Comments on: Bread and Circuses, 9/11 Style

Bread and Circuses, 9/11 Style

digaman — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 13:52:32 -0800

You can't make this stuff up: Rumsfeld announces that the Bush administration is planning to commemorate the fourth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks with an "America Supports You freedom walk" from the Pentagon saluting the troops deployed in Operation Iraqi Freedom, followed by a show by "country music superstar" Clint Black at the National Mall. (Not to imply that Saddam Hussein had anything to do with 9/11 or anything...)

By: wendell

wendell — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 13:56:40 -0800

The terrorists have won. Hands down.

By: dlugoczaj

dlugoczaj — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 13:59:32 -0800

I wrote to the Department of Defense this morning asking them to tell me how much money the Pentagon is devoting to this nonsense, and why that money isn't being used to properly equip the troops in Iraq or support the veterans returning with PTSD and other medical issues. Appalling.

By: fenriq

fenriq — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 13:59:38 -0800

It the walk culminates with Bush committing ritual suicide at Ground Zero then I'm all for it. Otherwise, this is (yet another) shameless attempt to link Saddam and 9/11 and hope that people don't forget that 9/11 was perpetrated by Osama bin Laden, who's still at large. Still, four years later, the greatest military force on the planet can't hunt down and capture/kill one guy. I am and continue to be unimpressed. And if they are walking so that all of the outraged Americans can pelt Rummy and Dick and Bush with rotten tomatoes then I'll for it too. Or, better yet, it would be awesome to have the parade route lined with people that all, at a signal, turned their backs on them, the politicians, not the soldiers. The gall of these asshats is impressive. But I know I won't be spending my 36th birthday anywhere near any of these bozos.

By: leftcoastbob

leftcoastbob — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 13:59:49 -0800

Way to piss off damned near everyone, Rumbo.

By: docpops

docpops — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:03:28 -0800

No way - this is a hoax. I swear, they aren't stupid enough to think this won't make them into laughingstocks.

By: brucec

brucec — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:05:28 -0800

how quickly we go from solemn ceremonies and quiet memorials to parades and country music fun.

By: digaman

digaman — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:09:32 -0800

All these ~~treasonous~~ liberal wet blankets! I'm sure it's a completely sincere tribute that just happens to fall on the same day that those ~~Iraqis~~ bad, bad men flew airplanes into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

By: Dean Keaton

Dean Keaton — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:10:41 -0800

It's a hoax.

By: brain_drain

brain_drain — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:10:42 -0800

Weird: the Washington Post is listed as a "supporter" of the event.

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:11:23 -0800

Now look, there is no proof that Saddam had anything to do with 9/11 in terms of planning or funding the attacks, but you know he was psyched, really really psyched that it happened. Which cannot stand. I've also heard that country music superstar Clint Black gives Osama the heebeejeebees because of his "fucking rubbery ass face" so a net win I think. You guys don't have to hate America 24 hours a day do you? I've also heard from several disabled, traumatized and unemployable vets that they would prefer a parade that would "lift the spirits of Americans who can't possible understand the joy of losing a leg for the USA" to medical care or anything else. Well one guy said he would rather a 24/7 morphine/ecstasy drip and a coupon for 17 slow mineral oil handjobs from that one filipino nurse than a parade in his honor, but he had a swarthy-koranic look. Our Boys, Our Boys.

By: digaman

digaman — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:12:32 -0800

The official press release.

By: digaman

digaman — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:13:11 -0800

As you were saying, Dean?

By: footnote

footnote — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:13:37 -0800

Hmmm...I wonder if they'll let me march with my "No Blood for Oil" shirt on. Anyone want to come with?

By: brain_drain

brain_drain — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:17:10 -0800

Does the heart logo remind anyone else of the zipper scene from "There's Something About Mary"?

By: fungible

fungible — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:18:31 -0800

Read about it yesterday, it's no hoax. Perhaps they can fly a plane into the Washington monument? That would be spectacular.

By: mosch

mosch — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:18:40 -0800

I just threw up a little, in my mouth.

By: BobFrapples

BobFrapples — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:19:02 -0800

"Freedom costs a buck o' five..."

By: dios

dios — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:19:34 -0800

I wasn't offended until I saw they were playing country music. Now I'm pissed! (We all know who listens to country music...) /me working on picking up on the LeFi cues

By: cleardawn

cleardawn — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:20:54 -0800

The way these scum (Bush, Rumsfeld and friends) claim to "Support the Troops", while laughingly sending them off to die ("bring 'em on" as Bush said about attacks on US troops), is continually surprising to me. Really, it surprises me every time. How can people be so utterly dishonest? As soon as we've seen how evil these people are, it seems our minds straightaway forget again, as though we're physically unable to maintain the memory of such blatant evil; and then, they do something else, like this, that surprises us yet again. I imagine it's a bit like the continual surprise all the recent amputees must feel, every time they look at their stumps. I mean all the recently injured US troops, the ones with fewer legs and arms than they had before Bush sent them off to Iraq, whose numbers don't seem to figure in the media too much, for some reason. I hope some of them turn up to join in Rummy's little festival. I'd like to see them up front on Fox News more often, too. Support our troops. Indeed.

By: MotherTucker

MotherTucker — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:24:24 -0800

Let's take back 9/11. Here's what I propose: On September 11, everyone should bring a plate of cookies to their local firehouse. Let's turn the day into a day of thanks to all the people who step out on a limb or do a dirty job no one else wants. Say thank you to EMS and sanitation workers. Thank a cop or a fireman. Hell, you can even be nice to your waiter. It's just a thought.

By: wendell

wendell — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:24:56 -0800

If this thread turns into a discussion of country music, it will be the third time TODAY that trolldios has succeeded in changing the subject of a MeFi thread. The terrorist has won.

By: mosch

mosch — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:25:18 -0800

dios: you know that the outrage is over a continued false link between 9/11 and Iraq. But if you want to be obstinate, argumentative and trollish, feel free. It's impossible to get banned from MeFi for trolling under the right-wing umbrella.

By: dios

dios — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:25:44 -0800

Rhetorical question: is there anything... no matter how benign.... that this Administration could do that wouldn't create outrage from some people on this website? Pissed because not going to the funeral services of soliders... pissed because throwing a march to support the soliders... pissed because trying to recruit new soliders... pissed because soliders aren't getting rotated off fast enough.... pissed because he isn't pulling troops out.... pissed when it breaks that the troops are coming out...

By: mr_roboto

mr_roboto — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:25:59 -0800

If this is an attempt to rally public support for the war, it's pretty ham-fisted, isn't it?

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:26:16 -0800

I listen to country music dios, Clint Black is about as country as a soundscan ranking. Try harder.

By: dios

dios — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:26:30 -0800

mosch, you are a smart guy. You know damn well that the allusion to Clint Black... a country singer... is a cue.

By: digaman

digaman — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:26:30 -0800

Here's a little number to get those teenage vets dancin' out of their wheelchairs to head back over there and kick some more raghead ass! YOU CAN WAVE YOUR SIGNS IN PROTEST AGAINST AMERICA TAKING STANDS THE STANDS AMERICA'S TAKEN ARE THE REASON THAT YOU CAN IF EVERYONE WOULD GO FOR PEACE THERE'D BE NO NEED FOR WAR BUT WE CAN'T IGNORE THE DEVIL HE'LL KEEP COMING BACK FOR MORE SOME SEE THIS IN BLACK AND WHITE OTHERS ONLY GRAY WE'RE NOT BEGGING FOR A FIGHT NO MATTER WHAT THEY SAY WE HAVE THE RESOLUTION THAT SHOULD PUT'EM ALL TO SHAME BUT IT'S A DIFFERENT KIND OF DEADLINE WHEN I'M CALLED IN THE GAME CHORUS I RAQ, I RACK'EM UP AND I ROLL I'M BACK AND I'M A HIGH TECH GI JOE I PRAY FOR PEACE, PREPARE FOR WAR AND I NEVER WILL FORGET THERE'S NO PRICE TOO HIGH FOR FREEDOM SO BE CAREFUL WHERE YOU TREAD THIS TERROR ISN'T MAN TO MAN THEY CAN BE NO MORE THAN COWARDS IF THEY WON'T SHOW US THEIR WEAPONS WE MIGHT HAVE TO SHOW THEM OURS IT MIGHT BE A SMART BOMB THEY FIND STUPID PEOPLE TOO AND IF YOU STAND WITH THE LIKES OF SADDAM ONE JUST MIIGHT FIND YOU CHORUS II I ROCK, I RACK'EM UP AND I ROLL I'M BACK AND I'M A HIGH TECH GI JOE I'VE GOT INFRARED, I'VE GOT GPS AND I'VE GOT THAT GOOD OLD FASHIONED LEAD THERE'S NO PRICE TOO HIGH FOR FREEDOM SO BE CAREFUL WHERE YOU TREAD BRIDGE NOW YOU CAN COME ALONG OR YOU CAN STAY BEHIND OR YOU CAN GET OUT OF THE WAY BUT OUR TROOPS TAKE OUT THE GARBAGE FOR THE GOOD OLD U.S.A. I ROCK, I RACK'EM UP AND I ROLL IN THE USA I ROCK, I RACK'EM UP AND I ROLL I'M TALKIN' ABOUT THE USA -- "I Raq and Roll," Clint Black [mp3 link]

By: wendell

wendell — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:28:25 -0800

I'm with MotherTucker. Surely somebody can come up with a counter-event for 9/11 that the rest of us can get behind.

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:28:32 -0800

If they did something benign, I wouldn't be outraged, they're the very model of a modern mega-malignancy.

By: cog_nate

cog_nate — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:28:38 -0800

C'mon guys, unzip your hearts and walk for freedom!

By: dios

dios — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:28:57 -0800

I'm not trolling by asking these questions---I am being serious. I am trying to figure out why people would get pissed off at a walk that is intended to show support for our troops. There is no good reason to be angry about an attempt to show solidarity and support for people who lives are on the line. If you don't agree with them being over there, fine. But to be angry over the attempts at others to show support is nonsensical.

By: wakko

wakko — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:29:06 -0800

This kind of jingoistic bullshit is precisely why I want to be able to decide where my tax dollars are spent. I'd happily spend the extra few days it would take to fill out the forms specifying exactly where. Donald Rumsfeld is doing his part to make America suck more every day.

By: mr_roboto

mr_roboto — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:29:16 -0800

dios writes "Rhetorical question: is there anything... no matter how benign.... that this Administration could do that wouldn't create outrage from some people on this website? " Catch Osama bin Laden. Remember him?

By: Dr_Johnson

Dr_Johnson — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:31:53 -0800

I am trying to figure out why people would get pissed off at a walk that is intended to show support for our troops The fact that is being done with taxpayer money in a time of budget deficits and record defense spending, for one. Also, it reeks of propaganda in the worst possible way.

By: MarvinTheCat

MarvinTheCat — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:32:58 -0800

Subway is one of their sponsors. I informed them earlier today that I'll no longer be patronizing their establishments. Lockheed Martin is a sponsor also, though I'm not quite sure how avoid that one.

By: MotherTucker

MotherTucker — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:33:25 -0800

I'm really quite serious. I hate the way 9/11 has become National Terror Day. We're giving up all our power to the government by allowing them to keep reminding us of something we NEVER will forget anyway. When I walk past a firestation, I almost feel the way I used to when passing a church. It is a holy place. Those men and women died just doing their job. Let's thank 'em again and again.

By: dios

dios — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:34:03 -0800

It's a WALK! How much does a WALK cost. And it has corporate sponsors. And I bet Clint Black is playing for free (or a small fee).

By: wakko

wakko — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:34:20 -0800

But to be angry over the attempts at others to show support is nonsensical. That's a pretty red herring. I (and, I am certain, everyone else here) have no problem with a march in support of our troops. But, holding it on the fourth anniversary of 9/11 seems more than a little shady, given that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. It's out of place and will only give people the wrong idea, serving only to further equate what should be two separate and distinct concepts.

By: Dr_Johnson

Dr_Johnson — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:34:28 -0800

Lockheed Martin is a sponsor also, though I'm not quite sure how avoid that one I for one have decided not to buy planes.

By: mr_roboto

mr_roboto — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:35:32 -0800

And I'm looking into alternate sources for my cruise missles!

By: digaman

digaman — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:37:36 -0800

Dios, I know you're being intentionally thick-headed, because I actually read all your posts, but I'll try to explain this to you very patiently. The reason why this upsets some people is because they believe that our troops were sent to Iraq under false premises (WMDs and a connection to 9/11 are the two most flagrant), which means that a bunch of great American kids -- who I have visited at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, recently returned from Iraq with missing limbs and brain injuries -- are making heroic sacrifices for a government that doesn't deserve it. Thus, protesting this particular war -- and making sure that an administration this morally bankrupt never gets into office again -- may be the most patriotic, most respectful-of-the-troops thing you could possibly do.

By: Danf

Danf — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:38:04 -0800

Wonkette's take on it. . .

By: fenriq

fenriq — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:39:42 -0800

dios, read this slowly. Saddam Hussein did not have anything to do with 9/11. Having a walk on 9/11 to honor the soldiers dying in Iraq is attempting, yet again, to connect 9/11 with Saddam Hussein. 9/11 was not about Iraq, it has never been about Iraq. This is such an ugly and blatant attempt to smear a tragedy with more lies because, apparently, Bush either can't or won't catch bin Laden (I'm leaning towards won't because he's such good business friends with bin Laden's family). That you refuse to see the mockery that this is tells me you're either intentionally being obtuse or have your head so far up the administration's ass to think this shit smells like roses.

By: fenriq

fenriq — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:40:57 -0800

By the way, I really like the idea of doing something for the local firehouse on 9/11. Maybe something for the local police station as well.

By: Armitage Shanks

Armitage Shanks — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:42:00 -0800

And I bet Clint Black is playing for free (or a small fee). The majority of Americans now believe that it was a mistake to go into Iraq. Given that, how is Clint Black's jingoistic drivel above anything other than one giant troll? I'm only asking you because of your expertise.

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:42:53 -0800

...which means that a bunch of great American kids -- who I have visited at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, recently returned from Iraq with missing limbs and brain injuries -- are making heroic sacrifices for a government that doesn't deserve it. Thus, protesting this particular war Fucking dig it, digaman. My sister's ex-boyfriend just got hisself blown up over there and he's getting all the carepackages and visits and moral support that my entire lefty till death AMERICAN PATRIOT family can sustain. And the people who sent him there to lose his legs are getting all the venom and activism and prayers for their eventual imprisonment that my lefty till death AMERICAN PATRIOT family can sustain.

By: showmethecalvino

showmethecalvino — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:43:25 -0800

Subway is one of their sponsors. I informed them earlier today that I'll no longer be patronizing their establishments. People actually eat at Subway?

By: Dr_Johnson

Dr_Johnson — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:43:48 -0800

It's a WALK! How much does a WALK cost O.K., let's pass the costs. I personally get suspicious of a rally held on 9/11 that is all about supporting troops in Iraq. This seems like a sneaky way of reenforcing a questionable line of argument used by this administration as a rationale for military action. because it commemorates victims at the same time it praises the administration's current strategy, it doesn't allow for reasoned differences of opinion (because attacking the administration's rationale gets equated with attacking the troops, as well as the victims of the Trade Center bombings). This therefore has all the markings of propaganda: state-sanctioned (and funded) publication of a particular ideological position.

By: MarvinTheCat

MarvinTheCat — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:44:32 -0800

I for one have decided not to buy planes. That I can easily avoid, Dr_Johnson, it's the ones I already have that I don't know what to do with.

By: cleardawn

cleardawn — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:45:51 -0800

Dios, the reason this particular act is obscene is because it is: (a) another attempt to fool the dumber 50% of Americans into believing that there is some link between 9/11 and Iraq. (b) another attempt to make Rummy and friends look tough and military, while ignoring the fact that they sit on their fat comfortable asses and send other people's children off to die (c) an attempt to celebrate US state terrorism and the deaths of thousands of people - something that should, most people would feel, be mourned, not celebrated, though perhaps you are really, seriously, senseless enough not to see that. ... there are probably more, but that will do for now. What would it take for you, Dios, to accept that Bush and Rumsfeld are war criminals and crooks? What would they have to do before you would accept and admit that obvious truth?

By: Slothrup

Slothrup — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:45:51 -0800

I am trying to figure out why people would get pissed off at a walk that is intended to show support for our troops. You're not stupid enough to believe that the primary goal is to show support for the troops. The real point is propaganda -- it's for the people at home, not the people in Iraq. Now, in and of itself, there's nothing wrong with *that*, either, except that this Administration has done no shortage of things that show how little they really do care about the troops. Insufficient equipment and slashing of veterans' benefits are just the tip of that iceberg.

By: substrate

substrate — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:46:45 -0800

Subway is one of their sponsors. I informed them earlier today that I'll no longer be patronizing their establishments. Lockheed Martin is a sponsor also, though I'm not quite sure how avoid that one. posted by MarvinTheCat at 2:32 PM PST on August 10 [!]

That's easy, buy your missile systems elsewhere. I know I will.

By: MotherTucker

MotherTucker — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:48:56 -0800

fenriq, yep, firestation, policestation, EMS workers, sanitation workers. Let's bring them a plate of cookies.

By: BobFrapples

BobFrapples — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:50:45 -0800

This walk is pathetic... as is Clint Black. But I guaran-fucking-tee you they will eat this shit up in the "Heartland".

By: COBRA!

COBRA! — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:51:32 -0800

Lockheed Martin is a sponsor also, though I'm not quite sure how avoid that one. There's an SR-71 on display in St. Paul, and I'm totally going to sneak over and spray-paint "lemon" all over it. That'll show 'em.

By: wendell

wendell — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:53:17 -0800

fenriq, MotherTucker, I will be there with cookies, but I still think somebody ought to start organizing something to directly counter the March of a Few Thousand Cynical Asshats. After all, it's just a WALK. Like the ones they call out the riot police for...

By: Slothrup

Slothrup — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:55:51 -0800

But I guaran-fucking-tee you they will eat this shit up in the "Heartland". I wouldn't count on it. People are pretty good at smelling desperation. This event smacks of "jumping the shark" to me.

By: Rothko

Rothko — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:56:23 -0800

Freedom costs a buck o' five.

By: gigawhat?

gigawhat? — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:56:49 -0800

Freedom is on the _____. a. stroll b. saunter c. amble d. promenade

By: MarvinTheCat

MarvinTheCat — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:57:48 -0800

But I guaran-fucking-tee you they will eat this shit up in the "Heartland". Hi, Missouri here. There's a lot of us quite full of their shit at this point.

By: BobFrapples

BobFrapples — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:01:49 -0800

But I guaran-fucking-tee you they will eat this shit up in the "Heartland". Let me amend my previous statement... ...IF they also happen to be wearing an embroidered or puffy paint sweatshirt with a Teddy Bear/Kitty Kat/American Flag on it.

By: Pollomacho

Pollomacho — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:01:53 -0800

I'm leaning towards won't because he's such good business friends with bin Laden's family Whoa now, I was with you until here. Bush's impotence in capturing ObL has nothing to do with the supposed family connection. Bringing in ObL would require pissing off the warlords in Northern Pakistan (where he is camped out) and thereby bringing down the tenuous regime there. Let's just get that sorted out before our tin foil hats get too tight!

By: Finder

Finder — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:03:33 -0800

Jesu Christo, tu padre es un mejor ...h.le...

By: MotherTucker

MotherTucker — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:03:33 -0800

The government will turn any walk, march, etc. into a police action, looked over by swat-team-outfitted, machine gun toting national guardsmen. Ignore the fuckers. They've been getting far too much attention for far too long. Bake a plate of cookies. Kiss a sanitation worker. Bring a bouquet of flowers to the police station. We have to get back our humanity someway.

By: fenriq

fenriq — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:06:20 -0800

Slothrup, you have more faith than many of us, myself included, in the heartland. I would love to be proven wrong but I have little expectation that those in the middle states can see beyond the stream of lies. Marvinthecat, good to hear! Let's hear more of it! Pollomacho, his business ties with the bin Laden family are well known, he allowed 30 odd members of the family to leave the US after 9/11 without even interviewing them. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it is just incompetence but I wouldn't bet against it. And its not a tin foil hat issue, this is publicly known business dealing with the Carlyle Group in Saudi Arabia and with the bin Ladens.

By: tarantula

tarantula — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:07:30 -0800

i just called the number at the bottom of the DOD web site and spoke with a very nice man. He seemed to be quite baffled about it as well, but being that he was sitting in the Pentagon, he couldn't say much, tho he started by saying "I am glad you called. I was nodding off to sleep". anyway, i think these cats have mistaken themselves for comic book super heros.

By: daq

daq — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:08:49 -0800

I agree with MotherTucker's sentiment. However. I get the feeling that if enough of the wonderful reactionaries (on the left) get wind of this, they will probably try and organize some kind of counter-march, what-have-you. And of course, the left is very good at attracting the fun-pigs. And all fun-pigs need is for someone to start to FSU and it will be a party. I can't wait for that one. I love a good riot (provided I'm a) not caught in front of the police line b) not getting pummelled by a mob of idiots c) watching from a safe distance and upwind from the whole deal when the tear gas cannisters start popping).

By: 3.2.3

3.2.3 — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:09:27 -0800

You know damn well that the allusion to Clint Black... a country singer... is a cue. well, it sure reads that way in the DOD press release: "At the conclusion of the walk, participants will be invited to a concert by country music singer and songwriter Clint Black." sounds like a pretty clear cue to me. as in, cue dumbfuck lemmings to march in support of a lie. are you still having problems" trying to figure out why people would get pissed off at a walk?" that was pretty funny. can you do that again? don't change a thing. you really enrich this place. and i know you enjoy it.

By: fungible

fungible — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:09:35 -0800

So let me get this straight: We get our cheesy, exploitative, overcommercialized Super Bowl halftime special twice this year? Oh, I'm in heaven.

By: mcsweetie

mcsweetie — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:10:05 -0800

It's a WALK! How much does a WALK cost somebody (aka you and I) has to pay for everyone's transportation, security, food, and entertainment (Clint Black may be playing for free (which I doubt), but what about his sound and stage techs?). there's probably going to be a few compensated speakers with corresponding compensated "supporters." the fact that it's outdoors doesn't necessarily make it any cheaper than a rented building. although, it's all chump change compared to the money we've stuffed into garbage bags and burned in Iraq.

By: Satapher

Satapher — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:12:55 -0800

how much does a $100 hammer cost?

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:13:00 -0800

It'd be nice to have a counter march though... Or at least a bomb threat called in (use a payphone) so that their options are to cancel it or march with super-heavy security (thus making them look all extra fascist). But then again, America loves the look of fascism...

By: caporal

caporal — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:39:47 -0800

Someone should read this out loud at the "walk": The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty. Kudos to George Washington.

By: parallax7d

parallax7d — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:41:04 -0800

Klang why are you suggesting someone call in a bomb threat? To put down America?

By: Balisong

Balisong — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:44:04 -0800

Freedom on the Mosey. I wonder how many gallons of pepper spray, tazers, and rubber bullets they plan on bringing to this propaganda fest? And who is taking bets that they get used?

By: Clay201

Clay201 — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:45:50 -0800

The problem with the term "support our troops" is that - just like pretty much every other term used in the Iraq/Afghanistan discussions that take place on TV and in the blogosphere - it doesn't actually have a definition. I mean, seriously. Let's say that I want to "support our troops". What's the first thing I should do? Send them some cookies? Send them some armor? Write them a letter of grattitude each time they kill an Iraqi? Write to Congress, demanding more money be spent on treating injured vets? Carry a sign in an anti-war protest? Write letters to the editor arguing that the invasion of Iraq is necessary to protect our freedom? Give money to the GOP? Spend an hour each day online belittling and sneering at anti-war activists? Because almost every single one of these actions has been carried out by someone who says they are "supporting our troops."

By: melissa may

melissa may — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:46:00 -0800

It'd be nice to have a counter march though... And here's what I most sincerely would like to see: People marching, dressed not in colorful costumes or pounding drums, but in formal clothing, especially suits -- sober dark ones, like the Mattachine Society used to wear to protest for gay civil rights. No cartoons, no obscene anti-Bush slogans, just black and white signs that show support for the military by doing what digaman and others upthread have done -- linking their deaths to the malignant government policies that caused them. No screaming, no yelling -- just line after line of silent people holding well-written signs that do all the speaking for them. Think of the power of that image: A large group of somberly dressed Americans gathered together with enough discipline to make sure the day isn't about them and how colorfully they can express themselves, who conduct themselves with the sorrow and dignity associated with funerals. Because that's what this rally purports to do -- hold a political jamboree on the graves of the 9/11 dead, the war dead. There is no way to respond in kind without contributing to the horror of it.

By: elwoodwiles

elwoodwiles — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:00:30 -0800

melissa may: well said.

By: pieoverdone

pieoverdone — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:03:46 -0800

I mean, seriously. Let's say that I want to "support our troops". What's the first thing I should do? Send them some cookies? Send them some armor? I support the troops every two weeks when the government takes a chunk out of my paycheck for taxes.

By: fire&wings

fire&wings — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:07:26 -0800

I.N.T.E.L.L.I.G.E.N.C.E. is down! I repeat, we have no I.N.T.E.L.L.I.G.E.N.C.E.!

By: dash_slot-

dash_slot- — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:07:35 -0800

Oh, now that it's clear what folks objections are, dios is nowhere to be seen. Colour me surprised.

By: NewBornHippy

NewBornHippy — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:08:00 -0800

Operatoin Cake Walk.

By: mrgrimm

mrgrimm — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:11:21 -0800

Now look, there is no proof that Saddam had anything to do with 9/11 in terms of planning or funding the attacks, but you know he was psyched, really really psyched that it happened. Maybe you know something we don't? This event smacks of "jumping the shark" to me Indeed. If it weren't for all the money they've apparently spent on it, I'd bet they cancel it. They also shouldn't have called it the American Supports You Freedom Walk. It looks like a typo (Your for You). line after line of silent people holding well-written signs that do all the speaking for them That's a terrific idea, melissa may, but only government-approved signs will be allowed. It is nice of them to arrange a protest march for us, however.

By: Tryptophan-5ht

Tryptophan-5ht — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:14:45 -0800

this is a wonderful idea. ....cause really - 9/11 should be about public servants and their heroism that day. dios - the problem isn't the price of the walk. It just reeks of frenzied patriotism literally orchestrated by the government - which is plus ungood.

By: 235w103

235w103 — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:18:46 -0800

melissa may: I'm in. Let's do this thing.

By: designbot

designbot — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:19:00 -0800

Anybody else think "America Supports You Freedom Walk" looks like somebody forgot to type an "r"?

By: mishaco

mishaco — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:21:56 -0800

now that theres a circus , all i need is some bread .

By: MarvinTheCat

MarvinTheCat — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:31:34 -0800

Melissa May: My wife and I would fly up from St. Louis to take part in something like what you describe. I've never organized anything larger than a game of euchre in my life though. How could we, and by we I mean any MeFite who cares and anybody else, get this thing going? Question for the general population: not to derail, but I was in Washington in the summer of 2002, and the jersey barriers surrounding everything made me indescribably sad. Is it still that way, or have they integrated more aesthetically pleasing security measures yet? I realize it can never go back to how it was.

By: DougieZero1982

DougieZero1982 — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:41:38 -0800

So this is a hoax right???.... right?

By: melissa may

melissa may — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:53:00 -0800

Well MarvinTheCat, we're in the same boat. I've never organized anything political that was as successful as my grandma's bridge club. I would imagine something like what I described best taking place in NYC -- perhaps with everyone bringing baskets of cookies for the firehouses and police stations for afterwards, because MotherTrucker's idea is too excellent to waste. If it can be organized, I'll do my utmost to fly in from KS in my most respectable dress and participate. How to convince the people who really love costuming and color is certainly tricky, too. I'd hate to show up scrubbed and pressed only to have the ladies who wear the missile bikinis shove us all out of the way for their close-ups.

By: zoogleplex

zoogleplex — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:57:27 -0800

I wonder where they'll put the Free Speech Zones for this one? Virginia or Maryland? Probably more like Nashville and Syracuse.

By: lord_wolf

lord_wolf — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 17:00:38 -0800

melissa may, what you have described is similar to the strategy employed by mlk jr and the slcc (i may be butchering that initialization...). they used to have rules for everyeone in their marches: you were to be well-groomed and wear your "sunday best," you did not confront the police and you did not engage in altercations with counter-protesters. anyone who couldn't follow those rules was asked not to participate. i'd love to see a retrurn to that style of protesting instead of this "dude! i totally got shot with rubber bullets and threw some punches at the fucking pigs and screamed about how bush is totally like hitler!!!1111" attitude that mars too many anti-bush admin. movement events.

By: kirkaracha

kirkaracha — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 17:04:51 -0800

You probably thought "Support the Troops" had something to do with supporting the troops. It doesn't. It means "blindly support the president." It means "Fuck the Troops." I support the troops. I support not sending them off to die for lies. I support giving them the (hopefully non-faulty) body armor and armored vehicles they need in an urban combat setting. (Why the fuck are the Marines telling people to buy their own body armor two years into a war? Why the fuck is there still a shortage of armored vehicles?) I support not trying to cut their health care during a war. I support not trying to cut their combat pay during a war. I support funding the Department of Veteran's Affairs. I oppose the president. I oppose the war. I support the troops.

By: Optimus Chyme

Optimus Chyme — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 17:27:47 -0800

Or at least a bomb threat called in (use a payphone) so that their options are to cancel it or march with super-heavy security (thus making them look all extra fascist). This is actually a worse idea than the march itself; I didn't know that was possible. Thanks, klang.

By: footnote

footnote — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 17:37:11 -0800

Melissa May - I like the idea too. I'll be living in DC by then, so I'm happy to help coordinate (email in my profile). Everyone interested should probably preregister now. The one problem is visibility -- we still need to make ourselves known beyond the somber clothes. I'm guessing they won't allow in any signs at all for safety reasons.

By: nixerman

nixerman — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 17:37:33 -0800

Well, this is one way to try to shore up approval for the Iraq war. Link it 9/11 (again). Maybe they'll show a bunch of video clips with the flag and dust and dead people. What really concerns me is that this looks to be a blatant case of the Pentagon using propaganda to shore up support for a failed military operation. You've got realize just how bad things have gotten when the officers are on the streets asking people to support the war.

By: melissa may

melissa may — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 17:45:22 -0800

The one problem is visibility -- we still need to make ourselves known beyond the somber clothes. I'm guessing they won't allow in any signs at all for safety reasons. That's exactly why it should be in NYC, where 9/11 happened, as opposed to DC, where 9/11 is being exploited.

By: bardic

bardic — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 18:01:12 -0800

I guarantee that this PR stunt will cost millions, corporate sponsorship aside, in terms of overtime for cops, EMS, capitol police, park police, etc. And guess what? Bush won't have the decency to pay for any of it--these little soirees are paid for by D.C. residents, very much against their will. In Dick Cheney's words, it's pretty much "Go fuck yourself" to the mostly Democratic, mostly black citizens of the district.

By: realcountrymusic

realcountrymusic — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 18:12:07 -0800

If this thread turns into a discussion of country music, it will be the third time TODAY that trolldios has succeeded in changing the subject of a MeFi thread. The terrorist has won. That's the insurgency, buddy . . . I'm Takin My Country Back (song by David Kent, performed by Tony Stampley, aka Honky Tonkers for Truth. See also here for the story of the song and check out the Music Row Democrats. Check it out.

By: realcountrymusic

realcountrymusic — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 18:24:22 -0800

Whoops, missed a tag. I meant: check out Music Row Democrats.

By: kuatto

kuatto — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 18:35:51 -0800

I think people in the DC area should show up in droves with signs that read: "9/11 has nothing to do with Iraq" Are they going to limit our 'Freedom' to walk???

By: hackly_fracture

hackly_fracture — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 18:57:38 -0800

kuatto, yes. (but I'd be interested in the somber protest idea, if that becomes a thing)

By: Hactar

Hactar — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:22:08 -0800

Ok, so I can't make it to a protest that day. How unethical does it sound if I say, volunteer (not register to walk, but volunteer to help out, say pass out T-shirt or something) as 500 people for the day or the march? I've got some time to kill now.

By: ParisParamus

ParisParamus — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:28:54 -0800

This doesn't float by boat, but doesn't sink it either. What's the big deal? I don't get it. Why are so many of you so....

By: yhbc

yhbc — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:33:15 -0800

SAY IT!!!! "AN-TI-American".

By: I EAT TAPES

I EAT TAPES — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 20:09:37 -0800

TROLLING IN PROGRESS. DO NOT TAKE THE BAIT.

By: ParisParamus

ParisParamus — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 20:17:09 -0800

Good luck in getting a President elected you actually "don't hate." Probably not in your lifetime. Have you considered immigration?

By: Balisong

Balisong — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 20:25:18 -0800

I'd settle for a president I don't hate. Why do we keep getting cocknoggins to run for the job?

By: digaman

digaman — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:04:08 -0800

dios is nowhere to be seen Dios and I took our conversation offline, in fact to an ancient voice-to-voice device known as the telephone, and guess what? He's a good guy -- smart, earnest, and so forth. Believe me, I wouldn't have believed it either; allow me to make the friendly and understated suggestion that sometimes his own posts don't do him justice. Color me surprised. But yes, we had a very civil, humane, engaging, mutually enlightening conversation. And he took the first step, so Thanks Dios.

By: ParisParamus

ParisParamus — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:27:19 -0800

By: Balisong

Balisong — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:29:45 -0800

OK, let's cut the cocknoggin's power down a notch or four that he's gratuitously grabbed for himself over the past several years. I probably wouldn't mind Bush as a powerless cocknoggin. I'd probably hardly give him a second thought.

By: diastematic

diastematic — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:37:58 -0800

seems a little late to offer, but i own "fixthewar.com" and "fixthewar.org" -- and would be happy to give the url up to anyone who can do something uniquely constructive with it.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:53:32 -0800

...When reminded that Americans traditionally celebrate the sacrifices of their military with Memorial Day and Veterans' Day parades, Rumsfeld appeared genuinely puzzled. "But those parades are in May and November," he said, furrowing his brow "This one is on September 11th in a year where the President's Iraq War approval rating is in the 30s." ...

By: wakko

wakko — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 22:24:25 -0800

"cocknoggins".

By: MarvinTheCat

MarvinTheCat — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 22:45:55 -0800

Dios and I took our conversation offline, in fact to an ancient voice-to-voice device known as the telephone, and guess what? ... we had a very civil, humane, engaging, mutually enlightening conversation. And he took the first step, so Thanks Dios. And this is for why I love the internets. Nice job.

By: strangeleftydoublethink

strangeleftydoublethink — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 22:55:59 -0800

Man Bikes to Raise Money for Troops

By: anthill

anthill — Thu, 11 Aug 2005 01:00:58 -0800

This is a good thread. Here's a joke for melissa may's march: A black man is going to get a vasectomy. He shows up to the doctor's office wearing a suit. The doctor says "Why are you wearing a suit?" The black man says "I just got back from a funeral" Seriously though. Good idea. If I was a US citizen I'd be all over it. Go for it and get the meme on TV.

By: anthill

anthill — Thu, 11 Aug 2005 01:04:47 -0800

You only think our "cocknoggins" are worse than foreign "cocknoggins" because other countries' "cocknoggins" are relatively powerless. So you perceive them as more competent, when they're really just equally incompetent, only there power is trivial. You're right in general, Paris, lots of people do think that. Congratulations for having a better government than some countries, like Russia. Now is it too unreasonable to hold the US government to a higher standard? Hell, I'm Canadian and I expect better of your country and citizens.

By: fandango_matt

fandango_matt — Thu, 11 Aug 2005 03:34:13 -0800

said wendell: Surely somebody can come up with a counter-event for 9/11 that the rest of us can get behind. I'm going to attend the march, wrap myself in an American flag, and sit in a vat of lemon Jello.

By: dios

dios — Thu, 11 Aug 2005 09:39:33 -0800

Dios and I took our conversation offline, in fact to an ancient voice-to-voice device known as the telephone, and guess what? He's a good guy -- smart, earnest, and so forth. Believe me, I wouldn't have believed it either; allow me to make the friendly and understated suggestion that sometimes his own posts don't do him justice. Color me surprised. But yes, we had a very civil, humane, engaging, mutually enlightening conversation. And he took the first step, so Thanks Dios. posted by digaman at 9:04 PM PST on August 10 Let me also say that digaman was not nearly the ultra-rightwing conservative fascistic extremist he appears to be here on Metafilter Rather I think his kind words above were describing him in spades. However, digaman, you left out the part about the phone sex. The sweet, sweet phone sex. Other people should feel free to contact me to confirm their suspicion that digaman must have been drunk. Thanks, as well.

By: Floydd

Floydd — Thu, 11 Aug 2005 10:12:47 -0800

Geez, can you feel the love in this thread? It's kinda sticky.

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Thu, 11 Aug 2005 10:15:11 -0800

It would be really nice if people here were to finally realize that dios is quite smart and presents an usually intelligent counterpoint view on topics that are worth considering. He is not a useless PP/Shouting/etc type.

By: Secret Life of Gravy

Secret Life of Gravy — Thu, 11 Aug 2005 10:17:42 -0800

"I've never heard of such a thing," said John Pike, who has been a defense analyst in Washington for 25 years and runs GlobalSecurity.org. He has never heard of such a thing because this isn't American. In America we don't have parades to drum up government support by glorifying war and death. That is something they did in the old Soviet Union, and that is exactly how I am picturing this event: Soldiers goose stepping in uniforms through the streets of the nation's capitol waving banners and flags proclaiming how Glorious is the Mother Country! Death to all Traitors! Long Live our Heroic Leader!

By: fenriq

fenriq — Thu, 11 Aug 2005 10:34:39 -0800

five fresh fish, that's just the thing. I know dios is bright and well capable of an articulate argument. That's why the pseudo-trollish comments are so much more grating, I know he's capable of much better. dios, thank goodness digaman recorded the phone sex and posted it here with the happy finish.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Thu, 11 Aug 2005 10:43:19 -0800

Exactly, Secret. (altho i'm betting this gets cancelled--a concert and parade celebrating 9/11 and our dead troops? Not going to happen)

By: amberglow

amberglow — Thu, 11 Aug 2005 10:46:25 -0800

MotherTucker's idea way up high is wonderful--turn it into a day to honor those in our communities who save us each day.

By: schoolgirl report

schoolgirl report — Thu, 11 Aug 2005 10:54:08 -0800

Dios and I took our conversation offline, in fact to an ancient voice-to-voice device known as the telephone, and guess what? He's a good guy -- smart, earnest, and so forth. He is not a useless PP/Shouting/etc type. Well shoot, now we're going to have to summon Bevets instead.

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Thu, 11 Aug 2005 12:14:15 -0800

Rather more North Korean in flavour, not Soviet, IMO. Dear Leader just loves to march his soldiers up and down the square.

By: Jatayu das

Jatayu das — Thu, 11 Aug 2005 12:59:29 -0800

The troops being "supported" are in a desert half a world away, and won't even be aware that there is a party being thrown in their honor. This will be about as useful to them as sticking a magnet on your car with a slogan on it.

By: bardic

bardic — Thu, 11 Aug 2005 16:41:52 -0800

WaPo on another event coming to DC, including Thievery Corporation, Le Tigre, Steve Earle, and others. Politics aside, this is going to sound a lot better than Rummie's propoganda-fest.

By: Balisong

Balisong — Thu, 11 Aug 2005 19:08:51 -0800

I can't wait to call dios for raunchy phone sex!! RAUNCHY PHONE SEX! I'm gonna wear my special chaps!

By: amberglow

amberglow — Fri, 12 Aug 2005 06:04:26 -0800

Carpetbagger: How 'free' will our 'Freedom Walk' be? --...to participate in the "Freedom Walk," you'll need to register with the Department of Defense. Participants are encouraged to arrive at the Pentagon South parking lot between 7 a.m. and 8 a.m. for screening to avoid long lines. The first 1,000 to arrive for screening at the Pentagon on September 11, will receive the official America Supports You campaign lapel pin. And while I'm certain it's a handsome lapel pin, what, exactly, does "screening" mean? Indeed, the event's organizers (Rumsfeld's Defense Department) have set up an online registration form that explains, "The Freedom Walk is free and open to anyone who registers…. You MUST have your registration number to check-in!" That's right, in order to participate in a government-sponsored "Freedom Walk" on public streets past public monuments, from one outdoor public landmark to another, you have to give your name address, phone number, and email address to the Pentagon.

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Fri, 12 Aug 2005 09:17:28 -0800

My, the fine art of doublespeak is certainly being perfected by the US Government. A "Freedom Walk" that one can't freely participate in? Fuuuuuuuuck.

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Fri, 12 Aug 2005 09:18:00 -0800

I wonder if the USA will ever recover from this administration.

By: fenriq

fenriq — Tue, 16 Aug 2005 09:27:55 -0800

Looks like the Washington Post is pulling out of sponsoring this farce.

By: umberto

umberto — Thu, 01 Sep 2005 16:23:49 -0800

The people who will cream over this are the same people who are convinced that being against the war means being against the soldiers. A counter-walk would just give them a reason to point and say, "See? They hate our boys." I love our boys. They are generally self-sacrificing, hard-working, moral, upright, foundations upon which the bulwark of our democracy stands. And they are being scammed and murdered. Do what MotherTucker said. Forget the counter-walk. Part of this side's problem is desiring more to be heard than doing something. Despite the administration's lumbering propagandizing, resist the urge to do the same thing on 9/11. Iraq is not the issue that day. The soldiers are different heroes. That day should be for the heroes of 9/11. You want to celebrate a soldier, start talking with one. Or send them something.