Katrina seen from the Left
September 4, 2005 1:54 PM   Subscribe

Storm Hits, Capitalism Preserves Profits, Humanity Drowns. Beyond pointing out that Bush cares greatly about rich white people, what does the Left have to say about Katrina? How accurate is it to blame racism and capitalism for the federal governments's lack of response?
posted by cleardawn (62 comments total) 1 user marked this as a favorite

 
This would be a good thread to post Left-leaning (meaning: further Left than the mainstream Democratic Party) articles about the Hurricane. And to discuss those articles, obviously.
posted by cleardawn at 1:56 PM on September 4, 2005


Racism, no. Capitalism, absolutely. The unwillingness to spend money to prepare for a predicted disaster.

But, for the actions of FEMA, blocking aid all through this week because no-one "needs" it, I can provide no rational motive.
posted by Pretty_Generic at 2:01 PM on September 4, 2005


Speaking as someone on the (moderate) Right, it's bothered me a lot that National Guard troops - which are, but definition, meant ONLY for protecting our homeland - have been sent overseas to participate in an invasion.

And the whole "Bush only cares about rich white people" is a bit misleading. I don't disagree with the sentiment, but it's not just Bush. Pretty much anyone in the power elite (which Bush oh-so-cleverly named the 'haves and have-mores') only care about the power elite. And when we, The People, start to realize the fight is really about the power elite vs. the non-power elite, They stir up the pot and make it a Right vs. Left spat again, just to keep us from putting our cross-hairs on the real issue.
posted by caporal at 2:02 PM on September 4, 2005


the main looters in our society are corporate owners who accrue the products of working people's labor.

Bravo!!!
posted by Kwantsar at 2:04 PM on September 4, 2005


New York Times columnist David Brooks recently wrote that the great Mississippi flood of 1927 "ripped the veil off the genteel, feudal relations between whites and blacks, and revealed the festering iniquities."
"Blacks were rounded up into work camps and held by armed guards. They were prevented from leaving as the waters rose. A steamer, the Capitol, played 'Bye Bye Blackbird' as it sailed away. The racist violence that followed the floods helped persuade many blacks to move north."


Things have improved since 1927. So let's keep some perspective. But we can surely do a hell of a lot better on the racism front.
posted by cleardawn at 2:06 PM on September 4, 2005


What is this, a college coffeshop? Did you just discover Marxism and did it blow your mind?
posted by geoff. at 2:07 PM on September 4, 2005


And the whole "Bush only cares about rich white people" is a bit misleading.

Eh. I don't think he cares much about anyone who can't benefit him. I realize that I've never met the man, so I'm making an unfair diagnosis, but that's the impression I'm left with.

As far as capitalism goes, I don't deny that greed played a part in the fuckups that hurt lots of people here, but are you saying that if we were a socialist or marxist society, this would've been a cakewalk? I'm not sure I buy that, either. I think it's simple incompetence and ineptitude. If a banana republic like Sri Lanka or Thailand can get their act together after a tsunami, I don't see why we couldn't. We had the resources and the will ( I believe), we just didn't have someone in charge who could handle it.
posted by jonmc at 2:08 PM on September 4, 2005


I don't know, for me the biggest problem is incompetence, cronyism, and just plain apathy.

I also love the excuses coming from people who just want to protect their chosen political party. Since when did this become a country where people accept excuses.

"It was hard, it was unprecedented, there were looters shooting at rescue squads..."

I. Don't. Care. Drop the excuses, take some responsibilty!
posted by cell divide at 2:11 PM on September 4, 2005


As far as capitalism goes, I don't deny that greed played a part in the fuckups that hurt lots of people here, but are you saying that if we were a socialist or marxist society, this would've been a cakewalk?

No. And I'm not faulting capitalism for the fuckups. You'll note that my real problem is with the plutocracy running this country, who have no moral compass other than that which serves their own power and greed.

As a conservative I'm all for taking care of oneself and putting my rear-end in gear to better my lot in life, but that view doesn't preclude helping better the country when I'm in a position to do so.

The Extremely Rich have and are, for the most part, saying "fuck you" to the same consumers whom they constantly urge to spend spend spend.
posted by caporal at 2:41 PM on September 4, 2005


my comment wasn't really addressed to you, caporal, but I appreicate what you say.
posted by jonmc at 5:34 PM on September 4, 2005


Here's some sanity
posted by ParisParamus at 5:41 PM on September 4, 2005


I bet Paris was so moved by George Bush's promise to rebuild Trent Lott's house that he cried.

'Fess up, Paris. Men cry too.
posted by fleetmouse at 5:47 PM on September 4, 2005


George Bush did not cause the hurricane. Hurricanes have been happening for eons. George Bush did not create them or unleash this one.

Duh. We hold these truths to be self-evident. I don't think that there's a non-schizophrenic human who has asserted that.

George Bush did not make this one worse than others.

See first answer.

You are missing the point. What we are upset about is that the response to what happened was muddled and clueless leading to needless loss of life. And putting together emergency response in a time of national (as in affecting multiple states) crisis is the job of the Federal Government, led by the President, who seems to have failed at his job.

I've said this to leftist ideologues this weekend, and I'll say it to you: don't use a natural disaster as an excuse to shore up your ideology. Let's listen to eachother and learn for crying out loud.
posted by jonmc at 5:49 PM on September 4, 2005


And don't use a national disaster to defame the President.
posted by ParisParamus at 5:50 PM on September 4, 2005


criticism does not equal "defaming," Paris. He's not God Almighty, he has to accept criticism just like the rest of us. Are you even fucking listening to what I'm saying. As someone who's cut you slack when nobody else would, extend me that small fucking courtesy please.
posted by jonmc at 5:53 PM on September 4, 2005


And don't use a national disaster to defame the President.

He's a disgrace. I think that means he's defaming himself.
posted by blendor at 5:54 PM on September 4, 2005


Jesus Christ, I thought you were outta here. Oh, well. See? The power of prayer doesn't work....

And the President doesn't really need our help defaming himself. He does pretty well on his own.
posted by umberto at 5:55 PM on September 4, 2005


Key word: some. Stein makes some good points, but just as he frowns upon those "sticking pins into an effigy of George Bush that does not resemble him," I think Stein's sticking pins into an effigy of the outraged people that does not, in large part, resemble them. No one's saying Bush was directly responsible for turning people into snipers, or keeping the elderly and infirm in New Orleans; that doesn't mean we should simply ignore any and all criticism of a rescue and relief effort that, most would agree, was severely lacking.

By all means, continue to push the blame onto local officials; there's a lot of evidence suggesting there were major problems from the municipal level upwards. But FEMA is a federal agency and the National Guard is coordinated at a federal level. Even if Louisiana was slow to ask for help (and even that claim is in question), and even if the evacuation plans for New Orleans were poorly executed, is it asking too much for FEMA or the President to step in and say, damn the consequences and state rights, this is a national emergency and we need to do whatever it takes to begin the rescue efforts?
posted by chrominance at 5:55 PM on September 4, 2005


PP - the natural disaster is not being used to defame the president, the national one is. Bush will go down in history as presiding over the most botched failure of the federal government to respond to it's citizens in time of need. He defames himself with his disgraceful pandering, lies and deceit. If he had made sure that the DoHLS was actual being run properly and prepared to do it's job, then this humanitarian disaster would not have occurred on the scale we all witness today. 6 days, dude. 6 freakin days without food and water and your pathetic bush ass-kissing would abate I guarantee you that.
posted by crunchywelch at 5:56 PM on September 4, 2005


It's not the fact of criticism, it's the degree; the proportion. I really hate people being piled on, whatever their stature. The post refers to the President by name. The President and his adminstration are down at about 5 on the blame list for this disaster. Louisiana's former governor is in jail. The city government of NOLA is corrupt; its police force is a corrupt joke. You could have had the greatest evacuation plan in the word, but without the local and state-wide competence to execute it, you have no plan at all. Ditto in taking oil revenues to pay for serious levee and other projects.

Again, at least blaming Bush for Iraq has some causation logic. Blaming him for this is just moronic.
posted by ParisParamus at 6:00 PM on September 4, 2005


People seem to be under some mistaken belief that Greed == Capitalism. Like nobody under any other economic system has ever been greedy before, or on such a colossal scale.
posted by nightchrome at 6:04 PM on September 4, 2005


Huh. The "kinder, gentler" ParisParamus follows and obeys the same Republican talking points that the old one did. I'm sure surprised.
posted by interrobang at 6:08 PM on September 4, 2005


Well, if the degree and proportion of criticism should reflect the degree and proportion of the source, then I'd say we were actually about right on. The fact is that there are numerous, substantiated, first-hand reports of outrageous incompetence at the hands of FEMA and the DoHLS. Now, unless I'm mistaken, these agencies have heads that are appointed by Bush, yes? So then he is thier commander in chief yes? So, how many days of catastrophic incompetence would it take at your job before you lost it? If lives were being lost? No, Paris, diverting blame onto the local organizations when these federal agencies' sole charters are to mitigate the affects of natural disasters like this is sycophantic in the face of the events of the past week.
posted by crunchywelch at 6:09 PM on September 4, 2005


What does it take for Bush to meet with members of the NAACP after over five years of his administration?

One guess.
posted by insomnia_lj at 6:12 PM on September 4, 2005


Sorry Paris, piling criticism on the President when he and his administration screws up is a First Amendment right of all Americans. As is your right to express your opinion about it... which I rather think most of us will ignore. Besides, if he thinks we are actually "defaming" him, he's got lawyers.

Nobody disagrees that the state and local government screwed up BEFORE the hurricane in ways that exacerbated the problem, but so did the Feds - for several generations of government, both Republican and Democrat.

The failure to respond in timely fashion AFTER the hurricane rests squarely on the Administration, who mandated the creation of DHS, advertised it as the powerful, dynamic protector of the people in times of danger, diverted billions to it, and staffed it with their buddies. Bush is in charge of the Administration.

His complete inability to lead the nation with decisive ability in this instance indicts him, even if everything else he did was perfect (which you know I don't believe).

crunchywelch: I've said this in other threads - please stop talking about FEMA and DHS as if they are separate entities. FEMA has been subsumed under DHS control.
posted by zoogleplex at 6:14 PM on September 4, 2005


crunchy, if you're talking about FEMA today or two or days after the hurricaine, I take no issue with that, and such criticism is fair. But if you're talking about the initial evacuation immediately after, that's not FEMA's province.
posted by ParisParamus at 6:14 PM on September 4, 2005


Nice find, insomnia_lj!
posted by zoogleplex at 6:16 PM on September 4, 2005


This should have been posted about a month from now.

In the meantime, get out your checkbook.
posted by recurve at 6:16 PM on September 4, 2005


This would be a good thread to post Left-leaning (meaning: further Left than the mainstream Democratic Party) articles about the Hurricane.

I got some!!

China Mieville rips Nagin a new one, pointing out many things I hadn't known about this recent national celebrity.
Bush et al's utterly stinking depravity and criminality doesn't exonerate Nagin, a lifelong Republican technocrat who defected to the Democrats days before filing for the Mayoral race in this solidly Democrat town (it's perhaps no surprise that despite Nagin's outburst Bush doesn't bear him any grudges – Nagin contributed to his campaign funds). His rebirth as Rebel With a Cause is too little, too late.

Nagin ordered the cops to stop searching for the living and start protecting property. Nagin delayed ordering an evacuation in the first place 'because of potential liability on the part of the city for closing hotels and other businesses'. Nagin, last hurricane round, only at the last minute opened the stadium and a few schools, 'reportedly worried that lower class refugees might damage or graffiti the Superdome'.
Mieville also points to disturbing evidence that the failure in disaster planning is due to privatization of the planning process.

There's a lot more there that I haven't the strength to summarize. warning: socialist thought

For those unfamiliar with this incredibly gifted young writer: he's the only fantasy author I know with a PhD from the London School of Economics, and his work features e.g. a strike by water-shaping creatures to shut down a major port, viciously crushed by government forces. I don't remember that in LoTR.
posted by Aknaton at 6:18 PM on September 4, 2005


I am not in a position these days to give a lot, but I am going to send a check to the Red Cross in the next few days. There are thousands of people who have lost everything. It's a terrible, unimaginable reality.
posted by ParisParamus at 6:19 PM on September 4, 2005


This should have been posted about a month from now.

yeah, pointing out Bush's incompetence now is taboo because it's disrespectful. one month from now, rightwingers will just tell you to move on, to look at the future, no need to look back.

hence, no criticism of the leader is allowed.

one hopes liberals aren't dumb enough to buy it and fall into the usual trap.
unless, maybe, at this point they just like to lose.
posted by matteo at 6:27 PM on September 4, 2005


... meanwhile, a prominent member of the Bush administration visited the disaster area today, emphasizing that the president wouldn't ignore the plight of hurricane survivors based on their race. Which one, you ask?

One guess.

Rednecks and Rice.
posted by insomnia_lj at 6:28 PM on September 4, 2005


Good catch, Aknaton. That's eye opening.
posted by fleetmouse at 6:31 PM on September 4, 2005


Yeah, Condi's all about helping out the little guy. Even though she is one of the least affluent members of the administration, she still had an oil tanker named after her. In fact, so concerned for her brothers and sisters affected by katrina, she was busy buying shoes and watching a broadway show mere days after the chaos was under way! Huzzah Condi! You win the 'most likely to be used by the administration to avoid looking like rich, racist, fat white guys' award!

*clapclapclap*

/k, I'm done
posted by crunchywelch at 6:43 PM on September 4, 2005


I really hate people being piled on, whatever their stature.

I hate that even more than you do, but we're not talking about some random schmuck on a community website, paris. We're talking about a man who told the country he was competent at leading it (and that includes leading it in a time of emergency).

This is not people dancing around in a circle singing nana-nana-poo-poo because they don't like the guy. This is a situation where people sre suffering and dying needlessly. And it's not because God is punishing them, or because of how they voted, or because emergency personell aren't up to snuff, or because of a few looters and shooters. GW Bush is the boss of the country, the Commander-in Cheif. As Harry Truman said: the buck stops here.
posted by jonmc at 6:47 PM on September 4, 2005


Yeah, Condi's conduct has pretty much mortally offended me. i can't take her seriously at all, ever, anymore.
posted by zoogleplex at 6:48 PM on September 4, 2005


jonmc: Actually, the buck needs to be accompanied by a FEMA form AB-238 signed by the mayor, a senior city councilperson, and a certified witness before any stoppage orders will be issued.
posted by Coda at 6:50 PM on September 4, 2005


In triplicate and notarized, natch.

and I'm with zoogleplex, screw condi. I hope those Ferragammos give you bunions, honey.
posted by jonmc at 6:51 PM on September 4, 2005


And paris, just so this dosen't seem like a complete pile-on on you, I'll take you at your word that you are as sickened and distressed by the loss of life in the wake of Katrina as the rest of us. I'm asking you to understand that that is why we are so upset. It was our federal government's job to minimize that, and they have failed. That's what bothers me. Not partisan politics.
posted by jonmc at 6:55 PM on September 4, 2005



close tag
posted by swell at 7:05 PM on September 4, 2005


Huh. The "kinder, gentler" ParisParamus follows and obeys the same Republican talking points that the old one did. I'm sure surprised.

When did "kinder" and "gentler" mean giving up your beliefs? Jesus, he's been "kinder and gentler" than the people responding to him. Jonmc is the only one who actually engaged in discussion. The rest were smart ass remarks.
posted by justgary at 7:18 PM on September 4, 2005


That's not true. For example, crunchywelch and zoogleplex, above.
posted by furiousthought at 8:07 PM on September 4, 2005


justgary, you are right. PP, I apologize for the snarkiness.
posted by umberto at 8:11 PM on September 4, 2005



This article posted earlier from the The American Spectator is just spin, and is not an argument to lay off of the US President.

I will state up front the following:
I don't care for President Bush as a President.
I don't blame him for the hurricane, I would expect to be strolled into a padded room if I believed otherwise.

But, as the Commander-in-Chief, his duty is to protect the citizens of the United States. He has said so much in many speeches when referring to (cue orchestra) terrorists. This was not a terrorist act, but an act of nature. None the less it has been a tragedy of a national scale.

With this background, I find two things to be upset about. First, the lack of communication, coordination and execution which has all lead to a lack of action on so many levels is truly appalling. You have had reporters weeping, from all of the networks, and yet the head of FEMA blinks and states "We only just learned of the problem."
I have to ask, what has the accumulated debt been spent on and at what point will someone be held accountable for this complete lack of execution. If you go over the numerous tragedies in Florida, it is FEMA that is held accountable or applauded - held under the microscope if you will. And in this case, rightly so, again the microscrope should be brought out because of the appauling execution demonstrated during this event.

Secondly, we have had great hand-waving since 9/11 and a great restructuring of the government. FEMA is now part of homeland security. If this is the new world, I am deeply concerned. I talk about execution above, now I am talking about organization and strategy. A great deal of money has been thrown into this new world, all because we have new threats from (cue same orchestra) terrorists. Well, this new strategy just faced its first test and I have to say I am not impressed.

I could get into a lather and talk about the increased debt we have spent to bring about this new organization, or how funding to other areas has been curtailed to bring about this new world order - meanwhile we are still spending atrocious levels of $$ for the old world armies, or how the new strategy has us finding two wars with no real end. But everything comes back to the leadership of President Bush, since it is his vision that has brought us to this point today, with our Department of Homeland Security (with FEMA), with our budget, our status in the world, our reorganized military, etc. etc. He is the POTUS.

So, you'll excuse me if I do wish to whip out the magnifying glass and have a look at this vision. Perhaps he should he held accountable since he is the President, and some healthy discussions takes places about the head of FEMA, the strain on the military forces, the policy of the budget, mililtary execution and how we are viewed throughout the world. Then, perhaps when we are done with that we can start looking at the various no-bid contracts that seem to be executed poorly with no accountability.

Meanwhile, please take the drivel of Ben Stein out for a walk and perhaps into a padded room. I hate spin as it does nothing for the true discussion.

Good night.
posted by fluffycreature at 8:32 PM on September 4, 2005


Oh, I'll own some snarkiness in my post. But only a little bit. I do try to be civil, but there's definitely love/hate in my posting history as regards Paris. Sometimes he pushes my buttons, and I fail to resist the R-complex input.

To echo fluffycreature some, and continue to state my position, I now have zero faith in DHS ability to both protect us from terrorists, and to help us should an actual attack occur. On top of that, I believe that the Administration's actual assessment of the probability of another major terrorist attack on the US is ZERO, based on the capabilities of the people they have installed as administrators of our protection. I know the Administration is not stupid, so I have to assume that they appointed ineffectual cronies because they knew they could. Too bad they didn't consider the possibility of catastrophic natural disaster... even though it's on the list of Top Three Potential Emergencies that they drew up.

So I, like any sensible Californian, have a full on disaster-preparedness kit on hand, including extra gas for my motorcycle so I can make it as far as San Francisco or Phoenix if necessary. Definitely not gonna wait for these guys to save me.
posted by zoogleplex at 8:46 PM on September 4, 2005


"It was our federal government's job to minimize that, and they have failed. That's what bothers me. Not partisan politics."

I'm sorry, but for better or worse, responding to events of this kind (I won't say "disaster" because the implication of the criticism is that it's only a disaster because of incompetence) is not, NOT N O T primarily a federal job. Louisiana and the government of NO are primarily to blame, not Washington. And you can say otherwise 500 times, but it's still not true. Should Washington have anticipated NO/LA's incompetence better? Maybe, but that's a lot to ask.
posted by ParisParamus at 8:59 PM on September 4, 2005


And what about all the people who refused to leave? Lots of people are that ill-informed or stupid.
posted by ParisParamus at 9:00 PM on September 4, 2005


*sigh*

Or poor. Really poor. So poor they don't own cars, can't afford to drive out, had no effective way to leave. Have you really not absorbed that?

At least, in terms of people who couldn't leave BEFORE the hurricane in the main mandatory evacuation. Folks who won't leave NOW... well there I might agree.
posted by zoogleplex at 9:10 PM on September 4, 2005


" Lots of people are that ill-informed or stupid."

Welcome to the human race. We're also selfish, arrogant, petty and vengeful. We're all those unpleasant things and a bunch of nice ones too, and we're all on this crazy spinning rock together. When people are in need you help them because their human, not because you deem them as worthy or non-worthy victims.
posted by 2sheets at 9:11 PM on September 4, 2005


I'm going out. I need to go have some fun for a while. See you all tomorrow.
posted by zoogleplex at 9:12 PM on September 4, 2005


For the 700,000,000th time, responding to a disaster that spreads across 4 states and involves millions of people IS I S a federal job (as a PRIMARY RESPONSE). The DHS website states as much. The FEMA charter states as much. The fact that the governor and the mayor requested their help two days before the hurricane states as much. What does it take?

I'm not putting in the links. They've only been posted a gazillion times.
posted by fungible at 9:35 PM on September 4, 2005


"...Mr. Bush, who is turning over heaven and earth to rescue the victims of the storm..."

Thanks PP - that was the best laugh I had all day.
posted by dinsdale at 9:44 PM on September 4, 2005


And another point: Paris, you live in New York, like myself. Say, when the supposedly inevitable terrorist attack comes to New York, wiping out large chunks of the city, would you prefer that FEMA and the DHS wait for the appropriate paperwork to take action? Should the president dither helplessly, his hands tied, until he can be certain it's been cleared by Pataki? Should the NYPD handle the whole thing?

Although, on second thought - seeing what a horrible job FEMA and the DHS did down south - maybe that's not such a bad thing.
posted by fungible at 9:47 PM on September 4, 2005


"And what about all the people who refused to leave? Lots of people are that ill-informed or stupid."

Or someone who has a family member who was in the hospital, like one person I noticed on LJ...

... or the people who worked in the hospitals and nursing homes, who refused to leave their patients behind.

... or the three or four teens I met whose mothers or fathers didn't want to leave.

... or the woman who stayed on at an animal facility, taking care of over 300 people's pets, and who actually rescued another 100 more pets that were wandering around after the hurricane and saved every one of them, bringing all of them back to Baton Rouge.

... or the couple who had their entire lives wrapped up into their bar and into taking care of their regulars, and who had a bunch of patrons converge on their place in the hours before the storm, with no where to go and no way of getting there, and who sheltered, fed, and took care of not only their patrons, but all of the people on their block.

... or all those people without cars who found that you couldn't even buy a ticket to get on a Greyhound bus out of town, because they had all sold out in the middle of the night, a good 36 hours before the storm hit, and who couldn't have a friend come in and get them out because the roads were closed or turned over to contraflow.

... or the person who was ordered to keep working at the gas station and keep things going as long as the pumps were still flowing.

... or the doctors in town for a medical convention at the Ritz Carlton who had no way to get out of town, and who, in the aftermath of the storm, looted a Walgreens and set up a triage facility at one of New Orleans' biggest outdoor restaurants, providing people with free medical treatment for days before FEMA arrived.

... or the person who made a promise to their neighbor's mother to get their daughter out alright, and who, by the time they found her, found themselves stuck in traffic so bad that they felt their best option was to turn back and find shelter.

And yes... all the poor.

Paris, what is your excuse, after all the stories you should've seen and read by now, for being so damn ignorant?
posted by insomnia_lj at 12:22 AM on September 5, 2005


"Lots of people are that ill-informed"

I can easily imagine many had no clue the storm was coming until it was right on top of them.
posted by mischief at 12:38 AM on September 5, 2005


"...Mr. Bush, who is turning over heaven and earth to rescue the victims of the storm..."

Oh, really?!

ARD correspondent Christine Adelhardt, who witnessed Bush's visit to Biloxi, was shocked about the extent to which the event was staged. The President brought with him vehicles to cut though the debris and rescue search teams, for which Biloxi had waited for days. But they did not go to work where the victims were, but only served as photogenic background props in remote areas of the town, she reported.

Turning over heaven and earth? Well, I did hear he did kick up a few divots while golfing on Tuesday...
posted by insomnia_lj at 12:42 AM on September 5, 2005


The purpose of this thread was to get some discussion on Left-leaning articles.

Thanks Aknaton for providing some!

I had no idea that the hurricane relief plan had been PRIVATIZED. Good job, corporate America! As we know, private industry is always more efficient than the state, right?

Unfortuntately, this thread, like so many others on MeFi, was cleverly hijacked by ParisParamus.

His batshit rightwing article ("there is no real proof that global warming exists"... "the President did not cause the Hurricane" ... etc, etc) is typical of the Republicans' level of debate: lies, strawmen, and snide rhetoric with no real content except hatred.

Such insanity demands a response; so we respond, and lose our train of collective thought.

It's a clever trick, in a way. By being so offensive and insane, Republicans prevent intelligent, sane discussion from occurring. They do this over and over again on MeFi, as elsewhere in the media. Watch out for it.

For the Right, now is NEVER the time for other people to talk about politics.

When people like ParisParamus try to derail threads, please ignore them, or post a one-liner, something like "ParisParamus = batshit attempted derail".

... and try to remember what we were talking about BEFORE the batshit arrived.

One thing we were not doing is cheerleading the climate criminals.
posted by cleardawn at 6:07 AM on September 5, 2005


cleardawn, it's wrong for ParisParamus to derail the thread, but don't try and tell people how they're supposed to respond either. You post your links and ideas and the rest of us repond. Civilly, yes, but otherwise we say what we think, period.
posted by jonmc at 7:04 AM on September 5, 2005


I thought I heard it all, then last night while my husband was channel surfing at 2:30 am, we caught the tail end of an interview with a black man (didn't catch the ID) who said he had been leading a large group of people and various routes were cut-off due to flooding. Then while they were following an interstate they were met with attack dogs and armed guards who turned them back. The evacuees had reached the edge of a white affluent suburb that had hired guards to prevent the blacks from entering. Did anybody else hear this?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:33 AM on September 5, 2005


I'm still trying to figure out how Canadian mounties got to NO before the National Guard did. I'm very glad they did, obviously. But that just shows horribly FEMA managed the situation.

Gravy, that just sounds horrible. I guess some of the people in the neighborhood were terrified about all the looting(finding, meh) news and decided they needed to protect themselves from "those people".
posted by Talanvor at 8:55 AM on September 5, 2005


The Mounties could have ridden their horses to Nawlins and they still would have arrived before FEMA.
posted by mischief at 10:21 AM on September 5, 2005


jonmc, I virtually always agree with you, so I hope you're not complaining about the very first (cleardawn) comment in this thread attempting to map out what purpose it may serve orthogonal to the many other Katrina threads.

For what it's worth, I'm a little annoyed at myself for not figuring out that if I posted a link critical of Nagin, it would be snapped up and reposted by people who feel the need to deflect blame from Bush. (You can be doggone sure that China Mieville is not one of those!) Not that I would or should have behaved any differently. Information is good.
posted by Aknaton at 8:26 PM on September 5, 2005


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