Aharon Appelfeld
September 16, 2005 7:01 AM   Subscribe

"You see, first of all, to be a Jewish writer is a heavy obligation. My close family was killed. My natural environment, my childhood, my sweetest memories were killed. And so it’s a kind of obligation that I feel; I’m dealing with a civilization that has been killed. How to represent it in the most honorable way–not to equalize it, not to exaggerate, but to find the right proportion to represent it, in human terms."

Also: see this interview with Appelfeld by Philip Roth (NYT); scroll a third of the way down on this page for a stunning interview from Ha'aretz where Appelfeld talks about the importance of Israel; see this extensive interview from Yad Vashem ( pdf, Google HTML); go here for a RealAudio interview with Appelfeld, as well as for excerpts from certain of his many books.
posted by OmieWise (44 comments total) 2 users marked this as a favorite
 
Interesting post.

"I’m dealing with a civilization that has been killed..."

How many civilizations / tribes / native peoples are there slowly being 'killed' all over the world, every day?

This is the civilization I hear about the most, though.
posted by tbonicus at 7:44 AM on September 16, 2005


we have the biggest mouths, tbonicus : >
posted by amberglow at 7:47 AM on September 16, 2005


I would recommend using that amazing technology called SCROLLING if this post or its contents annoys or offends or otherwise raises anyone's hackles - shitting in the thread is not compulsory. Amazing huh?
posted by peacay at 7:50 AM on September 16, 2005


Let he with the biggest lobby be recognized.

The suffering is real, however...
posted by lyam at 7:51 AM on September 16, 2005


Thanks for this, OmieWise. It's good to see someone who can still eloquently defend and eulogize his own racial/religious group. Appelfeld's personal childhood experiences of "ethnic cleansing" - the horror of which he describes with masterful understatement - add further power to his work.

To many liberals and intellectuals, Appelfeld's style of writing might be regarded as somewhat of an embarassment, old-fashioned and nationalistic, but it's clear there is still a substantial market for such writing in many countries.

I'm told many Serbs still enjoy good books about the unique role, importance, suffering, and humanity of the Serbian people, for example. And in the USA, this kind of writing is also very popular, although there, the preferred focus tends to be the unique role, humanity, suffering, and importance of the American people.

Many Islamic authors have written texts in a similar style, generally focusing on the unique role, importance, suffering, and humanity of Islamic people and culture.

I don't know if anyone would be interested, but here are a few articles about recent Israeli/Palestinian history, from a perspective interested more in combating racism and moving towards peaceful coexistence, rather than in promoting one particular racial/religious group.
posted by cleardawn at 7:52 AM on September 16, 2005


Fascinating stuff, Omie. Thanks.
posted by huskerdont at 8:02 AM on September 16, 2005


cleardawn: call me crazy, but I never saw appreciating a culture's uniqueness and advocating peaceful coexistence to be mutually exclusive propositions.
posted by jonmc at 8:04 AM on September 16, 2005


cleardawn: call me crazy, but I never saw appreciating a culture's uniqueness and advocating peaceful coexistence to be mutually exclusive propositions.
posted by jonmc at 11:04 AM EST on September 16 [!]


"Every man is a king, if he has someone to look down upon." - Upton Sinclair
posted by Rothko at 8:10 AM on September 16, 2005


That's fascinating, Rothko, but I fail to see how that refutes what I'm saying. I can appreciate the uniqueness of other individuals (and other cultures) because ultimately, it's in that uniqueness that our common humanity lies. To put it paradoxically.
posted by jonmc at 8:14 AM on September 16, 2005


peacay...good pre-emptive peace-keeping..
posted by tbonicus at 8:16 AM on September 16, 2005 [1 favorite]


jonmc, I don't consider you crazy. Some of your posts are a little pedestrian, but that doesn't make you insane.

In this case, I actually agree with you: appreciating the uniqueness of all cultures is a fine, healthy activity that can help in peacemaking. It's when people claim that only their own culture is unique that things tend to become a little, shall we say, unbalanced.
posted by cleardawn at 8:19 AM on September 16, 2005


But all cultures are unique.
posted by scratch at 8:23 AM on September 16, 2005


It's when people claim that only their own culture is unique that things tend to become a little, shall we say, unbalanced.

Well, that's obvious. It's like the fact that Pride is one of the Seven Deadly Sins. A certain amount of self-regard is healthy, even neccessary for the survival of an individual (and a culture), to take it to an extreme is, in an individual, narcisisstic and annoying, in a culture, ouright dangerous.


Some of your posts are a little pedestrian

I'll buy them a skateboard.
posted by jonmc at 8:23 AM on September 16, 2005 [1 favorite]


I wish it was obvious. It's obvious to you and me, good, but a whole lot of folks, in all sorts of different cultures, don't seem to get it.

BTW: Only one C in necessary, only two S's in narcisistic, and there's a T in outright.
Careful with that thing, you don't want to break your leg!

posted by cleardawn at 8:31 AM on September 16, 2005


cleardawn: I, like many MeFites, am typing my little broadsides surreptiously at work. So, as long as a comment is understandable, I cut some slack when it comes to spelling.

I wish it was obvious. It's obvious to you and me, good, but a whole lot of folks, in all sorts of different cultures, don't seem to get it.

Well, knowing it intellectually and putting it into action are two different things. And there's external factors involved as well; Germany's defeat in WWI and it's floundering Depression economy had a lot to do with the rise of The Third Reich. The fiercest Nationalism arise from places that feel defeated. As Jim Goad (of all people) put it: Tell people that they're nothing long enough and they'll eventually come back claiming to be everything.
posted by jonmc at 8:35 AM on September 16, 2005


Cleardawn
You and Jonmc got a nice little friendly Hatfield-McCoy thing going on, don't lose early trying to score points by correcting his spelling, that's traditionally reserved for last minute pre-flameout pedantic backpeddling.
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:38 AM on September 16, 2005


You and Jonmc got a nice little friendly Hatfield-McCoy thing going on,

Quit yer monkey gibberin' and git back to tendin' the still, cuzzin wino.
posted by jonmc at 8:40 AM on September 16, 2005


The writer is a very gifted person. Try reading his work instead of stupid or ignorant remarks.
If you do not like a subject, move on
Why is that when a Jew is the subject of a post, so many nutters must comment about "tired of hearing etc etc"--
in fact, the Bible of the Jews says they are "chosen." That does not mean what so many of you remark. Ask instead chosen for What? To spread the word of a monotheistic god.

The Jews are unique. So too all different groups are unique. Making a dumb remark about their uniqueness as an indication of something or other is simply another way of saying you prefer no people to be unique in any way. Are you unique? Is your heritage unique? In what way? Would you like your roots not to be unique?

go forth and sin no more
posted by Postroad at 8:43 AM on September 16, 2005


You unique people are all alike.
posted by jonmc at 8:44 AM on September 16, 2005


The way you guys are all alike is absolutely unique!

Still, I agree with Postroad: Go forth, and sin no more!
posted by cleardawn at 8:50 AM on September 16, 2005


The interview was interesting but somehow I missed the specific part where "Appelfeld talks about the importance of Israel". He talked about the soul of Israel and its challenges but I feel I missed the specific part you are referring to. I guess his point in that particular is Jews have historically been pursued all over the world and have no choice now but to stand their ground... is that a fair summary of his point of view?
posted by StarForce5 at 8:50 AM on September 16, 2005


BTW: Only one C in necessary, only two S's in narcisistic, and there's a T in outright.

Yeesh, if you're gonna be pedantic, that's 3 S's in narcissistic.
posted by onalark at 8:51 AM on September 16, 2005


Onalark, you beat me to the punch.
posted by amro at 8:56 AM on September 16, 2005


That's fascinating, Rothko, but I fail to see how that refutes what I'm saying. I can appreciate the uniqueness of other individuals (and other cultures) because ultimately, it's in that uniqueness that our common humanity lies. To put it paradoxically.
posted by jonmc at 11:14 AM EST on September 16 [!]


You're in a tiny minority, then. Isms are a pretext to rile people up, to think better of themselves at the expense of those of different nationalities, races, religions. Appreciating culture is one thing, appreciating it at another culture's expense leads to conflict, and the latter is how things work in the real world. That's all I'm saying.
posted by Rothko at 9:05 AM on September 16, 2005


only two S's in narcisistic

Well, that is correct - count them. Of course, there are 3 S's when it's spelled correctly. And there are 2 T's in outright, not one.

Please spell check your spelling correction posts in the future - or better yet, don't post them.
posted by Bort at 9:10 AM on September 16, 2005


Let's all spend a moment to appreciate the uniqueness of insignificant typos on an internet discussion and extend our capacity of peaceful coexistence to these harmless rearrangements of letters on a screen. Ommm...
posted by funambulist at 9:11 AM on September 16, 2005


When I came here, in 1946, there was a feeling of tribal unity. Even when all the Arab states attacked, there was some feeling of hope, of a future. There was a strong feeling that we were in the right. Since then we have lost our sense of justice. We lost the feeling that we are on the side of justice. We are living with some sort of perpetual sense of guilt. We did this, we didn’t do that.

"Abroad we are described as a militaristic society, lusting for land, bloodthirsty. A kind of Sparta where everyone is a soldier, everyone is a mad patriot, going down to the tank next to his house and rushing off to Nablus. But that’s not what I see around me. I don’t see Sparta. I see a refugee camp. I see immigrants. And I see that there is no caring about the collectivity, no caring about the land. Zionism’s attempt to plant roots in the ground has disappeared. True, there is fanaticism, but it’s marginal. And things are not good. Things are not good. We are not a crystallized nation in terms of our identity. We are a nation that is looking for its way, a nation that doesn’t know how to cope with its fate.


This is heartbreakingly accurate.
posted by ori at 9:13 AM on September 16, 2005


You're in a tiny minority, then.

Nah. I'm as vulnerable to the triggers of the various isms as anyone, and everyone has the capability to see common humanity in their best moments.

Appreciating culture is one thing, appreciating it at another culture's expense leads to conflict, and the latter is how things work in the real world.

Of course, politicians and activists are skilled manipulators of people's emotions, that's how they acheive power. But respecting people's common humanity is at the top of my list of ideals, so I won't give it up.
posted by jonmc at 9:13 AM on September 16, 2005


onalark, dammit, I acknowledge my erroneousness, chew the bitter dust of humble pie, and bow to your superior thangy.

On the bright side, at least I can now claim to have learned something from this thread.
posted by cleardawn at 9:13 AM on September 16, 2005


great post Omie, thanks
posted by matteo at 9:34 AM on September 16, 2005


"Cleardawn: You and Jonmc got a nice little friendly Hatfield-McCoy thing going on, don't lose early trying to score points by correcting his spelling, that's traditionally reserved for last minute pre-flameout pedantic backpeddling."

"backpedalling", actually. HTH.

(It's such a good game, I wanted to play too!)
posted by Mike D at 9:36 AM on September 16, 2005


Thanks for the links, OmieWise.
posted by safetyfork at 9:36 AM on September 16, 2005


No I meant selling backs.
posted by Divine_Wino at 9:42 AM on September 16, 2005


"No I meant selling backs."

WANTED: Really good, fast and effective product to clean semi-vapourized coffee off monitor. Apply within. And apply immediately.
posted by Mike D at 9:46 AM on September 16, 2005


To me Islam is like the Black Land of Mordor. It represents an almost faceless evil, even though its practitioners all have faces. This hateful religion opposes technology and worldly enterprise. Worse than the suffering it causes all over the world, is the potential wasted by its followers, who, as human beings, could have led wonderful lives. I don’t care if being a Muslim brings you all the contentment and self-gratification you can imagine; those who practice it are wrong to do so.


To swing it back on semi-topic (and thank Omiwise for an interesting post), that above is from the essay preceding the interview and as opposed to Mr. Appelfeld (who has some nuance going on, even if I don't totally buy what he is selling) is the kind of stupid nonsense that makes me so embarrassed to be a secular humanist sometimes. I know it's been said a million times here, but the three religions of the book are not going anywhere, there is not going to be an inverted road to Damascus moment where everybody realizes that killing in the name of God is terrible sin, so make with the embracing of the (often large and often silent) practitioners of those religions that you can live with and don't want to lop off your head, keep you in ghetto or forcibly occupy your uterus.
posted by Divine_Wino at 9:58 AM on September 16, 2005


so make with the embracing of the (often large and often silent) practitioners of those religions that you can live with

I'm just going to make fun of myself on this one, who else is now picturing a giant mute nun who shares half the rent?

I'm too hungover to doing anything but throwing pies.
posted by Divine_Wino at 10:05 AM on September 16, 2005


Divine_Wino, that was almost a really good post. Good quote (the whole "They are all evil orcs in the village over there" line is quite striking, isn't it) followed by some good analysis.

But the last sentence? Huge, silent, forcibly occupied uteri trapped in ghettos on the road to Damascus? Sorry, but, er. Maybe you could paint it? But perhaps it would be best not to...
posted by cleardawn at 10:16 AM on September 16, 2005


I don't give a drizzling shit what you think.
posted by Divine_Wino at 10:19 AM on September 16, 2005


how about a hailing shit?
posted by jonmc at 10:25 AM on September 16, 2005


For me, the post brought Celan immediately to mind. I almost FPP'd. Instead, I hope you don't mind if I take a minute to share some poetry here.

YOU WERE MY DEATH

You were my death:
you I could hold
when all fell away from me.

Paul Celan

For those of you who prefer to parse the rest of the poetry with the aid of a quick guide to the poet's core concerns, the wikipedia entry cuts to the quick in a brief section on his poetry.

More translations of Celan's poetry on the Art of Europe site:
Fugue of Death (Arguably, his most well known piece).
The Straitening
Aspen Tree
Corona
Homecoming
Flower
Tenebrae

And even more poems of Paul Celan, such as Tallow Lamp, have been translated by Michael Hamburger. (Geocities links).

Other Celan resources available online such as Paul Celan: A Bibliography of English-Language Primary and Secondary Literature, 1955-1996 and Art inspired by Celan both available from a resource previously linked to by Matteo on a related post referencing Celan.
posted by safetyfork at 10:57 AM on September 16, 2005


Thanks for the post, OmieWise. A very interesting interview to read.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 11:25 AM on September 16, 2005


The Appelfeld interview figures prominently in my favorite (and in a lot of ways, the most troubling) Roth novel, Operation Shylock (NYT review and follow up article). [Novel mentioned here, in an eerie, Rothian coincidence by mefite dobbs, which is my name. Weird weird weird.]
posted by kosem at 4:04 PM on September 17, 2005


I also thought that Appelfeld's fiction was a huge influence behind The Plot to Destroy America. The whole time I was reading it I was reminded of those of Appelfeld's books that are set in Europe prior to the Holocaust.
posted by OmieWise at 3:16 PM on September 18, 2005 [1 favorite]


Of course that's "The Plot Against America."
posted by OmieWise at 5:44 AM on September 19, 2005


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