Stop the presses!
September 17, 2005 11:24 AM Subscribe
Firms with White House ties get Katrina contracts Halliburton Co. subsidiary Kellogg Brown and Root and Bechtel have been awarded no-bid contracts in the aftermath of hurricane Katrina. There's also this.
Hold on a second, is this a street in your neighborhood? I live in the middle of a thicket and I simply don't know which street you're talking about.
posted by foot at 11:29 AM on September 17, 2005
posted by foot at 11:29 AM on September 17, 2005
Why is this allowed to happen? Where are the Democrats in all this?
posted by rolypolyman at 11:33 AM on September 17, 2005
posted by rolypolyman at 11:33 AM on September 17, 2005
I've asked this in other threads and I will ask again:
no-bid contracts generates some public grumbling, but that is all. in the States, is it illegal? are there (actual) exceptions for White House contracts, or is this just a case of people becoming accustomed to things that they would have been outraged about a decade or three ago but are no less illegal?
posted by dreamsign at 11:34 AM on September 17, 2005
no-bid contracts generates some public grumbling, but that is all. in the States, is it illegal? are there (actual) exceptions for White House contracts, or is this just a case of people becoming accustomed to things that they would have been outraged about a decade or three ago but are no less illegal?
posted by dreamsign at 11:34 AM on September 17, 2005
Personally, the only thing that surprises me about this is the total lack of interest in covering up cronyism and corruption. I mean, seriously, does anyone believe that these same groups wouldn't be winning the contracts if the semblance of bidding existed?
posted by allen.spaulding at 11:39 AM on September 17, 2005
posted by allen.spaulding at 11:39 AM on September 17, 2005
An administration that thinks "competition" will help public schools and prisons doesn't think it matters for public works?
posted by willns at 11:40 AM on September 17, 2005
posted by willns at 11:40 AM on September 17, 2005
The KBR contract (with the Navy, to repair battered Naval bases) was awarded before Katrina hit, following a competitive bid process.
Don't know about the others. The Allbaugh business bears a closer look, but it's Saturday and the weather is way too nice to stay inside and google up news about Bush cronies.
posted by notyou at 11:44 AM on September 17, 2005
Don't know about the others. The Allbaugh business bears a closer look, but it's Saturday and the weather is way too nice to stay inside and google up news about Bush cronies.
posted by notyou at 11:44 AM on September 17, 2005
when even the Onion gets, ahem, "shrill" and snarky and vitriolic, well, you know you're in trouble -- the outrage is there.
I especially liked the clause that enables the various Katrina profiteers to avoid paying a living wage to their workers, so that they can literally make a killing off of this tragedy
but then this is not nearly as bad as the activist judges removing God from the Pledege of Allegiance and persecuting Christianity. one has to know one's priorities after all
posted by matteo at 11:45 AM on September 17, 2005
I especially liked the clause that enables the various Katrina profiteers to avoid paying a living wage to their workers, so that they can literally make a killing off of this tragedy
but then this is not nearly as bad as the activist judges removing God from the Pledege of Allegiance and persecuting Christianity. one has to know one's priorities after all
posted by matteo at 11:45 AM on September 17, 2005
Seeing Opération lune aka "Dark Side of the Moon kind of brought me the chills which never left. It's, totally unrelated to this post, about the landing on the moon, but shows people in power then who still are or were for a long time after. It's clear now that it's a big happy family rubbing each others backs, but hasn't it been for decades or did they just recently master the technique?
It's a nice (hoax) docu though.
posted by stFire at 11:52 AM on September 17, 2005
It's a nice (hoax) docu though.
posted by stFire at 11:52 AM on September 17, 2005
This Halliburton... it rebuilds?
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 11:58 AM on September 17, 2005
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 11:58 AM on September 17, 2005
I'm just going to read the Onion from now on for my actual news. The time span between them joking about it and it actually happening just gets shorter and shorter.
posted by xammerboy at 12:01 PM on September 17, 2005
posted by xammerboy at 12:01 PM on September 17, 2005
Didn't see this one coming. **America smacks self in forehead**
posted by spock at 12:02 PM on September 17, 2005
posted by spock at 12:02 PM on September 17, 2005
Bush Helps Disaster Profiteers
and see my old post here: The Business of Rebuilding
posted by amberglow at 12:10 PM on September 17, 2005
and see my old post here: The Business of Rebuilding
posted by amberglow at 12:10 PM on September 17, 2005
Can someone explain why this isn't embezzlement, with Cheney still getting his pension?
posted by 517 at 12:11 PM on September 17, 2005
posted by 517 at 12:11 PM on September 17, 2005
It's good to be King.
posted by five fresh fish at 12:27 PM on September 17, 2005
posted by five fresh fish at 12:27 PM on September 17, 2005
They're not even pretending anymore, are they?
The faint whiff of satisfaction I used to have knowing I never voted for Dubya is gone.
posted by tommasz at 12:50 PM on September 17, 2005
The faint whiff of satisfaction I used to have knowing I never voted for Dubya is gone.
posted by tommasz at 12:50 PM on September 17, 2005
I like how this comes out on a Saturday, everyone one reads the Saturday paper... no, wait, that's the Sunday paper.
Thanks complicit media.
posted by 517 at 12:54 PM on September 17, 2005
Thanks complicit media.
posted by 517 at 12:54 PM on September 17, 2005
Take it to these streets (hint - Pennsylvania Avenue is involved):
United for Peace, September 24 - 26, Washington DC
Saturday, September 24:
Massive March & Rally, Peace and Justice Festival, Operation Ceasefire Concert
Sunday, September 25
Interfaith Service, Training for Grassroots Lobby Day, Training for Mass Nonviolent Civil Disobedience, National Meeting for Counter-Recruitment
Monday, September 26
Grassroots Congressional Lobby Day &
Mass Nonviolent Civil Disobedience at the White House
You simply wouldn't believe how many people you wouldn't normally expect to participate in such an event have now, fed up with everything, decided to go march on DC next weekend.
See you there.
posted by objet at 1:00 PM on September 17, 2005
United for Peace, September 24 - 26, Washington DC
Saturday, September 24:
Massive March & Rally, Peace and Justice Festival, Operation Ceasefire Concert
Sunday, September 25
Interfaith Service, Training for Grassroots Lobby Day, Training for Mass Nonviolent Civil Disobedience, National Meeting for Counter-Recruitment
Monday, September 26
Grassroots Congressional Lobby Day &
Mass Nonviolent Civil Disobedience at the White House
You simply wouldn't believe how many people you wouldn't normally expect to participate in such an event have now, fed up with everything, decided to go march on DC next weekend.
See you there.
posted by objet at 1:00 PM on September 17, 2005
I find it more disturbing that Bush plans to pay for the clean up by cutting budgets even deeper. Isn't this how they got in this mess with FEMA in the first place?
Disgusting.
posted by terrapin at 1:04 PM on September 17, 2005
Disgusting.
posted by terrapin at 1:04 PM on September 17, 2005
Why do you think they wouldn't let those carpenters and roofers stay in New Orleans, especially when they had their own food and water stores?
posted by sugarfish at 1:04 PM on September 17, 2005
posted by sugarfish at 1:04 PM on September 17, 2005
Damn, I almost wish I was American just so I could go along.
Mass Nonviolent Civil Disobedience at the White House.
Not before time, people.
posted by cleardawn at 1:08 PM on September 17, 2005
Mass Nonviolent Civil Disobedience at the White House.
Not before time, people.
posted by cleardawn at 1:08 PM on September 17, 2005
I know a guy who talked with Halliburton at a job fair. He asked them what they did and they were shocked that he'd never heard of them.
That said, I wonder if there are any companies that do this kind of work that don't have connections to the government?
What you should really be upset about is the dismissal of the prevailing wage law in the effected areas.
posted by delmoi at 1:10 PM on September 17, 2005
That said, I wonder if there are any companies that do this kind of work that don't have connections to the government?
What you should really be upset about is the dismissal of the prevailing wage law in the effected areas.
posted by delmoi at 1:10 PM on September 17, 2005
I was reading CompletlyObviousFuckingNews today and it turns out that a supermodel has admitted to taking cocaine. I am shocked. Shocked.
posted by Rothko at 1:10 PM on September 17, 2005
posted by Rothko at 1:10 PM on September 17, 2005
This came out the middle of last week. The House Committee on Government Reform has already started looking into it for mismanagment, NPR reported on Thursday morning. Not that that will amount to anything. At all.
But this is an old story already.
posted by gilgamix at 1:41 PM on September 17, 2005
But this is an old story already.
posted by gilgamix at 1:41 PM on September 17, 2005
That was the one good Onion headline this week. The others sucked. Of course, it's always that way.
posted by fungible at 1:51 PM on September 17, 2005
posted by fungible at 1:51 PM on September 17, 2005
Why don't they just open the Treasury, write themselves a check for 100 billion and leave the rest of us alone?
posted by black8 at 1:57 PM on September 17, 2005
posted by black8 at 1:57 PM on September 17, 2005
Damn you Rothko, you beat me to it. That'll teach me to stay in on a Saturday afternoon.
posted by psmealey at 2:08 PM on September 17, 2005
posted by psmealey at 2:08 PM on September 17, 2005
Why don't they just open the Treasury, write themselves a check for 100 billion and leave the rest of us alone?
Jake Gittes: I just want to know what you're worth. Over ten million?
Noah Cross: Oh my, yes.
Jake Gittes: Why are you doing it? How much better can you eat? What can you buy that you can't already afford?
Noah Cross: The future, Mr. Gitts, the future!
posted by Vervain at 2:13 PM on September 17, 2005
Jake Gittes: I just want to know what you're worth. Over ten million?
Noah Cross: Oh my, yes.
Jake Gittes: Why are you doing it? How much better can you eat? What can you buy that you can't already afford?
Noah Cross: The future, Mr. Gitts, the future!
posted by Vervain at 2:13 PM on September 17, 2005
tommasz writes "They're not even pretending anymore, are they?"
Why would they give themselves the trouble, really? they'll just wave a flag and point out that Michael Moore is fat, and the ovine masses cheer them on.
posted by clevershark at 2:38 PM on September 17, 2005
Why would they give themselves the trouble, really? they'll just wave a flag and point out that Michael Moore is fat, and the ovine masses cheer them on.
posted by clevershark at 2:38 PM on September 17, 2005
Bush is very careful with your money. He doesn't like to spend it unless he can see exactly where and who it's going to.
I was impressed with his speech, but I have so say, I think his autopilot is still stuck on self-destruct.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 2:39 PM on September 17, 2005
I was impressed with his speech, but I have so say, I think his autopilot is still stuck on self-destruct.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 2:39 PM on September 17, 2005
Say the magic word and 50% of Americans will never give a shit:
*JESUS*
See, who the fuck cares now? HAHA, I'm going to see Jesus anyway, bitches!
posted by The Jesse Helms at 3:05 PM on September 17, 2005
*JESUS*
See, who the fuck cares now? HAHA, I'm going to see Jesus anyway, bitches!
posted by The Jesse Helms at 3:05 PM on September 17, 2005
Can we suggest to the IRS that when they publish the 1040 docs at the end of the year, they include a pie chart showing the portion of the Federal Budget is going to Halliburton's top line?
posted by psmealey at 3:17 PM on September 17, 2005
posted by psmealey at 3:17 PM on September 17, 2005
Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM.
posted by BrandonAbell at 3:28 PM on September 17, 2005
posted by BrandonAbell at 3:28 PM on September 17, 2005
It was a great speech. The speechwriter hit exactly the right note; it was masterful. Now, If only he actually meant it.
posted by Miko at 3:51 PM on September 17, 2005
posted by Miko at 3:51 PM on September 17, 2005
That said, I wonder if there are any companies that do this kind of work that don't have connections to the government?
Me too. Can anyone identify companies that can do this work that would be acceptable? Does KBR get so many of these contracts because of who they know, or because of what they do?
posted by smackfu at 4:39 PM on September 17, 2005
Me too. Can anyone identify companies that can do this work that would be acceptable? Does KBR get so many of these contracts because of who they know, or because of what they do?
posted by smackfu at 4:39 PM on September 17, 2005
just look back to previous presidents and see who got rebuilding contracts etc, and whether they had a former CEO as VP.
posted by amberglow at 4:47 PM on September 17, 2005
posted by amberglow at 4:47 PM on September 17, 2005
Does KBR get so many of these contracts because of who they know, or because of what they do?
KBR is a huge company and definitely the market leader as far as large construction projects are concerned. The thing that should bother any sane person is the no-bid contract aspect of all this. They are far from the only company capable, and if we, the taxpayers are going to finance this, then the process should always be inscrutable and above-board.
posted by psmealey at 5:06 PM on September 17, 2005
KBR is a huge company and definitely the market leader as far as large construction projects are concerned. The thing that should bother any sane person is the no-bid contract aspect of all this. They are far from the only company capable, and if we, the taxpayers are going to finance this, then the process should always be inscrutable and above-board.
posted by psmealey at 5:06 PM on September 17, 2005
There are certain threads where everyone posts a .
This is a thread where everyone should post
/apologies to Fark
posted by Joeforking at 5:17 PM on September 17, 2005
This is a thread where everyone should post
/apologies to Fark
posted by Joeforking at 5:17 PM on September 17, 2005
Okay, I'm probably out of line here... but who else in the US has the resources to do the job fast and right? Shaw, Bechtel and KBR are known providers, and can do the job.
It's like the old joke about getting your car fixed. You can have the job done right, done fast, or done cheap, and you can pick any two. Right and fast isn't going to be cheap, fast and cheap ain't gonna be right. Right and cheap ain't gonna be fast.
If my house got smashed and someone said they were gonna rebuild it, I wouldn't much care if they were Dem, Repub, or FairTaxer, I'd worry about the job getting done fast and right and if they've got the credentials, then let them do the job. Since we're gonna get fucked to pay for it anyway, let's go with the folks who can do it. Unless you want to toss money at some unknown firms which may or may not get the job done...
JB
posted by JB71 at 6:55 PM on September 17, 2005
It's like the old joke about getting your car fixed. You can have the job done right, done fast, or done cheap, and you can pick any two. Right and fast isn't going to be cheap, fast and cheap ain't gonna be right. Right and cheap ain't gonna be fast.
If my house got smashed and someone said they were gonna rebuild it, I wouldn't much care if they were Dem, Repub, or FairTaxer, I'd worry about the job getting done fast and right and if they've got the credentials, then let them do the job. Since we're gonna get fucked to pay for it anyway, let's go with the folks who can do it. Unless you want to toss money at some unknown firms which may or may not get the job done...
JB
posted by JB71 at 6:55 PM on September 17, 2005
Ashland, Inc. is a company based in the Southern US that can do much of what KBR can. They are not as big but do have an international branch and work in construction and chemical transport among other things. Why can't companies like this one get some of the work?
posted by bjgeiger at 7:10 PM on September 17, 2005
posted by bjgeiger at 7:10 PM on September 17, 2005
Hmmm.
Well, my GP can do much of what the surgeon who rummaged around in my intestines did. But much isn't exactly the same thing as all... and I'd just as soon that my GP not do the sort of surgery I had without specializing in it first...
Interesting thing, apparently the head of the Louisiana Democratic Party's the Director of Shaw Group - another company that got a no-bid contract for the reconstruction.
Gee. Maybe they ARE just looking for the best folks to do the job?
J.
posted by JB71 at 7:39 PM on September 17, 2005
Well, my GP can do much of what the surgeon who rummaged around in my intestines did. But much isn't exactly the same thing as all... and I'd just as soon that my GP not do the sort of surgery I had without specializing in it first...
Interesting thing, apparently the head of the Louisiana Democratic Party's the Director of Shaw Group - another company that got a no-bid contract for the reconstruction.
Gee. Maybe they ARE just looking for the best folks to do the job?
J.
posted by JB71 at 7:39 PM on September 17, 2005
Well, goll-lee, JB, if we're gonna reduce this here mess to folksy tales, then you shore got a point I reckon. Only problem is, we're talking about 200 Billion dollars, at least. Given this, and perhaps several years of reconstruction effort staring us in the face, maybe we should try to find a reasonable, efficient, fair and cost-effective way to do this, don't you think?
Also, please stop signing your goddamned posts
posted by psmealey at 7:55 PM on September 17, 2005
Also, please stop signing your goddamned posts
posted by psmealey at 7:55 PM on September 17, 2005
JB71 writes "If my house got smashed and someone said they were gonna rebuild it, I wouldn't much care if they were Dem, Repub, or FairTaxer, I'd worry about the job getting done fast and right and if they've got the credentials, then let them do the job."
But if the contractor you thought of dealing with were awash in accusations of price gouging, bribing officials, and feeding soldiers food prepared in unsanitary conditions, why would you want him rebuilding your house?
posted by clevershark at 8:38 PM on September 17, 2005
But if the contractor you thought of dealing with were awash in accusations of price gouging, bribing officials, and feeding soldiers food prepared in unsanitary conditions, why would you want him rebuilding your house?
posted by clevershark at 8:38 PM on September 17, 2005
JB,
If my house got smashed and someone said they were gonna rebuild it, I wouldn't much care if they were Dem, Repub, or FairTaxer
Um, shouldn't that be: I wouldn't care much if they were a thief, a lieing bastard, or an ethicless moron.
posted by MoralAnimal at 8:54 PM on September 17, 2005
If my house got smashed and someone said they were gonna rebuild it, I wouldn't much care if they were Dem, Repub, or FairTaxer
Um, shouldn't that be: I wouldn't care much if they were a thief, a lieing bastard, or an ethicless moron.
posted by MoralAnimal at 8:54 PM on September 17, 2005
Yes indeed: "shutting up" is what civil disobedience is all about, Carbolic.
As you wait for us to finish conspicuously waiting for a coherent public discourse regarding justice, feel free to enjoy your own ineffectual brand of apathy.
In the meantime, perhaps you might also want to watch this debate between Christopher Hitchens and George Galloway.
I'm an unrepentant Hitchens fan, and was absolutely embarrassed for him by the time of this recorded session's end.
See you all this coming weekend in DC!
posted by objet at 10:43 PM on September 17, 2005
As you wait for us to finish conspicuously waiting for a coherent public discourse regarding justice, feel free to enjoy your own ineffectual brand of apathy.
In the meantime, perhaps you might also want to watch this debate between Christopher Hitchens and George Galloway.
I'm an unrepentant Hitchens fan, and was absolutely embarrassed for him by the time of this recorded session's end.
See you all this coming weekend in DC!
posted by objet at 10:43 PM on September 17, 2005
J.
posted by puke & cry at 11:16 PM on September 17, 2005 [1 favorite]
posted by puke & cry at 11:16 PM on September 17, 2005 [1 favorite]
My favourite part of JB71's folksy analogy was when he compared gastrointestinal surgery to rebuilding houses. Because, you know, my daddy came to visit last spring and we built a new front porch for my house, and I shore like to set a spell on that thar porch, but I wouldn't let him prescribe me medication for my heartburn, let alone make an incision in my lower abdomen. Because, you know, sometimes analogies illuminate a topic, and sometimes two things are not even remotely alike.
My least favourite part of JB71's folksy analogy was when he signed his username to it. Because that's fucking annoying.
And yes, America, you should be alarmed that billion-dollar contracts to clean up the government's messes are now routinely awarded without bids or any other kind of oversight to the company the Vice President used to run.
posted by gompa at 12:45 AM on September 18, 2005
My least favourite part of JB71's folksy analogy was when he signed his username to it. Because that's fucking annoying.
And yes, America, you should be alarmed that billion-dollar contracts to clean up the government's messes are now routinely awarded without bids or any other kind of oversight to the company the Vice President used to run.
posted by gompa at 12:45 AM on September 18, 2005
Man, ask a serious question around this place... Well, great. You're pissed because I'm daring to close my post with initials. So sorry I violated an unwritten rule here. I expect my posting athorization to be pulled for such a heinous transgression of the established norms of the local culture.
But you folks didn't exactly answer my question, going off on everything else BUT that. Only bjgeiger even bothered to address the question I asked. (Looks like Ashland's good with roads and infrastructure like that. And judging from their news releases, they're offering assistance. I wouldn't be surprised to see them taken up on it...)
Who else, in your estimations, have the resources and capability do the job?
And just for you, gompa and psmealey- how about answering the question instead of being pissed about how I sign my posts?
JB
posted by JB71 at 4:45 AM on September 18, 2005
But you folks didn't exactly answer my question, going off on everything else BUT that. Only bjgeiger even bothered to address the question I asked. (Looks like Ashland's good with roads and infrastructure like that. And judging from their news releases, they're offering assistance. I wouldn't be surprised to see them taken up on it...)
Who else, in your estimations, have the resources and capability do the job?
And just for you, gompa and psmealey- how about answering the question instead of being pissed about how I sign my posts?
JB
posted by JB71 at 4:45 AM on September 18, 2005
Who else, in your estimations, have the resources and capability do the job?
Well, there's no sliding one past you, is there, JB? You saw through my attempts to avoid the salient issue, which obviously is the fact that since the users of this multinational internet forum (which includes people like me from faraway lands like Canada whose knowledge of the American construction industry might not be all that thorough) can't come up with a list of companies capable of doing the job of rebuilding New Orleans, they must not exist.
Congressional oversight? Public accountability? Who needs 'em? There's this guy on Metafilter who seems pretty sure Halliburton's the best folks for the job. Plus, after the virtuoso performance by Bush appointees thus far in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, what cause would anyone have to question their competence or want to know a bit more about how they select the supposed "best" people for disaster-management work?
NOT JB
posted by gompa at 7:58 AM on September 18, 2005
Well, there's no sliding one past you, is there, JB? You saw through my attempts to avoid the salient issue, which obviously is the fact that since the users of this multinational internet forum (which includes people like me from faraway lands like Canada whose knowledge of the American construction industry might not be all that thorough) can't come up with a list of companies capable of doing the job of rebuilding New Orleans, they must not exist.
Congressional oversight? Public accountability? Who needs 'em? There's this guy on Metafilter who seems pretty sure Halliburton's the best folks for the job. Plus, after the virtuoso performance by Bush appointees thus far in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, what cause would anyone have to question their competence or want to know a bit more about how they select the supposed "best" people for disaster-management work?
NOT JB
posted by gompa at 7:58 AM on September 18, 2005
Who else, in your estimations, have the resources and capability do the job?
Bad faith question. 99% of Americans would not know who Halliburton was if not for their contacts. Why would you expect the tiny sample on Metafilter to be well-versed in civil engineering firms?
The fact is, and you know it is a fact, that this a nothing more than a big, fat handout. It's as plain as day.
posted by sonofsamiam at 8:27 AM on September 18, 2005
Bad faith question. 99% of Americans would not know who Halliburton was if not for their contacts. Why would you expect the tiny sample on Metafilter to be well-versed in civil engineering firms?
The fact is, and you know it is a fact, that this a nothing more than a big, fat handout. It's as plain as day.
posted by sonofsamiam at 8:27 AM on September 18, 2005
Who else, in your estimations, have the resources and capability do the job?
I have no idea which companies may or may not be capable of building temporary housing. But what bugs me is that it's a no bid contract. I'm sure that various companies in Europe and China (certainly in China) have the resources to build temporary housing, probably of far better quality than a notoriously corrupt, scandal-ridden and tax evading company like Haliburton can, but since those companies don't have the luxury of being on one side of the US government's revolving door, our tax dollars are being siphoned to a company that might not be best for the job.
posted by cmonkey at 8:43 AM on September 18, 2005
I have no idea which companies may or may not be capable of building temporary housing. But what bugs me is that it's a no bid contract. I'm sure that various companies in Europe and China (certainly in China) have the resources to build temporary housing, probably of far better quality than a notoriously corrupt, scandal-ridden and tax evading company like Haliburton can, but since those companies don't have the luxury of being on one side of the US government's revolving door, our tax dollars are being siphoned to a company that might not be best for the job.
posted by cmonkey at 8:43 AM on September 18, 2005
Until he stops, I suggest we all sign our posts.
JB
posted by five fresh fish at 11:16 AM on September 18, 2005
JB
posted by five fresh fish at 11:16 AM on September 18, 2005
BTW, the company no-bid contracted to deal with all the dead bodies... is run by a Bush crony and has a record of (a) breaking open family crypts and stuffing bodies from non-family into them; (b) disposing of bodies in the swamps, to be eaten by wild pig.
Disgusting behaviour... but they're buddies with Bush, so they get the job. Private funeral homes and the like are a little cheesed by it all.
JB
posted by five fresh fish at 11:19 AM on September 18, 2005
Disgusting behaviour... but they're buddies with Bush, so they get the job. Private funeral homes and the like are a little cheesed by it all.
JB
posted by five fresh fish at 11:19 AM on September 18, 2005
You have a link for that no-bid contract, five fresh fish?
posted by wsg at 11:42 AM on September 18, 2005
posted by wsg at 11:42 AM on September 18, 2005
Here you go, wsg (there's more all over on SCI and Kenyon and the scandals and the enormous settlement they had to make)
posted by amberglow at 12:50 PM on September 18, 2005
posted by amberglow at 12:50 PM on September 18, 2005
Here, WSG. It's pretty sordid. I am a little shocked that the company continues to exist; if there were e'er a candidate for the corporate death penalty...
JB
posted by five fresh fish at 2:32 PM on September 18, 2005
JB
posted by five fresh fish at 2:32 PM on September 18, 2005
Sonofsamiam -
Bad faith question. 99% of Americans would not know who Halliburton was if not for their contacts. Why would you expect the tiny sample on Metafilter to be well-versed in civil engineering firms?
I don't intend it as a bad-faith question. They're obviously well enough versed to hold the opinion that KBR/Shaw and the like SHOULDN'T do it - so it would seem to me they'd have some opinions as to who they'd replace them with. Great. Say they're out. Who's gonna do the job? Who CAN do the job? Unless this is just a Metafilter standard bitch session about Haliburton et al. with no real worries about the reality of whether the job gets done or not, I'd think it worth knowing what the alternatives are.
Oh, Gompa? And Five Fresh Fish?
J.
B.
Have a nice day. ;)
posted by JB71 at 3:39 PM on September 18, 2005
Bad faith question. 99% of Americans would not know who Halliburton was if not for their contacts. Why would you expect the tiny sample on Metafilter to be well-versed in civil engineering firms?
I don't intend it as a bad-faith question. They're obviously well enough versed to hold the opinion that KBR/Shaw and the like SHOULDN'T do it - so it would seem to me they'd have some opinions as to who they'd replace them with. Great. Say they're out. Who's gonna do the job? Who CAN do the job? Unless this is just a Metafilter standard bitch session about Haliburton et al. with no real worries about the reality of whether the job gets done or not, I'd think it worth knowing what the alternatives are.
Oh, Gompa? And Five Fresh Fish?
J.
B.
Have a nice day. ;)
posted by JB71 at 3:39 PM on September 18, 2005
They're obviously well enough versed to hold the opinion that KBR/Shaw and the like SHOULDN'T do it - so it would seem to me they'd have some opinions as to who they'd replace them with. Great. Say they're out. Who's gonna do the job? Who CAN do the job?
Some people think that an open bidding process for government contracts allows the best qualified firms to display their strengths and fairly win contracts. Instead of asking, "Who do I know who can do this job?" one produces an RFP and lets firms compete for the contract.
The people who believe this are either fools or Communists, obviously.
JB
posted by Ptrin at 3:50 PM on September 18, 2005
Some people think that an open bidding process for government contracts allows the best qualified firms to display their strengths and fairly win contracts. Instead of asking, "Who do I know who can do this job?" one produces an RFP and lets firms compete for the contract.
The people who believe this are either fools or Communists, obviously.
JB
posted by Ptrin at 3:50 PM on September 18, 2005
Who's gonna do the job? Who CAN do the job?
Perhaps some sort of bidding and review process could help figure that out?
JB
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 3:57 PM on September 18, 2005
Perhaps some sort of bidding and review process could help figure that out?
JB
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 3:57 PM on September 18, 2005
(waited too long to post that, since Ptrin already nailed it. Never mind.
JB)
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 3:58 PM on September 18, 2005
JB)
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 3:58 PM on September 18, 2005
CMonkey:
If overseas companies were brought in, you'd really see folks screaming. As far as who can do the best job - that's just what I'm asking here.
Oddly enough, we went to an RV show today - and I overheard one salesman say that they expect their inventories are going to be pretty tight for a year or more since FEMA's buying a LOT of the things in the 15-30K range. Take it for what it's worth - overheard from a salesman. (Oh, damn. Another folksy tale. I'm sure Gompa will be offended. My life is shattered.)
BTW, Gompa? I'm asking because I really and sincerely want to know. You're the one that took this off on a tangent, all offended because of my 'folksy analogy' and my daring to sign my posts. I don't know who else can even attempt the job, and I figured someone here would. I don't figure they don't exist (thank you very much for reading something into my posts that I wasn't aware of even thinking about) and I figure that someone here would have some sort of idea.
And, Gompa, ONLY because you and psmealey (and now five fresh fish) raised such a stink about it - on this thread I'll CONTINUE to sign my posts. Simply because you couldn't bother to go, maybe, "Hey, man, we don't sign our posts around here. A word to the wise, 'k?". No, you had to be fucking annoyed about it and post about how pissed off you were that I dared do such a horribly offensive thing. So, since you let me know it was a faux pas in this place, I won't do it elsewhere.
Just here. Just for you guys. Because it annnoys you.
JB
posted by JB71 at 4:03 PM on September 18, 2005
If overseas companies were brought in, you'd really see folks screaming. As far as who can do the best job - that's just what I'm asking here.
Oddly enough, we went to an RV show today - and I overheard one salesman say that they expect their inventories are going to be pretty tight for a year or more since FEMA's buying a LOT of the things in the 15-30K range. Take it for what it's worth - overheard from a salesman. (Oh, damn. Another folksy tale. I'm sure Gompa will be offended. My life is shattered.)
BTW, Gompa? I'm asking because I really and sincerely want to know. You're the one that took this off on a tangent, all offended because of my 'folksy analogy' and my daring to sign my posts. I don't know who else can even attempt the job, and I figured someone here would. I don't figure they don't exist (thank you very much for reading something into my posts that I wasn't aware of even thinking about) and I figure that someone here would have some sort of idea.
And, Gompa, ONLY because you and psmealey (and now five fresh fish) raised such a stink about it - on this thread I'll CONTINUE to sign my posts. Simply because you couldn't bother to go, maybe, "Hey, man, we don't sign our posts around here. A word to the wise, 'k?". No, you had to be fucking annoyed about it and post about how pissed off you were that I dared do such a horribly offensive thing. So, since you let me know it was a faux pas in this place, I won't do it elsewhere.
Just here. Just for you guys. Because it annnoys you.
JB
posted by JB71 at 4:03 PM on September 18, 2005
Pitrin, PinkStainlessTail...
Thanks for the input! I appreciate it.
The only thing I'd be concerned about in that case is how long the government would drag things out in the RFP process. Having worked for a company that did comp support for the CDC, when the 5-year contract renewal came up and we didn't get it, the company filed an appeal which took a further 6 months.
They'd really have to accelerate the process.
JB
posted by JB71 at 4:08 PM on September 18, 2005
Thanks for the input! I appreciate it.
The only thing I'd be concerned about in that case is how long the government would drag things out in the RFP process. Having worked for a company that did comp support for the CDC, when the 5-year contract renewal came up and we didn't get it, the company filed an appeal which took a further 6 months.
They'd really have to accelerate the process.
JB
posted by JB71 at 4:08 PM on September 18, 2005
JB71: Please don't sign your posts. You'll make gompa, psmealey, and five fresh fish angry, and you wouldn't like them when they're angry.
on preview: damn.
posted by Sparx at 5:31 PM on September 18, 2005
on preview: damn.
posted by Sparx at 5:31 PM on September 18, 2005
They'd really have to accelerate the process.
Fair point, but isn't there some distance between the full bureaucratic bid submission process and no bidding at all?
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 5:38 PM on September 18, 2005
Fair point, but isn't there some distance between the full bureaucratic bid submission process and no bidding at all?
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 5:38 PM on September 18, 2005
Just here. Just for you guys. Because it annnoys you.
JB
Dearest JB:
Your signature has been subverted for the purposes of entertaining the easily-amused. Seeing the initials "JB" following a post is now short-hand for "we're the cool kids, making fun of a silly prat."
Please be informed that stating your intent to use your initials to raise the ire of Goompa and psmealey is particularly fruitless now that you have been openly and repeatedly mocked.
Your continued use of a signature will constitute an infringement against the good common sense to recognize an unwinnable pissing match, and shall be considered as a strong and reliable indicator that you lack the wit or wisdom to know when to cut your losses. Subsequent interactions with you, in other threads, may be influenced by this knowledge, to the detriment of your attempts to communicate your ideas or opinions.
Kindest regards,
JB
jb/fff
posted by five fresh fish at 5:51 PM on September 18, 2005
JB
Dearest JB:
Your signature has been subverted for the purposes of entertaining the easily-amused. Seeing the initials "JB" following a post is now short-hand for "we're the cool kids, making fun of a silly prat."
Please be informed that stating your intent to use your initials to raise the ire of Goompa and psmealey is particularly fruitless now that you have been openly and repeatedly mocked.
Your continued use of a signature will constitute an infringement against the good common sense to recognize an unwinnable pissing match, and shall be considered as a strong and reliable indicator that you lack the wit or wisdom to know when to cut your losses. Subsequent interactions with you, in other threads, may be influenced by this knowledge, to the detriment of your attempts to communicate your ideas or opinions.
Kindest regards,
JB
jb/fff
posted by five fresh fish at 5:51 PM on September 18, 2005
Sparx:
Thanks for the warning. It's always nice to see tolerant, well-meaning folk give quiet advice when someone does something foolish, as opposed to folks who just like behaving like intolerant assholes with little provocation. If they hadn't started out like that, or you'd warned me earlier, I'd have desisted. But hey, it was their choice. I don't control their keyboards.
PinkStainlessTail -
There's a lot less of a difference than you might think between the two. From what I've seen over the years, government procurement regulations are designed to be pretty stringent and rather binary. Either you've got circumstances which allow you to bypass them, (In which case the auditors and accountants would be all over your ass later) or you don't. If you don't, then there's little to no need to expedite things and you have to do the full process. It's hard to sidestep, and darn near impossible to hurry. Thanks to the layers of bureaucrats and volumes of procurement regulations, that's what it's developed into.
Five Fresh Fish...
Oh, my. I didn't realize you were the 'cool kids'. Gee. I don't want to get on your bad side, do I? Damn. What is this, high school? Cliques? 'cool kids'? I thought the majority of folks posting here were adults, actually interested in exchanging ideas an information instead of playing silly status games.
Mocked? Mocked? Um, hate to tell you this, but oddly enough I don't feel mocked - instead, I feel complimented that someone would actually pay enough attention to put my initials at the bottom of their post. I figure if this spreads to other threads here, then folks might question it, and track it back, and you'll be seen for the fool - not me.
A pissing match? Heh.
JB/JB
posted by JB71 at 7:11 PM on September 18, 2005
Thanks for the warning. It's always nice to see tolerant, well-meaning folk give quiet advice when someone does something foolish, as opposed to folks who just like behaving like intolerant assholes with little provocation. If they hadn't started out like that, or you'd warned me earlier, I'd have desisted. But hey, it was their choice. I don't control their keyboards.
PinkStainlessTail -
There's a lot less of a difference than you might think between the two. From what I've seen over the years, government procurement regulations are designed to be pretty stringent and rather binary. Either you've got circumstances which allow you to bypass them, (In which case the auditors and accountants would be all over your ass later) or you don't. If you don't, then there's little to no need to expedite things and you have to do the full process. It's hard to sidestep, and darn near impossible to hurry. Thanks to the layers of bureaucrats and volumes of procurement regulations, that's what it's developed into.
Five Fresh Fish...
Oh, my. I didn't realize you were the 'cool kids'. Gee. I don't want to get on your bad side, do I? Damn. What is this, high school? Cliques? 'cool kids'? I thought the majority of folks posting here were adults, actually interested in exchanging ideas an information instead of playing silly status games.
Mocked? Mocked? Um, hate to tell you this, but oddly enough I don't feel mocked - instead, I feel complimented that someone would actually pay enough attention to put my initials at the bottom of their post. I figure if this spreads to other threads here, then folks might question it, and track it back, and you'll be seen for the fool - not me.
A pissing match? Heh.
JB/JB
posted by JB71 at 7:11 PM on September 18, 2005
They're not even pretending anymore, are they?
actually, i don't think they ever pretended. they don't care what people thing as they have always done what they pleased. 'they' being Dubya/Tricky Dicky/Rummie, and of course, Karlie.
posted by TrinityB5 at 3:24 PM on September 19, 2005
actually, i don't think they ever pretended. they don't care what people thing as they have always done what they pleased. 'they' being Dubya/Tricky Dicky/Rummie, and of course, Karlie.
posted by TrinityB5 at 3:24 PM on September 19, 2005
Sweet zombie jesus, JB, you are quite the show! The "cool kids" comment was obvious mockery of MeFi's (or, more accurately, MeTa's) peer pressure system of encouraging conformance.
And if you don't mind me saying so, my "Dear JB" message is a great bit of foolishness. I sure as hell hope people track things back to it. One of the better semi-friendly spankings I've written, in my opinion, and I would be deeply disappointed if I didn't succeed in making someone spew their coffee.
Quit taking yourself so seriously. "Feeling complimented" indeed!
posted by five fresh fish at 4:50 PM on September 19, 2005
And if you don't mind me saying so, my "Dear JB" message is a great bit of foolishness. I sure as hell hope people track things back to it. One of the better semi-friendly spankings I've written, in my opinion, and I would be deeply disappointed if I didn't succeed in making someone spew their coffee.
Quit taking yourself so seriously. "Feeling complimented" indeed!
posted by five fresh fish at 4:50 PM on September 19, 2005
Sweet zombie jesus, JB, you are quite the show! The "cool kids" comment was obvious mockery of MeFi's (or, more accurately, MeTa's) peer pressure system of encouraging conformance.
Oh, the peer pressure system you were apparently trying to encourage? Gee. I guess I'm just rather oblivious to such obvious mockery as your first post about this. Missed the sarcasm/mockery tag completely. My bad. /mock
Better be careful, though. You mock the sacred customs of MeTa at your own peril. Your 'coolness' depends on your conformity - in thought as well as custom.
JB
posted by JB71 at 6:41 PM on September 19, 2005
Oh, the peer pressure system you were apparently trying to encourage? Gee. I guess I'm just rather oblivious to such obvious mockery as your first post about this. Missed the sarcasm/mockery tag completely. My bad. /mock
Better be careful, though. You mock the sacred customs of MeTa at your own peril. Your 'coolness' depends on your conformity - in thought as well as custom.
JB
posted by JB71 at 6:41 PM on September 19, 2005
I get it. "JB" is the Bourne identity.
- terrapin
posted by terrapin at 8:36 AM on September 20, 2005
- terrapin
posted by terrapin at 8:36 AM on September 20, 2005
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take it to the streets people!
posted by stevejensen at 11:26 AM on September 17, 2005