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Hurricane exploitation - the quotes
September 3, 2005 7:42 AM   Subscribe

Chrenkoff compiles the most egregious "hurricane exploitation" quotes to come out of the Hurricane Katrina disaster. See also: the tsunami quotes.
posted by jenleigh (97 comments total)

 
Hmmm...seems to be a bit of a slant here.
posted by MrMoonPie at 8:02 AM on September 3, 2005


ahh, nothing like republican morons to get the day started right. thanks, jenleigh, for showing me who you are. welcome to my ignore list.
posted by zaack at 8:02 AM on September 3, 2005


Saying that Bush cut funding, sent the National Guard to Iraq, ignored global warming and spent billions of dollars which led to the loss of tens of thousands of lives is offensive?

I must be reading something written by a conservative blogger.
posted by VulcanMike at 8:03 AM on September 3, 2005


Plucking lameass comments out of blogs to represent an entire political stripe seems pretty intellectually dishonest.

Where are all the quotes from religious folks saying the gays brought the hurricane on, the congressional people saying the place shouldn't be rebuilt, and the pundits saying the mayor of new orleans is completely to blame?

Perhaps I should shuttle off to Free Republic and post what neoconzrule2004 thinks of all this.
posted by mathowie at 8:10 AM on September 3, 2005


Ronald Reagan who, as we all know, served as President from 1980 to 2000...

What the heck? If that's a joke, I don't get it. Can anyone explain?
posted by Western Infidels at 8:11 AM on September 3, 2005


This is pretty lame. Any criticism from those not supporting the present administration (including criticism from "Old Europe") is "hurricane exploitation?" Get a grip.
posted by leftcoastbob at 8:12 AM on September 3, 2005


Great find jenleigh.

"The Terrorist Katrina is One of the Soldiers of Allah, But Not an Adherent of Al-Qaeda"

This is the same sentiment expressed by some Christian leaders - albeit from a slightly different, but not so dissimilar point of view.
posted by three blind mice at 8:14 AM on September 3, 2005


Wow, what a great list! Here are my additions:

“New Orleans now is abortion free. New Orleans now is Mardi Gras free. New Orleans now is free of Southern Decadence and the sodomites, the witchcraft workers, false religion -- it's free of all of those things now," Shanks says. "God simply, I believe, in His mercy purged all of that stuff out of there -- and now we're going to start over again."

And can't forget this one:

"Although the loss of lives is deeply saddening, this act of God destroyed a wicked city." Marcavage said. "From ‘Girls Gone Wild’ to ‘Southern Decadence’, New Orleans was a city that had its doors wide open to the public celebration of sin. May it never be the same."

"Let us pray for those ravaged by this disaster. However, we must not forget that the citizens of New Orleans tolerated and welcomed the wickedness in their city for so long," Marcavage said.


And this, from Franklin Graham, son of Billy Graham:

"Of course, Sean, this happens in a country when we have taken God out of our schools and God out of our society. We don't have a moral standard and we need to put God back into our schools."
posted by longdaysjourney at 8:15 AM on September 3, 2005


I am a fan of your posts, Jenleigh, but couldn't this link have found a home in one of the other Katrina threads?
posted by LarryC at 8:20 AM on September 3, 2005


Plucking lameass comments out of blogs to represent an entire political stripe seems pretty intellectually dishonest.

Good point. And I was just going to call the guy a stupid fucking cunt but you're way is much better. How much longer is the right going to keep whistling in the dark to keep up their spirits?
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 8:22 AM on September 3, 2005


Just some more of charleton rightwing nutter trying to shift (how unusual) blame to liberals...in fact, when congress settles down, and when things improve in impacted states, there will be a number of congressional committees called to find out what went wrong. Skip Kyoto. Skip Nature. Why did it take so long to get a purposeful and efficient mechanism in place? Even Bush noted that things had not worked properly. Now who was/is in charge? Homeland Security? FEMA? what if this had been tgerror attack? etc etc

Badmouthing the liberals is just plain stupid. They did not cut budgets!
posted by Postroad at 8:23 AM on September 3, 2005


We see these kinds of lists compiled for the lunatic right so often that this could be an interesting exercise. But a guy who lumps people genuinely angry about funding cuts in with jihadis is as big a part of the problem as the people he mocks. I generally appreciate your contributions, jenleigh, but this one not so much.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 8:28 AM on September 3, 2005


fair and balanced!
and by the way, the Kennedy hate is interesting -- it reminds me of all those Confederate flags proudly flying in the South on the night of 11/22/1963

anyway, I love that the Internet rightwingers are really shitting themselves now -- the incompetence, the improvisation, and the sheer lack of compassion of this administration is somehow increasingly difficult to defend (well, at least now that Americans are paying the price for it, instead of the usual Iraqis)

even Instapundit, now sooooooooo nervous about "finger-pointing" and "the blame-game". it's the smell of fear, for so many lackeys this is becoming a real uphill struggle.

it's all about wake-up calls: blaming the Kennedys, Carter and the Clintons won't probably cut it, this time. but it's interesting to hear the squealing
posted by matteo at 8:37 AM on September 3, 2005


my guess is bush and company will exploit this situation as things start to improve...and try to come off as the savior(s).
posted by brandz at 8:43 AM on September 3, 2005


I'm pretty sure that God was trying to punish Clinton for bringing dishonor to the white house.
posted by mosch at 8:46 AM on September 3, 2005


I am a fan of your posts, Jenleigh, but couldn't this link have found a home in one of the other Katrina threads?

LarryC there are already enough Katrina threads to weave a rug. What's wrong with one more?

I generally appreciate your contributions, jenleigh, but this one not so much.

What's the matter Armitage_Shanks? Does it make you uncomfortable that there are as many nutters on the Left saying stupid things as on the Right?

Blind ideology coming from the Left is as disgusting and as dangerous as that coming from the Right. At the extremes they overlap with each other. The environmentalists who use Katrina as justification for their views on a vengeful Nature are every bit as goofy as the religious right who use Katrina to justify their views about a vengeful God.
posted by three blind mice at 8:48 AM on September 3, 2005


So let me get this straight:

On the one hand, we have a rational attempt to discuss the logical connection between possible global climate change and hurricane strength and frequency--a connection backed by mathematical modeling (itself based on 100's of years of physics), considerable empirical evidence, and the vast bulk of expert opinion.

And this is treated the same as an attempt to connect hurricanes with avenging sky fetuses, the existence of people who like to dance around trees naked during full moons, whether or not men in your neighborhood have a preference for buggering each other in private, and similar "values" issues. The only logic in the latter claims is the internal logic self interest, denial of cognitive dissonance, psychological projection, fear, and at times outright hatred--in short, the logic of myth.

If one ever needed a compelling demonstration of why the inchoherent froth of rightist ideology is doomed to failure, it is preposterous false equivalences like this one.


posted by mondo dentro at 8:48 AM on September 3, 2005


Here's another one:

Bill O'Reilly, on his show last night: "A lot of the people -- a lot of the people who stayed wanted to do this destruction. They figured it out. And that's -- I'm not surprised."
posted by longdaysjourney at 8:49 AM on September 3, 2005


my guess is bush and company will exploit this situation as things start to improve...and try to come off as the savior(s).

No shit. Even after the major fuckups of 9/11 and the really horrific wmd fuckup, Bush declared himself the hero. With all that practice, declaring himself the hero of this debacle should be a piece of cake.

And the people who believe the piece-of-crap post like this one are going to be the first in line to lick his boots over his masterful handling of a major disaster.
posted by leftcoastbob at 8:49 AM on September 3, 2005


ahh, nothing like republican morons to get the day started right. thanks, jenleigh, for showing me who you are. welcome to my ignore list.

MeFi: Only liberal morons are acceptable.
posted by Carbolic at 8:49 AM on September 3, 2005


What a disaster it would be if we didn't have Chrenkoff checking the rhetorical excesses and harsh criticisms of jihadists, DU users and Germany's environmental minister. Hundreds of thousands would be imperiled! Entire cities could be wiped off the map!

Unlikely heroes often emerge during a time of dire need, and Hurricane Katrina is no exception. In the face of chaos, uncertainty and staggering losses, a conservative blogger has emerged from the shadows to shine a bright light on what could be the most shocking aspect of this catastrophe. Something so important, yet in danger of being overlooked as trivia -- people had things to say on the internets, and not all of them were full of sycophantic praise for his beloved favorite politician!

Some of them were even (gasp...the HORROR!)..."angry" about what has occurred!

Incredible! Unimaginable! Well, their credibility is shot to hell now. I mean -- look how wrong they are, compared to the awesome insight and perfection of the man they've taken to task, his policies and actions.

[/sarcasm] [/disdain]
posted by edverb at 8:51 AM on September 3, 2005


What's the matter Armitage_Shanks? Does it make you uncomfortable that there are as many nutters on the Left saying stupid things as on the Right?

Sigh. Even given the relatively low wattage on this site lately, you're an unusually dim bulb.

I said that it would be an interesting exercise to compile quotes from "nutters on the Left". I objected to the fact that he did such a poor job of it.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 8:57 AM on September 3, 2005


Only liberal morons are acceptable.

Of course, morons are pretty evenly distributed in all populations.

But when liberals are morons, they are morons by reasons of shear stupidity or ignorance.

However, as we have seen repeatedly since "conservatives" became infatuated with the Moron in Chief and his ideology of incoherence, today's right wingers are morons as a matter of principle. This is a lot worse, dontcha think?


posted by mondo dentro at 8:57 AM on September 3, 2005


oh, and I forgot: Uncle Rupert's heroic picture of a compassonate Bush and the "I'LL FIX IT" screaming headline are, if anything, a sign of true fear.
when the Post gets all PRAVDA-like by even its own standards, it means that bad stuff is on the way. that's a bad case of the willies
posted by matteo at 9:00 AM on September 3, 2005


Even given the relatively low wattage on this site lately, you're an unusually dim bulb.

That was unnecessary, but did increase the quality of examples you were looking for.
posted by three blind mice at 9:00 AM on September 3, 2005


MeFi: Liberal morons are better than right wing morons.
posted by Carbolic at 9:06 AM on September 3, 2005


If one ever needed a compelling demonstration of why the inchoherent froth of rightist ideology is doomed to failure, it is preposterous false equivalences like this one.

And if ever one needed an example of condescending liberal self-righteousness, here it is.

The science connecting global warming to Katrina is as tenous as the belief in intelligent design. You are aware, of course, that hurricanes occur with or without global warming? Claiming that Katrina is a result of the failure of the Kyoto protocol is the sort of self-serving, faith-based science that makes a mockery of science. When the right does it, it's inchoerent froth, but when the left does it is incontrovertable scientific fact.

Please, spare me.
posted by three blind mice at 9:08 AM on September 3, 2005


there are as many nutters on the Left saying stupid things as on the Right?

Only there aren't. That's the lamest, most bottom-of-the-barrel list of names I have ever seen. I haven't even heard of most of those people.

Contrast that with the many utterly idiotic quotations from righties, bigots, and our elected officials this week. Many have been posted all over the Katrina threads -- CNN compiled a particularly good example, discussed in this thread from just yesterday. I do hope someone brings a large collection of these statements together to refute BS like this with he damning evidence of idiocy, shortsightedness, and incompetence that they are.
posted by Miko at 9:11 AM on September 3, 2005


it's a pity that apathy, callousness, complacency and lack of concern tend to be silent or low key phenomena, and don't lend themselves to a nifty list of outrageous quotes
posted by pyramid termite at 9:13 AM on September 3, 2005


And the people who believe the piece-of-crap post like this one are going to be the first in line to lick his boots over his masterful handling of a major disaster.

Feeling a little thin-skinned leftcoastbob? It's the response to posts like this that make the MeFi left sound like Freepers. Jenleigh puts up an FPP where some of your heroes make bloody fools of themselves and you defend them like Bushites defend their own fool - by criticising the post instead of fairly and critically examining the content.

Well done Jenleigh for making some people look into the mirror.
posted by three blind mice at 9:19 AM on September 3, 2005


Jonah Goldberg - National Review Online

Several readers complain that it's in fact true that the hurricane will disproportionately affect poor people. I don't really dispute that in the sense most mean it. Yes, the poor will have special hardships. Obviously so. But what I objected to, and still object to, is the reflexive playing of the class card. Is it really true that some middle class retirees who heeded the advice of the government to leave town, only to watch their homes be looted after a lifetime of hardwork for a better life are suffering less than a poor person who lost his rented apartment? What's the metric for measuring this sort of suffering? What about the small businessman who worked his entire life to build something he's proud of? What about the families who lost loved ones, but had the poor taste to make more money than the poverty line?

Whatever happened to the idea that unity in the face of a calamity is an important value? We're all in it together, I guess, except for the poor who are extra-special.

posted by longdaysjourney at 9:20 AM on September 3, 2005


Ok, since we all know how this will play out from the right right, let me sum it up now:

Today: I can't believe the libruls are using the hurricane to make cheap shots against the Bush administration by claiming its policies have hurt the environment and hurt our emergency response infrastructure!

One Month from Now: Libruls need to "get over it" and stop dwelling on the past over the failures that led to the humanitarian catastrophe in the Gulf.
posted by deanc at 9:24 AM on September 3, 2005


Well done Jenleigh for making some people look into the mirror.

do you mean paleocon?
posted by matteo at 9:26 AM on September 3, 2005


Jerry Taylor - National Review Online, defending price gouging.

Anger is surging over the behavior of governmental relief agencies, local law enforcement, the underclass of New Orleans, the National Guard, and the profiteers who are capitalizing on human misery. Regardless of how we feel about the former groups, the assault on profiteering is misguided and counterproductive. The crisis would be shorter and less painful if we accepted without complaint what goes by the epithet of “price gouging.”
posted by longdaysjourney at 9:26 AM on September 3, 2005


(as an aside, Jenleigh, could you add an on-it's-own Katrina tag to make the thread more easily found)
(for better or worse)
posted by NinjaPirate at 9:28 AM on September 3, 2005


add an on-it's-own Katrina tag

the post isn't about Katrina, come on. let's not pretend otherwise. it's about the liberals taking advantage of a tragedy and criticizing unfairly the President's excellent response to the event
posted by matteo at 9:34 AM on September 3, 2005


And if ever one needed an example of condescending liberal self-righteousness, here it is.

Aw. Did I hurt your feelings? Poor baby.

Are you disputing my claim of false equivalence? Or are you just whining because I said it? Seems to be only the latter. And I suggest you look up the word "condescension". See, what I was doing before was making a forceful objection to someone's previous claim, and backing it up. That is not condescension. This, however, is.

So, let's do some more: you are saying that there are just as many liberal morons as rightist ones. I agreed. Now will you acknowledge that there are gobs of self-righteous rightists? It seems to me that we've been treated to a never-ending stream of self-righteous bullshit from the right, ever since the pseudo-libertarians got in bed with the pseudo-Christians to create their pseudo-belief-system.
posted by mondo dentro at 9:36 AM on September 3, 2005


Jenleigh puts up an FPP where some of your heroes make bloody fools of themselves

"Some of your heroes?" Absurd.

If you're looking for the science behind the **possible** connection between global warming and increased frequency/intensity of hurricanes, you may find a published paper by Kerry Emanuel in the August 4th edition of the scientific journal Nature.

The abstract of the article (it's behind a subscription wall) has this to say:
No overall trend in hurricane frequency has been detected so far. But using a new measure of a hurricane power, Kerry Emanuel shows that the destructive potential of tropical cyclones has nearly doubled over the past 30 years, and is highly correlated with tropical sea-surface temperature. Storms are on average lasting longer and developing greater intensity than they did in the mid-1970s. Such a dramatic increase is matter for concern: future global warming would almost certainly increase sea-surface temperatures and hence the destructive potential of tropical cyclones. With populations in coastal areas also on the increase, more people would be at risk than ever before.
But don't even pretend that putting RFK Jr quotes about a controversial theory of a connection between global warming, increased surface temperatures and rising intensity/frequency of hurricanes --- next to Islamic Jihadists and DU users -- is a roundup of "heroes of the left". That's disingenous in the extreme.

On one hand, you have the outright lying, bungling and cluelessness of Bush administration officials who've based their political fortunes on their supposed ability to keep America safe, and preparedness for disaster:
President George W. Bush said, "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees."  Well, no one except the entire world and even Mr. Bill.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice went shoe shopping on Fifth Avenue, but not before she played tennis and yukked it up at Spamalot

The Viceroy in charge of Homeland Security, Michael Chertoff said "We're much better prepared than we've ever been."  I'm not sure if that was before or after he reminded us that September is National Preparedness Month, so be sure to stock up on duct tape.

The head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, Michael D. Brown leapt into action, mustering all the emergency disaster management skills he learned as a lawyer for the International Arabian Horse Association Legal Department (from which he was fired).  His money quote: "Paula, the federal government did not even know about the Convention Center people until today."

The Speaker of the House, Dennis Hastert said, eh, maybe we should just forget all about rebuilding New Orleans.  Because it might cost money and stuff.

The Pentagon, headed by Donald Rumsfeld, reassured America that, yes, the Country music hoedown with Clint Black on September 11th is still on, pard'ner!  And maybe we'll even break the record for the longest line dance.

The head of the Republican National Committee, Ken Mehlman, sent out an email stressing that now---for God's sake, people---NOW is the time when we must repeal that which is causing our country to go down the tubes: the estate tax.

And Vice President Dick Cheney was still on vacation.
And on the other, a roundup of DU users, jihadists, and RFK Jr citing a contention for which there is some support, though it's still controversial.

Who's trying to score political points here? And on what foundation?
posted by edverb at 9:36 AM on September 3, 2005


Jenleigh puts up an FPP where some of your heroes make bloody fools of themselves and you defend them like Bushites defend their own fool

Except, of course, that none of them is my hero. I'm neither defending nor excoriating them; I am merely saying:

This is pretty lame. Any criticism from those not supporting the present administration (including criticism from "Old Europe") is "hurricane exploitation?" Get a grip.

and:

Even after the major fuckups of 9/11 and the really horrific wmd fuckup, Bush declared himself the hero. With all that practice, declaring himself the hero of this debacle should be a piece of cake.
posted by leftcoastbob at 9:38 AM on September 3, 2005


MeFi: Only liberal morons are acceptable.
posted by Carbolic at 11:49 AM EST on September 3 [!]


MeFi: Liberal morons are better than right wing morons.
posted by Carbolic at 12:06 PM EST on September 3 [!]


Carbolic: I have nothing to contribute to the discussion yet enjoy hearing myself talk.
posted by zaack at 9:41 AM on September 3, 2005


Zaack: If you don't get my point I'll expand. Any posting with the slightest conservative slant creates immediate objections charging that the poster or the author of the materials linked is a moron. After I posted my first comment someone almost immediately chimed in with something to the effect of "right wing morons are worse than left wing morons"
posted by Carbolic at 10:01 AM on September 3, 2005


And any posting with a liberal slant gets called out at some point by our right wing friends. Usually with the poster or author being called evil, unpatriotic, baby-eating or maybe, (gasp) gay! So, yes, right wing morons are worse, or at the least certainly more vitriolic.
posted by zaack at 10:06 AM on September 3, 2005


zaack: Your dreaming if you think there isn't an extreme left wing bias at MeFi. It constantly hinders discussion.
posted by Carbolic at 10:15 AM on September 3, 2005


Speaking of RFK, isn't the RFK who said this the same RFK who said this?

Can't be. All the self-serving hypocrites are on the right. No 'not-in-my-backyard' entitlement atitude can be found on the left.
posted by humannature at 10:18 AM on September 3, 2005


zaack: Your dreaming if you think there isn't an extreme left wing bias at MeFi.

Left of the Neocons, maybe - it's more a reflection of how far to the right Bush is than symptomatic of some eeevil Red conspiracy. Calling centrist or moderate right viewpoints 'extreme left wing bias' is like standing in a corner of a room with your face to the wall then yelling at everyone who comes in for sneaking up behind you.
posted by RokkitNite at 10:35 AM on September 3, 2005


Carbolic:

1. I never said there isn't a left bias. In fact, I said the right is worse than the left. That, in and of itself makes me biased, doesn't it? However, there is also a right-wing bias, esp an anti-gay bias that is tolerated here. Which is fine, it is a (mostly) unmoderated discussion board. It is also why I generally don't read this site anymore. I know what those people think, they are wrong (according to me) so I don't feel the need to listen to them anymore. I used to engage the other side. What I found made me sad for the future of our country, so now I pretty much stick to my own and read entertainment gossip instead of "news". Is that sort of disengagement with 50% of the country bad? Sure. Can you judge me for it? Go ahead. I don't really care.

2. My intention was to point out that (and note I am limiting this to people who post on MF) on the whole, the extreme right-wingers here are nastier, more shameless and generally more objectionable human beings at least from their posts than the extreme left wingers.

3. But then again, you can look at my post history and think I just enjoy yelling at people. In reality, I don't read MF that often anymore and certainly don't bother to post for the most part unless someone/something pisses me off.
posted by zaack at 10:36 AM on September 3, 2005


Isn't the salient point of all those quotations that, rather than getting off one's duff and doing something to help, too many prominent people are far too eager to politicize the disaster in the Gulf Coast? And, of course, you can find any number off similarly exploitative quotations from the right--but who cares? If anything, one should take away the lesson from the quotations to not follow their example.
posted by gsh at 10:47 AM on September 3, 2005


Yes, this is a pretty lame collection of quotes, and it doesn't really deserve its own post. But I'm glad to have seen this prize sample of scumbag leftism:

They voted for Bush. These ninnies obviously wanted these policies, and they deserve to live with the consequences of their votes.


I hope the left-leaning types here are as embarrassed about that as they expect right-leaning MeFites to be about the drooling thugs on their side.
posted by languagehat at 10:47 AM on September 3, 2005


languagehat: Of course. That's a stupid statement. The grain of truth is that we as a country did vote for Bush (this time) and he has been systematically dismantling our safety net to pay for Iraq and tax cuts. Should that stop people from donating to help these people? Obviously not. I imagine it hasn't; it certainly hasn't stopped me.
posted by zaack at 10:50 AM on September 3, 2005


Another hit-and-run jenleigh thread. You know, if she actually contributed to her own threads rather than taking a large, stinking dump in the Blue before running away, I'd take her a bit more seriously.
posted by deanc at 10:55 AM on September 3, 2005


the post isn't about Katrina, come on. let's not pretend otherwise. it's about the liberals taking advantage of a tragedy and criticizing unfairly the President's excellent response to the event

i DARE you to say that to someone who's been in new orleans in the past week ... i DARE you
posted by pyramid termite at 10:58 AM on September 3, 2005


Zaack: If you don't get my point I'll expand. Any posting with the slightest conservative slant creates immediate objections charging that the poster or the author of the materials linked is a moron. After I posted my first comment someone almost immediately chimed in with something to the effect of "right wing morons are worse than left wing morons"
posted by Carbolic


So not true. I've been a member here for four or five years. I'm a fiscal conservative...unlike the current crop of so called republicans, I'm a firm believer that not only should guns be legal, but that everyone should have them. I think our government has been running amok for longer than I've been alive. It just so happens that I'm also a social libertarian, in that I don't think it's any of the governments business what people do with their own bodies, lives, property, etc. Which, ya know, it a rational world...would make me a conservative.

I'm against a Daddy State, a Mommy State, or a state that does anything but keep the roads, paved, the trains running and the schools open.

And I pretty reguarly get called out for being a "left wing moron" by people like you. I'm just saying...you don't even understand the terms you're arguing. And by *you*, I mean all of the people who are willing to spout and repeat the current FauxNews talking points as though they were gospel from on high.
posted by dejah420 at 11:00 AM on September 3, 2005


pssst, pyramid termite: matteo was joking.
posted by scody at 11:02 AM on September 3, 2005


dejah420: People like me? Exactly what kind of "people" would that be? I didn't call anyone a moron. My comments were in response to zaack's and mondo's comments. Because I point out what I see to be a liberal bias I'm conservative? Maybe I just don't like the way the bias affects discussion.
posted by Carbolic at 11:21 AM on September 3, 2005


languagehat: Of course that's a reprehensible statement, and I'm sure any level-headed leftist would disavow it.

(Inaccurate as well. NOLA is, or was, pretty solidly Democratic.)

However, that's the only instance of that sentiment I've seen. The vast majority of "blame the victim" rhetoric has been coming from the right. Limbaugh, for instance, claiming that people stayed in NOLA specifically so that they could loot. O'Reilly, too.
posted by brundlefly at 11:22 AM on September 3, 2005


Stan Goodenough, Jerusalem Newswire

Is this some sort of bizarre coincidence? Not for those who believe in the God of the Bible and the immutability of His Word.

What America is about to experience is the lifting of God’s hand of protection; the implementation of His judgment on the nation most responsible for endangering the land and people of Israel.

The Bible talks about Him shaking His fist over bodies of water, and striking them.

While the “disengagement” plan was purportedly the brainchild of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, the United States of America has for more than a decade been the chief sponsor and propeller of a diplomatic process that has dangerously weakened Israel in the face of an overwhelming, growing threat to annihilate her.

...

Many in America couldn’t have cared less about Jews being forced out of their homes and losing everything they have built. Here in Israel, many Jews will be feeling for the Americans who are now facing similar tragedies, tragedies brought about by the forces of heaven rather than through the political power of men.

Can’t you see the link, America? Won’t you see the link?

posted by longdaysjourney at 11:23 AM on September 3, 2005


this post fucking sucks.
posted by shmegegge at 11:25 AM on September 3, 2005



You can add this to the egregious list:

A quote from our president just before he toured NOLA:

President Bush: "I am not looking forward to this trip. It's as if the entire Gulf Coast were obliterated by the worst kind of weapon you can imagine."

Just in case we forgot about the importance of staying the course against the ever elusive Iraqi WMD bogeyman our president takes this opportunity to remind us. Seems conservatives have nothing to fear but the lack of fear itself.
posted by StarForce5 at 11:33 AM on September 3, 2005


if jenleigh believes that this post "balances" anything here, then she should be working on a nice pro-NAMBLA post to help "balance" that discussion.

three blind mice is one the most appropriately named members here.

and Carbolic's self-proclaimed occupation on his user page says all we need to hear from him.

I wish we could find some of those reasonable Conservatives they talk about instead of the toadies who follow Bush like he's the reincarnation of Stalin.

At least the comments on that bloody abortion of a blog had some balance of viewpoints, including the one of the TEN BIGGEST LIES I've heard this week:
There's the difference! Red Staters know there is no price on charity. It is given freely, without bargaining. Maybe that's just another one of those goofy Southern concepts, like honor and duty, that some just can't stretch their minds around.
Totally contradicted by the "faith-based" programs that require membership in certain religions before one becomes eligable for concern, and the obvious policy of "Containment" that has been at the center of the Bush-led response to this natural disaster. Now that is hate-filled villification of the highest order, and wrapped in false pride and self-aggrandisement.
posted by wendell at 11:34 AM on September 3, 2005


from the blogger "View From The Right"

It is solely blacks, not whites, who are engaged in the savage behavior in New Orleans. Second, the fact remains that the non-criminal part of the black population is incapable of getting control of black savagery and incapable of running a civilized society. When we remember that white society is inevitably going to be blamed for the incompetence of New Orlean’s black-run government and the general mayhem, and that this will lead to renewed demands for a massive effort to equalize the conditions of the races in America, we are obligated to say frankly that the racial deficit in civilizational abilities so dramatically on display in New Orleans is not the fault of whites, and cannot be changed by whites. What can be changed is our suicidal refusal to face these facts. It is whites’ fantasy of a complete racial equality of abilities that liberates and privileges black incompetence and criminality instead of restraining them, as was done by the more racial-realist America of the pre-Civil Rights era.
posted by longdaysjourney at 11:35 AM on September 3, 2005


"Logical Meme"

I’ll say it again: If the city of Detroit or Chicago were flooded, there would be the type of looting, raping, violence and savagery we are currently witnessing in New Orleans. If the city of La Jolla or Burlington were flooded, there would not.
posted by longdaysjourney at 11:36 AM on September 3, 2005


Ugh, I need to go take a shower now.
posted by longdaysjourney at 11:39 AM on September 3, 2005


this post fucking sucks.
posted by shmegegge


Considering all the noise here, this is one of the more well-reasoned posts.
posted by leftcoastbob at 11:42 AM on September 3, 2005


sorry, matteo, but my sarcasm filter seems to have broken in the last week ... i'm just pissed off at our government

this is not an issue of liberalism ... it's an issue of COMPENTENCY ... too many people to list have shown themselves to be incompentent in the face of a national crisis

no 1 on that list is president bush
posted by pyramid termite at 11:54 AM on September 3, 2005


Carbolic: "zaack: Your dreaming if you think there isn't an extreme left wing bias at MeFi. It constantly hinders discussion."

There obviously ARE many more lefties than righties here, Captain Obvious. But why is it that an open-to-all web forum - with easily the most diverse membership of any online community I have ever encountered - has such a strong slant in this, and as far as I can tell, this only?

Only liberals are interested in "Best of the Web"? Hard working conservatives just don't have the 5 dollars to spare? Is MeFi a cunning front for Michael Moore's secret university? Give me some sort of reason for the imbalance you see, don't just carp about it, because this constantly repeated observation is starting to ring pretty hollow.

It might be an appropriate time to wonder if what you see as a "wing" might actually be the center.
posted by 31d1 at 12:01 PM on September 3, 2005


Everyone loots, regardless or race or class.

There's just different kinds of looting.

Of course a middle class professional in the wake of a disaster is not going to bother to steal televisions... they will however file bogus and inflated insurance claims.

Looting is a crime of opportunity. Wealthy people also commit crimes of opportunity they just play for bigger prizes.
posted by StarForce5 at 12:02 PM on September 3, 2005


I find threads like this profoundly depressing. I actually have found just about all of the MeFi response to this disaster to be profoundly depressing.
posted by jonmc at 12:11 PM on September 3, 2005


"Jenleigh puts up an FPP where some of your heroes make bloody fools of themselves"
When I grow up, I want to be Germany's environmental minister!
posted by klangklangston at 12:20 PM on September 3, 2005


Amen, Jonmc.
posted by LarryC at 12:22 PM on September 3, 2005


Carbolic: I can only assume that you believe the Supreme Court to be moderate, the media liberal, and the ACLU a symptom of the decline of Western civilization.
posted by klangklangston at 12:30 PM on September 3, 2005


klang: Assume away. You're close except that I do pay my yearly ACLU dues (along with those to the NRA). Maybe I even think a moderate to conservative Supreme Court and a liberal media are good things.

wendell: Don't be picking on the occupations stated in people profiles. Well you, at least, shouldn't.
posted by Carbolic at 1:10 PM on September 3, 2005


LarryC: I should clarify. I'm not upset with people criticizing the government's hadling of this disaster. That's legitamite and needed. It's the people who feel the need to blame every bad thing from hurricanes to tooth decay on their person feared "other," be that other atheists, Republicans, Muslims, Israelis, whatever. I'm a fairly liberal person and I found that quote languagehat posted to be utterly repugnant. (I should add that I've found the quotes from various fundies equally repugnant.) And we've indulged in our fair share of it here on MeFi surrounding this disaster. I've been trying to stay out of it, since quite frankly, I didn't have much to add beyond "I hope everyone is OK." But all the scapegoating and venom that I saw on that page and elsewhere (like that Reverend someone quoted in another thread) make me feel like I've gotta make my feelings known.

Also, kudos the languagehat as always for his rigorous honesty and comapassion.
posted by jonmc at 1:11 PM on September 3, 2005


Reverend Shanks, that's the prick's name. Sorry.
posted by jonmc at 1:13 PM on September 3, 2005


What jonmc said: "It's the people who feel the need to blame every bad thing from hurricanes to tooth decay on their person feared "other," be that other atheists, Republicans, Muslims, Israelis, whatever."

If anyone can find some way to blame Bush et al for some negative event all intelligent discussion ceases. If anyone attempts to steer the discussion away from "Bush is the root of all evil" they are branded a troll and the pile on commences.
posted by Carbolic at 1:23 PM on September 3, 2005


I've never heard of most of these people... but I did see the heads of our country (Republican and Democrat) make some incredibly stupid statements, none of which are represented here.

What a load of garbage. As someone else mentioned, thanks for posting this, Jenleigh. If only they could have somehow blamed this on 'the moslems' (did get an obscure minister from a tiny country in there, kudos) it would have really made your day.
posted by cell divide at 1:26 PM on September 3, 2005


Carbolic, to clarify even further: I am no fan of Bush, and I believe that he has a lot to answer for re the handling of this situation. I'm just repelled by the crap I hear from people who feel the need to drag out their hobbyhorses at a time like this. The people effected by Katrina deserve our comapssion and help because they are human beings, period.
posted by jonmc at 1:27 PM on September 3, 2005


If anyone can find some way to blame Bush et al for some negative event all intelligent discussion ceases.

Oh for crying out loud, Carbolic. Enough with the victimhood.

The fact is that Bush is responsible by definition for much of what is happening in the Gulf (both of em). I mean come on. How many times can you let him keep saying "gee, I didn't know that was gonna happen?" Is there any level of competence that you are prepared to demand from the President and his government? It's a straw man to say that he can't stop a hurricane. And it's a straw man to whine about "bias". Now, if you think he's done a great job, say so. But don't try to pretend that he had nothing to do with it.

And for the record, clearly stated opinions that one is prepared to defend are not examples of "bias". The way you're using the word is just a cop-out. If you disagree, say why, and prepare to back it up.
posted by mondo dentro at 1:38 PM on September 3, 2005


Jonmc, no big fan of Bush here either. Bush probably does have a lot to account for but a good bit off the difficulties have to do with the situation in certain sections of NOLA that has existed for years if not decades. There are parts of NOLA that tourist never see and that is where the folks who were left behind live. Poverty and crime in those areas are extreme. What we are seeing now is just a further victimization of the non-criminal element.

I'm a native of NOLA and have a large number of family members (maybe 100) in the area. We're very lucky, all but one has been accounted for and out of the city. We're pretty sure the one we haven't accounted for is to busy dealing with the situation to make contact.
posted by Carbolic at 1:48 PM on September 3, 2005


mondo: See above. My problem is not that people are critical of Bush. My problem is that in some cases if you make a statement that suggests that he may not be responsible for all the worlds ills you are branded a troll or a right wing extremist.

Example - There have been problems with those levees forever. Bush may have contributed but the problem didn't emerge when he was elected. Global warming was not a creation of the Bush administration. The situation we see today is the result of years and years of neglect.
posted by Carbolic at 1:59 PM on September 3, 2005


New Orleans & the Bush Administration Chronology - a timeline that outlines the fate of both FEMA and flood control projects in New Orleans under the Bush administration.
posted by ericb at 2:28 PM on September 3, 2005


carbolic: "...an extreme left wing bias at MeFi..."

It boggles my mind, how rapidly words get cheapened these days. "Extreme" used to actually mean "extreme"; now it means "slightly more than baseline."
posted by lodurr at 2:32 PM on September 3, 2005


ericb: When my parents bought their first home in 1965 they chose to move to an area now called River Ridge. I remember my father describing how he came to that decision. He was an engineer for Louisiana Power and Light at the time and based upon information he gained thru his position he knew that the levees intended to prevent flooding from the lake were a weak point. River Ridge is west of NOLA proper, near the river (away from the lake) and at a higher elevation (maybe 5 feet above sea level). This is a catastrophe that, at least some of, the people of NOLA have been concerned about my entire life(I'm 45). Bush and the current state and local government are at the end of a long line of government officials who have failed to act.

This doesn't excuse Bush. I'm just saying that the current administration is a PART of a long standing problem. Just changing the current administration won't solve the problem. It's a problem that goes much deeper.
posted by Carbolic at 2:41 PM on September 3, 2005


lodurr: "Extreme" is an exaggeration. "Slightly" is an understatement. Anyway, point taken.
posted by Carbolic at 2:46 PM on September 3, 2005


But Carbolic, didn't Bush do more than "fail to act?" My understanding is that he actually cut funding that would have either upgraded or maintained (I haven't read all the related documentation) the levies.


(Also, I thought you might be interested to know that I, as a far-left leftie even by Canadian standards, do not see many of my views represented on Metafilter. From my standpoint, it's pretty much dead centre.)
posted by carmen at 2:49 PM on September 3, 2005


carmen: Agreed on Bush cutting. He just wasn't the first not to address it or to prevent it from being addressed. I have no problem with stating left or far-left opinions. My issue is with the shouting down or dismissal of opinions that aren't.
posted by Carbolic at 3:03 PM on September 3, 2005


hope the left-leaning types here are as embarrassed about that as they expect right-leaning MeFites to be about the drooling thugs on their side.

languagehat, you know i love you as much as it's humanly possible without having sex with someone, but still, at this point the "scolding liberals because they're _so shrill_" routine it's gotten a bit tiresome. it is also one of the reasons why people like you (and, also, like jon) end up getting your skulls bashed in every time America votes, these last few years.

why the fear? check out the GOP's lesson in how you win elections -- do they do it politely? are they classy?

they know how to win elections and how to kick ass -- you think they would have stayed politely silent had Clinton been in charge of this mess, maybe still vacationing at the Vineyard and playing guitar as New Orleans sank like the Titanic? hell, they almost hounded him out of office because of a cum stain, languagehat -- was that reasonable?

apparently, the GOP isn't following your game plan. and they're laughing all the way to complete domination of three branches of government.

why this hostility towards people who call bullshit when they see it? should people avoid criticizing Bush because, well, it's bad manners? should we all cheer the lies and spin? "we're making progress in New Orleans", too, not only in Iraq?

you and jon act like the Democratic Senators who were too polite to vote against Scalia when he got nominated, way back. or against Ashcroft -- you know, to point out that they were right wing hitmen would have been bad manners, too.

you act like Landrieu -- too polite to attack Bush, thus looking like an ass on national TV.
posted by matteo at 4:51 PM on September 3, 2005


Sorry to derail the snark fest with an on-topic comment here, but I noticed that the FPP link starts off with a supposedly embarrassing quote from RFK Jr, which is actually quite lucid and reasonable (the biblical reference is satirical, duh!) For example: "Katrina is giving our nation a glimpse of the climate chaos we are bequeathing our children."

Holy crap - this is not a partisan issue, this is reality, people! The basic facts of climate change were well understood at least 25 years ago! (although it was more likely to be called "the greenhouse effect" in those days.) Executive summary: CO2 absorbs heat, relative to other common atmospheric gases, at a known and measurable rate. We are pumping CO2 into the atmosphere at a known and measurable rate. More CO2, more heat is retained. An amount of heat is an amount of *energy*. More energy, bigger storms. The net result is statistical, not deterministic.

See Hurricanes and Global Warming - Is There a Connection?
The situation is analogous to rolling loaded dice: one could, if one was so inclined, construct a set of dice where sixes occur twice as often as normal. But if you were to roll a six using these dice, you could not blame it specifically on the fact that the dice had been loaded. Half of the sixes would have occurred anyway, even with normal dice. Loading the dice simply doubled the odds. In the same manner, while we cannot draw firm conclusions about one single hurricane, we can draw some conclusions about hurricanes more generally. In particular, the available scientific evidence indicates that it is likely that global warming will make - and possibly already is making - those hurricanes that form more destructive than they otherwise would have been.

The key connection is that between sea surface temperatures and the power of hurricanes. Without going into technical details about the dynamics and thermodynamics involved in tropical storms and hurricanes, the basic connection between the two is actually fairly simple: warm water, and the instability in the lower atmosphere that is created by it, is the energy source of hurricanes.
This is not making a spurious connection between an ongoing catastrophe and a "pet issue" - it's pointing out an actual connection to a much wider and more universal catastrophe of which Katrina and her sisters are mere suggestions, premonitions, the first faint spattering of rain on our collective window-pane.
posted by dinsdale at 5:04 PM on September 3, 2005


matteo, I love you too, but vafangul. If you think the poor bastards in New Orleans and vicinity "deserve to live with the consequences of their votes," you're not the human being I took you for. I hate Bush and his puppetmasters as much as I've ever hated anyone, and I don't need lessons from you or anybody else about how to behave in bad times. I've been through more than you have, amico, I've yelled and cursed and marched and organized, and I don't see what any of that has to do with maintaining some semblance of civility on MetaFilter. Are you under the deluded impression that pissing on conservatives here on a website is somehow magically going to end the war or improve conditions in the wake of the hurricane?

In case this isn't clear to you, I have no problem with attacks on Bush. I do have a problem with attacks on people just because they think differently. You don't, and it's my least favorite thing about you, but you know that -- I've called you on it before. You're one of the leftie MeFites who regularly gets cited as the equivalent of the right-wing attack squadrons led by PP, and I can't defend you, because it's true. But that's between you and your conscience. I'm not going to stop trying to promote civilized discourse because you think civilization is for pussies. We'll just have to follow our separate muses here. But don't you ever again talk to me as you did in that last comment, or I'm likely to lose patience with you. "Bad manners" my ass. You just enjoy being an asshole, like too many people around here. That's your right, but I think it's ruining MetaFilter, and you're not going to change my mind by insulting me.

Once again for the Reader's Digest crowd: I'm not hostile towards liberals. I'm hostile towards assholes. Capisci?
posted by languagehat at 5:13 PM on September 3, 2005


"You're close except that I do pay my yearly ACLU dues (along with those to the NRA). Maybe I even think a moderate to conservative Supreme Court and a liberal media are good things."

I'd have no problem with the Supreme Court being conservative as a whole, but I do have a problem with it being right-wing. I don't find Scalia or Thomas to be very conservative, despite their protestations of Original Intent.
But generally the Supreme Court decisions I disagree with are the ones that expand state power, and no one seems very "conservative" on that test.

(Oh, and I'd support the NRA more if they weren't so damn absolutist. I've got no problem with a well-armed, well-trained populace.)
posted by klangklangston at 5:19 PM on September 3, 2005


The ACLU, you say? Then shouldn't you be, you know, defending people's rights to say whatever the f3ck they want instead? Just sayin'
posted by boaz at 5:30 PM on September 3, 2005


Yes, the left can be obnoxious too. Anybody see Ted Rall last week? What an asshole.

The difference, I guess, is he doesn't actually run the government. And neither do the people on this list. Still, a worthwhile post I'd say.
posted by fungible at 7:02 PM on September 3, 2005


i Posted this in MeTa but it's relevant here.

And Ted Rall is the left's Ann Coulter with a smaller audience of equally tiresome ideologues.
posted by jonmc at 10:37 PM on September 3, 2005


This turned out to be a quite illuminating thread despite my only briefly scanning the link quotes (oh my gawd that douchebag is Aussie). It has been most instructive about some of the personalities here. I think I might bookmark this. Cheers jenleigh.
posted by peacay at 4:17 AM on September 4, 2005



Katrina and Katif: some connections to consider
By Tamar Yonah September 2, 2005


I don't want to be so bold as to say that the U.S. was hit with Hurricane Katrina because President Bush pressed his Road Map upon Israel, but the fact remains that his 'Vision of a New Middle East' brought about the destruction of Gush Katif and the Northern Shomron. This, to build a PLO terror state in the belly of Israel. Looking at what has happened here in Israel these last few weeks, and seeing what is happening now in America, one has to admit there are many interesting similarities in these two tragic events, difficult to dismiss as mere coincidence. Consider:

1) The obvious: 'Katrina' sounds very similar to 'Katif'.

2) According to a Russian friend of mine, 'Katrina' in Russian is equivalent to 'Katyusha'. A katyusha is the name of a rocket that has been fired frequently at Israeli towns and villages, one of which just recently hit Israel's port city of Eilat, near its airport. This katyusha rocket was fired against Israel at the same time when Jews were being expelled from Gush Katif.

3) Bush pushed for the abandonment of Israel's southern coastal region, and America's southern coastal region is now in ruins as well....


and on and on, ad nauseam.
posted by longdaysjourney at 8:02 AM on September 5, 2005


Rick Scarborough of Vision America and the Judeo-Christian Council for Constitutional Restoration:

"After September 11, 2001, "God bless America" was on everyone's lips. But what, exactly, are we asking God to bless - a nation moving a breakneck speed toward homosexual marriage, a nation awash in pornography, a nation in which our children are indoctrinated in perversion in the public schools, a nation in which most public displays of The Ten Commandments are considered offensive to the Constitution, a nation in which the elite does all in its considerable power to efface our Biblical heritage?

We are sowing the wind. Surely, we shall reap the whirlwind.

One other factor which must be considered: Days before Katrina nearly wiped New Orleans off the map, 9,000 Jewish residents of Gaza were driven from their homes with the full support of the United States government. Could this be a playing out of prophesy ("I will bless that nation that blesses you, and curse the nation that curses you")?

Please read on. I want to give you two examples - from today's headlines - of how we are bringing disaster on ourselves. And then tell you what you can do - right now, today - to begin to reverse the process.


So what were Scarborough's examples of "how we are bringing disaster on ourselves?" First, he cited California's AB 849, a bill changing the definition of marriage in that state from "a man and a woman" to "two persons." Scarborough's second example was even weirder, and more reflective of the Christian right's curious focus on, shall we say, unorthodox sex acts. Check out what he wrote:

In Washington State, a man recently died from internal injuries sustained from committing bestiality with a horse. The incident led police to raid a farm where people were going to have sex with animals.

Though they discovered hundreds of explicit videotapes, apparently, nothing can be done about it. Washington is one of only a handful of states that does not have a law against bestiality....

posted by longdaysjourney at 8:05 AM on September 5, 2005


Pro-Life Group celebrates Katrina's work:

"As we noted last week, the anti-abortion group Columbia Christians for Life claimed that Katrina is God's punishment for America's tolerance of abortion rights. The proof? The group says a satellite image of Katrina as the hurricane struck land in Louisiana looks just like the ultrasound image of a 6-week-old fetus.

The group is out with a new message now, and it's claiming victory. New Orleans had five operating abortion clinics before Katrina, the group says. Now it has none. "As sad as it is to see the heart-aching loss of life and the suffering of people in New Orleans, " the Columbia Christians say in their latest e-mail message, "we can only give praise to God for sparing the lives of the innocent unborn who have been murdered by the tens of thousands in New Orleans and the rest of the state of Louisiana, year-after-year-after-year, despite prophetic warnings from men of God."

The group continues: "God is not mocked. We reap what we sow ... The city of New Orleans has sown innocent bloodshed and violence in the womb for years and years and has now reaped bloodshed and violence on her streets. May the people in the city of New Orleans be broken by God's Holy Law, receive, by God's grace, his gift of faith ... and receive his great salvation through Christ alone, repenting of their sins, and receiving Jesus Christ (Yahshua Messiah) as their Lord and Savior. Hallelu-Yah ! Then, may New Orleans be delivered from her many sins!"

posted by longdaysjourney at 11:33 AM on September 6, 2005


Ho-boy, a defense of price gouging from John Stossel:

Consider this scenario: You are thirsty -- worried that your baby is going to become dehydrated. You find a store that's open, and the storeowner thinks it's immoral to take advantage of your distress, so he won't charge you a dime more than he charged last week. But you can't buy water from him. It's sold out.

You continue on your quest, and finally find that dreaded monster, the price gouger. He offers a bottle of water that cost $1 last week at an "outrageous" price -- say $20. You pay it to survive the disaster.

You resent the price gouger. But if he hadn't demanded $20, he'd have been out of water. It was the price gouger's "exploitation" that saved your child.

posted by longdaysjourney at 10:22 AM on September 7, 2005


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