Something has to be done

September 8, 2005 8:29 PM

OpenDemocracy It's terrible terrible that the one institution which was created at the end of World War II to prevent any future wars from occurring. It is going to be the next place where these fasicists are going to be gunning for.
posted by N8k99 (37 comments total)

What?
posted by mrbill at 8:39 PM on September 8, 2005

I don't mean to be snarky, but is English your second language, or possibly your third?

It's terrible terrible that the one institution which was created at the end of World War II to prevent any future wars from occurring.

The sentence above is a fragment, and I won't even bother to analyze the second sentence, as it is even worse than the first. If English is foreign to you, then I apologize; if it isn't, I seriously suggest a little thing called proofreading before you next make a FPP.
posted by Chasuk at 8:41 PM on September 8, 2005

It saddens me a bit that this post. There are no tags.
posted by brownpau at 8:43 PM on September 8, 2005

Overlooking this post for the moment, to suggest that the "oil-for-food scandal" is simply "a Bush administration attempt to undermine the organisation and dismantle international law" is childish and stupid. Oh, and N8k99, don't call people fascist, it isn't polite.
posted by loquax at 8:44 PM on September 8, 2005

That is, don't call people fascist unless they are fascist. In this case, that of our first corporate-sponsored White House, I think it might be justified.
posted by Codebender at 8:49 PM on September 8, 2005

Isn't this about when the administrator shows up, and we all start making with the jokes?
posted by yhbc at 8:53 PM on September 8, 2005

"Fascism - unlike Communism, socialism, capitalism or conservatism - is a smear word more often used to brand one's foes than it is a descriptor used to shed light on them."

So there. Fascist.
posted by loquax at 8:56 PM on September 8, 2005

If we're looking for fascists, by the way, Canada fits the bill a lot better than the US, at least if we're talking about real fascism and not the epithet. And if you're going to post something somehow arguing for the continued existence of the political arm of the UN, you might want to discuss something other than oil-for-food, which, it seems obvious, was a complete debacle. Countries and companies are perfectly able to steal and misappropriate money on their own, we really don't need a supra-national body to facilitate it. To argue that the UN shouldn't be held accountable for "administrative failings" and that the scandal isn't really so bad at all is indefensible. If Mr. Plesch is looking for ulterior motives and hidden agendas, perhaps the he should look in the mirror.
posted by loquax at 9:13 PM on September 8, 2005

loquax writes "If we're looking for fascists, by the way, Canada fits the bill a lot better than the US, at least if we're talking about real fascism and not the epithet."

Please do go on.

/gets popcorn
posted by clevershark at 9:22 PM on September 8, 2005

"If we're looking for fascists, by the way, Canada fits the bill a lot better than the US, at least if we're talking about real fascism and not the epithet."

*still mopping up after the spit take*
posted by maryh at 9:24 PM on September 8, 2005

Meh. The admin wants to undermine international law because it sees the U.S. as the (necessary) exception, and as the main organ of that entity, there is a definite attempt to minimize the role of the U.N., and simultaneously cut off support for its initiatives while denouncing its inability to act.

That being said, meh also to this post.

If we're looking for fascists, by the way, Canada fits the bill a lot better than the US

Is this where you tell us that the Nazis were actually left-wing because they called themselves a socialist party? Cause I've heard that one.
posted by dreamsign at 9:50 PM on September 8, 2005

um... ok, each can have their own for there is truth in all are parts of the greater whole. Good on him.

Word.
posted by thatweirdguy2 at 9:51 PM on September 8, 2005

It's not often that a headline manages to mangle both grammar *and* spelling.
posted by clevershark at 9:59 PM on September 8, 2005

MetaFilter: It is at this point where the beginnings of the terrible afflictions and blights on the human condition were cast into the shadow of evil.
posted by mek at 10:27 PM on September 8, 2005

Erm, I'm new here, and I realize that

a) there is a small creature here that rhymes with "Prole"
b) I shouldn't feed it and
c) it's name is loquax...

But HOW is Canada more fascist than the USA? Please cite examples offsetting the Patriot Act, Same Sex Marriage Prohibition, a millitary budget that is swallowing the state, the rich being alleviated of the tax burden while the poor are being screwed into to an early grave by the removal of benefits and george diddly W fucking-doodle-dandy Bush sitting on the throne?

Eh?
posted by lalochezia at 10:40 PM on September 8, 2005

maybe loquax thinks that we all going around with actual bundles of branches hitting people with them. you, gay people, get married! *smack* you, celebrate your ethnic heritage! *smack*
posted by blacklite at 10:43 PM on September 8, 2005

Loquax: Are we talking Mussolini corporatism or National Socialism? If you're thinking about Germany, the concessions that Hitler made to the industrialists while simultaneously railing against them for WWI leave the US closer, in my opinion. I'm curious about where you're going with this.
posted by klangklangston at 10:49 PM on September 8, 2005

Canada: Goosestepping Quietly As To Not Wake The Minnesotans
posted by maryh at 10:56 PM on September 8, 2005

Judging by the FPP alone, I wonder if the poster is actually some facsimile of a human intelligence; I wonder if we are the subject of some compsci student's joke.

Also: funny, I don't feel like a Fascist.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 10:59 PM on September 8, 2005

Facism can be defined as a political movement or regime tending toward or imitating ... corporate rule of government, where politics and business become interdependent and where unquestionable nationalism becomes a dominant.

I think we are close to that....
posted by Elim at 11:13 PM on September 8, 2005

loquax was too busy praying to the flag to look up what fascism meant.
posted by qwip at 11:30 PM on September 8, 2005

Canada: Goosestepping Quietly As To Not Wake The Minnesotans posted by maryh

Comedy gold, right there. Yay, MaryH!
posted by dejah420 at 11:53 PM on September 8, 2005

...george diddly W fucking-doodle-dandy Bush sitting on the throne

Okay lalochezia, you win. That is the best name for Bush that I have heard so far.

And please, tell how Canada is more fascist than the US, or was that just a random provocative statement?
posted by blue shadows at 12:57 AM on September 9, 2005

You know what is fascist? Fascists.
posted by TwelveTwo at 1:18 AM on September 9, 2005

damn fascist canadians.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 1:39 AM on September 9, 2005

I agree with the spirit and intentions of the post.As far as definitions go, David Neiwert over at Orcinus wrote some time ago"Corporatists are typically mainstream conservatives who have been a feature of the American landscape since the onset of the Industrial Age. They are supremely self-interested, and their politics over the years (particularly in their resistance to communism and labor unions) have adapted accordingly to resist change in whatever privileged position they enjoy, and in recent years to roll back impediments to that privilege. Their alliances with various ideological factions have shifted accordingly over the years to reflect those interests, at times aligning themselves with extremist factions as a lever against left-wing radicalism, though since World War II corporatists have maintained a steady power-sharing agreement with mainstream liberals that has been closely associated with the rise of the American mass-consumer society. In recent years, that arrangement has become frayed as conservatives have become increasingly aggressive about rolling back features of the post-Depression rise of federal power, particularly progressive taxation and minority civil rights.

Fascists represent a distinct phenomenon related to the mass politics of the 20th century and beyond. At its core, fascism is a kind of ultranationalist populism in pursuit of the rebirth of a mythical national spirit, of which it claims be the sole true representative. Depending on social conditions, it typically is relegated to the fringe of the cultures in which it arises, especially in its nascent stages. Indeed, small proto-fascist groups can be found in nearly every democratic society." It aint fascism until it is populist.
posted by hortense at 1:53 AM on September 9, 2005

loquax writes "'Fascism - unlike Communism, socialism, capitalism or conservatism - is a smear word more often used to brand one's foes than it is a descriptor used to shed light on them.'

"So there. Fascist."

Right. Because no politician, ever, has been known to label a more liberal opponent as a "Communist" or "Socialist" and meant it in anything but purely descriptive terms.
posted by Deathalicious at 3:02 AM on September 9, 2005

Fascist!!
posted by maryh at 4:10 AM on September 9, 2005

Please don't call Candians fascist. I can't get away with looking at MeFi at work if I'm laughing uproariously.
posted by alumshubby at 6:10 AM on September 9, 2005

I find it amusing that the original poster is not considered a troll for stating as fact that the current US administration (I'm assuming) is "fascist", yet I am for suggesting that Canada is more fascist on a relative scale. Something to think about.

Anyways, I think neither are fascist, and it's ludicrous to suggest otherwise. If we were to argue the point, however, a common definition of fascism would have to be established, because I have the feeling that everyone here has their own interpretation of the word. By saying that Canada is "more fascist" than the United States, I was attempting to illustrate that on a relative scale, every country is at least a little bit "fascist" or "communist" or "death worshipping". In my opinion, and according to the definition of fascism that I accept and believe to be the most proper without including qualifiers, I think Canada is further along on that scale than the US. Which is not to say that it is in fact a fascist regime, nor is it to say that Canada is "worse" or "better" than the US. My argument, briefly, would be that Canada has nowhere near the checks and balances that the US does, giving our Prime Minister (with a majority government) near total control of the federal government. You have a senate and a house of representatives and a supreme court. Our senate is a house of patronage, and by definition you control the house if you are the PM. In addition, the Canadian federal and provincial governments are far more involved in their citizen's lives than the various levels of American governments, a key tenet of fascism (and of socialism, which I essentially believe to be the same thing with different window dressing. Wait, I'll say it first - troll! Troll!). I buy my liquor from the government, I receive my education from the government, I get my healthcare from the government, not by choice, and not from them as a provider of last resort, but by law. American rights and liberties are far more defined, protected and respected than they are in Canada. It's true. Our constitution is a joke. And so on. This isn't really a post about fascism, nor is it about Canada and the US. I'd be pleased to talk about it further, but cherry-picking facts about the US administration and painting the entire system of government with that brush isn't fair. Haliburton contracts and the like could be an indication of a form of neo-fascism, or they could just be an indication of corruption. And seriously, if you're so worried about the PATRIOT act, you should probably not come up to Canada, police powers here would make your skin crawl. Ask a Canadian solicitor.

OK, sorry for causing a snit. Feel free to add me to the killfiles.

Loquax: Are we talking Mussolini corporatism or National Socialism? If you're thinking about Germany, the concessions that Hitler made to the industrialists while simultaneously railing against them for WWI leave the US closer, in my opinion.

Exactly my point. It all depends on the definition and the facts entered into argument. I wholeheartedly agree that in some ways, the US government is acting in a way that could be considered fascist. So is Canada. So is the UK. So is Mexico. But to state as the original poster did, that the UN "is going to be the next place where these fascists are going to be gunning for" is undoubtedly prejudicial, and dare I say it, trollish. Or, to flip the situation around, Canada is clearly more "communist" than the United States. Would it be all right for me to call Canada a communist country? We've socialized our healthcare, we've nationalized industry, the gang running things in Ottawa are a gang of Stalinists versus Washington's Nazis, right?

My thoughts on fascism, if anyone is interested, could likely be summed by this article.

"Stalin and Hitler were two suits in the same closet, and the closet was marked 'collectivism.'"
posted by loquax at 6:56 AM on September 9, 2005

Look at what these fascists are up to now:

Rice told reporters: "We believe that we will continue to work with the secretary-general and we are confident that he will support the kinds of reforms that are needed to try and make sure this kind of thing does not happen again."

"You have got to have strong secretariat and management reform," Rice told a news conference. "Secretary Annan said that himself."

The United States was the single biggest donor to the United Nations and it owes American taxpayers an accounting of how their money was spent, she said.

For example, a new U.N. Human Rights Council could not include countries such as Sudan, which has been accused of committing genocide, Rice said.

Pitooie! I spit on her shadow!
posted by loquax at 12:08 PM on September 9, 2005

I find it amusing that the original poster is not considered a troll for stating as fact that the current US administration (I'm assuming) is "fascist", yet I am for suggesting that Canada is more fascist on a relative scale. Something to think about.

Nobody called you a troll, did they? Something to think about.
posted by sonofsamiam at 12:12 PM on September 9, 2005

Yeah, one guy did. Cleverly I might add. Some others insinuated it. The rest of them secretly thought it I tell you!! One guy even accused me of being American! And religious!
posted by loquax at 12:18 PM on September 9, 2005

Ok, after review of the OED, I rescind my flagrant comment which flippantly and falliciously referred to the current adminstration as fascist. So, what is the antonymn of "a strongly nationalistic movement in favor or government coontrol of business?" Or maybe not exactly the opposing definition, but the prevalent view that Big Business control Government. Oh, I guess that is just Republican/Conservative and in which case it's fine that corporations can buy policy and enactment of laws. BTW English is not my first language, American is. I hope I do not need to point out the distinct difference. Nor am I a compsci student who wrote a clever program to 'trick' you. My original posting was one that described emotional conditions which resided within as a direct result of reading the article. Additionally, further review of the original reveals the only change which is necessary would be the deletion of ". It". The indepth deliberation of the administration or other governmental bodies as "fascists" was achieved through the posting of this comment, even as it inspired comments which was personal attacks. Than you for playing, come again.
posted by N8k99 at 12:35 PM on September 9, 2005

I dunno man.

If you wanted to attack the "smart regulation" initiative as fascist, I might back you. Or Anne McClellan's new Ministry of Dystopia. But you're attacking the workings of our Parliamentary system? We've got backbenchers putting forward their own (ill conceived) bills. What exactly do you want?
posted by dreamsign at 3:40 PM on September 9, 2005

"The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies 'something not desirable'." - Orwell

Metafilter: no meaning except in so far as it signifies 'something not desirable'
posted by athenian at 3:46 PM on September 9, 2005

The indepth deliberation of the administration or other governmental bodies as "fascists" was achieved through the posting of this comment, even as it inspired comments which was personal attacks.

I ♥ MetaFilter.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 9:42 PM on September 9, 2005