Selling the Rope to Hang Oneself.

August 6, 2005 9:30 AM

Cheney's Halliburton is Selling Iran Components and Technology for Nuclear Power Cheney and the Bush administration rattle sabers at Iran for working on nuclear reactors. Yet Halliburton is selling Iran nuclear components and technology. Using Cheney's rhetoric, this would seem treasonous.
posted by mk1gti (116 comments total)

And how is this different than how they dealt with Iraq?
posted by Balisong at 9:31 AM on August 6, 2005

(and both your links go the same place..)
posted by Balisong at 9:32 AM on August 6, 2005

Just pointing out the hypocrisy of this administration, saying one thing and doing another.
Sorry about the linkage thing, I'm trying to herd cats this morning and all cat owners know how that can be . . .
posted by mk1gti at 9:44 AM on August 6, 2005

You make your cats post your links?
posted by cavalier at 9:45 AM on August 6, 2005

Is there any way to apply the Patriot Act and assorted other new laws/procedures to Corporations? I think Gitmo is lovely this time of year, according to Rush and other radio talkshow hosts--perhaps Halliburton's senior management needs a vacation in a tropical paradise?
posted by amberglow at 9:48 AM on August 6, 2005

Does Cheney still work for Halliburton?
posted by Cyrano at 9:58 AM on August 6, 2005

You make your cats post your links?
--------------------------------
Yes, I'm afraid so, they've been forced to work for their room and board. Such a harsh taskmaster. . .
posted by mk1gti at 10:00 AM on August 6, 2005

Well, sort of. Cheney does profit if Halliburton does well, and he is in a position to make them do well.
posted by Balisong at 10:01 AM on August 6, 2005

As for Cheney working for Halliburton, I would not be at all surprised to find out he benefits financially from them and Brown & Root.
I'm hopeful that the FBI's investigation into this might bear some additional fruit down the road. We'll have to wait and see. As scandal ridden and dishonest as this administration has been over both terms I'm surprised the whole lot haven't been frog-marched into prison cells along with their bought and paid for senate and congress.
posted by mk1gti at 10:03 AM on August 6, 2005

I just love how Guantanamo Bay (or GTMO) became "Gitmo". I noticed that since Bush's many debacles in enunciating the latter, suddenly it is reduced to some crude simple phonix easy to pronounce two syllable word.

And as far as Cheney and Halliburton goes(Or even Karl Rove and the Plame leak for that matter) as long as the investigations take their baby steps to a conclusion it will be years before any real answers or charges come, and by that time everyone will be so bored of the topic they probably won't care. I hope that isn't the case, but i'm guessing its what they are banking on.
posted by rabbitmoon at 10:13 AM on August 6, 2005

We all know the deterent effect Watergate, Savings and Loan, Iran-Contra, etc have had on this bunch. Draws them in like maggots . . .
posted by mk1gti at 10:22 AM on August 6, 2005

You make your cats post your links?
posted by cavalier at 12:45 PM EST on August 6 [!]

Didn't expect to laugh in this post.

Cheney's the recipient of $150,000/year stipend from Halliburton, for deferred income, I believe. It'd be moronic to think he wouldn't go back to them (at least on a consulting basis) to collect on his favors' effects on the company.

I'm sick of hearing about things like this, though, then having the Sisyphusian task of building consensus that it should be looked into (while the WH stonewalls) then having an investigation begun, after more delay, and then waiting until Bush is out of office for the truth to come out.
posted by Busithoth at 10:24 AM on August 6, 2005

This is ironic. I'm a Canadian and whenever I download technical software I have to check those boxes agreeing never to bring copies of Oracle Application Server to Iran and all the other enemies of the USA. I guess Haliburton doesn't see those same checkboxes.
posted by furtive at 10:28 AM on August 6, 2005

If I was whomever was calling the nuclear shots in Iran, I wouldn't be buying from Haliburton! Because:
a) all too reminiscent of the we-know-Saddam-has-Anthrax-because-we-sold-him-some, and
b) they may pull a Schindler and try to sell defective equipment.

godwin!
posted by dreamsign at 10:38 AM on August 6, 2005

Maybe that's why the Administration reversed itself yesterday and decided to endorse the EU plan to let Iran have a civilian nuclear power program.
posted by twjordan at 10:44 AM on August 6, 2005

"I don't even know what gingham is, but she goes through about ten rolls a week of that stuff."
posted by jbrjake at 10:54 AM on August 6, 2005

"As scandal ridden and dishonest as this administration has been over both terms I'm surprised the whole lot haven't been frog-marched into prison cells along with their bought and paid for senate and congress."

And just who do you think makes the frog-marching happen, if it's not those people??

"Hey, I know! Let's imprison ourselves! You know, just for fun."
posted by Malor at 11:01 AM on August 6, 2005

This is ironic. I'm a Canadian and whenever I download technical software I have to check those boxes agreeing never to bring copies of Oracle Application Server to Iran and all the other enemies of the USA. I guess Haliburton doesn't see those same checkboxes.

No need to guess.

``Lesar’s announcement [regarding illegal Iran deals] was little more than “PR damage control,” said one congressional investigator who has closely followed Halliburton’s dealings. “They’re still acting like the sanctions law are a big joke,” the investigator added.'
posted by Rothko at 11:04 AM on August 6, 2005

jbrjake writes ' "I don't even know what gingham is, but she goes through about ten rolls a week of that stuff."'

Ha! That was the first thing I though of when I read this.
posted by blag at 11:09 AM on August 6, 2005

who do you think makes the frog-marching happen, if it's not those people??
-------------------------
It looks like it might fall to the FBI, considering the way the investigations they are conducting seem to be proceeding.
Now, if you're in the congress or senate and a bunch of FBI people come up to you and tell you that you're going to prison if you fail to co-operate and that you know that no threat to fire them or demote them, etc. will have no effect, and in addition to that those same FBI people bring up the subject of other little pies that these people have their fingers in will also be investigated or otherwise addressed, I would think they might want to co-operate.

But then again, we do live in Bushworld and wrong is right, down is up and the world really does rotate around Bush's ass.
posted by mk1gti at 11:22 AM on August 6, 2005

Too bad that blog entry has no concrete proof whatsoever of this allegation.
posted by mischief at 11:42 AM on August 6, 2005

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posted by angry modem at 11:43 AM on August 6, 2005

Too bad that blog entry has no concrete proof whatsoever of this allegation.

Hey, that's neat. It's like that war Bush started, you know, without any concrete proof! Cool.
posted by odinsdream at 11:59 AM on August 6, 2005

I just love how Guantanamo Bay (or GTMO) became "Gitmo". I noticed that since Bush's many debacles in enunciating the latter, suddenly it is reduced to some crude simple phonix easy to pronounce two syllable word.

Guantanamo Bay was called Gitmo long before Bush became president. Also, I have a news flash for you, Bush isn't dumb.
posted by mosch at 11:59 AM on August 6, 2005

psychopathic, insane, delusional, evil, smirky, yes--but not dumb.
posted by amberglow at 12:04 PM on August 6, 2005

Too bad that blog entry has no concrete proof whatsoever of this allegation. posted by mischief at 11:42 AM PST on August 6

...as if GiagantiCos (*cough*...Enron...*cough*) routinely out themself with plenty of internal confidential documents leaked willy-nilly when they are up to greedy no-good-nik activities.

But...hmm...motive, check...opportunity, check...ability to obfuscate from contacts in the Executive branch, check...lots of smoke, check.

This should set off a fire alarm at least...one just loud enough so that a nice special prosecutor would answer any such alarm, and then clear this up.

If Halliburton is clean...what say let's find out?

That's what an investigation is for...finding out what's what...just sayin'.
posted by Dunvegan at 12:04 PM on August 6, 2005

We still don't even know who was at those Energy meetings Cheney had years ago, with maps of Iraq.
posted by amberglow at 12:05 PM on August 6, 2005

Too bad that blog entry has no concrete proof whatsoever of this allegation.
---------------------------
You mean like what's below? I also saw Financial Times cited as well.


According to a February 2001 report in the Wall Street Journal, “Halliburton Products & Services Ltd. works behind an unmarked door on the ninth floor of a new north Tehran tower block.
posted by mk1gti at 12:06 PM on August 6, 2005

4 years ago?
posted by smackfu at 12:14 PM on August 6, 2005

So, who was his informant? The pizza delivery boy?

Tabloig horseshit. C'mon, at least come up with a credible news link.
posted by mischief at 12:20 PM on August 6, 2005

I suppose the fact that this has not been covered by any mainstream or reputable member of the media is just deeper evidence of it's truth..... Chumps!
posted by TurdBlossom at 12:22 PM on August 6, 2005

"Only weeks before Halliburton made headlines by announcing it was pulling out of Iran ... the Texas-based oil services firm quietly signed a major new business deal to help develop Tehran’s natural gas fields," ... (PRWatch, 2/05)
posted by amberglow at 12:24 PM on August 6, 2005

(quoting Newsweek, btw)
posted by amberglow at 12:24 PM on August 6, 2005

Is natural gas nuclear technology???
posted by Carbolic at 12:26 PM on August 6, 2005

Is natural gas nuclear technology??? posted by Carbolic at 12:26 PM PST on August 6

Where is it written that Halliburton can only do one type of energy (and/or pre-nuclear weapon) technology deal per country?
posted by Dunvegan at 12:29 PM on August 6, 2005

The subject of the post "Cheney's Halliburton is Selling Iran Components and Technology for Nuclear Power"

Natural gas is not components and technology for nuclear power.
posted by Carbolic at 12:32 PM on August 6, 2005

I just love how Guantanamo Bay (or GTMO) became "Gitmo". I noticed that since Bush's many debacles in enunciating the latter, suddenly it is reduced to some crude simple phonix easy to pronounce two syllable word.

Guantanamo Bay was called Gitmo long before Bush became president. Also, I have a news flash for you, Bush isn't dumb.
posted by mosch at 11:59 AM PST on August 6 [!]

i never said he was dumb. i just said he couldn't enunciate. you can't get to where he has gotten by being dumb.
posted by rabbitmoon at 12:40 PM on August 6, 2005

And beside, if we don't want Iran to develop nuclear capability doesn't it make sense to assist them with alternative energy sources???

And if a US company doing business with Iran upsets you I've got some news. There is a US person or entity legally doing business with every country on the face of the earth including N. Korea. It isn't illegal to do business with the embargoed countries it's illegal to do business without government permission (an export license).
posted by Carbolic at 12:52 PM on August 6, 2005

Natural gas is not components and technology for nuclear power.

Some components required for natural gas energy technology can be applied to a nuclear refinement process. And this point is a distraction in any case, as these sales violate existing sanctions.

If Haliburton knows it can work around the law, given its history it doesn't seem unreasonable they would sell Iran whatever technology and services it needs to develop nuclear weaponry.

From a national security standpoint, this situation seems prime to blow up (literally) in the face of the US.
posted by Rothko at 1:01 PM on August 6, 2005

From the article. And since when did Financial Times and The Wall Street Journal stop being credible news sources?

'Halliburton sources said the company sold centrifuges and oil and natural gas drilling parts to Oriental Oil Kish and advised Nasseri on nuclear related projects.'
posted by mk1gti at 1:11 PM on August 6, 2005

Such sales wouldn't neccessarily violate the sanctions if the seller obtained an export license from the US government.
posted by Carbolic at 1:20 PM on August 6, 2005

And since when did Financial Times and The Wall Street Journal stop being credible news sources?

When they started printing stories that reflected poorly on the Bush administration, of course.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:21 PM on August 6, 2005

Such sales wouldn't neccessarily violate the sanctions if the seller obtained an export license from the US government.

A US firm cannot sell anything directly to Iran, with or without export licenses. In the case of centrifuges (which are dual-use, for what it's worth) and natural gas technolgies, Haliburton weaseled its way around the US export sanctions by using its Dubai-based foreign subsidiary.
posted by Rothko at 1:31 PM on August 6, 2005

Iran is sitting pretty with the coming Shiite theocracy that will come about in Iraq.
posted by bardic at 1:32 PM on August 6, 2005

Eeek. Please pardon my grammar.
posted by bardic at 1:51 PM on August 6, 2005

don't you mean Greater Iran?
posted by amberglow at 1:53 PM on August 6, 2005

Where's ParisParamus? At least Mischief showed... wouldn't be a post about the M.E. without one of those two trolls showing up.

Good to see you Mischief! Call your boy Paris and get him in here!! We need more witty one-liners to get the people all uppity.
posted by AspectRatio at 1:57 PM on August 6, 2005

"since when did Financial Times and The Wall Street Journal stop being credible news sources?"

Where did either of these two say anything about Halliburton selling nuclear technology to Iran?

"Some components required for natural gas energy technology can be applied to a nuclear refinement process"

Bolts, nuts, pipe, ...
posted by mischief at 1:58 PM on August 6, 2005

I'd just like to state for the record that I do think Bush is dumb and that's exactly how he got to be where he is - in fact, it was an essential pre-requisite. Cheney, Rove, Rummy, Condi - those guys aren't dumb. Bush, I think, is dumb. Anyone remember the first presidential debate last year?
posted by fingers_of_fire at 1:58 PM on August 6, 2005

"US firm cannot sell anything directly to Iran"

Rothko: On what do you base that opinion? I base my opinion that it is indeed possible to trade with Iran if one obtains an export licence on the Dept. of the Treas., Office of Foreign Assets Control Regulations regarding the embargo on Iran (31 CFR part 560). You can read a synopsis here.
posted by Carbolic at 2:00 PM on August 6, 2005

Reagan was dumb--Bush is too spiteful and smirky.
posted by amberglow at 2:00 PM on August 6, 2005

Halliburton desperately needs to own a country with plenty of oil and no great risk of a democratic revolution.

Where else are they going to find one, these days?

Yes, they had Texas, but it wasn't enough.
posted by hank at 2:04 PM on August 6, 2005

I base my opinion that it is indeed possible to trade with Iran if one obtains an export licence on the Dept. of the Treas., Office of Foreign Assets Control Regulations regarding the embargo on Iran (31 CFR part 560). You can read a synopsis here.

Thanks for the link, you're right. Do you know if Haliburton has this license, or if any company or person been given an export license to sell weapon-making technology to Iran? If they have a license, why did they secretively use their Dubai subsidiary to arrange the sales?
posted by Rothko at 2:21 PM on August 6, 2005

Bush isn't dumb.
posted by mosch at 11:59 AM PST on August 6 [!]

All this talk of demonstrative intelligence. It really DOESN'T matter - apparently no one in this thead has ever seen Being There.
posted by vhsiv at 2:24 PM on August 6, 2005

If they have a license, why did they secretively use their Dubai subsidiary to arrange the sales?
And why have they set up shell companies in many other countries?
posted by amberglow at 2:28 PM on August 6, 2005

i never said he was dumb. i just said he couldn't enunciate. you can't get to where he has gotten by being dumb.

Man, I would love to lock Bush-baby in a room with the Stanford-Binet or WISC-III, without his handlers there to help him.

Can you imagine?
posted by dreamsign at 2:29 PM on August 6, 2005

Rothko: The only thing I saw substantiated was that they were helping Iran develop their natural gas industry. I can only assume they obtained a license for that. (It seems reasonable that they might be granted one for that purpose since one of the US arguments against Iran's development of nuclear power is that the have sufficient alternative energy sources.) I doubt they could obtain a license to sell weapon-making technology but I also doubt they sold anything directly to Iran for that purpose.
posted by Carbolic at 2:33 PM on August 6, 2005

thead = thread

Bush, I.Q.? Somehere between 55 and 81, probably.
posted by vhsiv at 2:33 PM on August 6, 2005

It took you guys nearly 5 years to figure out that Cheney is a traitor to his country? [shakes head]
posted by clevershark at 2:41 PM on August 6, 2005

Carbolic, doesn't it seem logical that if the U.S. says Iran's an evil country and we shouldn't do business there that if a U.S. business *does* trade with, and not only trade but provide them with materials and assistance to manufacture and build a nuclear reactor or other devices it might seem a bit suspicious? And if said company just happens to be one the vice president headed and is very likely profiting from that it would also seem more than a little bit unseemly?
What does someone need to do to drum it into your head? Blowjob in the whitehouse, no big deal. Selling nuclear components and knowledge is a *very* big deal.
Why do you hate america so much? Why are you defending institutions or individuals who would subvert this country's sanctions against another country?What kind of a commie are you?
posted by mk1gti at 2:48 PM on August 6, 2005

How old is the information used to write this article? Halliburton Corp. HQ is in Houston, not Dallas.
posted by mrbill at 2:51 PM on August 6, 2005

Washington Post, February 2, 2005

Halliburton denied it had violated a U.S. law banning "direct or indirect exportation of U.S.-origin goods, services, or technology to Iran or the Government of Iran."

Halliburton spokeswoman Wendy Hall said the company had not broken the law because all of the work in the South Pars gas field would be done by non-Americans employed by a subsidiary registered in the Cayman Islands.

"We are in the service business, not the foreign-policy business," she said. "We have followed and will continue to follow applicable laws."

Then, on Jan. 27, more details emerged. The Financial Times of London (subscription required) confirmed that Naseri, "a senior Iranian diplomat negotiating with Europe over Iran's controversial nuclear programme ... [was]... at the heart of deals with US energy companies to develop the country's oil industry."

Plain sight. Hiding in. Since February.
posted by vhsiv at 2:56 PM on August 6, 2005

Bad Halliburton, Bad Dick Cheney. Spankew!
posted by mk1gti at 3:31 PM on August 6, 2005

Possible Future Halliburton Press Release:

Regarding Halliberton and Iran: Doing Business with the Axis of Evil is Good for Halliburton...and What's Good for Halliburton is Good for...Ummm...Good For Halliburton.

Now, before you say ANYTHING about the morality of Halliburton doing business with what the Vice President/Halliburton Stipend Consultant/Whatever-He-Is-On-Retainer-Guy has also named the 'Axis of Evil" just remember this: That it is politically impossible for Halliburton to commit any acts even approaching a whisper of wrong, let alone treason...because, hey, we lease the Government via Proxy.

And anyway, what's wrong with evil? That's just business.

So there.

Nyah, nyah.

Mr. McClelland will now take questions.

*crickets*

Scott? Scotty...? (Drat...look at him go. Sure hope he doesn't jump any turnstiles...*shrug*)
posted by Dunvegan at 3:52 PM on August 6, 2005

apparently no one in this thead has ever seen Being There.

Being Nothing: George W. Bush as Presidential Simulacrum
posted by homunculus at 4:01 PM on August 6, 2005

Cheney's a manwhore.
posted by disgruntled at 4:01 PM on August 6, 2005

Bush, I.Q.? Somehere between 55 and 81, probably.

well, if we go with the classic definitions...

50-69 moron
70-80 borderline deficiency

I vote for moron. Er, I mean, I didn't vote for him. Ah, you know what I mean.
posted by dreamsign at 4:16 PM on August 6, 2005

mk1gti: Please point me to some source other than a blogger that substantiates that Halliburton has helped Iran develop its nuclear capabilities. (No more pointing to articles about them assisting with natural gas.) What Halliburton has done might be hypocritical but I don't see any proof of illegality.

Some of you hate Bush et al so much you are willing to believe and espouse as absolute truth any negative allegation no matter how unsubstantiated or ridiculous. I'm not crazy about them either but it makes it difficult to take any of it very seriously.

If some blogger posted an article charging that Bush killed the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus or Elvis there'd be an FPP.
posted by Carbolic at 4:46 PM on August 6, 2005

There was a lot more "evidence" that Iraq had WMDs than I've seen that Halliburton help Iran with nukes. The mainline here is that anyone who thought there were WMDs was an idiot or a liar.
posted by Carbolic at 4:53 PM on August 6, 2005

Blog is down. Plus, I'm dissapointed that I'm being linked to a blog.
posted by Citizen Premier at 5:00 PM on August 6, 2005

Please point me to some source other than a blogger that substantiates that Halliburton has helped Iran develop its nuclear capabilities. (No more pointing to articles about them assisting with natural gas.) What Halliburton has done might be hypocritical but I don't see any proof of illegality. posted by Carbolic at 4:46 PM PST on August 6

Will a reference citing a report from the US National Security Council do, Carbolic? If not, I'll keep looking for you.

Halliburton Secretly Doing Business with Key Member of Iran’s Nuclear Team

by Jason Leopold
August 5, 2005
GlobalResearch.ca

Scandal-plagued Halliburton, the oil services company once headed by Vice President Dick was secretly working with one of Iran’s top nuclear scientists on natural gas related projects and, allegedly, selling the scientists’ oil company key components for a nuclear reactor, according to Halliburton sources with intimate knowledge of both companies’ business dealings.

Just last week a National Security Council report said Iran was a decade away from acquiring a nuclear bomb. That time frame could arguably have been significantly longer if Halliburton, which just reported a 284 percent increase in its fourth quarter profits due to its Iraq reconstruction contracts, was not actively providing the Iranian government with the financial means to build a nuclear weapon.

Now comes word that Halliburton, which has a long history of flouting U.S. law by conducting business with countries the Bush administration said has ties to terrorism, was working with Cyrus Nasseri, the vice chairman of Oriental Oil Kish, one of Iran’s largest private oil companies, on oil development projects in Tehran. Nasseri is also a key member of Iran’s nuclear development team.

...more...
posted by Dunvegan at 5:19 PM on August 6, 2005

That NSC cite isn't about Halliburton and doesn't add any credibility. Sorry.
posted by smackfu at 5:31 PM on August 6, 2005

[crickets from the carbolic keypad]
posted by nofundy at 5:32 PM on August 6, 2005

That's the same story from the blog linked in the FPP, just on a different site.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 5:37 PM on August 6, 2005

Carbolic, there's a saying 'where there's smoke there's fire.'
This administration and the current players in it who's past records and convictions speak for themselves, more than any other has generated so much smoke and so thickly that just based on severe evidence of smoke leading to fire these people should be pulled from the game and barred from playing for life.
As far as providing evidence, google is your friend. Play nice.
posted by mk1gti at 5:39 PM on August 6, 2005

Jason Leopold is also the author of the blog linked in the post. You are linking to the same unsubstantiated charge.

His article says "Just last week a National Security Council report said Iran was a decade away from acquiring a nuclear bomb."

Even his articles don't say that the NSC report says that Halliburton has assisted Iran with nukes.
posted by Carbolic at 5:39 PM on August 6, 2005

That NSC cite isn't about Halliburton and doesn't add any credibility. Sorry. posted by smackfu at 5:31 PM PST on August 6

If you'd be a tad more specific in what credibility items you feel are not being addressed, I'd be pleased to add those specifics for you, smackfu.

That would help to keep down the long dry report data thread-flooding down a bit and it would assist me in being more direct and germane in posting exactly what you may be interested in reading.

Thanks.
posted by Dunvegan at 5:39 PM on August 6, 2005

BTW...I'm going to find as much direct NSC info as possible, so we cut out the middle-blogger. I hope that will be more suited to advancing our discussion here.
posted by Dunvegan at 5:42 PM on August 6, 2005

mk1gti : "Where there's smoke there's fire". Saddam sure acted like a man with WMDs. Why didn't he allow unrestricted inspections if he had nothing to hide?

It's unsubstantiated bullshit that is only being discussed because Bush et al are so detested by many in this forum. It's just noise. It begins to look like ConspiracyTheoryFilter.
posted by Carbolic at 5:44 PM on August 6, 2005

Personally, I don't detest Bush, et. al. as that is an emotion-based response when rationality is strictly called for regarding alligations of corruption...but I do question authority, and I don't give anyone a free pass.
posted by Dunvegan at 5:54 PM on August 6, 2005

i never said he was dumb. i just said he couldn't enunciate. you can't get to where he has gotten by being dumb.
posted by rabbitmoon at 12:40 PM PST on August 6 [!]


But you CAN get there by using 'gotten'!
posted by Balisong at 5:58 PM on August 6, 2005

"Where there's smoke there's fire". Saddam sure acted like a man with WMDs. Why didn't he allow unrestricted inspections if he had nothing to hide?
------------------------------------
What rock were you hiding under when the UN inspectors were running around the country with carte blanche to look wherever they pleased? What about the CIA hiding WMD sites from inspectors? Get your facts straight.
posted by mk1gti at 6:09 PM on August 6, 2005

Yeah, pretty much, the people in the know said 'no', and the people with an agenda of a couple weeks as I remember, said that any inteligence that went against the agenda wasn't going to be considered.
posted by Balisong at 6:14 PM on August 6, 2005

Carbolic, here's a movie you should rent (no, actually you should by this one and watch it over and over again until it seeps into your close-minded little noggin.

I think that once you watch this movie you'll understand exactly why I called you 'commie'. You and your kind are far closer to that description than you think.
posted by mk1gti at 6:17 PM on August 6, 2005

"running around the country carte blanche"????

Where were you? Here's just one timeline of what went on in Iraq prior to the war.

News Flash: Halliburton trained and funded the 9/11 terrorist.
posted by Carbolic at 6:19 PM on August 6, 2005

Here's more to chew on re WMD inspection issues occuring not from Iraq, but from the Bush administration. What were they trying to hide? Why were they assisting Saddam?
Why do they hate American and Americans so much? What kind of blind communists are these?
posted by mk1gti at 6:23 PM on August 6, 2005

Okay, NOW I believe Halliburton is setting up Iran's nuclear program.
posted by Carbolic at 6:29 PM on August 6, 2005

There, I knew I could convince you. Everyone move along now, nothing to see here, Carbolic is finally convinced. I'll bet before long he'll be smoking his first joint and growing his hair long and voting democratic now. Welcome to the reality based community!
posted by mk1gti at 6:36 PM on August 6, 2005

God forbid a day goes by without Halliburton chatter on MeFi.
posted by cpchester at 6:50 PM on August 6, 2005

But you CAN get there by using 'gotten'!

Low, Balisong. And wrong.
posted by Kwantsar at 7:02 PM on August 6, 2005

Just makin' 'murica safe for 'muricans, that's all.
Let's all sing Arlo Guthrie's 'This Land Is Your Land' to celebrate!
posted by mk1gti at 7:03 PM on August 6, 2005

here's a movie you should rent

Frank Sinatra was awesome in that.
posted by Balisong at 7:09 PM on August 6, 2005

Yeah, it's really great food for thought along with Seven Days in May
Kirk Douglas! He a man!
posted by mk1gti at 7:25 PM on August 6, 2005

Hrrrmmm, excuse me, he *da* man. . .
posted by mk1gti at 7:51 PM on August 6, 2005

The Manchurian Candidate is such a great movie that it makes me hate Frank Sinatra just a little less.
posted by interrobang at 7:55 PM on August 6, 2005

Y'know I can almost forgive Frank Sinatra when watching 'The Manchurian Candidate'. Then I remember he's playing a *fictional character*. Fictional Chhaarraacterrrr. . .
Frank Sinatra the man, however, from what I've read about him, was not a very nice person and we'll just leave it at that. . .
posted by mk1gti at 8:17 PM on August 6, 2005

So, Carbolic...would you like any further specifics at this point? Or, did lose my concentration and miss a SarcasmFilter somewhere?

Seriously.
posted by Dunvegan at 8:24 PM on August 6, 2005

I was out watching the movies. Now that I realize that I've been programmed by the man I'm thinking more clearly. Dick Cheney is the devil and Bush killed Elvis. (Waiting for all that NSC data regarding Halliburton and the nukes in Iran.)
posted by Carbolic at 8:46 PM on August 6, 2005

It takes a while.. they're running a 14.4K dialup.
posted by Balisong at 9:05 PM on August 6, 2005

Carbolic, not meaning to bust your balls or anything here, but the bottom line is this: We're all americans, or at least most of us here on Me-Fi are. A lot of us have read our history and done our research when we've been unsure about what we're reading or what we've been told vs. what we're hearing from whatever administration be it democrat or conservative. I think the point you might be missing here is that some of us see the hypocrisy from *both* parties and have chosen another way.

The door is open to all and is entirely non-judgemental. The only thing we ask is you keep an open mind and keep the best interests of your country at heart, no matter what the TV or the current pResident is telling you. That's all true 'muricans ever ask. Keep an open mind, do your research, and remember above all else: United We Stand, Divided We Fall.

If the house 'murica is divided, we all lose. My hope is to bring us all under one roof again and root out the evil empire, whoever they might be.

I hope I can count on you as one who might have an open mind rather than a closed one.
posted by mk1gti at 9:06 PM on August 6, 2005

I am intrigued my this and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Whom do I vote to better achieve these results?
posted by Balisong at 9:11 PM on August 6, 2005

My only point was that there was nothing more than a bloggers unsupported article sited as evidence that Halliburton is helping Iran with their nukes. May be they are, I don't claim to know, but the evidence offered has nothing to do with proof. If the blogger's article is enough to convince you on this point then you should have been just as accepting of the Swift boater's stories about Kerry and you shouldn't be critical of those that were convinced that Iraq had WMD, I wasn't. Accepting unsubstantiated stories as fact does not equal an open mind.(Neither does insulting those that don't accept them as fact.)
posted by Carbolic at 9:16 PM on August 6, 2005

The only thing I want to do here is make people think and consider possibilities. That is all. Is my side being totally honest with me here or are they leading me astray on a lie?
The Financial Times and The Wall Street Journal have considerable 'conservative street cred', whether the article is from six months ago or from today.
When I read an article where an american company that is supposed to be representing american interests is indicating it is using foreign nationals to get around american regulations so it can make a profit by doing business with america's enemies, to me that is no different than if IBM made a deal with the Nazis in WWII to tabulate the deaths of jews in the concentration camps to more efficiently prosecute their extermination: It is still wrong, it is still treasonable, it should still be called out and exposed and the guilty parties held responsible to the fullest extent of the law, and if that law specifies a resolution that would befall all traitors, so be it.
posted by mk1gti at 9:32 PM on August 6, 2005

Carbolic...if I take to bed before I sort out all the documents, please know I'll finish in the morning...still recouping from spine surgery, and it's smarting enough that I know I should let you know I may not complete the reply tonight. There is much to sift through and re-organize and I'm struggling a bit.

But I'll not fail to get you what I've found. And if what I'm looking through is as you think, ultimately naught, I'll also not fail to present you with that finding and admission.

I hope you find that fair. I apologize for starting a discussion that is taking longer than is perhaps physically comfortable for me to pound through just at present. This thing with the pain and bed rest is getting on my nerves a touch. In the interests of self-medicating, I'm having a Ben and Jerry's (Doctor's orders, or it should be, you know) and they do tend to make me sleepy.

So, regarding my reply, know that if it is not here promptly tonight, it's because I've hit my limit, and please just check back Sunday morning. Sorry if that's lame...but lame is sometimes true, not a ploy to duck the discussion.

Hope to pick this discussion up with you after you get a chance to read the response and research...I'll do my best, will respond ASAP...and, thank you.
posted by Dunvegan at 9:33 PM on August 6, 2005

As far as the 'newsletter', there are T-shirts available, at present no newsletter. The T-shirts I leave up to the fertile imagination of any latent 'Betsy Ross's' out there.
Sic Semper Tyrannus.
posted by mk1gti at 9:33 PM on August 6, 2005

Dunvegan
Sorry to hear about your back pain, perhaps another 'conspiracy theory' to be diced around as I am also suffering from a bad back as well. Unable to walk for two full days at the beginning of July and on crutches for three days following and as of 30 days later still not even remotely close to being right.
Damn the hell of bad backs. Damn them all to hell.
But, onto more important things. Here's hoping no one, regardless of political stripe has to deal with a bad back as Dunvegan and I have had to deal with.

Best wishes for good back health for all.
posted by mk1gti at 9:37 PM on August 6, 2005

Whom do I vote to better achieve these results?
----------------------------------------
I leave that entirely up to you and hope that your heart and spirit lead you to the best possible choice.
posted by mk1gti at 10:03 PM on August 6, 2005

*frantically fasions a Betsy Ross T-shirt, but looks like a Diana Ross T-shirt with a rainbow behind it*
posted by Balisong at 10:06 PM on August 6, 2005

And I say *go with that* 'cause it's all about the image and image is all. Or at least that's what the marketing department would have you believe.

In the immortal words of Billy Crysta:l

'It is better to look good than to feel good.'
posted by mk1gti at 10:14 PM on August 6, 2005

CBC has done a great "unauthorized" biography on Dick. Expands on the topic of selling weapons to Iran and many other dirty deeds much more clearly.
posted by nyoki at 11:14 PM on August 6, 2005

All this talk of 'The Manchurian Candidate' and 'Being There' just reminds me of how callow, feckless and incompetent the Denzel-Demme remake was.

Computer chips?... In their heads? That's the stuff of B-movies from the '50's — surely the writers could have done a LOT better [see Brian Yuzna's 'Society' (1989)], with the themes of social engineering and class stratification - those social elements ALONE would lend themselves to a 'programmed' Raymond Shaw better than a damned computer chip. And a more compelling story-line — didn't Richard Nixon's Pa lock his boy into closets and such?

Is there an 'Omen' remake on the schedule? Yes. The title isn't very encouraging. How about 'Rosemary's Baby'?

Hollywood seems to be singularly incapable of crafting a good satire - Swiftian, Kosinskian, Chayefskyian - these days. Should we blame it on the literacy of the writers, or the producers?
posted by vhsiv at 5:36 AM on August 7, 2005

So, after all this blather, the bottom line:

Halliburton selling nuke tech to Iran is no more than some blogger's unsubstantiated claim, lacking even circumstantial evidence.
posted by mischief at 8:22 AM on August 7, 2005

Wow, mk1gti thinks he's God. Just, wow.

Show us the way, dear leader! Please, show us the way!
posted by veedubya at 8:44 AM on August 7, 2005

Bolts, nuts, pipe, ...
posted by mischief at 1:58 PM PST on August 6

Oh yeah, like those aluminum rods that Saddam was making nuclear weapons out of!
posted by sonofsamiam at 10:21 AM on August 7, 2005

Halliburton selling nuke tech to Iran is no more than some blogger's unsubstantiated claim, lacking even circumstantial evidence.
posted by mischief at 11:22 AM EST on August 7 [!]

So The WaPo is now some unsubstantiated blogger?
posted by vhsiv at 11:07 AM on August 7, 2005

vhsiv: where in that quote does it state that Halliburton sold (or even provided) nuclear tech to Iran?

"a senior Iranian diplomat negotiating with Europe over Iran's controversial nuclear programme ... [was]... at the heart of deals with US energy companies to develop the country's oil industry."

Perhaps you need lessons in english comprehension.
posted by mischief at 7:03 PM on August 7, 2005