couldn't do anything this cool.

seanyboy — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 08:23:10 -0800

Microsoft Start (version 3) is the Web 2.0 application we've all been waiting for. Obviously, it was created by Microsoft. Search Engine and Syndication from one easily configurable screen. In the future, everyone will have this as their home page.

By: OmieWise

OmieWise — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 08:25:33 -0800

Come on, this is just a response to the MacMouse post below, right? It's certainly as Blue as that one is. I like best that the MacMouse is at the top of the Endgadget feed on the page.

By: jaksoul

jaksoul — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 08:28:08 -0800

Isn't this just a slightly ugly version of google.com/ig, which has been round for a month or so ? (sorry to be snarky)

By: Rothko

Rothko — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 08:30:06 -0800

In the future, everyone will have this as their home page. Can the Microsofties here please add the "batshitinsane" tag when they post this kind of nonsense? k thx

By: smackfu

smackfu — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 08:30:49 -0800

So the default layout includes boingboing, which today has a headline of "New spray laminates dog turds so they don't squish when you scoop". Nicely done.

By: DelusionsofGrandeur

DelusionsofGrandeur — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 08:31:48 -0800

seanyboy needs to take a chill-pill

By: dios

dios — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 08:32:55 -0800

So the default layout includes boingboing Sounds like Metafitler.

By: seanyboy

seanyboy — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 08:33:30 -0800

It was a response to the iPost, but I think it's a great piece of web software anyway. Also, it is sort of the same as google/ig, but I think it's better. It looks nicer (to me) and it seems to do more in an easier way. Only being beta-v3, there are a couple of rough edges, but it certainly shows promise.

By: NinjaPirate

NinjaPirate — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 08:35:40 -0800

I get a text box and a button. And nothing more. Thanks MS, but I can do it myself. Next time, ask what year it is before you start coding. *throws hands in air, exasperated, slightly camp*

By: herting

herting — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 08:36:10 -0800

jaksoul's link was supposed to guide you here Honestly, I don't get what puts MS Start higher than the google offering. Start certainly is an ugly little beast.

By: dios

dios — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 08:37:33 -0800

As I don't know enough about l33t web technology, can someone tell me what the difference between this and the my.yahoo page which has been around for several years? Is there some new feature that I'm not seeing? Does Web 2.0 mean anything other than a label?

By: seanyboy

seanyboy — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 08:41:08 -0800

It does the same, but it's smoother. Web 2.0 to me means that it uses AJAX (or something like AJAX). They both do sort of the same thing, but Google Maps is web 2.0 and Multimap is web 1.0

By: caddis

caddis — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 08:48:38 -0800

It is not letting me add stock quotes (using FireFox). It seems kind of interesting, but I doubt it will become my home page.

By: twistedonion

twistedonion — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 08:49:09 -0800

Does Web 2.0 mean anything other than a label? Not really. There's a load of hype about Ajax these days which allows for live updating of objects on your webpage - see the way you can drag boxes about and update your profile instantly and without having to hit submit buttons all the time... that's web 2.0. wooohooo! So, yeah, it's a wee bit different from my.yahoo at the moment but it really won't be long before this kind of interactivity is the norm.

By: Rothko

Rothko — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 08:57:52 -0800

I'm using Safari and all I see is a search field. I guess this is how Microsoft software engineers write ECMA-compliant Ajax search engines?

By: influx

influx — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 08:58:47 -0800

I have no idea what that link is supposed to be. It appears to be a box and button entrypoint to MSN. I assume that this is some IE-only garbage, and therefore worthless.

By: riffola

riffola — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 08:59:17 -0800

Isn't this just a slightly ugly version of google.com/ig, which has been round for a month or so ? (sorry to be snarky) It's older than Google's IG, they just updated it, and in my opinion it looks better, too bad the search bar uses MSN, if one could change that, then it would be the best offering yet. Google's IG is the worse of the top 3 search engine run user customizable pages. My Yahoo is probably the best.

By: derbs

derbs — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:00:54 -0800

if you look at the source they've had to use a hack to get IE to show pngs properly. Haha!

By: smackfu

smackfu — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:01:56 -0800

It works fine for me in Firefox (except that the Boingboing links don't have a heading.)

By: keswick

keswick — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:03:51 -0800

So the default layout includes boingboing Sounds like Metafitler. Oh, SNAP!

By: Rothko

Rothko — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:04:03 -0800

I assume that this is some IE-only garbage, and therefore worthless. This is the conclusion I've reached. Looks like seanboy lost his bet. Apple's mouse is much cooler than this useless piece of trash.

By: kirkaracha

kirkaracha — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:08:05 -0800

So Web 2.0 is different than Internet 2.

By: NinjaPirate

NinjaPirate — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:08:19 -0800

I note that "cooler" is relative

By: Mephistopheles

Mephistopheles — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:10:10 -0800

Personally, Web 2.0 for me was when I started growing hair in strange places and met The Hun.

By: seanyboy

seanyboy — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:14:02 -0800

Rothko you Donkey: Show me where I made my bet, and some objective measure of how I "lost" it and I'll agree with you. You can't. I didn't make a bet. Ahhhh. I see. Needless to say I've used start with Firefox and it works fine. I'm guessing that you leet-freaks are using some text based browser in order to belittle Microsoft. Congrats. It worked. Here's a beard and an Open Source "Happiness Drink".

By: cmonkey

cmonkey — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:14:35 -0800

Apple's mouse is much cooler than this useless piece of trash. Nah, they're both equally lame.

By: dvdgee

dvdgee — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:17:32 -0800

oh come now. the kneejerk anti-MS posts in this thread are somewhat pathetic. Yep, this is just like google.com/ig, but the interaction is definitely somewhat smoother. as for "ugly", compared to what? again, very similar to google/ig in it's bare-bones look, although actually a bit cleaner looking. The animation on the start.com page is far smoother on my machine (xp sp1, 900mhz, firefox) than clicking on the "add content" button on google/ig. ok, so i just clicked on "add a feed" in start.com, and yep... only a very devoted mother could say that's not ugly. lighten up the dropshadow and border, however, and it's good to go. clicking on feed links uses the same godawful visual style too. i also don't understand why the "pin" button exists when you click on an article in a module - clicking it adds a clone of the entire module to your layout (i expected it to pin the article). fair enough... there's definitely some work to be done. i suspect the motivation for this is to show off some of the features built into .Net 2.0. I'm glad they've added Firefox support for the drag/drop stuff at least, that wasn't in beta 1.

By: signal

signal — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:17:57 -0800

dios: “Does Web 2.0 mean anything other than a label?” web 2.0 is a slightly-annoying alternate label for the slightly-annoyingly named “semantic web”, i.e.: one where there are meaning-driven relationships between things. Its present form mainly consists of: separating content from presentation (i.a.: CSS), machine-readable formats (XML, etc.), re-mixing of information (RSS, aggregators, googlemap-mashups) and user-created links between information (del.icio.us, trackback), etc.

By: ancientgower

ancientgower — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:19:13 -0800

'Tis a silly place. ::rides away::

By: twistedonion

twistedonion — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:22:31 -0800

oh come now. the kneejerk anti-MS posts in this thread are somewhat pathetic. And the thread title wasn't a kneejerk anti-Apple post? This could be a great thread about wab 2.0 etc. but unfortunately the post title kinda spoiled that.

By: fenriq

fenriq — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:22:33 -0800

Nice work helping to drag MetaFilter into lame retaliatory FPP's seanyboy. In the future, I still won't be using anything Microsoft creates.

By: influx

influx — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:30:12 -0800

oh come now. the kneejerk anti-MS posts in this thread are somewhat pathetic. How is it a kneejerk reaction to not know what the fuck this is even supposed to be when it doesn't do anything in my main browser (Safari), crashes my secondary browser (Firefox), and doesn't do anything in Microsoft's very own browser either (mac IE)?

By: seanyboy

seanyboy — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:33:31 -0800

You're welcome fenriq. I've never abused The Commons on metafilter before. I feel guilty, but it was hellish fun. Just remember, this one is all about me, me, me!!!! twistedonion, dvdgee. Ach, you've made me feel bad now. I'm guessing that there will be future web 2.0 threads.

By: fungible

fungible — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:34:51 -0800

So....where's the hot chicks? Huh? I didn't think so.

By: Ynoxas

Ynoxas — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:35:35 -0800

Portals are teh new/old/new hottness.

By: Bugbread

Bugbread — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:37:43 -0800

Rothko : "I assume that this is some IE-only garbage, and therefore worthless. "This is the conclusion I've reached." Well, y'all reached the wrong conclusion then, because I'm seeing it fine on Firefox. Following up on what dios said, though, I gather this is the same as the "portal" thing that was all the rage in the late 90's, but coded differently under the hood, and with the ability to drag boxes around? Which means, for regular users, it's a portal with the ability to drag boxes around without hitting submit? There's gotta be more to it than that. (Of course, that's what I thought when I heard about the concept behind pets.com, and I was wrong). What am I missing that will make this (start.com OR google.ig) everyone's homepage in the future? In layman's terms, if possible, assuming that, as now, most people will be laymen in the future.

By: dvdgee

dvdgee — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:39:30 -0800

influx: ms managed to create something that works in firefox/win and crashes firefox/mac?? ahahahahaha, ok, you win. i've never seen that one happen before. i'm stunned.

By: stiggywigget

stiggywigget — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:39:41 -0800

As for Start... nicely done. Microsoft is learning something from Google. If it weren't for the flamebait approach this would be worth posting, seanyboy. Doesn't work in Safari, BTW.

By: gramschmidt

gramschmidt — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:40:30 -0800

Wow. No WMD and Bush is still gonna go to war. I can't fucking believe this. If he wins a second term, I'm moving to Englandia.

By: Bugbread

Bugbread — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:51:41 -0800

gramschmidt : "Wow. No WMD and Bush is still gonna go to war. I can't fucking believe this. If he wins a second term, I'm moving to Englandia." You're too generous. I think it should be "Holy fuck, gramschmidt, have you turned on the TV? A plane crashed into the World Trade Center!!"

By: yerfatma

yerfatma — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:52:55 -0800

Uhm, I think Ajax/ XMLHttpRequest is a wonderful thing and can be used to solve lots of HCI problems on the web. That being said, you don't have to use it for everything. Even the fucking footer links pop up a box and make you watch while it loads, as opposed to navigating me to a page (like I'd expect) that I can bookmark. A-fucking-duh. I was just asking my dad (during a Mac v. Windows conversation this weekend), "I know Apple tries to hire the world's best designers, but where the hell do the second-best people go? Because they're not in Redmond."

By: Suck Poppet

Suck Poppet — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:56:25 -0800

In the future, everyone will have this as their home page. Nothing will ever replace the absolutely speedy and calming utility of about:blank as my home page.

By: Termite

Termite — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 10:00:03 -0800

A question for the savvy people here: how in the hail does it know which city I live in? I took a look at the "Settings" page and my city is right there. It doesn't worry me, but I'd like to know how it's done.

By: signal

signal — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 10:00:40 -0800

Question: If Microsoft is so rich and spends millions of dollars on development, why don’t they hire any graphic designers? Why do they always ask somebody’s out of work brother with a copy of digital darkroom 1.1 to do their design work?

By: seanyboy

seanyboy — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 10:01:27 -0800

Termite: It uses D.N.A. from your keyboard.

By: Bugbread

Bugbread — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 10:10:16 -0800

Suck Poppet : "Nothing will ever replace the absolutely speedy and calming utility of about:blank as my home page." It's the love that never dies. Sure, I've had my infidelities: Mefi was my home page for a while, I had a fling with a portal, and even a dalliance with a local html file that had all my bookmarks directly on it as big pushable buttons. But those liasons never lasted, and my true love is for my beautiful wife, about:blank. Termite : "A question for the savvy people here: how in the hail does it know which city I live in? I took a look at the 'Settings' page and my city is right there." A few guesses. First, when I look at it, it shows Redmond, WA, even though I live half the planet away. So, I guess, there is a possibility that it shows Redmond, WA for everybody, and you just happen to live there. Silliness aside, I'd assume it uses your IP address to determine your ISP (and what part of the ISP). Many ISPs sort IP addresses by region, so if your IP address is part of the "AOL - San Diego" block, it would know that, since you're using that IP address, you're probably in San Diego.

By: danb

danb — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 10:17:21 -0800

about:blank is where it's at, as they say. The Microsoft portal is cool, I guess. Not any cooler (or less cool) than Yahoo's or Google's. I'll say this: neither this thread nor the Mighty Mouse thread was really necessary.

By: selfnoise

selfnoise — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 10:21:38 -0800

danb- I have a better solution: From now on August 2nd is Operating System Hateration day. So get it on, you'll have to wait a year starting tomorrow. I hate: -Mac -Linux -OS/2 -AIX -PalmOS -Windows CE -Lucent Inferno

By: cheerleaders_to_your_funeral

cheerleaders_to_your_funeral — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 10:25:34 -0800

Doesn't work in Safari. Doesn't work in Opera.

By: gyc

gyc — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 10:30:21 -0800

OK so on Safari it shows just a search box, and on Deer Park Alpha and Opera, it just has "start..." in the middle of the page with nowhere to click. Obviously this is another great example of standards-compliant web design by Microsoft.

By: maulik

maulik — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 10:31:00 -0800

Termite: there are services out there that map ip address to physical locations this service, for example will do the trick

By: runningdogofcapitalism

runningdogofcapitalism — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 10:43:57 -0800

In the future, everyone will have this as their home page.

In the future, seanyboy will still be trying to live down this post.

By: nthdegx

nthdegx — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 10:54:42 -0800

Bloglines serves as an excellent customisable start page for me.

By: fungible

fungible — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 11:17:54 -0800

there are services out there that map ip address to physical locations Either that, or is there a setting in Windows for your location? (There is on Macs, I know.) And I know IE likes to give to websites all the information they want about your computer hardware, settings, bank account numbers, etc. Perhaps this is how "Start" figures it out. (And perhaps this is why it doesn't work in Safari or some configurations of Firefox.) Really, I've never been sold on the whole RSS thing. Like, if I want to read what's new on MeFi, I'll just hit the button for MeFi. Is there really a need for me to see abbreviated links all on one page? How lazy are we getting as a culture?

By: Bugbread

Bugbread — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 11:30:56 -0800

fungible : "I know IE likes to give to websites all the information they want about your computer hardware, settings, bank account numbers, etc." I think you're misusing the word "know". You think IE likes to give websites all the information they want about your computer, but in reality they only give certain information (far far too much for my tastes, but certainly not everything), and location isn't one of them.

By: Dantien

Dantien — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 11:45:55 -0800

seanyboy and dios, if you hate Metafilter's FPPs so much, why do you bother posting? Why do you hate MeFi?

By: kryptondog

kryptondog — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 11:46:56 -0800

Came across this a few days ago. I actually like it quite a bit; much more than google's start page. Still needs work (the drop shadows for the pop-ups are extremely ugly), but if the blog posts are to be believed- 50/50 chance- it's going to get better. It's replaced "blank page" as my Firefox homepage (teh irony, teh irony). Excepting a handful of things, everything I've got customized seems to work close to perfect with it. Neener.

By: gramschmidt

gramschmidt — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 11:50:41 -0800

I've never been sold on the whole RSS thing. Yes, THANK you. It's gratifying to realize I'm not the only one.

By: mdbell79

mdbell79 — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 12:01:44 -0800

Not sure why everyone's saying IE-only. Works fine in Firefox for me. Which doesn't mean I'll be using it, although I appreciate the link to Google's new personalized homepage. I like things were I can use the same old username I already was.

By: spock

spock — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 12:05:17 -0800

Paging jessamyn. . . clean-up on aisle 2!

By: Artw

Artw — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 12:09:39 -0800

mdbell79 - I think they may be using some mac browsers with some W3C compatibility issues. This seems to be some kind of smallscale tech demo so they probably didn;t put in all the hacks and tweaks you need to get CSS/DHTML to work with them.

By: mazola

mazola — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 12:16:57 -0800

In the future, everyone will have this as their home page. ... because it will ship as the default in IE and nobody will be bothered to change it.

By: Artw

Artw — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 12:23:22 -0800

Yes, THANK you. It's gratifying to realize I'm not the only one. Podcasting is the one that's completely passed me by.

By: Bugbread

Bugbread — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 12:34:56 -0800

"I've never been sold on the whole RSS thing." "gramschmidt : "Yes, THANK you. It's gratifying to realize I'm not the only one." Me too. Artw : "Podcasting is the one that's completely passed me by." I thought the same until I read a link from somewhere within here about NPR providing podcasts of Morning Becomes Eclectic. I used to listen to that in high school every morning (or, at least, I think it was every morning), but now I don't live in the US, so I can't listen. I also can't stream audio at work, and really want to listen to it on the train. With a podcast, I subscribe once and the file is automatically loaded daily (or, er, however often it's published) into my mp3 player, so it's like having NPR start every day right when I want it to, and able to be paused if necessary, but without the trouble of downloading it manually every day. So now I'm looking forward to going home and subscribing to my first podcast. Not an amazing-astoundo invention, but one that I can finally see the advantage of.

By: soyjoy

soyjoy — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 13:08:16 -0800

What runningdogofcapitalism said. Definitely an August 2nd FPP.

By: furtive

furtive — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 14:31:32 -0800

Bah, it's like msn.com before they had ads, with a bit of ajax to boot (google.com/ig ripoff indeed!). No way they'll ever will me back. However, it would be a big step up if they used that as the default homepage for Internet Explorer instead of msn.com

By: gramschmidt

gramschmidt — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 14:53:42 -0800

Re podcasting: Not an amazing-astoundo invention, but one that I can finally see the advantage of. Certainly, there seem to be nice ways to use podcasting to shave a couple of steps off of downloading an audio file to your box and then uploading it to your mp3 player, but that's essentially all "podcasting" is. Yep, it turns a 10 second process into a five second process that I don't even have to initiate. Great. I'm not a coder, but with minimal research I could write a script to go to a certain website at a certain time (every day even!) and download a certain file and insert that file into whatever program I'm using to upload audio files to my mp3 player and then upload it when I connect the two. Hooray! I've invented scheduled file transfer! I want a Wired article! This is not revolutionary. I fully admit that the main reason I get irritated by concepts like podcasting and RSS feeds is the bizarre, undue attention given to them by dullards with no legitimate understanding of the technology. Remember the iPod's revolutionary "shuffle" feature? Remember the dumbest fucking article ever published in the New York Times?

The popularity of the listening mode led Apple's product design team to add Shuffle to the main menu on the fourth-generation iPod, which was introduced on July 19. Now, instead of having to scroll down into Settings to turn Shuffle on or off, users have it at their fingertips.

w h a t t h e f u c k a;l98 j;489p[ P{(*UY ({*p9[4*IUP{98(P*98[P&9[#&){

By: Bugbread

Bugbread — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 14:58:19 -0800

gramschmidt: Right there with you. Right there. With you.

By: majick

majick — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 17:19:31 -0800

"I hate: -Mac -Linux -OS/2 -AIX -PalmOS -Windows CE -Lucent Inferno" BeOS user, huh? Yeah, it's nice. Shame about the abysmal driver support, though.

By: majick

majick — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 17:24:24 -0800

"Not sure why everyone's saying IE-only." Probably because it looks like a blank white page with an input field and a submit button using Safari (and apparently all KHTML browsers; it's probably broken on Konqueror, too).

By: clevershark

clevershark — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 17:54:44 -0800

It's nice to see M$ imitating Google... and Yahoo... and Excite... and Netscape... and PRETTY MUCH EVERY FUCKING "PORTAL" COMPANY SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE INTERNET. Seriously, Microsoft has to be the most wildly overvalued company in history.

By: Merlin

Merlin — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 18:55:36 -0800

WTF? seriously, an input box and a search button? This is innovation? Am I missing something here?

By: Merlin

Merlin — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 18:59:04 -0800

Aha!! I went back to it again and on the 4th reload I got some other useless crap too. I do not need to see this (or any other portal) every time I open a new browser window thanks. about:blank is all I need.

By: formless

formless — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 19:35:03 -0800

Sorry, but I couldn't help but think: "Google did it! Episode 42127.

By: majick

majick — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 22:52:10 -0800

Merlin: You're supposed to imagine some features similar to google/ig, except, you know, invisible.

By: hypersloth

hypersloth — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 23:01:20 -0800

I'll never get my minute back, will I? What an unbelievably stupid post. Ugh.

By: superfem

superfem — Wed, 03 Aug 2005 01:04:00 -0800

I'm befuddled as to why Start's default stock quotes are GOOG MSFT YHOO With Google at 10x the other two (and Yahoo beating MS), that direct comparison just looks silly on MS's part. Or did I miss something and everyone else's defaults are different?

By: elafint

elafint — Wed, 03 Aug 2005 07:03:32 -0800

superfem, one company's stock price being numerically higher than another doesn't necessarily mean that it one is winning or anything of that sort. it's really only the delta that matters (or multiplying by number of outstanding shares for the market-cap). The MSFT stock has split many many times over the past quarter century. I can't even imagine how high the price would be if it was never split.

By: Bugbread

Bugbread — Wed, 03 Aug 2005 11:43:20 -0800

superfem : "With Google at 10x the other two (and Yahoo beating MS), that direct comparison just looks silly on MS's part." I suppose it might to some, but I don't see it. A company with 10 stocks, each worth $1000, does not look to be more impressive than a company with 1,000,000 stocks, each worth $10. Google being 10x Yahoo or MS doesn't mean a lot unless you know the total number of stocks.